No macros, mouse tweaks etc.

[ubermenchen]

No macro's that effect combat , mouse tweeks or anything else outside what you give us to use in the game.

[Sirisian]

Those are impossible to stop. Some people have them programmed into their mice. You're just going to have to deal with it. Ideally the game shouldn't force you to break your mouse button firing a pistol which is pretty common in some games.

[SKYeXile]

i thought you were going to say flails.

[Mirror]

i thought you were going to say flails.

:rofl:

[HitbackTR]

Does this include me macro spamming your corpse after I kill you multiple times as this will affect your combat in a negative for you yet funny/positive for me kind of way?

[Conq]

One of my favorite parts of starting a new game is setting up macros, scripting autohotkey has become something of a hobby for me and I'd hate to see it blocked.

I don't consider anything I do with it game breaking, it's just a matter of customization. Creating a crouch toggle, a sprint toggle that pauses when you zoom/fire, an auto-fire for pump shotguns, an auto-reload for spray weapons, ect.

[FastAndFree]

can we not have...
No macro's that effect combat

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSvk8RmvOTBfM4cX57-m4Cl-xUdKeYh1vj_3aKhzpwNxDae3gQu

Jokes aside, as Sirisian said they can't really be stopped, except making them unnecessary with good design

[IronMole]

One of my favorite parts of starting a new game is setting up macros, scripting autohotkey has become something of a hobby for me and I'd hate to see it blocked.

I don't consider anything I do with it game breaking, it's just a matter of customization. Creating a crouch toggle, a sprint toggle that pauses when you zoom/fire, an auto-fire for pump shotguns, an auto-reload for spray weapons, ect.

All which are available in most modern games by default?

There's no reason to be using macros in an FPS game, although they're impossible to prevent they should be banned if caught.

[basti]

What the fuck are you guys talking about?

[IronMole]

What the fuck are you guys talking about?

3rd party apps such as Autohotkey?

[NewSith]

3rd party apps such as Autohotkey?

You know =P

[basti]

3rd party apps such as Autohotkey?

In an FPS?

Ze fuck?

[IronMole]

In an FPS?

Ze fuck?

seriousornot?.jpg

:confused:

[basti]

seriousornot?.jpg

:confused:

I mean, whats the point? What exactly could macros do for you in an FPS?

[Coreldan]

Maximizing rate of fire on semi-auto weapons.

Perhaps.. macro voice macros? :D

[IronMole]

I mean, whats the point? What exactly could macros do for you in an FPS?

In most modern games, they are pointless and not needed. Although they are/were used in many FPS games most have been rectified.

Planetside you could set up strafe macros to induce warp, etc.

CoD you use to be able to set up scroll firing using the mouse wheels.

As a person posted above, "pump action shotgun to auto fire".

[basti]

Maximizing rate of fire on semi-auto weapons.

Perhaps.. macro voice macros? :D

While the Macro voice macros are something ive done myself (g15), maximising the firerate on a semi auto is a BAD idea to do. No one does that, unless the game doesnt have any kind of COF or recoil.

Really there is nothing a macro can do for you in a FPS.

[Tasorin]

Prime example is the Gauss Rifle.

I set a macro up that when I push button 6 on my mouse it enables a .1 second delay repeated tap on my left mouse button. If I want to stop firing all I have to do is retap mouse button 6.

Now I don't have to bust my already busted fingers from 30 years of gaming trying to keep the spray down on the Gauss by mashing the left mouse button as quick as I can. This as well gives the Gauss the effect of being an automatic weapon with little to no cone of fire due to recoil and keeps as many rounds on target as I can.

A solid G-series style keyboard and a good high dpi multi-button gaming mouse are your friend in a FPS.

[Hamma]

Renamed thread.

[Trolltaxi]

I'm with basti in this, what's the point? If you use 3rd party tools (even if it's your mouse driver) to maximize fire rate or anything, you're a cheater.

If you have a 20 button MMORPG-mouse and you use all 20 buttons with your fingers it's ok. There is human involved.

[Conq]

All which are available in most modern games by default?

No, not really. The last mmofps I really enjoyed was APB and it was severely deficient in basic key binds. In fact, I'll use APB as a good example.

Back in the day, you couldn't shoot while sprinting. You had to let go of sprint, wait 500ms, fire and wait 500ms before starting sprint again. I found that pretty frustrating with a pump shotgun because it left me as a sitting duck between shots. What I did was set up an auto sprint macro that dropped me out of sprint for the precise amount of time need to fire, fire and then reengaged sprint. It allowed me to sprint between shells which was a huge boon.

Nowadays, APB lets you do that automatically and the macro isn't needed. Sometimes games just don't have what you need (yet) and you have to build it yourself. Yes, even simple things like a crouch toggle sometimes.

[CutterJohn]

Really there is nothing a macro can do for you in a FPS.

You never saw my dolphin diving macro for battlefield 2. :rofl:

[Death2All]

This sort of falls more into the developers hands...Ensuring they put a cap on the fire rate of weapons instead of givng the player the opportunity to fire the weapon that fast, it should have a set RoF that no matter how fast the trigger is pulled, it will not surpass that speed.

[RadarX]

This sort of falls more into the developers hands...Ensuring they put a cap on the fire rate of weapons instead of givng the player the opportunity to fire the weapon that fast, it should have a set RoF that no matter how fast the trigger is pulled, it will not surpass that speed.

Fortunately SOE has extensive experience dealing with people who use exploits or third party software to cheat. I'm positive things like this are considered.

[Smokingrabbit]

this has never botherd me. So long as you dont break the rules of the game you arnt cheating. Hardware has allways been an advantage in PC gaming. If the devs dont want it it is very easy for them to program the game so that rapid fire macros are a non issue.

[Marth Koopa]

Bunny Hopping in Team Fortress Classic. Nobody with their sanity in tact would manually press the jump button perfectly on landing, every pro had a script to spam the jump button for maximum bunny hopping efficiency.

[Smokingrabbit]

Bunny Hopping in Team Fortress Classic. Nobody with their sanity in tact would manually press the jump button perfectly on landing, every pro had a script to spam the jump button for maximum bunny hopping efficiency.

easy fix - remove the viability of the bunny hop

[Coreldan]

This sort of falls more into the developers hands...Ensuring they put a cap on the fire rate of weapons instead of givng the player the opportunity to fire the weapon that fast, it should have a set RoF that no matter how fast the trigger is pulled, it will not surpass that speed.

But still, macros will always be more efficient than human hand due to the lack of human error. The macro can always shoot the semi autos at the maximum RoF, while human will always have some inconsistancy in it.

Doesnt sound like much, but it's actually a fairly big problem in APB atm. Theres this one semi auto primary that can't really be nerfed cos then it would be worthless to legit users, but it's too good when people use macros to use the highest possible RoF.

[FIREk]

(snip)

Drat, you beat me to it. So the Obeya is still borked, huh?

[Rumblepit]

But still, macros will always be more efficient than human hand due to the lack of human error. The macro can always shoot the semi autos at the maximum RoF, while human will always have some inconsistancy in it.

Doesnt sound like much, but it's actually a fairly big problem in APB atm. Theres this one semi auto primary that can't really be nerfed cos then it would be worthless to legit users, but it's too good when people use macros to use the highest possible RoF.

i cant wait to see people try to use shooting macros in a game that is cof and recoil. cant wait!!!! ill be the one shooting you in the face while your shooting at the sky.:rofl:

they work fine for cof games. but theres is no macro to control recoil.

[Trolltaxi]

But still, macros will always be more efficient than human hand due to the lack of human error. The macro can always shoot the semi autos at the maximum RoF, while human will always have some inconsistancy in it.

Doesnt sound like much, but it's actually a fairly big problem in APB atm. Theres this one semi auto primary that can't really be nerfed cos then it would be worthless to legit users, but it's too good when people use macros to use the highest possible RoF.

Just because you can do, doesn't mean you should do it.

[Coreldan]

Just because you can do, doesn't mean you should do it.

Well, I main that said weapon in APB and I've always used it manually! :D

[Trolltaxi]

Well, I main that said weapon in APB and I've always used it manually! :D

OK, I see...

Consider it addressed to all whom it may concern... :)

[GTGD]

I saw someone testing their new ADADADADAD and ROF-breaking MCG script the other day and bragging about it in local chat while TKing greenies. The sad part is that they think they're pro after tweaking a macro in an 8 year old game.

[Hamma]

:lol:

[LZachariah]

You can't prevent the inclusion of technology that allows a player to program macros and thread-commands into the physical interface devices (mice, keyboard, joysticks, etc).

This is part of the arms race that will always be present. Aimbots are forbidden, CyborgGaming Mice are permitted.

~Zachariah

[morf]

I have a quickscope macro for CoD. It scopes, delays, and fires as soon as the crosshairs are up. I've also got a dot stuck to the center of my monitor so I can line it up with your head. I own tons of people with it. I don't see a problem. Everyone has control over their own setup.

[Crator]

^^^ The problem is it's not meant to be played like that... You're supposed to use your skill, not the skill of a program. Might as well add that in as a legit mod so everyone could use it if that is the case.

[morf]

Might as well add that in as a legit mod so everyone could use it if that is the case.

Everyone can use it. Like I said, everyone has control over their own setup. What's the difference between this and a joystick for flying a plane?

[Crator]

One is hardware, the other software. If the game developer wants to add the functionality in to the game then they will give the option with their approved software.

Not much you can do about hardware unless you only allow particular hardware to be used.

[Trolltaxi]

I wonder how hard people try to reason why they cheat...

"Everyone does it..."; "...you have control on your hardware..."; "...real pros do it like this..."

OMG! Do you really fail to see how much you ... fail?!

[morf]

One is hardware, the other software.

Actually both are programmable hardware. I setup my mouse to send a series of keystrokes when I press a button. The analog joystick sends pulses of keystrokes when you bank left or right. There's no way for you to "halfway" depress your left key on your keyboard. The joystick simulates this by on and off sending the keystroke dozens of times per second depending on how hard you're banking. It's exactly the same thing, applied in two different ways.

As long as a player is in control, and everyone else can do the same thing, what's the problem?

[SuperMorto]

What the fuck are you guys talking about?

I've love this shit Basti! pissing myself!

[morf]

Do you really fail to see how much you ... fail?!

I don't fail. On the contrary, I win. The real failures are the people who sit back and blame things like opponents' hardware setups for their own inability to play well. This is just the latest witchhunt from inept players on this forum. Other classics include: headshots, quickknife, "mouth-breathing twitchers", bunny hopping and most recently, kill-cams.

[SuperMorto]

^^^ The problem is it's not meant to be played like that... You're supposed to use your skill, not the skill of a program. Might as well add that in as a legit mod so everyone could use it if that is the case.

but on the flip side, you are not bound by law or rules, and you can use any means you want that is none detectable. And people will, its how you police it that matters. If everybody says no to it then the game will be clean, if we just let it all unfold and do nothing the game will be broken very fast. Stick together as one community/one game, and be a bigger force than the cheaters, it is in fact the only way, and you all know it.

[Graywolves]

If you set things up to occur automatically then yeah you're cheating.

[morf]

If you set things up to occur automatically then yeah you're cheating.

I would have to agree. Thankfully everything I do is initiated by a keystroke so it's not automatic. Cheating is modifying the game client to do things that aren't possible by user input. Optimizing user input via hardware options is not cheating.

[Crator]

Technically, it's still cheating if you optimize your hardware, but not easy to detect the cheat so it goes undetected.

[Graywolves]

Technically, it's still cheating if you optimize your hardware, but not easy to detect the cheat so it goes undetected.

It's like filling your boxing gloves with lead. Or something.

[morf]

Technically, it's still cheating if you optimize your hardware, but not easy to detect the cheat so it goes undetected.

So I'm going to pose the same question you failed to answer before: what's the difference between a mouse button that I've set up to send several keystrokes that I would normally send anyway vs. a joystick that you program to send dozens of keystokes per second to simulate a "partial keypress" ??

Furthermore, what happens between me and my computer is between me and my computer, what happens between my computer and the game client is the only thing anyone else needs to worry about. That's my position. I recognize that others are entitled to their own opinions, no matter how wrong they are. Don't tell me how to use my computer and I won't tell you how to use yours.

[Crator]

<shrug> idk, guess you have a point... I use a nice Logitech mouse with button that allow me to change the DPI on the fly. Guess that's cheating too kind of. But, in the end, I suppose the better hardware you have the better you will be able to interface with the game. So in a way you are right.

[morf]

<shrug> idk, guess you have a point... I use a nice Logitech mouse with button that allow me to change the DPI on the fly.

You big fat cheater :lol:

[Trolltaxi]

Actually both are programmable hardware. I setup my mouse to send a series of keystrokes when I press a button. The analog joystick sends pulses of keystrokes when you bank left or right. There's no way for you to "halfway" depress your left key on your keyboard. The joystick simulates this by on and off sending the keystroke dozens of times per second depending on how hard you're banking. It's exactly the same thing, applied in two different ways.

As long as a player is in control, and everyone else can do the same thing, what's the problem?

No sir, you are wrong with the analog joystick. You're speaking about the '80s controllers - those were "digital". Therefore your whole analogy with the joy is failed. (learn: http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/joystick3.htm ) Now I hope you see the problem.

And the final argument! Real men just don't use macros!

[morf]

No sir, you are wrong with the analog joystick. You're speaking about the '80s controllers - those were "digital". Therefore your whole analogy with the joy is failed. (learn: http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/joystick3.htm ) Now I hope you see the problem.

And the final argument! Real men just don't use macros!

My joystick sends keystrokes. Sorry I don't have time to pick through that article, can you sum up exactly how the game client understands input from a programmable joystick that doesn't send keystrokes? How does it read the sensitivity settings that you programmed into the joystick?

[Crator]

It's still cheating by definition even if you just use hardware: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheating_in_online_games

Just not much the game devs can do about that.

[Trolltaxi]

My joystick sends keystrokes. Sorry I don't have time to pick through that article, can you sum up exactly how the game client understands input from a programmable joystick that doesn't send keystrokes? How does it read the sensitivity settings that you programmed into the joystick?

"to determine the location of the stick, the joystick control system simply monitors the position of each shaft. The conventional analog joystick design does this with two potentiometers, or variable resistors." I hope you can imagine the rest...

You lazy ... meh...

[morf]

"to determine the location of the stick, the joystick control system simply monitors the position of each shaft. The conventional analog joystick design does this with two potentiometers, or variable resistors." I hope you can imagine the rest...

You lazy ... meh...

That's absolutely wonderful trivia, bro. But my question was: how does the game client interpret the input from the joystick?

[morf]

It's still cheating by definition even if you just use hardware: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheating_in_online_games

Just not much the game devs can do about that.

You know for the purposes of this argument, I don't really care much about whatever opinion is being expressed on the free encyclopedia that anyone can edit. But if it's that big of a deal to you, I'll be happy to edit it. :groovy:

[Crator]

Ok, I'm done talking to you then. Hate that weak ass argument about wikipedia... Stupid...

[morf]

Ok, I'm done talking to you then. Hate that weak ass argument about wikipedia... Stupid...

It's a subjective opinion that literally anyone can edit. Most academics would agree with me on this one. At any rate, I scanned the article, and noticed it didn't seem to mention anything about hardware macros (although it did mention scripting) - but at the very top it mentions that what constitutes cheating is game specific and subject to opinion.

Furthermore, you and your buddy never got back to me on the joystick argument, but whether you're right or wrong, I'm still correct. If the joystick does cause your computer to send ordinary keystrokes to the game client, as i posited, you already agreed that it provides the same advantage as a mouse macro. On the other hand, if the joystick somehow sends specialized keystrokes that are even better than those produced by an ordinary keyboard, then it's providing EVEN MORE of an advantage than my mouse macro, because this task cannot be replicated with an ordinary keyboard. In that case, I want to thank you guys for making my point even stronger.

So in summary:
No matter what, I'm right. And even if you're right it makes me even more right. Right?

Alright.

[Graywolves]

-delete-

[morf]

-delete-

cuz all the cool kids are doing it.

[Trolltaxi]

That's absolutely wonderful trivia, bro. But my question was: how does the game client interpret the input from the joystick?

First. As everyone with a little sane mind left can see, that joysticks don't send keystrokes anymore. That was in the '80s.

Ok, every analoge signal is converted to digital at the end, that's how computers work. But a mice with a macro is a digital input device, while an analoge stick still sends analoge signals. That's the difference. It's not about how it's interpreted, it is how you "send" your signals.

And it's over for me, I won't argue with you till you prove to be able to read and understand what you are told.

[Effective]

What in the world is this thread even about?

[Graywolves]

What in the world is this thread even about?

How people cut corners and script things to happen automatically for them so they don't need to actually execute things themself.


Like if you were in an MMORPG you could make 6 buttons become 1 button.

Or to automatically ADADADAD strafe instead of doing it yourself.



Because developing skill to be consistent is too hard for people.

[Effective]

How people cut corners and script things to happen automatically for them so they don't need to actually execute things themself.


Like if you were in an MMORPG you could make 6 buttons become 1 button.

Or to automatically ADADADAD strafe instead of doing it yourself.



Because developing skill to be consistent is too hard for people.

There's very limited things you can do in an FPS with macros. Depends on the quirks of the game (like making the AWP fire faster in competitive CS faster by switching weapons quickly). You'll never be able to stop it, or prove someone is using a macro for it. Though you can assume.

Not to mention, things like ADADAD, it's actually really easy to do, so it's really easy to be accused of being a macro strafer, even when you're not (not even including the fact macro ADAD users are EASY to kill).

There's always going to be a difference between cheaters and exploiters in my opinion, regardless of what anyone thinks.

[Traak]

Fortunately SOE has extensive experience dealing with people who use exploits or third party software to cheat. I'm positive things like this are considered.

This is a joke, right? Because it sure rang the irony bell!

[Fenrys]

Macros and 3rd party apps aren't totally useless or necessarily cheating.

For example, Planetside doesn't recognize my mouse's 4th-10th buttons, so I use the mouse driver to set those buttons to send keystrokes for the actions I want them bound to (med packs and implants), but I could just as easily use AutoHotkey to accomplish the same. Also, using a mouse with adjustable DPI via mouse buttons gives an advantage when switching between MAX and softy loadouts, and that advantage can be optimized with a mouse driver that lets you set custom stop points on the DPI gradient (I use 400 softy, 800 MAX and tank turrets, 2000 running MAX).

I'd be sad if mice with more than 3 buttons, or however many they plan to support w/ the in-game config, were banned from PS2. AutoHotkey is just pushing buttons, so I would also be sad if using a keyboard well was banned from PS2.

If all you are doing is interacting with the game using the tools the developers have provided (keybindings), I don't count it as cheating.

Cheating is modifying the game client to do things that aren't possible by user input. Optimizing user input via hardware options is not cheating.

Yep.

[Azren]

Fortunately SOE has extensive experience dealing with people who use exploits or third party software to cheat. I'm positive things like this are considered.

This just made my day :rofl:

Sorry, but while you might think you know how to handle cheaters, the number of them in PS shows otherwise. I assume 50% of the players run hacks, which seeing how easy it is to hack in PS should be about accurate. Or maybe you just let them hack to recive their monthly subs too?

[Effective]

Usable exploits for an FPS

One exploit is to find a weapon you want to work on, write down it's ammunition count. Lets say it's 30 bullets, set up a script so that if you fire 29 bullets or less (5.30 seconds of summed time holding left click down) and you stroke your reload key, it restarts the script
If you DON'T hit the reload button at 30 rounds(5.31 seconds of summed time holding left click) , your weapon is automatically switched to your secondary, you throw a grenade and quick knife all at once, and you can choose which order to do it in.

You could also do a dolphin dive macro which i've seen, and man that PISSES me off... in bf3 it's not abused much if at all, but in cod and bf2, holy SHIT people abused it.

There are many many exploits you can use with autokey, i personally hope they ban people who use it.

If someone is willing to go through the effort let them. Doesn't affect me or my gameplay. I'll still beat them into the floor.

[Effective]

Usable exploits for an FPS

One exploit is to find a weapon you want to work on, write down it's ammunition count. Lets say it's 30 bullets, set up a script so that if you fire 29 bullets or less (5.30 seconds of summed time holding left click down) and you stroke your reload key, it restarts the script
If you DON'T hit the reload button at 30 rounds(5.31 seconds of summed time holding left click) , your weapon is automatically switched to your secondary, you throw a grenade and quick knife all at once, and you can choose which order to do it in.

You could also do a dolphin dive macro which i've seen, and man that PISSES me off... in bf3 it's not abused much if at all, but in cod and bf2, holy SHIT people abused it.

There are many many exploits you can use with autokey, i personally hope they ban people who use it.

If someone is willing to go through the effort let them. Doesn't affect me or my gameplay. I'll still beat them into the floor.

That being said, I don't imagine setting up a script that works with the game is going to be something just any player can do. I've NEVER heard of someone using this "auto reload" script. Not in any game ever. Might it exist? Sure, does it really really matter? No. It's no different then what a really really skilled player might accomplish. There isn't a way to prove that a player might be doing this. And ultimately there's better things to be doing then catching people who take shortcuts.

[xSlideShow]

I don't mind the idea of macro's if they want to take the time to do it. Why not, it doesn't effect my gameplay. Some people wanna be a robot, why not. As long as it doesn't let them do things I can't do myself.

[Trolltaxi]

Macros and 3rd party apps aren't totally useless or necessarily cheating.
...
I'd be sad if mice with more than 3 buttons, or however many they plan to support w/ the in-game config, were banned from PS2. AutoHotkey is just pushing buttons, so I would also be sad if using a keyboard well was banned from PS2.

If all you are doing is interacting with the game using the tools the developers have provided (keybindings), I don't count it as cheating.


Pressing a bound hotkey triggers one action. Pressing the macro button triggers multiple actions. That's the difference. And that's why it is cheating.

If someone is willing to go through the effort let them. Doesn't affect me or my gameplay. I'll still beat them into the floor.
...
It's no different then what a really really skilled player might accomplish.

Player skill is something I respect. Macros are something, I don't. Because it's not skill at all. It isn't an even field anymore.

[Fenrys]

Pressing a bound hotkey triggers one action. Pressing the macro button triggers multiple actions. That's the difference. And that's why it is cheating.

I understand the difference, and disagree with your definition of 'cheating'.


It isn't an even field anymore.

It will never be an even field unless everyone is playing on a console and using the same ISP from the same physical address.

There are any number of ways to gain an advantage. You can use 3 monitors and have a larger field of view. You can use good headphones that let you hear footsteps better. You can use a faster CPU/GPU and get smoother framerates. Even something as simple as a larger mouse pad is advantageous - you can turn the sensitivity down for more precise aiming while maintaining the ability to spin 180º without lifting the mouse.

Using software that makes multiple keystrokes easier isn't cheating any more than using a fast computer and larger mouse pad that makes aiming easier is cheating.

IMO, using multiple monitors is more questionable than using macros. Anybody can push those buttons to create the same effects that a macro creates, but not everybody can push a button to get enhanced peripheral vision.

[Graywolves]

The difference between a skilled player's consistency and the scripted player's consistency is that the former is consistent because of his skill, not automated macro's and scripts.

[ShockFC]

i thought you were going to say flails.

http://imgur.com/vqYuG.gif

[Trolltaxi]

I understand the difference, and disagree with your definition of 'cheating'.




It will never be an even field unless everyone is playing on a console and using the same ISP from the same physical address.

There are any number of ways to gain an advantage. You can use 3 monitors and have a larger field of view. You can use good headphones that let you hear footsteps better. You can use a faster CPU/GPU and get smoother framerates. Even something as simple as a larger mouse pad is advantageous - you can turn the sensitivity down for more precise aiming while maintaining the ability to spin 180º without lifting the mouse.


Don't say the word 'console' pls! That always starts a flamewar! :)

But back to the topic. All the monitors, the good headphones, better CPU/GPU affects _your_ "input". How much and how accurate info you get from your surroundings.

But a macro affects _your_ "output". If I send my blackbelt buddy to the fight in the pub, it is not me fighting right? If I send my macros, it's not me, fighing... right?

The mousepad is a matter of personal preference. Someone likes gymnastics, others hardly move their mouses. A large mat doesn't mean anything for the latter.

[Fenrys]

If I send my blackbelt buddy to the fight in the pub, it is not me fighting right? If I send my macros, it's not me, fighing... right?

That's arguable. From a certain perspective, you are just using a different set of skills. In this case your social skill would confer advantage in a pub brawl, and computer savvy would let you create and/or use macros.

If your buddy's name was Gandalf, that would be messed up. Gandalf can change the laws of physics, aka cheating.

Or to make another movie reference, macros are like Agent Smith and cheaters are like Neo. Agents, like macros, work within the rules of the system. Neo, like a cheater, breaks the system and does things that were intended to be impossible by the creators of the system.

[Effective]

Player skill is something I respect. Macros are something, I don't. Because it's not skill at all. It isn't an even field anymore.

Except there is no way to be 100% certain someone is using a macro.

[morf]

Look guys a macro is just a shortcut. Let's say you have a macro that puts your Jackhammer in secondary fire mode, fires all barrels, and switches to your pistol for the finish. Now let's say you miss with the triple shot... you're still committed to pulling out the pistol and now you're a sitting duck until you can get your shit back together. This is the downside to macroing. You're giving up flexibility to eliminate tedious actions and once you activate the macro, you're committed to performing the actions you set it up to perform.

It's okay to set up your hardware to suit your play style. As previously discussed, its not any different from using a joystick to optimize input. Optimization isn't cheating, it's good play. Plain and simple, if you lose to someone using a macro you got outplayed. Since when is it kosher to go around demanding that because you are doing something in an unefficient manner, everyone else should do the same?

Let's call this what it is: this thread is a bunch of bad players blaming their lack of success on their opponents' hardware setup. Why? Because it makes them feel better to tell themselves they are on moral high ground when they're staring at the respawn screen. You're not doing yourselves any favors here because you're not losing because of macros, you're losing because you're bad.

I encourage you all to buy a gaming mouse and keyboard, so you can set up a bunch of macros, and continue to lose and find out how bad you really are. The first step to becoming not bad is to realize that you are, in fact, really really bad. But look guys, it's okay to be bad. if no one was bad, how could the good players be good? there really isn't anything wrong with being bad, but can you at least stop coming up with lame excuses about it? Everyone has control over their own hardware set up, choose one that fits your playstyle, but don't be whining about mine.

[Trolltaxi]

Or to make another movie reference, macros are like Agent Smith and cheaters are like Neo. Agents, like macros, work within the rules of the system. Neo, like a cheater, breaks the system and does things that were intended to be impossible by the creators of the system.

Pretty nice analogy. I'd like to argue with it but I won't (like Agents could sew Mr. Anderson's mouth and could also fly etc...) I see your point. Still, I don't want to play neither against Agents nor Neos in the matrix of PS2.

Except there is no way to be 100% certain someone is using a macro. If he is that skilled, I bow and salute. And I don't cry cheater when he kills me 10 times out of 10.

[Trolltaxi]

blah-blah... Everyone has control over their own hardware set up, choose one that fits your playstyle, but don't be whining about mine.

Morf in write only mode in the middle of the Universe...

1 strike-1 action - that's skill
1 strike - multiple actions - that's shame (if it comes with the reassuring feel of uberness...)

What is it so hard to understand?

"Optimizing hardware" is an euphemy of cheating - or something close to it. Why don't you start optimizing your software?

[morf]

Morf in write only mode in the middle of the Universe...

1 strike-1 action - that's skill
1 strike - multiple actions - that's shame (if it comes with the reassuring feel of uberness...)

What is it so hard to understand?

"Optimizing hardware" is an euphemy of cheating - or something close to it. Why don't you start optimizing your software?

look let's say you're building automobiles by hand and selling them. it takes you 2 years to build an automobile. I build a factory that produces 30 automobiles a day. is that cheating? Just because you're a masochist who likes to do everything the hard way, doesn't make it the right way and it doesn't mean everyone else needs to do it the way you do. Different people have different playstyles and assigning a sequence of repetitive tasks to a single button isn't cheating, it's just a more efficient way to accomplish the same task.

[IronMole]

look let's say you're building automobiles by hand and selling them. it takes you 2 years to build an automobile. I build a factory that produces 30 automobiles a day. is that cheating? Just because you're a masochist who likes to do everything the hard way, doesn't make it the right way and it doesn't mean everyone else needs to do it the way you do. Different people have different playstyles and assigning a sequence of repetitive tasks to a single button isn't cheating, it's just a more efficient way to accomplish the same task.

That is the worst analogy ever...

Also, using macros to complete a sequence that isn't intended is pretty much cheating. No matter how you put it, or think what your reasoning is. Using a 3rd party macro for something other then simply mapping 1 key stroke is simply a cheat/n00bs way of playing.

How about you just learn to play the game how it's intended? Then maybe you won't suck as much?

Then again, why should I care, it's not like you'd be a threat in game any way.

[Graywolves]

Look guys a macro is just a shortcut. Let's say you have a macro that puts your Jackhammer in secondary fire mode, fires all barrels, and switches to your pistol for the finish.

That's exactly the problem. You're not the one being consistent, your machine is and all you need to do is put your crosshair over. For all I know you have a problem keeping your mouse still when you click for some reason.

[morf]

That is the worst analogy ever...


Thanks for providing rationale to back up that statement.

Your post has no rationale, just opinion about what is "intended". The fact of the matter is that shortcuts, macros and programmable hardware transcend gaming and are used in all aspects of computing to eliminate trivial input tasks. It's a reasonable and accepted way to interact with a computer. it's SETTINGS. that's all it is. i can manage my control SETTINGS however i like, and so can you. you aren't losing because i macro. you're losing because you're bad.

[Trolltaxi]

look let's say you're building automobiles by hand and selling them. it takes you 2 years to build an automobile. I build a factory that produces 30 automobiles a day. is that cheating? Just because you're a masochist who likes to do everything the hard way, doesn't make it the right way and it doesn't mean everyone else needs to do it the way you do. Different people have different playstyles and assigning a sequence of repetitive tasks to a single button isn't cheating, it's just a more efficient way to accomplish the same task.

If you find adadada or reloading or whatever along these line in PS boring, you're really facing huuuge problems for the rest of your life mate...

BTW have you ever had a dinner in a real restaurant or you stick to McDonalds, fish&chips and pizza? I doubt otherwise you knew the difference between handwork and mass production... I don't even mention the difference between driving a Vauxhall or driving a Bentley. (no, not the Rolls-Royce, those are driven by a driver - and that's cheating... :) )

I'd say let's stop this here mate. You will never be able to reason why macros would legally replace player skill, I won't ever persuade you to live without these penis-boosters. It's pointless.

[Crator]

Just stop talking to the cheater. He won't understand.

[IronMole]

Thanks for providing rationale to back up that statement.

Your post, has no rationale, just opinion about what is "intended". The fact of the matter is that shortcuts, macros and programmable hardware transcend gaming and are used in all aspects of computing to eliminate trivial input tasks. It's a reasonable and accepted way to interact with a computer. it's SETTINGS. that's all it is. i can manage my control SETTINGS however i like, and so can you. you aren't losing because i macro. you're losing because you're bad.

Sorry, you're just illusional. Simple fact. If you HAVE to use macros, then you sir are indeed a terrible player.

Also, please read your analogy - even my 2 year old cousin would understand why it's stupid.

Really, If people like you are going to be playing this game, then it must be dumbed down much more than I thought.

[SKYeXile]

why the fuck would you press like 5 buttons instead of 1, unless you're Korean.

i still dont know wtf macros you would want to use in an FPS but, straif macros...........Really?

[Firefly]

why the fuck would you press like 5 buttons instead of 1, unless you're Korean.
I understand the usage of macros in an MMO-RPG. I don't use them, myself, because I'm both into S&M and a purist. I also don't use third-party mods whether they are UI enhancements or otherwise.

i still dont know wtf macros you would want to use in an FPS but, straif macros...........Really?
This, exactly. It's an FPS - it goes like this:

WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

oops I'm in combat ADADADADDADDAD

<-- that's me pressing my mouse button, you can't see it but I just jacked off all over that spot with my click-spam.

[Effective]

All I think morf is trying to saying is that people don't need to be banned for using macros.

And I agree with him. Will I use a macro in combat to gain an advantage? Doubtful. Will I care if someone else does? No.

[morf]

Sorry, you're just illusional.

Yeah I'm a regular Penn Gillette, thanks.


Simple fact. If you HAVE to use macros, then you sir are indeed a terrible player.

Also, please read your analogy - even my 2 year old cousin would understand why it's stupid.

Really, If people like you are going to be playing this game, then it must be dumbed down much more than I thought.

Frustrated opinion abound but no facts can be found... again


Just stop talking to the cheater. He won't understand.

you're really facing huuuge problems for the rest of your life mate...


BTW have you ever had a dinner in a real restaurant or you stick to McDonalds, fish&chips and pizza?


I won't ever persuade you to live without these penis-boosters.

Really, If people like you are going to be playing this game, then it must be dumbed down much more than I thought.

ROFL. I find it hilarious that all 3 of you guys have abandoned all hope of winning the argument and resorted to character assassination instead.

All I think morf is trying to saying is that people don't need to be banned for using macros.

And I agree with him. Will I use a macro in combat to gain an advantage? Doubtful. Will I care if someone else does? No.

Yeah this exactly. I may use a few, but situations where they are useful are few and far between. It's really not much of a difference, at all. You guys are acting like every time you've ever died it was because of a "MACRO CHEATER" - seriously, cry me a river.

[Graywolves]

Is this a discussion about exploiting equipment to gain an upperhand against people who do not do the same thing or a circlejerk?

[morf]

Is this a discussion about exploiting equipment to gain an upperhand against people who do not do the same thing or a circlejerk?

As I said before, it's a whinefest where bad players blame their losses on their opponents' hardware setup.

[SKYeXile]

As I said before, it's a whinefest where bad players blame their losses on their opponents' hardware setup.

HE'S ALL FRAMES!

[Redshift]

I'd quite like chat macro's back, like PS1. Those were useful. I'd also quite like the ability to bind some voice macro's to single keys.
There's no need for anything more than that, they're useful in rpg's not so much in fps's

[Metalsheep]

I dont think using Macros is cheating at all. Sure, its a shortcut, but it dosent always give such a huge advantage.

In Planetside, i have a G500 mouse, and i set up my thumb button to hit my T key and my F3 key at the same time. So i can switch to third person, AND it also turns on my Audio Amp, i can hit it again and both turn off. I never felt like this was cheating, or gave me a huge advantage, its just conveniant to not have to move my Movement hand away from WASD or my mouse hand from my mouse.

Macro keyboards/mice just send in keystrokes in the order you tell it to, it dosent seem like there is a realistic way to block it, and i know if a game blocked my X6 keyboard or my G500 mouse, i personally would be very pissed, as i paid the extra money for the features it provided.

[morf]

In Planetside, i have a G500 mouse, and i set up my thumb button to hit my T key and my F3 key at the same time. So i can switch to third person, AND it also turns on my Audio Amp, i can hit it again and both turn off. I never felt like this was cheating, or gave me a huge advantage, its just conveniant to not have to move my Movement hand away from WASD or my mouse hand from my mouse.


OH LOOK AT HOW U CHEAT U BIG FAT CHEATING CHEATER CHEAT BASTARD UR JUST ILLUSIONAL MY 3 YEAR OLD COUSIN EVEN KNOWS U ARE CHEATING CHEATER U MUST BE REALLY TERRIBLE AT THE GAME TO USE MARCO ROFL LOL LOL LOLOLOLOLOLROLFRFROLOF YOU MUST EAT AT MCDONALDS TOO IF U CANT PUSH 2 BUTONS U SUCK AT LIFE THEY GOTTA DUMB DOWN THIS GAME SO U CAN PLAY

etc..

[IronMole]

OH LOOK AT HOW U CHEAT U BIG FAT CHEATING CHEATER CHEAT BASTARD UR JUST ILLUSIONAL MY 3 YEAR OLD COUSIN EVEN KNOWS U ARE CHEATING CHEATER U MUST BE REALLY TERRIBLE AT THE GAME TO USE MARCO ROFL LOL LOL LOLOLOLOLOLROLFRFROLOF YOU MUST EAT AT MCDONALDS TOO IF U CANT PUSH 2 BUTONS U SUCK AT LIFE THEY GOTTA DUMB DOWN THIS GAME SO U CAN PLAY

etc..

What did you say!? - YouTube

[morf]

just summing up the anti-macro arguments so they don't have to make them again.

[UnknownDT]

Go ahead and use macros... I'll still beat the person who does :P as with many other players in DT. Macros is a shortcut.. if they need them to play/win it only makes people who don't look a little better.

[IronMole]

Go ahead and use macros... I'll still beat the person who does :P as with many other players in DT. Macros is a shortcut.. if they need them to play/win it only makes people who don't look a little better.
http://i.imgur.com/K2mf6.png

[UnknownDT]

http://i.imgur.com/K2mf6.png

lmao about sums my post up just sayin.

You know I'm right though.:groovy:

[IronMole]

lmao about sums my post up just sayin.

You know I'm right though.:groovy:

Indeed. Sorry. I saw the image, laughed and just found it appropriate to post. :p

[UnknownDT]

Indeed. Sorry. I saw the image, laughed and just found it appropriate to post. :p

I definately laughed for awhile lmao :P I just imagined the guy in the picture shaking his head while he says that and it just made it even funnier :P