Light Assault Ammo Drop

[Mordicant]

I am curious on how the light assault ammo drop system is going to work? Is it unlimited? How often can you drop it. Do you get all ammo types from it? Do medics have a similar medpack drop?

[xSquirtle]

With the whole no inventory management system, this comes to no surprise they would add something like this. My guess is that they well limit it, to maybe 2 or 3 packs per player.

[VanuMAXGuy]

Great, just what we need, more BF3 copy pasta.

Don't do ammo drops. It's a lazy cop out and you may as well just give everyone infinite ammo.

[Whalenator]

I'm disappointed that they're trying to dumb down the game. I'm all for making things simpler, but doing this doesn't really add to gameplay... If anything, it detracts from it. A predecessor, in this case Planetside 1, should serve as a direct inspiration for sequels; not just in theme, but in gameplay and feel. I understand how times have changed, but the pace of Planetside 2 has been speed up so much with Squad Spawns and the Class System (Not that either of those are individually flawed) that death seems to have become just a minor inconvenience. In Planetside 1 it was hard to get killed, and you knew that if you got creamed you had really messed something up. Cheap deaths were few and far between.

...But, as many others say, we'll just have to wait and see.

EDIT: On a less existential note, they really should grant ammo boxes to support classes. Light Assault is the second to last class that should be able to dispense ammo, the last being the infiltrator (Though apparently they have shotguns now.)

[Sirisian]

Huge fan of the more limited ammo system. That's a step in the right direction. It was nice Higby kill a few people then run out of ammo and have to resupply.

[Synapses]

I understand how times have changed, but the pace of Planetside 2 has been speed up so much with Squad Spawns and the Class System (Not that either of those are individually flawed) that death seems to have become just a minor inconvenience. In Planetside 1 it was hard to get killed, and you knew that if you got creamed you had really messed something up. Cheap deaths were few and far between.

...But, as many others say, we'll just have to wait and see.

E)

What? Your kidding me right... you know the number one complaint I have about Planetside 1? I died so easily and so quickly and it had a rock paper scissor feel to it. To say that if you died in Planetside 1 you really messed up... Yeah right Whale. Thats probably the single most untrue statement ive read about Plantside. You died so quickly and easily in almost anything but tanks and BFR's. I come around the corner to a guy using third person view with his MCG, dead, no chance. I was live streaming earlier today and was getting mad because I was dying 10 seconds after I spawned weather it be random bad luck or some guy with his MCG, and it only took a few seconds like I said. So your point is here on out invalid in every sense.


Ammo boxes are a good addition. It makes it so I dont have to run all the way back to the AMS/Terminal to get my ammo back. Now I can just back out of combat a ways and rearm. How is that ANY different then the HP/Armor system in PS1 right now. Its probably something you have to cert in to on top of that.

[Whalenator]

What? Your kidding me right... you know the number one complaint I have about Planetside 1? I died so easily and so quickly and it had a rock paper scissor feel to it. To say that if you died in Planetside 1 you really messed up... Yeah right Whale. Thats probably the single most untrue statement ive read about Plantside. You died so quickly and easily in almost anything but tanks and BFR's. I come around the corner to a guy using third person view with his MCG, dead, no chance. I was live streaming earlier today and was getting mad because I was dying 10 seconds after I spawned weather it be random bad luck or some guy with his MCG, and it only took a few seconds like I said. So your point is here on out invalid in every sense.


Ammo boxes are a good addition. It makes it so I dont have to run all the way back to the AMS/Terminal to get my ammo back. Now I can just back out of combat a ways and rearm. How is that ANY different then the HP/Armor system in PS1 right now. Its probably something you have to cert in to on top of that.

It seems like an SMG can kill a medium assault in two seconds if well-aimed.
It took maybe three direct hits (~2.5 seconds) with the most powerful close combat weapon in the game (Jackhammer) OR MORE to kill someone in reinforced armor.

Aside from the occasional spawn tube raids, when you're on the defensive you die slower. Longer respawn times might give the allusion that you're dying more often or maybe you're just bad. :groovy:

tl;dr You die quicker in PS2.

[Synapses]

It seems like an SMG can kill a medium assault in two seconds if well-aimed.
It took maybe three direct hits (~2.5 seconds) with the most powerful close combat weapon in the game (Jackhammer) OR MORE to kill someone in reinforced armor.

Aside from the occasional spawn tube raids, when you're on the defensive you die slower. Longer respawn times might give the allusion that you're dying more often or maybe you're just bad. :groovy:

tl;dr You die quicker in PS2.

Welcome to modern shooter mechanics Whale. Get used to it. I love how this looks. I stated what my biggest complaint was in PS1, and that was ground warfare in CQC. This looks much more fluid and modern. Yes a little BF2ish, but still awesome in every way. I prefer to not have this BS that is strafing ad ad ad ad ad in PS1 or the rock paper scissor feeling of firefights.

*shrug*

I still respect you and love you whale, just dont agree to the comments on PS1.

[Whalenator]

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree then.

[Sirisian]

What? Your kidding me right... you know the number one complaint I have about Planetside 1? I died so easily and so quickly and it had a rock paper scissor feel to it. To say that if you died in Planetside 1 you really messed up... Yeah right Whale. Thats probably the single most untrue statement ive read about Plantside. You died so quickly and easily in almost anything but tanks and BFR's. I come around the corner to a guy using third person view with his MCG, dead, no chance. I was live streaming earlier today and was getting mad because I was dying 10 seconds after I spawned weather it be random bad luck or some guy with his MCG, and it only took a few seconds like I said. So your point is here on out invalid in every sense.
What? I'm a huge fan of long TTKs since it offers a player a choice about what to do especially in a big game. I find it kind of odd that you'd say PS1 had a TTK that was too short. Most kills took seconds compared to a modern game where a few milliseconds are required to kill someone with a few bullets. Mind expanding what you'd prefer? Are we talking about multiple seconds? Like where you put 30 rounds into a person before killing them? (Note, I'm not against that, but remember we have recharging shields).

You could tell in the gameplay video that Higby was taking damage left and right. Was he dying for that random bullets hitting him? No. And that's really all most of us are asking for. His shield recharges and he goes on with playing. He doesn't sit and heal/repair for 5 seconds. Then you see on the other hand a few well placed shots will kill someone fairly quickly which is expected. Obviously with a ton of people it needs to be balanced so you don't end up with "instant" kills with hundreds of bullets flying around, but from what I could tell they're at a good start for balancing.

The only problem I have with currently is the lack of choices during combat. You can throw a grenade, aim, shoot, or reload which looked to be it from the combat choices. Hoping they expand on that a bit since I prefer complex combat decisions.

[IceyCold]

One thing I did notice that I actually LIKED (given we are gona have to deal with an ammo drop system which I really don't like) is that it takes a good amount of time to get ammo from the ammo drop.

If you watch the video, it takes about 2-3 seconds to get a single clip of ammo from the drop box. So you have to stay near it for a while to get fully resupplied.

So at least it isn't just: Throw on ground>Everyone is full stock again instantly. And I am fairly sure it will have a limited supply.

Just add it to the list of things to test and balance in beta.

[Synapses]

Siri, I am totally cool with how things are looking right now. I am not even 0.01% disappointed.

[Cosmical]

The only problem I have with currently is the lack of choices during combat. You can throw a grenade, aim, shoot, or reload which looked to be it from the combat choices. Hoping they expand on that a bit since I prefer complex combat decisions.

Agree Agree.

Although how complex do you want to get? From the sounds of things everyone has a damage grenade and a untility grenade. And i hate it when corner or door battles just become spam with grenades, i dont know how much more complex a game of this size can get.

If you look aswell, throwing a grenade was abit clunky, by design. It took him a while to throw, and he was vulnerable while doing so for quite a while. Hopefully that will be enough to make throwing a grenade a skilled choice, rather than a desperate mans flinging.

[Vancha]

The only thing I'd say is, when Higby ran out of ammo I was like "Aha! Now you'll have to get the pistol out and fight for your life!", then I saw the ammo box and I was slightly disappointed.

I'm not really against ammo boxes, but I wonder whether it'd be more fun to sit on ammo boxes to reload, or find yourself occasionally caught short and have to survive with your side-arm.

[Synapses]

The only thing I'd say is, when Higby ran out of ammo I was like "Aha! Now you'll have to get the pistol out and fight for your life!", then I saw the ammo box and I was slightly disappointed.

I'm not really against ammo boxes, but I wonder whether it'd be more fun to sit on ammo boxes to reload, or find yourself occasionally caught short and have to survive with your side-arm.

I think it will still play out both ways, everyone probably isnt going to have the ammobox in light assault and obviously outside of that class...

So I think youll still see both things happening.

[kklkit]

For those who are wondering:

"Grenade spam: grenades cost resources, spam shouldn't be a problem"

So I would assume that ammo box won't resupply grenade but just ammo for guns.

[Ragotag]

So I would assume that ammo box won't resupply grenade but just ammo for guns.

Good point, unlike BF3 which only makes it take much longer to resupply grenades assuming your ammo is already full up. I do hope they limit how much ammo an ammo drop can provide; would be a nice gameplay feature if it took more than one ammo drop to resupply your squad -- would force your squad to defend an area for a bit while resupplying.

[Mordicant]

I think it will still play out both ways, everyone probably isnt going to have the ammobox in light assault and obviously outside of that class...

So I think youll still see both things happening.

He had also ran and hide. He could have stayed in the fight and expended his pistol as while. Then thrown his helmet a la Saving Private Ryan.

[Zulthus]

The only thing I'd say is, when Higby ran out of ammo I was like "Aha! Now you'll have to get the pistol out and fight for your life!", then I saw the ammo box and I was slightly disappointed.

I'm not really against ammo boxes, but I wonder whether it'd be more fun to sit on ammo boxes to reload, or find yourself occasionally caught short and have to survive with your side-arm.

I felt the same way... I really hate how they're taking so many mechanics from BF3 and putting it into the game. Squad spawning and throwing ammo/med boxes? are the worst ones. Killcam seems to be a thing used in many games now and that is another really bad one I hoped wouldn't land in the game. All three, while "modern mechanics", doesn't meant they should be in the game. There's absolutely nothing wrong with having "archaic mechanics" in the game, like actually having to work to get a spawn point or heal each other. It looked like there was no cooldown on squad spawning when Higby was playing. Unless that was just for showing it off.

[Aractain]

A lot of you really sound like "Its not like the good ole days!". Lots of people asked for portable ammo terminals in PS1 and a lot of other stuff.

[Sirisian]

Although how complex do you want to get? From the sounds of things everyone has a damage grenade and a untility grenade. And i hate it when corner or door battles just become spam with grenades, i dont know how much more complex a game of this size can get.
As the time to kill (TTK) goes up you end up opening the doors for a lot of gameplay choices (also destroying some other). Take PS1 for instance, you could easily jump through a door and shoot at people or run from cover to cover taking bullets left and right without dying because of damage degradation and low damage for each bullet. This meant players were forced to aim and land well placed shots. As Whalenator said if you died you knew you did something wrong. You ran behind the wrong cover, didn't fall back to a door when a tank was driving past, among other things. Basically you want the TTK to reflect how many choices you want a player to make. Right not it seems very well balanced. You have people tactically crouching at doorways shooting and others standing. There isn't a huge risk it looks like for stepping out and getting a view like in some games.

Regarding making combat more complex I might have spoke too soon. I mean they also have sprint and the light assault has a jetpack greatly increasing choices. Increasing it can be done in a lot of ways. One of them is deployables for defense and countermeasures. Simple stuff (prepare for game references) like short deployable shields that you can pass through but can block bullets (BF2142), momentary armor bonuses when you reveal yourself to enemies (Crysis), shield bubbles for defending groups (Halo), armor lock for taking an attempted hit and run (Halo), anti-grenade deployable, then on the offensive style complex fire modes (http://www.planetside-universe.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36593). Stuff like single, triple-shot, burst, auto for weapons with varying bonuses go a long way for choices and tactics. (Though, it's easily argued that role overlap for weapons becomes a problem). Then you have squad abilities. I'm a huge fan of FPS+RPG games (think Bioshock etc). So having abilities for classes like a medic ability of "Sacrifice" that discharges a player's shield and recharges all neighboring shields. Basically things that a player can do along with their weapons in the middle of a battle quickly that could mean life or death for themselves or others. The idea of "I would have lived if I'd've done X" is important to me. Taking this to the extreme results in abilities described in this thread (http://www.planetside-universe.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37211). Including defensive countermeasures for catching/redirecting grenades/rockets/tank shells, blocking bullets at the cost of not shooting, converting a player's shields into health as a medic AOE for friendlies. (Never been a fan of non-defensive abilities. Guns are good for that). As mentioned these go for far away to give a player possibly dozens of choices increasing the skill of the gameplay. It's not about who shot first. It's about "oh his teammate transferred his shields to the person I was about to kill and then his other teammate killed me". Complexity and interactions you don't find in other games. (Unless it's like a lame TF2 medic. More of a battle-medic who assists while fighting).

(Also if anyone is curious. I've only played the first Halo for PC so I'm going off videos).

If you look aswell, throwing a grenade was abit clunky, by design. It took him a while to throw, and he was vulnerable while doing so for quite a while. Hopefully that will be enough to make throwing a grenade a skilled choice, rather than a desperate mans flinging.
It's the exact implementation I wanted for it. I'm glad they went with that longer delay.

[Malorn]

I like it, makes sense. Encourages diversity in arms. I like each class having their own value and niches.

[VioletZero]

I don't like it.

Ammo should really be a part of the supply lines aspect and be more limited.

One idea I kind of like is the idea of taking ammo boxes from Sunderers directly. And them having a limited supply of ammo on their own.

And each ammo box being capable of resupplying only so many times.

The only thing that can grant infinite supplies is a base itself. While attacking through, you're limited.

[Malorn]

On another note, if grenades cost resources, and implants are like buffs, then both become resource sinks in the game.

I like resource sinks. It keeps resources meaningful.

Resource caps are also meaningful, not letting us stockpile seemingly infinite resources means we have to manage our resources, not simply acquire them.

So yay to grenades and implants costing resources. I hope they have reasonable but meaningful caps on resources as well to keep resources valuable and keep us fighting for them.

I also like how population factors into resource accrual rate. I assume that means that is inversely proportional to population, since that's the only thing that makes sense.

[CutterJohn]

I felt the same way... I really hate how they're taking so many mechanics from BF3 and putting it into the game. Squad spawning and throwing ammo/med boxes? are the worst ones. Killcam seems to be a thing used in many games now and that is another really bad one I hoped wouldn't land in the game. All three, while "modern mechanics", doesn't meant they should be in the game. There's absolutely nothing wrong with having "archaic mechanics" in the game, like actually having to work to get a spawn point or heal each other. It looked like there was no cooldown on squad spawning when Higby was playing. Unless that was just for showing it off.

I hold no opinion one way or the other on kill cams, but i love the ammo and med boxes. I'm glad you are not making the game. :)

But then I love the BF series. Its by far my favorite as far as infantry combat goes. I love it when people compare it to BF, since that just puts a smile on my face. :D

[IceyCold]

I just noticed this about the ammo dispensers:

If you go to the 4th video, at 0:50 where he drops the ammo canister; he is only allowed to carry ONE.

So if it gives limited ammo, and does not resupply him with another Ammo Canister then I can see this being a non issue.

[StumpyTheOzzie]

The only thing I'd say is, when Higby ran out of ammo I was like "Aha! Now you'll have to get the pistol out and fight for your life!", then I saw the ammo box and I was slightly disappointed.

I'm not really against ammo boxes, but I wonder whether it'd be more fun to sit on ammo boxes to reload, or find yourself occasionally caught short and have to survive with your side-arm.

I was hoping to see his hand cannon too.

As for ammo boxes, I think SOMEONE should carry them, but it doesn't seem like it's appropriate at all for the light assault class. The heavy weapons guy would be a much more sensible choice, or the engineer.

Medic would have a lot of "medic" equipment, so probably not them, light assault is... uh.. "light" and manoeuvrable -> not carrying much and of course infil is not going to carry anything.

[Coreldan]

I suppose this is one of the things fairly much a subject to change on feedback if needed.

Personally I'd like something reworked about this.

1) It seemed to be something like a "perk/utility" to have the ammo box, meaning just about everyone will have access to it, but naturally having to trade off something else. Not necessarily a bad thing, people interested in support can do more support instead of combat

2) I'd like it somehow.. more physical instead of a box. I'd like if the guy "built" some kind of "pole" the Aegis Shield Generator had or something :D The "throw a box on the ground" is a bit too BF3, anything different from that is win :D

3) I hope ammo boxes have limited resupplies inside them and/or are not infinite on the "owners end", as in, you got like two boxes and then you gotta go resupply at a term yourself. Not like BF3 where you got an infinite supply of big ass boxes in your pocket.

Overall, not a concern for me :D

EDIT: I was hoping to see the NC pistol as well in the situation, was slightly disappointed in that sense, but I dont think everyone will be running with the ammo box, if they will, it's a matter of feedback and will be changed.

[Dreamcast]

That is pretty stupid....You have an ammo bag...but u have to drop it to use it......



It would be way better if an engineer just carried an ammo box layed it somewhere, then the guys will go and get it.

[CutterJohn]

2) I'd like it somehow.. more physical instead of a box. I'd like if the guy "built" some kind of "pole" the Aegis Shield Generator had or something :D The "throw a box on the ground" is a bit too BF3, anything different from that is win :D

Definitely agree it could be a bit more robust and fancy looking. Not so crazy as a tf2 dispenser, but a bit more than a box. :)


I also highly doubt there will be infinite numbers of boxes, and somewhat(but not totally) doubt the ammo box will be infinite.

[Nick]

Great, just what we need, more BF3 copy pasta.

Don't do ammo drops. It's a lazy cop out and you may as well just give everyone infinite ammo.

Or let's just keep in unfamiliar, archaic and old gameplay mechanics from a dead video game.

No.

[DaddyTickles]

Meh.. They gotta ring some changes. I'm ok with this, its not too offensive and its not like you GOT to drop ammo.

Whatever.

[Vash02]

Meh.. They gotta ring some changes. I'm ok with this, its not too offensive and its not like you GOT to drop ammo.

Whatever.

You do if you want to give ammo to friends.

Seriously people, just because its in BF3 we dont have to have it because its "modern". :rolleyes:

[DaddyTickles]

You do if you want to give ammo to friends.

". :rolleyes:

And if I don't want to, thats fine, ffs.

[Dale]

I think there could be some interesting gameplay if ammo drops are implemented correctly. I guess the right way to go would be to make the ammo drop skill a cert, and the amount of ammo drops limited, which could be improved upon by certing more in to that category.

This way we would not see every Light Assault trooper running around and dropping boxes left and right. Rather, we would see a important assist role arise where these agile troopers aid their teammates with ammo-runs between, let's say a Gal and a forward position in a base that is currently being raided.

For example, You and your squad mates hot drop from a galaxy in to a enemy base. You encounter heavy resistance and are forced to move in to a house for better protection. The problem is that you have a limited supply of ammo. Fortunatly, reinforcements are not too far from your position and your Gal has landed close by. To keep this forward position before being able to push forward it's important that your teammates keep having ammo to fire. So your job is to move out and get more ammo crates from the Gal and then make your way back to your squad.

An interesting counter-tactic for the defending team in this case is to flank the opponent and block incoming ammo-runs, which eventually would lead to the forward positions demise.

Similar to BF3, you will be rewarded for aiding your group with ammo and we see yet another sort of game-style you can choose in PS2.

[texico]

I kind of like the idea - soldiers trading small amounts of ammo on the battlefield or carrying an extra box if they feel they're going to need it.

But I wish your Persona had/hope your Persona has a trade-off system going on, it'd make things feel a lot more fluid. It doesn't have to be tetris inventories, but a person really should be able to decide to carry more ammo boxes by sacrificing speed or small arms or something.

The thing is, if "light assault" has the capability to carry 3 ammo boxes, everyone will carry 3 ammo boxes, there's no reason to carry less and there's nothing you can sacrifice to carry more. Feels less natural.





Also, contrary to popular belief, because PlanetSide wasn't a massive success doesn't mean the mechanics were somehow broken.

I guarantee if you gave a BF/COD player the "inventory system" from PS1 to use in BF/COD so they could determine their weapons and ammo pool, they'd find it amazing. I'm betting that they feel their system of pre-determined equipment is limiting but they accept it as somehow necessary technologically/for balance and there's no other games at all that would give them that freedom anyway. They'd be ecstatic if you told them they could customize their load out fully and combine gear for trade-offs.

PlanetSide is a "dead video game" because SOE never marketed it, nobody has heard of it, it's full of lag and glitches and it therefore never hit the massive mainstream. The mechanics are the REASON the game is still vaguely alive after almost 9 years and there's a hard-core group of fans.

So please, if stuff is implemented/changed, it should be because it's actually awesome and the players (including the BF/COD crowd) prefer it, not just because "it was in PS, which failed, so it must be one of the things holding it back because all the modern shooters do it differently."


Maybe some polls should be conducted on this crowd to see what they would really actually think is good.



This is one of the reasons I hate what SOE did to PlanetSide 1. Everyone assumes the components of the game don't work because it wasn't a massive success. It failed because SOE screwed it up.

[Shogun]

ammo resupply has to be engineer only!

engineers are becoming more and more useless!
no need for armor repair
no ce autodefences
and now other soldiers can even resupply themselfes with ammo?

i was hoping for some ammo dispenser like in tf2 for engineers to build.

SAVE THE ENGINEER!

[SUBARU]

ammo resupply has to be engineer only!

engineers are becoming more and more useless!
no need for armor repair
no ce autodefences
and now other soldiers can even resupply themselfes with ammo?

i was hoping for some ammo dispenser like in tf2 for engineers to build.

SAVE THE ENGINEER!

This

[Vancha]

I'm certainly wondering what role the engineer is supposed to have in PS2. We know very little about him and so far every role they typically have has gone to other classes. What do they do?

[MrBloodworth]

So, no longer do you need a facility, like a tower to get ammo. No longer do you need an engineer to pop down a resupply bubble. No longer will gen holds or Cap holds require sharing of resources.

With the current spawn system, just die and spawn on your squad leader fully equipped.

[DayOne]

So long as they are limited I don't mind.

[LZachariah]

I'd say I was slightly worried when I saw the ammo-drop ability. I'm very hopeful that it isn't BF style, wherein everyone just gets their mags back. And this is on the Light Assault character? The one who's supposed to be the fastest and LIGHTEST? (note their class name). This is the person with a giant cache of spare ammo on them? It seems like it would fit better on Heavy Assault.

But, whatever the case, I don't think any minor detail like this will be game-breaking for what is otherwise an amazingly-founded game. I don't want the Light Assault class to re-arm anyone, but it's ok. Also, I was a little worried when I watched the Gametrailers footage of "bombing run," and noticed that the Reaver had like, 600 rockets. Was that a godmode setting? I hope? o.O

~Zachariah

[Synapses]

This

You guys dont even know the roll of the engi yet... calm down. They have not stated much for what its roll is yet... Turrets we have heard, but thats really about it. Its probably still being worked on. Give it some time.

[PoisonTaco]

What's wrong with one class (that we know of) being able to give ammo to other people in their squad? If the ammo boxes are limited you still have to go back to a terminal and resupply.

You still have a supply line and it gives the light assault something to do in order to support their team. Hell I bet if you really wanted to you could be that guy who runs around, throwing down ammo packs for people then running back to the Gal/Sunderer to get more.

In case you haven't noticed, the facilities look huge. Being able to push into them only to run out of ammo would be frustrating. You're better off dying and respawning than running all the way back to the Galaxy in order to get more ammo. Having ammo packs given out by players would help in an offensive push. It also gives some more target priority. Want the enemy to run out of ammo? Kill the light assaults.

[Pozidriv]

I don't mind ammo drops, but it did feel odd that L.Assault had it. Engineer does seems like a better candidate for it or H.Assault.

We can't fully judge the ammo drop mechanic since it ties so much to the pacing of the game. Those courtyards and facilities look mighty huge... gonna be needing alot of ammo to chew through all of them NC and VS :P.

[ThGlump]

I don't mind ammo drops, but it did feel odd that L.Assault had it. Engineer does seems like a better candidate for it or H.Assault.


Well looks like they had only 2 classes implemented for that demo (+maybe medic as there was ressing if it wanst used by light assault). Light assault and cloaker. So its possible that ammo drops will be another class in the end and was given to light assault just for demo.

[DayOne]

Well looks like they had only 2 classes implemented for that demo (+maybe medic as there was ressing if it wanst used by light assault). Light assault and cloaker. So its possible that ammo drops will be another class in the end and was given to light assault just for demo.

We did see some TR HA so i assume HA are done.

[Sifer2]

It seriously seems like they are grasping at straws to make Light Assault useful or something. First Smoke Grenades and now Ammo Kits too? Neither has a compelling reason to be exclusive to that class. And its probably because the class isn't very good. In the video's the jump jets didn't do much. He got on a roof top. But funny thing is guns can still shoot you on roofs. So he was still just a less armored target, and died quick.

As for ammo kits themselves i'm not entirely against the mechanic. Though its definitely dumbed down to have the magic box that replenishes all types of ammo. I don't care if its a box of nanites or whatever excuse there is. But I don't think it should be limited to one class. I would rather it go into a list of extra equipment you can use at the expense of not having something else. Like a Medkit, Hack tool, Smoke, etc. I just want more of that old customizable inventory feel back.

[Shogun]

maybe someone with twitter ask higby, if the ammobox we saw was a consumable item? like an alternative to c4 or a grenade?
and if engineers maybe get something that works similar but doesn´t eat ressources as its not consumable?

[Brusi]

I would prefer if dropped ammo packs deducted some ammo from yourself and there was a class that started off with a shit-tonne of ammo.

[SKYeXile]

yea, i dont like it, i think it would be better if the engineer dropped an ammo dispenser like TF2...you know...as the support role and all.

[Brusi]

Or heavy assault could donate some ammo...

Or MAX could take supply crate instead of a weapon...

Or um... anything except for infinite ammo boxes dropped infinitely from perhaps one of the most played classes?

[Bags]

My only complaint is that the light assault has this and not another class such as heavy assault or engineer.

[Bags]

Okay, I just asked higby why another class such as HA or Engineer doesn't have it, and he said

@BagOfChips We're still messing with it, it very well may go on Heavy Assault.

[dsi]

So where did he get the ammo from and why didn't he just put it directly into his gun instead of tossing it on the ground first like an idiot?

This kind of bullshit is why we need a free inventory system, load up with spare ammo & either use it yourself or share with others using a totally ground breaking "drop thing and pick up thing" system.

[Shade Millith]

It's Battlefield copy paste, and it's a poor one.

Ammo needs to be limited. None of this stupid 'Outta ammo? I have unlimited!"

Again, this is just another removal of meaning.

Whats the point of staying alive if you can be rezed instantly?
What's the point of conserving ammo if there's an unlimited supply of it right next to you?

I'm sick of them making games easier for lazy people. Dying and resupply should mean something, at least more than an instantly, easy solution.

[Synapses]

Would you guys PLEASE stop judging until you get in game and get a chance to test it out. Your being judging something you saw for a whole whopping 15 seconds out of 30 minutes... Sheesh.

Give it a chance, if its not widely not like by the player base in beta, it will probably change or go away.

[Zulthus]

It's Battlefield copy paste, and it's a poor one.

Ammo needs to be limited. None of this stupid 'Outta ammo? I have unlimited!"

Again, this is just another removal of meaning.

Whats the point of staying alive if you can be rezed instantly?
What's the point of conserving ammo if there's an unlimited supply of it right next to you?

I'm sick of them making games easier for lazy people. Dying and resupply should mean something, at least more than an instantly, easy solution.

Exactly this... I got bored of BF quickly because nothing had any meaning. You respawned in 3 seconds, you had unlimited ammo***, regenerating health/vehicles, very stupid spotting system, etc etc etc. If you want that bullshit I'd say you should just go play BF3.

***Yes, you did, there was NEVER an instance when there weren't six ammo boxes laying around.

[sylphaen]

Vanu says:
Make them bend and pick up the ammo themselves from the f***ing box !

[Marinealver]

TOTTALY AGAINST IT At least for the light assault class. I mean it is bad enough it can jump to out of reach places. Now you give it the ability to camp?!?
Light assault is made for mobility. Therfore a light assault player need to be "mobile" to be sucessfull. Low/Out of ammo? the light assault guy is the fastest class to fall back, grab some more, and return to the front while the rest of the footslogers are simply trapped.

If anyone should get the ammo drop it should be either the Heavy Assault or the Engineer with a Ammo dispensor.

[Coreldan]

Exactly this... I got bored of BF quickly because nothing had any meaning. You respawned in 3 seconds, you had unlimited ammo***, regenerating health/vehicles, very stupid spotting system, etc etc etc. If you want that bullshit I'd say you should just go play BF3.

***Yes, you did, there was NEVER an instance when there weren't six ammo boxes laying around.

I ran out of ammo several times with no ammo boxes around. Most of the time the support class was by far the least played class.

Also, don't blame the game, play it on hardcore. Just about everything you complained about there is fixed by not playing on normal servers. That's what I do, that's the way the game becomes enjoyable :D

[GhundiPI]

Haven't read the entire thread so apologies if I missed something, but doesn't it make more sense to perform resupplies through air drops?

[Knocky]

Haven't read the entire thread so apologies if I missed something, but doesn't it make more sense to perform resupplies through air drops?

I expect that flying will be a short lived experience for anything cargo related.

Hell, I am not a flyer but I am looking forward to trying out the new flight physics in PS2 so it's safe to say that the skies will be very populated.

[MrBloodworth]

Would you guys PLEASE stop judging until you get in game and get a chance to test it out.

It will be too late then.

[raidyr]

It will be too late then.

They have said several times that while they are steaming through development, balance changes will be the focus for beta testing. If they are true to their word than it shouldn't be too late.

[CutterJohn]

I agree that the role seems more fitting for an engineer. Plus it would give them another purpose for hanging out with a squad. Right now the only purpose for bringing an engineer seems to be as a MAX repair unit.

[Figment]

Regardless if you got out of ammo once or twice in BF3, how often did you run out in PS1?

BIG difference. If you hand out ammo, prepare to do with less yourself. That is what I think about this whole thing.

[Knocky]

I agree that the role seems more fitting for an engineer. Plus it would give them another purpose for hanging out with a squad. Right now the only purpose for bringing an engineer seems to be as a MAX repair unit.


You say that as if there will not be many MAXes around. Since you can fill a a Gal with MAXes now, I am pretty sure you will want Engi's around just as much as Medics.

[Figment]

They have said several times that while they are steaming through development, balance changes will be the focus for beta testing. If they are true to their word than it shouldn't be too late.

Balance is something different from complete mechanic overhauls.

Be judgmental, but fair.

[captainkapautz]

It seems to me like several people in here are hating on the ammobox drop not because it's making the game to "easy", which it isn't, but just cause of the fact that it was in Battlefield.

It's kind of inane to dislike something just cause it happend to be in a game one didn't like.

On topic of ammoboxes, I support it because the lack of an inventory and therefore the lack of being able to pick up ammo from dead peoples backpacks would severly limited the time people would be able to stay in an engagement, going by the amount of ammo being carried during the GDC-gameplay.

However, I do not support the fact, as has been mentioned by other people as well, that at the moment Light Assault is the class that drops ammoboxes.
I'm very much in favor of moving it to either Heavy Assault, because they're supposed to be in the thick of it, or the Engineer, because well Supportclass.

[MrBloodworth]

It seems to me like several people in here are hating on the ammobox drop not because it's making the game to "easy", which it isn't, but just cause of the fact that it was in Battlefield.

No. It's because it waters down game play. It should be a terminal, that engineers deploy. Not a box that someone walks over. This isn't a session based shooter.

Putting it back to Towers, Terminals, AMS like terminals and Engi deployed Terms ( like the ageis shield ) brings back logistics and denial back into the game. It makes those sub-goals viable, and conforms more to a War game. Those assets need to be protected, or discovered and removed depending on what side you are on.

Having someone poop out a box every 5 seconds removes all that.


http://wiki.planetsidesyndicate.com/images/4/4b/AegisAmmo.jpg

http://wiki.planetsidesyndicate.com/images/f/f9/AegisInfo.jpg

[MrBloodworth]

They have said several times that while they are steaming through development, balance changes will be the focus for beta testing. If they are true to their word than it shouldn't be too late.'

Developers always say that. You will not see core game changes in beta. It won't happen.

[Neksar]

You can't give it to REXO because they're the ones that need it, so there will be scores of them in any situation where people will need bullets. You can't give it to the medic - they already heal. You can't give it to a MAX - they're not supposed to support in that way. All that's left is light assault and engineer.

[headcrab13]

Ammo drop from a teamwork perspective is great -- it keeps squads fighting in a formation and allows group to live longer.

I'd just prefer it not be infinite ammo. A few drops per "loadout" is fine, or a drop every few minutes would be great.

[captainkapautz]

No. It's because it waters down game play. It should be a terminal, that engineers deploy. Not a box that someone walks over. This isn't a session based shooter.

Putting it back to Towers, Terminals, AMS like terminals and Engi deployed Terms ( like the ageis shield ) brings back logistics and denial back into the game. It makes those sub-goals viable, and conforms more to a War game. Those assets need to be protected, or discovered and removed depending on what side you are on.

Having someone poop out a box every 5 seconds removes all that.


http://wiki.planetsidesyndicate.com/images/4/4b/AegisAmmo.jpg

http://wiki.planetsidesyndicate.com/images/f/f9/AegisInfo.jpg

You guys are way to stuck on the whole "OMFG INFINITE BATTLEFIELD AMMOBOXES"-thing.

If Higby hadn't dropped an ammobox during the GDC-gameplay, but instead pulled out some nanitethingymajig that he threw to the ground where it erected itself into a small ammodispenserboxthing over a small timespan of 5-10 seconds or better yet had to use the nanitethingymajig for like 5-10 seconds to erect it, then this whole discussion probably wouldn't even have started.

You got to look past the similarities cause I'd wager a guess that its not to hard to turn the evil instant Battlefieldammobox into a droppable selferecting deployable that takes awhile before its ready or if thats to "modern" for you into a plain old "hold the use button for 5-10 seconds to erect this ACME AMMO4U Ammodispenser".

Really the only thing of about it at the moment is that the Light Assault has it and not a more suitable class like Heavy Assault or Engineer.

P.S.: I will say that any kind of deployable ammosource should be finite and should not resupply itself, i.e. I deploy it and it resupplies me with a new ammodeployable.

[EVILPIG]

TOTTALY AGAINST IT At least for the light assault class. I mean it is bad enough it can jump to out of reach places. Now you give it the ability to camp?!?
Light assault is made for mobility. Therfore a light assault player need to be "mobile" to be sucessfull. Low/Out of ammo? the light assault guy is the fastest class to fall back, grab some more, and return to the front while the rest of the footslogers are simply trapped.

If anyone should get the ammo drop it should be either the Heavy Assault or the Engineer with a Ammo dispensor.

I had a similar concern, so I suggested making it a Command Ability, usable by a squad leader. They would not toss it out, but call it in. However, this creates another issue in that even a MAX could call for it's own ammo.

[Tamas]

TOTTALY AGAINST IT At least for the light assault class. I mean it is bad enough it can jump to out of reach places. Now you give it the ability to camp?!?
Light assault is made for mobility. Therfore a light assault player need to be "mobile" to be sucessfull. Low/Out of ammo? the light assault guy is the fastest class to fall back, grab some more, and return to the front while the rest of the footslogers are simply trapped.

If anyone should get the ammo drop it should be either the Heavy Assault or the Engineer with a Ammo dispensor.

Have to agree.

In my mind - Heavy assault should carry ammo boxes. Or better - engineers should create some small station to rearm.

[Bags]

Higby said they were thinking of moving it to HA or Engineer when I tweeted him about it

[kaffis]

I like it on LA. Why?

As the person who resurrected this thread at the end of page 4 pointed out, the highly mobile LA class is the one least troubled by returning for supplies just by turning around and heading to the spawn point and coming back. It's quick, it's got jets, it won't take it long.

But that's working from the assumption that the ammo feature is meant to benefit the LA.

It's not. It's a teamplay feature. The LA is the guy who *doesn't* need to have infinite ammo, because it's easy for him to get more quickly and return to the fight. But having the ammo gives him an incentive to stick around the REST of the team, because they sure as hell do need ammo, and can't spare the time it would take to leave their posts and allow the enemy to take their position.

Give it to engineer or HA, and you lose that. Because they'll be with the whole team anyways, and are, honestly, the ones consuming the ammo most effectively to begin with. In their hands, it IS a solo tool. In LA's hands, it's a support tool for his team, because even with infinite ammo, he's not armed and armored to embody a one-man assault.

[captainkapautz]

I like it on LA. Why?

As the person who resurrected this thread at the end of page 4 pointed out, the highly mobile LA class is the one least troubled by returning for supplies just by turning around and heading to the spawn point and coming back. It's quick, it's got jets, it won't take it long.

But that's working from the assumption that the ammo feature is meant to benefit the LA.

It's not. It's a teamplay feature. The LA is the guy who *doesn't* need to have infinite ammo, because it's easy for him to get more quickly and return to the fight. But having the ammo gives him an incentive to stick around the REST of the team, because they sure as hell do need ammo, and can't spare the time it would take to leave their posts and allow the enemy to take their position.

Give it to engineer or HA, and you lose that. Because they'll be with the whole team anyways, and are, honestly, the ones consuming the ammo most effectively to begin with. In their hands, it IS a solo tool. In LA's hands, it's a support tool for his team, because even with infinite ammo, he's not armed and armored to embody a one-man assault.

I think it's counter-productive to give one of the 2 scout-classes, the other being Infiltrator, an incentive to stick WITH the team.

[raidyr]

Balance is something different from complete mechanic overhauls.

Be judgmental, but fair.
I'm being exactly that?

It's more fair to say that when more people get to play it they will have more feedback than "Absolutely not changing ever".

'

Developers always say that. You will not see core game changes in beta. It won't happen.

Disagree, I've seen it happen several times in several betas.

The pessimism on these boards

[Blackwolf]

What? Your kidding me right... you know the number one complaint I have about Planetside 1? I died so easily and so quickly and it had a rock paper scissor feel to it. To say that if you died in Planetside 1 you really messed up... Yeah right Whale. Thats probably the single most untrue statement ive read about Plantside. You died so quickly and easily in almost anything but tanks and BFR's. I come around the corner to a guy using third person view with his MCG, dead, no chance. I was live streaming earlier today and was getting mad because I was dying 10 seconds after I spawned weather it be random bad luck or some guy with his MCG, and it only took a few seconds like I said. So your point is here on out invalid in every sense.


Ammo boxes are a good addition. It makes it so I dont have to run all the way back to the AMS/Terminal to get my ammo back. Now I can just back out of combat a ways and rearm. How is that ANY different then the HP/Armor system in PS1 right now. Its probably something you have to cert in to on top of that.

On the same note, I've stayed alive with 10 health and no armor left longer then in full armor and health before. This while sniping and counter sniping. No joke 8 minutes strait on a wall with zero armor (doesn't matter what kind, 1 shot kills you at full health without armor from a sniper rifle), dodging sniping and counter sniping enemies without really believing that this actually happened.

It seems like an SMG can kill a medium assault in two seconds if well-aimed.
It took maybe three direct hits (~2.5 seconds) with the most powerful close combat weapon in the game (Jackhammer) OR MORE to kill someone in reinforced armor.


.5 to 1 second actually. Jackhammer did enough damage to destroy armor and leave a Rexo with something like 75 health and 20-50 armor left (from 100/200). Second shot killed. Refire rate of .5 seconds means the first shot is free, the 1 second was for those who popped up Pshield or hit their medkit. Either way death followed quickly.

I may have that wrong, it might be 1 second flat with or without medkits (shot>.5 refire>shot>.5 refire>shot). I believe I tested it and realized wasting the time to hit a medkit was just as pointless against a JH as it was while sniping. Took a long time to break the habit of wasting a kit after getting hit by either. Meanwhile it was very useful against an MCG or Lasher or virtually any other weapon, except scattermax and Magscatter thingie.

Not to mention the other horrible ways of fast death. Flail rounds, OSes, snipers hitting you and inconvenient times, being run over by a tank, Plasma melting you to the ground...

Naw, your wrong. While any one weapon takes it's time to kill you, there were almost always more then one aiming at you.

I use to know a site the listed all the TTKs against every infantry. Even TTKs against vehicles (with and without shield benefit).

[Ruwyn]

Lol at the person complaining about dying too fast in PS1 and then complaining about running out of ammo and running back to an AMS.

1. If you are dying too fast, you should not be out of ammo.
2. If you are running out of ammo, you are not dying fast.


Anyways... no to ammo drops. yes to bag drops.

[That one noob]

I recently played Payday: The Heist, and I think the way they implement ammo refills is actually pretty balanced. The way they made it is that
1.) There is a limited amount of ammo the players can scrounge out of the bag.(It's pooled too)
2.) The players actually have to interact with ammo bag in order to refill ammo and
3.) The players have to take time refilling their ammo before returning to the fight.

What do you guys think of this if you can take this from my jumbled words?

[Marinealver]

I had a similar concern, so I suggested making it a Command Ability, usable by a squad leader. They would not toss it out, but call it in. However, this creates another issue in that even a MAX could call for it's own ammo.

I would love to see more squad leader and command functions. The platoon feature needs to be added in as with 100 of players you definatly going to need some form of empire hiarchy.

[kaffis]

I would love to see more squad leader and command functions. The platoon feature needs to be added in as with 100 of players you definatly going to need some form of empire hiarchy.
Missions replace the need for platoons. You don't issue commands to 100 players, you and your fellow commanders cooperate to issue half a dozen missions, which a squad or two each enlist to accomplish.

[Figment]

I'm being exactly that?

Acting obtrusive (by telling people to wait for beta).

It's more fair to say that when more people get to play it they will have more feedback than "Absolutely not changing ever".

It's not more fair, it'll be too late to be fair. It'll be great if we could have 50 different mechanics tested to pick the right one, but we can't.

[Figment]

I recently played Payday: The Heist, and I think the way they implement ammo refills is actually pretty balanced. The way they made it is that
1.) There is a limited amount of ammo the players can scrounge out of the bag.(It's pooled too)
2.) The players actually have to interact with ammo bag in order to refill ammo and
3.) The players have to take time refilling their ammo before returning to the fight.

What do you guys think of this if you can take this from my jumbled words?

Still say if you drop ammo, you should lose ammo yourself.

[Pollo Jack]

If the ammo drop is given to the HA, Engi, or Medic then most indoor combat will mimic PS where agile was usable but REXO was equipped when available. Jump jets are useless when there is a ceiling unless the netcode is ass and you have VS MAX units going through the ceiling.

I personally prefer having to manage inventory, it gave me a cozy feeling knowing I planned and spaced my inventory perfectly.

If they stick with no inventory a two sided solution may work. Giving HA ammo and giving Engi the ability to build a dispenser. An additional point to defend like in TF2.

O, and here is something to speculate. If not limited properly a squad could do a gen hold almost indefinitely with ammo drop boxes.

[Ruwyn]

Missions replace the need for platoons. You don't issue commands to 100 players, you and your fellow commanders cooperate to issue half a dozen missions, which a squad or two each enlist to accomplish.

Can't wait to see how the mission system is completely ignored by outfits that can just coordinate things properly. People are gonna set up missions for pug squads and when they get there they are gonna find that it was already done by a group that was on the ball and knows how to function in a massive area.

[Mechzz]

....they are gonna find that it was already done by a group that was on the ball and knows how to function in a massive area.

Ha! That made me think! Have they/will they programme the capture mechanic so that ONLY someone who has ACCEPTED the mission can initiate the capture?

in other words, will we only be able to do what has been asked for in the mission list and then only if we accepted it?

[kaffis]

Ha! That made me think! Have they/will they programme the capture mechanic so that ONLY someone who has ACCEPTED the mission can initiate the capture?

in other words, will we only be able to do what has been asked for in the mission list and then only if we accepted it?
My guess is that you can do things "off-mission," but people who accepted the mission won't arrive to find it already done -- their mission will update as anybody completes the objectives, so they can adjust their targets (whether by reorienting to the next objective, or dropping the mission for a new one).

The more interesting question, IMO, is how they'll handle credit for completion. It can't be solely based on actually being present, as that devalues support roles. At the same time, I don't want people accepting missions for objectives they know to be nearly completed, just to get credit from half a continent away, etc.

[Mechzz]

The more interesting question, IMO, is how they'll handle credit for completion. It can't be solely based on actually being present, as that devalues support roles. At the same time, I don't want people accepting missions for objectives they know to be nearly completed, just to get credit from half a continent away, etc.

Credit completion, imo, will be based primarily on being actually present when the capture goes through, or based on a measure of how long the player was in the vicinity from the point the capture started if you want to avoid the "late-joiner" scenario you mention.

Squad experience will route xp to the support players who were busy behind the scenes, won't it?

[Gonefshn]

My vote goes to an ammo drop that can be picked up by one player. A Light Assault drops the pack, someone picks it up and gets limited ammo for their main gun and pistol. this way it's not an endless ammo pool and keeps it based on teamwork. Also only 1 or 2 per life. That is my vote.

[kaffis]

Credit completion, imo, will be based primarily on being actually present when the capture goes through, or based on a measure of how long the player was in the vicinity from the point the capture started if you want to avoid the "late-joiner" scenario you mention.

Squad experience will route xp to the support players who were busy behind the scenes, won't it?
That's certainly one way it could work, yes. As I said, I'm interested to see how they decide to do it.

Particularly since my impression has been that "capture the facility" is only one of a vast array of supported mission objectives. Higby was talking up the mission system and implying that there was FAR more granularity than that, down to things like taking out terminals or maybe even killing troublesome vehicles.

[evansra]

i dont mind the idea but i hope its a limited resuply amount and only a small number of packs. otherwise would make a strong gen hold (10-20 ppl) able to survive off 1 ammo pack from 1 light assault indefinatly. could imagine light assaults running around throwing ammo packs by all the snipers and AV spamers :P i think overall as long as its not infinite ammo per pack or infinite packs it will be a good tactical element to the game.

[kaffis]

Evansra, I'll give you 10:1 odds that ammo packs will be on a recharge timer, no matter what class gets them.

[Talek Krell]

Evansra, I'll give you 10:1 odds that ammo packs will be on a recharge timer, no matter what class gets them.In the alpha demo he was only carrying one, which he seemed to expend upon placing it. As far as I could tell he was not able to simply pull another out of the ammo crate either. And you bet your ass I watched that part a couple of times. ;)

That's all alpha footage, of course.

[dotcom]

Here is my idea after reading most of this thread on the "unlimited ammo box." Make the ammo box where its own inventory where you fill it with certain kind of ammo like primary ammo, secondary ammo, gernades, max ammo, mines, etc... pretty much whatever you want. Once the ammo box is filled, you put it in your main inventory where it takes up space like in the orginal PlanetSide when you filled your inventory up. Once the ammo box is empty, you have to go fill it back up. Understand what Iam saying ?:p

[Machine]

id rather see inventory for ammo and no ammo drops. some modern elements and the fact that damn im miles from base and i have no ammo... wow i better start my ass running.

[Brusi]

Just throwing this out there into this thread... as it seems pretty relevant.

http://www.planetside-universe.com/showthread.php?t=40813

[MercDT]

Okay, I'm fine ammo boxes. However I am definitely NOT fine with light assaults carrying ammo packs since it doesn't makes sense( I'm light, nimble, can fly, and DROP ammo packs! ). Sure! They can somehow pull it with magical nanites but it would best to give ammo boxes to SUPPORT classes.

However I think what would be somewhat interesting to see is the ability to give out ammunition to your buddies at the cost of your ammo pool. It would like in the ARMA games, you can drop a magazine but it can only be used if the rifle matches the specifications of that magazine/clip/ammo/etc.

As usual, alpha is alpha.

[Brusi]

That is like the suggestion i made in the thread "Ammo Sharing"... linkded in the post above yours... have a look :)

[Corax]

Heh, The light Assault class is perfect for getting the ammo boxes. Just think, you can literally have an air supply drop now.

As for the mechanics behind it. I highly doubt that it will be "infinite ammo for everybody".

More likely then not the pack will be a 1 use item.
Once you toss it on the ground, it has a limited amount of ammo it can dish out. E: 20 full ammo refills for the first 20 nearby. Or it carries 20 Clips. Etc etc.
and/or
It has a set time frame that once up it deconstructs after say... 5 minutes.

I highly doubt the devs would not have the foresight to prevent something like "infinite ammo all the time" from happening.

Its actually fiarly balanced overall.
Infiltrators can go invisible but have 0 armor, has sniper and shotguns.
Light Assault has Ammo Drop and jumpacks (grants access to areas other classes will never be able to reach) but has light weapons.
Engy repairs/builds stuff and has medium weapons.
Medic heals and rezs people and has medium weapons.
HA has has a Shield Booster and heavy weaponry
MAX has awesome weapons for any role, armor, and special abilities, but are slow turning.

It all compliments and balances each other out in the infantry categories nicely.

[kaffis]

it would best to give ammo boxes to SUPPORT classes.
Why can't Light Assault *be* a support class? Or, more aptly, have a support role?

If they have no role other than assault, then in areas where the jump pack isn't as useful, they get overshadowed completely by Heavy Assault. Ammo drops help ensure they fill a need even when there isn't the options for verticality or a need for flanking fire.

It's really over-simplistic to say "these are support classes, and these aren't." The Engineer can set up what sounds like a pretty formidable turret. Is that in line for a "support class"? It doesn't matter -- if we don't label things as support and not-support, then all it matters is that Engineers have support roles and bad-ass roles. Likewise, Light Assault.

[MrBloodworth]

No. It's because it waters down game play. It should be a terminal, that engineers deploy. Not a box that someone walks over. This isn't a session based shooter.

Putting it back to Towers, Terminals, AMS like terminals and Engi deployed Terms ( like the ageis shield ) brings back logistics and denial back into the game. It makes those sub-goals viable, and conforms more to a War game. Those assets need to be protected, or discovered and removed depending on what side you are on.

Having someone poop out a box every 5 seconds removes all that.


http://wiki.planetsidesyndicate.com/images/4/4b/AegisAmmo.jpg

http://wiki.planetsidesyndicate.com/images/f/f9/AegisInfo.jpg


That's why.

[Aurmanite]

Because in war, people carrying extra ammo don't exist! :rolleyes:

[The Kush]

Regarding making combat more complex I might have spoke too soon. I mean they also have sprint and the light assault has a jetpack greatly increasing choices. Increasing it can be done in a lot of ways. One of them is deployables for defense and countermeasures. Simple stuff (prepare for game references) like short deployable shields that you can pass through but can block bullets (BF2142), momentary armor bonuses when you reveal yourself to enemies (Crysis), shield bubbles for defending groups (Halo), armor lock for taking an attempted hit and run (Halo), anti-grenade deployable, then on the offensive style complex fire modes (http://www.planetside-universe.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36593). Stuff like single, triple-shot, burst, auto for weapons with varying bonuses go a long way for choices and tactics. (Though, it's easily argued that role overlap for weapons becomes a problem). Then you have squad abilities. I'm a huge fan of FPS+RPG games (think Bioshock etc). So having abilities for classes like a medic ability of "Sacrifice" that discharges a player's shield and recharges all neighboring shields. Basically things that a player can do along with their weapons in the middle of a battle quickly that could mean life or death for themselves or others. The idea of "I would have lived if I'd've done X" is important to me. Taking this to the extreme results in abilities described in this thread (http://www.planetside-universe.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37211). Including defensive countermeasures for catching/redirecting grenades/rockets/tank shells, blocking bullets at the cost of not shooting, converting a player's shields into health as a medic AOE for friendlies. (Never been a fan of non-defensive abilities. Guns are good for that). As mentioned these go for far away to give a player possibly dozens of choices increasing the skill of the gameplay. It's not about who shot first. It's about "oh his teammate transferred his shields to the person I was about to kill and then his other teammate killed me". Complexity and interactions you don't find in other games. (Unless it's like a lame TF2 medic. More of a battle-medic who assists while fighting).

(Also if anyone is curious. I've only played the first Halo for PC so I'm going off videos).


It's the exact implementation I wanted for it. I'm glad they went with that longer delay.

NO
PS2 is already "pushing my buttons" by making the game like CoD and BF3. We dont need Halo added into the equation or any other game for that matter. I liked Planetside because it WAS PLANETSIDE. Not Battle the Call of Halo. Keep the game original that is what made it great. Obviously some of these features had to be added in to appeal to a broader audience, but there is a point that you have to draw the line and as a veteran who has been playing since 2004, I would not play the game if any of these features were added. (besides maybe the varied burst option which I believe they might have talked about)