Resolved - PS2 Region

[ThGlump]

Nobody really gives a shit about what company is running what in what location, as long as it's not region-locked. Which, at the moment it is.

I give a shit. For me it matters more what company is running servers and services, than some region locking. Region lock pisses me only because it could hinder me from running from pro7 zone.

[Shanesan]

I give a shit. For me it matters more what company is running servers and services, than some region locking. Region lock pisses me only because it could hinder me from running from pro7 zone.

Well boss, I'm glad you read the FAQ (http://forums.station.sony.com/station/posts/list.m?topic_id=11500038788) which states plainly:

Who will host and manage the servers, ProSiebenSat.1 Games or SOE?

SOE will continue to host and manage the European servers for all games under this agreement.

[sylphaen]

I do not get the point of that ping talk... No one will suffer player with 400 ping 365 days a year when a better alternative is available. Unplayable is unplayable and no one likes playing on unplayable servers.

If Planetside 2 is SUCCESSFUL, there will be MANY servers. There will also be thousands of new players. Think forward and large. Like Basti, I hope for Euros that the ProSieben guys are serious about becoming a powerhouse in gaming. If they make it right this time, imagine all the opportunities that will open to their business and to their customers !

On player-side, given the possibility to choose between servers and correct information (i.e. ping, population, empire needs), player populations will even themselves out.

Those choosing a specific geographic server will be a minority and will have reasons to do so instead of going for performance (community, workshift, etc...). Furthermore, if an large outfit joining an empire does not unbalance that server, there is no reason to see communities put at risk worldwide server infrastructure of a SUCCESSFUL AAA title.


At best, the SOE/ProSieben deal should be limited to who you pay your bills to and the rest of the choices left to the players. People love freedom.


Which side ? PLANETSIDE !
:lol:

[Gandhi]

It's already happened that EU punished some US company for moving data to third parties without informing and gathering the consensus from the costumers.
We are talking about xxx.000 € fees...
EU has a very strict policy on this kind of stuff.

Actually if you read the FAQ carefully you'll have to make a new account at ProSieben then ask SOE to transfer the relevant information to it (namely your game characters and whatever Station bucks you still have). They're being very careful to set it up so that you have to ask them to transfer the information so they don't run into the legal problems you mentioned.


Will account information be shared with ProSiebenSat.1 Games?
No personal information will be shared. We will offer a simple way for any current SOE European player to create a new account with ProSiebenSat.1 Games and to have their existing characters and game progress transferred and the value of any Station Cash in their SOE account granted to the new ProSiebenSat.1 Games account.

[ThGlump]

Well boss, I'm glad you read the FAQ (http://forums.station.sony.com/station/posts/list.m?topic_id=11500038788) which states plainly:

Dont worry i red it well. All about being forced to have different account, different forum, different customer support, different shop, eu only special items etc. Those are things that can easily ruin game, if you do it badly. And they dont have that experience, and where they have some, it only lowers their credibility.

[sylphaen]

Those are things that can easily ruin game, if you do it badly. And they dont have that experience, and where they have some, it only lowers their credibility.

Oh yes, that stuff definitely goes both ways. If ProSieben fucks it up, they may reach terrible levels of reputation with European gamers. And for a long time to come.

[Duddy]

Obviously it would be preferable to have the alternative to make everyone happy. But if one had to be chosen, I''d argue for the gameplay because of all the new players. I think what a lot of people miss is that there are so many new fans that will want to play this game and won't tolerate more lag than on other FPS like Battlefield or CoD.

If PS2 doesn't cater to these new people who will populate the servers, there won't be much of a community. We'll have PS1 sized pops, which in the new game will feel much like PS1 does now: barren.

I think that from being used to 150+ pings, it's easy to dismiss the concern, but most PC gamers end up choosing games that feel right and then join a community, rather than following their community from game to game.

Good points on the new player scenario, and you're right that I do have bias in playing with high ping (heck, even used to play CS:S with that).

I do question however; would we have the same net effect (perhaps worse) if a new player accidentally chose to play on an international server (unaware of the repercussions of higher latency) as opposed to having higher ping players on their local server? Given that higher latency affects an individual more than others.

I must admit, I don't like the international server option because it just separates our user base even more, and that would be bad for EU and US. Perhaps not an issue if we have a high enough population across the board, but a concern nonetheless.

So much of this is unclear until we see things in action, bring on beta eh?

[jakaul]

All the stuff aside, I'll say that I'm actually really encouraged by the responses from Higby and Smedley. It seems like they do give a shit about the game, and that's something I'm incredible appreciative of.

[Shanesan]

All the stuff aside, I'll say that I'm actually really encouraged by the responses from Higby and Smedley. It seems like they do give a shit about the game, and that's something I'm incredible appreciative of.

We all know that Higby really wants this game to succeed - this is his baby. He's been working way too long to have someone come and shit on it. Sadly, he does not have complete creative control over Planetside - he reports to Smedley.

Smedley is notorious for coming into a situation and shitting all over it. He does not care about the games or the player base. You can see it in updates of all SoE games from day one.

That is my major concern.

[The Desert Fox]

53 Pages in 2 days, daaaaaaaaammmnnnn. I do believe this thread takes the title on this one.

[ThGlump]

53 Pages in 2 days, daaaaaaaaammmnnnn. I do believe this thread takes the title on this one.

Yea we dont care about game enough. Look at EQ2. They care. 120 pages in 2 days :)

[Vancha]

Obviously it would be preferable to have the alternative to make everyone happy. But if one had to be chosen, I''d argue for the gameplay because of all the new players. I think what a lot of people miss is that there are so many new fans that will want to play this game and won't tolerate more lag than on other FPS like Battlefield or CoD.

If PS2 doesn't cater to these new people who will populate the servers, there won't be much of a community. We'll have PS1 sized pops, which in the new game will feel much like PS1 does now: barren.

I think that from being used to 150+ pings, it's easy to dismiss the concern, but most PC gamers end up choosing games that feel right and then join a community, rather than following their community from game to game.
I think you'd be surprised how many communities move from game to game as a group. There's also far more chance of someone playing a game for the long-haul if they arrive with a community as opposed to having to find a new one to fit into. Not to mention there's only so many communities you can really be involved in at one time...

I don't believe it's so, but if they really are unable to support something as fundamental to an MMOFPS as international communities, I'd go as far as to say Planetside 2 is still too far ahead of it's time.

[GTGD]

Good points on the new player scenario, and you're right that I do have bias in playing with high ping (heck, even used to play CS:S with that).

I do question however; would we have the same net effect (perhaps worse) if a new player accidentally chose to play on an international server (unaware of the repercussions of higher latency) as opposed to having higher ping players on their local server? Given that higher latency affects an individual more than others.

I must admit, I don't like the international server option because it just separates our user base even more, and that would be bad for EU and US. Perhaps not an issue if we have a high enough population across the board, but a concern nonetheless.

So much of this is unclear until we see things in action, bring on beta eh?

I understand the concern about the playerbase being spread out, but honestly I'd be worried more about the servers being over-congested. Assuming the game is F2P and you can run it on current or recent hardware, I can easily see traffic issues. Even if each server supports 10,000 players at once, it is entirely possible that they could be maxed out.

But yes...damn it we need the beta...

[Mirror]

I understand the concern about the playerbase being spread out, but honestly I'd be worried more about the servers being over-congested. Assuming the game is F2P and you can run it on current or recent hardware, I can easily see traffic issues. Even if each server supports 10,000 players at once, it is entirely possible that they could be maxed out.

But yes...damn it we need the beta...

Until we know more its difficult.

Lets say each server has 10 conts like PS1 that would mean that the server would need to hold at least 6660 people. Planetside 2 currently has 28,000 likes on facebook lets go with that number. Lets say 1/3 of those 28,000 are euros so Europe would need at least 2 servers and the the US would need at least 4 maybe 5 servers.

Of course their could be 15 conts or 50,000 people that want to play the game at release but that kind of gives you an idea.

As for Traffic issues, I just dont see it. Wow servers and SWTOR servers are capped at somewhere between 5000 and 7000 players I think and apart from a queue to login there isnt really any problems with traffic. SOE is just as experienced as Blizzard and Bio-ware/EA at releasing MMOs.

[Sta]

Obviously it would be preferable to have the alternative to make everyone happy. But if one had to be chosen, I''d argue for the gameplay because of all the new players. I think what a lot of people miss is that there are so many new fans that will want to play this game and won't tolerate more lag than on other FPS like Battlefield or CoD.

If PS2 doesn't cater to these new people who will populate the servers, there won't be much of a community. We'll have PS1 sized pops, which in the new game will feel much like PS1 does now: barren.

I think that from being used to 150+ pings, it's easy to dismiss the concern, but most PC gamers end up choosing games that feel right and then join a community, rather than following their community from game to game.

I think you'd be surprised how many communities move from game to game as a group. There's also far more chance of someone playing a game for the long-haul if they arrive with a community as opposed to having to find a new one to fit into. Not to mention there's only so many communities you can really be involved in at one time...

I don't believe it's so, but if they really are unable to support something as fundamental to an MMOFPS as international communities, I'd go as far as to say Planetside 2 is still too far ahead of it's time.

Clans which decide to move to a certain game will leave as a clan when game sucks! I can say that from experience I also find it odd to leave clan in such a scenario. In this case It's more the psychological aspect of behaviour in groups which forces individuals to leave a game...

Theres also a second type of clans which will be created during time after a certain game is released.. There I agree that most people will stay with the game even when most people of their clan leave coz game sucks..
In the recent mmo failures like star trek online or swtor Ive also experienced a high population of totally crappy clans/guilds which recruit like mad and die within a week...

[Vancha]

Clans which decide to move to a certain game will leave as a clan when game sucks!
If it really sucks, then yeah, but many a flawed game has been enjoyed due to people playing with their community *cough* Planetside *cough*

[Tapman]

I feel sorry for the folks who have to moderate this shitstorm.

In two days one thread has created over 1% of the total amount of posts across 1,897 total threads since 2009, not even counting the amount of posts that have probably been removed.

I am curious to know if any of our VIP's have read every page.

[Shanesan]

Until we know more its difficult.

Lets say each server has 10 conts like PS1 that would mean that the server would need to hold at least 6660 people.

Your calculations are too short-sighted.

666 people per faction per continent.

10 continents.

666 * 3 factions = 1998 people per continent.

1998 people * 10 continents = 19,980 people per server cluster.

[Mastachief]

My Outfit celebrates it 10th anniversary this year, we have some Americans, Australians and russians. The outfit plays a vast array of games but has a core leadership group based out of planetside. We have 248members and it is likely that all would have an interest in planetside 2 but we are a very cautious bunch and wont like leaving any members out.

[Hamma]

I feel sorry for the folks who have to moderate this shitstorm.

In two days one thread has created over 1% of the total amount of posts across 1,897 total threads since 2009, not even counting the amount of posts that have probably been removed.

I am curious to know if any of our VIP's have read every page.

Hasn't been to bad overall.

I think moderating the various official forum threads is a harder job. :lol:

We have less rules around here.

There are 22 deleted posts in this thread ;)

[VioletZero]

I feel sorry for the folks who have to moderate this shitstorm.

In two days one thread has created over 1% of the total amount of posts across 1,897 total threads since 2009, not even counting the amount of posts that have probably been removed.

I am curious to know if any of our VIP's have read every page.

If anything, I'd feel sorry for the people who are trying to get SOE to un-region lock the servers but are going to get stonewalled. And then after that, they're going to have to face the crowd and tell them that they failed to change SOE's mind on the subject.

[ItsTheSheppy]

I wonder if there is a single person at SOE reading any of this and thinking, "Hm. Well. This may be a problem."

[RadarX]

I feel sorry for the folks who have to moderate this shitstorm.

In two days one thread has created over 1% of the total amount of posts across 1,897 total threads since 2009, not even counting the amount of posts that have probably been removed.

I am curious to know if any of our VIP's have read every page.

Yes I have. Not only is it part of my job, but it's important to ensure we have a full view of the feedback provided.

[Shanesan]

Yes I have. Not only is it part of my job, but it's important to ensure we have a full view of the feedback provided.

You know, you're kind of awesome.

http://i.imgur.com/9z4Qg.jpg

B-but it's not like I like you o-or anything.

[Kran De Loy]

Has the talks today between SOE and ProSeib Games shown any improvement in terms of international servers being possible?

Even if they were progressing well, don't ya think that Smed would want to be the one to say so?
Would be stepping on some pretty important toes to beat him to the punch.

[KALU]

Sorry if this has been posted already but pictures speak a thousand words!

http://www.blogcdn.com/massively.joystiq.com/media/2012/02/cheesepirate-soepss1-1330007715.jpg

http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/02/23/soe-responds-to-prosiebensat-1-fiasco-says-its-not-a-done-deal/#comments

[RadarX]

I know this is completely inappropriate to ask you, but it does deal with the thread topic at hand and I really don't expect an answer, but it would be awesome to this community if you could give any insight without getting in trouble.

Has the talks today between SOE and ProSeib Games shown any improvement in terms of international servers being possible?

Unfortunately I cannot comment more than we already have. These decisions are made at a very high level and affect all of our products. All I can do is reiterate what has already been stated. We are listening and in discussions with Prosieben over our products to explore options.

We will continue to ask for everyone's patience and constructive feedback.

[CutterJohn]

Unfortunately I cannot comment more than we already have. These decisions are made at a very high level and affect all of our products. All I can do is reiterate what has already been stated. We are listening and in discussions with Prosieben over our products to explore options.

We will continue to ask for everyone's patience and constructive feedback.

Can you give out any addresses? I have some extra TP.. :D

[Sirisian]

https://twitter.com/#!/j_smedley/status/172915828226920448
We are working on a plan to insure we don't split the communities up. More info to follow. - Smedley

[Higby]

I wonder if there is a single person at SOE reading any of this and thinking, "Hm. Well. This may be a problem."

Several people reading this thread, in fact!

[Kran De Loy]

Several people reading this thread, in fact!

Does us a favor and either you or Smed go to the guy that set up the segregation and smack him in the back of the head.

It'd be much appreciated.

And if he's higher up than Smed on the chain get the COE of Sony to do it instead.

http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_le68f4Ne7Z1qfj8dvo1_500.gif

[BigBossMonkey]

Does us a favor and either you or Smed go to the guy that set up the segregation and smack him in the back of the head.

It'd be much appreciated.

And if he's higher up than Smed on the chain get the COE of Sony to do it instead.

http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_le68f4Ne7Z1qfj8dvo1_500.gif

Pretty sure he doesn't wanna get fired.

I'll do it though.

[Kran De Loy]

Pretty sure he doesn't wanna get fired.

Is why you get the guy's direct superior to do it.
It's not like he should video it and put it on hte internet. That's actually to much.
Besides, everyone gotta be thinking of wanting to do it anyway.

[Fenrys]

At least SOE and Alaplaya have their story straight:

http://en.alaplaya.net/forum/general-discussion-f2906/soe-prosiebensat1-games-partnership-faq-t492961-s100.html#p5218844
And regarding IP-Lock and account-concerns: We are currently in discussion with SOE about that and might come up with a solution all SOE-Players will like.

http://en.alaplaya.net/forum/general-discussion-f2906/soe-prosiebensat1-games-partnership-faq-t492961-s40.html#p5217996
This topic is currently being discussed internally and at SOE. I can't tell you all the detials now, but I hope that we are able to loose some restrictions...So for all existing SOE-Players: We are trying hard to find a solution that you don't get seperated.

I'm willing to believe there are some complicated legal and technical issues that may need to be worked through one game at a time.

I'm willing to give them a week or 2 before starting the shit talking outside this forum.

Feedback about the progress that has been made so far would help ease my troubled mind.

[RodenyC]

ProSieben - Response to Your Feedback! Friends, As we approach the weekend, we wanted to share that we are working on a plan to keep our communities together with the ProSieben deal. Again, we thank you for your patience - we'll provide more information as soon as it is available. [~Brasse]
That's from facebook.Good news to me.They are listening.

[Fenrys]

Hundreds of years worth of EQ2 subscription cancellations (http://eq2wire.com/2012/02/23/soe-eq2-community-team-deletes-100s-of-posts-bans-dozens-over-prosieben-feedback/) may have helped things along :p

[RodenyC]

Hundreds of years worth of EQ2 subscription cancellations (http://eq2wire.com/2012/02/23/soe-eq2-community-team-deletes-100s-of-posts-bans-dozens-over-prosieben-feedback/) may have helped things along :p

Well thats good.They needed a wake up call on that.

[Lonehunter]

Nice to see they're working on it

[Yago]

Several people reading this thread, in fact!

Thanks for posting Higby .

[Coreldan]

I too would like to again and randomly thank Higby for taking the time to reply to this issue as well as fe. the hovering thread as well as all the other threads he responds to!

I wish the NDA wouldnt be so strict, I bet you'd like to tell us a lot of fancy things! :D

[Canaris]

Hundreds of years worth of EQ2 subscription cancellations (http://eq2wire.com/2012/02/23/soe-eq2-community-team-deletes-100s-of-posts-bans-dozens-over-prosieben-feedback/) may have helped things along :p

damn and I thought the Planetside crewz were militant.... :huh:
Some very blatantly untrue things in the article but as they say the truth is usually the first causality

Glad to see SOE is working hard to address our concerns

[Dale]

Another update from one of the alaplaya mods:

Before weekend we will not have an answer. Sorry about it but the Technicans needs to figure out things first.
If the idea works out we will have no barriers for everyone but we need to see and wait what is possible.

Before abandon and run away I would wait as the idea we have in mind really solves a lot.

[ringring]

Good.

I feel better.

[Shade Millith]

Before weekend we will not have an answer. Sorry about it but the Technicans needs to figure out things first.
If the idea works out we will have no barriers for everyone but we need to see and wait what is possible.

Before abandon and run away I would wait as the idea we have in mind really solves a lot.

They better have a damn good solution.

This is completely and utterly unacceptable. Not just for PS2, but for all their other MMO's.

This is a massive kick in the teeth of everyone that plays their games.

[Frisby]

http://en.alaplaya.net/forum/general-discussion-f2906/soe-prosiebensat1-games-partnership-faq-t492961-s40.html#p5217996

This topic is currently being discussed internally and at SOE. I can't tell you all the detials now, but I hope that we are able to loose some restrictions...So for all existing SOE-Players: We are trying hard to find a solution that you don't get seperated.


Well, it might be just me, but reading this has my bullshit-sensors tingling. First this posting more or less confirms that they had severe restriction planned in the first place, second it reveals that they are still trying to cling to their restrictive approach (loose "some" restrictions / "existing" SOE players) and third it shows that they are definetly failing to understand what this is all about (at least for me). I do not want some (half-assed) solution for the "existing SOE-players" that may allow us to stay together, but what I want and what PS2 needs imho is a solid ground for it's international community to stand and grow on.

It would not be a solution to allow „existing SOE players“ to play on US servers or vice versa, this may appease the current players for the moment but it is just a prolonged death. Even a solid outfit with a good core of players needs new influx of players over the years of play and you can only achieve this by having a chance to recruit new ones for different time-zones and peak-times. What PS2 needs are international / unrestricted servers that are labeled that way and stay that way for the years to come. They are for the players that are willing to sacrifice their uber-low-ping-time for the joy of playing with a international group of players and really having a (more or less) non-stop war waging over the continents of auraxis.

I can understand the problems that such servers may cause and that they may not offer the same "FPS-experience" that SOE seems to aim for, but looking at the outcry that the SOE/Pro7Sat1 approach to things has caused not only here but all over the different SOE games, it might be, that your approach is simply too narrow minded in perspective to your player base. I can only appeal to SOE and Pro7Sat1 to really rethink their decisions and come up with a solution as the one I described above for all their games and especially for PS2.

And as a last note, that is not meant as a threat just as a reminder (as it seems to me that it is sometimes too easily forgotten in the mazes of the business towers): Keep in mind that we are the ones paying you and that you hope to keep paying you even with a F2P game.


Doh, seems I should have refreshed the thread before posting:

Before weekend we will not have an answer. Sorry about it but the Technicans needs to figure out things first.
If the idea works out we will have no barriers for everyone but we need to see and wait what is possible.

Before abandon and run away I would wait as the idea we have in mind really solves a lot.

I hope that really is the way they are going and they stay true to this.

[Wakken]

Before weekend we will not have an answer. Sorry about it but the Technicans needs to figure out things first.
If the idea works out we will have no barriers for everyone but we need to see and wait what is possible.

Before abandon and run away I would wait as the idea we have in mind really solves a lot.

Wouldnt that technically mean we wouldnt need to create new accounts for ProSieben if we live in EU? :bouncy:

[Mastachief]

Localised servers are very welcome but they must be accessible to all. Lots of people have already said it.

Some North American players like to play with Europeans on a euro server because :
*Work Schedules
*Culture differences
*Game play style differences
*Long established online friendship
*Military serving in Euro countries

(this of course goes the same for euro players on U.S servers)

While some international servers in say Iceland or London would be cool this does not really bother me.

Other concerns are:
*Pro7 cashshop prices. Say my noobhammer of death costs $20 in the soe shop i don't want it to cost me £20 in the pro7 shop or for that matter £30. (current £/$ rate is 1.5)

*Credit/debit card details, Pro7 have a worse record than SOE for losing these it seems.

*What happens to any purchased items should pro7 shut the server down.

*The subject of patches, updates, testserver, dev feedback and expansions. Do we get them/access to them, what will the localisation timeframe be? 1-2hours / 1-2days / 1-2weeks / months.

- Development feedback and interaction, so far the level of interaction with the SOE Planetside 2 dev team has been unprecedented for such a large and important studio. I would hate that us Europeans as 2nd class customers would miss out on the future of this.

-Beta, I have always suspected that Europeans would miss out on beta and i think in the light of this deal i would like some reassurance that we will not miss out on such an important part of our games development.


-I have alot of fond memories not to mention input from the test server in the early years it will be a great shame if its a north american only feature.

[Shogun]

great that the everquest players freak out as hard as we do!

i think eq2 was more successful then planetside, so a boycott on this game may really be a punishment!
ps1 accounts cancelled don´t do any impact because the game was going to die when ps2 beta starts anyways. who would pay sub for an old game when the successor is free to play?

hamma, could you make a locked thread and edit in the news we get from soe and pro7? this thread here is hard to follow with all the ranting between the constructive posts.

so if they really sort out the server restrictions, there are still some concerns left we could use info on!

---------

will we eu players with soe account be able to use this account, or are we forced to transit to pro7?
because soe already has my personal information, but i don´t want to give that information to any additional companys and especially not to one that doesn´t seem to care about being hacked. sony and soe have surely learnt their lesson about security, because another hackerincident like the one last year would kill any confidence. pro7 may be one of the next target companys for the hackers, and they got no experience to fight them off. so it´s almost guaranteed our information will end up stolen by hackers sooner or later.

----------

will pro7 be able to change payment models, cash-shop prices, or even content?
will this deal mean we will get our patches later, or even miss out on patches, expansions or shopitems?

if only one of this questions gets answered with "yes", i will try to get into the original soe game by all means, and if that´s impossible i will not even play the game or any soe or pro7 game again. the ps2 devs made a great game and put a lot of effort into fulfilling our wishes and making this the best game ever. any changes by externals - and i mean ANY changes - are blasphemie! we fought out some things with the devs and don´t want to have to do this again with pro7 just because they break the game.

-------

final word: i´m impressed that our devs follow this thread and that some of them even read every single post! i have tried to do the same, but i admit that i skipped some pages!
devs, you are the best! please always keep in mind that for most of us you are OUR DEVS and not soe ;-) so whenever we rant about soe, please don´t take it personal! we know you are part of soe, but we don´t want to think about that ;-) for me the evil part of soe are the beancounters, not the developers!

[Shanesan]

Hundreds of years worth of EQ2 subscription cancellations (http://eq2wire.com/2012/02/23/soe-eq2-community-team-deletes-100s-of-posts-bans-dozens-over-prosieben-feedback/) may have helped things along :p

Good. SoE only brought this upon themselves as a stupid company that really makes stupid decisions for the whole of the company as well as the community.

I'm also glad to see that people voting with their money works in practice. The political forum would be shocked.

Of course we should not praise them if they change their mind and work out a solution. They did this to themselves and deserve no thanks. The money spoke to them, so we spoke to them back with our money. Our money was louder. They do not deserve to be praised as heroes when they were villains first.

[Vancha]

Of course we should not praise them if they change their mind and work out a solution. They did this to themselves and deserve no thanks. The money spoke to them, so we spoke to them back with our money. Our money was louder. They do not deserve to be praised as heroes when they were villains first.

As I said, anything less than EU and US servers on the same server list is a regression. The amount of money SOE must have been getting from PSS1 to implement such an archaic system for games that could only suffer from it must have been truly immense.

[Boomzor]

hamma, could you make a locked thread and edit in the news we get from soe and pro7? this thread here is hard to follow with all the ranting between the constructive posts.


I support this.

On another note; splitting communities is a very very bad idea. Not in the least for pro7 who are trying to break in on the bigger market. Oh boy. You'll be starting out with angry and disillusioned customers. You know, the ones upset about how you've ripped them away from their friends over seas.
Even if they do try out the game, and here's the million dollar question, how long do you think these will stay around after the novelty of a new game wears off?
Further, with how much fervor do you think these people will promote your new game?

Certainly not to the extent where you'll make money off of them or ride the social snowball effect they have the potential to create.

It's no secret that MMO's of any kind need a critical mass of players to be attractive, and above all, to STAY attractive.
The communities are what keep people playing. Browse around a bit (IGDA's a good start if you're interested) and you'll find papers from some pretty smart people who's established this for a fact, time and time again.

[snoopdog]

A friend and I who live in Switzerland have been waiting eagerly for PS2. I re-subscribed to PS1 and he even bought a new gaming PC in anticipation. But this US/Europe split is a game-killer for us. PS2 will be guaranteed to die before it even gets started. We have both suffered, first from the lack of players on the original European server, then from the long ping times on the U.S. servers after servers were combined. But... given a choice, we would prefer to have a game full of players and suffer some lag than play a game with few players in it. The massive number of players is THE thing that makes PS interesting. I also have friends in the U.S. with whom I play both PS1 and EQII. Europeans don't share a common language. The Germans are presumably the biggest game market of the European countries, but the English, Spanish, French, Germans, and Italians don't mix much. Cutting European players off from U.S. players will not change that. If in the past, we could not get enough European players to support a single server, then supporting a language-specific server for Spain, France, England, Germany, and Italy, for example, is a lost cause. So we'll be left with just a German server. Too bad for the players in England, eh?

Sony has disappointed me. The inventor of the Walkman and some of the first portable CD players has been left in the dust by Apple. Sony laptops look nice, but are mediocre in performance and over-priced. Sony still thinks they have pricing power due to the cache' of their name, but they actually don't. Sony products are not sexy anymore. The only bright spot might be the PlayStation, but letting themselves get hacked left a bad taste in everyone's mouth. Now this. What happened to you Sony? Are you trying to systemically destroy your company?

[DeathHaze]

hamma, could you make a locked thread and edit in the news we get from soe and pro7? this thread here is hard to follow with all the ranting between the constructive posts.[/QUOTE]

Do you suggest multiple topics on the same subject then? Should we not be discussing this in one area, to present SOE with one link full of our thoughts?

[Shogun]

Do you suggest multiple topics on the same subject then? Should we not be discussing this in one area, to present SOE with one link full of our thoughts?

no i don´t... first read, then think, then answer... don´t leave out the middlestep!

i want a locked thread where NO discussion takes place and where a mod enters the information we get from soe or pro7 about the issue.

unaware players come here, see over 800 posts and only read the first few pages before they skip and start to rant! we got several answers from soe and pro7 that are not even seen by most people. and it´s impossible to check over 800 posts for the 4 or 5 informational answers we got.

instead of a new thread hamma could edit the OP and put in the official answers there, to catch on the unaware new readers

[texico]

Woo wo wo, I don't think just taking down the barriers is enough. In fact it might cause problems. Everybody living in Europe is going to flood to the American version, i.e they're going to have bigger populations, bigger fights etc.

You'd be compelled to go there to get better fights and better service, but you'd then have to deal with ping, which is unfair. If you want the decent ping, you'd have to put up with potentially smaller fights and dealing with Pro7.

[Boomzor]

A typically bad example of this is the BF3 weapon/vehicle feed back threads for PC on battle log.

6000+ posts and not the faintest clue about what has already been pointed out or addressed.

We need the readers digest version of this thread.

[Mirror]

Localised servers are very welcome but they must be accessible to all. Lots of people have already said it.

Some North American players like to play with Europeans on a euro server because :
*Work Schedules
*Culture differences
*Game play style differences
*Long established online friendship
*Military serving in Euro countries

(this of course goes the same for euro players on U.S servers)

While some international servers in say Iceland or London would be cool this does not really bother me.

Other concerns are:
*Pro7 cashshop prices. Say my noobhammer of death costs $20 in the soe shop i don't want it to cost me £20 in the pro7 shop or for that matter £30. (current £/$ rate is 1.5)

*Credit/debit card details, Pro7 have a worse record than SOE for losing these it seems.

*What happens to any purchased items should pro7 shut the server down.

*The subject of patches, updates, testserver, dev feedback and expansions. Do we get them/access to them, what will the localisation timeframe be? 1-2hours / 1-2days / 1-2weeks / months.

- Development feedback and interaction, so far the level of interaction with the SOE Planetside 2 dev team has been unprecedented for such a large and important studio. I would hate that us Europeans as 2nd class customers would miss out on the future of this.

-Beta, I have always suspected that Europeans would miss out on beta and i think in the light of this deal i would like some reassurance that we will not miss out on such an important part of our games development.


-I have alot of fond memories not to mention input from the test server in the early years it will be a great shame if its a north american only feature.

Exactly this!

[Mirror]

Hundreds of years worth of EQ2 subscription cancellations (http://eq2wire.com/2012/02/23/soe-eq2-community-team-deletes-100s-of-posts-bans-dozens-over-prosieben-feedback/) may have helped things along :p

They have been reading this forum aswell because they quote Dart in the second section.

It's good to see the entire community come together in times like these.

[Vancha]

Woo wo wo, I don't think just taking down the barriers is enough. In fact it might cause problems. Everybody living in Europe is going to flood to the American version, i.e they're going to have bigger populations, bigger fights etc.
Plenty of EU players picked Werner over Emerald or Markov, so I don't think this'll be that big an issue unless PSS1 are this generation's GOA and actively push people towards SOE due to providing terrible service.

That said, you're right to an extent. People who play an MMO want to be part of it's global community. That's the whole reason segregation makes no sense for an MMO.

[ItsTheSheppy]

I can't imagine at this point that region locking will be left on the table. It isn't very often that you can see a community come together against something quite as unanimously.

It's reasonable to assume that, yes, if players are allowed to choose any server they wish, the US-East Coast servers may end up the 'place to be' and the Euro servers may find themselves with lower populations. However, there are a few things to consider:


Some folks may prefer to play on a less populated server.
Let the free market decide. If people wanna sacrifice ping for pop that's their choice.
The international mixing pot that was Emerald was one of PS1's more charming features.
Region Locking the game is dividing & conquering your own population. Not many video game success stories begin with the phrase "Well we started off by segregating our regional populations..."
When given the choice between forcing poeple to have what's good for them, or leaving it up to them to choose for themselves, ten times out of ten people will opt for options and freedom of choice.
SOE, If Pro7 demands region locking as part of the agreement, they are not your friends and don't have your best interests in mind.


I cannot imagine after this backlash, coupled with similar catastrophies in the EQ communities, that region lock will make it out of this deal alive. SOE would have to be a truly suicidal company to stay the course on this.

Then again... SW:Galaxies, BFRs... you never know...

[Boomzor]

Fairly far down the list of priorities, but still.

I want the ability to start a halibut invasion across the pond when Werner (or its successor) is down for whatever reason.

Creative stuff like that will never happen with region lock.

[Shogun]

by the way...

for those who like to show soe how many of us dislike the whole pro7 idea...

there is a petition going on:
http://www.change.org/petitions/sony-online-entertainment-stop-the-prosieben-soe-partnership#

[Mirror]

by the way...

for those who like to show soe how many of us dislike the whole pro7 idea...

there is a petition going on:
http://www.change.org/petitions/sony-online-entertainment-stop-the-prosieben-soe-partnership#

signed.

[ItsTheSheppy]

I signed it.. and the woman who created it needs some damn diet slim fast...

Wow, that was mean for no reason. :huh:

Also, signed, for all the good these online petitions do. Just to crank up the volume a bit, I guess.

[Corax]

signed it as well

[Vash02]

I'm thinking they will let us access all servers and just redirect european players to the Pro7 shop (thats where all the revenue is) and re-direct european support tickets to Pro7 aswell.

Since SOE is still managing all the servers it shouldnt be hard to implement.

[Masahiko]

Going to support eurobros on wanting no region lock. Would be more fun with more people, bigger battles, and just large war 24/7 as one region goes to sleep the next wakes up and continues the world domination.

[I SandRock]

I think the whole community segregation debate is overshadowing the fact that EU will probably be left with a company that has poor community / customer service support, poor patching and maintenance, poor account services, poor everything. Nothing makes me think they're any better than GOA back in the day, or GamersFirst currently, in fact I get a worse vibe with these guys.
Likely we will see a delayed release in EU, delayed and shorter beta access, no EU consideration for PS1 veterans, delayed patches, and if they are left in charge of the RMT store for EU, Pay2Win items with no balance.

/doom&gloom

[Fenrys]

I think the whole community segregation debate is overshadowing the fact that EU will probably be left with a company that has poor community / customer service support

I'd change the word "probably" to "might". It's a risk and it's understandably scary, but it also has the potential to cut the other way. SOE has a terrible track record for dealing with hackers and cheaters in PS1. If Pro7 does it better, which would not take too much effort given the current low standard, it might be that we'll all have incentives to move to the EU servers. The competition may work in our favor (assuming the deal on the table enables competition for players between SOE and Pro7).

Also, they're hiring more customer support people right now (http://en.alaplaya.net/forum/alaplaya-general-discussion-f61/support-hands-needed-languages-en-nl-no-se-t484609.html). An army of 16 year old's with IRC, getting paid by the number of support tickets dealt with in their spare time, should be able to ban hackers with the quickness.

[Gandhi]

An army of 16 year old's with IRC, getting paid by the number of support tickets dealt with in their spare time
Oh god, the horror...

[Shogun]

Also, they're hiring more customer support people right now (http://en.alaplaya.net/forum/alaplaya-general-discussion-f61/support-hands-needed-languages-en-nl-no-se-t484609.html). An army of 16 year old's with IRC, getting paid by the number of support tickets dealt with in their spare time, should be able to ban hackers with the quickness.

holy shit, this was NO joke?

but what bothers me most is, that soe and pro7 didn´t comment on our other concerns!
the fact, that they ONLY hook up on the "we want to play all together" thing and completely ignore the other concerns we have must mean that we are right and they will totally screw up. like "let´s comment on the serverlock only, because that´s the only thing we could change. maybe they will forget about the other crap we do"

so we will keep asking until we get answers:

will eu get the same beta access as usa?
will we all get the same game or will pro7 be able to change paymodels,patches and shopitems?
will everyone with a ps1 account get the option to use the soe account that already has our data, or are we going to be forced to give our info to another insecure company in addition to soe who already got hacked and fortified their servers?

so everyone ask these questions again and again... i have read them a hundret times in this thread alone... so why is there no coverage in the FAQ? you know what FAQ stands for, soe?

[RobUK]

What a rollercoaster PlanetSide 2 has proven to be so far. From a personal perspective I've gone from being extremely skeptical about how PS2 would turn out, due to free to play, cash shop and too many apparent nods to the CoD crowd, to warming to the game and becoming caught up in the marvelously infectious enthusiasm for this game generated by Matt Higby and his colleagues.

This business of region locks and people being shifted over to PSS1 has left me deeply troubled. I find it hard to imagine that SOE at least could not have seen this uproar coming. Are they really so utterly out of touch with their games and the people that play them? How can a company that relies so heavily on having a good relationship with its customers appear to be so seemingly oblivious to their basic needs? It's so very obvious that their games are multi-cultural and that they're all the better for it. All successful MMO's are built around a strong community.

As a resident of the UK that has played PlanetSide for 8+ years, primarily on Emerald/Gemini, I am left feeling extremely uncomfortable and more than a little betrayed by this entire episode. I'm glad that there appears to be the real possibility that I may yet still get to play with my friends from around the world in PS2.

Even so, you people at SOE (and PSS1) have got a lot of ground to make up to win my trust and respect back again. The shame of all this is that you simply didn't need to lose the trust and respect that you built up over that eight year period in the first place.

What were you people thinking? I'm still bemused that you even considered doing this in the first place.

[Crator]

Honestly, I'm just curious about the "why" they wanted/needed to do it. That really hasn't been said yet.

[Vash02]

Honestly, I'm just curious about the "why" they wanted/needed to do it. That really hasn't been said yet.
Probably because SOE/Pro7 didnt want the other benefiting from their efforts.

[Crator]

Yeah, I know about all the speculation. It would be cool for SOE to actually tell us though. Then we wouldn't have to rage speculate!

[Shogun]

why?
it would only make sense if pro7 was going to mess with the game or the shop, as a protection against players running to the original game over at soe.

if the game is exactly the same on both sides, there would be no loss for anyone when players use both servers. some eu would play in america and some americans would play in europe. it´s just exchange and not loss. as far as one side doesn´t screw the game causing the masses to transit away.

[Kran De Loy]

I'm thinking they will let us access all servers and just redirect european players to the Pro7 shop (thats where all the revenue is) and re-direct european support tickets to Pro7 aswell.

Since SOE is still managing all the servers it shouldnt be hard to implement.

Which is what I'm hoping they meant when they said they were talking with their techie departments to see if it is feasible. Which it is.

If Pro7 wants to try to tweak the EU item shop to their own interests tho, that would cause a huge rippling effect of disruption that would almost certain eliminate the possibility. If SOE still controlled the items and the item stats, but Pro7 controlled the pricing and marketing it'd work, but if Pro7 wants to control the stats too it would cause the huge imbalances between SOE owned items and Pro7 owned items and Euros could only use the euro items in euro servers and vice versa which was likely the source of the Region Locking.

[Boomzor]

Honestly, I'm just curious about the "why" they wanted/needed to do it. That really hasn't been said yet.

In very rough terms, something like this:

When you're desperate, you do stupid stuff.
Varying parts of the Sony Conglomerate are on the ropes and need to show other than red numbers in their fiscal reports. SOE being one of them, they decide to close down studios and sell off property. Along comes Pro7, wanting to expand and all and said "we'll buy your EU customers, here's a lump sum to keep you afloat until you give us the product to make future money off"
Though I bet they will never ever truthfully comment on that cause that would send the shareholders into a hissyfit. Hell, government institutions won't get that information out of big companies without constitutional hearings, and quite possibly not even then.

[Sta]

Honestly, I'm just curious about the "why" they wanted/needed to do it. That really hasn't been said yet.

If I remember correctly someone whos with soe has posted here that the decision was made by guys above the guys we know...
In my opinion they were simply completely unaware of the impact which their decision to split eu/usa could possibly have regarding the player base...
Its always like that, the people in highest positions always know how to make money not where their money came from..

EdiT:

Unfortunately I cannot comment more than we already have. These decisions are made at a very high level and affect all of our products. All I can do is reiterate what has already been stated. We are listening and in discussions with Prosieben over our products to explore options.

We will continue to ask for everyone's patience and constructive feedback.

[EZShot]

In my opinion they were simply completely unaware of the impact which their decision to split eu/usa could possibly have regarding the player base...
Its always like that, the people in highest positions always know how to make money not where their money came from..

Bang on!

Greedy hands meddling in things they have no clue about :rolleyes:

[SuperMorto]

Hasn't been to bad overall.

I think moderating the various official forum threads is a harder job. :lol:

We have less rules around here.

There are 22 deleted posts in this thread ;)

And 23 of them are mine!! :D

Just kidding!.

[jakaul]

Hmm, I think I didn't give Smedley + Higby and the team enough credit. I'm not one to blindly follow anything, but damn, this is refreshing. (ie, thanks to Higby and team)

[etheral]

Earlier on in the thread someone (I forget who) mentioned that the pro7 deal might be a way for SOE to get around the fact that the whole "you cant bring a class action suit against us" provision in their TOS/EULA/whatever is illegal under EU law.

The idea was that under this partnership, pro7 would be the ones who would be liable for damages if another hacking fiasco, in exchange for a way to break into the mainstream MMO market.

Im not sure if this has any truth in it or not, but its believable. It also explains why SOE arent partnering with a more reputable or established company.

[Mechzz]

I've watched but never before posted on these forums.

What a week this has been.

My excitement for PS2 has risen as the rollout has progressed. I want to be fighting in those new bases and out on those beautiful landscapes. But now this! A highlight of the original PS was the ability to "follow the sun" - playing on Werner early evenings European time, but having the option to enjoy the different "taste and smell" on the US east coast server if the work schedule pointed towards a late night session.

Now we're to be locked into a euro-prison (I'm a UK player) in a game where your best weapon was sometimes the ability to call in your outfit's air support or MBT's and to be stuck in a platoon with poor to non-English speakers could literally be deadly and certainly frustrating.

But that's not all. The real reason I'm posting is that I took the bother to visit the "alaplaya", or whatever it is, website. Not promising. The "games" they advertise look one level up from Farmville and are not the kind of thing SOE should be associating themselves with. Their 16 year old mods demonstrate a stunning lack of understanding of written English. There is evidence that they might choose to exercise their ownership of the euro-rights to introduce game-altering cash-based changes. There is evidence they may have delayed game updates being pushed out.

Fragmenting the user base like this is NOT how to persuade me to sub, which I was seriously considering.

And to top it all, I'm a Glasgow Rangers fan.

Anyone from Scotland/UK will understand my deep depression and strong attraction to the whiskey bottle in the cupboard this dark Friday evening.....

[Vancha]

http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/02/23/planetside-2-devs-run-through-a-hypothetical-battle-scenario/

People are being warned off the game by comments below the very material that's meant to generate hype for it. The net profit of this deal is already declining.

[Mirror]

http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/02/23/planetside-2-devs-run-through-a-hypothetical-battle-scenario/

People are being warned off the game by comments below the very material that's meant to generate hype for it. The net profit of this deal is already declining.

Well SOE only have themselves to blame for this.

They have done all this promotion over the past 6 months to a year and basically have basically ruined it over the past few days.

GG SOE!!

[ShadoViper]

Well SOE only have themselves to blame for this.

They have done all this promotion over the past 6 months to a year and basically have basically ruined it over the past few days.

GG SOE!!

Sad but true


http://img.tapatalk.com/4ac696df-203f-235b.jpg

[typhaon]

Honestly, I'm just curious about the "why" they wanted/needed to do it. That really hasn't been said yet.

There are probably a host of reasons.... all of them financial.

[VioletZero]

There are probably a host of reasons.... all of them financial.

Like what?

[Mechzz]

ProSieben's biggest game is "S4 League". So big they decided to open a server in the US. This is how it seems to be working:

http://en.alaplaya.net/forum/general-discussions-f196/where-are-the-na-players--t493282.html

Basically none of the NA players want to play on "their" server because all the action is on the EU server.

Sound familiar SOE/ProSieben ?

Seriously, we all know there are technical issues when people remote from the server join in and play, but those issues are far outweighed by the extra fun and companionship that is created when different peoples come together.

Get your act together and give us full access to any of the servers.

If you do that we Europeans will pay inflated European prices to play the same game that the US has because the FUN outweighs the techie stuff.

If you don't do it the games (not just PS2) will die quicker because you will lose the critical mass needed for games like these where the players ARE the story.

Oh, and pay-to-win will kill the games too. $70 monocles will not, but game winning weapons/add-ons will. Surely.

[Gandhi]

I seriously doubt SOE would allow ProSieben to put any kind of pay2win items in their shop. They know this isn't a Korean MMO, it would destroy the game faster than the BFR update did. It's actually the thing I'm least worried about, more worrying is their habit of 'employing' random teenagers who play their games as the people who handle support tickets and their cavalier attitude toward hacking and cheating in their games.

[Mechzz]

I seriously doubt SOE would allow ProSieben to put any kind of pay2win items in their shop. They know this isn't a Korean MMO, it would destroy the game faster than the BFR update did. It's actually the thing I'm least worried about, more worrying is their habit of 'employing' random teenagers who play their games as the people who handle support tickets and their cavalier attitude toward hacking and cheating in their games.

The FAQ that was put out says ProSieben will have the rights in Europe to alter in-game content and charge their own "similar" (= higher) prices. P2W is a valid concern, but it's probably more in P7's hands than SOE's if the contract has been signed.

P7 also don't patch and/or update even their biggest game as regularly as the home region. This too is alluded to in the FAQ. Also, this post shows late patching is happening as we speak. Look at the second post from the bottom on the first page of this thread:

http://en.alaplaya.net/forum/general-discussions-f196/26-days-lefteureureureur--t492435.html

BUT I Would still forgive late patching if we get access to all the servers.

I am seriously considering subbing as PS1 was my favourite game of all time, bar none. But this whole pathetic, sordid drama days before beta begins (and don't start me on that!) is really discouraging :(

[Gandhi]

The FAQ that was put out says ProSieben will have the rights in Europe to alter in-game content and charge their own "similar" (= higher) prices. P2W is a valid concern, but it's probably more in P7's hands than SOE's if the contract has been signed.

Yeah I know, but I still don't think that means they have the legal right to put whatever they want in the game. In fact I'd be surprised if PSS1 actually creates any items themselves, more likely they'll consult with SOE about what they want and SOE's developers will create it for them. I'm thinking things like reskins of existing weapons (without changing any of its attributes), various culture related decals (flags for instance) that kind of thing.

SOE's profits in the EU are on the line as much as PSS1's, and SOE must know that selling power will kill the game. I agree that PSS1's past actions are pretty bad, but I just don't see how SOE could let them carry on like that for PS2 and the EQ series.

[Mechzz]

...In fact I'd be surprised if PSS1 actually creates any items themselves, more likely they'll consult with SOE about what they want and SOE's developers will create it for them. I'm thinking things like reskins of existing weapons (without changing any of its attributes), various culture related decals (flags for instance) that kind of thing.


I hear ya, and I hope you are correct :)

Access to the US servers (and them to us) is the big issue here. In my old outfit we had several fantastic US players and playing as a Brit on the US servers was always a blast. To take that away from us in pursuit of short-sighted and ultimately short-terms dollars and euros by region locking is plain daft because it will simply hasten the decline of the player population through fragmentation.

[RadarX]

I hear ya, and I hope you are correct :)

Access to the US servers (and them to us) is the big issue here. In my old outfit we had several fantastic US players and playing as a Brit on the US servers was always a blast. To take that away from us in pursuit of short-sighted and ultimately short-terms dollars and euros by region locking is plain daft because it will simply hasten the decline of the player population through fragmentation.

To make this 100% clear, Prosieben is a partner in distributing our games in the EU. SOE remains the sole developer of game content for PlanetSide 2 and any of our other games. If something goes in the game, it will be because we created it.

[basti]

Hokay, so lets get some text written:

The Issues: There are plenty of them, here are those that pretty much are the major ones:

Region Locking: Said plenty of times, dont do it, ever. There are loads of people from Europe playing with their US mates, and loads of US guys playing with their Euro mates. This applys to All games. Destroying those communitys is just a bad idea. But theres more!

Different account systems: This one is actually a major issue. There are actually people having an all access pass, playing DCUO on a Euro server, and EQ2 on a US server. Or playing Pirates of the burning sea on a US server, and DCUO on a EU server. ANY combination you could possibly think of, with or without all access, is possible. And forcing EU players on their own account system would simply force all those guys to buy two subscriptions, drop one game alltogether, or drop all games because of boycott. So, in fact, you loose a whole lot of people, for no good reason.

And it doesnt have to be that way!

Solution: Avoid different account systems. There is no need for them. Pro7 support stuff could be easily integrated into the already existing Station support. The community team could be integrated into the existing forums and commnity outlets as well, even across the border. And the cash? Well, you know where people are coming from, you know what servers are EU and what are US. So its rather easy to figure out what cash goes where.

While this would be much more complicated for both SOE and Pro7, it would be rather perfect of all the players. We wouldnt need to adjust to anything, in fact, nothing would change for us. But we would get more support stuff, and a crapload of new players thanks to EU advertising.

IF you guys can somehow pull this off, everyone wins.

[ThGlump]

Solution: Avoid different account systems. There is no need for them. Pro7 support stuff could be easily integrated into the already existing Station support. The community team could be integrated into the existing forums and commnity outlets as well, even across the border. And the cash? Well, you know where people are coming from, you know what servers are EU and what are US. So its rather easy to figure out what cash goes where.

Basti for president (or rather SOE CEO). If they do this, they solve everything, even region locking, which is there only to force EU players into pro7 accounts. With this there is no need for region lock.

[Azren]

To make this 100% clear, Prosieben is a partner in distributing our games in the EU. SOE remains the sole developer of game content for PlanetSide 2 and any of our other games. If something goes in the game, it will be because we created it.

That may sound good, but who is to say you won't create payToWin items specifically for Pro7 PS2 version? What we want is security that all the items EU shop has are the very same as the NA one.

[Wakken]

Basti for president (or rather SOE CEO). If they do this, they solve everything, even region locking, which is there only to force EU players into pro7 accounts. With this there is no need for region lock.

Basti for president!

[Vancha]

Solution: Avoid different account systems. There is no need for them. Pro7 support stuff could be easily integrated into the already existing Station support. The community team could be integrated into the existing forums and commnity outlets as well, even across the border. And the cash? Well, you know where people are coming from, you know what servers are EU and what are US. So its rather easy to figure out what cash goes where.

While this would be much more complicated for both SOE and Pro7, it would be rather perfect of all the players. We wouldnt need to adjust to anything, in fact, nothing would change for us. But we would get more support stuff, and a crapload of new players thanks to EU advertising.

IF you guys can somehow pull this off, everyone wins.
I really wish they'd tell us why they can't do this. No offensive to Basti, but this is the common sense implementation. I expect this is what most people had in mind when they first heard of the PSS1 partnership.

[ThGlump]

I really wish they'd tell us why they can't do this. No offensive to Basti, but this is the common sense implementation. I expect this is what most people had in mind when they first heard of the PSS1 partnership.

Thats what most of us hoped from a start. Pro7 for advertising, community support, and they get part from shop. But at soe they dont have common sense so someone with one need to tell them this solution.

[Kran De Loy]

To make this 100% clear, Prosieben is a partner in distributing our games in the EU. SOE remains the sole developer of game content for PlanetSide 2 and any of our other games. If something goes in the game, it will be because we created it.
Thank you Radar for responding and trying to reassure us, but Azren has a point.

That may sound good, but who is to say you won't create payToWin items specifically for Pro7 PS2 version? What we want is security that all the items EU shop has are the very same as the NA one.

[RadarX]

Thank you Radar for responding and trying to reassure us, but Azren has a point.

The security of our EU customers is important to us because ultimately we are making our game for them as well. We will continue to work with Prosieben and provide our expertise on security especially in regards to user information.

There are currently no plans to have people playing two different versions of PlanetSide 2. What you are describing is a massive shift in mechanics which would require essentially two games be made.

[Kran De Loy]

The security of our EU customers is important to us because ultimately we are making our game for them as well. We will continue to work with Prosieben as and provide our expertise on security especially in regards to user information.

There are currently no plans to have people playing two different versions of PlanetSide 2. What you are describing is a massive shift in mechanics which would require essentially two games be made.

:love:

[Shogun]

thanks a lot for pointing that out!

so we got positive answers on almost all issues that came up.

only thing that still bothers me is the 90day inactivity erasing. i know it´s just an emergency clause and may not even be used, but it just being there scares me. i know my luck... i level up my char for a long time, then i have a car accident and cannot play for 92 days and pro7 meets it´s database capacity and decides to delete me. all process gone. that´s a thing even SOE never did to its customers!

[basti]

thanks a lot for pointing that out!

so we got positive answers on almost all issues that came up.

only thing that still bothers me is the 90day inactivity erasing. i know it´s just an emergency clause and may not even be used, but it just being there scares me. i know my luck... i level up my char for a long time, then i have a car accident and cannot play for 92 days and pro7 meets it´s database capacity and decides to delete me. all process gone. that´s a thing even SOE never did to its customers!

It never got used actually. No fear there, you never see someone getting his acc deleted because of inactivity.

[Duddy]

The security of our EU customers is important to us because ultimately we are making our game for them as well. We will continue to work with Prosieben and provide our expertise on security especially in regards to user information.

There are currently no plans to have people playing two different versions of PlanetSide 2. What you are describing is a massive shift in mechanics which would require essentially two games be made.

I know you mean the best Radar, but I did chuckle at that bit. :lol:

[Spoof]

The security of our EU customers is important to us because ultimately we are making our game for them as well. We will continue to work with Prosieben and provide our expertise on security especially in regards to user information.

There are currently no plans to have people playing two different versions of PlanetSide 2. What you are describing is a massive shift in mechanics which would require essentially two games be made.

Thanks for the response Radar, despite the rage I think we all appreciate that you and the devs are stuck in the middle of all this.

Perhaps, while the iron is hot, you could get the message through to 'those upstairs' that if plans to have two different versions of the game ever did materialise... that would likely produce the mother of all backlashes :D

We'd have to come over there and spank you with our Vobla fish-on guns!

[RadarX]

I know you mean the best Radar, but I did chuckle at that bit. :lol:

We are in a new era for that in the games industry. We were the first of dozens of games companies who went through the same thing we did and learned from it. We have a lot of experience to share.

[Hamma]

Thanks for providing clarifications Radar :D

[Plissket]

To make this 100% clear, Prosieben is a partner in distributing our games in the EU. SOE remains the sole developer of game content for PlanetSide 2 and any of our other games. If something goes in the game, it will be because we created it.

This would indeed be good to hear, although there is some confusion here as I did read that Prosieben were talking about unique content in the EU....

To be honest, I think there is some confusion between the two parties of this deal.

[Fenrys]

What you are describing is a massive shift in mechanics which would require essentially two games be made.

This tells me you don't understand the issues or perhaps you're intentionally being obtuse and don't want to give an answer we won't want to hear.

To tweak some numbers in a database so that (for example) each Jackhammer pellet does 5 damage instead of 4, and the Jackhammer itself costs $10.00 per gun instead of $0.00 - this would not need to be a massive undertaking requiring two games to be made.

Pro7 has already come out and told us they intend to change both the content of and the price of cash shop items as they see fit.

I've read all your replies to this thread, and so far you have (expertly) neither confirmed nor denied if this will be the case.

[typhaon]

Like what?

You'd need to know the exact details of the deal to be sure - but I'd assume it's something along the lines of expense/risk being dumped for a lower share of the revenue.

[Qwan]

OK ive spent the weekend thinking about this server seperation thing (also checking out the new tera beta :) ) First its going F2P fail, now there seperating me from my buds :cry: . This is a failed project and its not even released yet :doh: . I give this game a year before people get tired of pink tanks and purple guns. Then when no more money is to be made in side grades and pretty toys, the P2W concepted will kick in, then here comes this lvl 1 trooper, with the one shot rifle :eek: . It hurts to say this but they should have just made it for the playstation, and left it at that. And if you take a step back and look at the over all game, the only thing it had going for it was the massive battle scale for a FPS, and since they just put of the segregation rules, that just killed that :rofl: . Damn SOE if you just would have up graded the graphics and left everything else the same Im sure everyone one in this comunity would have been happy to play :groovy: . Now you have this MMO FPS that seems to be falling appart at the seems :doh: . Free or not I think ill keep playing the old PS. Im going to go play BF3 with my EU buds now.

EPIC FAIL :mad:

[PrISM]

So does all of this mean we don't have to play with the Chinese? I think I'm willing to pay that price.

[RadarX]

This tells me you don't understand the issues or perhaps you're intentionally being obtuse and don't want to give an answer we won't want to hear.

To tweak some numbers in a database so that (for example) each Jackhammer pellet does 5 damage instead of 4, and the Jackhammer itself costs $10.00 per gun instead of $0.00 - this would not need to be a massive undertaking requiring two games to be made.

Pro7 has already come out and told us they intend to change both the content of and the price of cash shop items as they see fit.

I've read all your replies to this thread, and so far you have (expertly) neither confirmed nor denied if this will be the case.

I think I'm fairly cognoscente of the issues and unfortunately being obtuse sometimes comes with my job. As I mentioned in the other responses, these decisions are made on a very high level.

I'll caveat the following statements with a reiteration that I am not a Game Designer.

/Hypothetical mode on

We will go with the example you have provided. The database change does sound very easy. The key component I think you are missing is Prosieben is not designing the game. In order to sell the Jackhammer for $10, we would have to decide we were going to sell the Jackhammer to everyone.

I'll take your example further. That tweak from 4 to 5 just made the Jackhammer 20-25% more powerful and really popular. Guess what? Now it's overpowered there but fine in the US version. Multiply this headache by dozens if not hundreds of items. Withl all respect, that does seem to me like two entirely different games.

/Hypothetical mode off

I'll continue to ask for your patience as more details become available. I've seen a lot of assumptions and speculation I'm hopeful we can clear up in the coming days.

[RadarX]

So does all of this mean we don't have to play with the Chinese? I think I'm willing to pay that price.

The9 is distributing a fully localized product for folks in Asia. Unless you can read Chinese, you'll want to stick with another version.

[SuperMorto]

The9 is distributing a fully localized product for folks in Asia. Unless you can read Chinese, you'll want to stick with another version.

Just keep the communications going with the community Radar, it does mean so much to us :)

Nice job keep it up :D

[Fenrys]

Thank you RadarX.

It's got to be hard when your boss asks you to provide feedback and the players are asking specific questions that you don't have permission to answer. It seems like you've been ordered to shoot yourself in the foot - answering the question is not allowed, but you have to say something anyway.

[SpLiTNuTz]

John smedley;
@j_smedley: We've come up with a plan to allow ALL players to play on any servers they want. More details to follow.
Twitter.

[PoisonTaco]

John smedley;
@j_smedley: We've come up with a plan to allow ALL players to play on any servers they want. More details to follow.
Twitter.

Nice! Good to know they actually were listening.

[Mirror]

If all goes well this thread might need to be renamed.

[Crator]

New thread name if they've fixed it. "Planetside 2 was going to be region locked but SOE realized this was a mistake and changed it! (YAY Sony)"

[Mastachief]

Keep the thread as it is until we see it in action.

[Raymac]

Keep the thread as it is until we see it in action.

You mean until launch? That's a bit silly. Obviously there are more details to come, but I think a tweet from Smed counts as an offical announcement and his tweet was not vague.

Players will not be locked into a region. It's official.

[Mastachief]

Yeh they said they would rotate home conts in planetside 1 every couple of months too or re-patch the reaver armour. Lets just wait and see what happens come release.

Let the thread die provided its a good solution it can always be resurrected if they backtrack

[Baneblade]

So the Chinese will be playing... where?

[BigBossMonkey]

So the Chinese will be playing... where?

On region locked chinese servers on the chinese localized client.

[Nephilimuk]

So the Chinese will be playing... where?

On a dedicated set of servers in China. Well thats my crazy punt of an answer

[Coreldan]

I believe it's "The9" that publishes the game in china, much like Pro7 does so in Europe.

[CidHighwind]

I believe it's "The9" that publishes the game in china, much like Pro7 does so in Europe.

9 rings for the elven kings, over beyond the sea. 7 rings for those that Basti brings, over in the Euro. and 3 rings for USA and SOE, those who made the game be.

[Vancha]

On region locked chinese servers on the chinese localized client.

Are they region locked? Or do they just have their own servers?

[ShockNC]

Are they region locked? Or do they just have their own servers?

Depend on what the Central Chinese Party says.

[Graywolves]

9 rings for the elven kings, over beyond the sea. 7 rings for those that Basti brings, over in the Euro. and 3 rings for USA and SOE, those who made the game be.

Now we gotta make a LotR parody when PS2 comes out.

[Mastachief]

NEWS?

[Hamma]

I think it will be a bit longer before we hear the final plans on this. But from Smeds tweets it sounds like they have it worked out. Probably just finalizing the details.

[Tom Peters]

Yeah there seemed to be enough of an uproar. Thank goodness, they dodged a bullet here.

[Fenrys]

I hope "ALL" includes the Chinese. They're awake when most of EU/US are sleeping, and I appreciate their contribution to late night Planetside.

Playing with them was also interesting from an anthropological perspective. It seems like the game became more cooperative late at night - random tanks roll off the pad and anybody can jump in. If you try that during US prime time, someone will cuss you out. It's more of a "We're all in this together so lets go kill us some smurfs and elmos and turn the world purple," feeling rather than the usual "My elite clique holds you in contempt. Go away so we can get back to getting farmed in this stalemate."

[Skittles]

I hope "ALL" includes the Chinese. They're awake when most of EU/US are sleeping, and I appreciate their contribution to late night Planetside.

Playing with them was also interesting from an anthropological perspective. It seems like the game became more cooperative late at night - random tanks roll off the pad and anybody can jump in. If you try that during US prime time, someone will cuss you out. It's more of a "We're all in this together so lets go kill us some smurfs and elmos and turn the world purple," feeling rather than the usual "My elite clique holds you in contempt. Go away so we can get back to getting farmed in this stalemate."

As in? When they all were NC and pops were 60-20-18? Or when they all went TR/VS and did the exact same thing? Yeah, theres contribution for you. :rolleyes:

Or was it when they all spawn maxes? I must of been off that night they were all cool to have around.

[Shanesan]

*pulls out a chain whip and lashes out, dragging the thread back to the front from Page 7*

Everyone else might want to fracking forget about you, but you're not so lucky with me. They said "more details to follow" and it's now been weeks. It sounds like a PR cover to me. After all this GDC stuff, everyone here should be MORE up in arms over this.

Where is the rabble? Stop getting starstruck by Higby and Teams great work so far when the upper management has a high chance of ruining it for everyone!

[Mastachief]

Don't worry shanesan some of us have this on mental tickover for bumpage

[SuperMorto]

*pulls out a chain whip and lashes out, dragging the thread back to the front from Page 7*

Everyone else might want to fracking forget about you, but you're not so lucky with me. They said "more details to follow" and it's now been weeks. It sounds like a PR cover to me. After all this GDC stuff, everyone here should be MORE up in arms over this.

Where is the rabble? Stop getting starstruck by Higby and Teams great work so far when the upper management has a high chance of ruining it for everyone!

This thread was gone but not forgotten. But we cant expect them to fix it in a few weeks, this could take few month to put together. But as you stated it could also be a cover up. But how are we to know? All we can do is sit and wait....

Morto.

[Fenrys]

Yes, now that the GDC distraction is over, a progress report on this most critical of issues would be appropriate.

[Bags]

Bump.

[Whalenator]

Bags, you monster.

[Furber]

I don't think bumping this to the top page is such a good idea (yes I know by replying I'm pushing it up too), if people see this thread and don't realize that they're coming up with a solution, they may not want to play the game. We need to just be patient, I'm sure whenever they fix it they will let us know.

[Bags]

We could just ask hamma to update the OP and title.

[Xaine]

Or we could keep bumping until we get an update ;)

[Death2All]

I like how the most viewed and posted thread on PSU is about angst towards SOE and a decision they made. Hopefully this isn't foreshadowing :(

[Gandhi]

I like how the most viewed and posted thread on PSU is about angst towards SOE and a decision they made. Hopefully this isn't foreshadowing :(
Given SOE's past I'd say it's normal. Though I'm hopeful for the future :)

[eebster]

it's funny when I know that the PS2 team are LoL fans.
They can learn something from LoL, and that's when LoL relied on GOA to deal with the European customers it was a DISASTER! and one of the main reasons why Europe had a far smaller player base then the American (Riot) run game, after more then a year of customers quitting and the remaining ones crying (real tears) Riot took our advice, fired GOA, set up server in Europe (they and we struggled for months at first) but things have fixed up, and a HUGE mistake was corrected, but only after suffering and losing people.

SOE, why risk this with PS2? I honestly don't get it, and I honestly would love if some sort of Arab spring can happen in big corporations like SOE chanting and remove those dictators!!!!!!

I don't like the idea, and something give me a feeling if I wanted to play on both servers I would need 2 games..yay

[DayOne]

two reasons to post:

1) still haven't heard back on the reworked deal

2) trying to get this topic to on THOUSAND responses!

[Eyeklops]

I would think at this point they are trying to figure a way out of a technical netcode nightmare. It is highly possible the netcode was designed with the assumption that ping would be controlled by a region lock, and it probably plays like poo if the ping gets too high. The general assumption here is that first person shooter games work much better with low ping. My personal belief is that the game would be more successful overall if they keep the region lock because it will play better for everyone.

I do however think there could be a compromise:

Define a high ping limit for the servers. Limit number of players that cannot meet this requirement on a per server basis. Give priority to "in region" players in the server queues.
Provide both region locked, and non-region locked servers. Let the players pick.

Many newcomers could be upset if they can't get on their region's servers because of non-region players. I do not know how they are breaking up the regions, but I am most certain the East coast U.S. servers are the ones that will have this issue. My initial feeling is that all the PS1 vets are going to try and ram into the same server so the problem might be containable.

I wonder what the general sentiment would be among the anti-region lock players if the game failed because the gameplay was crappy due to uncontrolled pings. Think about that for a while.

P.S. What do you forum goers think about this idea: Don't lock a toon to a specific server, let it log into any server you want, allowing the playerbase to move from server to server as they see fit.

[Fenrys]

P.S. What do you forum goers think about this idea: Don't lock a toon to a specific server, let it log into any server you want, allowing the playerbase to move from server to server as they see fit.

It's not a bad idea from a game mechanics perspective, but it may be technically unrealistic.

I imagine that a robust system for keeping track of all those players would be like: Every server has a copy of every character file. Every 3 seconds, each server sends a signal to each other server, for each character that exists, saying if that character is logged in.

It could create tonnes of network overhead.

[Eyeklops]

It's not a bad idea from a game mechanics perspective, but it may be technically unrealistic.

I imagine that a robust system for keeping track of all those players would be like: Every server has a copy of every character file. Every 3 seconds, each server sends a signal to each other server, for each character that exists, saying if that character is logged in.

It could create tonnes of network overhead.

How about 1 database server has all the players, and the gameserver just requests your info as you log in.

BTW, cross-talking servers like you mentioned may prove to use massive amounts of bandwidth.

[Fenrys]

How about 1 database server has all the players, and the gameserver just requests your info as you log in.

BTW, cross-talking servers like you mentioned may prove to use massive amounts of bandwidth.

Yeah, using a lot of bandwidth was what I was saying.

A database server might work, but would it be robust and unproblematic? I'm not sure - the solution isn't immediately obvious to me but that does not mean there isn't one. Without the cross-talk, dropped packets during log out might prevent you from logging back in to any server.

I'm not a very experienced programmer though, so who knows. The code might be simple, and as someone who often works at night and sleeps during the day, I think it would be cool to be able to move your character to whichever server is in prime time for its time zone.

[Markn]

Yeah, using a lot of bandwidth was what I was saying.

A database server might work, but would it be robust and unproblematic? I'm not sure - the solution isn't immediately obvious to me but that does not mean there isn't one. Without the cross-talk, dropped packets during log out might prevent you from logging back in to any server.

I'm not a very experienced programmer though, so who knows. The code might be simple, and as someone who often works at night and sleeps during the day, I think it would be cool to be able to move your character to whichever server is in prime time for its time zone.

The code would be complex, but doable. Simple terms you log in to a server screen that shows all characters. You select your character then server and when you do that it tells the server to load your character file from a central character database.

Is it doable ? Sure. Is it realistic ? Nah.

[Kran De Loy]

Back to topic, what are the details on the revised PSS1 deal?

I for one will not let this rest. I've been going around telling a lot of friends and family about how awesome PS2 is and will be so far based on the awesome stuff that's already been revealed and how in touch the development team has been with the community. In the same breathe (when I can pull it off) I end up having to caution them about SOE or Sony Execs possibly ruining the game with arbitrary game breaking decisions and how there is STILL a major outstanding issue with their region locking that has barely even been touched on.

[Vancha]

Back to topic, what are the details on the revised PSS1 deal?
Still haven't gotten them.

I'd really appreciate a timeframe for when we can expect to find out said details. How long is this expected to take? 2 weeks? 2 months? More?

[Mirror]

Still haven't gotten them.

I'd really appreciate a timeframe for when we can expect to find out said details. How long is this expected to take? 2 weeks? 2 months? More?

Yes an update would be cool as it all seems to have gone quiet.

[megamold]

yes it would be nice, this decision concerns me

[Sotonian]

Any update on this issue? this will make or break the game for at this point

[Bags]

I don't think it's going to make or break the game at all. It might make or break it for some individuals though.

[SuperMorto]

I don't think it's going to make or break the game at all. It might make or break it for some individuals though.

It wont make of break the game at all, however it will break the community into 2 pieces, the exact thing a game like this doesn't need. Its success will be down to the numbers of gamers who play and how well the community keeps it going. And the community is driven by the freedom of playing with any person you would like to from across the globe.

[Fenrys]

:spam::spam::spam:
Well???
:spam::spam::spam:

[Eyeklops]

Yes, an answer would be nice, the region lock is needed to help ensure the game plays well.

[Gandhi]

The thread on the EQ2 forums is up to 214 pages :eek:

[General M]

Unless they're initial negotiations are still ongoing ( v. unlikely), they would have some idea of what could be changed and I'm guessing from the silence, not a lot will be.

I can't see Pro7, not being a developer, really caring about upset gamers and just brushing off any detrimental change to their contract

[Bags]

It wont make of break the game at all, however it will break the community into 2 pieces, the exact thing a game like this doesn't need. Its success will be down to the numbers of gamers who play and how well the community keeps it going. And the community is driven by the freedom of playing with any person you would like to from across the globe.

Uh, the game is already going to be split amongst multiple servers.

[megamold]

Uh, the game is already going to be split amongst multiple servers.

yes, but region lock means that a EU player wont be able to play with a US player

there is nothing wrong with servers, i just want the choice to play where i want.
and if i got a lot of US friends i want to play on a US server :)

[Bags]

yes, but region lock means that a EU player wont be able to play with a US player

there is nothing wrong with servers, i just want the choice to play where i want.
and if i got a lot of US friends i want to play on a US server :)


Yes, but a region lock isn't going to divide the community in two...

[IronMole]

Yes, but a region lock isn't going to divide the community in two...

It will divide many communities...

[Bags]

It will divide many communities...

It won;'t divide the entire community into two though.

I imagine we'll have east, west USA servers, then a european one, at the very least.

[Xaine]

Still waiting on something solid.

[Skitrel]

It won;'t divide the entire community into two though.

I imagine we'll have east, west USA servers, then a european one, at the very least.

Which divides the community in two. There's a LOT of europeans that played with americans for years. People want to go back to old outfits, that is impossible if you region lock.

Not to mention it's unbelievably harsh on folks that want to be able to play with their friends if/when they're abroad. I've got a few guys in the army that I like to play battlefield with, I'd be fucking mad if Battlefield region locked me from playing with the people I want to play with.

The internet is NOT regional, gaming is not regional, imposing region locks is a terrible terrible idea, hurts customers, and hurts the game.

[Bags]

Which divides the community in two. There's a LOT of europeans that played with americans for years. People want to go back to old outfits, that is impossible if you region lock.

Not to mention it's unbelievably harsh on folks that want to be able to play with their friends if/when they're abroad. I've got a few guys in the army that I like to play battlefield with, I'd be fucking mad if Battlefield region locked me from playing with the people I want to play with.

The internet is NOT regional, gaming is not regional, imposing region locks is a terrible terrible idea, hurts customers, and hurts the game.

That's actually three.

I don't support it (I'd lovefor you to show me where I said I support this), but I'm pointing it out it is not cutting it in half

-_-

[Hamma]

We have no additional info on this topic.

[Shanesan]

We have no additional info on this topic.

You mean, PSU doesn't have spies in every nook and cranny of SoE?

What do we pay you people for?!

[Hamma]

Nope :D

[Kran De Loy]

Keeping the thread bumped up like in the EQ fansite / official forums will allow them to know we don't stand for it.

Though I would like a US server option, I want the ability to play with my crazy assed euro friends too.

This thread should be sticky'd like on several other fansites for EQ :D

Maybe not, getting people to bump the thread occasionally further acknowledges the community's demands for information.

But either way as long as we get answers for something as crucial as this as soon as possible the better.

I seriously hope they don't plan on leaving us in the dark for more than a month AGAIN.

[IronMole]

It won;'t divide the entire community into two though.

I imagine we'll have east, west USA servers, then a european one, at the very least.

Didn't say it will divide them in to two. ;)

[Vancha]

Yes, but a region lock isn't going to divide the community in two...
Actually, as an EU WoW player that plays on US servers, I'd say it will. The divide between EU and US WoW always felt much larger than the divide between Markov, Emerald and Werner in Planetside.

Here's another interesting thing though...There are multiple times I would have resubscribed to WoW to play with EU friends from other games, but didn't, because I was region locked. The region lock actually lost Blizzard at least $50 of my money and possibly far, far more (and before you say it, the same would have applied if I were locked into EU servers).

Then you have the whole dead servers at certain times of the day thing, which I must have mentioned in this thread already at some point.

[Shogun]

i find the lack of updates on this subject disturbing.

got the impression smed is trying to sit this out.
seems like they worked something out that is even worse and know that telling us the details would summon another epic bloody shitstorm, so they try if we just forget about the issue.
smed promised "more details to follow". he broke this promise.

[Monkey]

I'm probably one of the few that this won't affect much. I'm in the UK, I always played on Werner when I was playing PS1 (The time difference to the US is too much of a bother), and probably wouldn't change that in PS2. I don't like the idea though for everyone else's sake though.

[DayOne]

I'm probably one of the few that this won't affect much. I'm in the UK, I always played on Werner when I was playing PS1 (The time difference to the US is too much of a bother), and probably wouldn't change that in PS2. I don't like the idea though for everyone else's sake though.

There's probably a LOT of people it wont directly affect but it's still an issue.

Even if you just play late or midday then you could jump onto a US server and have a big pop rather than play with the 4 other people online on the EU server.

[Monkey]

True, but considering the player I am, I like playing in the same persistant world my main character is in.

[Kran De Loy]

Infos are yet to be had.

:(

[Skitrel]

That's actually three.

I don't support it (I'd lovefor you to show me where I said I support this), but I'm pointing it out it is not cutting it in half

-_-

My bad. Misread!

[Kran De Loy]

Okay's it's been 48 hours since my last post here.

Haul this thing back to the surface.

Give us INFOS!

[PredatorFour]

How long ago was it that Smed tweeted that they SOE and ProS are working sommats out ??? It is dragging on.. why is it dragging on ?? There`s gotta be a reason and i hope its for the best not the worst. Are they really still negotiating after all this time??

[Kran De Loy]

Smed tweeted that everyone could play together on Feb 27th. So three weeks ago from tomorrow.

Including GDC and understanding that these things take time is no excuse for playing mum on it entirely. Even if they're still working out all the details is no reason for him to not be able to reveal the important part to us. Just what form is this 'Everyone gets to play together' solution is going to take?

Only three reasons to not reveal that part that I can come up with.
1) He's scared that once he says something a bit more concrete PSS1 may demand that some small part of it gets changed then he'd have to take his word back for it.
2) Whatever form the solution is taking is going to just going to piss off the community all over again and PSS1 or someone else higher up than Smed is forcing him to keep a lid on it to keep the community from panicking. (Think back to Playstation Network getting hacked and they waited for a stupidly long time to make any statements about the downed service at all for a ridiculously long time).
3) There is no deal and Smed either on his own initiative or again forced by someone over his head to appease the community even if it meant having to lie through his teeth just to shut everyone up before GDC.


The first option is by and far the most likely, but that until he can tell us about the solution options 2 and 3 are still very real possibilities. Which is why I really really really really really (can't stress this enough) want to know what the hell is going on.

[megamold]

well they allready lost some money by keeping us (or me atleast) in the dark on this issue, and other issues regarding the pro7 situation

i would have gladly smacked down 100$ for some station cash with the 2x deal yesterday, but i aint spending money on things i might not be able to use so...

[SgtMAD]

you ppl let yourselves be "managed",you should have never let up until you had a concrete answer.

some PR flack advised them to make a vague statement via twitter and all the pressure dropped off.

[Hyncharas]

Part of the issues has always been a strange trading relationship between Europe and the US; all software and electronics that comes out of North America gets charged for twice when being shipped to Europe, so I guess EU countries are fighting back with their own restrictions.

The problem that should be solved is for the US government to abolish this double-charge, then players from both sides of the Atlantic wouldn't be penalised just for enjoying the same content.

[Skitrel]

well they allready lost some money by keeping us (or me atleast) in the dark on this issue, and other issues regarding the pro7 situation

i would have gladly smacked down 100$ for some station cash with the 2x deal yesterday, but i aint spending money on things i might not be able to use so...

I put money down despite being UK. If I'm not able to use it playing the US guys on their(and my own) intended server then I'll happily be reversing that payment through my bank. Nothing they can do to stop that.

I agree though. Bump for great justice, we need word on this asap. Things are far too quiet.

[Kran De Loy]

Derp. Still no infos. 3 weeks to the hour in 5 more hours. (I know it's still stupidly early here.)

Looking more and more like Smed was getting leaned on to say anything to get us to shut up for GDC.

[Shogun]

i wanted to invest in my soe account with the 24 hours of double points, but i missed out on it because of this insecure situation.

you know, reversing payments with the bank is only possible for a certain time. and nothing indicates, that we would get a detailed answer on this topic during this timeframe.

and i am sure a lot of european players missed out on this opportunity for the same reason.

if our problem with the pro7 deal was anything near to solved, soe wouldn´t have let this money opportunity go away without a notice! so my guess is, they worked something out, that will freak out the fanbase even more, and they just don´t dare to tell us! they want us to be happily playing the beta and would not tell us anything before we are all addicted to planetside 2.

if this happens, i want a shooting range in ps, and the option to put on my own pictures on the targets... and i need a photo of the guy who was responsible for this mess, or i will just use smeds pic.

[Kran De Loy]

you know, reversing payments with the bank is only possible for a certain time. and nothing indicates, that we would get a detailed answer on this topic during this timeframe.

Yeah, mine says I gotta do it in less than 10 days. :sick:

[Fenrys]

:spam::spam::spam:
To the top!
:spam::spam::spam:

[RadarX]

Unfortunately folks there just isn't any more information that can be provided at this time. A statement was made regarding region locks and there is no indication that will change. There is plenty of time before launch to resolve these issues.

[Eyeklops]

Unfortunately folks there just isn't any more information that can be provided at this time. A statement was made regarding region locks and there is no indication that will change. There is plenty of time before launch to resolve these issues.

Could you clarify which statement you are talking about, or provide a link to said statment?

[Kran De Loy]

Time to make new friends. Thanks RadarX for following up.

no no, you misunderstood him.

He was just pointing out that Smed has essentially said they've done away with the region lock and that since there is no new info at all then there is no reason to believe that Smed is lying or even just plain wrong.

I've been saying that since there is no new information there is no proof that, other then a certain level of integrity forced on people in positions of power like Smed's, there is no reason to believe that Smed is not lying.

So until someone can tell us what the revised partnership is (in regards to us) then Faith and only Faith in him is what is keeping Smed from having a 50/50 chance of being a douche or being Moses coming down off the mountain with the 10 commandments.

[Eyeklops]

no no, you misunderstood him.

He was just pointing out that Smed has essentially said they've done away with the region lock and that since there is no new info at all then there is no reason to believe that Smed is lying or even just plain wrong.


Crap, I was hoping to hear "High ping degraded gameplay too much for a AAA title and we have therefore reinstated the region lock" One can only pray John comes to his senses.

[Kran De Loy]

I really don't get what you mean with high ping.

I regularly play at work (graveyard shift so I'm not doing anything anyway) Tribes with my brother.

Stay with me here.

I play Tribes pretty regularly with my brother, now the reason I bring it up is because he has been stuck in Taiwan for the last year and even on US East servers his ping, from a tiny island off the coast of China was still under 200 in most cases. In the last few months we've noticed the lag makes things slightly more difficult for him, but really only about 0.1 to 0.2 seconds delay between when he fires a bullet and when that bullet leaves his weapon. That's all.

Not saying that PS2 will have the net code of Tribes, but I figure to us the users there'd not be much difference.

[Shanesan]

He was just pointing out that Smed has essentially said they've done away with the region lock and that since there is no new info at all then there is no reason to believe that Smed is lying or even just plain wrong.

From what I'm seeing in Radar's statement, to take it the way you're saying it is a huge stretch. Else there would be nothing to "fix" if the region locks were going to be taken off.

This is a really big deal and it needs to be dealt with. PR and the executives are playing footsie and the only people trying to give legit info are the Planetside team. Thanks RadarX!

As we've said before, Sony executives are notorious for ruining their own games. I don't see this coming out well.

[Kran De Loy]

This is a really big deal and it needs to be dealt with. PR and the executives are playing footsie and the only people trying to give legit info are the Planetside team. Thanks RadarX!

As we've said before, Sony executives are notorious for ruining their own games. I don't see this coming out well.

Yes. Entirely.

From what I'm seeing in Radar's statement, to take it the way you're saying it is a huge stretch. Else there would be nothing to "fix" if the region locks were going to be taken off.
Huh? er.. I guess I must have missed something. I'll take your word for it seeing how much I agree with the rest of your post.

[Eyeklops]

I really don't get what you mean with high ping.

ASSUMING CSHD
Ping is the built in equivalent of an automatic "lag switch" for attacking players in motion vs defending stationary players. Let's examine this very common scenario:


High ping player (HPP) comes around a corner face 2 face with a Low Ping Player (LPP)
The HPP and LPP both start an evasive strafe on contact and open fire at the same time on "thier" screen.

Now, if both are of even skill, there will either be a draw, or the HPP will win (From my experience in PS1)

Why? Because the HPP gets to shoot at a stationary LPP for that extra 1. or .2 seconds that happens because of high ping and therefore misses less bullets. Hey, who wouldn't want a target that stands still for some amount of extra time?

PS1's high TTKs and having third person mitigated this issue somewhat, but HPP's were still noticeable in another way "dying around a corner". Many times my ping to the server was 40ms or lower and I died well away from the corner because of CN players.

Now if the devs shorten the TTK and remove third person this will compound the advantage aggressive HPP's have over defensive LPP's. The game also won't feel "crisp" when fighting HPP's in general and I would expect to see new players bitching about it if the HPP's make up a large % of the server.

The only way to guard against this is to never stop moving, ever.

[ThGlump]

First thing they stated about PS2 was that there wont be CSHD. Calm down about high pings already.

[Duddy]

ASSUMING CSHD

Now I understand why you've been so fanatical about the issue.

As stated, we've been told it won't be CSHD, couldn't tell you exactly where but I am certain of it.

[Eyeklops]

First thing they stated about PS2 was that there wont be CSHD. Calm down about high pings already.
It will have to be some hybrid variation of CHSD or nobody with ping over 100ms will hit dick. I would love if PS2 used SSHD

[Duddy]

It will have to be some hybrid variation of CHSD or nobody with ping over 100ms will hit dick. I would love if PS2 used SSHD

You say this, but I've had little (not none, but negligible) issues playing SSHD based games with pings of 120-180.

That said, my experiences don't account for everyone.

[Kran De Loy]

text.

Yeah I have no idea what CSHD is. I got to the part where you said, "in PS1" and I knew you were wrong.

It's been said over and over again that PS1 is old. PS1 even when used today was not built in the last 2 years or even in the last 6.

I referenced Tribes Ascend which is a F2P game in beta atm that's actually (tho there are a lot of bits I don't like) fairly fun game. And my brother IN TAIWAN has less than 200 ping. He's on a normal residential cable connection (I think it's cable) that pretty much everyone has or can get. And the level of lag he exhibits is still well within acceptable limitations. From taiwan to US East coast servers.

Assuming that Tribes Ascend can be used as a measuring stick for modern networking then I say there is no need to worry about ping.

[Bags]

Simplified, CSHD is client side hit detection, and it's if you get a hit on your screen, it's a hit. It's why you die around corners in PS1; on their screen, you haven't gone around the corner.

[Kran De Loy]

Ah, thanks Bags.

So yeah I know that (sorry for using it so much) Tribes ascend is in no way like that. Once you click the mouse it takes a 0.1 to 0.2 second delay before the weapon reacts to your command. I've killed my self a few times from splash damage on corners because of that when I tried playing on a server in Japanland with him.

Other then that I have not noticed in any way any problems with hit detection in Tribes Ascend. Again this is assuming that Tribes can be used as a measuring stick to gauge the levels of modern networking.

[Eyeklops]

Yeah I have no idea what CSHD is. I got to the part where you said, "in PS1" and I knew you were wrong.

It's been said over and over again that PS1 is old. PS1 even when used today was not built in the last 2 years or even in the last 6.

BF3, a brand new game uses CSHD.

[Shogun]

BF3, a brand new game uses CSHD.

and it suffers from this choice.

it was already mentioned by devs that ps2 will have a new hybrid system of client and server side hit detection.

a pure clientside detection would rise the cheater-threat that is already quite high due to free to play (aimbots anyone?) and it may be laggy.

the client and serverside detection may help with the lag issues on higher pings.

but this thread is derailed!
the pro7 deal was never about ping!!! so stop throwing in this irrelevant thing into the discussion.
the playerbase doesn´t want to play on far servers to abuse high ping, they want to play with their international clans.

[Eyeklops]

and it suffers from this choice.

it was already mentioned by devs that ps2 will have a new hybrid system of client and server side hit detection.

a pure clientside detection would rise the cheater-threat that is already quite high due to free to play (aimbots anyone?) and it may be laggy.

the client and serverside detection may help with the lag issues on higher pings.

but this thread is derailed!
the pro7 deal was never about ping!!! so stop throwing in this irrelevant thing into the discussion.
the playerbase doesn´t want to play on far servers to abuse high ping, they want to play with their international clans.

Fair enough, I will back out of this issue for now. At least until I get to play and see how well the "new" system handles the HPB's. :rant:

[bjorntju1]

Unfortunately folks there just isn't any more information that can be provided at this time. A statement was made regarding region locks and there is no indication that will change. There is plenty of time before launch to resolve these issues.

What do you exactly mean? That the statement that was made (that ''everyone can play with everyone'') isn't changed. Or do you mean that the region lock itself isn't changed and will stay in place?

[ThGlump]

I just want to play away from pro7. That mean playing with high ping, unless i can play on EU servers with soe account. And that wait for final resolution is killing me. If this is how lengthly any soe/pro7 interactions are going to be, then any issue on eu servers will throw their games into garbage.

[Stew]

Iam totally for region lock servers and maybe having a few (( unlock servers for people who enjoys LAG )) But for me having a region lock servers is a must have at least north america all toguethers same for europe and same for asia I really dont want to see a 300 ping plus players in our servers one or two of these guys are anoying in most game not regions lock try to figure out how anoying it will be to figth a compleate plattoon of 50 laggy at 300 plus PING it will ruins the game for me ....

I want region lock and i suport region lock its a free to play so a lots of people will get it ...

Having both region lock and region unlock for people who want to play american vs european etc.. But the first choice go for Region lock all the way

[Eyeklops]

Iam totally for region lock servers and maybe having a few (( unlock servers for people who enjoys LAG )) But for me having a region lock servers is a must have at least north america all toguethers same for europe and same for asia I really dont want to see a 300 ping plus players in our servers one or two of these guys are anoying in most game not regions lock try to figure out how anoying it will be to figth a compleate plattoon of 50 laggy at 300 plus PING it will ruins the game for me ....

I want region lock and i suport region lock its a free to play so a lots of people will get it ...

Having both region lock and region unlock for people who want to play american vs european etc.. But the first choice go for Region lock all the way
LOL...really? I finally take down my "pro region lock" attitude, and somebody picked it up right behind me. TBH, I really thought I was alone in that fight. Good luck, haha.

[Aurmanite]

Iam totally for region lock servers and maybe having a few (( unlock servers for people who enjoys LAG )) But for me having a region lock servers is a must have at least north america all toguethers same for europe and same for asia I really dont want to see a 300 ping plus players in our servers one or two of these guys are anoying in most game not regions lock try to figure out how anoying it will be to figth a compleate plattoon of 50 laggy at 300 plus PING it will ruins the game for me ....

I want region lock and i suport region lock its a free to play so a lots of people will get it ...

Having both region lock and region unlock for people who want to play american vs european etc.. But the first choice go for Region lock all the way

It's too late for this type of gimmick, dude. This would have been an awesome first reply though.

[Stew]

It's too late for this type of gimmick, dude. This would have been an awesome first reply though.

So whats the final decision ? since the game is not even in beta yet ? What the dev team have said about thats because there is so much information about this game spread of 10 000 different sources their is no way to find all the info at one place so ...

Is there going to be region lock servers or not ?

i would like to know because a massive game exemple MAG on ps3 suffers from this Unlock servers issue Asian , european and ameriacan all toguether in one game one servers create some outrageous LAG issue .. expecially when you get a full 32 players plattoon of asian its really apinfull and hurt the game a lots ...

But now mag is pretty much dead so it need this unlock to get wnough players but for planetside since its free to play i dont see any reason to not make it regions lock ...

[StumpyTheOzzie]

I don't want to be locked in the asian region. I know there aren't many Australian players (there's only 20 million Australians in total!!!) but it's gonna SUUUUCK to be locked into a region with a language I can't speak.

[Stew]

I don't want to be locked in the asian region. I know there aren't many Australian players (there's only 20 million Australians in total!!!) but it's gonna SUUUUCK to be locked into a region with a language I can't speak.

But it also suck for 300 000 millions people to have 20 000 millions of laggy at 500 plus PING in there games ...

I think i will enjoy more to play a game at 30 to 80 ping and dont understand most of them than playing at 500ping plus to tchat with them ...

Shooters games is all about stability and gameplay and ping and FPS first after thats come comunications and team work If the game is broken full of lag there isnt any fun to have sorry but i disagree ....


Region lock is better for most people yeah some people like autralia can suffer from it but it will be free to play so you have mosre chance to get some more autralian playing it ...

[Hamma]

Unfortunately folks there just isn't any more information that can be provided at this time. A statement was made regarding region locks and there is no indication that will change. There is plenty of time before launch to resolve these issues.

Dunno what you guys are confused about.. :p

He's talking about Smed there.

As I've said numerous times in this thread.. it's not like companies can just move at light speed. There are contracts, lawyers and all sorts of fun things going on with stuff like this. When SOE is ready to make some other sort of announcement they will.. :)

[Stew]

Dunno what you guys are confused about.. :p

He's talking about Smed there.

As I've said numerous times in this thread.. it's not like companies can just move at light speed. There are contracts, lawyers and all sorts of fun things going on with stuff like this. When SOE is ready to make some other sort of announcement they will.. :)

yeah but anyones have seen any confirmation or annoncement about how the servers infrastructures will work ? are we going to have a compleate chaos like all regions mix and mash toguether ?

or are we going to have regions restricted and regions open servers ?

[ThGlump]

Only Smed knows.

You asking too much. Thats the informations we are crying here for. We want to know it too.

[Shogun]

oh boy... another one who doesn´t know what this thread is all about...

you don´t know a thing about how lag will be taken care of in planetside 2!
in beta we will see how it works out because i doubt there will be more than one beta server and we will play on it from all over the world.

don´t compare to older games that use just clientside hit detection! their problems may not apply to ps2!

but no matter how the ping affects gameplay or not, locked servers WILL affect the majority of players in a negative way. i´m not going to repeat the reasons again and again. this thread has over one thousand answers and most of them are about this problems

[sylphaen]

But it also suck for 300 000 millions people to have 20 000 millions of laggy at 500 plus PING in there games ...

Slight approximations...
:rofl:

[StumpyTheOzzie]

300 billion players?

We're gonna need more servers.

[Stew]

oh boy... another one who doesn´t know what this thread is all about...

you don´t know a thing about how lag will be taken care of in planetside 2!
in beta we will see how it works out because i doubt there will be more than one beta server and we will play on it from all over the world.

don´t compare to older games that use just clientside hit detection! their problems may not apply to ps2!

but no matter how the ping affects gameplay or not, locked servers WILL affect the majority of players in a negative way. i´m not going to repeat the reasons again and again. this thread has over one thousand answers and most of them are about this problems


Region lock is a good thing for most people north american play with north american , european with euro , asian with asian , In bf3 i will never ever choose a servers where the ping is over 100 just to play with the european people !

Most people have friends on there continents thats a facts only few people want to play with some friends across the globe most people want to have a lag free experience and play with their friends neigbourg etc..


its very wrong to say that it will punish most people ...

For most is a benefits in term of game stability ...

The only way thats it can punish everybody its If the player cap is so low thats u cant even fill a servers in every regions of the wold so yes you have to deal with multiple region mash in a gigantic servers ...

But if the players cap is very high in every regions there is no reason to not region block the servers it will just improove the game stability ...

because a few laggy in a game just make the entire game unstable with there broken package in and out ....

So if possible i would like to have region lock and region free servers

[Kran De Loy]

Keeping some unlocked servers has been suggested multiple times throughout this very thread. In various forms.

Anyway, back to main topic. Like Hamma said corps don't work at light speed. It took them, what? 6 weeks from when the partnership was signed to when they announced it to the public.

TBH, this revised partnership deal that allows everyone to play on any server shouldn't take another 6 weeks to get to us about how it's been fixed.

Unless of course this region locking was some kind of keystone to the entire partnership, which says to me two things.

1) a good reason why region locking made it all the way to the end and was announced to us at all seeing how brain dead someone would need to be to NOT expect the community to react to it like it did. If it was a big part of how the partnership would work in the first place I can easily see why it took the outrage of the entire community to change any of the executive's minds.

and 2) As I implied above, that the executives that made Region Locking as a cornerstone to the deal are completely brain dead. Or at least when it comes to managing their own games they are.

If however that Region Locking was not a major part of the SOE/PSS1 deal then the longer they make us wait for the revised statements the more it shows that similar delays are to be expected whenever any other situations that need to be resolved between SOE and PSS1 arise. Like basic customer service or localizations.

Regardless of either case (since we'll never really know really) the longer they wait the more they're hurting their own image before the game even has a chance to take it's first breath.

[Eyeklops]

oh boy... another one who doesn´t know what this thread is all about...

but no matter how the ping affects gameplay or not, locked servers WILL affect the majority of players in a negative way.

Although I have somewhat stepped back in my advocating of having a region lock, I am not sure that you can accurately support this claim either.

From what I have been seeing, most of the people that are against the region lock are the people who still play PS1 and have created friends "across the pond." To be fair, there appears to also be a vocal minority in a few other areas of the world that are against it, as well as some sympathetic friends. But how many people do you think that really is in total? 10,000? Lets double that for good measure, 20,000 people would be a generous number don't you think? Feel free to add your own speculated number, to disagree with my speculated number.

Now..how many new people do you think will sign up for a F2P AAA FPS title? 1,000,000? Lets divide that speculation by 4 just to be safe and say 250,000 new players. I can't imagine SOE would be investing so much energy for less than that amount of players.

These new 250,000 players probably won't have this "overseas" bond. They will most likely be coming from other AAA FPS titles where the general rule of thumb is play on the lowest ping server. I highly doubt they will have much sympathy for the anti region lock cause.

Putting all this speculation together, one could reason the new players are the majority. And one could reason that the majority would dislike people not playing on the proper server for that region. Therefore the majority may feel that NOT having a region lock will effect them in a negative way.

I highlighted the above words, fragments, and punctuation to point out the effort I made to avoid "fallacies of reasoning (http://www.nobeliefs.com/fallacies.htm)." Learning how to structure posts without falling prey to these common reasoning mistakes usually reduces the amount of non-constructive argument from the people who passed reading comprehension in high school.

[NivexQ]

(post above me)

I've been playing games with europeans for a while now. Server merge just increased the occurance a little.

[Kran De Loy]

Yarp. Which is a big reason why a lot of people have advocated for locked servers as well as unlocked servers.

It would, if nothing else, at least test the waters to see which one not only gets the most players but also which one gets the most action (read as a combination of Use and Unexpected Consequences That Has Everyone Going WHHHHHOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAA)

Either way, the more happy people they have the more money they'll generate and the more free advertisement from word of mouth.

The longer this gets dragged out the worse the indication it becomes of the general levels of communication that goes on at the top of SOE and PSS1.

[Vancha]

Region lock is a good thing for most people north american play with north american , european with euro , asian with asian , In bf3 i will never ever choose a servers where the ping is over 100 just to play with the european people !

Most people have friends on there continents thats a facts only few people want to play with some friends across the globe most people want to have a lag free experience and play with their friends neigbourg etc..
Out of curiosity, where do you hail from?

For an MMO, region lock is not a good thing. MMOs benefit from more people and MMOs benefit from multiple timezones. Region locks can create dead servers at certain times of day. Now, if you'd read the thread at all, you'd be aware that plenty of us Euros played on US PS1 servers with a sub-100 ping. That was years ago and internet infrastructure is only going to get better (unless there's a economic apocalypse...Or an actual apocalypse).

"Most people have friends on there continents thats a facts"? What is this, 2002? If that's a fact, prove it. Link me sources.

I'd consider multinational gaming communities in this day and age to be normal and I'd guess they're probably the majority. Think about all the communities in Battlefield, CoD, Tribes, Dust514 etc. who might consider moving their people over to Planetside 2, only to discover they can't play together, so they decide they'll stay where they are. Think about all the people who make friends across continents in other games, and one invites the other to play PS2 with them, but wait, they're segregated (this has lost multiple games my money).

We know the netcode will be better than PS1, and lets face it, the EU players on US servers or the US players on EU servers will be a minority, so even if they did lag (which they shouldn't), it wouldn't be particularly badly, it wouldn't particularly effect the game, and even if by some stroke of coincidence it happened to tip a single confrontation in one side's favour, it wouldn't be the decider of a war over a base or a piece of territory, which is what Planetside's really about.

More players will always be preferable to a game like Planetside than a minority of people who might lag ever, ever so slightly. The only reason to consider region locking is if the lag from people playing overseas would be so horrendous as to make more people leave the game than region locking would, which really, really shouldn't be the case.

[Shade Millith]

Although I have somewhat stepped back in my advocating of having a region lock, I am not sure that you can accurately support this claim either.

From what I have been seeing, most of the people that are against the region lock are the people who still play PS1 and have created friends "across the pond." To be fair, there appears to also be a vocal minority in a few other areas of the world that are against it, as well as some sympathetic friends. But how many people do you think that really is in total? 10,000? Lets double that for good measure, 20,000 people would be a generous number don't you think? Feel free to add your own speculated number, to disagree with my speculated number.

Now..how many new people do you think will sign up for a F2P AAA FPS title? 1,000,000? Lets divide that speculation by 4 just to be safe and say 250,000 new players. I can't imagine SOE would be investing so much energy for less than that amount of players.

These new 250,000 players probably won't have this "overseas" bond. They will most likely be coming from other AAA FPS titles where the general rule of thumb is play on the lowest ping server. I highly doubt they will have much sympathy for the anti region lock cause.

Putting all this speculation together, one could reason the new players are the majority. And one could reason that the majority would dislike people not playing on the proper server for that region. Therefore the majority may feel that NOT having a region lock will effect them in a negative way.

I highlighted the above words, fragments, and punctuation to point out the effort I made to avoid "fallacies of reasoning (http://www.nobeliefs.com/fallacies.htm)." Learning how to structure posts without falling prey to these common reasoning mistakes usually reduces the amount of non-constructive argument from the people who passed reading comprehension in high school.

This isn't just a PS2 thing. This is effecting ALL their games. EverQuest 2 community is going batshit over this. Why? Because it is an arbitrary splitting up of the community and friends. For absolutely no benefit to the community.

I have plenty of friends in multiple countries that I'm eager to play with, and they're eager to play with me and each other.

If SOE tell us we can't play together, because they want more money, then we will go elsewhere and find another game.

[Skitrel]

Region lock is a good thing for most people north american play with north american , european with euro , asian with asian , In bf3 i will never ever choose a servers where the ping is over 100 just to play with the european people !

Firstly, I'm from Britain, I ping east coast servers in BF3 at around 50-80.

Most people have friends on there continents thats a facts only few people want to play with some friends across the globe most people want to have a lag free experience and play with their friends neigbourg etc..

What year do you live in? Most of us have spent 15+years at the least building up our networks of friends, guilds, clans. Some of us have competed in the WCG in various games over the years, many people have competed in multiple leagues all over the world, others simply have various friends from various guilds the world over. The only people that have friends that are ONLY local to them are people that haven't been gaming for very long and have never really gamed with people outside of their real life social circles.


its very wrong to say that it will punish most people ...

It will punish every single outfit that has anyone at all outside of their region.
It will punish every single person that has any friends at all that have moved country in their lifetime.
It will punish every single person that serves in the military, not being able to connect to US servers while in service (yes they do get to game in their off hours).
It will punish a ludicrous number of people.

For most is a benefits in term of game stability ...

Are you a developer? From what experience do you say this from? From what technical standpoint?

Speaking from actual knowledge of this subject. It is a fucking MYTH that high ping users on a server cause everyone on a server to have a higher ping, I'd love for someone to attempt to argue with this and explain why, I will get a considerable laugh out of it.

The only person that suffers a slightly lower game quality is the person out of country. Nobody else.


because a few laggy in a game just make the entire game unstable with there broken package in and out ....

Lmfao. This is hilarious. Do go into more detail.

Sure, if we were all still playing UT and Quake the argument for region lockdowns would be correct, netcode has come a long way since then though, one person's lag does not cause everyone else to lag.

[Coreldan]

I found a spot in your post that doesnt apply to me Skitrel :D

Been online gaming for the odd 15 years or something now, I've played very little online with my RL friends (only really got one gamer friend RL), yet I do not have friends on other continents I would consider playing with.

Although to be fair, I did play a game called Tibia 6-7 years or so on an US server (the name of the server sounded cool lol) so I did make a lot of international friends there, but I stopped playing so long ago and so did these friends that I dont really have any connections to them nowadays.

I've intentionally kept my gaming friends from the EU. I found it hilarious for example when APB was about to come out and people were making international clans and then were surprised that there were different servers for each continent. How can you be surprised about that?

In terms of PS1 though I understand why and how people have made strong bonds over to "wrong continents", perhaps EVE online is a good exception too, but baseline is that no, you do not have to be a new online gamer or just stick with your RL friends to not have strong bonds to another continent :D

I sadly didn't find out about Planetside until 2010 (tells how well it was marketed when an avid gamer like me didnt hear about it until 7 years of its release), which probably does explain why I don't really have any major bonds to the NA anymore. Even in EVE Online I joined an EU corp just for these reasons.

[Skitrel]

Hmm, interesting. Most people tend to end up with tonnes of crossover due to playing with various guilds/clans or in Planetside's case, outfits. I find it a rarity that people don't at least know 1 person in their community that's out of country.

Take this forum for example, I'm damn sure many people here would love to play with one another, I'd be happy to shoot some heads off with you for example Coreldan, and I'd like to have the option to shoot anyone's head off given the choice too.

There's also another fundamental issue here. The PS team clearly have intentions of making a go of PS2 in the esports field. Someone mentioned it being impossible over on reddit and Higby's response was "Says you", clearly indicating their intentions. Region locking when you want to do esports is absolutely ludicrous, you basically disallow euros from competing with Americans? That splits the competitive community in half and never ever allows the two from truly discovering or proving who the best is. Worse if you further cut it up into even more communities. The best BF team worldwide right now for example happens to be a euro team.

Region locking limits the game, limiting the game is a bad thing. If SOE have intentions of the game being AAA then they should be staying away from absolutely anything that does that. Even more so - they should be doing absolutely everything they can to maintain THEIR control over the game, not passing off server control to other companies. When other companies have a different motivation it'll be a recipe for disaster.

I probably speak from a slightly biased position, but I at least fill the esports experience category, having had tonnes of fun playing competitively in loads of games over the years.

[Coreldan]

Im not pro-region lock or anything nor do I have experience with e sports, but is e-sports viable if/when the other team has double the latency? Like, if the competition is hosted in NA and some EU team takes part.

[Eyeklops]

Firstly, I'm from Britain, I ping east coast servers in BF3 at around 50-80. Ok, I see your point. No region lock, instead lets have a ping limiter.


It will punish every single outfit that has anyone at all outside of their region.
It will punish every single person that has any friends at all that have moved country in their lifetime.
It will punish every single person that serves in the military, not being able to connect to US servers while in service (yes they do get to game in their off hours).
It will punish a ludicrous number of people.
The only person that suffers a slightly lower game quality is the person out of country. Nobody else.
Please stop speaking in absolutes like you are an authority. And if you are an authority please provide reference data, preferably links to technical articles. To me, most of your posts seem intelligent, but making statements of unfounded fact may only serve to water down your arguments.


Are you a developer? From what experience do you say this from? From what technical standpoint? A statement like this can easily be turned around onto yourself. Calling out another persons credentials usually works best when you supply yours at the same time.

[Skitrel]

Usually it's a none-issue, anything below 150ms these days is perfectly acceptable and the difference is completely negligible the majority of the time. There was once a time where this mattered, when fps games were ludicrously fast back in the days of Quake and UT. But by comparison these days BF and Cod are a fifth of the speed and latency has nowhere near the same effect on who the winners are.

Most people that play competitive understand this. Most of the time any latency complaints are just people trying to find excuses to blame when the reality is that they played poorly. Good example of this was Epsilon vs RivaL, which happened on a US server yet Epsilon dominated them. These days it's just not really something that plays enough of a part to be a bother to competitive play. The bigger worry is in the fact that stopping hacking in these online competitive things is almost impossible, things like mouse drivers being able to contain macros now make it impossible to stop recoil cheating and the like.

[Stew]

Firstly, I'm from Britain, I ping east coast servers in BF3 at around 50-80.



What year do you live in? Most of us have spent 15+years at the least building up our networks of friends, guilds, clans. Some of us have competed in the WCG in various games over the years, many people have competed in multiple leagues all over the world, others simply have various friends from various guilds the world over. The only people that have friends that are ONLY local to them are people that haven't been gaming for very long and have never really gamed with people outside of their real life social circles.




It will punish every single outfit that has anyone at all outside of their region.
It will punish every single person that has any friends at all that have moved country in their lifetime.
It will punish every single person that serves in the military, not being able to connect to US servers while in service (yes they do get to game in their off hours).
It will punish a ludicrous number of people.



Are you a developer? From what experience do you say this from? From what technical standpoint?

Speaking from actual knowledge of this subject. It is a fucking MYTH that high ping users on a server cause everyone on a server to have a higher ping, I'd love for someone to attempt to argue with this and explain why, I will get a considerable laugh out of it.

The only person that suffers a slightly lower game quality is the person out of country. Nobody else.




Lmfao. This is hilarious. Do go into more detail.

Sure, if we were all still playing UT and Quake the argument for region lockdowns would be correct, netcode has come a long way since then though, one person's lag does not cause everyone else to lag.

The facts is thats agains all the thing thats you name are for a few minority and not for the majority how many people thats you personally know who have best friends living in another continents ?

Most people have their friends around them or at least on the same continents i have a very few online european friends because i dont want to go play in EU servers so i make friends mostly in US and canada and my friends live near by me ...

It willl ((( punish )) like u said a few minority and thats the truth i know you guys can speak loud because it dosent fit whats you personally want ...

but the facts is thats NEw tech or New netcode will not change ping (( Bullets compensation systhem )) Make laggy people to get a advantage over NOn laggy folk ... So ur arguments is invalid

Playing agains an east based american in a east based servers will result in BF3 in a better experience more fluid and enjoyable and fair competitive experience ...Having a few european in our easter servers make the game unstable frustrating and anoying ...

Thats all you talk about Old games like UT and quake can you name a SINGLE game thats fit ur concept or (( the new futur of the super net code of the futur ))) ?

Ive never seen a single game thats have a net code thats make a multi continents experience enjoyable In a first personne shooter and even in a MMO rpg ive never seen thats those experience always result in a unstable unpredictable laggy experience

Thats all whats iam asking for ?

LOCK servers for those who want them and UNLOCK servers for the few folk who want to play multi region whith their exile friends !

[Stew]

Although I have somewhat stepped back in my advocating of having a region lock, I am not sure that you can accurately support this claim either.

From what I have been seeing, most of the people that are against the region lock are the people who still play PS1 and have created friends "across the pond." To be fair, there appears to also be a vocal minority in a few other areas of the world that are against it, as well as some sympathetic friends. But how many people do you think that really is in total? 10,000? Lets double that for good measure, 20,000 people would be a generous number don't you think? Feel free to add your own speculated number, to disagree with my speculated number.

Now..how many new people do you think will sign up for a F2P AAA FPS title? 1,000,000? Lets divide that speculation by 4 just to be safe and say 250,000 new players. I can't imagine SOE would be investing so much energy for less than that amount of players.

These new 250,000 players probably won't have this "overseas" bond. They will most likely be coming from other AAA FPS titles where the general rule of thumb is play on the lowest ping server. I highly doubt they will have much sympathy for the anti region lock cause.

Putting all this speculation together, one could reason the new players are the majority. And one could reason that the majority would dislike people not playing on the proper server for that region. Therefore the majority may feel that NOT having a region lock will effect them in a negative way.

I highlighted the above words, fragments, and punctuation to point out the effort I made to avoid "fallacies of reasoning (http://www.nobeliefs.com/fallacies.htm)." Learning how to structure posts without falling prey to these common reasoning mistakes usually reduces the amount of non-constructive argument from the people who passed reading comprehension in high school.

THUMB up (Y) well said bro !:)

[megamold]

Although I have somewhat stepped back in my advocating of having a region lock, I am not sure that you can accurately support this claim either.

From what I have been seeing, most of the people that are against the region lock are the people who still play PS1 and have created friends "across the pond." To be fair, there appears to also be a vocal minority in a few other areas of the world that are against it, as well as some sympathetic friends. But how many people do you think that really is in total? 10,000? Lets double that for good measure, 20,000 people would be a generous number don't you think? Feel free to add your own speculated number, to disagree with my speculated number.

Now..how many new people do you think will sign up for a F2P AAA FPS title? 1,000,000? Lets divide that speculation by 4 just to be safe and say 250,000 new players. I can't imagine SOE would be investing so much energy for less than that amount of players.

These new 250,000 players probably won't have this "overseas" bond. They will most likely be coming from other AAA FPS titles where the general rule of thumb is play on the lowest ping server. I highly doubt they will have much sympathy for the anti region lock cause.

Putting all this speculation together, one could reason the new players are the majority. And one could reason that the majority would dislike people not playing on the proper server for that region. Therefore the majority may feel that NOT having a region lock will effect them in a negative way.

I highlighted the above words, fragments, and punctuation to point out the effort I made to avoid "fallacies of reasoning (http://www.nobeliefs.com/fallacies.htm)." Learning how to structure posts without falling prey to these common reasoning mistakes usually reduces the amount of non-constructive argument from the people who passed reading comprehension in high school.

you make a very good point, and i would tend to agree.
i'm not 100% for region locking, but i can see where the devs are coming from.

i think my worries come from the region locking combined with the pro7 thing.
in any case, region locking is not gonna stop me from playing, i'll most likely just have less fun the first few months.
i'll probably look up the server the ps1 EU vets are on, and join that server ( if there will be multiple EU servers )
i wanna serve under someone with experience :)

[Skitrel]

The facts is thats agains all the thing thats you name are for a few minority and not for the majority how many people thats you personally know who have best friends living in another continents ?

Most people have their friends around them or at least on the same continents i have a very few online european friends because i dont want to go play in EU servers so i make friends mostly in US and canada and my friends live near by me ...

It willl ((( punish )) like u said a few minority and thats the truth i know you guys can speak loud because it dosent fit whats you personally want ...

but the facts is thats NEw tech or New netcode will not change ping (( Bullets compensation systhem )) Make laggy people to get a advantage over NOn laggy folk ... So ur arguments is invalid

Playing agains an east based american in a east based servers will result in BF3 in a better experience more fluid and enjoyable and fair competitive experience ...Having a few european in our easter servers make the game unstable frustrating and anoying ...

Thats all you talk about Old games like UT and quake can you name a SINGLE game thats fit ur concept or (( the new futur of the super net code of the futur ))) ?

Ive never seen a single game thats have a net code thats make a multi continents experience enjoyable In a first personne shooter and even in a MMO rpg ive never seen thats those experience always result in a unstable unpredictable laggy experience

Thats all whats iam asking for ?

LOCK servers for those who want them and UNLOCK servers for the few folk who want to play multi region whith their exile friends !

If you're not going to take the time to write coherently, I'm not going to take the time to read what you write, and neither will anyone else on the forums for that matter. Dis iz not facebook bruv. Nor is it a text message. Take the time to spell and write coherently.

At a glance I noticed "ur argument is invalid" somewhere in the middle though, that's more than enough to destroy your credibility and respect on the forum permanently. Grow up.

[Stew]

Hmm, interesting. Most people tend to end up with tonnes of crossover due to playing with various guilds/clans or in Planetside's case, outfits. I find it a rarity that people don't at least know 1 person in their community that's out of country.

Take this forum for example, I'm damn sure many people here would love to play with one another, I'd be happy to shoot some heads off with you for example Coreldan, and I'd like to have the option to shoot anyone's head off given the choice too.

There's also another fundamental issue here. The PS team clearly have intentions of making a go of PS2 in the esports field. Someone mentioned it being impossible over on reddit and Higby's response was "Says you", clearly indicating their intentions. Region locking when you want to do esports is absolutely ludicrous, you basically disallow euros from competing with Americans? That splits the competitive community in half and never ever allows the two from truly discovering or proving who the best is. Worse if you further cut it up into even more communities. The best BF team worldwide right now for example happens to be a euro team.

Region locking limits the game, limiting the game is a bad thing. If SOE have intentions of the game being AAA then they should be staying away from absolutely anything that does that. Even more so - they should be doing absolutely everything they can to maintain THEIR control over the game, not passing off server control to other companies. When other companies have a different motivation it'll be a recipe for disaster.

I probably speak from a slightly biased position, but I at least fill the esports experience category, having had tonnes of fun playing competitively in loads of games over the years.

WHen you planned to Esports a game u must have the most robust and stable infrastructure ! Did you think the pro gamers will make competition with some folk with 300 + ping in a LAN competition ?

Its almost 0 ping if euro players want to Esports agains american and vice versa they have to moove themself the another continent competition

Its like if a european poker players want to play pro poker at las vegas he will have to moove from monaco to las vegas ! Same for Esports

More competitive is the game better the connection and ping requirement should be !

And you can have best euro players nest Na players and best asian players but you cant mix them all in a LAG fest to play in a pro circuit expecially with those numbers like 2000 players ? try to figure out 10 laggy thats you shoot but dont die another guy with a good ping shoot you while you try to kill a guys thats actually is not anymore where you shoot at him ... the guys with a good ping will take you out and this will result in a unfair (( lucky or unlucky )) frustrating experience based on luck and not on skills ...

More stability is more skills wise lowest ping = more skills based more fair and more enjoyable

[Duddy]

I'm sorry Stew, but your writing style makes your posts a chore to read. I apologise if English is perhaps not your first language, but if it is then you really need to expend some more effort in communicating clearly.

As for what you're saying, I understand your conjecture and the perspective you seem to be talking from. But what you say is not explicitly true.

Probably THE biggest E-Sport title out there at the moment, Starcraft 2, regularly has tournaments that have international players. This said, they do also have tournaments specific to region.

When it comes to competitive play, which is to say where there is a prize (more likely monetary) on the line, then I think anyone would understand attempting to normalise conditions to create the best environment for competition.

However, modern technology does allow for international play and despite your doubts there are games that allow for free play between different regions. And in a context that isn't "professional" it isn't such a big issue.

To talk about an example I have personal experience with, Global Agenda allows you to freely choose which region you play in and from what I heard, Tribes Ascend (also by HiRez Studios) allows for this too.

As others have noted, it is the player playing outside of their regions that will suffer the ill effects of their decision, not so much the native players. This may have been the case in the days where we relied on CSHD, but in the age of SSHD and hybridised models it really doesn't work how you perceive it to.

Naturally, we have no way to judge how it will work/behave in PS2, so perhaps you should wait and see before declaring it won't work.