Am I getting this right....?

[KrazyJester]

Cookie cutter class restrictions?

[DayOne]

Yes.

No need for another thread on this though.

Edit: I should probably point out that there will be much customisation in the weapons. This will hopefully make the classes feel a little less static.

[Bags]

Sadly yes, but it's not all bad. Lots of good customization, and there's more classes than BF3!

[Shade Millith]

Cookie cutter class restrictions?

You got that right. (Has he?)

Gone are the days of inventory freedom! (Horrible horrible freedom!)

Never again will you be FORCED to think for yourself! (Oh the horror!)

No longer will you be able to MAKE a class to do what you want it to. (Oh how could one possibly choose?)

We've preselected your classes for you now, so even a moron can get it right! (Oh how wonderful!) (We're saved) (Please guide us like we're stupid)



TL;DR. Yes. It's f***ing stupid as all get out, and I don't like it.

[KrazyJester]

thanks, already lost interest then. what makes 1 stand out from all other FPS's was you could set your inventory to a T. Customizing weapons doesnt mean shit when you cant set your gear to fit.

[Zulthus]

thanks, already lost interest then. what makes 1 stand out from all other FPS's was you could set your inventory to a T. Customizing weapons doesnt mean shit when you cant set your gear to fit.

I know how ya feel, bro. Sadly we're in the age of instant gratification and most people have the intelligence of a plastic cup. Having to do any work ruins the game for most people.

[Warborn]

Yeah I too only played the original because I liked mulling over details like whether to take one box of AP ammo or an extra medkit.

[DayOne]

thanks, already lost interest then. what makes 1 stand out from all other FPS's was you could set your inventory to a T. Customizing weapons doesnt mean shit when you cant set your gear to fit.

What made 1 stand out were the insanely large battles. Maybe they will realise their mistake during beta!

[PoisonTaco]

So much drama over a simple inventory system.

[Crazyduckling]

So much drama over a simple inventory system.

this guy.

seriously. the way they make it sound, we'll have so much customization, that eventually it won't matter.

please, wait until beta. you don't know how it will play out...neither do i, but the amount of complaining regarding to changes in game mechanics is rather appalling.

[Bags]

thanks, already lost interest then. what makes 1 stand out from all other FPS's was you could set your inventory to a T. Customizing weapons doesnt mean shit when you cant set your gear to fit.

>don't play the game
>lose interest already

Your loss, mate.

For the record, I don't like this change, but I doubt that will ruin PS...

[NCLynx]

>don't play the game
>lose interest already

Your loss, mate.

For the record, I don't like this change, but I doubt that will ruin PS...

this.

Huge battles are huge battles, I'd play the game even if we all had the same guns/armor and no vehicles if it was more than 16vs16. (Big of an exaggeration but you get my point)

[Warborn]

I bet if you went down the list of armor types you would find that people used incredibly similar load-outs for a given function. How many rexo guys were armor tool, med tool, HA, AV, box of AV ammo, few boxes of HA ammo, medkit or two, and maybe a jammer or something? Considering the classes can be customized in terms of weapons and certifications, I have a strong suspicion that this really isn't a loss of customization at all. In fact, there's probably even more customization on account of the old "do everything" rexo soldier having gone the way of the dodo.

[CutterJohn]

-No tools/weapons in inventory? Great change.

-Customizable weapons? Great change.

-Restricted weapon selections? Eh.. I can see why they'd want it, but I'd prefer balancing such that its not a good idea rather than you can't.

-Can't customize ammo? Mostly shitty, except for a few things like grenades and such.

-Vehicles and MAX units get customization? Awesome change.

Final customization score:

PS1: C+
PS2: A-

[Marth Koopa]

I think it's a good change.

Instead of fiddling with things to get the optimal fit on a grid, you just pick which things you want to add to your set.

Same result, less annoyance and time wasting, more BLAM BLAM PEW PEW KABOOM

[Vancha]

thanks, already lost interest then. what makes 1 stand out from all other FPS's was you could set your inventory to a T. Customizing weapons doesnt mean shit when you cant set your gear to fit.

That's what made PS1 stand out from the other FPS'? Not the scale? Not the vast amount of roles? Not the fact that the pilots, drivers, base repairs etc. were all done by the players?

Oh yeah, with classes PS is indistinguishable from any other FPS on the market. :doh:

[Fara]

I'm a little concerned about the inventory restrictions but will wait and see how it plays during beta.


Also did I read we can no longer loot enemy factions gear? Please tell me I can still steal a Lasher from VS and Vanguard from NC (assuming I was TR). This made Planetside awesome. (that and after a prelonged firefight salvaging all you could from the enemy to stay alive with your platoon).

I remember clearly holding a gen in PS1 days and while we all started with MCG's by the time the zerg had caught upto the base we were holding we had all "aquired" jackhammers due to lack of ammo and NC interventions. (was epic).

[IceyCold]

Oh no! They removed the free form inventory!! Now how will I pack med/engi/HA/AV into my Rexo so I don't have to work with anyone in this team based game!

That is what I get with everyone complaining about this topic. I'm sorry. I liked the old inventory (still a bit annoyed that we can't loot weapons) but only a small portion ever used it for anything except the flavor of the month build.

I have not yet heard one reason aside from "It was like that in PS1!" or "I want to carry what I want!" that really speaks as to why this change is so bad. Instead they go for a very open ended class system that encourages teamwork and working as a unit; and now suddenly that is somehow BAD?

Color me confused.

Also, if the inventory was the most notable thing to you about Planetside 1, then please point me to all these other massive scale FPS's that exist.

I'll wait.

[Shade Millith]

Oh no! They removed the free form inventory!! Now how will I pack med/engi/HA/AV into my Rexo so I don't have to work with anyone in this team based game!

That is what I get with everyone complaining about this topic. I'm sorry. I liked the old inventory (still a bit annoyed that we can't loot weapons) but only a small portion ever used it for anything except the flavor of the month build.

I have not yet heard one reason aside from "It was like that in PS1!" or "I want to carry what I want!" that really speaks as to why this change is so bad. Instead they go for a very open ended class system that encourages teamwork and working as a unit; and now suddenly that is somehow BAD?

I had one cookie-cutter setup (Medium Assault/AV/REK). Everything else was made for certain situations.

Grenader - Grenade Launcher, Assault Rifle with Underslung grenade launcher, frage grenades and Plasma Grenades.

Close range - Flame Thrower, Shotgun, lots of medkits.

Long Range - Skorpion, Sniper Rifle.

Assault - Maelstrom, Grenade Launcher, lots of medkits.

And the possibility to mix and match to what I think I might need.

Put restrictions on medic applicators, I don't freaking care. I just don't want to lose that massive customization we had.

I've yet to hear what exactly their intending to do with the customization of weapon, but it sounds nothing more than slight variations of the same weapon.


So no, I want actual customization of my gear. Not this joke of cookiecutter classes thing they're having.
"Here's 3 medkits, 150 rounds, 3 grenades"
"But I want four medkits, can I drop this ammo?"
"Too much ammo, keep 50 of it and give me 3 more grenades"
"Hey? Can I drop these medkits for more glue?"
"SCREW YOU YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU WANT THREE MEDKITS, 150 ROUNDS AND 3 GRENADES"

[KrazyJester]

Oh no! They removed the free form inventory!! Now how will I pack med/engi/HA/AV into my Rexo so I don't have to work with anyone in this team based game!

That is what I get with everyone complaining about this topic. I'm sorry. I liked the old inventory (still a bit annoyed that we can't loot weapons) but only a small portion ever used it for anything except the flavor of the month build.

I have not yet heard one reason aside from "It was like that in PS1!" or "I want to carry what I want!" that really speaks as to why this change is so bad. Instead they go for a very open ended class system that encourages teamwork and working as a unit; and now suddenly that is somehow BAD?

Color me confused.

Also, if the inventory was the most notable thing to you about Planetside 1, then please point me to all these other massive scale FPS's that exist.

I'll wait.

No its the fact that you cant multi class that makes it just like every other fucking game out there, so what if theres 20 or 1000 people you are fighting against. I can pick up another game and still accomplish the same shit.

Its the same concept of "if it isnt broke, dont try to fix it" prime example is SWG when they did the "combat upgrade" and lost all there followers.

The inventory made it so people can pick play styles, wether it was flavor of the month or not it was people talking about what was good. Or going light on ammo in a Max so you can drop aces, repair or med for people during missions.

Shit even with the multi classing, people worked together as a team. or if people felt like it they could go off on there own and not have to rely on others. It gives them an option.........

And no, I am talking about all FPS's, the amount of people and the graphics of a game only account for being asthetically pleasing, its the gameplay that keeps people playing. And all of this is my personal opinion. I dont want BF3 on a bigger scale all because of a consumer base, it gets old real quick.

[Lonehunter]

Inventories where the most "cookie cutter" thing about PS1. Everyone knew the most efficient loadouts, it merely just became an advantage to have over new players who aren't used to managing it.

But if you want to dismiss a game before beta that isn't a problem, there are plenty of refills for your spot :)

[Shade Millith]

Inventories where the most "cookie cutter" thing about PS1. Everyone knew the most efficient loadouts, it merely just became an advantage to have over new players who aren't used to managing it.

But if you want to dismiss a game before beta that isn't a problem, there are plenty of refills for your spot :)

So the solution to a few cookiecutter loadouts was to go the full 9 yards and make everything cookiecutter?

That doesn't make sense.

If the problem was HA/AV/Engi/Medi, then make a few restrictions.

Here's a brain storming session that lasted about 5 seconds. You pick up HA, you can't use medi/AV. You pick up x, you can't use engi.

Suddenly!!! We still have the massive customization, but still restrict HA/AVmedi/Engi. We get to keep stealing others weapons. We get to loot the enemies for ammo and supplies.

[CutterJohn]

So no, I want actual customization of my gear. Not this joke of cookiecutter classes thing they're having.

You realize PS1 had a LOT of cookie cutter classes, right?

Hint: Not everything was infantry...

So the solution to a few cookiecutter loadouts was to go the full 9 yards and make everything cookiecutter?

That doesn't make sense.

If the problem was HA/AV/Engi/Medi, then make a few restrictions.

Here's a brain storming session that lasted about 5 seconds. You pick up HA, you can't use medi/AV. You pick up x, you can't use engi.

Suddenly!!! We still have the massive customization, but still restrict HA/AVmedi/Engi. We get to keep stealing others weapons. We get to loot the enemies for ammo and supplies.

So what happens when a cloaker fits HA?

[Vancha]

No its the fact that you cant multi class that makes it just like every other fucking game out there, so what if theres 20 or 1000 people you are fighting against. I can pick up another game and still accomplish the same shit.
I don't know about accomplishing "shit" (is kill-count and achievements what matters to you?), but I don't think you can say playing with 20 people is the same as playing with 1000 people. They're slightly different experiences...and by slightly I don't mean slightly.

Its the same concept of "if it isnt broke, dont try to fix it"
Hence the reason they're fixing it.

The inventory made it so people can pick play styles, wether it was flavor of the month or not it was people talking about what was good. Or going light on ammo in a Max so you can drop aces, repair or med for people during missions.
And what playstyle do you think they've killed by going with classes instead? Maybe you won't be able to carry repair and med juice as a MAX, but that seems like a silly reason to discount an entire game. Besides, how do you know those kinds of "holds" will exist in PS2? How do you know engineers or medics will need restocking? We don't. Not yet.


Shit even with the multi classing, people worked together as a team. or if people felt like it they could go off on there own and not have to rely on others. It gives them an option........
How do you know people won't be able to play independently? God forbid things like regeneration implants and whatever else are actually viable this time round.......

And no, I am talking about all FPS's, the amount of people and the graphics of a game only account for being asthetically pleasing, its the gameplay that keeps people playing. And all of this is my personal opinion. I dont want BF3 on a bigger scale all because of a consumer base, it gets old real quick.
Class system = BF3 on a bigger scale?

[Shade Millith]

You realize PS1 had a LOT of cookie cutter classes, right?

Hint: Not everything was infantry...



So what happens when a cloaker fits HA?

Seriously? When has a cloaker EVER been able to fit HA?

There was already restrictions placed on weapons to prevent that, what on earth would make you think that I'd want to get rid of that?

How do you know engineers or medics will need restocking? We don't. Not yet.

And they damn well better. No instant, unlimited rezing. At all.

Class system = BF3 on a bigger scale?

They've stated that BF3 is one of their inspirations. So yes, I'm imagining BF3 with 1000+ players. I'm a pessimist. I don't trust them one iota

BF3's rezing system (Instant rezing, full health, unlimited uses on the bloody ASSAULT class) was terrible. BF3's 'customization' was terrible and cookiecutter (Hello IRV Scope/SCAR engi's). BF3's support was terrible (Free, unlimited ammo created from thin air) was terrible. BF3's squad spawn system (Hello people popping up outta thin air) was terrible .

And the idea that THAT game is one that they're using as inspiration scares the crap outta me.

And what playstyle do you think they've killed by going with classes instead?

Cloaking medic is at least one that I can think of. They've already killed off most of the vehicle support roles, so I'm not putting it past them to kill of more.

[CutterJohn]

Seriously? When has a cloaker EVER been able to fit HA?

There was already restrictions placed on weapons to prevent that, what on earth would make you think that I'd want to get rid of that?

No, I figured you did. I just had to make sure you remembered, and thought it a good idea, before I laughed at you.

Which I will do now: :rofl:


In case you don't understand, cloakers not being able to carry HA is.. drumroll.. a class restriction. And you, it seems, like it. Presumably because That's The Way It Was In Planetside, which makes it 100% acceptable.

It is in no way any more arbitrary than a restricting Rexo from carrying a med app or something.


They've stated that BF3 is one of their inspirations. So yes, I'm imagining BF3 with 1000+ players. I'm a pessimist. I don't trust them one iota

Oh man that'd be awesome. :D

[Vancha]

Cloaking medic is at least one that I can think of. They've already killed off most of the vehicle support roles, so I'm not putting it past them to kill of more.
Will cloakers have no way of healing people?

What vehicle support roles have they killed off?

[Coreldan]

Well, AMS as we knew it, Lodestar and ANT are gone at least for launch.

[DayOne]

Give the Gal a magnet instead of weapons...Instant Lodestar!

[XLynxX]

The thing people seem to miss about the difference of PS2 and PS1 is how deep they intend the class system to go. PS1's freedom of loadout was fantastic, but that was because of the little choice there relatively was. You could have adv med, eng, HA, AV, mossie, reaver, rexo (as many people did). However, no real combination of certs gave you massive advantage over the enemy.

If now they are going as deep as they say into certifications and character development. Then the idea of having a medic who could have +50 hp, can heal himself and teammates quicker and can have a jetpack while also weilding a MCG with an increased reload speed would be insanity. (Btw I don't know if medics will get +50hp, ability to heal himself, and I don't know if you can increase the MCG reload speed. I'm just using those as possible examples).

People are thinking of PS1 and how removing a free inventory would kill the game which it definately would, but in a game with as many variables as PS2 hopes to have, not restricting loadouts would be a horrific balance issue.

[Shade Millith]

Will cloakers have no way of healing people?

What vehicle support roles have they killed off?

AMS driver, Loadsta, ANT driver, and artillery. That's most of the support vehicles.

cloakers not being able to carry HA is.. drumroll.. a class restriction.

No, as there were no classes. Cloaker wasn't a 'class', it was an armor type. As such, it's an Armor Restriction. Just as the Agile is restricted to one rifle slot.

Your 'class' (If you can even call it that) was decided by what you chose for your equipment.

It is in no way any more arbitrary than a restricting Rexo from carrying a med app or something.

I have no issue with this. Armor Restrictions are fine. But this isn't what they're doing.

I'm sick of games that previously had great customization becoming stale and boring, because they get lazy with balancing.

[FriendlyFire]

Yeah I too only played the original because I liked mulling over details like whether to take one box of AP ammo or an extra medkit.

Pretty much this.

I loved filling in empty space with grenades.

[Vancha]

AMS driver, Loadsta, ANT driver, and artillery. That's most of the support vehicles.
If we're talking about roles/play-styles, AMS driver and lodestar are still in the game, in the form of Galaxies and Sunderers. Of course the experience won't be identical, it wouldn't have been even if they'd had AMS' and Lodestars in PS2, but that sort of vehicle support is still there.

ANT driver was the only thing apart from MAXs carrying supplies that immediately popped to mind. Again, it seems like a silly thing to dismiss a game for.

As for artillery, do we know it won't be in the game? Do we know there won't be MBT weapons that fill that role? Heck, remembering the picture of the prowler that was "well within range of the base", I'd say that almost passes already.

[Shogun]

hamma, it´s time to add a message to the "post new thread" page. in big red blinking letters:
Use search funktion before posting or your balls will be chopped off!

why do we get the same threads over and over instead of continuing the old ones?

on topic:
soe fixed the wrong thing.
the problem with ps1 was br40, not the freeform inventory. back when certpoints were limited, not every soldier had that dreaded onemanarmy setup.

now they opened up levelcap and had to fix the all-in-one problem elsewhere.
i hope beta will show that they didn´t kill the rare playstyles ba doing this.
not everybody who is ranting about classes does this because he wants back his jack of all trades setup. the jack of all trades is the thing that needed a fix. but supporters took great advantage od the freeform inventory as well. and it was legit! an engineer could decide if he wanted to carry ACEs in every inventory slot, rendering him defenceless but effective at fortifying a base. the cloakers had lot of legit options that would heavyly affect playstyle and role, too. and the choices of another gun or tool versus more ammo was also great.
that are the things i will miss, not the rexo-eng-av-ha-medic loadout i never even used.

[CutterJohn]

No, as there were no classes. Cloaker wasn't a 'class', it was an armor type. As such, it's an Armor Restriction. Just as the Agile is restricted to one rifle slot.

Your 'class' (If you can even call it that) was decided by what you chose for your equipment.

Oh, then this is an easy fix then. We just have to tell Higby to call them armors instead of classes. Then it will be an armor restriction.

[DayOne]

funktion

http://sunglasses.name/gif/flipthefrog.gif

[Graywolves]

the jack of all trades is the thing that needed a fix. but supporters took great advantage of the freeform inventory as well. and it was legit! an engineer could decide if he wanted to carry ACEs in every inventory slot, rendering him defenceless but effective at fortifying a base. the cloakers had lot of legit options that would heavyly affect playstyle and role, too. and the choices of another gun or tool versus more ammo was also great.
that are the things i will miss, not the rexo-eng-av-ha-medic loadout i never even used.

This. When I had CE certed there was a loadout where I had nothing but ACE in my inventory and sidearm slots. Go out, lay some CE, come back and reload at terminal, lay more CE.

Now you might get to lay 2 turrets and need more ammo again?



There was a lot of cool things you could do with free-form inventory that wasn't one-man army. If my outfit was doing a genhold I would have extra med and engie juice in my MAX. Someone ran out of ammo? I might have an abundance and drop a box for them.

I'm going to miss it but I think PS2's customization is going to be its own thing.

[basti]

No its the fact that you cant multi class that makes it just like every other fucking game out there, so what if theres 20 or 1000 people you are fighting against. I can pick up another game and still accomplish the same shit.

Its the same concept of "if it isnt broke, dont try to fix it" prime example is SWG when they did the "combat upgrade" and lost all there followers.

The inventory made it so people can pick play styles, wether it was flavor of the month or not it was people talking about what was good. Or going light on ammo in a Max so you can drop aces, repair or med for people during missions.

Shit even with the multi classing, people worked together as a team. or if people felt like it they could go off on there own and not have to rely on others. It gives them an option.........

And no, I am talking about all FPS's, the amount of people and the graphics of a game only account for being asthetically pleasing, its the gameplay that keeps people playing. And all of this is my personal opinion. I dont want BF3 on a bigger scale all because of a consumer base, it gets old real quick.

Actually, no, fact is your just stupid.


Everyone who wants the "free form inventory system" (it never was that, lol) rather than the class system is eighter a solo player who just wants to pack HA, Med, Engi, Hack, Rexo and whatever else, or just to damn stupid to understand the issues of the inventory system, and how nicley the class system fixes them.


Just trust me there: the class system is a whole lot better than the inventory system, as it fixes quite a lot of issues of the inventory, and allows us a lot more cool stuff to play with. Besides that, the class system doesnt exclude the possibility to put your own class together. Just gotta get a look at the classes and their skills first, and then the community will be quite quick with getting a "free form class" system together that doesnt break. ;)

[Vash02]

Read the post above yours basti.

[basti]

Read the post above yours basti.

And why exactly does anyone assume that we now have to run back to a term after laying two mines/placing two turrets? Would you guys just CHILL? Beta will tell the truth, and beta will also be our chance to improve the game. IF you need to make lots of running just to get your CE down, then its obviously time to tell the devs to come up with something to avoid all the running.
But there are quite a few PS vets among the devs, so i fully trust them that they already know.

[Shakrah]

thanks, already lost interest then. what makes 1 stand out from all other FPS's was you could set your inventory to a T. Customizing weapons doesnt mean shit when you cant set your gear to fit.
Just when I was finally getting up to speed on the game itself, I find out this... What the hell are they thinking?
There is enough BF3/CoD/WoH and other preset heroes games around.

I am going to read this further, but it starts to smell like they are franchising the Planetside game and turning it into something we have just seen too much off.

[NEWSKIS]

I liked the inventory system in PS1, but I'm not going to ignore the game since they're changing it. I'm going to do the beta regardless of that fact. Even if they change things, if it's a fun game I'll play it. But like a lot of things, don't say something is game breaking until you play the game.

Thats why I'm waiting until I play the beta or the game at release to decide what I think of the game. Doing that now would be pointless considering how much is still unknown about the game.

[Raymac]

If something like this ruins the game for someone, well I just feel sorry for them. Planetside 2 is bringing soooo much to the table. Plus, when I looked at the screen shot of the class selection screen, it actually struck me to how similar it actually was to the armor selections in PS1.

And let's kill this myth right here. This is not about "dumbing things down". This is about balance. When you look at the battlefield as a whole, I predict that we will see far more variety in troops than we did in PS1.

Deal with it, or just go ahead and play that other new MMOFPS with a freeform inventory system that uses combined arms of infantry, armor, and air. Oh that's right, there isn't one.

[Knightwyvern]

I'll be honest, I'll miss my Bolt Driver/Phoenix/CE combo. I'm hoping for the return of Special Assault, with the ability to switch between different ammo types for different situations. (I would REALLY miss special assault.)

However.. the good will still outweigh the bad. Remember folks, we still have beta. And besides that, PS2 is an MMO. They can add things/change things after launch.

[Vash02]

And why exactly does anyone assume that we now have to run back to a term after laying two mines/placing two turrets? Would you guys just CHILL? Beta will tell the truth, and beta will also be our chance to improve the game. IF you need to make lots of running just to get your CE down, then its obviously time to tell the devs to come up with something to avoid all the running.
But there are quite a few PS vets among the devs, so i fully trust them that they already know. Just pointing out that your ridiculous strawman didnt hold up to even a cursory look. Is this something precious to you or something? Even the mildest criticism and you are acting as if people are screaming their heads off. A few other people are acting like that aswell.

[texico]

If something like this ruins the game for someone, well I just feel sorry for them. Planetside 2 is bringing soooo much to the table. Plus, when I looked at the screen shot of the class selection screen, it actually struck me to how similar it actually was to the armor selections in PS1.

And let's kill this myth right here. This is not about "dumbing things down". This is about balance. When you look at the battlefield as a whole, I predict that we will see far more variety in troops than we did in PS1.

Deal with it, or just go ahead and play that other new MMOFPS with a freeform inventory system that uses combined arms of infantry, armor, and air. Oh that's right, there isn't one.

What is with the people who are against classes being put down? As a matter of fact, something like this can ruin the game for me and, as is evidence by the number of people who're complaining, many others. There's nothing sorry about them. A "subtle" or less high-profile change like this can have big implications for the way the game is played both on an individual basis and on the scale of the battle as a whole, enough to get people frustrated or put them off, or feel like their play is somehow diminished compared to ps1, and if you and others can't appreciate that then I feel sorry for you guys.

It's not just a matter of people like me looking at things from an overly-sophisticated view point either. I told one of my friends recently about how PlanetSide is getting a sequel. He likes to just play, and not think about things on a much deeper level. But the first thing he said to me was "they're taking out free-form inventory? That sucks!"

It's because he knows what was fun for him in PS1 - running around adv medding people as a cloaker. feeling like a soldier in a war utilizing his empire's technology as he wants. There's a lot of satisfaction in that too, not just in killing people. And that's another of the key points, it's going to feel like the game is just setting you up to do what it wants you to do, rather than dropping you in to a war simulator to respond to the environment (the balance mechanics, the enemy and your own skills) much more naturally.




I can take Football as an example. There are no "positions" in the rules of Football, just a set of conditions. But players naturally organize themselves into positions, Defenders, Midfielders, and Strikers (just like ps1 players organize themselves naturally into classes). However, these players (and the managers) change their positions and therefore their roles in the "war" of the football match to respond best to their skills, the conditions of the game, and the other team. And so you get all kinds of interesting types of players, such as Inside Forwards, Playmakers and 4-2-3-1 formations. If the rules, right from the start, said you can only line up with 4 defenders, 4 midfielders and 2 strikers in a 4-4-2, all those other interesting players would have been lost. In short, the game evolves organically out of its environment.

The same is true of PS1. Players organized themselves into classes naturally based on their skill, the balance conditions of the game, and the enemy. No classes were official and you'd get interesting niche's that spawned organically from the game's environment. Some people actually like playing their own roles and niches, and from the viewpoint of the game it looks great and natural. If you implement forced cookie-cutter classes, you kill all that, and the game feels much more mechanized, much less personal and
less tactically organic from a top view.


So yes, it is important me. PlanetSide 2 definitely does have loads to offer and some of the things the game is promising looks very very good. Customisation is neat. But We're talking about one of PS1's fundamental mechanics being changed, and that's why so many people have also voiced concern because they're aware of that - this isn't a light or unimportant subject.

[Raymac]

@texico - I see what you are saying. I truly do. But let's face some cold hard realities here. PS1 pretty much had a class system with its armor requirements. I mean what are Max units if not a class? If you really break it down, there is not a huge departure from what PS1 did and what PS2 is doing.

As for the players that liked to find their niche, A) let's face it, they are a very small minority, hence the niche. B) With the focus on the deep customization we've seen, I have a feeling those same players will be able to scratch that "I'm a unique snowflake" itch.

EDIT: Torres is a bitch, and REAL football (what you call American football) does have classes and is infinitly cooler ;)

[Hermes]

Some things we liked are removed, some other things are improved. Criticize, sure, but don't spoil the mood! Wait to see how they interact in beta...

...dude.

/forumrapbattle

[Neksar]

If it's that critical, then the system could end up becoming something like a 'weight' system, where players can carry x amount of stuff, with each item having its own weight, so long as they don't go over capacity. It doesn't bring back using your MAX suit as a storage unit, but at least you'd get to choose among ammo/grenades/medpacks again.

[FriendlyFire]

soccer

The thing is, no one plays, part-time Goalie, striker, etc, etc, etc, etc, at the same time. They meet their conditions, on the field, for their position, and play it.


PS2 will be the same.

[Rbstr]

I'm glad for classes and the nuance of balance it can bring. Can't cram in a fuck load a medkits or do nothing-but-'nades. It lets you balance not only on power but on availability.
Meaningful weapon customisation and real, worthwhile specialisation are weal worth not having to sit and play Tetris with ammo boxes.

I do hope they have retained some ability to selectively pick what you want in terms of the accoutrements. Like "Tick two of the following: Extra Nade, Extra Ammo, Extra medkit, Extra Rockets"

[Gammit10]

No longer will you get to be the ultimate Agile, HA, medic, engineer, mossie soldier. I welcome this change. More reliance on your buddies is a good thing.

[texico]

http://i42.tinypic.com/kub6a.jpg

This this this ;)

[Atheosim]

I just hope every non-max class has access to a sniper rifle.

[Mightymouser]

Can Bags, or someone go pulls some quotes? I'd do it but I don't have the time atm...

My understanding of the system (which may be wrong, hence the request for quotes) is that you'll choose a class, and then that class will incur some restrictions on what you can and cannot use. (al-la the Heavy Assault restrictions). However even within that class you can still choose your load outs, although you no longer have to deal with actually mapping them out in your inventory. (meaning you may still be able to choose 1 extra med pack versus an extra box of ammo, but instead of moving them around in your inventory it's a problem of weight, or total space, or some other quantitative limit)

If I am understanding the system correctly, that's not really 'cookie cutter' classes IMO. Cookie cutter classes means all the eng's have shot guns and 4 ACEs and a repair guns, ect. That's not what they are talking about; they are talking about Eng's can no longer run around with a Lasher on their back; instead they'll have to choose one of the lighter guns (indeed, they've made a new gun that is the 'heavier' MA option for classes which aren't allowed Heavy Assault) Whether this is a good change or not, I think we'll have to wait for beta. But I don't think this is quite similar to cookie cutter classes seen in games like the BF series, where they have already mapped out the inventories of every class in the game.

[sylphaen]

Why you guys have to start a thousand threads about the same topics ?

Anyways, to be short:
- to all who blame PS1 free-form inventory for one-man armies --> would you mind giving us your opinion about BR40 before assaulting the free-form inventory system ?
- concerning why PS2 has no inventory, I think it's simply to make things easier to scale/balance. Balance was complicated in PS1 because it was inter-dependant on armor restrictions (i.e. weapon size/inventory size), cert tree, max available cert points and empire-specific weapons. In PS2, they just need to adjust weapon stats.


Is it possible to merge threads ?

[Shotokanguy]

I bet if you went down the list of armor types you would find that people used incredibly similar load-outs for a given function. How many rexo guys were armor tool, med tool, HA, AV, box of AV ammo, few boxes of HA ammo, medkit or two, and maybe a jammer or something? Considering the classes can be customized in terms of weapons and certifications, I have a strong suspicion that this really isn't a loss of customization at all. In fact, there's probably even more customization on account of the old "do everything" rexo soldier having gone the way of the dodo.

Not a bad point. I never thought about that. If you were a grunt, you were probably always a Rexo using HA/MA and AV.

Heck, even lots of players running around in Agile didn't do anything different from the Rexo zerg.

[Saintlycow]

IMO, really depends on how many places we can customize.

The more places you can change things (ie 2 vs 4 utility slots) = better customization in my eyes. Of course, you need multiple gadgets to fill those slots

[Sik]

Don't really care, everyone basically used the same load out depending on the role they played.

The only thing that they could ever "copy" from other games that'd truly piss me off is "dead mans trigger"...How I hate you! :@

[EASyEightyEight]

Anyways, to be short:
- to all who blame PS1 free-form inventory for one-man armies --> would you mind giving us your opinion about BR40 before assaulting the free-form inventory system ?



BR20, one could access MA, HA, AV, Med, Engi, Rexo and that would cost only 18 cert points. There was most definitely room for a reaver, or a mossie, or a tank, or adv engi, or hacking, or what-have-you. The max total was 23 at the time (5 freebies at BR1.)

The first 6 certs were the key issue in the one man army however.

Planetside 2 removes the 18 cert rexo one-man-armies and grants everyone the every basic version of each vehicle in game without any or many prerequisites.. It's still not a one-man-army, because a tank can't do everything at once like PS1's foot zergers could. People equate "access to everything" as one man army, but no one pays attention to whether or not X the tank driver and a few minutes later Y the footzerger is in fact the exact same person.

What made someone a one man army was they had access to everything they needed at the same time. The adaptability was 100% for the ye ol' Rexo of PS1. Completely solo capable. The biggest issue with too much freedom is that people will inevitably find the path of least resistance or in this case, greatest efficiency, defeating the entire purpose of the system. Few strayed from this path.

Classes prevents the one man army and encourage team play. Anyone claiming total certs should be lowered or that costs should be higher just isn't getting it, or suggesting that if one equips X item, they can't equip Y item pretty much justified having a class system anyway.

[VioletZero]

Gee, it is almost as though this is a completely different game or something.

[Metalsheep]

BR20, one could access MA, HA, AV, Med, Engi, Rexo and that would cost only 18 cert points. There was most definitely room for a reaver, or a mossie, or a tank, or adv engi, or hacking, or what-have-you. The max total was 23 at the time (5 freebies at BR1.)

The first 6 certs were the key issue in the one man army however.

Planetside 2 removes the 18 cert rexo one-man-armies and grants everyone the every basic version of each vehicle in game without any or many prerequisites.. It's still not a one-man-army, because a tank can't do everything at once like PS1's foot zergers could. People equate "access to everything" as one man army, but no one pays attention to whether or not X the tank driver and a few minutes later Y the footzerger is in fact the exact same person.

What made someone a one man army was they had access to everything they needed at the same time. The adaptability was 100% for the ye ol' Rexo of PS1. Completely solo capable. The biggest issue with too much freedom is that people will inevitably find the path of least resistance or in this case, greatest efficiency, defeating the entire purpose of the system. Few strayed from this path.

Classes prevents the one man army and encourage team play. Anyone claiming total certs should be lowered or that costs should be higher just isn't getting it, or suggesting that if one equips X item, they can't equip Y item pretty much justified having a class system anyway.


Did you forget about BR 6-12-18? Where you DONT get any cert points? You had 20. So useing all 18 points on all that leave you with NO versatility, and no real fast vehicle that can farm softies. You still cant hack, move fast, revive teammates or lay CE or drive any meaningful vehicles. (besides the AMS)

BR 25 is what opened up the One Man Army loadout to more people. And now you can just have everything at BR40. The Cert Points were a major factor with the setups of players.

Edit- Also. Were the 5 free starting points always there? I've been playing Planetside so long i dont remember if we always had 5 starting points.

[Mightymouser]

At BR 20, you had 23 certs; When they stopped giving certs at 6-12-18 they moved those certs to BR1. It wasn't always like that, you used to get a cert point for every BR...

(ETA: here's Fayaz's cert calculator, if you want to double check. Just put in BR20: http://www.1cmm.net/ps/cert/)

[EASyEightyEight]

At BR 20, you had 23 certs; When they stopped giving certs at 6-12-18 they moved those certs to BR1. It wasn't always like that, you used to get a cert point for every BR...

(ETA: here's Fayaz's cert calculator, if you want to double check. Just put in BR20: http://www.1cmm.net/ps/cert/)

This. It used to be all new characters had MA by default, which was 2 cert points. Later on, when they made BR's 6, 12, and 18 implants only, those 3 certs moved into rexo upon character creation, so now a new character had MA and rexo by default, 5 points.

I think today we have 7 now: rexo, MA, ATV, harasser.

Either way, missed the whole damn point Metalsheep. The rexo trooper itself was the one-man-army. Everything else was practically a class unto itself. Planetside 2 just expands on those vehicles, truly making them essentially their own classes.

[CutterJohn]

I'm glad for classes and the nuance of balance it can bring. Can't cram in a fuck load a medkits or do nothing-but-'nades. It lets you balance not only on power but on availability.
Meaningful weapon customisation and real, worthwhile specialisation are weal worth not having to sit and play Tetris with ammo boxes.

I do hope they have retained some ability to selectively pick what you want in terms of the accoutrements. Like "Tick two of the following: Extra Nade, Extra Ammo, Extra medkit, Extra Rockets"

Oooh.. I hope they do this. The lack of ability to customize your ammo is one of the only issues I have with their current plans. Having an ammo pack that you fit into those spare slots would pretty much fix that.

[Sighpolice]

I'm not too bothered about losing the free form inventory or in fact the whole class system as a whole.. I'm slightly worried that the classes would be too restrictive with weapon choices..

I'm talking picking engineer/anti-vehicle and being forced to use a shitty SMG. I hate SMG's with a passion (off topic: it's like a in-between of rifle and pistol, trying to be a shotgun and gah.. the MP5 from bf 2 and CS:S were the only really good ones I've used), and most class bases games seem to do it to "balance out the engineer class".

I love my phoenix/gauss loadout and use it nearly all the time, and I particularly love being on a wall during base defence gunning down troops or keeping prowlers away.. My main worry is not being able to do that any more and instead trade my gauss in for a piece of shit gun cause apparently having a vehicle damaging rocket is too powerful or heavy or something.. No reason I couldn't equip a rifle

and tbh I don't think it would be OP because un-like other games the AV is AV only, so it's not like I'd be completely anti-inf and completely av.. Hell, I'm not even asking for HA weapons :/

I hope the weapon choices are good, that's all that worries me about the class systems

[Erendil]

I'm not too bothered about losing the free form inventory or in fact the whole class system as a whole.. I'm slightly worried that the classes would be too restrictive with weapon choices..

I'm talking picking engineer/anti-vehicle and being forced to use a shitty SMG. I hate SMG's with a passion (off topic: it's like a in-between of rifle and pistol, trying to be a shotgun and gah.. the MP5 from bf 2 and CS:S were the only really good ones I've used), and most class bases games seem to do it to "balance out the engineer class".

I love my phoenix/gauss loadout and use it nearly all the time, and I particularly love being on a wall during base defence gunning down troops or keeping prowlers away.. My main worry is not being able to do that any more and instead trade my gauss in for a piece of shit gun cause apparently having a vehicle damaging rocket is too powerful or heavy or something.. No reason I couldn't equip a rifle

and tbh I don't think it would be OP because un-like other games the AV is AV only, so it's not like I'd be completely anti-inf and completely av.. Hell, I'm not even asking for HA weapons :/

I hope the weapon choices are good, that's all that worries me about the class systems

I believe Engies will be able to get a carbine this time around. It's still not the same as a full-fledged assault rifle though so I share your concerns, regarding both weapon and armour restrictions for support classes.

For the first 6 years I played PS1 I had no Med certs, and no HA.. During this time, whenever I was defending a base this was almost always the loadout I used:

http://i540.photobucket.com/albums/gg331/Erendil69/Planetside%202/MAAVRpr3noMed.jpg

If I were to give this loadout a class label I would call it an Engie or Combat Engie, since I always had a gluegun on me to rep terms or the gen should they get destroyed. I certainly wouldn't call this a "one man army" loadout since there was no med app, no HA, and no CUD.

However, it appears this loadout is still not possible in PS2 since as an Engie I won't be able to use an assault rifle. In addition, I may not even be able to use PS2's Rexo-equivalent. Plus, since I'm now stuck using a carbine, if I sink certs into customizing it so its more tailored to my playstyle, and then I decide to play an Assault class for a bit so that I can don Rexo and pull a real assault rifle, am I going to have to relearn the same certs for this rifle that I did for the carbine? If so, then it seems that I'll have to essentially pay double the cert cost of a pure assault killwhore to get the same rifle customizations if I also want to spend time in a support class.

I know that I'm making a few assumptions in this post, but if they are correct it seems to me that from what we know of PS2's class system it's too restrictive for my tastes and seems to be a direct nerf to those people who like to play support roles. People are inherently self-serving and it's hard enough to get people to play support roles as it is without making them much less able to defend themselves.

EDIT: It also appears that certain "one man support army" setups are no longer possible either. So for example I can heal people, or repair terms/gens/etc, but not both? How is that good for the game?

[Erendil]

Double-post FTL.

[Traak]

Cookie cutter class restrictions?

For future reference, try to make your post title very indicative of the content of the post.