Foliage

[General M]

I'm sure there'll be good level of detail of foliage (in particular, long grass, bushes etc.) in the game but my point is this:

Unless there's a toggle foliage option (very bad IMO as foliage can be used tactically), there will undoubtedly be a problem concerning the amount of high detail foliage that could be handled. In response to this, I would say that personally I would rather have certain areas or hexes that were very foliage heavy (so much so it served a tactical) while the rest of the map was fairly bare instead of a situation where we have fairly nice shrubbery spread across the map but none of it is any use.

Obviously I am not a dev, nor have I seen the game so I don't know the technicalities but as a general point do others agree? :)

[DviddLeff]

There needs to be more concealment in PS2 and it looks like there is from the screenshots... as you say it shouldnt be turned off.

If computers cant handle it, redesign or remove it as hardly anyone will use it if it handicaps them.

[Zulthus]

If there is foliage in the game, there should be absolutely no way to toggle it off. But as someone said, if lower end PCs can't handle it, scale it back for everyone. But either everyone has it or no one does.

[Coreldan]

Well, since we don't have prone, disabling like.. knee high grass and foliage like that should not give a real advantage to anyone.

[General M]

Well, since we don't have prone, disabling like.. knee high grass and foliage like that should not give a real advantage to anyone.

ah, good point :lol:

[SuperMorto]

All I will say on this is PS2 has a new game engine, more for less if you know what I mean, this could be fantastic for an old PC, but on the flip side it could be a nightmare, we will have to see.

[Zulthus]

Well, since we don't have prone, disabling like.. knee high grass and foliage like that should not give a real advantage to anyone.

Then it won't give a disadvantage to anyone, either. Plus, you could hide mines in grassy fields. Tanks won't stand a chance...

[Figment]

Knee-high grass conceals mines very well. Look at how well you can see mines in ye ol' PlanetSide with or without grass on.

It's a definite combat advantage and it also increases your frame rate performance if you can turn it off.

[DayOne]

Well, since we don't have prone, disabling like.. knee high grass and foliage like that should not give a real advantage to anyone.

This. So long as your aren't allowed to disable larger bushes and cacti just turning off grass shouldn't be an issue.


EDIT: Figment also has a good point

[Hmr85]

Foliage should be on at all times IMO. If the lower pcs cannot handle it. Then scale it back some so its equal for everybody and they can still run the game. I have been running with foliage on in PS1 in anticipation for PS2. So I hope its is a option that cannot be toggled off.

[Graywolves]

I've never toggled off foliage.

[Warborn]

Making there a lot of foliage but making it not toggleable might be a hard sell. I think PS2 looks amazing visually and a jungle that was relatively densely vegetated would probably be cool to see. But, gotta think about the folks with kinda crappy computers. Or maybe even us people with average computers would find foliage a big framerate drop? Either way, I hope they can find a way to keep foliage but not make areas with a lot of it a big FPS trap for some people.

[DayOne]

The problem for most low spec. PCs will be the amount of foliage, perhaps just scaling back the draw distance would work? Depends how easy characters are to see.

Or, have some sort of buried mine, no one would be able to see it, bit of a bitch if you 'find' one but it would be hidden by grass anyway.

[SniperSteve]

This is 2012. Foliage shouldn't create performance issues unless you are doing like destructable/interactable physics foliage, neither of which I expect to see in PS2, or intensive lighting, which would most likely be salable.

[Sirisian]

The problem is that the engine will remove grass on hilltops far away usually. Now for a sniper looking over a hilltop they see the grass around them which might block their view. For a person far away sniping at them they don't see it. This happened in PS1 so most people would flip off grass so they weren't at a disadvantage. Hopefully PS1 sticks to grass only on planes and not on the tops of hills and such so I can keep it on all the time.

[Vash02]

I believe Higby has confirmed that there wont be a toggle for foliage, its always going to be on.

[Vancha]

Foliage, like weather, needs to be on for all.

[General M]

Just a side note, have we seen much ground foliage in any screenshots yet?

[DayOne]

There's been some but we've only had pics from the deserts, the foliage is either pretty low and insignificant or trees.

[Scrima]

The problem is that the engine will remove grass on hilltops far away usually. Now for a sniper looking over a hilltop they see the grass around them which might block their view. For a person far away sniping at them they don't see it. This happened in PS1 so most people would flip off grass so they weren't at a disadvantage. Hopefully PS1 sticks to grass only on planes and not on the tops of hills and such so I can keep it on all the time.

With foliage on for all this is what I am concerned about, hopefully there will be something that takes care of it - foliage in a close quarters battle is never an issue but when you get past a certain draw distance and it just disappears, snipers/others stick out like a sore thumb in the distance.

[Hamma]

Yea you definitely should NOT be able to toggle or decrease anything that provides cover or concealment.

[cellinaire]

This thread suddenly reminded me of a person who even complained that each and every pebble in this game should have mind-blowing textures on them...


Well back to the topic, we aren't all technical/graphical experts when it comes to game development, so we will have to test the game on our own to draw tentative conclusions I'd say.

[cellinaire]

With foliage on for all this is what I am concerned about, hopefully there will be something that takes care of it - foliage in a close quarters battle is never an issue but when you get past a certain draw distance and it just disappears, snipers/others stick out like a sore thumb in the distance.

Sounds like giving some penalty to sniper community. I think there should be some kind of compromise on this one.

[Shade Millith]

While I agree it needs to be 'One setting for all', foliage like grass and small plants can be a pretty hefty draw on systems in my experience.

Hell, I remember in Oblivion, it chopped a good 20fps off just turning it on. At least it did on my system.

[Coreldan]

Good point with the mines, didnt think about them. That said, I suppose the "light cloak" for mines will stay, but it still is a good point that even with the light cloak it was still harder to see them under foliage than just on the flat ground.

As for other games, foliage in SWTOR seemed to be one major performance killer for many.

[Erendil]

I believe Higby has confirmed that there wont be a toggle for foliage, its always going to be on.

Yep. He said you won't be able to turn off any of the eye candy like that that would give you a tactical advantage.

With foliage on for all this is what I am concerned about, hopefully there will be something that takes care of it - foliage in a close quarters battle is never an issue but when you get past a certain draw distance and it just disappears, snipers/others stick out like a sore thumb in the distance.

Snipers will be getting a limited cloaking suit. I don't think sticking out will be much of an issue for a sniper who plays at all smart.

And although there might be a draw limit on grasses, I doubt that they'd make bushes and other large concealment disappear before the max draw distance for players.

[Ailos]

Foliage should be always on for everyone. End of story.

I don't see it being that much of an issue, either. You can optimize its performance for older PCs by having its draw distance be the same as mines and deployables, so you never get to that problem of being able to see mines before the grass shows up. To put it a different way, anything on the ground could be classified as a "ground object" and that entire class of objects has the same drawing distance that can be optimized and scaled down for older PCs.

It looks like snipers will have some semblance of a cloak suit this time around, which means that anyone who is serious on the matter would/should be using it (or else, get an engineer buddy to deploy some holographic cover for you) on top of the cammo pattern option. Foliage or no foliage, smart snipers won't have a problem here.

[VioletZero]

Whatever foliage is added, make it mandatory for everyone to have it on maximum density and draw distance.

People are just going to turn it down to lowest anyway.

[SKYeXile]

Whatever foliage is added, make it mandatory for everyone to have it on maximum density and draw distance.

People are just going to turn it down to lowest anyway.

yup, always a problem if you can just turn it off like PS1...why would i want to play at a disadvantage? harder to see mines and some people, yea pass on that.

its like having the retard box ticked in WOT "Enable vibration in sniper mode" err yea bro, think im gonna have to pass on shooting like a retard.

[Graywolves]

I always had foliage on in PS1. Never felt like it made a difference, saw mines fine (because they're a drastically different color and stand out...) and they were only an inch high...

[Traak]

I want particle physics for foliage: A certain amount of deflection of projectiles can be expected: less for less foliage, more for more or denser foliage.