n00b tube

[Dreamcast]

I just saw that grenade launcher pic...I was wondering with the faster TTK i saw from the video, are grenade launchers gonna be one hit kill or very close to it?

I really hope they arn't one hit kill or do massive damage to troops(high vehicle damage is ok).....and have a good amount of time to reload so they won't be fast to reload and spam.

[JPalmer]

Its a grenade it will do good damage against others. Don't expect to be able to carry around more than three though. If you see them incoming take shelter.

[Furber]

I'd like it if they were like the Thumper from ps1. It was good for firing into groups of enemies because the AoE, but up close the TTK was just too slow to fight against most other infantry guns (MA and HA).

[kaffis]

I'd like it if they were like the Thumper from ps1. It was good for firing into groups of enemies because the AoE, but up close the TTK was just too slow to fight against most other infantry guns (MA and HA).
This. Maybe a little faster than the Thumper was.

In any event, nobody complained that the Punisher was too powerful because it had an underslung grenade launcher to "speed up" the TTK. That's because Planetside values grenades more for spreading damage around clumps of targets, rather than offering overwhelming burst damage to a single target. Science fiction grenades.

[Biohazard]

(high vehicle damage is ok)

NO IT IS NOT! This would lessen the role of AV weapons, and the instant I take a tank out every guy will start lobbing grenades at me, moderate vehicle damage is ok. Besides grenades are antipersonnel weapons...

I don't think noobtubing will be an issue. I hope to have something similar underneath my pulsar, I think it would be practical to save its ammo for crowded halls, and heavy armor (rexos, MAXs, and vehicles) rather than to waste it on random infantry.

[Vectorian]

That's what I was going to say more useful for taking down MAX or Rexos.

[CutterJohn]

Could be more powerful. Thats one of the features of the non customizable inventory.. Balance with ammo limitations can actually be meaningful. PS1 balanced grenades they way it did because you could fill your inventory full of them. In PS2, you cannot do that, and they can be made significantly more powerful because of this. Maybe not one shot, but damned close.

[headcrab13]

Its a grenade it will do good damage against others. Don't expect to be able to carry around more than three though. If you see them incoming take shelter.

Whew. Thank goodness people will only have three grenades.

Let's see, 3 x 666 players x 2 enemy factions = 3996 incoming grenades.

Sweet, I should only have to take shelter for 45 minutes before charging back into the fray!

[Rbstr]

Ammo limitations plus the fact that the AV weapons seem to be limited to the HA class could very well mean that the under-slung launcher holds a lot of importance against maxes. Especially indoors or in tighter quarters where the HA dude would probably like to go for the hip-slung rotary gun-of-doom.



Let's see, 3 x 666 players x 2 enemy factions = 3996 incoming grenades.
Yeah because everyone on the field will be in the same spot shooting grenades at the same time. Grow up and find a real argument. "e'ry body gone shoot me at once" can apply to any gun in the game, the result is always the same.

[Destroyeron]

I'd like it if they were like the Thumper from ps1. It was good for firing into groups of enemies because the AoE, but up close the TTK was just too slow to fight against most other infantry guns (MA and HA).

I hope the thumper is revived. Love that gun.

[headcrab13]

Yeah because everyone on the field will be in the same spot shooting grenades at the same time. Grow up and find a real argument.

Haha, Rbstr you noob :P You're so easy to troll.

Obviously 4000 grenades is an exaggeration, but you see my point. Just because each person will be limited to a few grenades doesn't mean that one-shot explosives won't be a pain in the ass when you have two squads stacked up and firing at a bottleneck.

[Graywolves]

I believe the grenade launcher attachment is to keep you from feeling helpless against MAX's or Vehicles because you are a certain class.


I doubt anyone who's actually trying to make good game would put in some kind of an insta-gib noob-tube.

[NewSith]

I doubt anyone who's actually trying to make good game would put in some kind of an insta-gib noob-tube.

There's so much philosophy in this statement, I'm not even sure you saw it yourself when posting it... =P

[Metalsheep]

Yeah because everyone on the field will be in the same spot shooting grenades at the same time. Grow up and find a real argument. "e'ry body gone shoot me at once" can apply to any gun in the game, the result is always the same.

Have you ever Played Planetside? This is exactly what will happen when there is a corridor, bottleneck, defensive position or stairwell.

Or if the grenades work like other shooters or Halo, the first thing you do when you see an enemy is chuck a 'nade at him, or throw them randomly in the distance to get a lucky kill. I hope infantry grenades are about the same strength they were in Planetside. I felt they were pretty balanced aside from the general spam they generated during fights.

[SKYeXile]

Have you ever Played Planetside? This is exactly what will happen when there is a corridor, bottleneck, defensive position or stairwell.

Or if the grenades work like other shooters or Halo, the first thing you do when you see an enemy is chuck a 'nade at him, or throw them randomly in the distance to get a lucky kill. I hope infantry grenades are about the same strength they were in Planetside. I felt they were pretty balanced aside from the general spam they generated during fights.

let the zerg get busted by the zerg busting weapons if they plan to fill a corridor.

[SniperSteve]

I'd like it if they were like the Thumper from ps1. It was good for firing into groups of enemies because the AoE, but up close the TTK was just too slow to fight against most other infantry guns (MA and HA).

Agree.

[Xyntech]

The bright light on the grenade and things like directional grenade indicators would make it harder to be caught by stray grenades. With PS2 having more pathways available than PS1's narrow corridors provided, I believe grenades will tend to function more as a "get the fuck out of that spot" tool than a means to kill the enemy more often than not. Toss a grenade to flush some people out of cover so you can get a shot at them, or use one to disrupt their defenses so that you can push into a room. That kind of reaction isn't going to happen unless grenades have a significant kick to them.

Maybe not OSK. I wouldn't mind seeing something like a grenade that goes off literally right next to you being able to kill a cloaker in one shot, almost kill a full health agile/medic/engi, and bring a heavy assault down to either just above or just below half health. Mind you, that's point blank. Maybe if it were 5 feet away a cloaker could just barely survive, while a heavy assault may still have a majority of their health left.

I'm pretty easy though. As long as a single ordinary grenade can't kill a heavy assault in one shot, I wouldn't really mind if it could one shot agiles etc.

Also, regular grenades should do next to nothing to MAXes, and even C4 shouldn't be that effective on them unless it is physically stuck to their bodies. Most splash damage as well. I'd like to see MAXes require direct hits to do much damage to them, because that would help them be an effective counter to defenders who were a little to overzealous with grenade spam.

[Metalsheep]

Also, regular grenades should do next to nothing to MAXes, and even C4 shouldn't be that effective on them unless it is physically stuck to their bodies. Most splash damage as well. I'd like to see MAXes require direct hits to do much damage to them, because that would help them be an effective counter to defenders who were a little to overzealous with grenade spam.

I agree. Most real grenades dont do damage via an explosion, they do most of their damage with Shrapnel flying through the air. A MAXs armor would easily stop shrapnel. Perhaps though, there could be a specific, Anti Armor grenade that had a smaller AoE but its explosion was far more powerful on a direct hit (Explode on Impact) against Armor. It would do impressive, but not instantly lethal damage to a MAX, and enough damage to a Tank that may make the Tank not want to stay in that spot anymore.

[Kran De Loy]

The bright light on the grenade and things like directional grenade indicators would make it harder to be caught by stray grenades. With PS2 having more pathways available than PS1's narrow corridors provided, I believe grenades will tend to function more as a "get the fuck out of that spot" tool than a means to kill the enemy more often than not. Toss a grenade to flush some people out of cover so you can get a shot at them, or use one to disrupt their defenses so that you can push into a room. That kind of reaction isn't going to happen unless grenades have a significant kick to them.

Maybe not OSK. I wouldn't mind seeing something like a grenade that goes off literally right next to you being able to kill a cloaker in one shot, almost kill a full health agile/medic/engi, and bring a heavy assault down to either just above or just below half health. Mind you, that's point blank. Maybe if it were 5 feet away a cloaker could just barely survive, while a heavy assault may still have a majority of their health left.

I'm pretty easy though. As long as a single ordinary grenade can't kill a heavy assault in one shot, I wouldn't really mind if it could one shot agiles etc.

Also, regular grenades should do next to nothing to MAXes, and even C4 shouldn't be that effective on them unless it is physically stuck to their bodies. Most splash damage as well. I'd like to see MAXes require direct hits to do much damage to them, because that would help them be an effective counter to defenders who were a little to overzealous with grenade spam.

Nuclear Dawn (I've been playing too much of ND these last few weeks oops: ) does this very well imo. It has 'nade signifiers and differentiates between friend and foe 'nade (red or white on the screen) (which should still matter in PS2 imo so you know if it's your side or their's that's tossing them). The 'nades will OSK any Stealth too close, as in within 7 feet. Support (Medic/Engi) will OSK if they're standing on it within 4 feet. Assault (Think middle weight HA) will only OSK to it if they've got it tucked up into their crotch when it goes off, usually takes one to go off real close by plus a few bullets on top of that to down an Assault.

Exo's (think full weight HA, maybe a bit heavier) take 3 Nades to down.

The part I like most tho is that grenades will detonate eachother. This is the important part that stops grenade spam because when the first grenade goes off it destroys the others near by it and they do no damage.

If SOE took that idea and instead made it so the grenades that go off prematurely from splash damage do only 1/4 or 1/3 damage people will be a lot less likely throw a dozen or so into a spot all at once. On top of that those Grenades will cost resources and people will actually be, dare I say it, tactical with choosing where and when to use grenades.

I agree. Most real grenades dont do damage via an explosion, they do most of their damage with Shrapnel flying through the air. A MAXs armor would easily stop shrapnel. Perhaps though, there could be a specific, Anti Armor grenade that had a smaller AoE but its explosion was far more powerful on a direct hit (Explode on Impact) against Armor. It would do impressive, but not instantly lethal damage to a MAX, and enough damage to a Tank that may make the Tank not want to stay in that spot anymore.

This is a good idea but it's one that's already been factored in, in a way. MAX's use vehicle armor for damage calculations. I'm sure there will be Anti-Personnel grenades and Anti-Vehicle Grenades just as you mentioned. I'm also sure that AV weapons will be what you use to take down a MAX, not the typical infantry loadout. Like having an assault rifle with an underslung grenade launcher that you load with AV stuff just in case you run into that MAX around the corner while you hold you're AP grenades to lob from your hip or in an invisible satchel.

[Knocky]

They have already announced that the Engineer class will get a bonus to their AV grenade damage.

Which makes then the ideal class to both repair their own MAXes and kill the enemy's.

Lets face it, the REXOs will be mostly carrying HA and not AV inside the bases.

[johnflenaly]

With the faster time to kill, its going to be even harder than ps1 to attack a defended bunker/building/hallway what ever. Fatal funnel and all that. I would actually want very lethal grenades to dig out defenders.

[Gonefshn]

I think you have to look at it from the perspective of using them not just being killed by them, as some of you have said. grenades need to perform and be useful. I think they need to be capable of killing lighter infantry when the grenade is close enough to the target.

I feel like this issue is less defined by how the grenades work and more by how many people will have. I think grenades are supposed to cost resources meaning you don't just have 1 or 2 every life with every class like you do in COD or BF3 or most shooters.

Make grenades something you need to spend your resources on and make them a choice not something that comes standard and I don't see the problem. They should be powerful, but you should be encouraged to use them sensibly and not toss them Halo style in every firefight because you can.

[Tasorin]

let the zerg get busted by the zerg busting weapons if they plan to fill a corridor.

+1

Choke points in the base tunnels and the Thumper or the Punisher with mixed nade ammo if your squad is set up to defend. About the only thing besides a skilled squad or being afk that would get you would be a full on MAX Crash to the generator.