Dominations and Revenges are in, thoughts?

[Squeegeez]

http://static.ow.ly/photos/original/uLkc.jpg

Personally I like them, but don't care one way or the other if they make it in.

My mind relates this system to TF2's.

[Raymac]

I think it's cool. Some people really love their stats.

[ThGlump]

If they keep clear from my screen and dont flash and cover half a screen i dont care.

[Eighm]

I don't particularly like them in because PS for me should be more about team effort than individual K : D ratios.

[DaddyTickles]

No strong feelings, either way.

[Hmr85]

Its not gonna bother me so w/e. I'm fine with it.

[Erendil]

If they keep clear from my screen and dont flash and cover half a screen i dont care.

This.

I also don't want to hear some over-the-top voice actor screaming "DOMINATION!!!!!!" in my ear.

If the indicators interferes with my visual or audio perception in any significant way when they are triggered I will not be happy. Hopefully there will be a way to turn any notifications of that type off while playing.

[EVILPIG]

PREPARE TO BE DOMINATED

[StumpyTheOzzie]

I will get quite upset about them because I'll be severely dominated.

I'm always first through the door, always advancing never retreating so I'm always dying and leaving the kills up to the man behind me. Especially since it's SSHD and I'm from Australia. (yay 350ping!)

So, I'll be upset.

I doubt very much if I'll have the option to turn it off though. The whole point of these voiceovers is to tell you how shit/awesome you are at this game. Devs won't allow you to turn that off.

[VanuMAXGuy]

M M M MONSTER KILLL Kill kill

[Rbstr]

If it's like BF3 where it just kinda keeps track in the background I'm perfectly OK with it. I even enjoy it.

[DayOne]

Perhaps the domination just applies to the TR gimp, sorry, infiltrator?

[VioletZero]

Hmmm, I'm a little worried.

Planetside isn't about kills like other shooters. And this may shift the player's focus away from getting the job done to just killing as many players as possible.

[IceyCold]

Planetside 1 tracked your K/D and displayed it. Never seemed to pull away from those who played it like a team game.

I don't care either way personally. I prefer turn continents blue than have a MMMMONSTER KILL.

[Bitmap]

If they keep clear from my screen and dont flash and cover half a screen i dont care.

This

[Crator]

PS1 actually has a full kill stats list under the character info UI window. Show Stats Button.

[Graywolves]

This isn't an arena shooter so I don't think "Domination" or "revenge" is even going to be what we think it is if it makes it.

[Aurmanite]

Hmmm, I'm a little worried.

Planetside isn't about kills like other shooters. And this may shift the player's focus away from getting the job done to just killing as many players as possible.

Planetside is more about kills than other shooters. There's hundreds more people to shoot.

Killing everything that moves is getting the job done.

[Garem]

Planetside 1 tracked your K/D and displayed it. Never seemed to pull away from those who played it like a team game.

I don't care either way personally. I prefer turn continents blue than have a MMMMONSTER KILL.

Huh. I should have figured you batshit crazy NC'ers would die your blood blue.

Leave the fighting to the real soldiers, champ. TR 4 lyfe.

[Shade Millith]

http://static.ow.ly/photos/original/uLkc.jpg

Personally I like them, but don't care one way or the other if they make it in.

My mind relates this system to TF2's.

So long as, like TF2, they don't DO anything other than being an interesting stat, then I really don't care.

[Lonehunter]

I'd say if you where the cause of an enemy's 3? consecutive deaths you get a Domination, Revenge is killing the guy who just killed you.

[cellinaire]

Hmmm, I'm a little worried.

Planetside isn't about kills like other shooters. And this may shift the player's focus away from getting the job done to just killing as many players as possible.

1) Not all FPS players are Stat-whores.

2) Even without it, I think many players still want to kill as many enemies as possible =)

[Ragotag]

I don't particularly like them in because PS for me should be more about team effort than individual K : D ratios.

While I don't mind individual stats, I hope they include other stats that better reflect the team-based aspects to this game. Things like repairs, resupplies, heals, revives, assists, etc. Maybe even have some squad stats as well as Outfit and faction stats.

[ThirdCross]

As long as there is no announcer screaming domination and it doesn't flash up on my screen I could care less. To everyone saying it will encourage stat-whoring, is there a game people don't stat-whore? It will exist whether or not domination and revenge exists.

[cellinaire]

As long as there is no announcer screaming domination and it doesn't flash up on my screen I could care less. To everyone saying it will encourage stat-whoring, is there a game people don't stat-whore? It will exist whether or not domination and revenge exists.

Heh. Pretty much sums up my thinking.

[Malorn]

Dominations and revenges encourage personal killwhoring and detract from team play.

I see K:D and other teamplay discouraging stats to be bad for the game.

There are plenty of better alternatives, namely "Score", since "Score" is something that can be generated from doing many types of activities, like having people spawn at your well-placed galaxy, or giving ammo, or reviving/healing, or capturing objectives, or defending objectives, as well as killing.

Score and Score/Min should be the universal "Stat" that people strive to maximize, not Kills or K:D. This isn't deathmatch.

I know many common FPS games have K:D stats - but much like the running of the bulls, just because its always been done doesn't mean its not incredibly stupid.

There's an awesome demotivator poster illustrating this point.

http://www.despair.com/tradition.html

K:D is bad for teamplay. Axe it. You won't lose any players over it, and the game as a whole will be better.

[fod]

i dont really like individual stats at all

i never looked at mine in PS1 and i never knew you even could until recently

[Chefkoch]

Dominations and revenges encourage personal killwhoring and detract from team play.

I see K:D and other teamplay discouraging stats to be bad for the game.

There are plenty of better alternatives, namely "Score", since "Score" is something that can be generated from doing many types of activities, like having people spawn at your well-placed galaxy, or giving ammo, or reviving/healing, or capturing objectives, or defending objectives, as well as killing.

Score and Score/Min should be the universal "Stat" that people strive to maximize, not Kills or K:D. This isn't deathmatch.

I know many common FPS games have K:D stats - but much like the running of the bulls, just because its always been done doesn't mean its not incredibly stupid.

There's an awesome demotivator poster illustrating this point.

http://www.despair.com/tradition.html

K:D is bad for teamplay. Axe it. You won't lose any players over it, and the game as a whole will be better.

Amen !

Good Post !

Lets not forget, that PS1 didn´t have stats (K/D Score) in the beginning. Its the bane of good teamplay imho.

[Dreamcast]

Yeah we are gonna have people bragging about K/D Ratio.


I mean I would love it their was more usefull stats than that...which their probably will.

[StumpyTheOzzie]

While I don't mind individual stats, I hope they include other stats that better reflect the team-based aspects to this game. Things like repairs, resupplies, heals, revives, assists, etc. Maybe even have some squad stats as well as Outfit and faction stats.

!!!

[Coreldan]

Don't care about them either way. I see them a bit arcadey which I dislike, but as if I would care about some text on the screen?

[StumpyTheOzzie]

Dominations and revenges encourage personal killwhoring and detract from team play.

I see K:D and other teamplay discouraging stats to be bad for the game.

There are plenty of better alternatives, namely "Score", since "Score" is something that can be generated from doing many types of activities, like having people spawn at your well-placed galaxy, or giving ammo, or reviving/healing, or capturing objectives, or defending objectives, as well as killing.

Score and Score/Min should be the universal "Stat" that people strive to maximize, not Kills or K:D. This isn't deathmatch.

I know many common FPS games have K:D stats - but much like the running of the bulls, just because its always been done doesn't mean its not incredibly stupid.

There's an awesome demotivator poster illustrating this point.

http://www.despair.com/tradition.html

K:D is bad for teamplay. Axe it. You won't lose any players over it, and the game as a whole will be better.

So many good ideas in this thread.

[Gandhi]

I think killwhores will be killwhores no matter what the stats say. Tribes Ascend works on a score system too, but there's still plenty of people who play it as if the only goal is to get a good K/D ratio. Unlike games like T:A at least in Planetside we'll have the option of forming groups with people who know how to play in teams and play for objectives, then the killwhores can be left to their own devices. As long as there's enough game mechanics that encourage teamwork I don't think it'll be a problem.

Let me put it this way, I'm more worried about one man tanks than tacky revenge stats that have no impact on gameplay.

[Coreldan]

Well, you could see kills, deaths and k/d in PS just the same, whats the difference :D

[Aractain]

For every person with a good K: D there is someone with a bad K: D. In order not to alienate me errr... them. They should have a big fat score type number *they* can point at that shows that they are actually worth something to thier empire because of kills/support/captures other things that are useful.

EMPIRE USEFULNESS: 345

plz.

(just to make it clear, there will be lots of players who log in just to shoot some nubs and thats fine, I just hope support and objectives will be promoted just as much!)

[Coreldan]

Yeah, I really want to see support people properly rewarded.

Then again, I had my reasons to be mostly support in the original game, stuff will be a bit different come PS2, but still!

[EVILoHOMER]

The up side is it's a fun meta game but the down side is it could promote people protecting their pride and not taking any risks. The whole system killed people going Scout class in TF2 and running to the flag because it is no fun being dominated.

[ringring]

I'd rather not have them as they're a bit arcadey / cheesy.

In game I'll ignore them I expect.

[Sinilaid]

We need someone to shout "Domination" "Revange" and "Monsterkill" in a manly voice, that would be cool

[Hamma]

Dominations and revenges encourage personal killwhoring and detract from team play.

I see K:D and other teamplay discouraging stats to be bad for the game.

There are plenty of better alternatives, namely "Score", since "Score" is something that can be generated from doing many types of activities, like having people spawn at your well-placed galaxy, or giving ammo, or reviving/healing, or capturing objectives, or defending objectives, as well as killing.

Score and Score/Min should be the universal "Stat" that people strive to maximize, not Kills or K:D. This isn't deathmatch.

I know many common FPS games have K:D stats - but much like the running of the bulls, just because its always been done doesn't mean its not incredibly stupid.

There's an awesome demotivator poster illustrating this point.

http://www.despair.com/tradition.html

K:D is bad for teamplay. Axe it. You won't lose any players over it, and the game as a whole will be better.
This post exactly.

[MrBloodworth]

Planetside 1 tracked your K/D and displayed it. Never seemed to pull away from those who played it like a team game.

That was added late in life. And yes, it did degrade the game. This is why people started screaming about killing Gens.

You interrupted the death-match and kill farming.


It shifted the game from a war game, to a session based shooter game where only the individual mattered.

[Canaris]

as long as it's not screaming at me "YOUR BEING DOMINATED BY GimpNC69!" all the time during game play I don't care.

[JHendy]

I don't particularly like them in because PS for me should be more about team effort than individual K : D ratios.

Indeed.

[EVILPIG]

This argument goes back to the ages and you will find the trend to most always be, those who are good at killing wants stats, those who are not, do not. You can look up my old threads on the official forums where as one of the top killers in the game, I have always advocated for the noob. I do believe that tracking the stats are important, but I do not believe you should put the players on public display for ridicule. It's alienating. While enjoyed being on the leader board and having days as #1 on planetsidestats, I would have preferred such things not exist. What is important is to recognize the other roles that players fill with stat-tracking of their own.

However, saying that it's "not all about kills" is accurate, but at the end of the day, it is what is most important. You will NEED to kill the enemy to take their territory and support roles are there to support that need. Medics revive so that players can keep killing. Engineers repair and resupply so that players can keep killing. When you transport troops, unless you're dropping onto an empty facility, you're going to need to kill. If the enemy responds, you will need to kill. I have always told players that you don't need to be a magnificent slayer, but if you do kill 1 soldier for every death, you are pretty much doing your job. Everything beyond that is just gravy. Kill stats are a measure of a player's worth, and for those who focus on killing the enemy, it is a gauge.

Are dominations and revenges necessary? Not likely, but it will be interesting to see.

[MrBloodworth]

Killing the opposition is a function of a war game.

That does not mean it needs to be the focus of said game. The larger engagement, or squad based accomplishments should be.

Praising and rewarding the individual is a function of session based design.

Team based design focuses on the meta game.


Planetside 2 Seems to have lost its heritage.

[ArmedZealot]

Dominations and revenges encourage personal killwhoring and detract from team play.

I see K/D and other teamplay discouraging stats to be bad for the game.

There are plenty of better alternatives, namely "Score", since "Score" is something that can be generated from doing many types of activities, like having people spawn at your well-placed galaxy, or giving ammo, or reviving/healing, or capturing objectives, or defending objectives, as well as killing.

Score and Score/Min should be the universal "Stat" that people strive to maximize, not Kills or K/D. This isn't deathmatch.

I know many common FPS games have K/D stats - but much like the running of the bulls, just because its always been done doesn't mean its not incredibly stupid.

There's an awesome demotivator poster illustrating this point.

http://www.despair.com/tradition.html

K/D is bad for teamplay. Axe it. You won't lose any players over it, and the game as a whole will be better.

I disagree that this will affect teamplay that much. Games like Tribes: Ascend and CS revolve around team combat with these features and have even grown to form competitive team leagues. K/D ratio doesn't affect teamplay but allows a player to do exactly what Higby said in the video said it would do, which is to get better in the game by providing hard evidence of play style and skill.

"Score" in PS2 is experience earned. You earn it for being a Galaxy pilot and other support roles as much as combat. Higby said this in the video as well.

Deathmatch mechanics bring a large following in FPS games. Along with F2P this will bring a large zerg into the game which is a good thing IMO. They make the game conducive to casual play, and makes a 20 minute game session fun and exciting.

If you want to be more involved in the outfit ops playstyle, nothing about these mechanics says you can't.They don't detract from that style in any way. Don't take away parts of the game that other people enjoy just because it doesn't fit with your style of play.

[Aurmanite]

2 quick questions for those people who don't like K/D, streaks, and domination:

Will these things change how you play?
Are you going to be less team-work orientated because of a bunch of numbers?

When you answer these questions remember that you are not the only people that will feel this way.

People will play their way.

I disagree that this will affect teamplay that much. Games like Tribes: Ascend and CS revolve around team combat with these features and have even grown to form competitive team leagues. K/D ratio doesn't affect teamplay but allows a player to do exactly what Higby said in the video said it would do, which is to get better in the game by providing hard evidence of play style and skill.

"Score" in PS2 is experience earned. You earn it for being a Galaxy pilot and other support roles as much as combat. Higby said this in the video as well.

Deathmatch mechanics bring a large following in FPS's games. Along with F2P this will bring a large zerg into the game which is a good thing IMO. They make the game conducive to casual play, and makes a 20 minute game session fun and exciting.

If you want to be more involved in the outfit ops playstyle. Nothing about these mechanics says you can't. They don't detract from that style in any way. Don't take away parts of the game that other people enjoy just because it doesn't fit with your style of play.

This stuff.

[JHendy]

Kill stats are a measure of a player's worth

Judging by what I've seen in BF3, they most definitely are not.

In that game, the opposite is true. High kill stats are more a measure of a player's unwillingness to actually play the objective or to take any of the risks that are associated with doing do.


2 quick questions for those people who don't like K/D, streaks, and domination:

Will these things change how you play?
Are you going to be less team-work orientated because of a bunch of numbers?

It will definitely end up affecting the way that some of my potential team mates play the game, so yes, in turn, it will affect me.

[ArmedZealot]

It will definitely end up affecting the way that some of my potential team mates play the game, so yes, in turn, it will affect me.


Then why are they your team mates?

[Crator]

The point that the kill stats detract players from team work is a good one. If you only have kill stats and there aren't any other stats that exist that display success in other areas of game play, the stats actually become shallow. Seems to me, if they are only including kill stats, that they just kinda threw it in there cause it's easy to track.

[ThGlump]

Judging by what I've seen in BF3, they most definitely are not.

In that game, the opposite is true. High kill stats are more a measure of a player's unwillingness to actually play the objective or to take any of the risks that are associated with doing do.



Kill stats are reason why most battlefield games turn to be sniperside.

[MrBloodworth]

Its also why most Session based games turn into "Playing alone, together".

[ArmedZealot]

Its also why most Session based games turn into "Playing alone, together".

Session games are "Play alone, together" because they have no persistence. Why put the effort intro organization when all your work is deleted at the end of a match?

This is obviously not true in PS2 because of its scale and permanence, and I believe that makes it an apples to oranges comparison.

[EVILPIG]

Judging by what I've seen in BF3, they most definitely are not.

In that game, the opposite is true. High kill stats are more a measure of a player's unwillingness to actually play the objective or to take any of the risks that are associated with doing do.




It will definitely end up affecting the way that some of my potential team mates play the game, so yes, in turn, it will affect me.

"A" not "the" and don't take it out of context.

[JHendy]

Then why are they your team mates?

Because they're part of the same empire as me?


Session games are "Play alone, together" because they have no persistence.

Battlefield 2 was a session based game. :D

[ArmedZealot]

Because they're part of the same empire as me?

Does that mean you have to squad with them? Does that mean you have to be in the same outfit as them? Does that mean you even have to speak to them? No, you can still play the game by playing it as you wish, with or without these features.




Battlefield 2 was a session based game. :D

Your point? Apples vs. Oranges. Planetside 2 offers overreaching goals that reward Op style play and encourage teamwork for those that have the time to offer it. Battlefield 2 and similar games do not.

However Planetside 2 also offers an analog to session based games to reward casual play. These features should not be deprecated because they are not what you find fun.

[MrBloodworth]

Session games are "Play alone, together" because they have no persistence.

No, they are "Play alone, together" because of the design.

Its all about the individual ( Except in rare cases of E-sports and Private servers ).

[JHendy]

Does that mean you have to squad with them? Does that mean you have to be in the same outfit as them? Does that mean you even have to speak to them? No, you can still play the game by playing it as you wish, with or without these features.

Since the people you are referring to are all the other people who will be populating this game, yes, I will inevitably be interacting with them and playing with them and they will be affecting me. They are the people who will be making up the outfits and squads.

This is supposed to be a deeply team-based game, so no, I cannot play the game 'as I wish', independent of everyone else. The behaviour of other players completely defines the way I play the game, and when the masses are being told that their K/D ratio is the stat that defines how good they are, teamwork and objective based play will suffer.

I don't see how stats like K/D ratio can possibly reflect on how well you're playing a game like Planetside 2, given that it's supposed to be all about cohesion.

I'm not saying that your K/D ratio isn't something that should be available for you to look at, I'm simply saying that It shouldn't be your primary stat in a game that is meant to be about teamwork. In other words, don't stick it on the front page of a player's profile in bold.

Players should be boasting about some sort of 'Overall Value To Empire' type stat that revolves around capturing bases (or something), not their k/d ratio.

[Malorn]

2 quick questions for those people who don't like K/D, streaks, and domination:

Will these things change how you play?
Are you going to be less team-work orientated because of a bunch of numbers?

When you answer these questions remember that you are not the only people that will feel this way.

People will play their way.


The behaviors that the game encourages are the behaviors the game will have. Individuals may shy away from them or not care, but the majority population will follow the cues the game provides to answer the question of "Am I doing well?" If the game encourages deathmatching and maximizing kills while minimizing deaths you will have very different behavior overall in the game than if it did not have those things.

PS1 Example: Do you cap that tower or farm it for kills?

If Score is the key metric and you get a lot of points for capture, then you will be encouraged to cap that tower and move on (or maybe farm a few kills and then capture, but farming too long risks the capture). If the game encourages K/D, you will sit in front of the tower door with a tank and not even attempt a capture.

I know what would do, but what I would do doesn't matter. It's the impact to the general player base that I'm worried about.

These type of stats are important in session-based games where killing really is the only real metric and you could flip a coin and predict the outcome of a round. Games like battlefield would also benefit from the removal of "Deaths' and "K/D" - kills are fine, but shouldn't be emphasized any more than revives or repairs.

Deaths as a tracked stat discourages risk-taking. People will do the lamest behavior there is just to minimize deaths so they can maximize their precious K/D ratio and prove to the rest of the world that they are good at the game. Saying "oh hey just ignore it if you dont care for it" doesn't change the fact that the rest of the game around me adopts anti-teamwork behavior because the game rewards that with recognition.

[sylphaen]

While I don't mind individual stats, I hope they include other stats that better reflect the team-based aspects to this game. Things like repairs, resupplies, heals, revives, assists, etc. Maybe even have some squad stats as well as Outfit and faction stats.

I agree, this system needs MORE stats. And hopefully, there is also an XP assist system in place like PS1.

[TheBladeRoden]

We need someone to shout "Domination" "Revange" and "Monsterkill" in a manly voice, that would be cool

Now I'm gonna hafta try and record those voices