Char progression: Beta > Live

[Kaotc]

Will any advancements made by beta testers, be carried over to the game, or will there be a massacre and everyone starts from square one at launch?

obviously the latter is the fairest option to the suspected vast majority of people not selected/eligible for beta testing. however, it _could_ be construed as a reward for people who did beta test, if they were to get to keep their progression.


Thoughts?

[DaddyTickles]

Has there ever been a Beta which has carried over caracter stats to Live?

Genuine question. I've been in several betas and they were all scrubbed clean when Live launched.

[XPquant]

I have never seen progression carry over from beta's to gold.

[ThGlump]

Usually many bugs and balance changes will in beta, making it impossible or really unfair to bring your beta chars to live. Maybe last month of beta will be saved for live (since its f2p anyway), but before that expect many wipes during beta.

[Kaotc]

im not sure either, hence asking the question, its not fair to people that didnt get to beta test, but could be a reward for those that helped out with beta? i dunno.

i guess i also depends how they launch the game, being F2P will the basically just patch the game from beta to live, or will they stop the beta, then go for a proper launch.

[lolroflroflcake]

Will any advancements made by beta testers, be carried over to the game, or will there be a massacre and everyone starts from square one at launch?

obviously the latter is the fairest option to the suspected vast majority of people not selected/eligible for beta testing. however, it _could_ be construed as a reward for people who did beta test, if they were to get to keep their progression.


Thoughts?

I don't think the few extra toys the beta testers unlock over the few months of beta testing would hurt new players that much in a game where your ability to kill is based primarily off player skills and teamwork and not character progression. So why not, let the beta testers keep their character advancements.

[Kaotc]

the F2P model for me, does grey the lines of the launch, in that people wont have to buy it like they did for Battlefield, or any other game that ive played recently that has had an open/closed beta.

they could very easily go for a "soft" launch, where they just patch the game during maintenence, and boom, game is live. (i think this is what Tribes:Ascend will do, for example)

Traditionally with P2P games, the beta is stopped a short while before the actual launch of the game.

[TheRagingGerbil]

If the game is completely balanced and a day one newbie is just as effective at killing as a day 100 vet-beta tester, than it really shouldn't matter. But just to make everyone feel like they are on the level, everyone should start from scratch once beta is complete.

[Rbstr]

No.

I'd be pretty surprised if beta didn't have accelerated character progression in order to facilitate testing. Super unfair. How would they deal with cash store stuff? Are they going to make beta players pay out of pocket for it? Doesn't seem likely.
Now I could envision a reward of some scale for beta involvement. Special cosmetic stuff, maybe small stuff that's available to everyone anyway like a coupon for a free store item.

[Azren]

It will pretty much be an open beta, so there is no worry about latecommers.

That said however, I am very worried about possible exploits that kickstart characters, something that should not be present in live.

[Chaff]

Anyone who was in beta - should have a tail on their toon when PS2 officially launches open to the public.

Maybe a Beta player should have a choice of what to carry over into the real game;
a) tail
b) clown shoes
c) Hello Kitty shoulder patch
d) none of the above
e) all of the above

I'll take "c".
"e" is very tempting though.......


No xp or char dev should carry over.

[Tigersmith]

Im pretty sure this will be like tribes ascend and carry over from beta to live servers.

I can almost grantee that SOE will have a cash shop in Beta for players to use..What is the point of buying something in beta that will be erased when the game goes live.

Look for these characters to transfer from Beta to Live..


I also believe this game will mostly have a huge open beta stage..like it or not I think they will be transferred over.

p.s. - I could still be wrong.

[Cosmical]

Think the standard practice is giving people lil badges or titles saying I WAS IN BETA DONT YOU THINK THATS COOL!!

Plus so much of this game will be knowledge based, beta players will already have all the advantage they need to excel.

[Tigersmith]

Openly admitting this in the firefall public forums, Red5 CEO said they were going to wipe characters that bought things from the store and I am not 100% sure if they are going to be reimbursed except for extra XP. I am not buying shit from the store until there is an absolute confirmation from SOE that things bought in the store WILL carry over into gold.

As this is very possible too. This its just annoying for the consumer (I would be frustrated with this)..I hope SOE just makes the items carry over..or have the characters transfer from beta to live.

[BigBossMonkey]

Anyone who was in beta - should have a tail on their toon when PS2 officially launches open to the public.

Maybe a Beta player should have a choice of what to carry over into the real game;
a) tail
b) clown shoes
c) Hello Kitty shoulder patch
d) none of the above
e) all of the above

I'll take "c".
"e" is very tempting though.......


No xp or char dev should carry over.

Everyone in beta should get special Higby beard.

But I agree, nothing at all should carry over from beta to launch. It's just wrong.

[MilitantBob]

Maybe just start all beta participants at BR5 or something. Just a little bit of thanks for helping work the kinks out of their game.

[BigBossMonkey]

Maybe just start all beta participants at BR5 or something. Just a little bit of thanks for helping work the kinks out of their game.

Your thanks for working the kinks out of the game should be a nonbuggy game.

You shouldn't need any further rewards than that, and if you expect them, perhaps testing the beta is not for you.

(This applies to all beta tests, not just PS2)

[Bags]

Just names.

[BigBossMonkey]

Or do it like World of Tanks did it and give an allowance for station cash or maybe a temporary "ps2 cash" daily. I don't know how they could stop you from using it on other SOE games if they use station cash though... To me that seems it would be a good way to test their store and wipe the characters without pissing anyone off.

Just make all PS2 store items free during beta, and only last until the end of beta.

[Vancha]

It depends whether beta is a beta test or whether beta is more along the lines of what Minecraft did (considering the sheer number of the initial batch of beta keys, it could be either).

If the beta has any kind of exclusivity, then everything should be reset when things go live. An "I was in beta" merit or something would be appreciated, though.

[NEWSKIS]

Just make all PS2 store items free during beta, and only last until the end of beta.

This would make the most sense for ease of testing and the fact that if characters get wiped noone can really complain.

[ThGlump]

Maybe just start all beta participants at BR5 or something. Just a little bit of thanks for helping work the kinks out of their game.

Why everyone want a reward for being in beta? Its a voluntary choice to play and help devs to smash all the bugs and then have your progress erased. If you dont want to do it for free nobody is forcing you to do it. There are plenty others for that. And reward is that you can play in beta.

Just make all PS2 store items free during beta, and only last until the end of beta.

They need to test cash shop too. Not only bugs but prices too. Giving small amount of cash every week, they can see what will ppl buy with it and what feels overpriced/unnecessary.

[NEWSKIS]

They need to test cash shop too. Not only bugs but prices too. Giving small amount of cash every week, they can see what will ppl buy with it and what feels overpriced/unnecessary.

The only thing with that is if people get cash for free it wont show what people are willing to pay real money for. People will buy whatever because its free.

[ThGlump]

Not if they have limited amount of cash. Something to buy 1 item a week, or save 2-3 weeks for better item.

[Chaff]

.
MAYBE I'm "missing" something (besides some chromosones and a brain)
but isn't "Beta" all about TESTING gameplay ?

Free store during Beta - but no carry-over of anything else besides your toons "name".

I must be a bigger idiot than I thought - cuz I consider being "invited" into Beta to help improve a game I loved in its previous form as an honor or priveledge.

Yes to bags.....keep your toon name.

But, no Courtjester-J crap needed. Give Beta guys a token choice if you must - there could be a tiny "Beta" badge.

I don't care if future players know "I was in Beta". Whatever. I don't get that mentality at all. They can have the option of a little badge, colored laces on their boots, a beret, but keep it minimal. It doesn't make anoyone better to have been in Beta.

The sole reward (IMO) should be the fact you were lucky enough to be invited in.

BigBossMonkey hit my funny bone with the "Higby Beard" thing.

....give Beta guys the option of sporting a beard. It has a clock. You have 300 hours of playing time with your "HB" to let people know you're cooler than them cuz you wuz in Beta.

.....then, back to reality. You ain't no beta than anyone else.
.

[BigBossMonkey]

Why everyone want a reward for being in beta? Its a voluntary choice to play and help devs to smash all the bugs and then have your progress erased. If you dont want to do it for free nobody is forcing you to do it. There are plenty others for that. And reward is that you can play in beta.



They need to test cash shop too. Not only bugs but prices too. Giving small amount of cash every week, they can see what will ppl buy with it and what feels overpriced/unnecessary.

Thing is, this isn't SOEs first F2P game. I'm assuming they can have the prices work fine... Just make the things free during beta test to test the ITEMS from the shop.

Once beta is over, wipe it all out and put in the real prices.

[Chaff]

The only thing with that is if people get cash for free it wont show what people are willing to pay real money for. People will buy whatever because its free.


LIMIT their cash store - so they can't afford everything. Maybe they can uncert things (they tried / don't like) and then recert/try someting different.

I think the devs will figure out a way to "read the tea leaves" in this regard. You make a good point. But people have to be able to "try stuff".

These are the few advantages Beta guys might take away with them ..... WHAT WORKS vs what is simply cosmetic or cool sounding - but doesn't yield tangible results.

[TheRagingGerbil]

Just names.

^^^^ This is all the reward we should get.

[Coreldan]

Has there ever been a Beta which has carried over caracter stats to Live?

Genuine question. I've been in several betas and they were all scrubbed clean when Live launched.

APB had a short period of closed beta before it went to open beta where progress was saved, partially cos they started testing/using the cash shop during CB already, so it wouldve been quite bad to remove said items.

But as for the topic itself, I wouldnt expect to have anything carry over to live.

[Graywolves]

I wouldn't mind starting from scratch after beta. Things could be adjusted during/after beta if we got things too fast or too late.

Ultimatley I don't mind because it's an FPS. I doubt we'd feel a big sense of loss.

[Scrima]

I hope it's wiped and we are left with just a small cosmetic/badge as a thank you.

[basti]

There should be a wipe from closed to open beta, simply because a whole lot of new servers will appear with the start of open beta. Whats the point in keeping your character if it is on the wrong server?

[Marth Koopa]

All characters should be preserved but reset to BR1, so Beta players can keep their name, customization SAVES(you will need to reunlock to use them again), outfit associations, etc.

[Jimmuc]

in WoT beta they gave everyone 500 gold a day so perhaps SOE could give some station cash (whatever its called) per day to everyone so we can work the cash shop. :cool:

[Gandhi]

Has there ever been a Beta which has carried over caracter stats to Live?
Tribes: Ascend is doing it, you can already buy things from the cash shop so I guess it would cause quite an uproar if all that was wiped at the end of beta. Though I suppose the alternative would be to refund everything that was bought so you have it available again at release.

Carrying over is a big mistake in general because things related to progression will undoubtedly change during the beta. It's happened in Tribes already, things suddenly became much more 'expensive' to unlock which gives an obvious advantage to the people who unlocked things before the change.

[IronMole]

There should be a wipe from closed to open beta, simply because a whole lot of new servers will appear with the start of open beta. Whats the point in keeping your character if it is on the wrong server?

"Would you like to port your existing character to this server?"

[CidHighwind]

Its entirely likely that they will rotate the items in the cash shop (free to 'buy') simply to test each item as a stress test as well as a focused effort to work out kinks with individual weapons/additions. No purchases will be made, and beta testers will get a wonderful chance to 'try' before they need to buy them. This is good business.. if you encounter something you like and are given a chance to try it, you'll be more likely to say "HEY! I remember trying that during that beta, it was AWESOME! $2.50? SWEET, i'll buy that for the cool factor!"

[TrenchcoatNinja]

I definitely agree with most of the opinions in here, it would be a mistake to let all the beta testers stay OP while the scrubs stay scrubby (one might accuse SOE of hating the middle class)

But I'd like to have a nice little badge too, since customization will be a bigger part of this game, and perhaps some beta-exclusive outfits? (I don't mean in terms of armor) Created by the testers of course.

[Yetiee]

hats with lazorrrrrrssss!!1!:D

[Espion]

As soon as money is involved a char reset is out of the question. No one is going to buy an XP Booster if their XP is being reset in a month or so, and there will definitely be a cash shop in beta.

It will be the same as Tribes and Firefall, just a gradual transition from closed beta --> open beta --> live.

[SKYeXile]

Wipe everything, no need for debate on this IMO.

[DayOne]

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lx5lqyG19e1qaa7gwo1_400.jpg

[DayOne]

As soon as money is involved a char reset is out of the question. No one is going to buy an XP Booster if their XP is being reset in a month or so, and there will definitely be a cash shop in beta.

It will be the same as Tribes and Firefall, just a gradual transition from closed beta --> open beta --> live.

Keep track of what everyone bought, then give it to them again at launch.

[EASyEightyEight]

This debate really comes down to what SOE does with the beta. Closed to open beta, definitely a wipe. Always. Exclusive access vs. anyone can access after all.

Open beta is a different beast however. Open beta is more of a marketing stunt anymore. Encourage players to join, they like what they're experiencing, they tell their friends, even more people show up, those people like what they see, they tell even more of their friends, etc.

Now, Planetside being Planetside, a lot of $#!% can still go down between day 1 open beta and "launch." Balance is always a key issue, and well into live will remain a key issue. Someone will always find a way to abuse the virtual crap out of something, taking it from balanced to OP. If it was under powered, it now just has a use.

Either way, weapons balance isn't something to wipe over. That's going to happen through out PS2's life. Introducing a new attachment could very well call for rebalancing of all rifles. Things like cert training though, THAT might be worth a wipe. If a skill goes from requiring 4 days to 2 weeks to train, for example, it isn't exactly fair for the late arrivals to suffer the 2 weeks duration when early testers got away with just 4 days training, however, adjustments like these won't be exclusive to an open beta.

There's also the myth that at launch a magical patch is released that solves all of the betas problems. This is horrendously wrong. Hotfixes are applied to game breaking bugs, and they do bring a myriad of other bugs because well... little no time spent testing (that's essentially what a hotfix is expected to accomplish.) However, most bug fixes and balance tweaks are planned well in advance, and they'll persist all through beta and live.

In my opinion, a wipe between open beta and release is only necessary if SOE makes some pretty sweeping changes in areas that make portions of the game fundamentally more tedious is different, like the order of skills one trains into. A tier two skill may move to the fifth tier, but people only 3 tiers in already have that skill trained, now what? Do they remove it from the players and tell them too bad?

Otherwise, if all we see during open beta are simple weapons balance tweaks and a few minor fixes to bugs that caused doors to not open all the time, one has to ask what's the difference between the open beta ANYONE can sign up and play and retail where again, ANYONE can sign up and play? "Open beta" seems kind of pointless for an F2P. It's essentially just a different status or phase the game is filed under.

[Zulthus]

Uh, your "reward" is being invited to the beta. That's all. Consider yourself lucky if you get in.

[Sirisian]

I don't see the problem with keeping progress really. Tribes Ascend did this and it didn't affect anything. Everything is time/money based (except of the whole playing makes you level slightly faster) so people can just pay money somehow to "catch" up. Also keeping progress is a good incentive to keep people playing all the way through beta and into launch. Would be odd if we hit max level during beta though.

[Brusi]

Keep track of what everyone bought, then give it to them again at launch.

Or supply credit for the cash shop to the same value as was spent.

Items from the cash shop wil undoubtedly be re-balanced and might not suit the playstyle or tastes of the person who bought them by the time beta is closed.

[DayOne]

Or supply credit for the cash shop to the same value as was spent.

Items from the cash shop wil undoubtedly be re-balanced and might not suit the playstyle or tastes of the person who bought them by the time beta is closed.

So what if you bought a camo and it was deemed very useful to have to they double the price from £1 to £2? Not much but if you'd already bought the item and enjoyed using it then it's only fair that you get that item back, even if it's cheaper.

Unless the item is completely removed of course.

[razor851]

No.

[Hamma]

There should be a wipe no question imo. Far to much changes in beta anyway the reason there are always wipes is because of game changes, coding changes and all that Jazz.

Everyone should start fresh on Day 1.

[Hamma]

Why in the world would they do that in beta?

IF they were to do that.. they certainly would not be doing it throughout all of beta. Then you get into an "early access" scenario like games like SWTOR and BF3 have done.

Also if they do in fact do it that way, which would be very odd I'm sure that you will get whatever you bought in beta after live is released.

[ShazMyBot]

If the Auraxian Shopping Network is open during the beta, I'm bound to buy at least one cosmetic thing.

As long as that cosmetic thing is bound to my account and not my character, I see no problem with a server wipe before launch.

[SKYeXile]

Why in the world would they do that in beta?

IF they were to do that.. they certainly would not be doing it throughout all of beta. Then you get into an "early access" scenario like games like SWTOR and BF3 have done.

Most F2P games have their item shop open in "beta" to test it, at this point though the games more or less live, because once people have paid for things, they wont wipe characters, IMO if they do they they should just be saying its released in the first place.

[Hamma]

Well yea agreed in Late beta they may open it and start charging. But during beta I just cannot see them charging people for items, it needs to be "Open" aka "Free" in order to test the various items in the shop to make sure they work as intended.

Chars should be wiped clean for release so that everyone can start on the same foot.

[SKYeXile]

Well yea agreed in Late beta they may open it and start charging. But during beta I just cannot see them charging people for items, it needs to be "Open" aka "Free" in order to test the various items in the shop to make sure they work as intended.

Chars should be wiped clean for release so that everyone can start on the same foot.

yea, especially with offline leveling, not fair for somebody to be behind just because of the date they got into beta.

[DayOne]

Well yea agreed in Late beta they may open it and start charging. But during beta I just cannot see them charging people for items, it needs to be "Open" aka "Free" in order to test the various items in the shop to make sure they work as intended.

Disregard health, acquire camos.

[Espion]

yea, especially with offline leveling, not fair for somebody to be behind just because of the date they got into beta.


That's sort of interesting. If it were done so that all offline leveling was reset, but anything achieved through actually playing was retained (along with purchases being reset, i.e if you buy a 30 day boost in beta get another 30 days at release), I think that'd be the best system to go with.



For anyone not playing FF or TA, a "release" probably still sounds like a big deal. That's not how it works anymore with F2P games. TA is officially in closed beta, but it's pretty much a released game with constant updates/changes/improvements. This is how PS2 will be, during beta everyone will play it as if it's a released game, and even the people voting for a reset here will be incredibly pissed off when/if all of their playtime (potentially 100s or 1000s of hours) is negated at an arbitrary date. Not encouraging the highest level of play from day1 would hurt beta testing more than anything, you don't want people fucking around "because it's just a beta", that will end up reflecting on the "finished" product in a very negative way.

[Hmr85]

Start everybody over at square one come launch. My only thing I would say they should allow players to keep is any cosmetic stuff they paid for during beta.

[SKYeXile]

Start everybody over at square one come launch. My only thing I would say they should allow players to keep is any cosmetic stuff they paid for during beta.

yup, no reason why anything brought in beta could not be carried over to live, just all EXP/certs and resources would be reset.

[TheSHiFT]

Complete wipe. Bought something in beta? Refund the money.

[Coreldan]

What APB did was when they tested the cash shop in beta was that they gave this 100% refund promo, but it wasnt refunded in money, but in points. But not just that, you could keep what you had bought. It was especially handy to buy the premium at that time, cos it persisted over the wipes.

So, I put in 50€, bought myself like 6+ months of premium, got 50€ worth of G1 points refunded, which I then slowly used as they added new stuff in it.

So that's what might happen, refund of station cash, most likely not as money.

[Mirror]

the poll seems a little one sided.

[Coreldan]

I havnt voted cos the options are too black and white. Do I want progression to carry over? Not really. Do I want everyone to start from square one at live? Not totally necessary either. Do I mind something carrying over? No, some stuff like visual things and cash shop items I dont mind carrying over.

[Kaotc]

the issue i see is: are they going to have an official launch, or do a soft launch from beta to live.

if it is the former, then a reset is very likley.
if it is the latter, then a reset is very unlikley.

given the game is Free 2 Play, i cannot see them pulling the game offline, and then going for a 'launch'

[NewSith]

Though I would be in such a pain to see my character wiped, I understand that giving an unfair "beta participation" advantage gives nothing, but bad publicity. Plus there may be some exploits and bugs in beta that may boost your leveling.

I can only suggest making first stages of beta a general bugfinding/balancing stage, so every created character starts at maximum level. Then after the first wipe you can remove the max-level char creation to test character progression and start solving some more delicate issues. Personally I don't understand why nobody makes it like that, though it's far more efficient.

[SpLiTNuTz]

Just names.

^

[EVILPIG]

Wow, the things people ask for.

[ringring]

Wow, the things people ask for.
Shy bairns get nowt :D

[Shogun]

did soe ever give a statement about selling stuff during beta? have they done so in other betas?
i did some betas who sold stuff and they all did softlaunches ant took everything over into fullgame. some other betas gave out virtual shopmoney during beta to test the shop. those betas tend to wipe at launch.
so if ps2 sells things and only grants the normal way of ingame advancement without magical testing levelups, i see no problem with keeping the chars. after all every empire would get their share of beta players, so there is no unfair advantage. you don´t wipe all players everytime someone new comes to the game, so why do it with the testers?

it´s another thing if during beta there are skillterminals where we can draw skills and certs for free, like the skill-frogs during starwars galaxies jtl beta.

[EASyEightyEight]

I'm still greatly amused by the ignorance of people on betas. Open betas are now publicity stunts people. Sure, there WILL be some adjustments and tweaks to features here and there, but that WILL happen long after release too. Do we completely wipe everything then as well? No. If everyone starts clean upon open betas start, the only people late comers have to blame are themselves. Again, we're not going to wipe everyone's progress every month so the new guys can play on precisely even footing, right?

Too many people aren't thinking this through. They're just going "it's beta, so it should wipe!" while assuming some magical fix-all patch will release just prior to launch that completely balances the game and fixes all bugs.

It doesn't work like that. Ever.

SOE probably already has their minds set on how they'll handle OB > release however. We'll see what they do when the time comes, just brace yourselves for OB > release to feel no different from one day to the next.

EDIT: To add, a wipe makes sense if they intentionally buff training times, but I'd bet that would be a closed beta thing. Can't get any more open for a closed beta when the only requirement to getting in is buying a magazine off a news stand, or like with TERA's case, simply pre-ordering the game.