PlanetSide as a Leadership Skill

[Hamma]

http://www.planetside-universe.com/news-planetside-as-a-leadership-skill-2698.htm

[basti]

100% True. Ive learned a lot from PS back in the day, that gets used im my life these days.

[Goku]

Coming from my PlanetSide experience I will say there was many opportunities for someone to be a leader in terms of commanding a squad to a entire Outfit. However I believe only a minority of the player base can be called a actual leader. Sure everyone wanted to get CR5 and many did, but the majority of CR whoring CEP squads I was in the leader didn't care what you were doing in the squad. Instead of giving actual direction they would just kick you from the squad if you weren't in the SOI to give them their CEP. Even Outfit squads had this issue. Rarely did the actual SL lead if the Outfit Leader or a XO was on to run things unless the SL actually wanted to run stuff. Which was rare in my outfit at least.

[EVILPIG]

Planetside saw some fantastic leaders, but the game was flawed in that too many unqualified individuals attained leadership tools. Planetside 2 will be much different, as the players will choose who they want to hear and follow.

To expand on the point of the article. There have many who have put down gaming for some time. When I was young, I played some paper and pen RPG games and it was frowned on by some, but I did a TON of reading of the resource books and this was definitely beneficial. Planetside is one of many games that offer an opportunity for an individual to use and evolve their leadership and organizational skills. Many try and simply don't have the social skills to do it. Some are great at logistics, but cannot manage the relationships to keep a team on task and successful. You need to be a people person and you need to be able to clearly communicate what you mean. I am soo looking forward to working with the player base again. Old faces and new.

[Akemo]

What an interesting take on Planetside!

I've got to agree that leadership can be learned from some games, especially ones like Planetside. I think that yes, there were plenty of squad leaders that just wanted CR5 and were whoring the CEP, but there were also lots of squad leaders and outfit leaders and officers who took their roles seriously. In a group that I frequently ran with, there were about 6 of us. One had been in the military as an officer, and he frequently led our group. We didn't mind that he was long since a CR5, he knew how to bring out the best in us and we liked being our best. :D

And pretty regularly, and I don't know if he was tired of always leading or wanted us all to get the experience of leadership, one of the rest of us would take charge of the squad. We'd plan what we wanted to do, how to do it, and then we'd execute our little strategy. Leading as we went. Good times! :) :) :)

[Crator]

I'm surprised when I hear parents say they hate it when kids play videos games, especially nowadays. Like it some sort of mindless task that doesn't benefit anyone. Many video games have aspects that help people, rather then harm:

Video Games Affect the Brain—for Better and Worse (http://dana.org/news/cerebrum/detail.aspx?id=22800)

[Sardwyn]

We all remember the best leaders in Planetside. The CEP whores are all forgotten.

[UnknownDT]

Planetside taught me how to be a real boy.

[Geist]

So, what your saying is if I lead the players of my Empire to victory... I can lead the resistance to victory against Skynet? :brow:

[Hermes]

I always thought PS1 was a great social example of organisation. I used to go on and on about it to people - how the command structure evolved from the players and the skills they learnt.

On a side note, the way the guy separated the title into two words("Planet Side") reminds me of my parents. They always used to break a word down into two bits if they weren't in touch with it/down with the kids. :D

[texico]

Yes. I think there's an unfair perception about video games that they're somehow hollow. It really depends on the game. A game like PlanetSide with tactical organization and teamwork can be great for leadership and social skills. A game like Final Fantasy can be great for developing your imagination, story telling abilities and empathy. Games like Portal can be great for problem solving and logic skills. They can all be great for you.

People who snub games are really being ignorant, and the stereotypes tagged to gaming can really hurt its image.


What PlanetSide in particular can do is allow people to begin to develop leadership skills in an easier environment. With the social buffers of not being face to face with somebody, it's easier to begin giving commands, learning how to deal with people, and so on, when that person would find it difficult to get on the leadership ladder in real life. The consequences of being a bad leader aren't so great, so you can experiment.

[EVILPIG]

Absolutely, the younger generation voluntarily played a game that caused them to problem solve a situation, make quick precise decisions and how to deal with the consequence if it was wrong. Then they did it again.


These basic principals are what we use in every day life. Cause and effect. Conditioning your brain to do this at 15 and 16 years old leaves an imprint for life I believe.

They learn to communicate, building interpersonal communcation skills (even though some are bat shit nerdy.) They still learn too communicate regardless.

And not just for leaders, for the followers as well.. They learn how to take direction, accept what they don't understand that moment without a fight and LEARN it's purpose afterwards by experience.

Video games are an excellent visually fun tool to learn with in general, Planetside did it a little better than most.

This is why I hate it that players are always trying to think up ways to dumb down the game. We don't need automated systems to organize and in fact, it's a more beautiful thing when players pull together and coordinate on their own. My outfit organized platoons as three squads per platoon, each platoon in a squad channel. Player got on and got into the division they wanted to play on outfit channel. All of this was done long before the LFS system, the platoon system and SL Chat. I say don't put automated systems in and let the players decide how to succeed or fail amongst themselves. The real stars will rise and shine.

[Mag]

Ha! This is actually my father's blog. He shot me an email this morning saying that he'd mentioned me in it. Glad you all enjoyed the read. Here's the article in its non-rehosted format.

http://eblingroup.com/2012/03/is-your-organizational-development-plan-ready-for-connect-and-collaborate.html#more-3157

At any rate, the outfit back in those days was Strength and Honour (We were NC on Markov, and I recognize more than a few names around here of outfits and folks we'd coordinate with pretty routinely).
SnH is still together, largely with the same base membership these days, though we've moved on to other games while waiting for PS2.

[SniperSteve]

I have PlanetSide on my resume! (not really, but I should)

[EVILPIG]

Ha! This is actually my father's blog. He shot me an email this morning saying that he'd mentioned me in it. Glad you all enjoyed the read. Here's the article in its non-rehosted format.

http://eblingroup.com/2012/03/is-your-organizational-development-plan-ready-for-connect-and-collaborate.html#more-3157

At any rate, the outfit back in those days was Strength and Honour (We were NC on Markov, and I recognize more than a few names around here of outfits and folks we'd coordinate with pretty routinely).
SnH is still together, largely with the same base membership these days, though we've moved on to other games while waiting for PS2.

WOW, I wondered who it was. GREAT to see you Mag!

[Mag]

Howdy! Nice to see so many of us still around. Recognized you and SgtMAD from back in the days of RRTs.

[Bos Carnis]

I disagree. I was never in an outfit that had much leadership. Either they didn't care what you were doing or if they had at least modicum of leadership, they simply told you what continent to go to and what base to attack. Everything else was just doctrinal: "Cert this and that, don't use that weapon!"

This was compounded by the CR5 system, which encouraged non-leaders to take formal lead of a squad just so they could attain a big sky laser.

Maybe I just had some bad experiences (I did come to the game sort of late) but I saw a LOT more leadership in EVE online.

[Mag]

In my experience, PlanetSide was definitely the major testing ground. SnH before PlanetSide was a massive guild in a game called "Earth and Beyond." I took over the PlanetSide division when the game first entered beta.

What I learned while running the group in PlanetSide was that building community was far more important than numbers or tactics. If everyone got along well, they'd eventually work well tactically. We could teach people to get better, teaching them not to be jerks was tougher.

[Boomzor]

With a sample as large as the planetside player base from all time, it's no wonder you get all shapes, colours and interests.

But yes, you do get people who want to lead, you do get people who want to co-operate towards a common goal. You also come across asshats and idiots who'll run off on their own tangent and sod anybody else.

It's not just Planetside. It's every game with a multiplayer feature. It's just that you get a nice perspective and clear cut contrasts when it gets to the MMO scale.

But you know what? You learn how to deal with people and the issue that arise in those contacts, and you get to do it in a rather harmless and playful environment. I'm sure most of us come out enriched by that on a personal level.

[RedKnights]

Planetside in terms of outfits was like any other kind o leadership organization, like Scouting, in that those who led best, succeeded.

You also learned a lot about getting people to WANT to do what you wanted them to do rather than forcing them to do it, since all players are just voluneers, like a militia. Leadership during Planetside's hayday was critical, and it definitely helped my abilities, and outgoingness....

[EVILPIG]

We could teach people to get better, teaching them not to be jerks was tougher.

Which is the greatest challenge on the Internet.

[Elude]

I don't think Planetside really taught me anything :(. It was sure as hell fun though!

[L4G]

I have PlanetSide on my resume! (not really, but I should)

I had a mock interview as part of my foundation degree last year and Planetside Experience as outfit leader of one of Werners biggest TR outfits and experiences leading groups of 30+ individuals at towards the same goal was on my CV.

Got questioned about it and afterwards told it was an unusual thing to include but very relevant for the times we live in :groovy:

[Timey]

Lol I would still certainly NOT put "playing planetside for x years" in my cv :p

[Figment]

Planetside taught me how to be a real boy.

I thought Mirror made you a real boy? :x

And Hippo made you a real girl? :o

[Akemo]

They learn to communicate, building interpersonal communcation skills (even though some are bat shit nerdy.) They still learn too communicate regardless.

[Stammers] I . . . you . . . wrong . . . you . . . nerd . . . not . . . me . . . !!!

J/K. You're totally right, but the nice thing about a video game is, that doesn't matter, even to people who might care in "real life."

[Shogun]

nice blog! and it´s true.

i used planetside to train when i had to play the role of a fighter squad leader in a fanfilm.
took squad lead for outfit squad, told everyone, that i want to train military style, fired up teamspeak and did some roleplaying.and maybe this experience came in handy, when i was managing my team at work for the last year.

[Sardus]

Ha! This is actually my father's blog. He shot me an email this morning saying that he'd mentioned me in it. Glad you all enjoyed the read. Here's the article in its non-rehosted format.

http://eblingroup.com/2012/03/is-your-organizational-development-plan-ready-for-connect-and-collaborate.html#more-3157

At any rate, the outfit back in those days was Strength and Honour (We were NC on Markov, and I recognize more than a few names around here of outfits and folks we'd coordinate with pretty routinely).
SnH is still together, largely with the same base membership these days, though we've moved on to other games while waiting for PS2.

That's pretty cool of your dad and I agree with him 100%. I work for a construction company and I attribute my management skills to those that I learned from running and leading my outfit in planetside for over 7 years while in highschool and college.

It also taught me how to talk shit and cuss like a sailor too LOL. But I'm not complaining because I work for the railroad and it helped prepare me for that side of it ;)

[Trolltaxi]

Mentioning PS in CVs is an Outcaster habit it seems L4G! :)

I even mentioned PS in my Europass CV when I was applying for a EU-expert work. "Social skills and competences: Experience in leading 'achievement oriented' project groups in a multilingual environment." True? True... :trollface:

[DviddLeff]

Without the experience of running and leading my outfit I would never have had the confidence or skills to become a teacher.

[CidHighwind]

As a highschool teacher and developing professional, I can vouch that students who take initiative and are able to see video games as more than just entertainment DO take more away from them than just the game.

I am that teacher who wants to know what everyone did over their weekend, and those students who say "played video games" I ask them what they learned from them. At first they thought I was mocking them, but once they realized that I was serious, they began looking for meaning. Even they were surprised by what they found. Leadership was one thing, but they also learned anger management, problem-solving skills, logic, deductive reasoning, intensive situational assessment, and one even said that a video game managed to help him save a relationship by rebonding his group of friends - and his significant other.

Video games NEED to begin being considered in the field of education. They mean more to students now than text-books ever have. They are interactive living, and everyone can tell you that living the experience is far better for learning that reading it from a book.

[SniperSteve]

I had a mock interview as part of my foundation degree last year and Planetside Experience as outfit leader of one of Werners biggest TR outfits and experiences leading groups of 30+ individuals at towards the same goal was on my CV.

Got questioned about it and afterwards told it was an unusual thing to include but very relevant for the times we live in :groovy:


NICE..

[scape211]

I think (or hope) all will agree that the best times we had in Planetside or games in general is when our team was well organized.

I ran with a small outfit for a few months on PS back in the day and it ruined me for every other squad, platoon, and outfit I was in afterward. We were tight. We all had extremely defined roles during Gal drops, specific positions while waiting for a base to turn, and many other small things we ALL had to take in.

Specifically, I remember our outfit leader calling a mandatory meeting in the sanctuary at a remote tower. We practiced attacking and defending, but worked on special instances like when someone died and waited for a medic. Our outfit leader told us where to stand and hold our guns while someone was revived. Then we tested it and one of the new recruits didn’t pay attention and pointed his gun toward the ground. Our outfit leader shot him on the spot. It was funny, but showed a level of devotion and commitment I never saw again in the game beyond that group. Gosh I hope the new one lives up to that for me.

[Hamma]

Ha! This is actually my father's blog. He shot me an email this morning saying that he'd mentioned me in it. Glad you all enjoyed the read. Here's the article in its non-rehosted format.

http://eblingroup.com/2012/03/is-your-organizational-development-plan-ready-for-connect-and-collaborate.html#more-3157

At any rate, the outfit back in those days was Strength and Honour (We were NC on Markov, and I recognize more than a few names around here of outfits and folks we'd coordinate with pretty routinely).
SnH is still together, largely with the same base membership these days, though we've moved on to other games while waiting for PS2.

hahah! This is awesome. I was really wondering if it was someone here. Good stuff! :)

[robocpf1]

This is why I hate it that players are always trying to think up ways to dumb down the game. We don't need automated systems to organize and in fact, it's a more beautiful thing when players pull together and coordinate on their own. My outfit organized platoons as three squads per platoon, each platoon in a squad channel. Player got on and got into the division they wanted to play on outfit channel. All of this was done long before the LFS system, the platoon system and SL Chat. I say don't put automated systems in and let the players decide how to succeed or fail amongst themselves. The real stars will rise and shine.

The innate issue with this is that at the end of the day it's also a game, and an enterprise for SOE. It still has to be fun and not frustrating. Or more specifically, if it is frustrating, it needs to be other players and the war itself that is the frustrating part, not the game's interface or any player tools.

What's the problem with a LFS list? What's the problem with targeting tools and waypoints and the different hack beam colors and all these things that "dumb down" the game? They don't make the game any easier to win, they just make it easier to organize a group, and that's the crux. The group itself still has to make itself rise above the rest, to truly shine; but there are people that play casually, remember, and not in highly organized outfits - and these people are expecting modern game interfaces and tools.

I for one agree that it's a beautiful thing when players organize themselves. To a certain point, no, we don't "need" these systems in place to organize. But why not have them? It's technology, it's advancement, it makes the dull administrative work easier on us so we can focus on the things that actually make the game and the war challenging and fun. I don't want to sit in sanc inviting members to my platoon manually when I can list three squads and get everyone into them in a matter of seconds.

I believe there is truly a difference between a game mechanic that "dumbs down the game" and a mechanic that makes the game better. Improving the interface and giving us organizational tools, in my opinion, makes the game better because it makes our experience better; it helps us quickly and efficiently find the information we need and carry out the administrative tasks necessary to running a squad/platoon/outfit/unit. Now, something that would "dumb down the game" would be something like auto-aim, or third person camera for everything, or a mine proximity sensor, or something like that. Whether you're in a squad you made yourself or a squad you listed doesn't really affect how the game plays out or who shoots what, that's still up to the outfits to determine through skill and a deeper level of organization than a squad list can provide, and that's the difference between good outfits and great outfits.

I think an outfit should be able to completely prove themselves through what they accomplish playing the game - it's certainly impressive to be able to organize without any of the tools given to us, but it's also highly inefficient and wastes time that could be better spent getting into the fight and enjoying the game.

---

Whoops. So, topic at hand, totally agreed on everything I see here about leadership. I put it on my resume, too...something like "Director of Operations for Online Community" or "Chief Administrator" or something. Video games are a very important method for today's youth (and not youth, for that matter) to experience personal relationships in a less intense and less consequential manner, and that's crucial. It lets one experiment and try things out that they'd be too shy or bashful or not confident enough to do in real life. If it works here on the internet without people laughing you off, it might work in real life to the same effect.

[Graywolves]

Another of many things to add to my "overqualified for entry-level jobs" list.

By many I mean 1.

[SgtMAD]

I find this humorous,I started playing PS at the beginning(open beta) and managed to hijack every outfit that I joined,I have over 35 years in construction and I was the foreman or the lead man for most of that time due to the fact that I can think on my feet and didn't forget what I was being taught by the older guys I worked with.

dealing with ppl that you have no real physical contact or the ability to fire them is complex to say the least,you have to find like minded ppl that will "buy" into the fantasy of all of you being in combat together.

I do know that ppl do learn skills that are useful in the real world,I have a few guys that started playing with Ht when they were in high school and I rode them all the time about doing their goddamn homework and other crap their parents were on them about and had great results,every one of them either went on to college or have good jobs.

you can teach leadership skills to just about anyone,what really matters is if they have the balls to apply what they have learned.

[cellinaire]

Aw, that article reminds me of all the fiascos which are happening in S.Korea (between game industry and government, ya know)

[Captain1nsaneo]

Learned a ton from PS. Being part of a good outfit definitely helped my social skills in a variety of ways.

[Sardus]

So are you a manager or railroad operator? :P

I'm a project engineer working for a railroad construction company. Organizing, planning and directing construction crews is scarily similar to organizing a planetside raid or outfit (and they both require sometimes giving a swift kick in the ass).

[Sardus]

As a highschool teacher and developing professional, I can vouch that students who take initiative and are able to see video games as more than just entertainment DO take more away from them than just the game.

I am that teacher who wants to know what everyone did over their weekend, and those students who say "played video games" I ask them what they learned from them. At first they thought I was mocking them, but once they realized that I was serious, they began looking for meaning. Even they were surprised by what they found. Leadership was one thing, but they also learned anger management, problem-solving skills, logic, deductive reasoning, intensive situational assessment, and one even said that a video game managed to help him save a relationship by rebonding his group of friends - and his significant other.

Video games NEED to begin being considered in the field of education. They mean more to students now than text-books ever have. They are interactive living, and everyone can tell you that living the experience is far better for learning that reading it from a book.

Strategy games in general really do help to sharpen your mind. Especially when it comes to mathematics, geometry, engineering, etc. Some games are more beneficial than others, of course ;)

[Sardus]

The innate issue with this is that at the end of the day it's also a game, and an enterprise for SOE. It still has to be fun and not frustrating. Or more specifically, if it is frustrating, it needs to be other players and the war itself that is the frustrating part, not the game's interface or any player tools.

What's the problem with a LFS list? What's the problem with targeting tools and waypoints and the different hack beam colors and all these things that "dumb down" the game? They don't make the game any easier to win, they just make it easier to organize a group, and that's the crux. The group itself still has to make itself rise above the rest, to truly shine; but there are people that play casually, remember, and not in highly organized outfits - and these people are expecting modern game interfaces and tools.

I for one agree that it's a beautiful thing when players organize themselves. To a certain point, no, we don't "need" these systems in place to organize. But why not have them? It's technology, it's advancement, it makes the dull administrative work easier on us so we can focus on the things that actually make the game and the war challenging and fun. I don't want to sit in sanc inviting members to my platoon manually when I can list three squads and get everyone into them in a matter of seconds.

I believe there is truly a difference between a game mechanic that "dumbs down the game" and a mechanic that makes the game better. Improving the interface and giving us organizational tools, in my opinion, makes the game better because it makes our experience better; it helps us quickly and efficiently find the information we need and carry out the administrative tasks necessary to running a squad/platoon/outfit/unit. Now, something that would "dumb down the game" would be something like auto-aim, or third person camera for everything, or a mine proximity sensor, or something like that. Whether you're in a squad you made yourself or a squad you listed doesn't really affect how the game plays out or who shoots what, that's still up to the outfits to determine through skill and a deeper level of organization than a squad list can provide, and that's the difference between good outfits and great outfits.

I think an outfit should be able to completely prove themselves through what they accomplish playing the game - it's certainly impressive to be able to organize without any of the tools given to us, but it's also highly inefficient and wastes time that could be better spent getting into the fight and enjoying the game.

---

Whoops. So, topic at hand, totally agreed on everything I see here about leadership. I put it on my resume, too...something like "Director of Operations for Online Community" or "Chief Administrator" or something. Video games are a very important method for today's youth (and not youth, for that matter) to experience personal relationships in a less intense and less consequential manner, and that's crucial. It lets one experiment and try things out that they'd be too shy or bashful or not confident enough to do in real life. If it works here on the internet without people laughing you off, it might work in real life to the same effect.

Simply put: a game should be easy to learn, but hard to master. And of course, fun. Strategy is king and planetside had plenty of it.

[Sardus]

I find this humorous,I started playing PS at the beginning(open beta) and managed to hijack every outfit that I joined,I have over 35 years in construction and I was the foreman or the lead man for most of that time due to the fact that I can think on my feet and didn't forget what I was being taught by the older guys I worked with.

dealing with ppl that you have no real physical contact or the ability to fire them is complex to say the least,you have to find like minded ppl that will "buy" into the fantasy of all of you being in combat together.

I do know that ppl do learn skills that are useful in the real world,I have a few guys that started playing with Ht when they were in high school and I rode them all the time about doing their goddamn homework and other crap their parents were on them about and had great results,every one of them either went on to college or have good jobs.

you can teach leadership skills to just about anyone,what really matters is if they have the balls to apply what they have learned.

This is %100 true. You also have to keep in mind that running an online community/guild/outfit requires you to motivate people WITHOUT financial incentives. I.E, I'm not paying you to play in my outfit and you can just leave if outfit management is shitty. If you think about- being a good outfit leader in planetside is a step up from being a middle level manager in some large corporation.

The "buy in" thing is also really important. It can be really difficult to incentivize people to be good leaders. But if you find the right people you can really build one hell of a team.

[EVILPIG]

This is %100 true. You also have to keep in mind that running an online community/guild/outfit requires you to motivate people WITHOUT financial incentives. I.E, I'm not paying you to play in my outfit and you can just leave if outfit management is shitty. If you think about- being a good outfit leader in planetside is a step up from being a middle level manager in some large corporation.

The "buy in" thing is also really important. It can be really difficult to incentivize people to be good leaders. But if you find the right people you can really build one hell of a team.

Lead by example.

[Warborn]

It's worth pointing out that most people who lead outfits and stuff in video games are actually shitty, shitty leaders. So I dunno, maybe in-game leadership is in a way similar to real-life leadership, if only because so many people who are in leadership positions ought not to be.