My take on MAX abilities.

[Vectorian]

Some of these ideas I got from other people but tried to balance with other factions. Each MAX has a main ability and a Long Cooldown special.

VS:

Skiing ability - to quickly jet to the left, right, or forward and backwards and shoot at the same time has a bar that replenishes over time.

Coalescent Shot - Long cooldown High Damage similar to samus' shot from metroid lol, They charge up their gun for about 3-5 seconds and slows them down a bit while charging. Has a large plasma explosion when it impacts the target for high damage.

NC:

Shield - Keep their shield they have now has a bar that replenishes over time.

Sonic Punch - Long cooldown Blasts enemies in front of them outward does Medium damage maybe enemies can take fall damage as well added onto original damage lol.

TR:

Overdrive - Guns fire much faster their overdrive has a bar that will replenish over time.

Artillery Strike - Long Cooldown they hunker down and cant move while doing this and shoot rapid cluster bombs into the targeted location and it rains down shells that explode in the air and split into many bomblets good for taking out fortified positions.

[SniperSteve]

Sounds like you have been playing League of Legends too much. :P

[Vectorian]

Actually I've only played that a game a few times lol

[CutterJohn]

I rather wish the MAXs didn't have unique empire specific abilities. It was a very weird aspect of PS1 that existed nowhere else in the game, and I worry about such a thing being in PS2, or worse, expanded on to other infantry and vehicles.

[Metalsheep]

Samus has many different kind of Charged Shots... which kind are you thinking of specifically? Just a high damage shot, slower shot, does it leave burning damage? Or something like the Zero Laser that forces you to hold still, but hits and pierces things infront of you? (Metroid nerd) And as long as the VS dash is only usable once every long time, i could live with it. I'd hate to see MAXs like armored core ACs, dashing everywhere and dodging everything.

All MAXs already have a Melee, supposedly. The Sonic Punch seems a bit much to add on top of a Melee Oriented NC MAX.

And TR MAXs can already hunker down and unleash hell, what kind of Hell depends on what weapons they have equipped. Since TR is focused on speed, perhaps they could get an ability that speeds up their MAXs movement speed for a short period. Not quite like the VS dodge, just a general footspeed increase.

I cant think of a second ability for NC MAXs... the shield is pretty awesome all on its own.

[EVILPIG]

Some of these ideas I got from other people but tried to balance with other factions. Each MAX has a main ability and a Long Cooldown special.

VS:

Skiing ability - to quickly jet to the left, right, or forward and backwards and shoot at the same time has a bar that replenishes over time.

Coalescent Shot - Long cooldown High Damage similar to samus' shot from metroid lol, They charge up their gun for about 3-5 seconds and slows them down a bit while charging. Has a large plasma explosion when it impacts the target for high damage.

NC:

Shield - Keep their shield they have now has a bar that replenishes over time.

Sonic Punch - Long cooldown Blasts enemies in front of them outward does Medium damage maybe enemies can take fall damage as well added onto original damage lol.

TR:

Overdrive - Guns fire much faster their overdrive has a bar that will replenish over time.

Artillery Strike - Long Cooldown they hunker down and cant move while doing this and shoot rapid cluster bombs into the targeted location and it rains down shells that explode in the air and split into many bomblets good for taking out fortified positions.

Interesting. You have long range mega-shots for TR and VS, yet a punch for NC. lol

If my memory serves me right, there will be at least 2 empire specific abilities for each empire plus common pool abilities. VS will have an overdrive type ability and shields will be a common pool.

The skiing for VS could happen, as some of the team is playing Tribes and could draw influence. Don't know how well it would work or even if it would be balanced. I imagine just the ability to run will be a common pool ability now.

Of course, nothing you hear is gospel. When you hear about something at this stage of development, take it as, "That's what we're thinking about right now" instead of "That's how it will be live". It's more realistic and makes things that sound overpowered easier to swallow.

[Vectorian]

Samus has many different kind of Charged Shots... which kind are you thinking of specifically? Just a high damage shot, slower shot, does it leave burning damage? Or something like the Zero Laser that forces you to hold still, but hits and pierces things infront of you? (Metroid nerd) And as long as the VS dash is only usable once every long time, i could live with it. I'd hate to see MAXs like armored core ACs, dashing everywhere and dodging everything.

All MAXs already have a Melee, supposedly. The Sonic Punch seems a bit much to add on top of a Melee Oriented NC MAX.

And TR MAXs can already hunker down and unleash hell, what kind of Hell depends on what weapons they have equipped. Since TR is focused on speed, perhaps they could get an ability that speeds up their MAXs movement speed for a short period. Not quite like the VS dodge, just a general footspeed increase.

I cant think of a second ability for NC MAXs... the shield is pretty awesome all on its own.

In regards to the VS Samus shot ability - I was going for a shot that just explodes on impact that has some area of effect to it but long cooldown on it and you cannot move very fast while charging it up to fire it. No burn damage or anything like that prob would be to op.

In regards to the Skiing ability yes it would be very limited wouldn't be able to spam it as I mentioned there is a power consumption bar for each main ability. Example: you prob could only Ski 10-20 feet in a direction maybe twice back to back before the power would be drained and have to wait for it recharge and that would be depending if you used it to go 10-20 feet. They could balance it to Ski distance to power consumption cost. So people would have to choose how much to use and when. So no abusing it to keep doing it over and over again.

[Ceska]

From what they said so far :

TR : keep the anchor mode and get a charge mode

NC : shield and not revealed

VS : not revealed

[Tamas]

NC - Falcon punch?

[Vectorian]

Interesting. You have long range mega-shots for TR and VS, yet a punch for NC. lol

If my memory serves me right, there will be at least 2 empire specific abilities for each empire plus common pool abilities. VS will have an overdrive type ability and shields will be a common pool.

The skiing for VS could happen, as some of the team is playing Tribes and could draw influence. Don't know how well it would work or even if it would be balanced. I imagine just the ability to run will be a common pool ability now.

Of course, nothing you hear is gospel. When you hear about something at this stage of development, take it as, "That's what we're thinking about right now" instead of "That's how it will be live". It's more realistic and makes things that sound overpowered easier to swallow.

In regards to the NC punch ability it would prob have a bit of range on it but directly in front of the MAX maybe 15-20ft so you don't have to be point blank lol. Kind of like sending out a conal shockwave out of your fist lol and yes saying falcon punch while doing it would make it awesome. Also when they do it their suit lunges forward a little for the effect of its power.

[Pollo Jack]

I think we should stray from strong abilities balanced by lengthy cool downs. If Planet Side has taught us anything, that is a horrible way to balance. Since you can pull a MAX suit from a galaxy, grabbing it getting two or so kills then running back and changing class would be commonplace, especially since you don't have to cert max you can unlock it's abilities as you level other classes.

I have seen the skiing idea tossed around, and it is fine for tribes which is very quick pace but we had a similar event in Planet Side with surgiles. Not only was it so unbalanced they had to buff the REXO but they also went back and forced you to put your weapon away while surging eliminating speed and punch all together for infantry. I doubt the devs are even considering this just because of the nightmare of balancing it they had in the original.

[Vectorian]

I think we should stray from strong abilities balanced by lengthy cool downs. If Planet Side has taught us anything, that is a horrible way to balance. Since you can pull a MAX suit from a galaxy, grabbing it getting two or so kills then running back and changing class would be commonplace, especially since you don't have to cert max you can unlock it's abilities as you level other classes.

I have seen the skiing idea tossed around, and it is fine for tribes which is very quick pace but we had a similar event in Planet Side with surgiles. Not only was it so unbalanced they had to buff the REXO but they also went back and forced you to put your weapon away while surging eliminating speed and punch all together for infantry. I doubt the devs are even considering this just because of the nightmare of balancing it they had in the original.

Depends on what your take on a lengthy cooldown is I wouldn't consider anything between 30-60seconds a lengthy cooldown. That's just a smart way to make it so the ability cannot be spammed over and over again.

Also in regards to skiing in tribes your doing it 24/7 and that's cool and fun but I'm talking about a short burst just to avoid maybe one tank round shot at the max.

[Stardouser]

Do maxes have anything like the Tribes mortar gun, and should they?

Don't be fooled by the name, the Tribes fusion mortar is not, as far as I know, an indirect fire weapon.

[Vectorian]

I rather wish the MAXs didn't have unique empire specific abilities. It was a very weird aspect of PS1 that existed nowhere else in the game, and I worry about such a thing being in PS2, or worse, expanded on to other infantry and vehicles.

What would be the point of having different unique empires if none of them had unique weaponry or abilities. Seems like the game would be kind of stale to me if everything was common pool imo.

[Blackwolf]

Interesting. You have long range mega-shots for TR and VS, yet a punch for NC. lol

If my memory serves me right, there will be at least 2 empire specific abilities for each empire plus common pool abilities. VS will have an overdrive type ability and shields will be a common pool.

The skiing for VS could happen, as some of the team is playing Tribes and could draw influence. Don't know how well it would work or even if it would be balanced. I imagine just the ability to run will be a common pool ability now.

Of course, nothing you hear is gospel. When you hear about something at this stage of development, take it as, "That's what we're thinking about right now" instead of "That's how it will be live". It's more realistic and makes things that sound overpowered easier to swallow.

When I originally came up with skiing I mentioned that activating the ability would let you move omni-directionally without friction on the ground, as in hover. The idea also included it being a bit tougher to control since you wouldn't stop moving in direction X just by letting up on that key, you'd coast to a stop like an actual hover vehicle (regardless of the direction you turned) unless you put energy into the opposite direction or took off hover. Easily explained as a MAX suit being too small and complex to include inertial stabilizers that automatically do a job most scientists figured the soldier could damn well do himself.

This could be easy or tough to implement depending on the way the game is coded. I suspect that since they are using a physics engine, it would be fairly easy.

I also suggested that there not be a capacitor for the ability, being harder to control would balance it out IMO, and cause players to jump from hover to standing modes frequently, even in mid combat.

Also, for the OP, this forum isn't the "idea vault" forum. You really should have just posted your ideas there.

[WorldOfForms]

I hate to say it but skiing sounds like fun for the MAX user, but no fun for the opponent.

Anti-MAX weaponry will likely be similar to PS1: slow firing with limited ammo. This means that a MAX that can easily dodge your first shot will be like instant death and that's not fun.

PS1 VS MAXes could jump to dodge, but it was rather slow and predictable: they could only go in one direction so if you were smart you'd be ready for it.

Skiing, even if it could only be used once before a cooldown, would mean the MAX would basically have a free kill whenever its cooldown was ready.

The MAX is slow, but armored. Don't give it a dodge ability, thus negating its only weakness.

[Shlomoshun]

TR's lockdown was great indoors for base and tower defense, and NC's shields were good whenever. VS jets were definitely the weak link in terms of empire specific bonuses in PS1.

Sure, they were great for getting to the top of a tower, or jumping base walls when nobody was around, but in actual battle use, they put you on a fixed trajectory, making you a big skeet for everyone to shoot out of the air. I bet I was killed midair about 10x for everyone I was able to surprise and kill with the jets.

For the VS, they simply need to revise the jump jets to allow more horizontal and vertical control in order to make them useful in battle. If you could easily dodge while jumping, they would have been pretty useful in open ground battle. (or, if you want to abandon the jets entirely, give them a different bonus, but one that's useful in BATTLE, not useful for getting over walls when nobody is around.)

[Vectorian]

I hate to say it but skiing sounds like fun for the MAX user, but no fun for the opponent.

Anti-MAX weaponry will likely be similar to PS1: slow firing with limited ammo. This means that a MAX that can easily dodge your first shot will be like instant death and that's not fun.

PS1 VS MAXes could jump to dodge, but it was rather slow and predictable: they could only go in one direction so if you were smart you'd be ready for it.

Skiing, even if it could only be used once before a cooldown, would mean the MAX would basically have a free kill whenever its cooldown was ready.

The MAX is slow, but armored. Don't give it a dodge ability, thus negating its only weakness.

MAXs are inherently going to get more kills than other soldiers just because they are heavier armored. But they turn slow and the other empires will have abilities that will get them kills just as well. Like the NC MAX having a shield will allow to take more damage just as the VS MAX if it had an ability to ski every once in a while they both avoid direct damage. In the original PS I still downed many MAXs as long as you used strategy against them like strafing around them or phoenix or lancer from afar it wasn't hard to destroy them.

[Blackwolf]

I hate to say it but skiing sounds like fun for the MAX user, but no fun for the opponent.

Anti-MAX weaponry will likely be similar to PS1: slow firing with limited ammo. This means that a MAX that can easily dodge your first shot will be like instant death and that's not fun.

PS1 VS MAXes could jump to dodge, but it was rather slow and predictable: they could only go in one direction so if you were smart you'd be ready for it.

Skiing, even if it could only be used once before a cooldown, would mean the MAX would basically have a free kill whenever its cooldown was ready.

The MAX is slow, but armored. Don't give it a dodge ability, thus negating its only weakness.

Since skiing is my brainchild, I must defend.

I understand the concern but I really doubt the DEVs are going to limit you to 1 option for AV. I suspect that you'll have at least 2 options, and highly modable ones at that.

And if the VS had a skiing ability, it would be easy and fair to present TR and NC with mods that made countering that ability easy. Going up against the VS and plan on MAX hunting? Grab your modded striker.

One concern that I had in PS1 was that MAX suits were easy kills. You read me. Anyone with a deci could take a MAX suit out with impunity by popping in and out of cover. It destroyed the MAX concept of powerful but slow because it made them just slow. They were suppose to be superior indoor fighters and they were dumbed down to just walking walls of free exp.

And no I didn't pilot a MAX suit often. Like I said, they were easy to kill.

[Metalsheep]

Since skiing is my brainchild, I must defend.

I understand the concern but I really doubt the DEVs are going to limit you to 1 option for AV. I suspect that you'll have at least 2 options, and highly modable ones at that.

And if the VS had a skiing ability, it would be easy and fair to present TR and NC with mods that made countering that ability easy. Going up against the VS and plan on MAX hunting? Grab your modded striker.

One concern that I had in PS1 was that MAX suits were easy kills. You read me. Anyone with a deci could take a MAX suit out with impunity by popping in and out of cover. It destroyed the MAX concept of powerful but slow because it made them just slow. They were suppose to be superior indoor fighters and they were dumbed down to just walking walls of free exp.

And no I didn't pilot a MAX suit often. Like I said, they were easy to kill.

As a dedicated MAX user, i will have to say that you should never try to Solo in a MAX. They are quite easy to kill since everyone has AV now.

But they most certainly arent free XP if used properly and with great teamwork. I've held tower CCs with just me and a Rexo, or me and a MAX if im Rexoing it up against huge numbers of enemies untill we eaither get reinforcements or i run out of ammunition. (With a TR MAX, running out of Ammo is quite a feat) When a group of enemies comes running towards you with their HA out, the MAX jumps out and wipes the floor with them, when they run away and draw their AV weapons, the Rexo descends upon them with his HA and finishes the job. If a AV MAX comes rolling up, the Rexo takes him out while the MAX stays in cover.

A combined force of MAXs and even just ONE softie can be devestating and highly effective.

MAXs are like Tanks, they are powerful combatants but weak against AV weapons, and require constant support from Infantry to keep it safe and doing its job effectivly.

[Blackwolf]

As a dedicated MAX user, i will have to say that you should never try to Solo in a MAX. They are quite easy to kill since everyone has AV now.

But they most certainly arent free XP if used properly and with great teamwork. I've held tower CCs with just me and a Rexo, or me and a MAX if im Rexoing it up against huge numbers of enemies untill we eaither get reinforcements or i run out of ammunition. (With a TR MAX, running out of Ammo is quite a feat) When a group of enemies comes running towards you with their HA out, the MAX jumps out and wipes the floor with them, when they run away and draw their AV weapons, the Rexo descends upon them with his HA and finishes the job. If a AV MAX comes rolling up, the Rexo takes him out while the MAX stays in cover.

A combined force of MAXs and even just ONE softie can be devestating and highly effective.

MAXs are like Tanks, they are powerful combatants but weak against AV weapons, and require constant support from Infantry to keep it safe and doing its job effectivly.

All very true.

However you can't consider tactics, strategy, and skill when it comes to balancing ideas. Especially on paper.

For example in the above situation, my outfit would likely have charged with 1 or 2 AVs out and the rest with HA. It was a good strategy but using the same strategy against it, and adding superior numbers, inevitably over rules it.

Fortunately not a whole lot of people think that far ahead :D

The basic issue in PS1 was that MAX suits were made far to weak against AV. At one point in time it only took 1 mine or 2 deci shots. IMO it should have been geared more towards AP ammo then AV weapons. The VS' major advantage would have been easily countered with a simple 2 second pause when changing modes.

In the end gold ammo became virtually worthless since AV was made the dominant MAX killer.

[Metalsheep]

AP ammo was overall useless. a MAX could still outkill someone with AP bullets.

MAXs have this psychological effect on most players who carry both AV and HA, when they see a MAX, they instinctivly run away and draw their AV, we've all done it if we have an AV weapon with us. Thats when the Softie can be used to beat a group.

A coordinated group who has dedicated AV guys that always keep their decis out will beat a single MAX and softie, but its a proof-of-concept with MAX units.

Now, if you went up against an outfit who was rolling with two MAXs, one AI and one AV, suddenly their group becomes incredibly more powerful with just two MAXs. Even a single MAX can make a huge change in a group of players effectivness.

[Blackwolf]

AP ammo was overall useless. a MAX could still outkill someone with AP bullets.

MAXs have this psychological effect on most players who carry both AV and HA, when they see a MAX, they instinctivly run away and draw their AV, we've all done it if we have an AV weapon with us. Thats when the Softie can be used to beat a group.

A coordinated group who has dedicated AV guys that always keep their decis out will beat a single MAX and softie, but its a proof-of-concept with MAX units.

Now, if you went up against an outfit who was rolling with two MAXs, one AI and one AV, suddenly their group becomes incredibly more powerful with just two MAXs. Even a single MAX can make a huge change in a group of players effectivness.

Not really. There's a reason why we had 2, the AV would be ignored at first while the AI would have been first target.

AP could have been better suited for MAXes. I've seen how they balance the weapons vs targets and the methods used are very easy to change. Upping the AP damage to a degree that is threatening to the MAX suit while upping the damage mitigation it has against infantry would do the job perfectly.

And actually I have killed MAX suits using gold ammo in both an MCG and JH in stand up fights. Yes the MAX suit will, on paper, easily out kill infantry. This is the way it SHOULD be.

We could easily banter back and fourth about what strategy could counter what. The simple fact is MAX suits were easy to kill on their own, less easy when backed by infantry but still pretty easy, and had a number of limiting factors including mobility, inability to hack doors, no self repair, and the only healing they had was medkits.

MAX suits were walking sitting ducks who's offensive power was drastically exaggerated by people who never played them and didn't like being killed by them. Which pretty much describes any particular negative opinion about any aspect of PS1 that you can think of.

[WorldOfForms]

The main reason a lot of MAXes seemed like easy XP was because the playstyle was appealing to bad players. Don't have the chops to go toe to toe using HA or MA? Grab a MAX.

Playing a MAX well took smarts. I'm not the best or worst FPS player but I racked up some impressive kill streaks in MAXes. They were a well balanced part of PS, but their nature skewed the users toward the bad side, meaning they appeared underpowered a lot of the time.

[Metalsheep]

If your fighting another coordinated outfit, they'll target your AV first. But then thats getting into tactics.

The presence of properly supported MAXs can be a huge force multiplyer. But solo, they are easily destroyed, is the point.

I've only ever killed MAXs with gold ammo after they were wounded. Taking out 650 points of armor and his HP before he stomps all over you is quite a feat. Though an Agile/Surgile AP Jackhammer can wreck a MAX, i agree. But thats about the only situation Gold Ammo is worthwhile.

[Blackwolf]

If I remember the TTKs correctly, it was something like 5.5 seconds for a Jackhammer and 6.8 or so for a MCG. The Lasher's TTK was above 20 seconds btw.

It's amazing how quickly those seconds fly by when you engage though. And how easy it is to stay outta the MAX suit's fire, especially when you've got back up.

Hell I ran with a sniper outfit that regularly targeted MAX suits with as many as 6 snipers and killed them. Forget how many shots it actually takes from a BD though.

[Metalsheep]

50 Armor per BD shot, so 7 to break armor, then TWO more to kill, since it takes off 75HP, not including NC Shield, Pshield, Second Wind, or Medkits. So you need 9 to kill a MAX. Though back when Decis 2-shot MAXS, MAX units had 400 Armor, depends on when you used to fight them with AP rounds and Bolt Drivers.

I've been playing a MAX for a very long time, i suppose against your standard MAX nub tactics like JH rush would work. Against a Splat Max or Overdrived DC, you'd be toast most of the time. I was never a fan of the Quasar, myself.