Concerns with squad spawning and Light Assault

[Nick]

Hi all. As you know, squad spawning is now part of the game. However, I do believe there a number of abuses and imbalance with the proposed system.

Currently, a Commander with the proper certification is able to have his squad spawn on him. However, the Light Assault class adds a whole new dynamic with Jump Jets, allowing them to get into interesting and potentially abusive places for squad spawning. A Light Assault who is also a Commander can circumvent much of the base's obstacles, and get into a good spot where squad spawning would be quite strong. For example, getting into a spot where you can then spawn in a ton of MAX's which could quickly swing the tide of battle.

I think this form of squad spawning kind of cheapens the experience of a good fight. There's only a few solutions I thought of.

-Have squad spawn be from an Engineer deployable, so it can't be placed in abusive locations by a Light Assault commander (best idea I could think of)
-Making MAX's unable to squad spawn (kinda dumb restriction, doesn't make sense)
-Requiring Commanders to carry some new kind of the CUD that Light Assault isn't able to carry (doesn't really make sense either)

Maybe I'm reading to much into this but it seems like there definitely could be some problems with the current implementation for squad spawning.

What are your guys thoughts and opinions?

[Bags]

>A ton of maxes

If you spend a lot of time spawning them up high, I don't see why they don't deserve this. I'm sure someone would notice drop pods raining down every few moments.

Or they could just make it so drop pods/squad spawning cannot be used on top of or inside of buildings.

[EVILPIG]

Squad spawning will be drop pods. There is no where a jump pack can get that a drop pod could not. It will simply be a matter of where they allow drop pods to land, which will probably not be on buildings.

[Malorn]

This isn't really any different than a squad that drops in from a galaxy.

The bases are open, so if a squad was on top of a roof they'd be sitting ducks for aircraft.

If a squad leader is a light assault and he runs off and dies trying to get up some place then the medics can't reach him.

And last drop pods give away position of the squad leader. And since they come from the sky I don't think it'll be too effective if the squad leader isn't under the open sky.

[Zenben]

I don't see how this is any different than a cloaker in PS1 sneaking/dropping to a tactically advantageous spot and placing a router pad. As a matter of fact, the router was more dangerous, because it wasn't limited just to your squad.

[Erendil]

I'm not too worried. In addition to what others have said, the drop pod mechanic will give defenders enough of a warning that they will probably be ready for the droppers once they emerge from said pods. Most likely someone will notice the pods and will sound out the alarm much like they did for Mossie hotdroppers in PS1.

Lastly, even if they could land directly on top of a base, if it's heavily contended there will be several hundred defenders inside. One squad of MAXes simply isn't going to be much of a threat when they're outnumbered by up to 50:1. A single squad most likely won't have the influence on the battlefield that it did in PS1.

[Biohazard]

I can see it now, drop pods rolling off the roofs of buildings :lol:

[NewSith]

A lib will get the job done.

[Biohazard]

A lib will get the job done.

I was thinking ES fighter, but would the base shield get in the way? (Assuming the attackers have not brought it down)

[Skepsiis]

I dont think this will be much of a problem tbh and if somebody pulls this off isnt that a good move on their part?

But possible solutions would be to have:

The SL needs to actively deploy something or activate an ability that takes time to complete and draws attention, like a shaft of light into the sky. This gives defenders a chance to react and stop it before it happens.

Have a cooldown after each individual spawn so it takes a while to deploy a full squad.

Limit locations where it is possible

Limit the types of classes and/or possibly equipment that people spawning can select based on the SL's loadout - as in max units can only spawn on a max SL, or perhaps nobody can come with a heavy assault weapon if the SL is light assault

[NewSith]

I was thinking ES fighter, but would the base shield get in the way? (Assuming the attackers have not brought it down)

Defenders using the "exploit" (which is actually not an exploit in any way) will eventually get sniped.
Attackers using the "exploit" will either get down because the fight moves indoors or get bombed/fighter'd.

Don't forget that you can't spawn in through ceilings. I believe that also applies to the base shield.

[Shade Millith]

The solution to this is really simple. No Drop Pods within a certain range of the base. Exactly as PS1 had it.

[Atheosim]

You know what is an even easier solution? Make the squad spawning ability a backpack. Can't wear a jetpack and a backpack at the same time can you?

[Biohazard]

You know what is an even easier solution? Make the squad spawning ability a backpack. Can't wear a jetpack and a backpack at the same time can you?

We have a winner!

[Stardouser]

I really don't see the problem with allowing squad spawning combined with whatever tools a player gets. However, I have to ask - this is squad leader only spawning, right?

[Atheosim]

I really don't see the problem with allowing squad spawning combined with whatever tools a player gets. However, I have to ask - this is squad leader only spawning, right?

Two restrictions- only squad leaders and only squad leaders that have SPECIALIZED in the squad leader cert tree. I think that involves giving up the ability to cert some other things. So this won't exactly be an ability every tom, dick, jane, janus, harry, fucktwat and dickweed will be rolling around with.

[Stardouser]

Two restrictions- only squad leaders and only squad leaders that have SPECIALIZED in the squad leader cert tree. I think that involves giving up the ability to cert some other things. So this won't exactly be an ability every tom, dick, jane, janus, harry, fucktwat and dickweed will be rolling around with.

That's balanced I think, even if they can get up to high areas. This is a battle we fought in BF3 and lost, they allow squads to respawn on any player.

Curious...SL can't respawn on platoon leader or anything like that, can they?

[Atheosim]

That's balanced I think, even if they can get up to high areas. This is a battle we fought in BF3 and lost, they allow squads to respawn on any player.

Curious...SL can't respawn on platoon leader or anything like that, can they?

Currently platoons do not exist in the game iirc. Will most likely be added later.

[StumpyTheOzzie]

Is everybody 100% sure that you can be a commander AND light assault at the same time? Please correct me if I'm wrong. Maybe commander is its own class like medic or engineer.

That actually makes sense to me.

[Nick]

Is everybody 100% sure that you can be a commander AND light assault at the same time? Please correct me if I'm wrong. Maybe commander is its own class like medic or engineer.

That actually makes sense to me.

Commander is not a class, but a seperate advancement tree like Vehicles etc.

[NCLynx]

Everyone is so worried about have commanders use squad spawning while in the courtyard of a base. I feel like one of the limitations of squad spawning will be that exactly that can't happen. You couldn't hot drop into the SOI of an enemy base in the original.

I know this is PS2 and not PS1, but still. Also if this isn't already the case I feel like Squad Spawning will be tooled this way eventually in beta.

[ratfusion]

I like the idea of light assault being able to share their mobility with the team, and it requires teamwork and tactics. Why arbitrarily restrict this before we see if it adds a fun new dimension to battle?

I really like squad spawning in the BF series, that mechanic does more to encourage teamwork in pug games then anything else.

I'd also be happy to see an engineer deployable spawn tube open to squadmates/platoon.

[StumpyTheOzzie]

squad spawning probably has a cooldown from hell anyway and is a triggered use.

I very much doubt that it'll be like a mobile spawn point (from what i gather, this is the BF model)

But Engies should have a spawn point ability.

[NewSith]

People, light assault is not limited to one empire. What OP says here is just irrelevant...


EDIT: Also maxes were never intented to spawn on squad leaders, AFAIK. Same way you could never spawn a MAX on an AMS in the original game.

[StumpyTheOzzie]

:huh:

My old age and senility must have kicked in.
So what if Light Assault isn't restricted to one empire?
How does that make what the OP said irrelevant?

[EVILoHOMER]

I personally don't like it as in BF you'll be fighting someone and all of a sudden 2 more people spawn and you die, it's dumb. Just have to wait and see how it works in Planetside 2 though, not going to ask them to remove it until I see how it plays out.

[Skitrel]

I personally don't like it as in BF you'll be fighting someone and all of a sudden 2 more people spawn and you die, it's dumb. Just have to wait and see how it works in Planetside 2 though, not going to ask them to remove it until I see how it plays out.

They're going to be drop pods, so you're not just going to see 2 people magically appear.

Everyone is so worried about have commanders use squad spawning while in the courtyard of a base. I feel like one of the limitations of squad spawning will be that exactly that can't happen. You couldn't hot drop into the SOI of an enemy base in the original.

I know this is PS2 and not PS1, but still. Also if this isn't already the case I feel like Squad Spawning will be tooled this way eventually in beta.

This is exactly right. Higby has mentioned 45 second spawns for squad spawns whereas other things won't be.

Everyone needs to shut the hell up complaining about new features until they've actually given said new features a chance. There is simply no way we can know how half the new ideas that have occurred in gaming since nigh on 10 years ago. Wait til we see them in game, wait til we know how they're going to work, then they can be tweaked and changed.

[Redshift]

legitimate tactic is legitimate

[Nick]

People, light assault is not limited to one empire. What OP says here is just irrelevant...


EDIT: Also maxes were never intented to spawn on squad leaders, AFAIK. Same way you could never spawn a MAX on an AMS in the original game.

How is it irrelevant? It doesn't matter if all empires have it if the mechanic is dumb and ruins fights. It's obviously unfair for the defender if the problems arise as I stated.

Your point makes no sense at all.

If you float in like in BF3 Spawn beacon style then it will be fine, which I assume the Planetside 2 drop pod mechanic is inspired by..

[Kipper]

I enjoyed this in BF2142 where it was a deployable asset, and you could see drop pods coming in which allowed you to roughtly locate an enemy beacon, and made you want to fight your way to it so that you could liberally apply C4.

Destroying enemy spawn beacons should be worth some decent XP.

[Coreldan]

I enjoyed this in BF2142 where it was a deployable asset, and you could see drop pods coming in which allowed you to roughtly locate an enemy beacon, and made you want to fight your way to it so that you could liberally apply C4.

Destroying enemy spawn beacons should be worth some decent XP.

"Destroyed enemy equipment, 20 points" BF3 style, FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU I get more from one heal tick >.< :D

[Aurmanite]

legitimate tactic is legitimate

Excellent post is excellent.

[kaffis]

There's a lot of assumption here.

The biggest one is that "spawning a whole squad" will be a "quick" affair.

If a squad commander wants to get into an abusive position and spawn one MAX at a time over the course of the next 5 minutes (assuming a 30 second squad spawning cooldown, which I don't think is an unreasonable assumption -- if anything, I suspect that's a generous one), and nobody notices? More power to him. By the time he's got his whole squad of unsupported (no engineer!) MAXes up there, the fight's probably move elsewhere, anyways.

[NewSith]

How is it irrelevant? It doesn't matter if all empires have it if the mechanic is dumb and ruins fights. It's obviously unfair for the defender if the problems arise as I stated.

Your point makes no sense at all.

If you float in like in BF3 Spawn beacon style then it will be fine, which I assume the Planetside 2 drop pod mechanic is inspired by..

Search the forums about what we know so far. For starters squad spawning is going to have a timer.

[ThGlump]

All that thinking of spawning on squad leader and limiting squad leader so he dont abuse that. It was stated that if squad spawning will be certed high then you can spawn on any squad member. So unless you kill every last one drop pods will rain from sky.

[Marinealver]

I don't see how this is any different than a cloaker in PS1 sneaking/dropping to a tactically advantageous spot and placing a router pad. As a matter of fact, the router was more dangerous, because it wasn't limited just to your squad.

Those were actually the hardest to do. I seen more routerss get OSED than AMSes. Especially around interfarms. (okay mabey an exageration but they were definatly #2 especailly if they were parked near towers)

But routers were vunerible also odds are more likely than not you had to drive the router yourself. So you cold not say hop in a mossie and then bail out over the roof without loosing ownership of your router thus deactivating your telepad.

With the Light Assault Squad Commander squad spawn ability, you can jump and then act as the spawn point all by yourself.