AOE heal, revive

[ThGlump]

Did they turn medic class into mage class? Using SKILL to aoe heal and reviving? If its there i really hope its some sort of deployable, or consumable and not some lousy skill. And of course reviving should take some time. This aoe revive sounds like instant.


Also did i hear correctly about healing and reviving GRENADES? (healing/reviving at distance). That also looks like that reviving dont take any time.

[NewSith]

I say beta on this one. If it's cooldown-based (as stated), than spamming shit wwith them won't work.

[NEWSKIS]

Like everything else for PS2, there are no specifics on how it will work, for all you know there could be some major drawbacks to it.

[Knightwyvern]

I believe they are one and the same. I.E., the AoE heal/revive IS the grenade choices for medics.
I do hope they are quite limited in number of use.

[Wakken]

Im a pries... I mean medic!

[DayOne]

I'll be waiting for the youtube videos where 20 guys get mowed down in a corridor by an AI MAX and someone throws a revive grenade!

I agree though, it's very mage like.

[Myomoto]

Healing 'grenades' sounds pretty crazy. I'm guessing that the 'grenade' will just stick around and create a small AoE healing zone for a little bit of time, instead of actually 'exploding' with health.

[NewSith]

Being a medic as a second spec I support this tool. Brink had that lazarus grenade that didn't look mage at all. But I say again - this one is beta-decision only. You just won't have enough people in an internal test to see how it works.

[DaddyTickles]

I love the idea of healing grenades. I just hope they explode with little pink flowers or hearts, lol.

I think Higby is an old fashioned hippy at heart.:p

[MooK]

Cooldowns. AoE. Really sounds like some generic MMORPG. I'm not a fan of healing grenades either.

I want my medic to perform surgery during battle, damnit.

[EVILPIG]

I think the label of the power ruins it's purpose. A healing aura just sounds cheesy, but you call it a Dampening Field and make it reduce damage and you get almost the same thing but in a more tasteful way.

Dampening Field - The Medic generates a field in his radius that slows ballistics and absorbs concussion, thus reducing the damage to those within the field.

[Sighpolice]

Any form of reviving is counter productive to any defence/assault.. if it took you 15/20 seconds of using a reviving tool and pretty much all of your medic gel (planetside 1 style) then it wouldn't bother me, it was hardly any use in any real fighting situation, only when the fighting was over

the idea of "instant" reviving is just.. pathetic, everyone knows how it feels to play bf 2 (yes, 2) and bc2 will tell you that its so shit when you are fighting the same 3 guys over and over in the same building cause their 4th squadmate is bouncing around like a small dog on cocaine magically reviving them. Its not fun, its not strategic, its just flawed boring grinding gameplay

[MooK]

I think the label of the power ruins it's purpose. A healing aura just sounds cheesy, but you call it a Dampening Field and make it reduce damage and you get almost the same thing but in a more tasteful way.

Dampening Field - The Medic generates a field in his radius that slows ballistics and absorbs concussion, thus reducing the damage to those within the field.

Sounds more engineer-y to me.

[Sirisian]

Huge fan of these abilities. I wrote a thread about implants (http://www.planetside-universe.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37211) similar to these. It's nice to see developers thinking outside of the box for an FPS for once.

Sadly many people are going to misinterpret cool ideas for being too closely linked to their favorite MMORPG and freak out. That's kind of disappointing that people will throw away good ideas because of that. I've seen that a lot in this community where an idea has an implementation in a game they've played and they immediately assume and lock onto that implementation and assume it's identical in Planetside 2. :doh:

[ThGlump]

I think the label of the power ruins it's purpose. A healing aura just sounds cheesy, but you call it a Dampening Field and make it reduce damage and you get almost the same thing but in a more tasteful way.

Dampening Field - The Medic generates a field in his radius that slows ballistics and absorbs concussion, thus reducing the damage to those within the field.

It doesnt have to be some mage stuff to work in scifi enviroment. Nanites are part of the lore. Lets say that you have some in your armor, and medic can have wireless connection to nearby soldiers, with specialized programs commanding nanintes to heal you. Effect would be just the same as healing aura.

[MadKat]

No, no, no. Anything but this. It sounds horrible.
Make it into a quick action response system (as said above) into some surgical or revival thing.
Chance of killing the incapacitated based off accuracy of quick time response. Woo! Anything but trow nade insta rez. -. -

[Myomoto]

Cooldowns. AoE. Really sounds like some generic MMORPG. I'm not a fan of healing grenades either.

I want my medic to perform surgery during battle, damnit.

Surgery seems like such a crass and outdated thing when you have NANO MACHINES!

[MooK]

It doesnt have to be some mage stuff to work in scifi enviroment. Nanites are part of the lore. Lets say that you have some in your armor, and medic can have wireless connection to nearby soldiers, with specialized programs commanding nanintes to heal you. Effect would be just the same as healing aura.

Yeah, but if you're going to pull out that kind of endless conceptual speech, then we simply have to state: Why hasn't someone programmed the nanites to identify when the person is injured and automatically heal them?

Surgery seems like such a crass and outdated thing when you have NANO MACHINES!

Well, then they should at least be operating some sort of mechanism, instead of magically distributing on a cool-down basis. =p

[Boomzor]

Reserving the right to change my mind in beta, but this sounds a bit iffy.
Let's not forget that this is a MASSIVE player combat game. So what if my ranged AoE heal/rez device is on cool down? It's not gonna stop the 50 other medics behind me from using use theirs.

[DaddyTickles]

Yeah, but if you're going to pull out that kind of endless conceptual speech, then we simply have to state: Why hasn't someone programmed the nanites to identify when the person is injured and automatically heal them?



Well, then they should at least be operating some sort of mechanism, instead of magically distributing on a cool-down basis. =p

Because the ancient Vanu programmed them to infect the minds of humans to stop them thinking of the idea. :doh:

[ThGlump]

Huge fan of these abilities. I wrote a thread about implants (http://www.planetside-universe.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37211) similar to these. It's nice to see developers thinking outside of the box for an FPS for once.

Sadly many people are going to misinterpret cool ideas for being too closely linked to their favorite MMORPG and freak out. That's kind of disappointing that people will throw away good ideas because of that. I've seen that a lot in this community where an idea has an implementation in a game they've played and they immediately assume and lock onto that implementation and assume it's identical in Planetside 2. :doh:

Im fine with new ideas. I just want 2 things from it:

No instant res (BF3 shit style)
No super healing (stronger than incoming damage) (tf2 style)

[NewSith]

No instant res (BF3 shit style)


I'm afraid for the sake of pacing devs made the thing instarez, I guess. But don't you forget that medapp thingamajiig will have ammo unlike BF defibs.

[Knightwyvern]

Im fine with new ideas. I just want 2 things from it:

No instant res (BF3 shit style)
No super healing (stronger than incoming damage) (tf2 style)


Agreed, absolutely.

[ThGlump]

I'm afraid for the sake of pacing devs made the thing instarez. But don't you forget that medapp thingamajiig will have ammo unlike BF defibs.

Damn another thing to yell in beta about. This faster pacing could ruin feel of planetside. This is like 5th bad idea so far just for sake of faster gameplay.

[Myomoto]

Well, then they should at least be operating some sort of mechanism, instead of magically distributing on a cool-down basis. =p

The thing about nano machines is that they're teeny tiny, and they're often capable of self-replication.

Now imagine this: Every medic carries an advanced 'nanite pack' on his back. This device has the ability to send out a 'cloud' of nano machines (an aura surrounding the medic, sort of like a stink cloud), and when friendly troops inhale these nano machines will enter directly into their bloodstream, the ideal place to distribute them throughout the rest of their body so that the nanobots can repair any tissue damage, etc.

Now, the 'nanite pack' contains the materials necessary to make more nanobots after having released its current contents, but it takes time to construct a new set of nanobots to release as another cloud.

[Bags]

Depends on the AOE. I imagine it will be a small AOE, only get a few people with it.

[NewSith]

Damn another thing to yell in beta about. This faster pacing could ruin feel of planetside. This is like 5th bad idea so far just for sake of faster gameplay.

"made, I guess." . I edited my post, it's speculation nothing more.

[MooK]

Damn another thing to yell in beta about. This faster pacing could ruin feel of planetside. This is like 5th bad idea so far just for sake of faster gameplay.

I prefer slower gameplay. Hah! I actually liked that it took time to organize and do things in PlanetSide 1. Oh minority I be.

The thing about nano machines is that they're teeny tiny, and they're often capable of self-replication.

Now imagine this: Every medic carries an advanced 'nanite pack' on his back. This device has the ability to send out a 'cloud' of nano machines (an aura surrounding the medic, sort of like a stink cloud), and when friendly troops inhale these nano machines will enter directly into their bloodstream, the ideal place to distribute them throughout the rest of their body so that the nanobots can repair any tissue damage, etc.

Now, the 'nanite pack' contains the materials necessary to make more nanobots after having released its current contents, but it takes time to construct a new set of nanobots to release as another cloud.

I'm on board, and you want to know why? Because you explained it using the game mechanic presented, instead of this AoE nonsense terminology. Kudos! (We really just need to start making things seem "realistic" with the story of the game to make some of these ideas work, but they all have to make sense.)

[Myomoto]

I'm on board, and you want to know why? Because you explained it using the game mechanic presented, instead of this AoE nonsense terminology. Kudos!

I know, right! SOE should totally hire me! :lol:

[Sirisian]

Im fine with new ideas. I just want 2 things from it:

No instant res (BF3 shit style)
No super healing (stronger than incoming damage) (tf2 style)

Yeah you could have for instance a bar that revives a person over time as long as the medic is alive. Most people will immediately notice this as "cast time" if they've played an MMO. Newbs will immediately think "Only fantasy MMO games can revive people over time!" which obviously is 100% true. :lol:

[Sta]

Did they turn medic class into mage class? Using SKILL to aoe heal and reviving? If its there i really hope its some sort of deployable, or consumable and not some lousy skill. And of course reviving should take some time. This aoe revive sounds like instant.


Also did i hear correctly about healing and reviving GRENADES? (healing/reviving at distance). That also looks like that reviving dont take any time.

Yea, to deploy something like that:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d9/M2-Mortar.jpg/300px-M2-Mortar.jpg

sounds kool! Of course no mortar but like a device which generates some kind of futuristic health field in the surrounding area would be neat... In my opinion sounds better than throwing "grenades" to heal/ revive?? :huh:

edit:
The "grenade" idea to revive ppl was probably inspired by the defibrillator which we know from bf.. So they probably gonna look like emp granades...

[Sta]

The thing about nano machines is that they're teeny tiny, and they're often capable of self-replication.

Now imagine this: Every medic carries an advanced 'nanite pack' on his back. This device has the ability to send out a 'cloud' of nano machines (an aura surrounding the medic, sort of like a stink cloud), and when friendly troops inhale these nano machines will enter directly into their bloodstream, the ideal place to distribute them throughout the rest of their body so that the nanobots can repair any tissue damage, etc.

Now, the 'nanite pack' contains the materials necessary to make more nanobots after having released its current contents, but it takes time to construct a new set of nanobots to release as another cloud.

That sounds like an episode of star trek :)

[ThGlump]

Imagine medic on top of a tower. At the base of tower is huge battle. Other class put ammo box next to medic (mentioned to be in), and medic spamming healing and res grenades down from the tower = tower of immortal defenders :)

[Aurmanite]

Brink had a fantastic medic system. It involved medics throwing needles at downed soldiers who would have to apply it in order to be revived, and throwing dart like healing...sticks.

Something like this could work extremely well in Planetside.

[Sta]

Imagine medic on top of a tower. At the base of tower is huge battle. Other class put ammo box next to medic (mentioned to be in), and medic spamming healing and res grenades down from the tower = tower of immortal defenders :)

sniper gets his head :)

[Myomoto]

edit:
The "grenade" idea to revive ppl was probably inspired by the defibrillator which we know from bf.. So they probably gonna look like emp granades...

But the defibrillators in BF3 are stupid because of three simple reasons:

One, you don't use a defibrillator to 'restart' somebody's heart (i.e. returning it from a 'flat-line' to a regular sinus rhythm as you see in the movies/medical dramas). You would most likely use an adrenaline injection for this, which would still provide you with that dramatic 'sudden return from the dead'.

Two, the cure to having your brains blown out by a sniper rifle isn't to restart the patient's heart :p

Thirdly, the fact that you can defib somebody by touching their boots with your shock paddles, and magically bring them back from the dead is just straight up silly.

[Erendil]

Im fine with new ideas. I just want 2 things from it:

No instant res (BF3 shit style)
No super healing (stronger than incoming damage) (tf2 style)



Agreed.


The thing about nano machines is that they're teeny tiny, and they're often capable of self-replication.

Now imagine this: Every medic carries an advanced 'nanite pack' on his back. This device has the ability to send out a 'cloud' of nano machines (an aura surrounding the medic, sort of like a stink cloud), and when friendly troops inhale these nano machines will enter directly into their bloodstream, the ideal place to distribute them throughout the rest of their body so that the nanobots can repair any tissue damage, etc.

Now, the 'nanite pack' contains the materials necessary to make more nanobots after having released its current contents, but it takes time to construct a new set of nanobots to release as another cloud.


I'm okay with healing fields so long as I, as an enemy combatant, can throw a Jammer grenade into that nanite cloud to destroy it and stop its effects. :D


I'm fine with them implementing outside-the-box healing like rez grenades and healing fields, but they need to make sure they balance these aspects of each skill/item:


Power
Time to take effect
Risk to the user
frequency of use / number of uses
Avalilable counters for the enemy


For example:

Rez Grenade: You toss out a small headcrab-like robot device that attaches itself to the nearest friendly corpse and injects a nanite stream into the body, allowing it to revive your fallen comrade.


Power - High power, it can resurrect someone
Time to take effect - takes several seconds, much slower than using a "traditional" med app to Rez someone at point blank
Risk to the user - None, it's self-guiding and you can use it while you're hiding behind cover, attacking other enemies, etc
Frequency of use / number of uses - one use per nade, limited number of nades in inventory
Avalilable counters for the enemy - enemy forces can shoot the headcrab-bot or use a jammer on it to prevent the rez

[CutterJohn]

But the defibrillators in BF3 are stupid because of three simple reasons:

One, you don't use a defibrillator to 'restart' somebody's heart (i.e. returning it from a 'flat-line' to a regular sinus rhythm as you see in the movies/medical dramas). You would most likely use an adrenaline injection for this, which would still provide you with that dramatic 'sudden return from the dead'.

Two, the cure to having your brains blown out by a sniper rifle isn't to restart the patient's heart :p

Thirdly, the fact that you can defib somebody by touching their boots with your shock paddles, and magically bring them back from the dead is just straight up silly.

WHOA! Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. Whoa..

Whoa..

Are you saying that.. video games are unrealistic?


My whole life is a lie... :eek:





I like the heal grenade idea. More tools for healing sounds great.

AOE heals are bad and for MMORPGs only? Good god, someone should go tell the lodestar that.

[ThGlump]

Since there is FF on. Should aoe heal, res and their grenade variants effect enemies? If you gun can kill friendlies, could you heal enemies, or even res them with your area effect "spells" if you arent careful enough?
If yes you should get griefs for it.

[CutterJohn]

Since there is FF on. Should aoe heal, res and their grenade variants effect enemies? If you gun can kill friendlies, could you heal enemies, or even res them with your area effect "spells" if you arent careful enough?
If yes you should get griefs for it.

I'd be down with that. Nanite non discrimination pact!

[Myomoto]

Since there is FF on. Should aoe heal, res and their grenade variants effect enemies? If you gun can kill friendlies, could you heal enemies, or even res them with your area effect "spells" if you arent careful enough?
If yes you should get griefs for it.

I vote in favour of turning the nanites into flesh eating miniature monstrosities when they come into contact with enemy soldiers! :rock:

In the webcast, they mentioned how one of your grenades would be a quick throw, and the other would be an equip grenade. Based on that, I wonder if they'd include more classically 'deployable' items in the class grenade slots, i.e. the healing grenade wouldn't actually be thrown, it would just be a small beacon that you place on the ground.

[ShadoViper]

Sounds like a good idea. Interested to see how it works in beta.

[Alduron]

Did they turn medic class into mage class? Using SKILL to aoe heal and reviving? If its there i really hope its some sort of deployable, or consumable and not some lousy skill. And of course reviving should take some time. This aoe revive sounds like instant.


Also did i hear correctly about healing and reviving GRENADES? (healing/reviving at distance). That also looks like that reviving dont take any time.

I'm not sure what you're getting at with the "mage" comment. In PS1 you could deconstruct, fly across bases and reconstruct at a different base. Seems a bit more "mage-y" to me than tossing a grenade loaded with healing nanites.

I think it adds a whole other level of depth to the game. The heal tool left a lot to be desired when attempting to heal 9 squad mates under fire. I welcome the idea of more versatile healing tools, personally.

[ratfusion]

I think aoe healing and some form of fast reviving are great gameplay elements. It certainly beats following the minimap to find your victim just in time for him to respawn anyhow. Or making the medic the least desirable class by spending the whole game with a short ranged heal stick out.

With respawn tubes that can rebuild you in seconds, it shouldn't be too much of a stretch to explain these in the fluff.

[WaryWizard]

the aoe heal grenade i can deal with. It would just be the stuff in a healing gun in explosive form. I think it should also maybe heal enemies(they have friendly fire so positives should effect enemies as well)

The aoe revive grenade seems odd to me(never played the first so idk how revive worked). I think some other type of grenade should be used. Maybe one that can be used in an offensive manner(like a leech grenade).

[mrkdilkington]

Hate the idea of Prayer of healing AoE heal as it makes me think of a priest in an MMORPG or the goblin alchemist in Warcraft 3. If it ain't broke don't fix it.

[Sifer2]

I hope you can disable a medics ability to revive you with grenades. That could get pretty annoying you and a few buddies out in the open getting blown up over an over. With a Medic either purposely or just cluelessly reviving you so you can die again and again.

Honestly I was worried about Battlefield style medikit drops but these are way beyond that. On the one hand it does make the Medic useful. Guess i'll see in Beta how it plays.

[CutterJohn]

Hate the idea of Prayer of healing AoE heal as it makes me think of a priest in an MMORPG or the goblin alchemist in Warcraft 3. If it ain't broke don't fix it.

Plasma = Fire Wall
Cloaking = Stealth
Darklight = See invisible
Surge = Spirit of Wolf
Pshield = Oakskin
Range magnifier = Far Sight
Sensor shield = Light Foot
Regeneration = Regeneration
Pain fields = Cloudkill
Starfire = Magic Missile
Hacking = Lockpicking
Respawn = Reviving at the graveyard
OS = Power word: Kill(cept without the saving throw)
Detect friendlies = Detect good
Detect enemies = Detect evil
Dragon = Flaming Hands


Etc, etc, etc. I could keep going, but hopefully thats enough to help you figure out that PS1 is in no way some special snowflake that shares nothing with RPGs.



I hope you can disable a medics ability to revive you with grenades. That could get pretty annoying you and a few buddies out in the open getting blown up over an over. With a Medic either purposely or just cluelessly reviving you so you can die again and again.

Honestly I was worried about Battlefield style medikit drops but these are way beyond that. On the one hand it does make the Medic useful. Guess i'll see in Beta how it plays.

Yeah, being able to opt out of the rez will be the very first thing I suggest in beta if its not already present. That shit could get seriously annoying in the BF games.

[Hermes]

Didn't even think about how an aoe grenade revive might change the way a medic feels, it's a fair point.

Sort of ruins that doctor/patient relationship. I played adv med almost exclusively in PS1 and I was prized for my bedside manner :)

[Chinchy]

As long as you can finish off enemy soldiers after they have been incapacitated with a few extra bullets I have no problems with them having insta heals.

[Figment]

Throw a med-grenade, local M.A.S.H. base pops up, including nurses, showers and comedy-drama. :o

[Scrima]

Once I heard it I was like "ehhhh" but now that I think about it more it sounds like an excellent idea. Healing in PS1 was time consuming and required medic and the one being healed to stop dead in their tracks, same with reviving. Slowed down the game considerably, and given what SOE wants to do with PS2 it sounds like a AoE/grenade heal fits the bill perfectly.

[Kran De Loy]

It doesnt have to be some mage stuff to work in scifi enviroment. Nanites are part of the lore. Lets say that you have some in your armor, and medic can have wireless connection to nearby soldiers, with specialized programs commanding nanintes to heal you. Effect would be just the same as healing aura.
Edit4: Yeah, I should probably mention I hate the idea of a Healing Grenade, but I absolutely love science fiction and how people can think up ways for it to work.

Nanites aren't really magic, tho. They'd still need substances to replace the damaged or blown away areas or to close wounds without it they'd just end up cannibalizing their carrier.

Edit: And if the nanites ARE the substance, like what I believe the vehicles and weapons and armor and what not ended up being in PS1, then where are the extra's kept? In the person? Their armor? Why not use that to explain why people need to take X amount of damage before they go down. It would pretty cool and make more sense imo.

Edit2:Where as the medic just comes around with more nanite gel loaded down with tons of nutrients and synthetic skin in a spray can that both disinfects the surface wound and seals it.

Edit3:AOE grenade? Full of adrenaline that the nanites already in the subject's body uses to wake the mother ******s up mixed together with a low powered scrambler that causes any adrenaline laced nanites in the air to destroy themselves when they come into contact with something that they don't recognize as a way to explain why the AOE only works for that specific medic's faction. Also as a way to explain the cooldown on the subject as it ISN'T a heal, just a way of getting the last few dregs of consciousness out of the troops.

[Squeegeez]

I'm in favor of the AoE heal / revive. Instantly reminded me of Brink, like a few others here as well.

[Aurmanite]

I'm in favor of the AoE heal / revive. Instantly reminded me of Brink, like a few others here as well.

Brink had a lot of really good ideas. The game just kinda missed the mark they were trying to hit.

[SUBARU]

I dont understand the devs sometimes.First they say they want faster combat,then they give you AOE heals to slow combat down

[Sirisian]

I dont understand the devs sometimes.First they say they want faster combat,then they give you AOE heals to slow combat down
Speed up the time to get to battles and increase the time spent fighting is what they meant probably. Not necessarily wanting players to die fast. Basically lowering the down-time experienced by players. Remember logging into PS1 in the sanc then it took 5 minutes or more to get into the fight?

[ThGlump]

Faster combat doesnt only mean faster killing. It also mean less downtime. If you have 2 medics and 8 other classes (i expect that will be usual squad), it mean you can heal all a lot faster after combat than they staying in line waiting till you get to them with single heal.

Healing in battle is other issue. I liked that when you heal you are unable to fight, that you need to be guarded by person you healing or someone else. If you can distance heal someone fighting with aoe heal (i hope you need to have visibility), or grenade while you are safely away from battle, i dont like it that much.

[Conq]

Brink had that lazarus grenade that didn't look mage at all.

+1

It worked well, wasn't overpowered and looked good.

[ThirdCross]

Rez Grenade: You toss out a small headcrab-like robot device that attaches itself to the nearest friendly corpse and injects a nanite stream into the body, allowing it to revive your fallen comrade.

Love that idea. It allows the medic to defend himself while reviving someone and avoids the stupid feeling of throwing a grenade at someone to revive them.

To add on to this idea, the robot should be able to 'walk' a certain distance (1/6 of a base length maybe?) to the nearest fallen teammate or who the medic chooses from the mini-map or from his squad/platoon list.

I'm thinking it'll look something like this.

http://i.imgur.com/FPCJa.jpg

[Chinchy]

I loved the medic in Brink it was done really well throwing adrenalin needles to your incapacitated teammates. Leaving it to the incapacitated player to revive themselves not slowing down the medic game play also allow for finishing kills please, Mele would be a 1 hit and a couple of shots from an assault rifle.

Running something like that in planetside would be awesome.

[NewSith]

Rez Grenade: You toss out a small headcrab-like robot device that attaches itself to the nearest friendly corpse and injects a nanite stream into the body, allowing it to revive your fallen comrade.
Love that idea. It allows the medic to defend himself while reviving someone and avoids the stupid feeling of throwing a grenade at someone to revive them.

To add on to this idea, the robot should be able to 'walk' a certain distance (1/6 of a base length maybe?) to the nearest fallen teammate or who the medic chooses from the mini-map or from his squad/platoon list.

I'm thinking it'll look something like this.

http://i.imgur.com/FPCJa.jpg

^This altogether... RC/autopilot small helaing bot is Superb!

But as long as you need to mark a target for it, otherwise some abuse in the system may be expected.


EDIT: Oh and it must have 2 modes: RC and automated:

RC - you control the bot while staying vulnerable (EOD bot for rez) it allows you to save people from afar and in multiple numbers. Owner is sitting looking at his monitor, driving MedBot, not able to do anything himself.
Automated - you designate a single target and launch the bot to rez. After bot ressurects or fails to ressurect it goes back to his owner. Owner is free to do anything.


Above all, - bot MUST use the medjuice for his rezs, otherwise it's op.

[Tikuto]

Cooldowns. AoE. Really sounds like some generic MMORPG. I'm not a fan of healing grenades either.

I want my medic to perform surgery during battle, damnit.This.

Healing grenades is just too cartoon-like and just generally distasteful except for, maybe the gameplay side of 'healing grenades'.

Our way of healing in most games is to cast something. Understandable. Instead, I'd rather it be an option.


Option 1: Hands-on surgery making a clean result. (fast but single-target)
Option 2: 'Mage-casting' healing making physiological side-effects. (slow and multiple-target)

[Bags]

This.

Healing grenades is just too cartoon-like and just generally distasteful except for, maybe the gameplay side of 'healing grenades'.

Our way of healing in most games is to cast something. Understandable. Instead, I'd rather it be an option.


Option 1: Hands-on surgery making a clean result. (fast but single-target)
Option 2: 'Mage-casting' healing making physiological side-effects. (slow and multiple-target)


I don't understand this at all.

[Traak]

I believe they are one and the same. I.E., the AoE heal/revive IS the grenade choices for medics.
I do hope they are quite limited in number of use.

Yeah, a clip size that is just one round higher than what a Jackhammer carries would be satisfactory.

[Hmr85]

I'm not a fan of any of this. I firmly believe they should stick with the tried and true Planetside 1 heal and resurrect mechanics. It worked very well.

1. It forced the player to run out and heal/resurrect the fallen comrade thus exposing them to enemy fire.
2. It wasn't instant you had to wait a set amount of time to revive somebody.

[Rbstr]

I think the ideas of res-nade and AOE healing are pretty cool. Revival has to be carefully balanced on cool down or ammo limitation...and it probably shouldn't res groups of people at a time.
Healing, on the other hand, by aoe, sort of lets the medic actually heal while people are in the midst of combat, instead of them having to retreat, get glued, go back and on and on.

[Gortha]

OMG pls not, please no Planetcraft2...

[Shogun]

another question about reviving grenades...

will we have to switch to grenadeweapon and holster the gun to use the nade, or will it be a quicknade that can be thrown with weapon in hand by the push of a key?

id it´s quicknade medics will learn to selfrezz very fast by dropping a healnade in the last second before being killed. the medic will die, the nade will fall and revive him immediately.
hope a mechanic like that is impossible. don´t like too many hilarious things in a game like the jet-bazooka-jump in bf3

[ThGlump]

1 is quick, 1 is equip. As res is stronger i expect it to be equip grenade.

But even with heal one you could do crazy stuff. Throw it around corner, then run there start shooting and in the middle of fight you get healer from your grenade. I hope this wouldnt be possible.

[Shade Millith]

No no no no no no I cannot say this enough please for the love of everything holy no.

No instant rezing! At all, nada, zip line. No instant rezing of any kind, no matter if it's on a 10-20-30 minute cool down. If it's AOE instant rez I'm going to scream. And then cry.

Rezing is something that HAS TO TAKE PLACE IN A SAFE PLACE. It HAS to be something that takes at least 3-5 seconds of standing still and exposed, or it's going to be Battlefield's magic paddles all over again. And that's not a good thing.

Getting shot loses all meaning when you can be instantly healed and brought back to life by any one of 10 guys behind you.

It worked perfectly in PS1, why would people change that?! Stop turning this game into a run and gun arcade fest!



AOE heal, ONLY if it's a very weak one. 2 HP a second weak, like a reverse Maelstrom.

[Warborn]

AOE heals/revives could work well. The rationale behind medic invulnerability in TF2, for example, was to be able to break stalemates. You had an ability that you could use every so often, as a medic, which let you potentially plow through the enemy and keep the game moving. How many times in PS1 would we defend or attack a base and be totally stuck for hours? Where you'd just have dozens of people defending every chokepoint and it would be an exhausting meatgrinder? Too often.

Medic special abilities potentially allow those situations to be overcome. If medics can now-and-then pop some powerful abilities, they can allow for situations like that to be overcome and the game moving forward rather than stagnating.

Or, they could be too powerful and make fighting annoying as hell. Or they could be too weak to be useful. Either way, it could be a decent addition to the game, gotta wait and see. But rejecting it because it's not like Planetside 1 is foolish. It being different from PS1 is good, because PS1 was rather shit.

[MooK]

It worked perfectly in PS1, why would people change that?! Stop turning this game into a run and gun arcade fest!



^

[Aurmanite]

They never once said anything about resing being instant. Breathe...

What worked in Planetside won't necessarily work in Planetside 2...cause its a new game being made 9 years later.

[Naeadil]

This is seriously one of the dumbest features I've heard going into Planetside 2. Please make it like Battlefield 3 or Return to Castle Wolfenstein revive system (both very similar). Stick one guy with paddle/needle, he's revived instantly. No clunky revive timer like in PS1. Shit was gay. And CERTAINLY no area of effect revive, WTF?

As far as healing grenades go, like wtf? This isn't Global Agenda or whatever the fuck. Medkits please.

[Sirisian]

Please make it like Battlefield 3 or Return to Castle Wolfenstein revive system (both very similar). Stick one guy with paddle/needle, he's revived instantly.
So your complaint is that you should physically be next to the player to revive them? I could understand that. The ability to say stand behind a wall and cook a revive grenade and throw it at a friendly does seem a bit odd.

My change would be that the grenade takes 3 seconds to cook so you can throw it and let it roll. It would then activate a spherical healing area that would then fire a "laser" from the grenade to the medic so you can revive at range, but you must be within LOS when it happens. That would balance it to my liking.

As far as healing grenades go, like wtf? This isn't Global Agenda [...]. Medkits please.
So you want medics to use medkits on players? Or do you want them to set them on the ground and it heals people in an area?

Also did Global Agenda have healing grenades? If so, what was wrong in their implementation that hurt gameplay?

[ShadoViper]

This is seriously one of the dumbest features I've heard going into Planetside 2. Please make it like Battlefield 3 or Return to Castle Wolfenstein revive system (both very similar). Stick one guy with paddle/needle, he's revived instantly. No clunky revive timer like in PS1. Shit was gay. And CERTAINLY no area of effect revive, WTF?

As far as healing grenades go, like wtf? This isn't Global Agenda or whatever the fuck. Medkits please.

Calm down there princess. You still have the Medical tool for revives. You just also get the option of using a revive grenade that would have a cool Down period.

[Shade Millith]

This is seriously one of the dumbest features I've heard going into Planetside 2. Please make it like Battlefield 3 or Return to Castle Wolfenstein revive system (both very similar). Stick one guy with paddle/needle, he's revived instantly. No clunky revive timer like in PS1. Shit was gay. And CERTAINLY no area of effect revive, WTF?

I'm sorry, but BF3's system was 'gay'.

Instantly, with unlimited ammo, rezing was a horrible mechanic. It turned the game into a run and gun arcade shooter,, were getting 'killed' was barely worth a mention or even a pause.

It took almost ALL the worry about dying out of the game (The stupid squad spawn system took the remaining tatters). If you don't even have to worry about DYING, then the game is broken.

PS1's mechanic worked, because it was suicide to rez people during a firefight. It meant that, 'shock horror!!', that DYING MEANT SOMETHING.

God forbid that a medic might need to put EFFORT towards something as powerful as RAISING SOMEONE WHO'S DIED.

'Shock horror!!' that people might need to THINK about survival before running into a wall of gunfire!

[atone]

Interesting idea. could be great. need to beta test it to be sure.

Im definitely in the camp of "give the medic a stronger presence in the field." So why not give em more tools for their trade, because so far there isn't much. So what if there is a Aoe rez? the trade off would be that it makes a high value target for the enemy, especially snipers. From the screenshots, the medic seems to be a very visible target.

Also there is the system of resource costs:
If the "reznade" was costly enough, only the most dedicated medics would carry one or two. and once used gone for good and have to be repurchased. Which would make them save it for just the right occasion.

Balance would be key with this, as are most things i guess. There should be a criteria that has to be met in order to be rezzed or healed with aoe nade. i think it should take time to work and an opt out feature. A head shot=dead or damn near, so no rezzing you cause someone made sure that you don"t get up again (skill reward). blast damage with exception of direct hit should be ok and being winged or even shot center mass, burned also ok.

[Whalenator]

Dev team is expecting a clusterfuck once men get into bases. Remember that there will be tight poplocks and few continents. It's going to be hard to heal individual players so AoE is essential in these clusterfuck situations. One medic needs to be able to attend to multiple players.

tl;dr AoE roolz direct heal droolz

[Whalenator]

What the dev team designs for and what actually happens is proven through planetside 1 to be false. Balancing of this game depends on the population of this game when it comes, to any support role. There is no possible way to anticipate the game's population and even if you could, the less populated servers would have to be taken into consideration for balancing.

The system I believe they have would work for both, 6 vs 6 or 600 vs 600.. The medic will have a high powered partially instanious healing tool that needs recharge after use. I may be wrong and I am wrong a lot, but this is how I think it could be done without aoe.

I'm assuming for the love of jesus christ friendly players will not collide with each other. And just based on inside-base CQC fights NOW IN PS1, they're ALREADY clusterfucky. Imagine full-pop'd PS2.

[cellinaire]

...I sometimes have to wonder how many people in this forum have already said something like :

"Goodbye PS1, Welcome PS2"

[Graywolves]

I want a healing sniper rifle

[Shade Millith]

...I sometimes have to wonder how many people in this forum have already said something like :

"Goodbye PS1, Welcome PS2"

Just because it's a different game, doesn't mean we have to put bad mechanics in.

Getting shot and killed needs to have a penalty. You've died, you've lost. Respawn somewhere and get back to the fight.

Instantaneous resurrecting REMOVES this penalty. There's no point in being careful about it if one medic out of 50-100 (probably more) can instantly bring you back without any effort or thought.

And having a AOE resurrection grenade just makes it even worse. Makes dying a complete non-issue. A joke.

[Sirisian]

I want a healing sniper rifle
I believe during one of the webcasts they mentioned a healing rifle was a possibility for the medic. A healing sniper rifle would be interesting. Being able to see friendlies from afar and push their health up with a well aimed hit is a skillful action that an FPS should encourage. It would be an interesting mechanic. (Can't tell if you were serious, but hopefully their designers are as creative as you).
And having a AOE resurrection grenade just makes dying a complete non-issue. A joke.
They didn't explain how it works or if there's resource costs to it. It might be something a medic can unlock then buy at spawn with earned resources to help their squad out. Meaning it's not something you have necessarily every time you spawn.

[Naeadil]

I'm sorry, but BF3's system was 'gay'.

Instantly, with unlimited ammo, rezing was a horrible mechanic. It turned the game into a run and gun arcade shooter, were getting 'killed' was barely worth a mention or even a pause.

It took almost ALL the worry about dying out of the game (The stupid squad spawn system took the remaining tatters). If you don't even have to worry about DYING, then the game is broken.

PS1's mechanic worked, because it was suicide to rez people during a firefight. It meant that, 'shock horror!!', that DYING MEANT SOMETHING.

God forbid that a medic might need to put EFFORT towards something as powerful as RAISING SOMEONE WHO'S DIED.

'Shock horror!!' that people might need to THINK about survival before running into a wall of gunfire!

LMAO. You have no idea what you're talking about. I come from a competitive RTCW background, and reviving is nearly identicial to BF3s. Having paddles/needles out instead of a gun is a deathwish. Also I'm sorry to say, but no one wants Planetside 1's clunky revive system any more. The game is stated to be faster paced and have more modern FPS mechanics than the original. Also, if you ran with Advanced Medics in Planetside 1, dying was hardly a problem, unless everyone died. If you're worried about "too many revives," Planetside 2 will have less Medics because you can't be a swiss army knife like the original game.

The difference between RTCW and Planetside reviving system is you can gib a corpse in RTCW to prevent it from being revived. This could be done with one shot (from the correct angle) with a knife, a couple bullets, or one explosion from a grenade/rocket launcher. This can stop the medic-revive chains that can happen. I don't know how old you are, but RTCW was one of the biggest FPS games from the early 2000's, and the Medic system was very fluid and added a lot of fun to gameplay.


So you want medics to use medkits on players? Or do you want them to set them on the ground and it heals people in an area?

Also did Global Agenda have healing grenades? If so, what was wrong in their implementation that hurt gameplay?


I also think the Med Kits should be droppable on the ground. This can be accomplished one of two ways. BF3 has it where you drop it on the ground and if you're nearby it, you just regen health rapidly. RTCW medkits are where you "walk" over one (kinda like Doom/Quake items) and you pick it up and it instantly restores a certain amount of hitpoints. Kind of like a Medkit from PS1 that can be dropped on the ground (except you didnt have to trigger it, just walk on top of it and be damaged to pick it up).

Basically, healing grenades and revive grenades just allow for way too much flexibility in healing. Global Agenda was basically WoW Arena with guns. The gameplay was pretty awful. I don't have some kind of vendetta against medic classes in games. I prefer it in almost every game I play. I just want the medic gameplay to be upfront, engaging, and fun. Not like WoW or GA where I'm hugging some pillar and throwing grenades out. That's just dumb. I don't want Planetside 2 to be like that, I want it to be like FPS games we already know and love. Not Hirez Studios garbage.

Calm down there princess. You still have the Medical tool for revives. You just also get the option of using a revive grenade that would have a cool Down period.

Who cares if it has a cooldown period? The mechanic is retarded.

[CutterJohn]

Who cares if it has a cooldown period? The mechanic is retarded.

It also has an ammo limit. And its not retarded. Oh no! People have different opinions!

[Naeadil]

It also has an ammo limit. And its not retarded. Oh no! People have different opinions!

Confirmed retarded. This isn't Global Agenda, it's Planetside 2. Sorry I don't want WoW with guns.

[FastAndFree]

craaaap wrong thread >_>

[FriendlyFire]

If the game is anything like PS1 (or even BF3 for that matter,) instantaneously rezz'ing someone in the middle of a fire fight, is going to be pointless. This is because the person that was just rezz'ed is going to die instantly. The main reason for this is most of the deaths occurred in the open, in LOS of the person that killed them seconds ago.

I see these grenades as a good thing, because they speed up the game for the Medic role and gives the role some substance.

[ShadoViper]

Confirmed retarded. This isn't Global Agenda, it's Planetside 2. Sorry I don't want WoW with guns.

http://img.tapatalk.com/4ac696c1-a0b2-d94c.jpg

[Alduron]

Sorry I don't want WoW with guns.
We're so far away from WoW that it shocks me that anyone would draw a comparison like that.

IMO Battlefield 3 has the worst revival mechanic. A man gets a tank shell to the face in a game that is 98% grounded in reality and magical paddles make him pop right back up.

PS has long had the Nanite system, which makes much more sense to put into an AOE grenade. It probably shouldn't be instant, but I don't see any reason for the grenade to not exist.

I see these grenades as a good thing, because they speed up the game for the Medic role and gives the role some substance.

This is perhaps the strongest argument for it. Medics are often neglected simply because very little people want to run around the battlefield bopping people with paddles. It would be nice to have some interesting tools available to the medic.

Borderlands let you heal teammates by shooting them with your normal weapons. PS2 is no place for this, but the fact that I could rocket my teammate in the face and he was healed was pretty sweet, and kept me playing the healer role.

[Geist]

First off, let me say that no one should come to any conclusions before actually playing the fucking game.

Secondly, I can see plenty of ways for revival grenade to work while being balanced. One is probably the most obvious, make it so you can only carry 1 grenade at a time. But that really isn't enough to make it balanced. But, let's say it takes time once thrown. Let's play it safe and say it takes 10 seconds to revive everyone in a 5 meter radius, except enemies can destroy it while it's spewing nanites, so throwing into a hallway filled with enemies is inadvisable, and thus not that helpful in a firefight unless they died behind a wall due to explosives.

[ShadoViper]

I like the sniper rifle idea brought up as a joke then sincerely by sirisian.

The thought of a medic that has an acog or 6x scope could be a FUN mechanic! I would even be a medic then, and if you hit an enemy! you heal them too!

This could really be a completely and utterly KICK, ASS way to heal. You have to aim in and actually shoot the friendly.

This could also solve the AOE debate. Have a secondary option for a small projective be shot from the sniper rifle that has a five foot radius and you can heal several targets while in the open field. Also, it couldn't be exploited in buildings such as bouncing a grenade around the corner.


I'm not suggesting this should be the primary way of healing, but definitely a way.

But this has to be added!

This feature is actually in the game killing floor. It works pretty well, however, the big downside for this is cluttered hallways. When people run infront of your shot it's frustrating as all hell and can usually result in the death of te person you wanted to heal in kf.

But this is a cool idea that could end up being a very interesting alternative.

[Geist]

I like the sniper rifle idea brought up as a joke then sincerely by sirisian.

The thought of a medic that has an acog or 6x scope could be a FUN mechanic! I would even be a medic then, and if you hit an enemy! you heal them too!

This could really be a completely and utterly KICK, ASS way to heal. You have to aim in and actually shoot the friendly.

This could also solve the AOE debate. Have a secondary option for a small projectile be shot from the sniper rifle that has a five foot radius and you can heal several targets while in the open field. Also, it couldn't be exploited in buildings such as bouncing a grenade around the corner.


I'm not suggesting this should be the primary way of healing, but definitely a way.

But this has to be added!

The ultimate solution to serial TKers. :p

But seriously, I love the mechanic in Killing Floor, and would actually make an excellent addition to Planetside. After all, it's a FPS first and foremost, and that means even medics need to aim before they heal. ;)

[Aurmanite]

We should make SOE add it ! I would really really LOVE the idea of a scoped healing rifle! I've never played Killing Floor, I'm going to go buy it today just to see how it works ! :D

While you're at it you should check out Brink. It has a really great healing/support/ressing system. Something like the system in Brink would work very well in Planetside

[Alduron]

We should make SOE add it ! I would really really LOVE the idea of a scoped healing rifle! I've never played Killing Floor, I'm going to go buy it today just to see how it works ! :D

I can't say I wouldn't want to at least test it out.

[Alduron]

I wonder if they are too far into development to add this now, or I wonder since they have so much control over the engine if it would be an easy addition if they wanted to add it.

My theory: They have designed this as a F2P game, which means that they will need to add content rather fast. It would be hard to believe that the process that they have in place for adding/removing items requires a vast amount of effort to complete.

I got the impression that they were already testing the heal/revive grenade and were trying to decide to use it or not, which means that most of the mechanics that would allow one to do this are already in place.

[Naeadil]

Can't believe so many "Planetside fans" would actually consider something like this a good mechanic. Typical Planetside Universe. Thanks for ruining my game.

Go play Global Agenda if you want MAGICAL FUTURISIC healing and revive grenades. Seriously, keep that crap out of this game.

[Alduron]

I mean I like the idea of an explosive healing device, just not something that can be bounced around corners and spammed.

Regardless, the scoped rifle healing weapon would be awesome. They really really really need to add that in as a secondary healing ability.

Great point about the corners...Hadn't given that much thought. Maybe it explodes upon any impact? I wish we had some more details on it.

My concern about the healing rifle is that the Medic could be well outside of the enemy's range and that enemy would be dealing with a person who effectively has 150% health.

I would hate to go up against someone who is being healed by someone I cannot take out rather quickly due to distance.

[Naeadil]

If the game is anything like PS1 (or even BF3 for that matter,) instantaneously rezz'ing someone in the middle of a fire fight, is going to be pointless. This is because the person that was just rezz'ed is going to die instantly. The main reason for this is most of the deaths occurred in the open, in LOS of the person that killed them seconds ago.

I see these grenades as a good thing, because they speed up the game for the Medic role and gives the role some substance.

Confirmed bad.

We're so far away from WoW that it shocks me that anyone would draw a comparison like that.

Well healing grenades and revive grenades are not far from Global Agenda, which is not far from WoW with guns.


IMO Battlefield 3 has the worst revival mechanic. A man gets a tank shell to the face in a game that is 98% grounded in reality and magical paddles make him pop right back up.
No shit, that's why I suggested RTCW gibbing system where you can "die" or be "dismembered" and reviving is impossible.


PS has long had the Nanite system, which makes much more sense to put into an AOE grenade. It probably shouldn't be instant, but I don't see any reason for the grenade to not exist.
That's because you're a trashual (trash + casual) gamer. You don't understand game design at all, you just blindly think "I LIKED PLANETSIDE AND EVERYTHING ABOUT IT" and "I HATED BF3 AND EVERYTING ABOUT IT."

This is perhaps the strongest argument for it. Medics are often neglected simply because very little people want to run around the battlefield bopping people with paddles. It would be nice to have some interesting tools available to the medic.

Confirmed bad, because you've obviously never played with a good team and/or medics. Yes, give medics interesting tools! See if I care! But sorry, HEALING GRENADES AND REVIVE GRENADES are not interesting. I know we're playing a futuristic sci-fi MMOFPS here but my suspension of disbelief isn't that suspended. You talk about "MAGICAL, MYSTERIOUS" PADDLES but then you think an AOE healing + AOE revive grenade makes sense? Sorry that I don't want my game to be a WoW Arena match where Medics on both sides are humping the wall throwing out grenades that instantly heal and revive a huge area. Why not just give Medics Chain Heal and call them Shamans? Give them raid frames too, hell yeah! The whole deal! World of PlanetSide 2: Mists of Auraxis. I CAN'T WAIT, CAN YOU BRO?

Borderlands let you heal teammates by shooting them with your normal weapons. PS2 is no place for this, but the fact that I could rocket my teammate in the face and he was healed was pretty sweet, and kept me playing the healer role.

http://wiki.planetsidesyndicate.com/images/4/4a/PSScreenShot0257.jpg

TLDR; Make Medics fun and engaging, not idiots who run around out of the fight throwing grenades that don't make sense to heal and revive people. Medics job should be hectic, not one where it's all sunshine and lollipops playing chicken behind a wall throwing out <33333333333333I LOVE EVERYBODY HEART GRENADES <333333333333333

Seriously, go watch some videos of people who played Medic in RTCW. Shit was fun, hectic, upfront, and engaging.

[Aurmanite]

Naedil, you need to expand the way you think. In fact, you need to start thinking. Saying things like 'WoW with guns' or 'Stupid magic rez grenades' are narratives that require no thought. They give you something to say without you having to actually form an opinion.

If you look at how other games have been innovative with their healer implementation its easy to see stuff like this can work very well. It allows the medic to have a more active role. Playing a medics will feel more like playing a first person shooter rather than a class that is stuck between a healer and soldier. Standing around with the medapp watching a casting bar is not gripping gameplay.

This ain't your game. It's SoE's game. We are lucky we get to play it. Stop being such an entitled brat.

[ShadoViper]

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL OLOL
TROLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO LOLOLOLLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

You mad bro? (I had to fucking do it man..) hahaha

http://img.tapatalk.com/4ac696c1-ee8f-7a8d.jpg

[Naeadil]

Naedil, you need to expand the way you think. In fact, you need to start thinking. Saying things like 'WoW with guns' or 'Stupid magic rez grenades' are narratives that require no thought. They give you something to say without you having to actually form an opinion.

If you look at how other games have been innovative with their healer implementation its easy to see stuff like this can work very well. It allows the medic to have a more active role. Playing a medics will feel more like playing a first person shooter rather than a class that is stuck between a healer and soldier. Standing around with the medapp watching a casting bar is not gripping gameplay.

This ain't your game. It's SoE's game. We are lucky we get to play it. Stop being such an entitled brat.

Confirmed for WoW nerd.

I never suggested the Med App should be the only way to heal. I offered several alternatives, such as Med kits and Paddles/Needles to revive.

This is a war game. Medics shouldn't be retards who run around and heal only. You gotta use a gun. You gotta fight. u gotta sk8.

And you're wrong about it feeling more like a FPS game. It will feel more like a MMORPG with these proposed healing and revive grenades. That's the problem. I don't want to hide behind walls and cast Flash Heals again. Leave that for World of Wartcraft please.

[Geist]

First off, let me say that no one should come to any conclusions before actually playing the fucking game.

Secondly, I can see plenty of ways for revival grenade to work while being balanced. One is probably the most obvious, make it so you can only carry 1 grenade at a time. But that really isn't enough to make it balanced. But, let's say it takes time once thrown. Let's play it safe and say it takes 10 seconds to revive everyone in a 5 meter radius, except enemies can destroy it while it's spewing nanites, so throwing into a hallway filled with enemies is inadvisable, and thus not that helpful in a firefight unless they died behind a wall due to explosives.

^ ;)

[Alduron]

Confirmed bad.
...by who?


Well healing grenades and revive grenades are not far from Global Agenda, which is not far from WoW with guns.
So the TR, VS, and NC came in on a space ship from a far off location, Space ships are used in Star Wars, which means that everyone on Auraxis must be a Jedi.


No shit, that's why I suggested RTCW gibbing system where you can "die" or be "dismembered" and reviving is impossible.
"Rebirthing technology allowed humans to deconstruct and reconstruct their bodies, but more importantly, workers who had lost their lives could be brought back to life using rebirthing technology."

Not only was Auraxis artificially manufactured, but the ancients had mastered "rebirthing." It's built into the lore of the game. It's the entire reason you can just pop back into a respawn tube and head out to fight again.

Battlefield totes that they are one of the "most realistic shooters." "Healing paddles" don't make any sense in the BF universe at all. I completely understand the need for it, it just doesn't fit.

There's no need to be dismembered, because in the Planetside lore, no one ever dies. It doesn't matter if we have healing/reviving grenades or rifles, no one ever dies.

Nanites are another huge part of the game, which are widely used and extremely mobile. It would make a lot of sense for someone to cram them in a canister and throw them at people.

That's because you're a trashual (trash + casual) gamer. You don't understand game design at all, you just blindly think "I LIKED PLANETSIDE AND EVERYTHING ABOUT IT" and "I HATED BF3 AND EVERYTING ABOUT IT."
I understand both pretty well. I might get a few things wrong sometimes, but I'm starting to think that you don't know anything about the PS universe.


Confirmed bad, because you've obviously never played with a good team and/or medics. Yes, give medics interesting tools! See if I care! But sorry, HEALING GRENADES AND REVIVE GRENADES are not interesting. I know we're playing a futuristic sci-fi MMOFPS here but my suspension of disbelief isn't that suspended.
Again, the PS lore has more than enough room for Healing/Revival grenades. So much so, that the devs themselves are toying with it. This isn't even about someone wanting it, it's something they are already fiddling with. I'd go on, but you're point is pretty much dead in the water right there.

You talk about "MAGICAL, MYSTERIOUS" PADDLES but then you think an AOE healing + AOE revive grenade makes sense? Sorry that I don't want my game to be a WoW Arena match where Medics on both sides are humping the wall throwing out grenades that instantly heal and revive a huge area. Why not just give Medics Chain Heal and call them Shamans? Give them raid frames too, hell yeah! The whole deal! World of PlanetSide 2: Mists of Auraxis. I CAN'T WAIT, CAN YOU BRO?
AOE Heal Grenade in PS = Canister of Nantes. BF Paddles = Magical Healing Paddles. You'd want to limit the amount they heal so you don't have an infinite heal army, but that's called "balancing."

http://wiki.planetsidesyndicate.com/images/4/4a/PSScreenShot0257.jpg
Here is a tank.
http://media.pcgamer.com/files/2011/02/44-Planetside-590x232.jpg




TLDR; Something something insult. LOL.

[LZachariah]

There are a lot of good thoughts bouncing around in this thread (and Duke, you happened to touch upon something I was thinking as well; should the grenades heal enemies to avoid spam?). One concern I have about that, tho, is that it could create a new form of griefing: healing enemies. So, i think that (not knowing much about what SOE has planned), my default idea would be that healing grenades should heal enemies too, so that Medics use them wisely, but that HEALING ENEMIES GENERATES GRIEF POINTS. This would be very important.

Again, not knowing what SOE has planned, and fully believing that Beta will give us tons of opportunities to test and troubleshoot various iterations of the game, I'm very hesitant about the idea of powers that have a cooldown, unless they're actually in the form of an Implant or something. I think healing grenades are fine, if the Medic has a fixed supply of them (just like frag grenades). Even a revive grenade could be fine, if they have a supply of them. Story-wise, it would be very easy to explain; the grenades are filled with nanites that seek out injured humans that have been IFF'd as "friendly" and it repairs their wounds or defibrilates them. Honestly, that sounds awesome, and extremely useful (and I'm definitely not a Medic, myself). However, I, like a lot of people here, think that turning these into "Cleric-like" powers with a cooldown is a bizarre departure from what we're used to. I would be amenable to considering Medic-specific Implants, but even then, this is opening up a door that SOE hasn't messed around with yet.

So, I'm concerned, but only mildly. I surely believe that Beta will be the time to really play around with these ideas :-)

~Zachariah

[Alduron]

There are a lot of good thoughts bouncing around in this thread (and Duke, you happened to touch upon something I was thinking as well; should the grenades heal enemies to avoid spam?). One concern I have about that, tho, is that it could create a new form of griefing: healing enemies. So, i think that (not knowing much about what SOE has planned), my default idea would be that healing grenades should heal enemies too, so that Medics use them wisely, but that HEALING ENEMIES GENERATES GRIEF POINTS. This would be very important.

Again, not knowing what SOE has planned, and fully believing that Beta will give us tons of opportunities to test and troubleshoot various iterations of the game, I'm very hesitant about the idea of powers that have a cooldown, unless they're actually in the form of an Implant or something. I think healing grenades are fine, if the Medic has a fixed supply of them (just like frag grenades). Even a revive grenade could be fine, if they have a supply of them. Story-wise, it would be very easy to explain; the grenades are filled with nanites that seek out injured humans that have been IFF'd as "friendly" and it repairs their wounds or defibrilates them. Honestly, that sounds awesome, and extremely useful (and I'm definitely not a Medic, myself). However, I, like a lot of people here, think that turning these into "Cleric-like" powers with a cooldown is a bizarre departure from what we're used to. I would be amenable to considering Medic-specific Implants, but even then, this is opening up a door that SOE hasn't messed around with yet.

So, I'm concerned, but only mildly. I surely believe that Beta will be the time to really play around with these ideas :-)

~Zachariah

You bring up a really great point. I don't see any reason for the enemy to not benefit from spammed grenades. It would indeed be very effective at keeping spam heals out of close quarter fights. It's a pretty good solution to the problem.

In any case, I don't think there will be much concern to be had. If it's in the game and it's too strong, they will nerf it. If no one likes it after playing with it, they will remove it. If the devs don't want it in the first place, we'll never see it.

[Aurmanite]

Confirmed for WoW nerd.

I never suggested the Med App should be the only way to heal. I offered several alternatives, such as Med kits and Paddles/Needles to revive.

This is a war game. Medics shouldn't be retards who run around and heal only. You gotta use a gun. You gotta fight. u gotta sk8.

And you're wrong about it feeling more like a FPS game. It will feel more like a MMORPG with these proposed healing and revive grenades. That's the problem. I don't want to hide behind walls and cast Flash Heals again. Leave that for World of Wartcraft please.

This whole post is complete red herring strawman garbage.

Have you played a shooter in the last 5 years? Return to Wolfenstein was mediocre try hardy wanna be nostalgic crap.

All of your vitrol revolves around a gigantic amount of poorly thought out assumptions. I would call you a troll but you actually believe what you're saying is poignant.

Games like Battlefield, Brink, and to a much lesser extent TF2 and Global Agenda handle the medic class very well. Systems like these could work very well in Planetside.

Your problem revolves aroundlacking the ability to put things into context. You see the word 'AoE' and you instantly make the connection to an rpg. If you were able to clearly think for yourself you would be able to see how these things apply to a shooter, which is what we're talking about here. Not an rpg, you simple minded fuck.

[Sirisian]

Your problem revolves aroundlacking the ability to put things into context. You see the word 'AoE' and you instantly make the connection to an rpg. If you were able to clearly think for yourself you would be able to see how these things apply to a shooter, which is what we're talking about here.
Words of wisdom. The concept of a science fiction game is foreign to most people that play modern military themed games. There are people that would look at the Router and go "That's just RPG teleport garbage" because their only experience with teleportation is in WoW. Science fiction is distinct, but the actual separation between "magic" and sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable. Actually just read this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clarke%27s_three_laws).


When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong.
The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.


I had this problem with the community when discussing "fantasy" implants (http://www.planetside-universe.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37211) actually which was a fun thread in the futility of intelligent discussion.

[Brusi]

Also did Global Agenda have healing grenades? If so, what was wrong in their implementation that hurt gameplay?

GA heal nades were fine, but not for Planetside. GA also had TF2 heal-beam up-the-ass style pocket-medic healing.

I have a pretty good imagination and am open to ideas that can be explained with a bit of Sci-Fi, but i am still really against combat healing in PS2.

Ideally, for me... any kind of AoE healing or rezzing in Planetside 2 would be in the form of a nanite-aeosol gas deployment device. A big heal or HoT that leaves you DoTed with a DoT that will eventually leave you with 1 HP and can only be removed by proper medical attention (1v1 with a medic, point blank with a med-applicatior).

Also, anything that insta-rezzes a person, so that they can instantly get up and start shooting should be like some sort of adrenaline stim-pack, that will leave them with a similar DoT (perhaps more aggresive).

And most importantly!!!

Any type of HEAL OVER TIME must be instantly CANCELLED should a player TAKE ANY DAMAGE.

Medics major role should be in promoting squad-coherency.

[Brusi]

Oh and yeah, i liked your fantasy implants thread...

That was the one about boobs with physics jiggle right?

[FriendlyFire]

*Friendlyfire throws grenade to revive Duke
(duke is around a corner, within 20ft of the enemy)
*Duke revives
***Duke has died

This is how I see it working. Noobs will throw random grenades, skilled players will rezz their teammates at appropriate times, while not being stuck with a non-combat item in their hands.

[Alduron]

Confirmed for WoW nerd.

I never suggested the Med App should be the only way to heal. I offered several alternatives, such as Med kits and Paddles/Needles to revive.

This is a war game. Medics shouldn't be retards who run around and heal only. You gotta use a gun. You gotta fight. u gotta sk8.

And you're wrong about it feeling more like a FPS game. It will feel more like a MMORPG with these proposed healing and revive grenades. That's the problem. I don't want to hide behind walls and cast Flash Heals again. Leave that for World of Wartcraft please.

For someone who says others don't understand game design, it's still pretty shocking that you're drawing comparisons between WoW and PS on a regular bases. Two games which have almost nothing in common as far as mechanics go.

-The PS grenade would have a skill, distance, and area of effect limit. Usually around 10 yards.
-The WoW AOE's are often click and place, area from you, or area around target. Often cast-able to 40 yards, and a area radius of 10 yards.

Throwing a grenade that requires compensation for arc and distance isn't even in the same realm as clicking a skill and placing it on the ground somewhere.

Also, you draw a comparison between an AOE grenade and a Flash Heal? That's the 3rd game that you've shown that you don't understand...I believe they have a term for people who don't understand the games they are talking about....trashual, perhaps?

[ThGlump]

*Friendlyfire throws grenade to revive Duke
(duke is around a corner, within 20ft of the enemy)
*Duke revives
***Duke has died

This is how I see it working. Noobs will throw random grenades, skilled players will rezz their teammates at appropriate times, while not being stuck with a non-combat item in their hands.

Ressing without endangering medic, could lead easily to griefing (if you could not deny res)

[Naeadil]

For someone who says others don't understand game design, it's still pretty shocking that you're drawing comparisons between WoW and PS on a regular bases. Two games which have almost nothing in common as far as mechanics go.

Basis*

By the way, I'm talking about Global Agenda and WoW, not Planetside and WoW. However, if Planetside 2 introduces these proposed heal and revive grenades, I will be drawing comparisons between Planetside 2 and WoW on a regular basis.


-The PS grenade would have a skill, distance, and area of effect limit. Usually around 10 yards.
-The WoW AOE's are often click and place, area from you, or area around target. Often cast-able to 40 yards, and a area radius of 10 yards.

This isn't even my worry. My worry is Medics will be hiding behind walls and throwing out grenades and line of sighting attackers like in World of Warcraft Arena and Global Agenda PVP. Medics should be soldiers who also heal. Not MYSTICAL HEALERS WITH MAGICAL GRENADES OF RESURRECTION who hide behind walls making skirmishes last longer because healers are just line of sighting attacks and constantly healing the Heavy Assault players with no risk.


Throwing a grenade that requires compensation for arc and distance isn't even in the same realm as clicking a skill and placing it on the ground somewhere.

Also, you draw a comparison between an AOE grenade and a Flash Heal? That's the 3rd game that you've shown that you don't understand...I believe they have a term for people who don't understand the games they are talking about....trashual, perhaps?

I wasn't directly comparing the grenade to a Flash Heal. I was just saying I don't want to go back to a similar feeling to the days in which I casted them in WoW. If I have to throw healing grenades and reviving grenades to be an effective medic, I'll feel like I'm playing WoW or GA. Get it bud? Probably not, it sounds like you have downs.

[Graywolves]

I don't see the revive grenade reaching launch unless it had a very small aoe and wasn't instant.

I'm indifferent towards the healing grenade.


It could make healing big groups easier, it could make healing overall easier. Could turn the medic into a medium assault who drops a med box for people to gather around and toss grenades at people who need it then run back to get more.


Personally, I'd rather just use the med-applicator.

-edit- But we can talk about my Healing Rifle that's scoped and single shot and heals people with healing darts.

Headshots can bonus heal too.

[Alduron]

Ressing without endangering medic, could lead easily to griefing (if you could not deny res)

I agree.

It's something they're going to have to contend with regardless of the style of rezzing. Medics in BF3 often sit around a corner and revive fallen teammates safely away from enemy fire.

I don't think the grenades should bounce off walls or anything if they are implemented.

[Aurmanite]

Basis*

By the way, I'm talking about Global Agenda and WoW, not Planetside and WoW. However, if Planetside 2 introduces these proposed heal and revive grenades, I will be drawing comparisons between Planetside 2 and WoW on a regular basis.



This isn't even my worry. My worry is Medics will be hiding behind walls and throwing out grenades and line of sighting attackers like in World of Warcraft Arena and Global Agenda PVP. Medics should be soldiers who also heal. Not MYSTICAL HEALERS WITH MAGICAL GRENADES OF RESURRECTION who hide behind walls making skirmishes last longer because healers are just line of sighting attacks and constantly healing the Heavy Assault players with no risk.



I wasn't directly comparing the grenade to a Flash Heal. I was just saying I don't want to go back to a similar feeling to the days in which I casted them in WoW. If I have to throw healing grenades and reviving grenades to be an effective medic, I'll feel like I'm playing WoW or GA. Get it bud? Probably not, it sounds like you have downs.

This entire post is a perfect example of how you can type a lot but not say one goddamn thing of value.

-Way to attack an obvious typo. That really bolsters your point.
-WoW is an RPG, Planetside is a shooter.
-Giving medics the ability to perform healing/resurrection without requiring them to stand still and wave their magic wand of healing will allow them to actually do some shooting... in the first person shooter they're playing.
-A healer using cover and playing tactical is a bad thing?
-Down syndrome insult, keeping it classy.

Your reasoning is bad. Your arguments are weak. You are rude and offensive. Fuck off chump.

[Alduron]

Basis*

By the way, I'm talking about Global Agenda and WoW, not Planetside and WoW. However, if Planetside 2 introduces these proposed heal and revive grenades, I will be drawing comparisons between Planetside 2 and WoW on a regular basis.

Global Agenda and WoW still have different mechanics. FPS and RPG's are different. Different mechanics, different reasons for the types of spells, different circumstances for the type of spell.

This isn't even my worry. My worry is Medics will be hiding behind walls and throwing out grenades and line of sighting attackers like in World of Warcraft Arena and Global Agenda PVP. Medics should be soldiers who also heal. Not MYSTICAL HEALERS WITH MAGICAL GRENADES OF RESURRECTION who hide behind walls making skirmishes last longer because healers are just line of sighting attacks and constantly healing the Heavy Assault players with no risk.
-Every game has the LOS problem, otherwise known as "tactic". I'm sorry that the healers in the two games you've played used the tactic to deny you kills.
-It's pretty clear that you missed my post on 8 and/or know nothing about the PS universe.

I wasn't directly comparing the grenade to a Flash Heal. I was just saying I don't want to go back to a similar feeling to the days in which I casted them in WoW. If I have to throw healing grenades and reviving grenades to be an effective medic, I'll feel like I'm playing WoW or GA. Get it bud? Probably not, it sounds like you have downs.
Even if the devs carry them into beta or live, the skill tree would presumably allow you to spec away from the healing grenades in favor of a stronger close-range heal. The funny thing about class systems is that you customize them how you want to play, and play something else if you don't want to toss grenades.

[sylphaen]

Just a thought:

if any class specialty item/skill availability is time based, I suggest that the timer starts charging up at spawn instead of being ready at spawn. (like it did for PS1 implants)

I'm not sure if it would go against the "fast-paced" aspect of PS2 but at least, it would promote survival and push players to wait for a medic rez instead of clicking back to the respawn tubes.

[Aurmanite]

Just a thought:

if any class specialty item/skill availability is time based, I suggest that the timer starts charging up at spawn instead of being ready at spawn. (like it did for PS1 implants)

I'm not sure if it would go against the "fast-paced" aspect of PS2 but at least, it would promote survival and push players to wait for a medic rez instead of clicking back to the respawn tubes.

I can dig it.

[Alduron]

I don't see the revive grenade reaching launch unless it had a very small aoe and wasn't instant.

I'm indifferent towards the healing grenade.


It could make healing big groups easier, it could make healing overall easier. Could turn the medic into a medium assault who drops a med box for people to gather around and toss grenades at people who need it then run back to get more.


Personally, I'd rather just use the med-applicator.

-edit- But we can talk about my Healing Rifle that's scoped and single shot and heals people with healing darts.

Headshots can bonus heal too.

I doubt we'll see the revival grenade, either. Not with the GAL and Squad Leader respawn.

I would also like to at least see a healing rifle. Whether it makes it past beta or not would be a different story. :)

[Shade Millith]

Look, somebody has to be vulnerable during the rezing.

Either the medic or the rezed guy.

BF3's system of 'Instant rezing, instantly back into combat' is NOT a good mechanic, and ruins the penalty of death. Nobody thinks a second thought about being killed if there's a medic/assault nearby. Now when you have 50-100 medics around...

There needs to be some delay (Not a recharge timer, doesn't work) to give people pause, and actually THINK about what's going on before running blindly into a wall of fire.

[Naeadil]

Higby, if you're reading this post:

Healing grenades and reviving grenades are killing ESPORTS.

[Aurmanite]

Look, somebody has to be vulnerable during the rezing.

Either the medic or the rezed guy.

BF3's system of 'Instant rezing, instantly back into combat' is NOT a good mechanic, and ruins the penalty of death. Nobody thinks a second thought about being killed if there's a medic/assault nearby. Now when you have 50-100 medics around...

There needs to be some delay (Not a recharge timer, doesn't work) to give people pause, and actually THINK about what's going on before running blindly into a wall of fire.

BF3's res system works really well...for Battlefield. There certainly is a penalty for death, it's dying. If you die (aside from headshots or getting blown up), a medic has to put away their weapon and res you. This often leads to them getting killed.

I agree with you though, free, unlimited, and instant resurrection isn't a good choice for Planetside. I think Brinks system would work extremely well. The medic throws you a self res needle, and you have to apply it. If someone shoots you while you're using it, back to the tubes for you.

One of the biggest things that isn't being considered is how limited a res grenade could be. It's likely that it will be deep in the medic tree, you will have a limited amount per life (possibly/probably only 1), and it could take some time to actually get a solider back on his feet.

All we know is "res grenade". We don't know how, how often, how much, when where or why.

Higby, if you're reading this post:

Healing grenades and reviving grenades are killing ESPORTS.

And you have the balls to call someone else a nerd? What Esports were you planning on participating in while playing Planetside, champ?

[Alduron]

All we know is "res grenade". We don't know how, how often, how much, when where or why.

Agreed. A lot of people seem to think that it's going to be an AoE rez, which may not be the case at all.

[DayOne]

I don't see why they don't add in a drag feature and then the revive animation just take a little while, like jamming the guy with a syringe full of healing nanites, a bit Like Arma but more sci-fi. Maybe a little later down the cert tree you unlock the grenade that healing grenade that contains these healing nanites but is much less effective.

This could be done by adding some sort of bleed out timer. You could explain it by saying that it is your suit holding you together but it draws a lot of power so it can only hold for a minute or two.

So the nanite needle heals even if there is only a second left till full death and you must respawn but the grenade will only work for the first 30 seconds or so.

[polywomple]

I agree with you though, free, unlimited, and instant resurrection isn't a good choice for Planetside. I think Brinks system would work extremely well. The medic throws you a self res needle, and you have to apply it. If someone shoots you while you're using it, back to the tubes for you.

this would be really cool

[ShadoViper]

Higby, if you're reading this post:

Healing grenades and reviving grenades are killing ESPORTS.

I'm pretty sure Higby couldn't read anything you have posted in this entire thread If he wanted to. I bet every time he went to read a gem of yours he teared up from laughing so hard at you he couldn't see straight.


Still not sure if you're trolling lol.

[Naeadil]

If Higby hasn't been laughing at my posts yet, the last one will get him. Without a doubt.

But seriously, not trolling.

[Alduron]

I'm pretty sure Higby couldn't read anything you have posted in this entire thread If he wanted to. I bet every time he went to read a gem of yours he teared up from laughing so hard at you he couldn't see straight.


Still not sure if you're trolling lol.

Haha, I'm starting to think he is.

[ShadoViper]

If Higby hasn't been laughing at my posts yet, the last one will get him. Without a doubt.

But seriously, not trolling.

http://img.tapatalk.com/4ac696c1-0d88-5442.jpg

[NewSith]

After all I read here I say:


Healing/Rez Grenade should NOT be cooldown-based. That gives too much advantage to camping. Instead 2-3 grenades. The tool should be more of a last resort measure.
Instarez is ok, as long as it's limited by ammo. Or the other way around, rez can be unlimited, but take time to complete. If you want to fasten the gameplay. Sidenote: vanilla shock paddles actually use batteries instead of oxygen, just so you know.
If you want an AoE heal, I'd rather had it work a-la BF2 medkit (not BF3). Medic should be health dispenser and be unable to fire while doing so. The healing must be instubstantial though. Preferrably it should stack.
Brink ressurection system worked well, but the physics and mechanics the game used were sh1t. If there's ever something like Brink healing, it MUST be reimagined.
For all those that are bound to MMORPG cliche. Does a decimator operator launching an AoE magic fireball look fantasy to you? Or medic casting his heal over a corpse in PS? Or Hart acting as a "dragon-taxi"?
Regarding Esports (I don't really know why I'm bringing this up, but) - if PS2 is ever an Esport, the branch will get its own set of rules.

[Talek Krell]

Both ideas are potentially difficult to balance but hardly dead on arrival.

I think some people are glossing over the importance of the intended feel of the role. My take on the medic has always been that they're intended as less of the group healer keeping everyone topped up and making sure the guys in front don't go down and more like an actual world war combat medic, one small soldier sitting just behind the front line of a very large war in a state of constant triage, completely overwhelmed by the casualties but refusing to stop trying. Devs only know whether that's still the intent, but I hope they haven't gone too far from it. I felt like it fit the game nicely.

I expect that the AoE heal, grenade or otherwise, will probably be easy enough to implement. The only sticking points I can think of are "what happens when you factor in ammo boxes?" and "what happens if we all go medic?". Testing either of those is probably going to have to be a thing for beta though.

The AoE revive might be more trouble. It can probably be balanced but I think it will require tweaking the game mechanics a lot, and ultimately the pros may not outweigh the cons.

[Shade Millith]

BF3's res system works really well...for Battlefield. There certainly is a penalty for death, it's dying. If you die (aside from headshots or getting blown up), a medic has to put away their weapon and res you. This often leads to them getting killed.

I disagree, the mere moments it takes a medic to change weapons and revive someone, is too short. However, this is not really what we should be discussing.

I agree with you though, free, unlimited, and instant resurrection isn't a good choice for Planetside. I think Brinks system would work extremely well. The medic throws you a self res needle, and you have to apply it. If someone shoots you while you're using it, back to the tubes for you.

So long as someone is vulnerable.

Either the Reviver needs to stand still over the corpse for 3-5 seconds, or the Revivee needs to take 3-5 seconds to stand up (While being vulnerable to being shot and killed again)

Anything less just removes any concept of death penalty. And that isn't a good thing.




Now for the big one ---

One of the biggest things that isn't being considered is how limited a res grenade could be. It's likely that it will be deep in the medic tree, you will have a limited amount per life (possibly/probably only 1), and it could take some time to actually get a solider back on his feet.

All we know is "res grenade". We don't know how, how often, how much, when where or why.

I play EVE Online. And there's a rather interesting parallel I'm spotting here.

EVE Online, quite some time back, introduced a new ship class. Super Capitals, consisting of Super Carriers and Titans. Massive ships capable of (at the time) changing a fight with just their presence, even before they unleashed their weapons. A SINGLE one could change a massive battle.

They attempted to balance this massive power, by months of skill training, astronomical costs, and huge build times. There was a quote that they only ever expected 3-4 Titans to ever be built. In the entire game.

November last year saw this. Supercapitals built: 41 titans, 94 supercarriers

October saw this. Supercapitals built: 33 titans, 93 supercarriers

September saw this. Supercapitals built: 23 titans, 109 supercarriers

Augest saw this. Supercapitals built: 23 titans, 125 supercarriers

Game started to be referred to as Supercaps Online.

There was a MASSIVE balancing of the ship class lately, and even still, they're an almost indomitable force. A group of 30 supercaps pretty much require 31 supercaps to defeat it.





Back to Planetside, and my point.

Anything that can change a battle will be used en mass. It doesn't matter how restrictive it is to obtain it, or how much you need to skill for it. The players will still use it in quantities the Developers never imagined. What's it's effect when 10 players have it? 20? 50? 100? And something as powerful as an instant, AOE resurrection, you can bet there's going to be hundreds of people skilling it.

I'm scared that this might turn into RezGrenades Online.

[Naeadil]

And you have the balls to call someone else a nerd? What Esports were you planning on participating in while playing Planetside, champ?
Woah, ho ho. Internet tough guy on our hands here. Serious business, yall. You dont get the reference, Aurmanite. Plus, I dont use nerd as a derogatory term. Way to overreact over nothing, sport. I know youre used to being called one, you should just learn to embrace it, bro. Its not such a bad thing. Were all Planetside nerds here. Youre not a nerd?

Interests
MMA, Boxing, Motorcycles, Video games, Starwars, Rock and Roll, Left hooks, Women, thinking out loud

You shouldnt lie to yourself bro.

Anyways, cant wait until Higby makes Planetside 2 an ESPORT. 3 year plan gogo!

[Aurmanite]

Woah, ho ho. Internet tough guy on our hands here. Serious business, yall. You dont get the reference, Aurmanite. Plus, I dont use nerd as a derogatory term. Way to overreact over nothing, sport. I know youre used to being called one, you should just learn to embrace it, bro. Its not such a bad thing. Were all Planetside nerds here. Youre not a nerd?



You shouldnt lie to yourself bro.

Anyways, cant wait until Higby makes Planetside 2 an ESPORT. 3 year plan gogo!

You creeped my profile... that\'s freaky. Should I be concerned?

This thread is about healing and resurrection, it ain\'t about me and my interests. Be less of a freak please.

[Aurmanite]

Apostrophe catastrophe
\' \' \'

[Geist]

Like I said before, just make it so that it has a cast time and can be destroyed by the enemy and a rez grenade is balanced. ;)

[Naeadil]

Who cares if they're balanced or not? The idea is retarded.

If Unicorns who shot laser beams out of their horn were in the game, and they were balanced, it would still be retarded.

Did I mention the idea was retarded anywhere in this post?

[Sirisian]

Did I mention the idea was retarded anywhere in this post?
Maybe, but you did make an awesome straman argument.

Anyone ever play the game Starship Troopers? They had a grenade where you'd cook it and it displayed a ring as it counted down. They could use such a mechanism for Planetside 2 to charge up a revive grenade or healing grenade.

Also I had an idea a while back. Allowing the medic to redirect their shield energy into a grenade to charge it. So to use such a thing they'd first make themselves somewhat vulnerable. Shields recharge so it might not be a big deal, but it's a thought.

[Naeadil]

Maybe, but you did make an awesome straman argument.

Anyone ever play the game Starship Troopers? They had a grenade where you'd cook it and it displayed a ring as it counted down. They could use such a mechanism for Planetside 2 to charge up a revive grenade or healing grenade.

Also I had an idea a while back. Allowing the medic to redirect their shield energy into a grenade to charge it. So to use such a thing they'd first make themselves somewhat vulnerable. Shields recharge so it might not be a big deal, but it's a thought.

Grenades are bombs.

Here, incase you forgot.

Grenade - YouTube

If you're going to make something like a "healing grenade or revive grenade," fine, so be it. But don't make it a GRENADE. Make it something like, oh I dunno...a medical droid or something. Grenades don't explode magical healing powers, even in the future. Sorry.

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080819104633/starwars/images/thumb/2/23/IT-O_negtd.jpg/659px-IT-O_negtd.jpg

[Fortress]

Also I want an AOE stun and boots that reduce my cooldowns.

[Bags]

I think it sound sdumb but I think we should see it in action first.

[Sirisian]

Grenades are bombs.
I think they were just referring to it being thrown by the player like a grenade, but didn't have a better analogy at the time during the interview. "Thrown healing device" would have helped to get rid of any confusion I agree. I've been going on the assumption they just meant something thrown by a medic.

[WaryWizard]

A grenade that heals/revives you is the same as a gun that, instead of bullets, shoots a healing salve that cures all wounds.


It's ironic

[Sirisian]

A grenade that heals/revives you is the same as a gun that, instead of bullets, shoots a healing salve that cures all wounds.
The part that's funny is they mentioned thinking about adding a "healing rifle" for the medic in one of the webcast discussions. It's good to see people keeping an open mind about that kind of stuff though.

It does make the medic class a lot more interesting than PS1 that's for sure. Especially if such a rifle is like a secondary fire mode. Get a grenade attachment with healing "grenades" and that would be an insane combat medic.

[Bags]

Dunno why people are surprised to hear this, seeing as 50% of the discussion of the game by devs is about making it faster.

[Naeadil]

I wouldn't be surprised if they were literal healing grenades. Global Agenda has them.

[Shade Millith]

Dunno why people are surprised to hear this, seeing as 50% of the discussion of the game by devs is about making it faster.

Because this is the problem, they're making it faster in the wrong fashion.

Being dead NEEDS to mean something. It already means little in FPS's with respawn. So what little we have needs to remain.

There's no reason to keep ones head down or even bother taking cover if reviving the dead take no effort or time.

They've already sped up the game massively with lower TTK's. It doesn't need need any more speeding up. Too much speeding this game up is going to turn it into BF3's run and gun gameplay.

And the rez grenades, like I mentioned in my last post, will be REQUIRED objects. The side with more of them wins. That becomes the entire game. Who has more grenades.

[Aurmanite]

Because this is the problem, they're making it faster in the wrong fashion.

Being dead NEEDS to mean something. It already means little in FPS's with respawn. So what little we have needs to remain.

There's no reason to keep ones head down or even bother taking cover if reviving the dead take no effort or time.

They've already sped up the game massively with lower TTK's. It doesn't need need any more speeding up. Too much speeding this game up is going to turn it into BF3's run and gun gameplay.

And the rez grenades, like I mentioned in my last post, will be REQUIRED objects. The side with more of them wins. That becomes the entire game. Who has more grenades.

Based upon this post it sounds like you have been playing a lot of Planetside 2.

The side with more guns wins. The side with more tanks wins. The side with more medics...

[FriendlyFire]

The idea behind healing grenades is great. If you think differently, that is your opinion.
If you post why it doesn't work, in these forums, you are breaking the NDA, or you have no idea what you are talking about.

Also to the guy that posted about explosive grenades,

EXPLOSIVE
NANITE
FUTURISTIC
HEALING
GRE N ADE S

[Aurmanite]

If you post why it doesn't work, in these forums, you are breaking the NDA, or you have no idea what you are talking about.


Exactly right.

[Alduron]

Grenades are bombs.
Just so there's no confusion for everyone, grenades are grenades, not bombs.

gre·nade
noun
1.
a small shell containing an explosive and thrown by hand or fired from a rifle or launching device.
2.
a similar missile containing a chemical, as for dispersing tear gas or fire-extinguishing substances.

While their most common use is to disperse an explosive, they can also be used to disperse a number of different things, including "healing nanites."

There's absolutely no reason for a "healing grenade" to not exist in PS2. Whether it should or not remains to be seen in testing.


The idea behind healing grenades is great. If you think differently, that is your opinion.
If you post why it doesn't work, in these forums, you are breaking the NDA, or you have no idea what you are talking about.
This, for sure.

[Geist]

Not sure if people would shoot at a "rez ball"... I think healing COULD be done with a grenade, but certainly not a ressurection grenade. If an entire hallway gets smacked, you are bringing alive a brand new army.. and they are too.... It would be a never ending battle of "get up and die" in the same exact place over and over and over.

No rez ball! A healing sniper rifle would be cool though.

I would definitely prefer a healing Sniper Rifle.

"Boom, Headshot. Got him back to full health." :p

But, I think you don't realize how people adapt to gameplay. You see a glowing ball spewing green stuff, and you know that it rezes people, wouldn't you shoot it?

[Talek Krell]

You see a glowing ball spewing gree stuff, and you know that it rezes people, wouldn't you shoot it?Indeed. Personally I think the sniper rifle would be more difficult to make work. It would take most of the risk out of being a medic.

[Naeadil]

Just so there's no confusion for everyone, grenades are grenades, not bombs.

gre·nade
noun
1.
a small shell containing an explosive and thrown by hand or fired from a rifle or launching device.
2.
a similar missile containing a chemical, as for dispersing tear gas or fire-extinguishing substances.

While their most common use is to disperse an explosive, they can also be used to disperse a number of different things, including "healing nanites."

There's absolutely no reason for a "healing grenade" to not exist in PS2. Whether it should or not remains to be seen in testing.



This, for sure.

Grenades are weapons.

[Duddy]

I agree that I think we need to see it in action first, having seen similar items in Global Agenda I think it'll work just fine. Furthermore it actually does make a medic a priority target.

Still a little sceptical about resurrection grenades, but we'll see.

[Alduron]

Grenades are weapons.

Grenades are still grenades. They are just a container that disperses it's contents in various ways. They can be weaponized. It would be like saying a plane is a weapon. Clearly it isn't, but it can be loaded with deadly contents and disperse them in various ways.

Paint Grenade - Basically a Toy
Fire Extinguishing Grenade - Utility
Smoke Grenade - Utility
IR Grenade - Utility (definitely not a weapon unless you have a severe allergy to IR light)
Frag Grenade - Weapon
Flash Grenade - Weapon (Non Lethal)
Tear Gas Grenade - Weapon (Non Lethal)

If you can load something up with confetti and throw it at children safely then it's not a weapon. Regardless of how badly you want to bend the English language, a grenade is always going to be a grenade.

[Arsenicfrog]

Global agenda has healing grenades for their medic class and it doesnt feel "Mage like" at all. If it can work in that game I have no doubt the devs can make it work and look great in PS2.

[Folly]

I used healing grenades in Global Agenda. Did not like the functionality there. Mainly because allies can never be relied upon to sit still long enough for the grenade to explode on them. I suppose a revive-grenade would be a different matter though.

I did love the nanite-gun in Global Agenda. Long-range, almost sniper-like gun that would cause the hit target to slowly regenerate for a while. Not super-effective at saving single targets who are being focused; but it's very useful for any allies who are smart enough to take cover when they start getting shot.

I do hope that PS2 medics will get lots of healing options that don't require their target to sit still as in PS1.

[DDSHADE]

I think that a ranged heal should be in the game but AoE heals and revive grenades should be severely limited.

But I DO hope infiltrators are granted at least personal heal abilities, maybe as well as reviving too.

[Brusi]

I really doubt that we will be allowed infil revive, as it seems that they have made the class system to directly removed things that they think will be too OP or annoying (such as unfindable, stealthed rezzers), however i really liked that aspect of Planetside. Invisible super support.

I don't even think stealthed rezzing was really that OP due to how easy it was to randomly die as a cloaker in a base fight. But now that cloakers are going to have their invis buffed against cheaters, and we are possibly dealing with larger player numbers, i can see it getting annoying. Esepcially if they put in spastic BF insta rez.

Even so, i would totally train a week long cloaker skill that gave me a single rez, every 12 or even 24hrs lol

Would be awesome in combination of some sort of Feign Death skill haha.

[FireStormNova]

I also think AOE heals/revives could work well. I know people or worried about it being over powered but can be easy balanced like other mmo's have done. I have not played PS2 so i can onely guess on a few?
1. If there is a tree skill system they would have to specialize into it to get certain abilities?
2.Mass Revive could only work on people in your squad/platoon
3.Mass Revive is on a long cool down timmer.
4.Revived bodys only come back with 25% health or less.
There are alot more , but ill stop there : this is only a example of what some mmo's have used to help balance there healing classes.
You dont have to recreate the wheel just tune it so it runs alot smoother and faster! *wink* =)
LOL i also like the idea of a healing granade or healing aura if you have to specialize into it!

[FireStormNova]

Grenades are bombs.

Here, incase you forgot.

Grenade - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfyNcn87gPI)

If you're going to make something like a "healing grenade or revive grenade," fine, so be it. But don't make it a GRENADE. Make it something like, oh I dunno...a medical droid or something. Grenades don't explode magical healing powers, even in the future. Sorry.

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080819104633/starwars/images/thumb/2/23/IT-O_negtd.jpg/659px-IT-O_negtd.jpg

Well i have to agree on the Droid V Granade : I think if we voted on it most people would rather see a healing droid deploy over seeing a healing granade exploding! :groovy:

[Papscal]

In Vas Mani, add a spell casting animation and the job is complete. Welcome to the mmoRPG market PS2.