Outfit Airships or Outfit Ground Bases

[Garem]

I'm curious what the community's position is on these two options. Of course, having both is possible, but it takes time to implement things. The end goal is, however, identical: give a bonus objective/asset to Outfits.

So would you prefer to have Outfit Airships or Outfit Bases more?

See related threads:

Airships
http://www.planetside-universe.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37201

Ground Bases
http://www.planetside-universe.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39355

[Hmr85]

I prefer the airship. I could see outfit bases that could be deployed turn into nothing but a spam fest or fight over who has the best location.

With the Outfit ship. It gives you the possibility to stage for invasions with your outfit. Also gives us something extra to attack when space warfare becomes available later down the line.

[Gerhold]

My vote is for the airships, reminds of the days back on BF2142 and deploying aircraft and drop pods from titans, i think PS2 could use that.

But then again could you not also use actual ships? command and control aircraft carriers circling in the water around the continents. Firing on one another trying to get boarding actions over to the other, then again that would be cool with airships as well wouldn't it?

[DayOne]

I vote for airships, It would be cool to hang out with your outfit and I'd love to have a window and be able to look out over the world.

However, I would also like to see bases or defences that are deployable by outfits that help players on the ground defend a position.

[MrBloodworth]

They would have to add bases as they go, its the same limitation as the original idea on idea labs.

Airship would be more feasible. But you would have to limit how many can be on cont.

[UnknownDT]

I don't think anyone here has the same idea of how these would be implemented and used.

[Hmr85]

A way to regulate it is by making outfits spend a high amount of points to use them. For instance. To spawn a airbase or I guess ground base they could make it 500,000 outfit points. You would see a few every now and then and it would help cut back on the maps being spammed by airships/ground bases.

*It also SOE gives us something to do with all those outfit points we accumulated in PS1 outside of customizing our outfit gear and the such.

[Ragotag]

I think it would have to depend on which way the Dev's would go with regard to the permanence of Outfit deployables. If they can be captured and/or destroyed, then I'm for ground bases. If they are invulnerable, then I'm for the airship (orbital platform) idea.

[Mirror]

Only if this is the airship

http://www.bridge.bris.ac.uk/alive/images/balloon.gif

[Hmr85]

Only if this is the airship

http://www.bridge.bris.ac.uk/alive/images/balloon.gif

No, no, no, I am thinking something like this thing. :lol:

http://i363.photobucket.com/albums/oo77/Hmr85/environmental_concept_1.jpg

[Coreldan]

Airships have the downside of no ability to pull ground vehicles, really. Well, there are ways, but they would feel odd.

[Saintlycow]

In any case, they have to be expensive. Or else you could make a wall from one base to another using outposts.

[Hmr85]

Airships have the downside of no ability to pull ground vehicles, really. Well, there are ways, but they would feel odd.

If they brought back some form of the loadstar I wouldn't see it being a issue.

[Coreldan]

If they brought back some form of the loadstar I wouldn't see it being a issue.

Well yeah, this plan aint due to launch anyways, so it could be some lodestar-like thing will come by that time.

Other idea could be some lodestar-like drop pod for vehicles or big ass parachutes :D

[Alduron]

Nothing would be cooler than a Outfit Airship IMO. Not so sure it will happen, but I want it to.

[EVILPIG]

Your poll is missing "None" and "Both".

[Garem]

There's an option for both- don't vote at all. This is a preference question.

[TheRagingGerbil]

Airships would work well because they wouldn't impact the idea of persistence on the battlefield. With a structure, it would be silly for it to not be available if your outfit logged for the night. An airship could just "retreat" when everyone logs.

[Alduron]

Airships would work well because they wouldn't impact the idea of persistence on the battlefield. With a structure, it would be silly for it to not be available if your outfit logged for the night. An airship could just "retreat" when everyone logs.

That would actually solve one of my concerns about having a outfit owned area. I like the idea.

[VioletZero]

I adamantly believe in using ground bases to build airships.

[Wanderer]

I love the idea of Airships in Planetside 2, something for Outfits to aim for and something amazing to see in the field, on any side.

I see three sizes;
Patrol Frigate, Cruiser and Command (carrier).

All ships should be slower than any aircraft by a fair margin but perhaps with the ability to spec things like emergency thrust on a long cool down or more damage control positions for engineers. All would have relative numbers of mannable hardpoints and weak spots.

Players in smaller aircraft and tanks could spec Ship killer missiles to balance the threat but Bases will have heavy defenses against incoming Airships should the opposing force maintain them. eg I foresee a strike team disbling base defenses so a Command Carrier can come in closer.

I think you would gate each variety at a certain certification and BR, so a Squad leader type could have a Patrol Frigate, but only Commander spec'd people could ever control a Destroyer or Carrier and it would be a sacrifice of other certs to gain that role. Plus the resources to build one should be pretty steep, drawn only from an Outfits pool. Perhaps even requiring more than seems fair, 'special resources'. Of course you can't even have one without an Outfit.

(sorry if this is considered a necro post, didn't want to start a new thread to add just 2c)

[CutterJohn]

Collectively own assets are more trouble than they are worth. The amount of drama that springs up around them is nothing less than legendary.

[Stardouser]

I've been through a lot of info and haven't seen anything about this. Is this actually being considered?

That said; how about outfit heavy gun emplacements that can be bought with resources? Can only be placed in owned territory, would be a defensive structure.

[cellinaire]

I remember that they said they'll eventually introduce more robust weather system and volumetric clouds to PS2!!

Airships/cloudbase all the way! =)
(if done right, of course it can be so awesome)

[Brusi]

:eek:I adamantly believe in using ground bases to build airships.

oh, my... god O_

[Talek Krell]

Airships, although my specific permutation would be spacecraft. Since they're mobile there's no concerns about who gets to build where or whether there's enough space for everyone, and if they're under threat they can simply "retreat to high orbit" without any strain on common sense.

Plus they'd make a hell of a jumping off point for a space expansion. >_>

[Fenrys]

As cool as airships would be, I would have voted for outfit SPACESHIPS given the option.

Let them go into hyperspace or hide in an asteroid belt or something when the outfit isn't actively using them. They're only capturable while deployed. It takes ~5-10 minutes to un-deploy to prevent this "we're going to bed now" mechanic from becoming a fast escape from a losing fight.

I adamantly believe in using ground bases to build airships.

My mind ------> :blowup:

That would so totally :rock:

It reminds me of Civilization's space race and could add strategic objectives to help alleviate the lack of cont locks.

[bigcracker]

Titan mode was amazing fun :D

[cellinaire]

I adamantly believe in using ground bases to build airships.

Touche. :eek:


(hahaha awesome idea anyway)

[Bittermen]

Why can't I haz both?

[ShockNC]

An Airship needs to be destructible in PS2. otherwise, it's just a mobile base that can stage an invasion and fly off without any risk.

[cellinaire]

Why can't I haz both?

Would love to have both.


Anyway, obligatory SC joke here comes...

"Smedley : Aye, then. We will make that nice-looking outfit desert base an SC exclusive, and the price will be around....umm... 2000 Station Cash. Neat, huh?"

"??? : Awesome, boss. Just don't forget to make several additional layouts based on that base for Marketplace, though."

" All in unison : /evil grin "

[Shogun]

i am for both...

outfits will need to get their airship first, and this thing isn´t only a flying spawnpoint, it´s a factory and if fed with enough ressources it can drop baseparts to the ground.

but i am not sure how to balance and secure these things.
i would say the outfit leader gets full control over the titan. he can spawn it, he says where it will go, and what it will drop. and he can order it to go back to orbit where it is safe. because it would suck, if big outfits go hunting for titans at night when their owners are all offline.
the outfit leader can also bind the titan controls to another outfit rank, so some other officers can command the thing while the leader is offline.

this way outfits would not lose their airship while they are offline, but the bases they dropped to the ground are up to conquest or destruction at all times

[Figment]

I miss the option "neither".

[cellinaire]

I miss the option "neither".

So, apparently you rather want a palatial residence, don't you? ;)


(or Outfit.....cave. Oh, snap. Should've thought that many PS veterans don't like the word 'cave'.. hehe)


What about a stalactite cave, then? :D

[DaddyTickles]

Given the sheer number of ego outfits that are likely to spawn in the first year or two, how large or small should these airships be? Particularly in view of the size limitation of the sky that hangs over the 8kmx8km maps?

I mean are we talking about a wicker basket or a floating palace?

[Figment]

So, apparently you rather want a palatial residence, don't you? ;)


(or Outfit.....cave. Oh, snap. Should've thought that many PS veterans don't like the word 'cave'.. hehe)


What about a stalactite cave, then? :D

Just none would do.

[Shogun]

Given the sheer number of ego outfits that are likely to spawn in the first year or two, how large or small should these airships be? Particularly in view of the size limitation of the sky that hangs over the 8kmx8km maps?

I mean are we talking about a wicker basket or a floating palace?

we are talking about palaces but we are also talking about very large amounts of ressources or other limiting factors like a minimum membercount for outfits to spawn such a thing.
if every lonewulf and his dog could make an ego outfit and spawn such a thing it would be stupid.

but if such a thing needs ressources one player would have to pilestock for over a year, only larger outfits with enough res-donating members will be able to spawn those things.

maybe make it a cooperation, so more than one outfit can use the thing.

also it would be possible to limit the conts to only support one or two of those things per faction. with a launch queue or some sort of timetable booking for outfit-events.

[Skitrel]

There's an option for both- don't vote at all. This is a preference question.

No there isn't and saying this is ridiculous.

If this were the case you might as well say, well there are 13,070 forum members, clearly 13,000 people want both.

Polls need to include ALL options people will want, this includes both and none. Otherwise it appears completely biased and misleads people into incorrect groupthink with incomplete information - that either of these are the actual popular opinion, or not.

Without complete data on all options, polls are utterly useless.

[OptimusPrime]

I concur...... Skitrel

[Bazilx]

I personally want airships to just be instances orbital air-ships rather than actual things that move in the in-game world.

I just want to have an instanced place to hang out with my outfit where I can look out the window and see the planet below, maybe have rooms for certain purposes and a launch-bay where you can either drop-pod down to the planet or similar things.

[Knocky]

I personally want airships to just be instances orbital air-ships rather than actual things that move in the in-game world.

I just want to have an instanced place to hang out with my outfit where I can look out the window and see the planet below, maybe have rooms for certain purposes and a launch-bay where you can either drop-pod down to the planet or similar things.

You know, now that I think about it this would be a good place to recall all Outfit members for a fast redeployment.

[Purple]

i dont think we should have these at all. if you want a base to hang out with your outfit then go take one on the map. it would make you people who just want to take up map space sitting around doing nothing with your outfit usefull.

[nomotog]

Airships(spaceships) are clearly the better idea. It's the mobility afforded by them. Your not locked to any one place on the map, you can retreat into space if you want to. (You know when you just want to chat or move your couch.) Then you can have the best of both by letting airships land and bunker down where it basically becomes a base.

[Sledgecrushr]

Airships all the way. I dont really see why you cant land the airship and pick up ground vehicles kind of like a galaxy does. Also I think it would be total awesomesauce if once it is landed it could be used as a sort of forward base.

[MacTruckuLes]

I think BigCracker has the right idea, the titans from BF2142 would be perfect for a mobile air base, it has a cc that should be capturable, artillery for ranged attacks and a flight deck to land and repair air vechicals. you could even go so far and to have areas for engineers to repair the shields, etc. however I think this should be spawned only at certain bases and have a timer on how long you have to hold the base before its built, and only allow so many per cont. this could give us an long term objective to fight over, and could even allow for expanding rewards, say next spawn could be a super heavy land carrier, a sort of mobile tank producing base etc.

Now as for outfit bases, in the gdc video Higby mentions outpost that can be capturable, they serve no purpose other than another spawn location and resources, which we know of. These can and should be easily converted to Outfit owned bases that can be upgradable. This way we have a set number of spots that can be taken over and fought for on each cont.

[Skitrel]

As I mentioned before, there's a lack of options here.

Clearly the best option is BOTH, airships that can fly in space, and land and become ground bases for centralised assaults and the like, obviously with some sort of benefit that applies to landing them with retreating back into the air, or retreating entirely to space being options.

[Figment]

Utter waste of dev resources and generally worse idea than BFRs ever were... Could explain exactly why, but done that what, 20 times before on PS development forums... They just do not fit in. :/

[Stardouser]

airships! I'm not sure if you guys are intending Outfit airships to be glorified guild halls or actually fly around and fight, but in my vision they would fight, be a couple times bigger than a BF2142 Titan, can pass through warpgates, carry several anti fighter turrets and a couple of ion cannons that are used to strip shields off enemy tanks and bases.

Maybe they should have a bombardment cannon that can physically damage on the ground too, I'm not sure.

Also, they could have a small bay that will spawn one scout fighter at a time and one light transport. Unless everyone has parachutes, then no one needs the transport I guess.

[Goku]

Isn't there going to be towers that you can actually drop in to support your effort? I think they can move too. There is your ground fortress right there.

[Brusi]

you can have the best of both by letting airships land and bunker down where it basically becomes a base.

like this, but in reverse...

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20081104001911/starcraft/images/thumb/7/7b/Command_Center_SC2_Rend1.jpg/574px-Command_Center_SC2_Rend1.jpg

Oh wait, they already have that... It's called a Galaxy

[VioletZero]

I'd rather have a more battleship and/or carrier style airship. But that's me.

[cellinaire]

Utter waste of dev resources and generally worse idea than BFRs ever were... Could explain exactly why, but done that what, 20 times before on PS development forums... They just do not fit in. :/

Worse idea than BFR....? Whoa.. curious about the reasoning behind that. Mind if I ask you to enlighten me, then? ;)

[Figment]

Worse idea than BFR....? Whoa.. curious about the reasoning behind that. Mind if I ask you to enlighten me, then? ;)

I'll be short and generalistic about this.

Massive airships that spawn troops, in some variants have massive defensive firepower (which with a lot of hitpoints becomes offensive firepower), aircraft, in some variants spawn ground or air vehicles, take eons to take out, every outfit could have one (even if limitedly), in some variants they can "retreat to safety into space or off continent or simply into a warpgate bubble" (making any bullet fired at it wasted and unsatisfactory), you can't easily reach it with any type of units, meaning it utterly dominates the battlefield while there. Especially if you can personally and freely control these things, meaning you could use it as the ultimate base camping tool after taking out the local AA. Plus, how are you going to balance these things in low pop situations?

It's just going to cause frustrating gameplay for those people without one.

While if it's just there to group up in safety in orbit or whatever, it's simply a pointless replacement of sanctuary. Which is why orbital stations were scrapped for PS1, whereas sancs were scrapped deliberately for PS2, so why would you do that?


Basically, there is no point to them, whatsoever. Stopped caring about the specific variants people have posted, I've never seen one that wasn't in some fashion going to utterly dominate the battlefield for no other reason than supposedly having "invested deeply" into it.

[MacTruckuLes]

Stardouser and i spoke of this idea at some length the other night, i feel as though airships should be used as a display of power. they should be hard to obtain, should be a high risk/reward vech. they are like are current militarys aircraft carriers or battleships, there effective, they show a strength of martial arms, however there loss is a detremental blow.

now i see them as a long term goal for outfits and could come in multiple flavors, ie. carrier, siege weapon, command base etc. this could give outfits a long term goal to work towards.

now as for landing, i think that should be out of the question, i feel to make them non OP is to allow them to only fly at a certain altitude, cant land, and would be capturable/ destroyable.

this could even give a stronger purpose to the large base cannons they have shown in a few videos and gives us a type of end-game reward that many have been looking for.

[MacTruckuLes]

I'll be short and generalistic about this.

Massive airships that spawn troops, in some variants have massive defensive firepower (which with a lot of hitpoints becomes offensive firepower), aircraft, in some variants spawn ground or air vehicles, take eons to take out, every outfit could have one (even if limitedly), in some variants they can "retreat to safety into space or off continent or simply into a warpgate bubble" (making any bullet fired at it wasted and unsatisfactory), you can't easily reach it with any type of units, meaning it utterly dominates the battlefield while there. Especially if you can personally and freely control these things, meaning you could use it as the ultimate base camping tool after taking out the local AA. Plus, how are you going to balance these things in low pop situations?

It's just going to cause frustrating gameplay for those people without one.

While if it's just there to group up in safety in orbit or whatever, it's simply a pointless replacement of sanctuary. Which is why orbital stations were scrapped for PS1, whereas sancs were scrapped deliberately for PS2, so why would you do that?


Basically, there is no point to them, whatsoever. Stopped caring about the specific variants people have posted, I've never seen one that wasn't in some fashion going to utterly dominate the battlefield for no other reason than supposedly having "invested deeply" into it.

i get what your saying Figment and i agree with how you feel they can be overpowered. however this can be fixed easily, they should be slow to move, very,very few in number and should be attackable from both ground and air. it should not be so overpowered that it cant be destroyed easily, however it should be able to take quite a few hits. think of it as a super sized galaxy. it should also be one of those things that when you see it everyone goes for it, its a type of terror weapon if you will, all it is, is a mobile command carrier and i feel it easily fits the theme of the game and sevral niches that were missing from PS1.

[Figment]

I thought OP was talking about something akin to an Outfit lounge area where they can group up for ops or in general just BS'ing? You guys talking about a aerial empire mobile spawn point thing now?

Entirely depends on the variety. There's no concensus throughout this thread if it's outfit housing or more.

There are a lot of people here clearly thinking about them having direct influence on combat, even taking part in combat. Not just as staging areas off-map.


@MacTrukules: PlanetSide does not "do" limited numbers per map. The whole core concept is sandbox freedom: bring what you want. Even more so in PS2 (too much IMO).

[Stardouser]

We have these things called Galaxy's right? Leave it at that. We need no BFR in space, as you say. I don't mind the instanced aerial outfit base for fraternization, no need to go beyond that.

This isn't about space, these would be airships hovering just over the battlefield. I think having static airships as simple guild housing might be a waste. If they could be attacked in some fashion that might be cool still, but no, I think outfits should be able to buy heavy airships. They should be destructible, and hackable too, and cost so much that you'd need a large size outfit just to be able to buy one as often as once per week. I would have them be the following:

1. Armed with ion bombardment cannons that do not do physical damage to vehicles/infantry, but DO take down shields, of both bases and vehicles.
2. Act as a spawn point for outfit-only infantry but can allow non-outfit personnel to get on.
3. Armed with anti-fighter turrets.
4. Can spawn 1 scout fighter, and 1 light transport for about 4-5 people in its docking bay.

If the only heavy weapon is the ion cannon, that's not a "BFR". But the morale value of wielding these things, and even moreso, blasting them out of the sky, would be immense. They'd be slow, and when their shields are down, enemy light transports can land in their docking bays and discharge infantry to assault and hack it.

[MacTruckuLes]

@Stardouser, the spawning of aircraft at it to me makes it seem a bit overpowered, being able to reload and repair at landing pads on the craft would be enough.

@Fidget, what about pop-lock, or being able to place only so many turrets in an area, this are both limits on numbers. too many of these could and i think would probable unbalance the game, that's whys there is a limit on them.

there is a lot of things that could be done with larger aircraft such as these. basicly i see them as expensive siege breakers, something like this has to have a big risk/reward to it. think of it in the concept of it being like a siege tower, it can break through the wall (base shields for that matter), however it can only do this if it gets there. it should be fully destructable, and move at a slow pace.

now do i feel it should be a outfit base in of its self, no it should be an outfit reward, basicly a command center for the outfit, where the outfit can be lead from, and should be quite expensive for the outfit to control.

my feeling on outfit bases, they should be the outpost we see dotting the lanscape in the GDC videos, we should be able to claim an outpost as an outfit base, make them upgradable at the expense of the outfits reasorces, and leave them cappable, meaning another outfit from a different outfit can take over the base. now this gives us a persisent long term goal. its something about ownership that keeps us fighting for what we take, and can make the front lines more meaningful.

[Stardouser]

@Stardouser, the spawning of aircraft at it to me makes it seem a bit overpowered, being able to reload and repair at landing pads on the craft would be enough.

@Fidget, what about pop-lock, or being able to place only so many turrets in an area, this are both limits on numbers. too many of these could and i think would probable unbalance the game, that's whys there is a limit on them.

there is a lot of things that could be done with larger aircraft such as these. basicly i see them as expensive siege breakers, something like this has to have a big risk/reward to it. think of it in the concept of it being like a siege tower, it can break through the wall (base shields for that matter), however it can only do this if it gets there. it should be fully destructable, and move at a slow pace.

now do i feel it should be a outfit base in of its self, no it should be an outfit reward, basicly a command center for the outfit, where the outfit can be lead from, and should be quite expensive for the outfit to control.

my feeling on outfit bases, they should be the outpost we see dotting the lanscape in the GDC videos, we should be able to claim an outpost as an outfit base, make them upgradable at the expense of the outfits reasorces, and leave them cappable, meaning another outfit from a different outfit can take over the base. now this gives us a persisent long term goal. its something about ownership that keeps us fighting for what we take, and can make the front lines more meaningful.

Other than being able to fire an anti-shield ion cannon it has no offensive weaponry, I don't think being able to have 1 light scout fighter and 1 unarmed transport spawned at a time is overpowered. Remove the scout fighter then. 1 unarmed transport. And the only reason I say that is because not everyone's going to have parachutes, I assume.

[MacTruckuLes]

just give it a drop pod ability, like a galaxy, just on a larger scale.

there's a lot of things they could do with both outpost and airships, and they don't even have to be airships, they could even try mobile ground command vechs as well. something like this could be awesome as well.
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120324055240/warhammer40k/images/thumb/5/55/Leviathan01.jpg/830px-Leviathan01.jpg (http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Leviathan?image=Leviathan01-jpg)

[Figment]

See what I mean WildVS? :P

[Biscuit]

voted airship:

only if they cost a anal ton of resources to build.

gives importance to not throw them in the frontlines zerg fashion into every confrontation.

[Whalenator]

Lots of mountainous, varying terrain on Indar will make that ground command vehicle a sitting, immobile duck.

Although I'm more for outfit space stations, outfit airships work fine too. Just make them vulnerable to attack, visible on the map and needing to be defended.

[MacTruckuLes]

[quote=Figment;665735]See what I mean WildVS? :P

yea man we get you dont like the idea, how about you post something in this discussion that YOU would rather see.


Lots of mountainous, varying terrain on Indar will make that ground command vehicle a sitting, immobile duck.

Although I'm more for outfit space stations, outfit airships work fine too. Just make them vulnerable to attack, visible on the map and needing to be defended.

yea its just an alternative idea to the airship, some outfits may not want an airship, but still equvilent in use.

[Figment]

yea man we get you dont like the idea, how about you post something in this discussion that YOU would rather see.

I did: None of these. What more is there to say? I'm simply strongly opposed to this idea, nothing more, nothing less.


EDIT: I've stated what I want in other threads, I want variety in small unit platforms that do not upset balance in neither big (more than 500 players) or small groups (less than 10 players). Meaning 1-3 player units, four tops. Currently (due to lack of cert requirement setup) honestly don't really see the point of transports unless each normal unit is already extremely expensive. Why shove one Sund full of 12 MAXes if you can bring 4 Sunds with 2 MAXes each.

[Stardouser]

voted airship:

only if they cost a anal ton of resources to build.

gives importance to not throw them in the frontlines zerg fashion into every confrontation.

What constitutes an anal ton of resources? Let's say we're talking about a 50 man outfit...should the resources cost so much that they can only build one once per week? Month? or what?

Why yes I do! The reason I drew the correlation to the BFR is this type of monolithic floating gargantuan target would command way to much focus from the core gameplay, just as the old biffers did. Man the devs have way too many other issues to work through for the forseeable future to consider something like this but it is OK for a "pie in the sky" (literally!) imagination exercise.

I thought BFRs were too powerful offensively? If done right, an airship would not be like that but wouldn't be a pushover either.

As far as "core gameplay", that can change you know. It doesn't have to be on the ground at all times. I take this to mean that if they ever came out with a space combat expansion you would want to reject that too since it's not ground combat.

[Destroyeron]

Airship definitely; even if its not really a "vehicle" and just an area where the outfit can group up, get ready and maybe drop into combat that sounds awesome to me.

[cellinaire]

Hmm, currently the easiest idea would be the implementation of 'instanced' space it seems. Or I maybe wrong on this one

[Figment]

As far as "core gameplay", that can change you know. It doesn't have to be on the ground at all times. I take this to mean that if they ever came out with a space combat expansion you would want to reject that too since it's not ground combat.

That's great and all, but not PlanetSide.

That's PlanetSide EVE.

Could be fun as a seperate game, but has no additional value for PS2 itself.

[Stardouser]

That's great and all, but not PlanetSide.

That's PlanetSide EVE.

Could be fun as a seperate game, but has no additional value for PS2 itself.

So say you now, but who knows, they might be able to come up with a way to directly tie them in together. ie, each continent is actually a planet(with some multi continent planets) and you have to assault it through space first.

And saying that assaulting a planet through space first isn't Planetside isn't going to help. Once the technology allows us to do it that way, it is a logical and beneficial addition. Obviously it would be a whale of thing to design.

Also, calling it EVE just because it's in space is like calling ALL shooters that ever existed or will exist CoD, just because they all involve players running around shooting at each other in first person view. Space game does not automatically equal EVE.

[Figment]

Actually it would be very non-PlanetSide philosophy to do that. Given you are from BF3 and can't be expected to know that history, I'll try to explain it briefly.


First off, PS1 went from one single planet with continents (Auraxis) to multiple planets (one planet per continent). I don't think the majority really liked the idea also known as "The Bending", because it made the seperate fights really seperate and distant (it didn't help that the update itself wasn't brilliantly executed either, we lost a map and got four mini maps in return, which didn't quite work the way they were intended). It reduced the idea of a major global war being fought on multiple fronts. It is one of the reasons people want a return to the lattice instead of the on-cont sanctuaries, because they don't want the feel of "instance rooms". They want persistence: one huge battlefield.

Furthermore PlanetSide does not include space travel combat as it is a first person shooter and strategy game. It's not a space flight sim. Besides the whole point is they are trapped behind a wormhole, stuck on the surface of a planet, used the ships parts to build up colonies and move from continent to continent using the Geowarps (which will be making a return again). This travel is instantaneous and allows people to move in and out of a battlefield non-stop.

Forcing some sort of "approach battle" doesn't WORK in PlanetSide. If there's no opposition, people would just have their down time increased severely during travel from one planet to the next. All PS2 changes have been aimed at taking away down time (not all I agree with), but this sort of travel time simply adds long periods of nothing. Another point is that free traffic allows outfits and others to move into an area unnoticed, setup camp and only then start assaulting so they are ready to take on an onslaught of resecuring troops.

Approach battles would put a definite end to that and if they can just pass through it would just waste valuable play time.

It would also mean that while an approach battle is being waged, the defending empire would go and set up defenses (farms) at all the high priority targets since they'd know which continent would be coming under attack and that'd be an unfair tactical advantage. Already people complained that their more predictable actions (too many players were predictable on target selection) got thwarted by enemy groups moving into places that were likely next candidates for specific, predictable enemies. This sort of "spies" complaint would only increase if you were forced to do interstellar travel.



On an additional note, I'm naming EVE, because they do that with Dust 514... Otherwise I'd have named what, Wing Commander, Star Trek Online, etc.

[ArcIyte]

Can we keep the giant powerful machines out of the game for at least a year or two this time please?

[MacTruckuLes]

iam with you on this point figment, space battles have no place in planetside, period.

now for airships, i can see them, there just the next technological jump from aircraft carriers. there is nothing wrong with having larger vechs in game, everyone loved the lodestar and all airships would be would be giant lodestars, for large assaults. have a few minium weapons on them nothing overpowered.

as for bases them selves they shouldnt be instanced, make us fight over the land, allow us to claim bases as outfit controlled areas and fight for them.

[Garem]

Can we keep the giant powerful machines out of the game for at least a year or two this time please?

Why?

Like the previous post, the concept for airships so far is more like Lodestars by the general theme of player's ideas and input so far. Nobody wants them to be abundant, but when they're present in a fight that presence should be known. And when two Airships meet and clash, you'll have some major changes to the battlefield and epic stories of victory or defeat.

I think that the Titans from BF2142 best epitomize the concept behind the kind of Airship we want. Insanely slow, easily crippled by dedicated aerial fighters, and a new but imposing objective for ground forces to destroy. They provide a massive support base for large scale operations, but they are primarily a source of support, not a direct assault machine.

Let's be honest- Titans made BF2142 a great game, and may have been the only thing to make it so.

Most importantly, losing them should be extraordinarily expensive and a drastic setback to an Outfit's operation. To be expensive (and therefore meaningful), they must require the input of several dozen individuals to make and/or operate.

This is what we want- not one-man wrecking machines like BFRs were that require grinding up components.

[Stardouser]

I'm surprised no one bumped this after Higby mentioned outfit motherships at Pax East? Or was I hearing wrong?

[FortunadoAE]

I considered bumping an even older topic!

The idea in that one was space stations. Airships tend to segment the battle into the ground battle and the air battle. Remember caves? Airships are caves in the air.

Space stations could offer all the benefits without the drawbacks:

-A nice quiet place for outfits to meet up and plan. A mini-sanctuary, away from the other empires and away from trolls. If the station has a HART, it's a way for them to meet up and drop together.
-Beautiful view of the planet out the window
-No fighting over it-- only ownership, which could be determined in different ways (x number per empire per server, or maybe just every outfit gets one after xx members)
-Instance them and it's very low intensity resource-wise. The stations wouldn't even need an exterior model.
-Still tactical: Decide where to orbit. Make it take 12 hours to move. Link any number of benefits to it: orbitals, vehicle access, HART, etc.
-Rooms on it to serve any number of outfit-based functions.

Who wants to fight over land-based outfit base ownership, anyway? It gives outfits incentives that might not jive with their empire's incentives. And airships are an even worse idea than those.

[ringring]

I'm not sure why I would want either!

If there is delevoper time available I'd want another continent.

[atomos]

I think outfit owned motherships with the capabity of a mini orbital strike would be great, they would be good at taking out stationary defensive targets like a deployed galaxy.

[Marinealver]

I would like Starships instead. Blast the ground from orbit, dodge anti-orbital fire. Invade a planet drop-pod on the ground and capture bases. I think they are going to add some expanded resource mechanics than the origional PS. I would see like the stationary ground bases generate outfit resources while the mobile Air/Sea/Orbital bases spend resource.

[Stardouser]

If we get these one thing I really hope is that they have names, like naval ships would, and the names can be seen somehow by enemies and friendlies alike. Whoever purchases it on behalf of the outfit would pick the name, although it could be changed afterward. In keeping with our realistic traditions they would be preceded by TRS, NCS, VSS, just like US ships are USS, British are HMS, etc.

TRS Hammer of Auraxis, for example.

[Snipefrag]

I think airships are a much more interesting idea, they will help to make fights more dynamic. Allowing outfits to make a big difference to the ground fight by using the additional power an outfit ship brings to push the front line.

[Kran De Loy]

While I love airships and the Titans in 2142 the idea doesn't mesh to me when you're counting that any 3 or more titans can meet up at any one time.

Sure, Titan style airbases would also cause smaller outfits to band together in more of an Alliance type thing, but the more I try to wrap my head around Titans fighting off other titans or/and clouds of comparatively gnat sized fighter and bomber ships in a game where any continent could have up to 2000 people, the more I see these things as being gigantic resource sinks. I mean far larger then just the Airbase by itself costing. This would encourage the idea of the more people in an outfit the more spread out those costs become until you've pretty much attained Zergdom from all the randoms you likely have with you help pad out your costs to gains ratio.

And that if someone flies in their Airbase, wherever that flying fortress happens to be becomes the new biggest hotspot for the continent as the Glory Prize of being the ones to take it down would far outweigh any sane person's idea of what they would be willing to lose in the attempt.

Scaling down the idea would be too much because anything bigger then a Gal is too big to land almost anywhere (and it would have to be at least 3 or 4 times the size of a Gal to justify itself imo). Also scaling it down would only mean that people are less likely to be willing lose massive amount of resources protecting it. Scaling it down would also make them lose a lot of the general appeal of having a giant outfit owned air base.

[Baneblade]

As the progenitor of the air cruisers idea, airships of course.

[BuzzCutPsycho]

Six pages is a lot for two "features" that will never be in the game.

[LordReaver]

Everybody wants some sort of outfit base, or airship or whatever. PlanetSide doesn't have room for outfits to have their own bases. Let alone the sheer pointlessness of it. Airships being worth a damn, basically mean overpowered. Otherwise you will just see tons of them floating around. It would really just be like Galaxy Gunships with more power, but this isn't EVE people...

[Hmr85]

Everybody wants some sort of outfit base, or airship or whatever. PlanetSide doesn't have room for outfits to have their own bases. Let alone the sheer pointlessness of it. Airships being worth a damn, basically mean overpowered. Otherwise you will just see tons of them floating around. It would really just be like Galaxy Gunships with more power, but this isn't EVE people...

People are not asking for a EVE like ships. They are asking for something they can earn for the outfit but takes a ungodly amount of time to get. Think about if it cost you over 1 million outfit points just to get a base bare model of a airship. Another 500k in outfit resources for weapons and terminals. On top of that another 500k in resources just to deploy it.

How many outfits back in PS 1 did you know even had over a million outfit points? Very few did from what I have seen. Even if they went with something similar to what I listed above. I doubt you would hardly ever see them on the battlefield except for once in a blue moon. I would expect them to be extremely tough to take down.

I would also like to see these as one of the only means of accessing a OS strike.

Ofc, this is assuming they even put any of this in the game that is.

[Kran De Loy]

Cost alone isn't any kind of deterrent for people willing to mindlessly follow a single outfit in order to get access to one of the airships. And it's not a matter of Zerg versus smaller higher skilled groups. A smaller highly skilled group will eventually reach a ceiling in how much resources they can earn in a given period of time while Zerg outfits just add more people and it hastens the pace at which they can push out Airbase after Airbase.

And don't bother bringing multiple outfits working together in an alliance. Someone has to own the ship. And it still isn't a valid attempt to refute a zerg from gathering. An alliance would just toss all the zerglings into a single outfit and the people that actually get to own the thing in another. Also it would open up a whole new can of worms that would derail this thread so shouldn't really get into it too much; trading resources.

Anyway, If SOE put max number of of airships bases that can be active on any one server at any time it would solve a number of the problems about the glory of having one without everyone getting their own special snowflake to freeze the living crap out of each continent server whenever the storm rolls through. But then how do they decide who gets them? First come first serve? Have a limited number of them and instead of blowing it up you capture it? How is that any different then having land bases?

Really the way I see it is that people want two different things in one package. Should break it up, imo. 1) Giant Airship Carrier Bases. 2) Outfit owned customizable bases.

1) Is the sweet package that everyone likes but it just wont work with the scale that PS2 is shooting for and the very fact that they want PS2 to be an FPS first and foremost and an MMO as a very closely followed second.

2) Is just as easily achieved by making current bases in the game customizable by the outfit that is currently operating it. Give the outfit a 5-10% increase in resources gathered from that base and the ability to customize anything from the turrets to the strength of it's walls and you have a vastly more intrenched interest for players to capture and hold a base instead of just resources.

As for the 'only show up every now and then' idea it doesn't hold because if they didn't want the ships to show up they'd be super weak and easy to destroy and/or have super weak weaponry. If neither of these are the case then those ships will be all over the place and excessively overpowered. Any small time outfit would be forced to give way to these behemoths merely because it is there and they can't compete not because they don't want to.

As for an orbital space station, that would utterly toss a number of their arguments out the window about why they put in Footholds to each continent, to lessen the number of loading screens and provide every faction a place to gather and push out from at any given time no matter how pushed back they become.

Edit: Don't get me wrong, I love the idea of airships and I would honestly love to see them in the game, but the idea of them being these massive outfit orientated bases just does not fly with me. They really should be kept to oversized glorified Lodestars with advanced radar and an infantry spawning platform. Maybe make it so what they hold isn't the vehicle or whatever, but a limited amount of resources that the pilot crew (yes crew, this isn't a 1 man ship) would select that would be used to spawn a limited selection of vehicles in the field.

[Stardouser]

Cost alone isn't any kind of deterrent for people willing to mindlessly follow a single outfit in order to get access to one of the airships.

Let's look at it this way. They could make the cost of airships so great that even if the entire active population of a server banded together, they still wouldn't be able to buy too many. And since the entire population will NOT work together, that's even less. And, these things will get hunted down and killed, too.

I think the real problem here is that no one wants anything that requires teamwork to kill. If it can't be killed by one tank or one aircraft, people are against it. But that outlook on things is going to stall innovation greatly.

[Hmr85]

Look, my original Idea for Outfit bases was for them to be almost like a sanctuary for outfits only. It would allow them a place to plan/stage massive assaults. It would be a place for them to also hang out at in down time. I never was really in favor of them becoming front line battleships or anything like that on the playing field.

Originally Posted by Kran De Loy
Cost alone isn't any kind of deterrent for people willing to mindlessly follow a single outfit in order to get access to one of the airships.

With that said, I really think your overestimating the amount of them that would be available. Over 8 years of pS1 we have only had maybe a handful of outfits that have reached over 10 million outfit points. That's over 8 years now. So if you take that into consideration you would likely see one every other month or less due to the fact a lot of outfits alone never ever reached a million outfit points. Then they would have to weigh the costs of actually getting one. A lot of them probably wouldn't do it. Your zerg outfits will only pull what 11 over the course of 8 years. That's not a lot of them if you really think about it.

[Kran De Loy]

...

I just have nothing to say to you're arguments, they're just that ill thought out.

I'll try anyway. Airship bases, highly costly, outfit only, used for whatever they want to use it for: Sure, fine. Allow these things to go into the battle, shoot and be shot at: No. Just, no.

[Baneblade]

http://www.planetside-universe.com/showthread.php?t=36016

[Hmr85]

...

I just have nothing to say to you're arguments, they're just that ill thought out.

I'll try anyway. Airship bases, highly costly, outfit only, used for whatever they want to use it for: Sure, fine. Allow these things to go into the battle, shoot and be shot at: No. Just, no.

Who exactly are you talking to....? It would be nice if you would quote who you are responding to and if it is me your response/ argument is weak. If you limited the OS's "Orbital Strikes for the uninformed" in game to these "Airships" outfits would think twice about fielding them in battle. I don't know many that would want to go another 7 to 8 months before they could OS targets again so look at it as more of a trade off. If these where fielded in battle it would add a extra objective that could be taken out along with another spawn point for the opposing team. I see nothing wrong with that if it is done right.

[LordReaver]

If it's so expensive to buy, and there will be so few of them, then it's not really worth adding at all. Grinding doesn't belong in PlanetSide. Again, we come back to how would it even change gameplay in any balanced and also meaningful way?

The only real way to do an outfit vehicle, is if it's really only like one step better than other vehicles. Like GGs are now. They are beefy powerhouses, but they can be killed reasonably.

[Hmr85]

If it's so expensive to buy, and there will be so few of them, then it's not really worth adding at all. Grinding doesn't belong in PlanetSide. Again, we come back to how would it even change gameplay in any balanced and also meaningful way?

The only real way to do an outfit vehicle, is if it's really only like one step better than other vehicles. Like GGs are now. They are beefy powerhouses, but they can be killed reasonably.

I'm not looking at it as grinding. I guess I see it as more of a long term goal for outfits. Eventually your gonna run out of upgrades you can do inside your outfit. I guess you could change the outfit armor design every week but ./shrug. Outside of that you'll have nothing else to spend your outfits points on similar to PS1. This will give outfits something to look forward to. Even if these airships never see the light of day on the battlefield. I am all for them becoming mini sanctuary's for outfits. Places for outfits to stage assaults/regroup as they get ready to bring death to another continent. I also think with this comes the ability for OS's. That would help cut down on the amount of them we see on the Battlefield.

[Garem]

For the record, HMR85, although you're the only one voicing the opinion it clearly has the weight of the poll above behind it.

I, and many others, agree with you. Airships of the sort found in BF 2142 are more appealing than customizable ground bases by a 2-to-1 voting margin.

Concerns about cost, (over-)power, scale, and utility are all speculation- nothing more. We can't argue about something being broken before it's even made, despite the efforts- and I don't mean to disrespect those opinions, but they are still speculation and opinion, nothing more.

Lastly, I firmly believe that the Development Team can/will implement the idea properly; you can't logically disagree with the aspects of this concept and maintain that faith in the Team to do so. You must agree with the whole or part and then believe in the Dev Team or not, or disagree with the whole and then no degree of trust is required.


TL;DR, haters gonna hate, but they ain't no sense if they jus' gonn' groan on an' ain't gonna give no cred to the thugs 4 lyfe at SOE. Let'em boys do right, dawg.

[LordReaver]

We can't argue about something being broken before it's even made, despite the efforts- and I don't mean to disrespect those opinions, but they are still speculation and opinion, nothing more.

You can if it's flawed on a philosophical level.

[ShockNC]

People are not asking for a EVE like ships. They are asking for something they can earn for the outfit but takes a ungodly amount of time to get. Think about if it cost you over 1 million outfit points just to get a base bare model of a airship. Another 500k in outfit resources for weapons and terminals. On top of that another 500k in resources just to deploy it.

How many outfits back in PS 1 did you know even had over a million outfit points? Very few did from what I have seen. Even if they went with something similar to what I listed above. I doubt you would hardly ever see them on the battlefield except for once in a blue moon. I would expect them to be extremely tough to take down.


Several actually. The problem with your line of thought is that it's EXACTLY the same line of thought that CCP used when dealing with the Titan ships in EVE. the result was battles stop being about tactics and started to become who can bring the most Titans.

If the PS2 devs are paying attention, they need to make a massive drawback to the thing other than cost otherwise this thing will wreak planetside 2 worse than the the Biffers and the bending combined in Planetside.

[Cline]

Along with Outfit points or standings. Just limit 1 outfit airship per outfit. In conjunction with outfit points would prevent a 1 person outfit from getting one.

(Unless he plays every day, all day. In which case he or she earned it!!).

But if you did that, better make sure it's damned good. However if they are that expensive, they most likely won't be put into a head to head battle. I play Eve, and I'll put in my two bits about Titans. Titans are the biggest, most powerful ships out there. But you never put them in the fight unless you have superiority. Losing one hurts! Same applies here, expensive ship, very powerful, but if you lose it... ouch! Almost all the big fights out there right now are sans Titans/Motherships because they are very protected. Caveat to that though. If you do have superiority, the Titans come out of the woodwork!

[Baneblade]

Part of my Outfit Air Cruiser idea was to record battle reports for them. When the NCS War Machine destroys the enemy, the game will announce it in a broadcast.

To avoid 'carrier' playstyles of always preferring indirect combat, I designed them to only have basic flight hangars and put more focus in direct fire weapons.

They were also limited to one per outfit, cost a million or more outfit points and was persistant within the world, meaning once spawned it never despawns. So maintaining one of these in PlanetSide would require a ton of dedication from an outfit that could run it 24/7. They also cost outfit points daily to operate, the only way to reduce that cost is to take it into battle and win.

[Graywolves]

I just love the idea of something along the lines of a Guild Hall for Outfits. I think many people underestimate the sense of having your own place to go away from other people to organize, plan, or even just chill.


We could go on forever about the pro's and con's of outfit bases going into continents. I think it could be an interesting way to change things up occasionally.

[Stardouser]

I just love the idea of something along the lines of a Guild Hall for Outfits. I think many people underestimate the sense of having your own place to go away from other people to organize, plan, or even just chill.


We could go on forever about the pro's and con's of outfit bases going into continents. I think it could be an interesting way to change things up occasionally.

combat airshaps or attackable guild bases wouldn't function the same way as guild halls, since they would be dead most of the time, lol.

The question of a guild hall is a separate one. I always thought maybe they could have non-combat cruise ships out in the ocean that function like guild halls...

[Metalsheep]

The problem with something like Airships that i see is, that no matter how much you make them cost. Someone will find a way to crank out tons of them. They did that in Eve when they added those SuperCarrier ships. (I dont actually play Eve, so correct me if im wrong.) The designers only expected a few to ever be made because of their astronomical cost. But players figured out a way to churn out tons of them. So you'd have to impose a hard limit on how many can be present.

And even then. As soon as an outfit builds a Warship, every enemy on the continent is going to Focus-Fire it down immediately. The biggest threat will be attacked first, so the outfit loses that thing they worked so hard to build. In order to make them survive that kind of firepower, you have to make them inherently overpowered. Then they become almost impossible to kill, and no fun. Either way, someones not gonna have any fun when one of these things enters the fray.

And plenty of outfits have over 1-million outfit points. Especially BIG ones. If it used outfit points to build one, ill bet outfits like GOTR would just pump these things out due to their sheer size and force of numbers.

[Stardouser]

The problem with something like Airships that i see is, that no matter how much you make them cost. Someone will find a way to crank out tons of them. They did that in Eve when they added those SuperCarrier ships. (I dont actually play Eve, so correct me if im wrong.) The designers only expected a few to ever be made because of their astronomical cost. But players figured out a way to churn out tons of them. So you'd have to impose a hard limit on how many can be present.

And even then. As soon as an outfit builds a Warship, every enemy on the continent is going to Focus-Fire it down immediately. The biggest threat will be attacked first, so the outfit loses that thing they worked so hard to build. In order to make them survive that kind of firepower, you have to make them inherently overpowered. Then they become almost impossible to kill, and no fun. Either way, someones not gonna have any fun when one of these things enters the fray.

And plenty of outfits have over 1-million outfit points. Especially BIG ones. If it used outfit points to build one, ill bet outfits like GOTR would just pump these things out due to their sheer size and force of numbers.


That's why there would be a combination limit. It costs a lot, and you can't buy more than 1 per week(or 2 weeks if appropriate) even if you have the resources. And the more people that are in an outfit, the more people that are sitting there subject to that one per week limit and the less people there are in other outfits to buy their own.

[Graywolves]

combat airshaps or attackable guild bases wouldn't function the same way as guild halls, since they would be dead most of the time, lol.

The question of a guild hall is a separate one. I always thought maybe they could have non-combat cruise ships out in the ocean that function like guild halls...

If you deploy it and it is destroyed doesn't mean it can't still function as an instanced guild hall area. Give it a timer and resource cost until it can redeploy again, maybe even make it look like it needs repairs to people hanging out inside.

-edit- this is more focused in response to metalsheep's post -endedit-
As for combat purposes or physical presence with direct benefits on battlefields, I think that as long as they balance it correctly it can work. This game takes place in a universe that is in complete control of the developers, all they need to do is control it. Limit the number of ones that can deploy per continent, per empire. Give them long timers for redeployment whether destroyed or recalled.

[Stardouser]

If you deploy it and it is destroyed doesn't mean it can't still function as a zoned guild hall area. Give it a timer and resource cost until it can redeploy again, maybe even make it look like it needs repairs to people hanging out inside.


As for combat purposes or physical presence with direct benefits on battlefields, I think that as long as they balance it correctly it can work. This game takes place in a universe that is in complete control of the developers, all they need to do is control it. Limit the number of ones that can deploy per continent, per empire. Give them long timers for redeployment whether destroyed or recalled.
Ooh, you have a good idea. When it's deployed, it can't do ANYTHING except serve as a guildhall. It can't be destroyed, but it has no weapons either.

Although, where would you be able to deploy them at? It would still allow spawning, after all. So if you deploy it somewhere and that hex gets taken by the enemy, it's going to be an invincible spawn point?

Unless there's enough room in footholds or other noncombat areas to deploy all the outfit guildhalls. Either that or it has to be a separate instance like EQ guild halls.

[Graywolves]

Ooh, you have a good idea. When it's deployed, it can't do ANYTHING except serve as a guildhall. It can't be destroyed, but it has no weapons either.

Although, where would you be able to deploy them at? It would still allow spawning, after all. So if you deploy it somewhere and that hex gets taken by the enemy, it's going to be an invincible spawn point?

Unless there's enough room in footholds or other noncombat areas to deploy all the outfit guildhalls. Either that or it has to be a separate instance like EQ guild halls.

Actually I was going towards when it ISN'T deployed it is functioning only as a Guild Hall.

So if you were to deploy it somewhere and a condition for it to withdraw occured, it would be unable to redeploy for some time. Be absent from the world but still function as an instanced guild hall outside of the conventional game world.


I might have meant to use instanced instead of zoned. I'll edit that.

[Metalsheep]

That's why there would be a combination limit. It costs a lot, and you can't buy more than 1 per week(or 2 weeks if appropriate) even if you have the resources. And the more people that are in an outfit, the more people that are sitting there subject to that one per week limit and the less people there are in other outfits to buy their own.

But then, that gives those outfits time to gather a ton more resources. So that every week on the dot they'll just spawn another one. It'll get focus fired to death or roflstomp everything till everyone quits. And the cycle continues. And thats just for ONE outfit. Again i will use GOTR as an example, GOTR has multiple divisions that they divide their outfit up into. Each division has a pretty large amount of people. In theory, GOTR would be able to spawn 2-3 of these things at once with their seperate divisions. How will you control that? Limit how many ships they have per empire? Then who gets to spawn their ship? How will that be decided?

The idea of some kind of super-vehicle/weapon is inherity flawed for multiplayer balance. Its eaither too weak, or too powerful. And then it is eaither extreamly spammable after someone figures out a trick, or they're hard-limited so that every time one goes down, someone else has another ready and sets it loose.

I'd prefer to see Ground Bases myself, but at some point every important outfit is going to have a base, and where will the space be on the world map for all those different outfit bases? The idea of Planetside and Planetside 2 is that it is persistant and non-instanced. I don't see how Outfit Bases would be possible without instancing them in somewhere.

[Stardouser]

But then, that gives those outfits time to gather a ton more resources. So that every week on the dot they'll just spawn another one. It'll get focus fired to death or roflstomp everything till everyone quits. And the cycle continues. And thats just for ONE outfit. Again i will use GOTR as an example, GOTR has multiple divisions that they divide their outfit up into. Each division has a pretty large amount of people. In theory, GOTR would be able to spawn 2-3 of these things at once with their seperate divisions. How will you control that? Limit how many ships they have per empire? Then who gets to spawn their ship? How will that be decided?

The idea of some kind of super-vehicle/weapon is inherity flawed for multiplayer balance. Its eaither too weak, or too powerful. And then it is eaither extreamly spammable after someone figures out a trick, or they're hard-limited so that every time one goes down, someone else has another ready and sets it loose.

I'd prefer to see Ground Bases myself, but at some point every important outfit is going to have a base, and where will the space be on the world map for all those different outfit bases? The idea of Planetside and Planetside 2 is that it is persistant and non-instanced. I don't see how Outfit Bases would be possible without instancing them in somewhere.

It's not a problem, so what if they are spawned every week? The key is that there aren't 20 of them flying around all the time, and there won't be.

It might take a squad of fighters, but these things are not superweapons, they can be destroyed. And if they end up NOT destroyed because they run around with a squad of fighters running escort, then SOE has truly scored a victory.

Also, the persistence thing is used to shoot down too many things. If something makes sense to do then we need to stop having tunnel vision saying that we can't do it because it conflicts with persistence. The persistence that matters is that when you capture a base, it stays yours until the enemy takes it back. Other things have to be considered on a case by case basis and if there are going to be guild halls for lounging, then they may as well be instanced.

[Sledgecrushr]

Here is an idea, how about just a handful of these airships. They would be capturable but also indestructable. So if your outfit is in posession of one of these ships then you really are a bunch of bad asses.

[Stardouser]

Here is an idea, how about just a handful of these airships. They would be capturable but also indestructable. So if your outfit is in posession of one of these ships then you really are a bunch of bad asses.

Well, indestructible I don't agree with but capturable I would like to see! But then...regular vehicles aren't going to be hackable, so how would this work? It is just a big vehicle, after all.

[Metalsheep]

It's not a problem, so what if they are spawned every week? The key is that there aren't 20 of them flying around all the time, and there won't be.

It might take a squad of fighters, but these things are not superweapons, they can be destroyed. And if they end up NOT destroyed because they run around with a squad of fighters running escort, then SOE has truly scored a victory.

Also, the persistence thing is used to shoot down too many things. If something makes sense to do then we need to stop having tunnel vision saying that we can't do it because it conflicts with persistence. The persistence that matters is that when you capture a base, it stays yours until the enemy takes it back. Other things have to be considered on a case by case basis and if there are going to be guild halls for lounging, then they may as well be instanced.

If it only takes a squad of fighters to kill one, then why bother making it such a huge resource cost? Being as large as people state they want it to be, it will instantly be vaporized by combined fire. Have you ever watched a BFR enter the battlefield? As soon as a BFR enters the fray, the entire enemy team forgets about anything that might be guarding the BFR, and they just annihilate it with sheer volume of fire. (A good BFR pilot can use this to assist his team. But i digress.) They next to never get a chance to do anything in a real fight. The same thing will happen to these warships. They'll be spawned, and destroyed in minits or seconds and the points spent were wasted. Then a different outfit spawns one, it gets nuked. Ect. ect. Its a nightmare to balance them out correctly, yet have them cost a preportionate amount to their effectivness, and keep them from being spammed or lame all at the same time.

[Stardouser]

If it only takes a squad of fighters to kill one, then why bother making it such a huge resource cost? Being as large as people state they want it to be, it will instantly be vaporized by combined fire. Have you ever watched a BFR enter the battlefield? As soon as a BFR enters the fray, the entire enemy team forgets about anything that might be guarding the BFR, and they just annihilate it with sheer volume of fire. (A good BFR pilot can use this to assist his team. But i digress.) They next to never get a chance to do anything in a real fight. The same thing will happen to these warships. They'll be spawned, and destroyed in minits or seconds and the points spent were wasted. Then a different outfit spawns one, it gets nuked. Ect. ect. Its a nightmare to balance them out correctly, yet have them cost a preportionate amount to their effectivness, and keep them from being spammed or lame all at the same time.

Well, you have to remember that I'm expecting it to be too high for infantry or tanks to get a lot of shots in(btw, I don't expect the airship to be able to do any damage to ground units without flying low enough to get raped by tanks, either), so, knowing that it's usually only going to be vulnerable to air units, is 10 fighters really that small of a number? And I didn't mean that it would only take one pass per fighter.

[Graywolves]

I don't expect outfit's to have a Super Weapon of some kind. As we discussed on AGN these could have some weapons maybe. But would likely be used more for more passive benefits of having it in the area.

Anything that makes itself too vulnerable to fire is going to die easily.




If an Outfit Warship were to make it in to the game and ended up flying directly over an enemy base blasting everything away, I'd be disappointed. As pointed out, it would just be destroyed.


It's important to stay aware (in this discussion) that this topic is purely conceptual. Anything said is flexible as we are just bouncing ideas around.

[Baneblade]

Man, if airships were put in my way, they would not be the next BFR or GG.

[Garem]

The problem with something like Airships that i see is, that no matter how much you make them cost. Someone will find a way to crank out tons of them. They did that in Eve when they added those SuperCarrier ships. (I dont actually play Eve, so correct me if im wrong.) The designers only expected a few to ever be made because of their astronomical cost. But players figured out a way to churn out tons of them. So you'd have to impose a hard limit on how many can be present.

And even then. As soon as an outfit builds a Warship, every enemy on the continent is going to Focus-Fire it down immediately. The biggest threat will be attacked first, so the outfit loses that thing they worked so hard to build. In order to make them survive that kind of firepower, you have to make them inherently overpowered. Then they become almost impossible to kill, and no fun. Either way, someones not gonna have any fun when one of these things enters the fray.

Kind of bouncing off of Greywolves idea and my resistance to the assumptions Metalsheep made here...

What about if there were only one or two Airships allowed per continent, per week, per faction that Outfits could bid on rights to use?

That being said, Airships should never be unstoppable. I like the "back for repairs" idea that Greywolves had, too. This would very much justify making Airships much weaker than BF 2142 Titans and EVE Mothership and Titans and whatnot while keeping the great Planetside theme of never-ending war.

I am strongly disinclined to promote incentives to split up groups and gain power in the process. Assume all players input equal effort- a group of 100 players should gain no benefit from becoming two coordinated groups of 50 players. That's very counter-intuitive! Organization should be rewarded with increasing returns to offset the challenge of organizing and leading.

Using that logic, I'd prefer a group of 100 players to have a much better ground/air base than two groups of 50 players can do.

Acquiring airships (or hell, even ground bases) should always be a strategic decision of risk/reward. This is a developer issue, not one we can rightly address.

Similarly, if enemies focus fire airships... good! They're thinking strategically. If the owners lose it, either the Devs need to rebalance it or the players should have been more careful with their assets. It doesn't have to be overpowered at all! This isn't an issue we can address right now because it doesn't actually exist, of course. No sense quarreling over balance concerns until there's something to compare!