PS2 High-Level vehicle balance? - Higby/T-Ray/RadarX

[TerminatorUK]

Dear devs,

Could I enquire into how empire specific vehicles will be balanced at a high-level?

Taking the topic of main battle tanks in PS1, these were balanced on a pro/con basis rather than against each other.

Assuming new/lower experienced players, the Magrider was arguably the best anti-tank vehicle but not as good at Infantry, Prowler the opposite (great AI, difficult AV at range) and needed extra crew but could target multiple enemies etc... with the Vanguard being quick, well armoured, low profile and pretty good at both AV/AI but not excelling in either department over the other two.

Certainly balanced but not really against each other.

My question is - will vehicles again be balanced in a fairly destinct rock/paper/scissors fashion where vehicles in another class may need to compensate for an Empire\'s specific weakness or is it more likely that they will be balanced directly against each other?

Many thanks in advance for any information :)

[basti]

D
Assuming new/lower experienced players, the Magrider was arguably the best anti-tank vehicle but not as good at Infantry, Prowler the opposite (great AI, difficult AV at range) and needed extra crew but could target multiple enemies etc... with the Vanguard being quick, well armoured, low profile and pretty good at both AV/AI but not excelling in either department over the other two.



Ohgod, wrong on SO MANY LEVELS!

Magrider: Strongest AA, clearly, because of the main gun (if you figured out the projectile speed, you took down reavers left right center) The thin profile from front/back was quite useful, if used correctly. The ability to strafe is brilliant, as it literally allowed you to dodge shots. And the PPA, while not doing much damage against anything, was still quite useful as support fire.
Vanguard: CLEARLY the best AI. didnt need a direct hit to kill a softie, can actually kill a max with a direct hit (yes, it can). A skilled Vanguard gunner fucked up everyons day. Once you knew how the fireing arc worked, nothing ground based was save. Only range could help you, means the magrider had a good chance against a vanguard. Besides that, the low profile was quite an advantage, if used correctly.
Prowler: Was actually a mix of both Vanguard and Magrider. The ROF made it easier to figure out the right arc, the chaingun was quite good against air, and the main gun was still pretty strong against Maxes and Softies. Downside of it was the big ass profile that made it easy to hit.

And Balace? well, they where balaced, all 3 of them, if you used their strenght and weaknesses correctly.

But in terms of Planetside 2, nothing of that matters at all. New game, new engine, whole lot of stuff different. Tanks shoot differently now, just watch the The9 Video. Besides, balance is clearly a beta thing. They may have gotten somewhat close to balace, but beta will be the real test. So can just chill. :)

[Mastachief]

Terminator hit it bang on with the Mag, but it was also great at AA.

The reason the mag is best at AV was that you had to be a complete noob to miss a shot. The mag could sit at range and muller the prowler and vanguard however they seldom do because the driver has a gun too so he/she must pewpewpew. The prowler is the best AI due to the way the shells arched and the rapid fire with the chaingun chipping away too. The vanny was a great all-rounder.

Personally i would like to see the balance done similar again but not sure how that will work with sidegrades.

[basti]

Terminator hit it bang on with the Mag, but it was also great at AA.

The reason the mag is best at AV was that you had to be a complete noob to miss a shot. The mag could sit at range and muller the prowler and vanguard however they seldom do because the driver has a gun too so he/she must pewpewpew. The prowler is the best AI due to the way the shells arched and the rapid fire with the chaingun chipping away too. The vanny was a great all-rounder.

Personally i would like to see the balance done similar again but not sure how that will work with sidegrades.

The Mag is only good at range, and if your driver is good. Get to close to a Vanny/Prowler, and you are toast.

[Mastachief]

Correct.

[Xaine]

Meh, i thought the Mag was the strongest Tank going - but maybe thats because i played VS and never really used the other two much.

Sort of made up for the fact that the VS BFR was absolutely fucking abysmal compared to the other two.

I loved the main cannon on the Magrider, as has been mentioned - it could rape Air Cav if you were good with it.

I've been playing shooters competitively since i was about 12, so my twitch/aim is at a pretty slick level (After 10 years of FPSs it bloody should be). I always got gasps of amazement from my Driver after i took down Reavers flying at full speed overhead.

[ringring]

Meh, i thought the Mag was the strongest Tank going - but maybe thats because i played VS and never really used the other two much.

Sort of made up for the fact that the VS BFR was absolutely fucking abysmal compared to the other two.

I loved the main cannon on the Magrider, as has been mentioned - it could rape Air Cav if you were good with it.

I've been playing shooters competitively since i was about 12, so my twitch/aim is at a pretty slick level (After 10 years of FPSs it bloody should be). I always got gasps of amazement from my Driver after i took down Reavers flying at full speed overhead.
I play TR and I think the Mag is the strongest tank going (this opinion is gleaned from driving magriders). The PPA isn't bad at all.

The prowler is great, but I don't like the Vanguard.

However back to the point, I prefer that the balance isn't done on a basis of equals. I'd like empire specific weaponry to have empire specific characteristics.

[DviddLeff]

As a dedicated Mag driver (and part time gunner) I love the Mag, but I see its weaknesses.

3 direct shots to kill infantry?
Lowest armour?

Engage a Prowler/Van/group of infantry at close range and you are screwed; out damaged every time. Get close to infantry driving a Prowler/Van and you just rack up the kills, splash damage wastes troops behind cover as good as instantly.

Range was the Mags friend, sit back on a vantage point and hammer the enemy until they fall back, but try and push the line with them and they were simply not as good as the other empires; we had to have the Aurora to flush out troops.

Yes the Mag was better at taking down aircraft (loved taking out after burning Mosquitoes!) and floated which compensated for its weaknesses, and to be honest these almost made it up; two direct hits killing infantry would have made it balanced overall in my opinion.

[TerminatorUK]

Thanks Masterchief :)

Possibly might not have made it completely clear whst I meant initially but I'm not really concerned with the specifics more like a general trend.

E.g.

- All three excel at AV but have different weaponry delivery mechanisms (but roughly have the same tactics and pros/cons with differences being largely cosmetic...think Russian T60(?) vs US Abraams in BF3)

- Each has its unique pro/con list and excel in different areas like PS1

[ThGlump]

You can forget mag being good AA in ps2. His canon is too low, and probably cant elevate too much. Mag was also fastest of them, now it will be prowler.
One advantage will be kept, and thats direct line shot. It will be handy, in long distance static tank shootouts which i expect to be more common than driving near enemy (where prowler and vanguard shine - but they can shoot over obstacles at longer distances).

[Xaine]

As a dedicated Mag driver (and part time gunner) I love the Mag, but I see its weaknesses.

3 direct shots to kill infantry?
Lowest armour?

Engage a Prowler/Van/group of infantry at close range and you are screwed; out damaged every time. Get close to infantry driving a Prowler/Van and you just rack up the kills, splash damage wastes troops behind cover as good as instantly.

Range was the Mags friend, sit back on a vantage point and hammer the enemy until they fall back, but try and push the line with them and they were simply not as good as the other empires; we had to have the Aurora to flush out troops.

Yes the Mag was better at taking down aircraft (loved taking out after burning Mosquitoes!) and floated which compensated for its weaknesses, and to be honest these almost made it up; two direct hits killing infantry would have made it balanced overall in my opinion.

This, pretty much.

Although i thought the balance in PS1 was pretty spot on in general. No one empire won all the time because they had overpowered tanks/weapons.

[Quovatis]

Basti, a vanguard cannot kill a MAX in one direct hit. You are wrong sir. In fact, a rexo can survive a direct hit with the health mod benefit (120 health). Experienced this from both sides.

In my experience (which includes cavalry driver auraxium), the vanguard is garbage. The prowler has double the rate of fire and still insta-kills infantry. Still prefer the magrider overall though. I'd never pull a vanguard if a mag or prowler were available.

As for PS2, I expect them to be similarly balanced, but it will be much harder with all the upgrades/sidegrades available. That's what beta is for I suppose.

[BlazingSun]

Ohgod, wrong on SO MANY LEVELS!

Vanguard: CLEARLY the best AI. didnt need a direct hit to kill a softie, can actually kill a max with a direct hit (yes, it can). A skilled Vanguard gunner fucked up everyons day. Once you knew how the fireing arc worked, nothing ground based was save. Only range could help you, means the magrider had a good chance against a vanguard. Besides that, the low profile was quite an advantage, if used correctly.


You are also wrong .. but only a bit. A Vanguard could not instant kill MAXes. And personally I would rate the Prowler the better AI tank, since one shot still kills, but it has a higher firerate than the Vanguard.