Prosieben is listening to the European Community

[somers]

http://i39.tinypic.com/jrptlc.jpg

As I see it now, we are still wondering exactly what prosieben is doing and whether or not SOE is just trying to make more money without thinking of their fans... John Smedley is probably organizing a meeting with Prosieben now and discussing the current situation. NO NEED TO DO ANYTHING STUPID YET!!! (deleting your SOE account...) JUST WAIT FOR MORE INFO!!!!

[DayOne]

I just hope this means that SOE and Pro7 have gone "Oh shit" at the community's feedback and are going to do something about it.

So long as they lift the region lock and it doesn't affect beta access due to location then I can deal with it.

[somers]

I just hope this means that SOE and Pro7 have gone "Oh shit" at the community's feedback and are going to do something about it.

Me too, me too...

[Figment]

I just hope this means that SOE and Pro7 have gone "Oh shit" at the community's feedback and are going to do something about it.

So long as they lift the region lock and it doesn't affect beta access due to location then I can deal with it.

AND if they promise not to interfere with the content we get from SOE patches beyond localisation (text).

I don't trust a company that made a f2p game into a pay to win game before if there are no contractual bonds that prevent them from doing so again.

[Gandhi]

I just hope this means that SOE and Pro7 have gone "Oh shit" at the community's feedback and are going to do something about it.

Yeah, because nobody at SOE could have predicted that the community would respond negatively to this little announcement. :rolleyes:

[somers]

AND if they promise not to interfere with the content we get from SOE patches beyond localisation (text).

I don't trust a company that made a f2p game into a pay to win game before if there are no contractual bonds that prevent them from doing so again.

I get what you are saying in your first fragment and agree, but can you reword the second? I don't understand...

[Wakken]

I just hope this means that SOE and Pro7 have gone "Oh shit" at the community's feedback and are going to do something about it.

So long as they lift the region lock and it doesn't affect beta access due to location then I can deal with it.

I hope the same. And hopefully SOE will take EU too... I dont want no sucky community service! I've had enough of that bs

[DayOne]

I get what you are saying in your first fragment and agree, but can you reword the second? I don't understand...

He means that they made games so that you have to pay money to get the best items and you can't do shit if you try to play fully for free.

[somers]

He means that they made games so that you have to pay money to get the best items and you can't do shit if you try to play fully for free.

Ah ok, so basically most "F2P" games. Except Higby already stated all buy-able stuff will only be for aesthetics.

[Figment]

Ah ok, so basically most "F2P" games. Except Higby already stated all buy-able stuff will only be for aesthetics.

Yes, which was the case with the IP they "adapted" over time as well, because they didn't get enough money out of the cosmetic sales.

http://mmohuts.com/editorials/alaplaya-how-to-ruin-an-arena-shooter

Ironically, this article on MMOhuts was probably never read as often as today. >_>

[somers]

Yes, which was the case with the IP they "adapted" over time as well, because they didn't get enough money out of the cosmetic sales.

http://mmohuts.com/editorials/alaplaya-how-to-ruin-an-arena-shooter

Ironically, this article on MMOhuts was probably never read as often as today. >_>

Now i get it, but only after a long time of not gaining any money would SOE pull something like this. PS2 will definitely outsell PS1 due to all the coverage and SOE will be raking in money for a while before pulling a dickmove on the community.

[Figment]

Now i get it, but only after a long time of not gaining any money would SOE pull something like this. PS2 will definitely outsell PS1 due to all the coverage and SOE will be raking in money for a while before pulling a dickmove on the community.

SOE yes, Alaplaya though? If they have the right to adjust content...

- WHICH THEY MIGHT BASED ON THE FAQ: "Looking ahead, SOE and ProSiebenSat.1 Games will closely monitor the needs and wishes of local communities to bring special content as appropriate to European players." -

...then we may have a problem when Alaplaya is simply not content with the volume of cash coming out of the percentage they get off SOE for sales.

[Dart]

Now i get it, but only after a long time of not gaining any money would SOE pull something like this. PS2 will definitely outsell PS1 due to all the coverage and SOE will be raking in money for a while before pulling a dickmove on the community.

What Figgy is saying, and until we know more he could well be right, is that depending on what Soe has agreed to, Pro7 could be able to change prices, item values or specs in the cash shop at will, solely for Eu players. If such a deal has been struck (there is no real way of knowing until the game is released and we can compare the products) then with their past history you could expect Pro7 to abuse that power to make as much money out of us as ossible, even while damaging the game!

[Raymac]

SOE yes, Alaplaya though? If they have the right to adjust content...

- WHICH THEY MIGHT BASED ON THE FAQ: "Looking ahead, SOE and ProSiebenSat.1 Games will closely monitor the needs and wishes of local communities to bring special content as appropriate to European players." -

...then we may have a problem when Alaplaya is simply not content with the volume of cash coming out of the percentage they get off SOE for sales.

That is a worrying part of this arrangement. However, I would hope that SOE would still be able to keep some control over their Intellectual Property. If Pro7 started doing things that damaged the name of Planetside and SOE, then it's reasonable to think that SOE would have the ability to take a course of action to correct that.

[Sabrak]

Dude, you can't SERIOUSLY believe that because John Smedley said they'll talk to Pro7, that their plans will change and that everything will be alright.
Come on... It's Smed we're talking about!

The deal is concluded, the terms of their partnership are most probably sealed, it's not because Smed says "we're listening" that they will actually act.

Telling people you're listening to their complains is the lesson 1 in "Handling a crisis for Dummies".
Lesson 2 is about convincingly telling people you're fixing everything when you're not even planning on acting.

[Dart]

That is a worrying part of this arrangement. However, I would hope that SOE would still be able to keep some control over their Intellectual Property. If Pro7 started doing things that damaged the name of Planetside and SOE, then it's reasonable to think that SOE would have the ability to take a course of action to correct that.

It really all depends on what has been agreed in the contract. SOE would only have that snooty if they chose to retain it during negotiations and we've already read that Pro7 understand the value of buying such privileges from a developer. I guess we'd better hope Smed was able to turn down whatever extra money was on the table in order to remain in some kind of control over the EU side of the company. Although judging by the tone of the Pro7 press release which Figgy was just quoting "special EU content" I'd say out sounds more likely that Smed sold it when he saw all those dollar signs!

[Figment]

Granted, "special EU content" may also simply refer to something harmless like specific cosmetics or events (as I mentioned in another thread... lederhosen beerfests - I mean those guys ARE situated in Munich).

However, if it's not properly sealed contractually, interpretation may cause problems. And remember, it's not the baby of these guys, it's their new cash cow. They have different emotions, motives and ethics regarding the properties they acquire.

[somers]

Dude, you can't SERIOUSLY believe that because John Smedley said they'll talk to Pro7, that their plans will change and that everything will be alright.
Come on... It's Smed we're talking about!

The deal is concluded, the terms of their partnership are most probably sealed, it's not because Smed says "we're listening" that they will actually act.

Telling people you're listening to their complains is the lesson 1 in "Handling a crisis for Dummies".
Lesson 2 is about convincingly telling people you're fixing everything when you're not even planning on acting.

Yeah that's nice and all but can you be any more of a pessimist? Be constructive not destructive... There is a possibility they will at least revise the current plans.

[Dart]

Granted, "special EU content" may also simply refer to something harmless like specific cosmetics or events (as I mentioned in another thread... lederhosen beerfests - I mean those guys ARE situated in Munich).

However, if it's not properly sealed contractually, interpretation may cause problems. And remember, it's not the baby of these guys, it's their new cash cow. They have different emotions, motives and ethics regarding the properties they acquire.

Yeah, ethics is exactly the word I'd use too. And based on the research I've done today, if Soe have sold the rights for Pro7 to introduce their own content to the game, do not be surprised to see extortionate game-breaking items and real cash costs for even threw most basic of tasks. If the way they've handled the EU version of S4 League is any indication that is exactly what we're looking at. I don't want to borrow trouble and hopefully this won't be an issue but everyone should understand the stakes here.

[Sabrak]

Yeah that's nice and all but can you be any more of a pessimist? Be constructive not destructive... There is a possibility they will at least revise the current plans.

I think you're actually dreaming, man.

Being optimistic is a good thing.
Not understanding that a deal is a deal, and that both sides won't pass on the money they are expecting to get, that's living in CareBears-Land.

Also, it's not like if it was the first time SOE and Smed messed up with their player base.
And you know what? They never gave a damn shit.

[somers]

I think you're actually dreaming, man.

Being optimistic is a good thing.
Not understanding that a deal is a deal, and that both sides won't pass on the money they are expecting to get, that's living in CareBears-Land.

Also, it's not like if it was the first time SOE and Smed messed up with their player base.
And you know what? They never gave a damn shit.

Yes, but the community gives a shit and if they act out, it will cost Smedley money. Then you bet your ass he will listen to us.

[Dart]

Yeah that's nice and all but can you be any more of a pessimist? Be constructive not destructive... There is a possibility they will at least revise the current plans.

Regarding Smed's response I'm afraid I think Sabrak has the truth of it. None of us know the details of the agreement which is in place but I highly doubt anyone is going to revise anything until they've at least given it a try. Let me put it this way (and posse don't think I'm being pessimistic, you genuinely will not find a more ardent fan of ps than me) but do you really think either pro7 or soe didn't expect this reaction? They knew they were going to get out and they're just hoping it'll die down soon enough that it doesn't disrupt anthony they have planned. Anthony they tell us right now must be taken with a table spoonful of salt!

[somers]

Regarding Smed's response I'm afraid I think Sabrak has the truth of it. None of us know the details of the agreement which is in place but I highly doubt anyone is going to revise anything until they've at least given it a try. Let me put it this way (and posse don't think I'm being pessimistic, you genuinely will not find a more ardent fan of ps than me) but do you really think either pro7 or soe didn't expect this reaction? They knew they were going to get out and they're just hoping it'll die down soon enough that it doesn't disrupt anthony they have planned. Anthony they tell us right now must be taken with a table spoonful of salt!

I suppose you are right then... but we should seriously wait before judging even based on past experiences with Smedley and SOE.

[Dart]

I suppose you are right then... but we should seriously wait before judging even based on past experiences with Smedley and SOE.

Well and here is the issue (and my final post of the night) there is nothing we can do, but wait. All of our complaining and moaning will do nothing, the idea that SOE actually want our feedback is also absurd, they just want us to feel like we matter (which we obviously don't) so we have two choices. Either a) wait and just accept whatever happens to the game we love, with the knowledge that we could possibly watch it get eviscerated by some media corporation who doesn't give a shit about PlanetSide and even less of one about us. Or b) wait until the time comes and then try like hell to get out from under this second-rate German TV channel doing their 'amateur-hour MMO publisher impersonation' and get onto one of the US servers with the rest of your clan.

As you might have guessed, I've already made my choice.

[Death2All]

http://i39.tinypic.com/jrptlc.jpg


Yep, this game is screwed.

[HoovesMcG]

I only played PS1 on a free trial (as I morally object to subscription fees). But when I did play I was taken under wing by a mostly BRIT outfit.

I was looking forward to PS2 as a new game to get away from EA's disgrace BF3. But all I see here is the SAME BS that EA pulled with BF3, not the splitting the community part, but the BS line of "Oh we are listening" and then they go and do EVERYTHING the community begged for them not to do. For no apperant reason other than a suit told the devs to.

These guys at SOE pretty much INSTANTLY lost any credibility with me and all of my friends that were planning on joining the PS2 community. Its an absolute disgrace that they are dumping their fan base for a quick buck, but in the end they will lose so much fucking money that FANNIE MAY will be like " ah man you guys fucked up, lol"

To bad Higby, you had at least 15 more players until this fucking joke.
Unfortunatly I'm positive SOE could give 2 shits about 15 players.

[somers]

http://www.planetside-universe.com/forums/showthread.php?p=640834#post640834
I found an update on the PS2 twitter that linked to their facebook, showing that they ARE LISTENING! (maybe...)

[Traak]

As a side note, I thought this might be of interest to you all:

From Wikipedia:

As of 2006, overseas satellite links accounted for only 1 percent of international traffic, while the remainder was carried by undersea cable. The reliability of submarine cables is high, especially when (as noted above), multiple paths are available in the event of a cable break. Also, the total carrying capacity of submarine cables is in the terabits per second while satellites typically offer only megabits per second and display higher latency.

[Sta]

Ah ok, so basically most "F2P" games. Except Higby already stated all buy-able stuff will only be for aesthetics.

Im not an expert on this so pls forgive my incompetence but a game like ps2 with decent graphics coded to support hundreds of player in one area and as an fpsmmo which you rarely find somewhere else I wonder how it works to go f2p from the beginning? How to produce/ finance an online game strictly by an income of the player's needs for aesthetics??

[Figment]

Im not an expert on this so pls forgive my incompetence but a game like ps2 with decent graphics coded to support hundreds of player in one area and as an fpsmmo which you rarely find somewhere else I wonder how it works to go f2p from the beginning? How to produce/ finance an online game strictly by an income of the player's needs for aesthetics??

By monetizing players need for faster gain of experience points, need for outfit creation, need for multiple characters, need for better chat options, etc.

Basically, by selling convenience, rather than power.

[Coreldan]

It's no secret that in F2P type games your usual paying customer easily spends 2-3 times more money on the game than with the more "traditional" payment models like retail cost and/or subscription model.

That said, there will be a lot of free players too, but obviously the payment model is succesful, seeing that just about anything but the outright biggest names have moved to it.

[stordito]

As European my soe account is now clean of personal info, credit card.,subscriptions.it just have email and its' ready to be dumped if EU Vets are not in beta AND no regional lock is implemented,plus there is no way my data goes in any other hand other than SOE.

Maybe in the US Sony can do that, but here this unclear movement of personal data just screams "EU costumer's rights commission here,please!".
If this pass we can just file a complaint to Strasburg and they'll handle it...

[Figment]

Technically SOE is not moving the accounts for us. From what I understand, we have to make new accounts, after which a transfer of goods and characters can be initiated, probably through an appeal.

At least, that's what I understood from the FAQ: it'll be our choice to make a new account with ProSieben. Of course there seems no alternative other than quitting, so it's not much of a choice.


Let's see what Smedley's discussions bring as he tweeted they are trying to find a way to let us all play together afterall.

[stordito]

yes it's a clever way to say you actually made actively the transfer..i bet the whole procedure will be entitlet "register here to play online" and not "press here to let us copy your data to a third party server". consensus must be explicit, if not it's just a scam...

[Figment]

They can't simply hand over the data, that'd be illegal.

[Vash02]

They can't simply hand over the data, that'd be illegal.

There's probably a clause buried deep in the TOS allowing them to do that.

[Talek Krell]

There's probably a clause buried deep in the TOS allowing them to do that.Well, that doesn't necessarily make it legal. Hopefully there's a way to get this impending problem fixed. My gunner is on military deployment in Germany for the foreseeable future, so the detrimental effects of this aren't even just isolated to Europe. >_>

[Tehroth]

I wish this game wasn't F2p. I would rather everyone have to work for their things instead of paying for it. I am sure SoE being the cash grabbers they are will eventually make weapons and gear that you'll have to buy or will lose without it.

In fact I am positive why else would you spend so much money developing a f2p game?

Also splitting up your community...really? You would think developers,producers and stockholders would realize what the gaming community wants for the most part. Instead we always get someone doing idiotic things that should have stopped happening 8 years ago.

[Gandhi]

I wish this game wasn't F2p. I would rather everyone have to work for their things instead of paying for it. I am sure SoE being the cash grabbers they are will eventually make weapons and gear that you'll have to buy or will lose without it.

In fact I am positive why else would you spend so much money developing a f2p game?

Cosmetic and convenience items actually make a ton of money by themselves, and most serious developers know selling power is the quickest way to kill a game. Unless it's a Korean MMO, they're "special". I really doubt SOE plans to go that route, and if they do I'll stop playing along with I would guess thousands of other people.

[Sabrak]

In fact I am positive why else would you spend so much money developing a f2p game?

Because F2P games makes lots of money.

You just have no idea how much players are likely to spend on cosmetic stuff in a cash shop.
Look at Team Fortress 2 or League of Legends.

[Sta]

Because F2P games makes lots of money.

You just have no idea how much players are likely to spend on cosmetic stuff in a cash shop.
Look at Team Fortress 2 or League of Legends.

yea, im crazy bout assault rifles :D
I certainly buy one when it looks better than the standard one....

[Ragefighter]

soe run cash shop doesn't worry me at all. They have it in eq2 for years and have no pay to win items.

not sure how ps2 vet status is going to be handled but it would be nice if for X amount of days active in PS2 you get non game breaking rewards. like consumable xp items and stuff. This would give a true f2p way to get them.

But yea, i really doubt there will be anything to do with more powerful weapons and stuff on the store.
probably like name change items and server transfer items or something along that also, unless you can log into any server, but they haven't mentioned that, iirc, yet.

[Trolltaxi]

All I want after Smed's tweet:

- still no pay to win
- no 90 days inactivity delete
- beta access
- way to play on EU/USA common server

In that order.

[Boomzor]

The thing is, I've been used to spend ~12€ / ~15$ a month on subscription based games for a pretty darn long time and I'm in the mindset of being willing to put that in the cash shop each month as well. That is, if the good will towards the games stays on a positive note. That good will has been seriously rattled now.

[ringring]

They can't simply hand over the data, that'd be illegal.

All they need to do is to properly inform you.

In a different sphere, you rent a property and the property rental company is taken over by another one. Your details will be transferred, but you will (should) be kept fully informed.

[ringring]

Regarding Smed's response I'm afraid I think Sabrak has the truth of it. None of us know the details of the agreement which is in place but I highly doubt anyone is going to revise anything until they've at least given it a try. Let me put it this way (and posse don't think I'm being pessimistic, you genuinely will not find a more ardent fan of ps than me) but do you really think either pro7 or soe didn't expect this reaction? They knew they were going to get out and they're just hoping it'll die down soon enough that it doesn't disrupt anthony they have planned. Anthony they tell us right now must be taken with a table spoonful of salt!
The 'deal' itself is done but the part we are talking about, is region locking, is a small part of that.

It might not even be a detail within the main contract but be specified within protocols and SOP's.

As long as SoE recieves revenue from European players for their input and Pro7 also receives revenue and both are able to cover their costs and make the expected profit then - ie there is 'wiggle room'.

I would expect there will be Euro players playing on US Servers and US players playing on EURO servers and it will all balance out (pretty much).

I think there is at least a good possibility of a compromise.

[Hamma]

Folks I am going to lock this to combine all feedback for ProSieben and Smed's responses to this issue yesterday.