Customization Woes

[LostAlgorithm]

Am I the only one who isn't really looking forward to super customization? Don't get me wrong, I like being able to work within each empires color palettes, but I can't help but think the camo patterns on the magriders in the pic below are just a bit ugly and feel out of place:

http://www.planetside-universe.com/media/album/mp52rz6sp6/20111115_4ec2bdb39bb6e.png

Same goes for the camo on this Terran Republic HA:

http://www.planetside-universe.com/media/album/mp52rz6sp6/20111122_4ecc20fa03674.jpg

I dunno, it just doesn't seem to work for me. Seems unappealing. Feels a bit tacked on just for the sake of having some sort of camo and not really fitting.

Am I alone in wondering if perhaps customization is going a bit too far?

[CutterJohn]

http://www.tf2wiki.net/w/images/thumb/7/7a/ToweringSoldier.png/541px-ToweringSoldier.png


No.. Camo patterns is not going to far. ;)


I'm not 100% sold on the camo for the mag, but it doesn't strike me as ridiculously out of place. The camo pattern on the HA is quite nice.

[NCLynx]

Am I the only one who isn't really looking forward to super customization. Don't get me wrong, I like being able to work within each empires color palettes, but I can't help but think the camo patterns on the magriders in the pic below are just a bit ugly and feel out of place:

http://www.planetside-universe.com/media/album/mp52rz6sp6/20111115_4ec2bdb39bb6e.png

Same goes for the camo on this Terran Republic HA:

http://www.planetside-universe.com/media/album/mp52rz6sp6/20111122_4ecc20fa03674.jpg

I dunno, it just doesn't seem to work for me. Seems unappealing. Feels a bit tacked on just for the sake of having some sort of camo and not really fitting.

Am I alone in wondering if perhaps customization is going a bit too far?

Yea you might be the only one who thinks it's going a bit to far. :D

We won't know the depth of the customization until we can actually play it though. Saying "no use worrying about it until then" would be stupid but until we can play it none of us can accurately judge it either.

[The Kush]

Ehhh this bothered me at first but now I don't mind. Idk I see where your coming from but I'm cool with it now.

[LostAlgorithm]

I'm not 100% sold on the camo for the mag, but it doesn't strike me as ridiculously out of place. The camo pattern on the HA is quite nice.

I dunno, the camo just looks busy and wrong to me I guess, especially on the Mags. I could see camo patterns using their empire color schemes as a basis, but the desert and forest camo are just gross looking to me in this setting and feel out of place in Planetside. I guess I just liked how in the original Planetside they didn't deviate from their empire's colors.

[Eyeklops]

That TR looks really cool IMO. VS tank camo shown is meh, I am sure they will have a pattern for everybody (they do want to sell them to you).

[CutterJohn]

I dunno, the camo just looks busy and wrong to me I guess, especially on the Mags. I could see camo patterns using their empire color schemes as a basis, but the desert and forest camo are just gross looking to me in this setting and feel out of place in Planetside. I guess I just liked how in the original Planetside they didn't deviate from their empire's colors.

Personal preference I guess. Can't please anyone. There are several assets I think are just ridiculous designs, like the Lib, VS max, and the ATV(not because its bad, but because I could go buy that exact thing today). Some people will love those camos.

[Eyeklops]

Personal preference I guess. Can't please anyone. There are several assets I think are just ridiculous designs, like the Lib, VS max, and the ATV(not because its bad, but because I could go buy that exact thing today). Some people will love those camos.

Have we seen the finished VS max yet? I am sure they will tone it down a bit from the concept art.

[LostAlgorithm]

Have we seen the finished VS max yet? I am sure they will tone it down a bit from the concept art.

Well, we do have this:

http://www.planetside-universe.com/media/album/mp52rz6sp6/20120310_4f5b9d044a62f.jpg

Looks fine to me.

[CutterJohn]

Looks fine to me.

And I disagree. See? Not everyone is going to love every aspect of the game. ;)

[LostAlgorithm]

And I disagree. See? Not everyone is going to love every aspect of the game. ;)

I know, but it at least feels like it's a part of the Planetside Universe, even if the design is one you or I don't like. Kind of like how I dislike the Terran stealth suit but feel it still fits.

Traditional camo schemes just don't feel like Planetside at all to me. Especially not desert camo mixed with the Vanu's purple and teal.

[MacXXcaM]

I am really looking forward to seeing camo patterns in-game since I hope it will have a relevant impact on tactical game play.

I for once regard Planetside as rather realistic war game (set in a future scifi world). So, if camo patterns work in today's military why shouldn't they on Auraxis?

Also I think it can really look cool. Imagine an outfit/squad that's entirely camouflaged and you can tell these guys belong together and kick ass. I'd like to see that.

[Sabot]

Simple case of "dun like it, dun use it" imo.

[headcrab13]

I personally think it's really cool that you can either choose to use an infiltration suit or a suitable camo pattern on heavier armor to achieve almost the same stealth effect.

Of course with camo your shadow and movement will betray you a little more often, but I still expect to see some awesome HA ambushes in the beta.

[ITOS]

I always wondered why VS would care about camouflage. Actually I find it funny how in many sci fi games (eg Crysis and Halo) military gear has these glowing bits on them. Not very practical. :S

[DayOne]

I always wondered why VS would care about camouflage. Actually I find it funny how in many sci fi games (eg Crysis and Halo) military gear has these glowing bits on them. Not very practical. :S

Things like this confuse me. It's like how in splinter cell Sam Fisher is somehow completely invisible even with the three bright green lamps stuck to his forehead.

[JHendy]

So, if camo patterns work in today's military why shouldn't they on Auraxis?

3D spotting.

[Sledgecrushr]

Well guys I was hoping this subject would come up. The outfit I am with is a warhammer 40k gaming community, and truthfully we intend on doing a slight rewrite of PS2 history and going with an alternate RP experience. But for immersion we are going to need some pretty incredible customisation. Im not talking adding a infrared heat seeking red dot sight on your sniper rifle either, we need skins.

[Pozidriv]

Well guys I was hoping this subject would come up. The outfit I am with is a warhammer 40k gaming community, and truthfully we intend on doing a slight rewrite of PS2 history and going with an alternate RP experience. But for immersion we are going to need some pretty incredible customisation. Im not talking adding a infrared heat seeking red dot sight on your sniper rifle either, we need skins.

This right here got me thinking... What about mercenary subfactions in PS2 as lore explanation for new skins for soldiers?

Tribes: Ascend had a new patch called, Raid and Pillage that added 2 new skins for a class called Raider.

This is how the old raider looks like

http://i.imgur.com/5N12l.png http://wiki.theexiled.pwnageservers.com/images/thumb/6/6c/TA_DS_Raider.png/250px-TA_DS_Raider.png

And here are the new skins that were added, the lad on the forefront is ye olde mercenary for hire and the guy on the back is more of a freelance hooligan.

http://i1-games.softpedia-static.com/screenshots/Tribes-Ascend-Raid-Pillage-Update-Trailer_1.jpg

Your thoughts about this type of customization?

[MacXXcaM]

3D spotting.

Hopefully it will not be too simple to spot someone so there's still a chance not to get noticed by wearing camo.

[Kipper]

Camo will be cosmetic only, because it will be for sale, and if it creates any significant advantage, then its pay to win.

Besides that, its a great item to sell - and it means we get to play what will be an awesome game for free (or at least on our own terms) and that is something to be supported imo.

And yeah, co-ordinated outfits with co-ordinated outfits (so to speak) will be sweet.

[Hamma]

Got to say I am not a huge fan of customization either in any game but alas these are the cards we are dealt in modern gaming. Is what it is ;)

As long as people can't buy the PWNSAUCE MKII ASSAULT RIFLE WITH RPG ATTACHMENT then I am ok with it.

[Mod]

Probably worth bearing in mind too, that the limited camo patterns we have seen so far are probably not final like almost everything else we have seen.

[RawketLawnchair]

They promised they wouldn't do that.

Also, those camo patterns will blend perfectly with the terrain they are meant to be used in. Plus, we haven't gotten in beta to test any of this stuff yet to give official feedback of what it looks like from your perspective in game.

They could even eventually take it out.

[Kipper]

Got to say I am not a huge fan of customization either in any game

I like to customise, but only where it makes sense. Same goes for product placement and advertising etc too. I don't think its such a sad state of affairs if it brings down the cost of buying games or playing online; or puts the spending on your terms at least.

It also helps provide some depth and uniqueness then that's a good thing. I might spend a little bit of cash on some cool looking camoflage, or scope for my gun - but I really don't want to see people running around in indian style feather head garments or dressed as a giant hot dog, at least not in PS2 anyway.

I used to play PotBS. That was good for the fact that you could design your own logos, but they had to be in keeping with the theme to get into the game.

[ThirdCross]

I personally don't like the camo patterns. They seem out of place for Planetside and clash with the faction colors. I'm fine most any other customization though as long as it fits Planetside's style. Think of how they did the armor system in halo reach. Link (http://www.youtube.com/embed/N3GG5Guc-Iw)

[Sledgecrushr]

Im willing to spend at least 20 dollars US for a Vanu skull to hang from my belt. The same for a skull faced helmet. Im not asking for for the BFG pwnser, we just want to achieve a certain look.

[RadarX]

Customization is truly about making a gaming experience your own. Customization will be as much about looks as it will be playstyle. Maybe you won't want the camo pattern, but a different type of scope. More options is never a bad thing!

[SniperSteve]

Red and Black. As long as everything I own/wear is Red and Black, I am happy.


Edit.. I think this post was the 100,000th post on the PS2 Discussion. :D

[Graywolves]

I love character customization, like appearance.

[PlaceboCyanide]

As long as it isn't lore/immersion breaking or unbalancing in a pay to win kind of fashion then I say sky's the limit. :D

[IHateMMOs]

Speaking of camo, will infiltrators have camo patterns? Seems illogical, since they're whole point is not to be seen. I think the TR HA would have looked better if they put the desert camo on his helmet too. But overall, I've never been a fan of camo. Especially in a game which has empires with their own color combinations. But hey, if you don't like it don't use it. Nothing says you do, and nothing forces other people not to.

[headcrab13]

As long as it isn't lore/immersion breaking or unbalancing in a pay to win kind of fashion then I say sky's the limit. :D

I agree, I don't want to see someone in rainbow camo and giant red clown shoes just because they wanted to stand out and had some extra station cash, but I feel that the devs have approached this very thoughtfully.

The camo we've seen thus far is quite appropriate for the environments and offers a great deal of customization while still maintaining empire themes. Depending on how easy it is to swap camo patterns that you've purchased, I expect to use it only when tactically necessary. Most of the time I plan to be rocking the good old red and black.

[kaffis]

The thing that bothers me about the camo is that it flies in the face of the "we want our distant units to be easily identifiable as friends or foes" of the empire color schemes. Sure, red, blue, and purple distinguish the empire well (assuming you're not colorblind to red, in which case the blue and purple can look pretty close), but that just goes out the window when all three put on their desert camo and go running around Indar.

[RoninAfro]

I think the silhouettes of the empire specific vehicles would be enough to distinguish them from one another. The non-ES stuff would be a simple fix, such as the targeting reticule changing to reflect when you're aiming at a friendly or having green names over friendly units.

[Sledgecrushr]

Lol, Im old and dont know how to imbed images yet but here is a link of a helmet I would like to buy in the cash shop. Something similar anyways http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/File:Raven_Guard_Chaplain_by_rctdelta20.jpg

[LostAlgorithm]

Lol, Im old and dont know how to imbed images yet but here is a link of a helmet I would like to buy in the cash shop. Something similar anyways http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/File:Raven_Guard_Chaplain_by_rctdelta20.jpg

No offense, but I really hope it doesn't get that customizable.

Much as I love 40k, I want things to stay distinctly Planetside in PS2. I don't want a bunch of random Space Marines running around.

[LostAlgorithm]

One thing I kind of wonder, and which would appease my distaste for some of this customization, is if maybe we could have a way to hide the display of each individual customization within the game world?

Each customization could have a little check box next to it in the UI that when you click it would prevent that customization from being displayed to you. Players and vehicles with that customization would be reverted to a default empire color scheme / design on your screen, but not on theirs.

You might say this inhibits customization, but I think it's merely taking customization one step further. I would like the ability to customize my gameplay experience to exclude certain customization options from showing up to me.

[PlaceboCyanide]

One thing I kind of wonder, and which would appease my distaste for some of this customization, is if maybe we could have a way to hide the display of each individual customization within the game world?

Each customization could have a little check box next to it in the UI that when you click it would prevent that customization from being displayed to you. Players and vehicles with that customization would be reverted to a default empire color scheme / design on your screen, but not on theirs.

You might say this inhibits customization, but I think it's merely taking customization one step further. I would like the ability to customize my gameplay experience to exclude certain customization options from showing up to me.

Then the people who purchase the camo patterns in the hope that it'll help breakup their outline will have wasted their money. In a sort of way I do like the idea as I would like to block out all the clown shoe, rainbow camo wearing soldiers if there are any... but I think a feature like this would lessen the coolness of buying a skin, knowing that only a fraction of the players will even see it.

[LostAlgorithm]

Then the people who purchase the camo patterns in the hope that it'll help breakup their outline will have wasted their money. In a sort of way I do like the idea as I would like to block out all the clown shoe, rainbow camo wearing soldiers if there are any... but I think a feature like this would lessen the coolness of buying a skin, knowing that only a fraction of the players will even see it.

I don't personally buy skins or the like in other games to impress others, I buy them for myself because I like them.

Heck, I'd be fine with paying a slightly larger fee one time to have the ability to hide others customizations as I described before. That would be more than fair I'd think.

If camo customization is a purchasable option, and people are actually putting stock in it as making them harder to see / hit, then it should be something you can disable. Otherwise it's something that the community seems to agree is a pay-to-win option that confers an advantage for money, however small.

[Sledgecrushr]

I absolutely agree that there should be an option that allows you to turn off this kind of superficial personal customisations. Heck EQ had it for a long time with the /showrealskins command.

[Brusi]

The reason that customisable items in Planetside 2 will stay distinctly Planetside will be due to the fact that they are being created by the Planetside 2 art team.

I agree that i would prefer if customisations in general stuck with the theme of the game, much as ugly post-modern houses don't get planning permission if they are on a street full of nice old rustic houses, however that definitely doesn't rule out all manner of awesome helmets and armor.

PS2 Dinosaur helmets, YES... Dinosaur heads, NOOOO!


oh, and +1 for definitely wanting a skull helmet

[Xyntech]

PS2 Dinosaur helmets, YES... Dinosaur heads, NOOOO!


oh, and +1 for definitely wanting a skull helmet

Exactly. As long as it fits in with the style of the game/empire, I'd love to see it. It doesn't have to be that actual specific skull helmet, just something very much like that which also is made to fit in with whichever empire it is made for.

I'm ambivalent about having an ability to disable viewing other peoples cosmetic customizations.

[Mr DeCastellac]

Am I the only one who isn't really looking forward to super customization?

http://i.imgur.com/566I1.gif

[Gonefshn]

I feel you actually on the customization thing. I love the idea of customizing my gear as far as what scopes, magazines, guns, equipment I have. But the camo patterns especially on tanks honestly look very gaudy to me.

I'd be more for the camo patterns if they were forced on all vehicles depending on the continent, but even then i'd just miss the standard colors. Allowing some people to have different camo's and "bling" on their vehicles takes away the immersion that we are fighting a war as an empire. I want to feel the rumble of each empire moving in on each other as a cohesive unit. Imagine playing on a snow level and having people rolling around with desert camo???? I understand why they feel they need to implement these features but I am surely not counted among those who will enjoy it.

[ArmedZealot]

I want it all. Golden armor + inlcuded codpiece, and 2$ more for optional XL size.

In all seriousness the game needs a large amount of customization to survive. Games like league are profitable because they offer a large amount of skins per character, and those skins often have themes that make them seem outlandish and unique to the LoL universe.

However PS2 does not have a large number of characters. Characters are basically each class for every empire and making themes that are outlandish and unique in war sim leaves a bitter taste in vets mouths. So we are limited to gimicky camo + the odd gag addon to buy. Which means prices will likely be absurd.

Personally I think SOE, especially on this issue, needs to ignore the vet concerns and go as far as they can into creating skins that are interesting and worth buying. Especially when such skins will be shown off in a death recap interface.

[Gonefshn]

Personally I think SOE, especially on this issue, needs to ignore the vet concerns and go as far as they can into creating skins that are interesting and worth buying. Especially when such skins will be shown off in a death recap interface.

Or they can just make the game amazing so people will continue to play.

They should allow you to personally turn off all custom skins so that everyone and everything appears normal on your screen. I know if they included an option to view everyone without custom skins I would have it turned on at all times.

[Sledgecrushr]

If they can do otpional skins tastefully it should only enhance the gameplay. Im all in for greater customisation.

[Shlomoshun]

Or they can just make the game amazing so people will continue to play.
For a FTP game model, retention of players who aren't into customization probably isn't what they are actually shooting for...Those players require servers to support and do very little to pay for them. It's sad, but that's the business model they are using so in some sense, if you want the game to succeed, and you are strongly on the side of FTP not meaning any sort of Pay-to-Win (and really, who isn't on this side), you've got to be willing to embrace an ever growing level of customization as a necessary evil for them to provide in order to sustain the game.

[LostAlgorithm]

For a FTP game model, retention of players who aren't into customization probably isn't what they are actually shooting for...Those players require servers to support and do very little to pay for them. It's sad, but that's the business model they are using so in some sense, if you want the game to succeed, and you are strongly on the side of FTP not meaning any sort of Pay-to-Win (and really, who isn't on this side), you've got to be willing to embrace an ever growing level of customization as a necessary evil for them to provide in order to sustain the game.

Which is why you sell the ability to pick and choose which customizations to hide and show for a one time fee of lets say $15.00. I'd pay it if it meant I could further customize the game to my liking by excluding the customizations I find jarring and unsuited to Planetside.

Having such an option would also allow them to go further with the customizations they do have for sale, making them even more out there and diverse to suit more player's sometimes absurd tastes. Don't like them? Well, you have the option to hide them, you just have to pay a little bit yourself.

[Gonefshn]

It's sad, but that's the business model they are using so in some sense, if you want the game to succeed, and you are strongly on the side of FTP not meaning any sort of Pay-to-Win (and really, who isn't on this side), you've got to be willing to embrace an ever growing level of customization as a necessary evil for them to provide in order to sustain the game.

I agree fully with this statement. I stand by the point I made at the end of my previous post.

If customization is about letting the player play the game the way they want, look the way they want, etc. Then allowing me an option to uncheck a box that turns off all custom skins should be included. If you want to run around in a panda suite with a pink Gauss rifle then go for it. But when I customize my own experience, I'll make it so I don't have to see you myself.

Allow people to purchase all sorts of interesting cosmetic items, sure. Just don't force it onto my screen if I feel like it's breaking my game experience.

EDIT: post above mine by LostAlgorithm was added while I was writing up this one. I see you agree with me about being able to hide it but is that really something you should have to pay for? Paying to remove something you find distasteful, is to me, in itself distasteful.

[LostAlgorithm]

EDIT: post above mine by LostAlgorithm was added while I was writing up this one. I see you agree with me about being able to hide it but is that really something you should have to pay for? Paying to remove something you find distasteful, is to me, in itself distasteful.

I'd rather not pay for it, but I'm willing if it will increase the odds of such a feature getting into the game / development time spent on it. Trying to make it appealing to the developers to spend the resources.

It's kind of fair in a way, too. Others have to pay for many of their customizations, so maybe we who dislike them should pay for ours too. As ours is quite a bit further reaching and requires more time to develop, it should be a bit more expensive.

[Shlomoshun]

THen they can pay $30 to make you see them, but for another $30 you can override that....it's an endless business model. :)

But seriously, I get the desire to have an uncheck system so you wouldn't see their skins. That makes some sense...but
That said, ...EDIT: What Lost Algorithm said above.

[Gonefshn]

THen they can pay $30 to make you see them, but for another $30 you can override that....it's an endless business model. :)

But seriously, I get the desire to have an uncheck system so you wouldn't see their skins. That makes some sense...but
That said, ...EDIT: What Lost Algorithm said above.

Definitely an endless business model. I still think it's ridiculous to include being able to turn these things off as something you have to buy. Even if people have to pay for customization, it's about there game not mine. So what that people can turn it off? Is it worth boohooing that I can't express myself? To me it's about my own game, whats on my own screen.

And what part of what he said above are you referring to cause the beginning of your post was going against what he said in his last post.

[Kipper]

Customisation is to be supported IMO, provided they don't add silliness it will be fine.

TF2 is for silliness, World of Tanks offers a solution (camo) that proves you can have cosmetic items that are in keeping with the world.

It's going to be fine, people :)

[LostAlgorithm]

Customisation is to be supported IMO, provided they don't add silliness it will be fine.

TF2 is for silliness, World of Tanks offers a solution (camo) that proves you can have cosmetic items that are in keeping with the world.

It's going to be fine, people :)

I disagree that camo keeps with the universe developed for Planetside. Especially if you can have things like tanks driving around in the snow while using desert camo.

Customization is to be supported, which is why they should also support our ability to customize the game to hide these skins.

[Toppopia]

I would actually like to customise the camo on my tank, maybe have a primary color that can't be changed then a secondary color that you can choose. Its fun to beable to customise your stuff and say, "Yip, thats my Siberian camo AK-47 with a reflex sight with orange circle for sight and red lens" (Call of Duty: Black Ops)

[Rozonus]

I was thinking the opposite to most of you! I love the idea of customisation and it's one of the things I'm looking forward to the most. I'm not talking about random camo schemes etc but the ability to strap extra pouches and bandoleers to my Engi while I'm carrying my shotgun.

And as for using the wrong vehicle camos in different terrains, I plan to use a snow camo on my Galaxy at all times! It's already big enough that it's never going to go un-noticed, and I want everyone to know that it's my Galaxy! If I remember correctly the devs hinted at other vehicle customisations such as writing on the bodywork so I'll be taking full advantage of that too by naming my Galaxy in the same way that pilots named their bombers in WW2.

[ArmedZealot]

Or they can just make the game amazing so people will continue to play.

They should allow you to personally turn off all custom skins so that everyone and everything appears normal on your screen. I know if they included an option to view everyone without custom skins I would have it turned on at all times.

Why would they let you turn it off if players pay for such a thing? That would be unprecedented in the F2P market and detract from the value of such customization. It's a risky move to take from a business perspective. The whole point of the skin is so other people can see it, especially in a first person game.

[bullet]

Guy 1: "Hey. You see that guy in the desert camo? Lets go for him."

Guy 2: "I turned that camo stuff off."

Guy 1: "Oh..."

:rolleyes:

[Lokster]

I think both screens the OP posted look BADASS. I love the camo patterns, and the idea of customization as a whole (as long as it's not TF2 style -- with goofy hats and whatnot).

It's not "PS1" to a T, but if they don't add some new things, PS2 would simply suffer the same fate as it's predecessor.

[PlaceboCyanide]

Why would they let you turn it off if players pay for such a thing? That would be unprecedented in the F2P market and detract from the value of such customization. It's a risky move to take from a business perspective. The whole point of the skin is so other people can see it, especially in a first person game.

+1

I agree, it would just be a bad idea for SOE. I think the largest reason for wanting the customizations turned off is to prevent seeing the absurd things that could be immersion-breaking... like an ice cream truck Sunderer. I (and many others I'm sure) would rather SOE stick to skins and models that have a planetside feel to them, however, everyone has to pay rent. SOE will give the people what they want - and if a large portion of the players are willing to throw out station cash for ice cream truck sunderers, then of course SOE will make more customizations like that.

tl;dr - vote with your $$

[LostAlgorithm]

Why would they let you turn it off if players pay for such a thing? That would be unprecedented in the F2P market and detract from the value of such customization. It's a risky move to take from a business perspective. The whole point of the skin is so other people can see it, especially in a first person game.

Which is why I should be able to pay for such an option as turning off customizations. I think it's a fair request.

[Kipper]

Which is why I should be able to pay for such an option as turning off customizations. I think it's a fair request.

While I understand your point, I don't think that's the way to handle it, your 'one-off' payment - if taken in enough numbers, will negate a payment a customisation fan might make many times over the course of a few years play - but they won't if they think nobody is gonna see it.

For me, its up to SoE to resist creating permanent customisations that kill the feel of the game.

[LostAlgorithm]

While I understand your point, I don't think that's the way to handle it, your 'one-off' payment - if taken in enough numbers, will negate a payment a customisation fan might make many times over the course of a few years play - but they won't if they think nobody is gonna see it.

For me, its up to SoE to resist creating permanent customisations that kill the feel of the game.

I really don't care if they feel their purchase has been "negated". If we both pay to customize the game to our desires, I personally think that they can just suck it up.

"Aww, he can't see my super sweet gold rims and pink armor! This ruins my gameplay experience!"

Really?

Buying customizations forces all of the other players to deal with your tastes, even if they find them obnoxious. However, paying to remove customizations from appearing on your own screen affects the other players in no way. They are similar requests, as both deal with customizing the game to your desires, but it's obvious to me that the one that doesn't force anything upon your fellow players should be the one to win out in this debate over whose desires should take precedence.

[laelgon]

I don't think players should have to pay to not see other people's customizations. That said, it's SOE's responsibility to make sure that the customizations aren't obnoxious and don't ruin the experience for other players. If the option existed to turn them off, I would probably never use it until I see a player running by with neon rainbow patterned armor. Customization needs to be done in a way that motivates people to purchase them, yet doesn't break the immersion and sticks with each empire's theme.

[Kipper]

"Aww, he can't see my super sweet gold rims and pink armor! This ruins my gameplay experience!"

Really?

Not the point. If many people know that many others won't see their customisations, they won't buy them in as a great a number.

You are being selfish. The game is free to download, free to play. Only things like in game advertising, and cash shop items will support it. Even if you don't want to buy them - you need people to want to buy them or PS2 is ended for us all because SoE is a business.

If there's a on off payment of say $15 to switch off everyone's customisations, and it's popular, then buying customisations themselves will become far less popular, and they are repeat purchases worth more than $15 per player over time.

[NCLynx]

If the 100% cash shop only aesthetic things are on a timer (Buy it and have it for a limited time then it goes away again) I won't be buying anything at all.

If other people cannot see what I buy I'm also less likely to buy it.

[xSquirtle]

Combat arms does this, you buy shit and it goes away after a certain amount of time. Which prevents people like my self, coughing up any kind of money for extra stuff. If I cannot keep it on my character forever.

[Kipper]

Combat arms does this, you buy shit and it goes away after a certain amount of time. Which prevents people like my self, coughing up any kind of money for extra stuff. If I cannot keep it on my character forever.

World of tanks does this - game coin gets you temporary camo, and it's hard enough to earn enough to buy new tanks with so I won't do that. Real money gets permanent camo for a single tank, but it ain't cheap - and you don't keep tanks forever.

It looks good, but sadly on those terms I won't pay for camo. I do occasionally buy game coin and premium time tho. I would buy a pattern if I could switch it between tanks, maybe.

That said, I will buy PS2 items that are unique to vehicles - simply because there are less vehicles and I'll get much more use out of each one given that they aren't obsoleted by better ones.

[Gonefshn]

I kind of agree with him though, that if it's just straightforward camo (not like purple and orange stripes or something like that) then it's not too big a deal. I just hope they don't get too carried away with it and force people to have to see it it they are turned off by it.

This guy is on my level ^^^

Camo and things like that make sense, maybe even colors for guns, simple things. But even then I would love to be able to see the game as Vanilla PS2 with no custom stuff like in PS1. Everything uniform.

[laelgon]

I hope they're smart enough to make things one time purchases. I can't see myself ever dropping money just to have a different aesthetic for a limited amount of time.

[Gonefshn]

I hope they're smart enough to make things one time purchases. I can't see myself ever dropping money just to have a different aesthetic for a limited amount of time.

That would never happen, no worries.

[Kipper]

That would never happen, no worries.

It happens elsewhere. To what level of success, I don't know - but I'd say the majority of people in World of Tanks don't have camo because its simply not worth it.

I'd wager more people would buy if it was a pattern that you could apply to any tank (even if only one at a time).

Obviously 10 people buying it one time is the same as 1 person buying it 10 times, so only they know if its working for them. I just know that I personally don't temporary cosmetics in games for real money.

Temporary premium time / XP boosts are fine - thats just like a subscription that's more in your control.

[LostAlgorithm]

Not the point. If many people know that many others won't see their customisations, they won't buy them in as a great a number.

You are being selfish. The game is free to download, free to play. Only things like in game advertising, and cash shop items will support it. Even if you don't want to buy them - you need people to want to buy them or PS2 is ended for us all because SoE is a business.

I'm the one being selfish? I'm just trying to give players options, it's the people pushing for no option to hide customization that are trying to force it onto others and begin selfish, if anything. Other than the customizations I find obnoxious, I really don't care about customizations at all. I'm not going to be impressed because your armor has tiger stripes or is slightly shinier.

And is PS2 really going to be free to download? I was under the impression it was at least a one time license purchase as well.

If there's a on off payment of say $15 to switch off everyone's customisations, and it's popular, then buying customisations themselves will become far less popular, and they are repeat purchases worth more than $15 per player over time.

I disagree that it will have a large enough effect to make customizations unpopular. People have very varied tastes, and there will still be many, as characterized by this thread, who you can flaunt your bling to.

[Mechzz]

This may be getting a bit overwrought, brought on by a lack of BETA!

I haven't seen any evidence that really weird stuff will be available in the shop.

Sure, there are players saying they want that. But I have confidence that SOE will stick to a "Planetside style" for the camos, gun sights, etc. we'll be able to buy.

My own guess is that the worst we might get is along the lines of a "skull-face" mask for an infil or some such. Apart from that, everything will be in the safe pseudo-standard military style we know and expect in PS.

[LostAlgorithm]

This may be getting a bit overwrought, brought on by a lack of BETA!

I haven't seen any evidence that really weird stuff will be available in the shop.

Sure, there are players saying they want that. But I have confidence that SOE will stick to a "Planetside style" for the camos, gun sights, etc. we'll be able to buy.

My own guess is that the worst we might get is along the lines of a "skull-face" mask for an infil or some such. Apart from that, everything will be in the safe pseudo-standard military style we know and expect in PS.

I'd still like the option to hide even just camo, since as I've said it doesn't feel very Planetsidey to me. Empire colors is where it's at. Having everyone be so individualized takes away from things a bit in my opinion.

[Mechzz]

I'd still like the option to hide even just camo, since as I've said it doesn't feel very Planetsidey to me. Empire colors is where it's at. Having everyone be so individualized takes away from things a bit in my opinion.

If everyone in your platoon is wearing different camo then yes, I agree, that's not the same feeling compared to them all looking identical. Less feeling of being a team. However, given that selling camo is a mainstay of the economics of the game then it's gonna happen.

I have no idea from a technical perspective how hard it would be to have an "ignore player appearance customisation" option, but my guess would be that it would greatly increase the computation load since the server would have to check for everyone who can see a given camo if they wanted to actually see it or not then change the displayed frame accordingly.

So I'm afraid we'll have to put up with snow camo on Indar and tiger-skin camo on the cold continent.

It won't be the end of the world, though, as Higby said early on that preserving the silhouette of a class is important, so once we're outside close-range draw distance all will look good, and we'll be able to recognise friend from foe at least.

[LostAlgorithm]

If everyone in your platoon is wearing different camo then yes, I agree, that's not the same feeling compared to them all looking identical. Less feeling of being a team. However, given that selling camo is a mainstay of the economics of the game then it's gonna happen.

I'm not arguing against it happening, I'm simply saying that we should have even more options. Options which I am absolutely willing to pay for to help make them more economically viable.

I have no idea from a technical perspective how hard it would be to have an "ignore player appearance customisation" option, but my guess would be that it would greatly increase the computation load since the server would have to check for everyone who can see a given camo if they wanted to actually see it or not then change the displayed frame accordingly.

No offense, but if you honestly have no idea from a technical perspective on these matters then you really shouldn't be making guesses such as that. I'll admit my lack of knowledge about how it would affect things as well and, rather than try to come up with an an admittedly ignorant counter-perspective on it, I'll just leave it at that.

It's not up to me to decide if it's possible, just to put the idea out there. The only ones who know how Forge Light and the servers would be able handle it is the developers, so lets leave the debate on the technical possibilities up to them, alright?

Sorry, but it's a bit of a pet peeve of mine when people mention things outside the scope of their perspective as if it could be a fact.

It won't be the end of the world, though, as Higby said early on that preserving the silhouette of a class is important, so once we're outside close-range draw distance all will look good, and we'll be able to recognise friend from foe at least.

Not saying it'll be the end of the world, just that I feel a certain bit of what made Planetside what it was will feel gone to me, and I'd like to have the option to reclaim that.

[Snipefrag]

I'm not arguing against it happening, I'm simply saying that we should have even more options. Options which I am absolutely willing to pay for to help make them more economically viable.



No offense, but if you honestly have no idea from a technical perspective on these matters then you really shouldn't be making guesses such as that. I'll admit my lack of knowledge about how it would affect things as well and, rather than try to come up with an an admittedly ignorant counter-perspective on it, I'll just leave it at that.

It's not up to me to decide if it's possible, just to put the idea out there. The only ones who know how Forge Light and the servers would be able handle it is the developers, so lets leave the debate on the technical possibilities up to them, alright?

Sorry, but it's a bit of a pet peeve of mine when people mention things outside the scope of their perspective as if it could be a fact.



Not saying it'll be the end of the world, just that I feel a certain bit of what made Planetside what it was will feel gone to me, and I'd like to have the option to reclaim that.

From a technical perspective it should make no difference IMO, the decision on what will be rendered should be made completely client side. The data describing the character and what skins they might have will still be sent to everyone, but the client will decide what to render based on a simple "show cutomisable skins" setting thats attached to the character/account and can be sent once when a character logs on or updated when a client changes it. Thats the only thing the server should have to deal with.

[Kipper]

For the record, I like to think that I won't buy any customs that aren't in keeping with the theme - because I want the game to look like a proper war too, rather than a punch up in a circus tent.

You argue that many people won't want to see customisations, and then that people opting-out won't have much of an effect, so which is it?

Your request isn't unreasonable but it has to come down to economics. If allowing opt out at least breaks even over time with the sale of custom kit, then fine - but since players buying stuff are likely to do so more than once, it seems at least reasonable that opting out would have to be a recurring cost to offset it. Maybe it can work as a "subscriber only" option.

It's really up to players to stay away from outlandish crap, because you can't blame a profit making organisation for selling what people are willing to buy.

So, say no to clown hats, people!

[ArmedZealot]

So, say no to clown hats, people!

Remember the holiday hats? That kind of customization is in our future. I'm looking forward to it.

Having a "do not render custom skins" option wouldn't have a very intensive hit on performance. It just doesn't make any economic sense.

[Kipper]

I like a Santa hat or seasonal tweak - it reminds you that it's a game, and it's meant to be fun. But only for occasional, special events, and not usable all the time.

[ArmedZealot]

I like a Santa hat or seasonal tweak - it reminds you that it's a game, and it's meant to be fun. But only for occasional, special events, and not usable all the time.

A matter of opinion.

I personally want to have those kinds of things around all the time for those exact reasons.

[Sledgecrushr]

I really dont want to be just another GI joe. I would like for my dudes appearance to evolve over time. If Im going to play this game for several years his look should change over time. Now I dont think having clown feet and a big red nose would be right for this game. But if I want an awesome skull helmet for my max suit I would be very happy to buy it in the cash shop. And they probably should provide hundreds of cool alternative looks inside the cash shop. This is free 2 play and what we have seen is probably what you get for free.

[LostAlgorithm]

You argue that many people won't want to see customisations, and then that people opting-out won't have much of an effect, so which is it?

I believe that both can coexist. People have varying tastes. Myself, as someone who largely doesn't care for cosmetic skin customizations, is unlikely to buy more than one or two of them over the lifetime of the game. If I had the option to hide customizations, I'd likely end up spending more money than I would otherwise. And if I'm thinking like that, then there are surely others who would be in a similar situation.

And my ideal implementation isn't to hide customizations across the board, but rather to let players tweak the ones that show up on their screen to their specifications, giving true customization of the game on a whole. Just look at the way skins and textures work for other games, such as Minecraft or any of the Elder Scrolls games. Players love being able to have that control over what they see visually, and I'd wager even a good number of players who like customizations would go a capability that would give them a little bit more.

Buying the option to hide them would add a screen you can access to browse through each of the available customizations and check off which ones you want to hide individually. That way you could still use certain customizations with it while hiding the ones you dislike.

Would the majority of players who like customizations really be up in arms over the fact that not everyone can see their skin? Especially when they paid for the capability to not have to? It just strikes me as a very selfish outlook to have considering.

A matter of opinion.

I personally want to have those kinds of things around all the time for those exact reasons.

And having things around like Santa holiday hats and the like is exactly what I'm trying to avoid for myself. I don't need seasonal tweaks and fun hats to remind me that I'm playing a game. If I wanted to play a game that doesn't take itself fairly seriously and where people run around looking like clowns, I'd go play Team Fortress 2 or Arkham City Impostors.

Now, I can understand that that perhaps isn't a fair comparison as they are very different games than Planetside. That is why I'm pushing for a compromise that would allow both of us to experience the game in the way we'd like.

[ArmedZealot]

Would the majority of players who like customizations really be up in arms over the fact that not everyone can see their skin? Especially when they paid for the capability to not have to? It just strikes me as a very selfish outlook to have considering.

It's not so much that players would be up in arms over it, its just why should I buy something that is supposed to make me unique when other players can just force me to look like everyone else? I am more likely to by something for myself that makes me look good to other players, which could be something like an outfit patch to make me look more like my mates, or a set of gleaming golden armor which announces to everyone my great skill in game, or even a mercenary/covert ops skin to let people know that I am a loner and like a solitary play style.

If players have the option of shutting this down, especially veterans who control most outfits and squads, then why should I buy something to have them treat me differently when it could just be ignored by these people?

Yes, it is a selfish way of looking at it, but that's just how the cookie crumbles in the F2P and cosmetic sales in any game.



And having things around like Santa holiday hats and the like is exactly what I'm trying to avoid for myself. I don't need seasonal tweaks and fun hats to remind me that I'm playing a game. If I wanted to play a game that doesn't take itself fairly seriously and where people run around looking like clowns, I'd go play Team Fortress 2 or Arkham City Impostors.

Now, I can understand that that perhaps isn't a fair comparison as they are very different games than Planetside. That is why I'm pushing for a compromise that would allow both of us to experience the game in the way we'd like.

While it is a compromise it doesn't make sense in the F2P market, and it has a downside for everyone but veterans. For every player that wants the game to be serious business, there is another that couldn't give a fuck and just wants to have fun. As a developer you want to offer solutions that appeal to both, rather than exclusively to one, so that both crowds are potential sales. Our only hope, as players, is that the developers implementing skins see this and don't do things to alienate either audience.

Tribes: Ascend has done a wonderful job so far in implementing skins that fit well within the universe. I've played many games where I have seen players with the new skins as well so they are being bought. However, if they are bought enough to justify their creation is still a question.

But, we as players should keep an open mind since the PS universe isn't exactly fleshed out very well, and saying "X doesn't make sense in the game! It breaks my immersion!" doesn't make much sense, especially in the sci-fi context. For all we know, PS soldiers celebrate Christmas and Halloween every other week or worship entities like ice cream trucks as god's and like to paint their sunderers in homage.

[LostAlgorithm]

It's not so much that players would be up in arms over it, its just why should I buy something that is supposed to make me unique when other players can just force me to look like everyone else? I am more likely to by something for myself that makes me look good to other players. Yes, it is a selfish way of looking at it, but that's just how the cookie crumbles in the F2P and cosmetic sales in any game.

Because there will be other like-minded players who do appreciate the customizations you've chosen who you can show off to. It's all about accommodating players in a variety of ways. You'd buy it because there would still be players who would see your skins, and the majority of the ones who don't you probably wouldn't even know couldn't see it.

While it is a compromise it doesn't make sense in the F2P market. For every player that wants the game to be serious business, there is another that couldn't give a fuck and just wants to have fun. As a developer you want to offer solutions that appeal to both, rather than exclusively to one, so that both crowds are potential sales.

And offering solutions that appeal to both so that both are potential sales is exactly what I'm arguing for. As I've said, I doubt I'll pay for many skins. If I had the option to pay for the ability to hide customizations, and it was quite a bit more expensive than the skins themselves due to being a much further reaching development, I'd likely end up spending more on the game as a result. I'd spend more simply from that one purchase than I likely would have otherwise.

But, we as players should keep an open mind since the PS universe isn't exactly fleshed out very well, and saying "X doesn't make sense in the game! It breaks my immersion!" doesn't make much sense, especially in the sci-fi context.

I'm sorry, but seasonal fun items like Santa hats, as you argued for, won't make sense no matter how you spin it. I can respect that players want that kind of customization for themselves, all I ask is that I have the option to avoid it.

[ArmedZealot]

And offering solutions that appeal to both so that both are potential sales is exactly what I'm arguing for. As I've said, I doubt I'll pay for many skins. If I had the option to pay for the ability to hide customizations, and it was quite a bit more expensive than the skins themselves due to being a much further reaching development, I'd likely end up spending more on the game as a result. I'd spend more simply from that one purchase than I likely would have otherwise.


But that isn't what you are saying. You want there to be a market for people that buy from the skin shop, and a market for those that want to ignore those that buy from the skin shop. These are exclusively different markets, and appealing to both means coming up with seperate products for each, rather than products which can be sold to both at the same time.

And while you say you would purchase such things, how can you assure the devs that there is a large enough audience that would do the same to justify taking the time to make such an option.

[Kipper]

You're still missing the point ever so slightly - Its not that someone customising their character has an objection to you not wanting to see it, that's absolutely fine.

It's just the knowledge that if that option exists, and its widely used for whatever reason - then it will hurt sales of customisations, because people will be less inclined to pay for what the majority of players are never going to see.

You have to stop looking at it in isolation, as though you wouldn't spend money on customisations, but you'd spend it on turning them off - so that must mean the game is making money from you. Its a group thing - if you spend $10 and that means someone else doesn't spend $20, then you are costing money, not making it, not breaking even.

An effective compromise may be that you have to own every customisation you don't want to see, so if you don't like santa hats, you'd have to buy one to be able to turn it off - but I suspect keeping the game 'pure' would get mighty expensive then!

[LostAlgorithm]

But that isn't what you are saying. You want there to be a market for people that don't care, and a market for those that want to ignore those that don't care. These are exclusively different markets, and appealing to both means coming up with seperate products for each, rather than products which can be sold to both at the same time.

Again, not necessarily.

Just because I dislike some customizations doesn't mean I dislike them all.

And just because others like most customizations doesn't mean they like them all.

The system that I described above could be used by both to determine specifically which customizations show up. Players dig that kind of control.

[ArmedZealot]

An effective compromise may be that you have to own every customisation you don't want to see, so if you don't like santa hats, you'd have to buy one to be able to turn it off - but I suspect keeping the game 'pure' would get mighty expensive then!

Again, not necessarily.

Just because I dislike some customizations doesn't mean I dislike them all.

And just because others like most customizations doesn't mean they like them all.

The system that I described above could be used by both to determine specifically which customizations show up. Players dig that kind of control.

Even this is a little rocky. If Player A is a dick, so much so that 5 people want to buy a "Player A is a dick" shirt, they might think twice because Player A might have bought said shirt just to be further of a dick, or turned the option for the "Player A is a dick" shirt off. So that potential 10$ that Player A spent, if on the shirt or the ability to turn skins off, might cost 50$ in potential sales.

It's much easier to just force skins to be seen and make sure that skins which are popular aren't ones that are immersion breaking.

[LostAlgorithm]

It's much easier to just force skins to be seen and make sure that skins which are popular aren't ones that are immersion breaking.

How do you ensure that the skins that are immersion breaking aren't popular?

Seems even easier to me not to have any skins that are immersion breaking.

[ArmedZealot]

How do you ensure that the skins that are immersion breaking aren't popular?

Seems even easier to me not to have any skins that aren immersion breaking,.

By offering a wide variety of skins that fit within the universe, and a small amount of extravagant or gag skins. Price the extravegant or gag skins higher since they are less likely to be bought, so when they are they still make enough to justify their creation. And price the options that offer more freedom to customize skins higher as well to prevent abuse.

Games like Gunbound have done similar things I believe. Players had to spend more to be more extreme and unique. And when Christmas rolled around they had to spend more to have Christmas themed items. The further they deviate from what a normal character should look like, the more they had to pay.

There will be skins that don't fit within PS's universe, players like having options in things to buy, our only hope is that they are made rare in proportion to how far they fall outside the universe.

[LostAlgorithm]

By offering a wide variety of skins that fit within the universe, and a small amount of gag skins. Price the gag skins higher since they are less likely to be bought, so when they are they still make enough to justify their creation. And price the options that offer more freedom to customize skins higher as well to prevent too much abuse.

Have you seen how crazy the TF2ers go over the newest crazy hat? I doubt that these people care about price, they simply see a Pirate Hat, or Kitty Ears, or a gun that shoots cows and decide "I must have that!"

[ArmedZealot]

Have you seen how crazy the TF2ers go over the newest crazy hat? I doubt that these people care about price, they simply see a Pirate Hat, or Kitty Ears, or a gun that shoots cows and decide "I must have that!"

That is the audience that TF2 appeals to, and crazy hats aren't outside of TF2's universe as well. That audience helps TF2 survive and be successful. These kinds of people will likely be in PS2 as well, and will likely be a minority, but that doesn't mean they should be shut out and ignored if they will pay for something.

[LostAlgorithm]

That is the audience that TF2 appeals to, and crazy hats aren't outside of TF2's universe as well. That audience helps TF2 survive and be successful. These kinds of people will likely be in PS2 as well, and will likely be a minority, but that doesn't mean they should be shut out and ignored if they will pay for something.

But the players who want to be able to hide customizations like that, who will admittedly likely also be a minority, should be shut out and ignored if they will pay for something?

[Ceska]

I'm sorry, but seasonal fun items like Santa hats, as you argued for, won't make sense no matter how you spin it. I can respect that players want that kind of customization for themselves, all I ask is that I have the option to avoid it.

We had santa hats in Planetside... People liked it.

[ArmedZealot]

But the players who want to be able to hide customizations like that, who will admittedly likely also be a minority, should be shut out and ignored if they will pay for something?

What makes the difference between the two is that players who want to hide customization want to take away the value of items available to a potential skin customer, and thus potential sales.

To do this would mean creating a whole different product for such a group, to make sure that each customization that makes it into the game has an option to turn it off as well, and that the option has all the store support to go along with it. This just adds work for the devs for an arguable minority to compete against another arguable minority.

It's also completely in the air on how to price such an option to make it effective and bring everything in the green in terms of money lost/money gained.

[Mechzz]

Seems even easier to me not to have any skins that aren immersion breaking.

Hear, hear. I hope this is what most of us want - that the Devs will resist the urge to go all TF2 and Warhammer on us in a game that has to date had a fairly conservative approach to character appearance.

As I mentioned earlier, we haven't seen any evidence the Devs are planning anything crazy. But just in case they do (and who knows what they might do a year or 2 in), I agree it would be good to have an option to turn off the display of certain customisations. in fact, I would want to use it on the current VS Max design, but that's another discussion.

[ArmedZealot]

I would want to use it on the current VS Max design, but that's another discussion. You and me both. Damn thing looks like a purple butterfly, rather than a death machine.

[LostAlgorithm]

We had santa hats in Planetside... People liked it.

I realize we had them, and I didn't like them then either. I dealt with them, but I'd have prefered not to have had to unless I specifically felt like seeing people wearing Santa hats shooting at each other. They didn't make any sense in the story of the game, they were just fun items, and while there's nothing wrong with that I simply prefer not having to see them.

What makes the difference between the two is that players who want to hide customization want to take away the enjoyment from a potential skin customer, and thus potential sales.

To do this would mean creating a whole different product for such a group, to make sure that each customization that makes it into the game has an option to turn it off as well, and that the option has all the store support to go along with it. This just adds work for the devs for an arguable minority.

It's also completely in the air on how to price such an option to make it effective and bring everything even in terms of money lost/money gained.

I don't want to take anyone's enjoyment away. They won't know that I can't see the skin they are using, and unless someone goes around screaming about how they can't see a particular skin, no one will ever know. As a result, I fail to see how it affects their enjoyment. Most of the people who buy skins simply won't care.

Again, I'm not going to argue technical details. Yes, it would cause more work, but players do like this kind of control. If one person is willing to pay it, I can guarantee you they're not alone. Pricing simply depends on how much skins will be in the first place, which I'm expecting the majority to be no more than a dollar or two. As such I think somewhere between $10 - $15 is entirely fair for such a feature, and I'd certainly be willing to pay it. So long as it lets you pick and choose, it remains relevant even to those who do like some customizations as well, and price like that seems very appealing for that control.

[ArmedZealot]

I don't want to take anyone's enjoyment away.

But you are. I pay 20$ for a skin for you to see. You pay 10$ to not see it. You have made my 20$ worthless, so I just won't buy another skin.

[Mechzz]

I pay 20$ for a skin for you to see. You pay 10$ to not see it. You have made my 20$ worthless, so I just won't buy another skin.

I don't understand how the player who bought the skin would know that the player who didn't want to see it didn't see it?

[ArmedZealot]

I don't understand how the player who bought the skin would know that the player who didn't want to see it didn't see it?

It's not that they don't know that they can't see it. It is that they know they could potentially not see it. It would make me think twice about paying 20$ in the first place.

[Sledgecrushr]

I want a gold max with a skull helmet. And I want everyone to see it.

[ArmedZealot]

I want golden armor and a matching codpiece. And I want everyone to see it.

[LostAlgorithm]

But you are. I pay 20$ for a skin for you to see. You pay 10$ to not see it. You have made my 20$ worthless, so I just won't buy another skin.

People buy stuff that others don't care about ALL THE TIME. Name brand clothing for example. I couldn't care less what someone is wearing in real life. Whether I could see it or not, it wouldn't matter. That purchase, in relation to my perspective on it, was entirely worthless as anything other than more clothes to cover themselves up in.

However, does my not caring about their purchase truly make it entirely worthless? No, because there are and always will be like-minded people that DO care. The situation here is the same. The people who hide it wouldn't be impressed anyway. You'd only be impressing the ones who wouldn't hide it. The only argument then that can be made for forcing everyone to see it in this debate over the worth of the individual skins then is so that you can use them to grief those who DON'T want to see them. I'm sorry if I don't see that as a very valid reason for leaving the option out.

[ArmedZealot]

People buy stuff that others don't care about ALL THE TIME. Name brand clothing for example. I couldn't care less what someone is wearing in real life. Whether I could see it or not, it wouldn't matter. That purchase, in relation to my perspective on it, was entirely worthless as anything other than more clothes to cover themselves up in.

It doesn't matter what you want or care. It matters what someone who is willing to pay for a skin wants or cares.

[Rozonus]

I want a golden Galaxy. Bitches love golden Galaxies.

[Sledgecrushr]

If they include rainbow pony skins for the atv, I would have to agree that I dont want to see that shit. But if its done cool, then seeing a neat skin should be quite an experience.

[LostAlgorithm]

It doesn't matter what you want or care. It matters what someone who is willing to pay for a skin wants or cares.

Why do they care about showing off to people who don't care?

[Sledgecrushr]

For one, those cheap bastards that are playing for free are going to be forced to see my giant golden codpiece while staring into the bright glowing blue eyes of my skull face while I murder them.

[ArmedZealot]

Why do they care about showing off to people who don't care?

Because we can, and are willing to pay money to do so. This money keeps the game from becoming Pay-2-Win and keeps the game alive. I will be encouraging anything that does so.

For one, those cheap bastards that are playing for free are going to be forced to see my giant golden codpiece while staring into the bright glowing blue eyes of my skull face while I murder them.

I want their faces to look like this when I kill them.

http://i.imgur.com/g9u2Y.gif

[ArmedZealot]

delete plz.

[NCLynx]

Why do they care about showing off to people who don't care?

Why else would somebody pay money when they don't have to?

[LostAlgorithm]

Because we can, and are willing to pay money to do so. This money keeps the game from becoming Pay-2-Win and keeps the game alive. If I were a player I'd be encouraging anything that did so.

I absolutely encourage them to develop a wide array of customizations. I simply also absolutely fail to see why anyone would get upset, other than to just whine as many gamers are want to do, about others paying for the option to not have to see them. It seems like an incredibly fair trade off. The player that likes skins loses absolutely nothing. In fact, he actually gains from it as the option would work to increase the enjoyment of the player who buys it and would likely keep them playing longer, meaning they might stick around and buy customizations and other features that they DO like, thus continuing to support the game.

That money keeps the game from becoming Pay-2-Win and keeps the game alive. I thought you said you'd be encouraging anything that did so?

Why else would somebody pay money when they don't have to?

Again, because there will always be those who do care.

Why do people take these scenarios to such extremes? There will still be plenty of people around who will be impressed by your neon pink and green camo Sunderer.

[ArmedZealot]

That money keeps the game from becoming Pay-2-Win and keeps the game alive. I thought you said you'd be encouraging anything that did so?


Because the money that you pay would keep me from paying money. And the money that you pay would likely be a lot less than what I will pay.

Why do people take these scenarios to such extremes? There will still be plenty of people around who will be impressed by your neon pink and green camo Sunderer.

Because it isn't extreme. I would pay 20$ right now if the game had "LostAlgorithm is a n00b" shirt in the store. (I'm kidding, I'm totally gay for you)

[Sledgecrushr]

I do agree that if you purchase the neon pink and green sunderer camo then you sould be able to turn it off. It sounds like a win win for PS2.

[Sledgecrushr]

But also I hope they have hundreds of awesome skins to buy in the online shop and that you would be forced to buy them all to turn them all off.

[ArmedZealot]

I do agree that if you purchase the neon pink and green sunderer camo then you sould be able to turn it off. It sounds like a win win for PS2.

Hater.

[Kipper]

I absolutely encourage them to develop a wide array of customizations. I simply also absolutely fail to see why anyone would get upset, other than to just whine as many gamers are want to do, about others paying for the option to not have to see them.

You're still missing the point.

Nobody who buys customisations is going to be upset that some people can't see them, it's just that knowing that the option is there devalues the proposition. Some people won't be willing to pay as much, some won't be willing to pay at all.

The game is there to make money for the developers. They make it cool and awesome and fun in order to get you to play it, and spend money on it.

[LostAlgorithm]

Because the money that you pay would keep me from paying money. And the money that you pay would likely be a lot less then what I will pay.

Why are you so concerned that people who don't care for the skins that you use see them? Really, think about this. What do you or the game actually lose? They aren't going to compliment you on the skin. They aren't going to go and buy that skin as a result of seeing you use it. If anything, it will work to turn them off from the game.

And the money I pay will likely be a lot less than what you would pay regardless. And I really don't think it's fair to ask someone to pay full price for each individual skin just to hide it. An option like I described would cause me to spend more overall, both for this purchase and possibly due to me sticking around longer due to an increase in my enjoyment of the game. That sticking around means I buy more customizations and other add-ons that I DO like.

It really is a win-win.

[Mechzz]

Why do people take these scenarios to such extremes? There will still be plenty of people around who will be impressed by your neon pink and green camo Sunderer.

A different aspect of skins which I think we've missed is that some people will buy them so they can see how cool they are on that spinny-toon view they get when they review their certs. So people will still buy skins if only to amuse themselves.

I also think that most people will not use the option to turn off the view of customisation, since seeing the goofball that just killed you will be amusing.

But I would definitely support the right of those who don't want to see customisation to not see it.

[ArmedZealot]

A different aspect of skins which I think we've missed is that some people will buy them so they can see how cool they are on that spinny-toon view they get when they review their certs. So people will still buy skins if only to amuse themselves.

Not only this but there will likely be a death recap screen to replace the kill cam. So you would see me everytime I killed you.


But I would definitely support the right of those who don't want to see customisation to not see it.

It's not a right, it'd be a privilege. A privilege you would have to pay for. Just as much as I'd have the privilege of killing you in golden armor.

The argument is what would make more money for the developers.

[LostAlgorithm]

Nobody who buys customisations is going to be upset that some people can't see them, it's just that knowing that the option is there devalues the proposition. Some people won't be willing to pay as much, some won't be willing to pay at all.

How does it devalue it? The skins are going to be pretty dirt cheap anyway. You're saying someone would really feel like spending $2 for a skin is too much because a few of the players might not get to see it? Please explain why it matters to that person that those people, who don't want to see it in the first place, see it? There is no value lost, only value gained due to more people enjoying the game in the way they prefer.

[ArmedZealot]

How does it devalue it? The skins are going to be pretty dirt cheap anyway.

The devs haven't released any pricing information. Going off of Tribes: Ascend skins will not be cheap, and will likely be 8-10$.

[LostAlgorithm]

The devs haven't released any pricing information. Going off of Tribes: Ascend skins will not be cheap, and will likely be 8-10$.

Look at the camo options in the original pics. You'd honestly be willing to pay $8 to $10 dollars, nearly one fifth to one sixth the price of a fully developed game, for that?

If the devs do actually want to make money, they won't set the prices that high.

[ArmedZealot]

Look at the camo options in the original pics. You'd honestly be willing to pay $8 to $10 dollars, nearly one fifth to one sixth the price of a fully developed game, for that?

If the devs do actually want to make money, they won't set the prices that high.

I'm just basing that number off what I have seen in another game with a similar shop.

I wouldn't pay 10$ for camo, but I would pay 10$ for other skins, like player skins with golden armor or some such. It's up to players taste to be honest, and it is the dev's job to make sure they cover enough tastes per skin to make them profitable.

[LostAlgorithm]

I'm just basing that number off what I have seen in another game with a similar shop.

I wouldn't pay 10$ for camo, but I would pay 10$ for other skins, like player skins with golden armor or some such. It's up to players taste to be honest, and it is the dev's job to make sure they cover enough tastes per skin to make them profitable.

I still fail to see how it devalues it enough for it to matter. The players who use the option to hide it won't care that you have golden armor. The purchase is worth the same value regardless, you just think it has more value because you can shove it in more people's faces. The value is an illusion as they already don't care.

[ArmedZealot]

I still fail to see how it devalues it enough for it to matter. The players who use the option to hide it won't care that you have golden armor. The purchase is worth the same value regardless, you just think it has more value because you can shove it in more people's faces. The value is an illusion as they already don't care.

The value of an appearance is how people see you with it. If people don't see you with it, it's value is lessened.

It may seem like an illusion but it isn't. People treat you differently based on how you look, that is true in games and in real life.

I am willing to pay to be treated differently. But if people will treat me the same as a player that doesn't pay anything then what is the point in paying anything?

[Mechzz]

Not only this but there will likely be a death recap screen to replace the kill cam. So you would see me everytime I killed you.

Agreed. I thought of this as I wrote it. I assume LostAlgorithm's solution would include turning the recap screen back to vanilla also.


It's not a right, it'd be a privilege. A privilege you would have to pay for. Just as much as I'd have the privilege of killing you in golden armor.

Agreed. Turning off customisation views should be paid for, as LostAlgorithm also said.

The argument is what would make more money for the developers.

I have to agree on this also. The "give up the main gun" argument went something like this too, so who knows, maybe it'll turn up as an option in the game.

I'd like to be a fly on the wall when Higby et al discuss this!

[LostAlgorithm]

The value of an appearance is how people see you with it. If people don't see you with it, it's value is lessened.

It may seem like an illusion but it isn't. People treat you differently based on how you look, that is true in games and in real life.

I am willing to pay to be treated differently. But if people will treat me the same as a player that doesn't pay anything then what is the point in paying anything?

The only people who will treat you differently are the ones who care. The ones who don't? Either they won't treat you differently at all or, if anything, they'll treat you more poorly. If they will treat you either the same or worse than a player that doesn't pay anything, then what is the point in complaining if they can have an option to pay to hide the skin?

The illusion is that you seem to think there is some value in what those people who don't care think. There is zero value. They. Do. Not. Care.

[ArmedZealot]

The illusion is that you seem to think there is some value in what those people who don't care think. There is zero value. They. Do. Not. Care.

Just because they do not care does not mean they do not treat me differently.

[LostAlgorithm]

Just because they do not care does not mean they do not treat me differently.

Please explain how you are expecting them to treat you differently then.

[ArmedZealot]

Please explain how you are expecting them to treat you differently then.

Because you are willing to pay to make me look different than what I want to look. If you didn't care so much then you wouldn't be proposing this.

If I want to pay to look like an asshat, then players would treat me like an asshat. If I want to pay to look like I am super serious about then game, then I want to be treated like I am super serious about the game. If players who "didn't care" really didn't then why would skins be a market in the first place?

[Kipper]

The value of anything to a buyer is only what they'd be willing to any for it. If they value it equal to or higher than the asking price, they will buy it. If the asking price is too much, they won't.

Knowing that people see these things increases their value - because that s the ONLY purpose they serve to the buyer. Knowing that % of users won't see it decreases it's value.

We're not talking about buying a new gun which gives some gameplay difference since those items will be purchasable for resources, we are talking purely about cosmetic items. If you remove that function, they have nothing else - no other function - ergo, they have zero value.

I've said it before and will again, if your $10 purchase negates my $20 purchase (or 10 other players $2 purchase) then it does not make economic / business sense to offer it.

[LostAlgorithm]

Because you are willing to pay to make me look different than what I want to look. If you didn't care so much then you wouldn't be proposing this.

I'm not sure exactly what you're getting at with this.

Are you saying I would be jealous? For me, it's a matter of taste, not money. And if a person did buy it for reasons of jealousy, then they are still paying money to support the game. Once they get the money they might buy the skin as well and then unhide it. How does this affect you at all either way? Does it really matter as long as the game is continuing to be supported?

And you wouldn't look different to anyone other than myself. I care for my own personal gameplay experience, not because I want to slight you in any way. I would only block skins I personally felt didn't belong in the game. If I was forced to deal with and see them, they wouldn't improve my gameplay experience in any way. They'd simply make me wonder why the devs made such an, in my opinion, poor decision.

If players who "didn't care" really didn't then why would skins be a market in the first place?

I don't care what you personally do, I care about experiencing Planetside the way I want to. That is, exclusively Empire colors and no crazy customizations. That's all.

[ArmedZealot]

And you wouldn't look different to anyone other than myself. I care for my own personal gameplay experience, not because I want to slight you in any way. I would only block skins I personally felt didn't belong in the game. If I was forced to deal with and see them, they wouldn't improve my gameplay experience in any way. They'd simply make me wonder why the devs made such an, in my opinion, poor decision.

What if you were an outfit leader? What If I was trying to impress you with my dedication to the game by buying my super serious skin? Or if I wanted to piss you off by buying a "I <3 TR" shirt when I play Vanu.

You may or may not have turned those options off. I wouldn't know you had or hadn't because you wouldn't have told anyone. But the money I might spend might be effectively useless. So I just won't buy anything in the first place.

If you were forced to deal with me it wouldn't make a difference because you "don't care", as you admit. But I still would have spent my money.

[LostAlgorithm]

The value of anything to a buyer is only what they'd be willing to any for it. If they value it equal to or higher than the asking price, they will buy it. If the asking price is too much, they won't.

Knowing that people see these things increases their value - because that s the ONLY purpose they serve to the buyer. Knowing that % of users won't see it decreases it's value.

We're not talking about buying a new gun which gives some gameplay difference since those items will be purchasable for resources, we are talking purely about cosmetic items. If you remove that function, they have nothing else - no other function - ergo, they have zero value.

I've said it before and will again, if your $10 purchase negates my $20 purchase (or 10 other players $2 purchase) then it does not make economic / business sense to offer it.

Again, you seem to make it an all or nothing proposition. I'm not going to be impressed by your purchase, I'm not going to care about it other than the fact that it decrease my own enjoyment of the game. There is no value coming from someone who would hide the skin in the first place.

And you will never have a zero value situation as there will always be other players who enjoy the skin you've bought and will have it enabled. Those are the only people you'd be gaining value from in the first place.

You neither lose nor gain anything from such an option while those who dislike the skins do gain something. It's a pure gain towards the overall enjoyment of the game by all players.

[Sledgecrushr]

I'm not sure exactly what you're getting at with this.

Are you saying I would be jealous? For me, it's a matter of taste, not money. And if a person did buy it for reasons of jealousy, then they are still paying money to support the game. Once they get the money they might buy the skin as well and then unhide it. How does this affect you at all either way? Does it really matter as long as the game is continuing to be supported?

And you wouldn't look different to anyone other than myself. I care for my own personal gameplay experience, not because I want to slight you in any way. I would only block skins I personally felt didn't belong in the game. If I was forced to deal with and see them, they wouldn't improve my gameplay experience in any way. They'd simply make me wonder why the devs made such an, in my opinion, poor decision.



I don't care what you personally do, I care about experiencing Planetside the way I want to. That is, exclusively Empire colors and no crazy customizations. That's all.

Again, you seem to make it an all or nothing proposition. I'm not going to be impressed by your purchase, I'm not going to care about it other than the fact that it decrease my own enjoyment of the game. There is no value coming from someone who would hide the skin in the first place.

And you will never have a zero value situation as there will always be other players who enjoy the skin you've bought and will have it enabled. Those are the only people you'd be gaining value from in the first place.

You neither lose nor gain anything from such an option while those who dislike the skins do gain something. It's a pure gain towards the overall enjoyment of the game by all players.

If you think you are going to see the same little army men all in the same uniforms I am afraid you are going to be disappointed.

[LostAlgorithm]

What if you were an outfit leader? What If I was trying to impress you with my dedication to the game by buying my super serious skin?

Obviously you failed at impressing me then and shouldn't have made such a poor decision based on your perception of a single other player's tastes. It's not the developer's job to protect you from poorly spending your money by forcing people to deal with you choices regardless.

Or if I wanted to piss you off by buying a "I <3 TR" shirt when I play Vanu.

Again, I don't consider trolling a valid reason to force people either. The ones who enjoy a little inter-faction rivalry fun wouldn't hide it.

You wouldn't know I had because you may or may not have turned those options off. I wouldn't know you had or hadn't because you wouldn't have told anyone. But they money I might spend might be effectively useless. So I just won't buy anything in the first place.

You should just buy stuff you enjoy and stop caring what other people think. Maybe you SHOULDN'T be spending $10 for something as situational as a skin to impress a single person or a skin that's used to grief.

If you were forced to deal with me it wouldn't make a difference, as you admit. But I still would have spent my money.

And it would still be as much of a waste.

If you think you are going to see the same little army men all in the same uniforms I am afraid you are going to be disappointed

I just want Empire colors and no crazy stuff like Santa hats, Kitty Ears, etc. I really don't think it's that much to ask.

[ArmedZealot]

I just want Empire colors and no crazy stuff like Santa hats, Kitty Ears, etc. I really don't think it's that much to ask.

I don't think it's too much to ask to go easy on that stuff, but just be realistic. It's a game, one that many will play, and as such has to cater to more than the people that think like you.

And I just want to spend my money, I don't really care if you think it is wasteful or not. Your opinion of what I spend my money on isn't terribly important. What is, is how much money devs make off skins.

[LostAlgorithm]

I don't think it's too much to ask to go easy on that stuff. But just be realistic. It's a game, one that many will play, and as such has to cater to more than the people that think like you.

And I just want to spend my money, I don't really care if you think it is wasteful or not.

And all of that is fine! I'm just saying that we can all coexist, and be happy, and kill each other in peace!

The only barrier I'm seeing is that for some reason you and the others think you lose value if I and those who think like me can't see your skins. I'm trying to make it clear that you don't! I will treat you the same regardless, so you have already lost whatever value you think you'd have gained from me. Therefore, there is only value to be gained, both for my enjoyment and for the developer's pockets, by giving me an option to hide them.

[Sledgecrushr]

Im really hoping that the dev team will vet these items before they get made and put into the cash shop. I dont want to see too much silliness either. Though it might be fun to say "Focus Fire the Lime green Max wearing the chicken suit!!"

[Kipper]

And all of that is fine! I'm just saying that we can all coexist, and be happy, and kill each other in peace!

I agree. Just try to think bigger, the value goes down by the number of players who exercise the opt-out. If its just you, 0.01% or whatever then no biggie.

What if its 10%, or 25%? Or more than that? This how much potential revenue the game loses, there's no sense in investing costly developer-hours into something that will lose you money.

And, if it's just you - 0.01% - then I'm afraid you're still shit out of luck, because there's equally no sense spending time and money on a feature for a such a tiny minority.

[Purple]

i wont spend money on skins unless everyone is forced to see it. ill buy the skins so you will see my style in the kill recap. or be like that reaver with the sharkface just saved me from getting over run.

[laelgon]

Except that players won't know how many or which players have chosen to opt out unless SOE releases the numbers on it, which I can't imagine they'd ever do. I also don't imagine the players who opt out are going to spend tons of time talking it in game or on the forums, since they'll be happy playing the game the way they want. Frankly, if you're scared away from purchasing a vanity item because you think an unspecified number of people may not see it, you've got some problems outside of the game you need to deal with.

[LostAlgorithm]

I agree. Just try to think bigger, the value goes down by the number of players who exercise the opt-out. If its just you, 0.01% or whatever then no biggie.

What if its 10%, or 25%? Or more than that? This how much potential revenue the game loses, there's no sense in investing costly developer-hours into something that will lose you money.

And, if it's just you - 0.01% - then I'm afraid you're still shit out of luck, because there's equally no sense spending time and money on a feature for a such a tiny minority.

I'm not proposing an opt-out, I'm proposing a system that will allow you to pick and choose what skins show up. It's not an automatic loss in the least. I fully intend to make use of my own customizations while using the option to hide others.

And, one thing I've learned over the years is that if someone feels a certain way they most likely aren't alone. And the system would be designed that it could be used to hide different skins depending on each player's tastes.

i wont spend money on skins unless everyone is forced to see it. ill buy the skins so you will see my style in the kill recap. or be like that reaver with the sharkface just saved me from getting over run.

I don't care about your "style". Why would you punish the developers so pointlessly just because I potentially don't want to see the skin you picked out? Why are people so petty?

[ArmedZealot]

I don't care about your "style". Why would you punish the developers so pointlessly just because I potentially don't want to see the skin you picked out? Why are people so petty?

It isn't punishing developers. They just wouldn't be providing a product worth buying.

Frankly, if you're scared away from purchasing a vanity item because you think an unspecified number of people may not see it, you've got some problems outside of the game you need to deal with.

"If you disagree with me you must be messed up in the head!"

[Kipper]

You still refuse to acknowledge the economics of it.

[laelgon]

"If you disagree with me you must be messed up in the head!"

Yup, you nailed my argument well. :rolleyes:

People have this strange need to be a unique snowflake, and make sure that everyone knows they're a unique snowflake as well. I really don't understand how your enjoyment of a game is ruined by someone else not seeing your fashion choice. Do you walk down the street making sure everyone you walk by notices the clothes you're wearing? If you do, you're crazy. If you don't, you're an adult and you realize that most of the people you encounter in a day don't give a damn about your existence. It's not like they're even going to remember you three seconds after you leave their line of sight, so why do they have to have there experience hampered so you can feel special?

[ArmedZealot]

experience hampered so you can feel special?

Why is their experience affected by what skin I have?

Your argument consists of calling your opposition crazy and childish.

[Kipper]

People have this strange need to be a unique snowflake, and make sure that everyone knows they're a unique snowflake as well. I really don't understand how your enjoyment of a game is ruined by someone else not seeing your fashion choice.

Point still missed or ignored. A persons clothing serves many purposes - to be comfortable, warm, well fitting, well made and to allow you to walk around in public without getting arrested, etc etc. Pretty much the least important function is how strangers perceive you unless you're specifically trying to make some point.

A game item serves one purpose and one purpose only - to be seen. Take away that purpose and you take away the value of the item.

If the item has no value, people won't buy it, if people don't buy items, the game won't recoup or go into profit. If that happens, best case is no patches/development/new content. Worst case is no game at all (servers cost money to run).

[laelgon]

Why is their experience affected by what skin I have?

Because for some people, they like to be immersed in the experience, and seeing a neon rainbow camo pattern breaks that immersion and ruins the fun. That's why I play most games with names turned off, so I don't have to see xxleetxsniperxx over a player's head.

Why do people feel their purchased is devalued by someone else not wanting to see it?

This is just going to go back and forth until we actually get in the game and see what there is for customization. Hopefully they're all done tastefully and it won't be an issue.

[ArmedZealot]

Because for some people, they like to be immersed in the experience, and seeing a neon rainbow camo pattern breaks that immersion and ruins the fun. That's why I play most games with names turned off, so I don't have to see xxleetxsniperxx over a player's head.

So you acknowledge that how I look does affect your feel of the game in some way, right? So you do care how I look?

[LostAlgorithm]

You still refuse to acknowledge the economics of it.

I simply disagree with how you view the economics on it. It would not be a huge cut in the number of customization sales. It would only lead to more money going to the developers through the sale of the option to hide customizations.

Why is their experience affected by what skin I have?

My experience would be negatively affected because I want it to be like PS1. I want it to feel like massive, uniform armies duking it out, not a bunch of individuals in golden armor, and neon armor, and desert camo, and snow camo, and whatever else who just happen to be on the same side.

Your argument consists of calling your opposition crazy and childish.

Well, to be fair, one of the reasons you asked to not have customizations hidden was so that you could dress like an "asshat" and have people get mad at you about it.

A game item serves one purpose and one purpose only - to be seen. Take away that purpose and you take away the value of the item.

There. Is. No. Value. To. Be. Taken. Away. If a person does not approve of the customization you have chosen, there is no value to be gained from them seeing it. Having the option to hide it increases the overall value of the game experience as it provides more enjoyment to the parties involved.

So you acknowledge that how I look does affect your feel of the game in some way, right? So you do care how I look?

Yes, it does affect me and those of similar opinion to me, but not in a positive way. As I've said, just because you want to grief and troll people is not a good excuse for excluding the option to hide customizations.

[laelgon]

Point still missed or ignored. A persons clothing serves many purposes - to be comfortable, warm, well fitting, well made and to allow you to walk around in public without getting arrested, etc etc. Pretty much the least important function is how strangers perceive you unless you're specifically trying to make some point.

A game item serves one purpose and one purpose only - to be seen. Take away that purpose and you take away the value of the item.

If the item has no value, people won't buy it, if people don't buy items, the game won't recoup or go into profit. If that happens, best case is no patches/development/new content. Worst case is no game at all (servers cost money to run).

But I still don't see how players are going to know if other people have opted out of seeing their customizations. If people don't know how many have, they're going to guess. I'm about to make a generalization here: The people who care so much about being seen are probably going to assume that everyone else is going to want to see them. The value all depends upon the mind of the player, and the people who really want others to see them are probably willing to pay even if some people don't see them.

[Toppopia]

Couldn't this problem be solved by having a primary color that can't be changed? (Because how am i supposed to know who the enemy is if everyone is a different color) so that TR would be Red or Black, NC would be blue or gold, and VS would be purple or ?. so then people customise their secondary colors so that its not as bad as seeing a pink player because we will see a Blue and pink player, and still allows people to be unique in how they look.
Also make turning off this feature $100, that will make SOE lots of money :lol:

[ArmedZealot]

Yes, it does affect me and those of similar opinion to me, but not in a positive way. As I've said, just because you want to grief and troll people is not a good excuse for excluding the option to hide customizations.

It is the best reason to buy a skin. I will be killing you, and on your death screen you will see me in my skin. You having the ability to turn that off makes purchasing a skin fairly useless.

The devs have even acknowledged this in talks over taunts being available in the store.

[Kipper]

here. Is. No. Value. To. Be. Taken. Away. If a person does not approve of the customization you have chosen, there is no value to be gained from them seeing it.

What? No! It has nothing to do with indivudals - its mathematics. If its worth $10 to have 100% of people you come into contact with see your item, if 10% of them are never going to see it, then its worth 10% less, aka $9. That's decided when the purchaser is purchasing, not afterwards. 10% across the board is $100,000 for every $1,000,000 of revenue, why would a business do that to itself?

The value isn't gained or lest when people see it or don't. Its just there at the point when people buy it. It doesn't fluctuate (although it may decrease if its popular and people want to be unique, which is what the developers will hope for, a sort of cosmetic arms race to bring in the cash).

But I still don't see how players are going to know if other people have opted out of seeing their customizations. If people don't know how many have, they're going to guess.

And I bet you they'd guess higher than the actual figure, so it makes it worse.

[LostAlgorithm]

It is the best reason to buy a skin. I will be killing you, and on your death screen you will see me in my skin. You having the ability to turn that off makes purchasing a skin fairly useless.

It's not like I'll be upset at you for having the skin, I'll simply think the developers made a poor choice in selling it. You showing up on my kill screen in pink armor isn't going to make me rage, it'll just make the game less enjoyable as it won't feel like Planetside to me.

[ArmedZealot]

It's not like I'll be upset at you for having the skin, I'll simply think the developers made a poor choice in selling it. You showing up on my kill screen in pink armor isn't going to make me rage, it'll just make the game less enjoyable as it won't feel like Planetside to me.

It affects you enough that you are willing to pay to not see it.

[Kipper]

Couldn't this problem be solved by having a primary color that can't be changed?

I can't see silliness taking over, I'm arguing devils advocate / business case on here but the fact is, I want Planetside to look like Planetside too - but I also want it to make money so that it will continue to exist and grow, we've waited long enough for it ffs :)

I don't think SoE will go too heavily (if at all) down the clown hats route, it will just be different designs - in keeping with your empire - that make you look a bit more personalised without taking away from the fact that you're supposed to be a killing machine.

[LostAlgorithm]

What? No! It has nothing to do with indivudals - its mathematics. If its worth $10 to have 100% of people you come into contact with see your item, if 10% of them are never going to see it, then its worth 10% less, aka $9. That's decided when the purchaser is purchasing, not afterwards.

The value isn't gained or lest when people see it or don't. Its just there at the point when people buy it. It doesn't fluctuate (although it may decrease if its popular and people want to be unique, which is what the developers will hope for, a sort of cosmetic arms race to bring in the cash).

But you see, it's not ever worth that 100%. No where near 100% of the people you run across are going to care that you are wearing that skin. For all intents and purposes, you might have well as have not spent that money.

The value goes beyond who can just see it, the opinion of every person you run into also influences the true value of the skin. If people don't care, then it doesn't matter even if they can see it.

The devs have even acknowledged this in talks over taunts being available in the store.

Can you elaborate on this? What kind of taunts? Such as the verbal ones from the original Planetside? Those wouldn't be nearly as bad as a constantly seeing a large hodgepodge collection of soldiers in different armor who are supposedly on the same side.

It affects you enough that you are willing to pay to not see it.

True enough. And I simply don't think they should listen to griefers and trolls when it comes to deciding who to support on this matter.

"I want him to be pissed every time I kill him cause of my armor.", isn't a perspective I'd want to support as a developer at least.

[ArmedZealot]

Can you elaborate on this? What kind of taunts? Such as the verbal ones from the original Planetside? Those wouldn't be nearly as bad as a constantly seeing a large hodgepodge collection of soldiers in different armor who are supposedly on the same side.

I don't have any particular thread to look for. But I believe it to be similar to the voice system from PS1 where you could buy a custom taunt, something to replace "You call yourself a soldier?", But the devs reacted positively to taunts that were animations being played in the spawn screen.



True enough. And I simply don't think they should listen to griefers and trolls when it comes to deciding who to support on this matter.

"I want him to be pissed every time I kill him cause of my armor.", isn't a perspective I'd want to support as a developer at least.

Why not? It's a game that supports competition and antagonism between the empires in a light-hearted fashion. I would put griefing and trolling under that, especially in a game where you kill your opponents with skill and tactics. To be honest I would say the PS supports them as much as EvE does.

[Obakan]

One thing that I don't think anyone has brought up yet is whether or not the camo that you can buy will actually be able to help you blend into the environment. If it does help you blend in, won't that give people who purchase a cash shop item that lets them toggle skins on or off an unfair advantage?

In this case, I think it would be a similar argument to whether or not you should be able to toggle the cockpit view of aircraft.

[LostAlgorithm]

Why not? It's a game that supports competition and antagonism between the empires in a light-hearted fashion. I would put griefing and trolling under that, especially in a game where you kill your opponents with skill and tactics. To be honest I would say the PS supports them as much as EvE does.

Sure, it's fine to have them, but I feel a player should be able to pay to avoid them still. More options are better I feel. Let the players who want the light-hardheartedness have it and the ones who want a slightly more serious online shooter have their experience as well. I don't see how it isn't a fair trade off just because you feel you can't antagonize certainly players.

One thing that I don't think anyone has brought up yet is whether or not the camo that you can buy will actually be able to help you blend into the environment. If it does help you blend in, won't that give people who purchase a cash shop item that lets them toggle skins on or off an unfair advantage?

If camo does confer an advantage for blending in, does it not then become an issue of them implementing pay-to-win? Isn't it only fair then to allow players the option to turn it off?

[ArmedZealot]

Sure, it's fine to have them, but I feel a player should be able to pay to avoid them still. More options are better I feel. Let the players who want the light-hardheartedness have it and the ones who want a slightly more serious online shooter have their experience as well. I don't see how it isn't a fair trade off just because you feel you can't antagonize certainly players.

Because it takes away from people that pay to have their fun when you give people the ability to turn it off, thus risking a loss in potential skin sales?

[LostAlgorithm]

Because it takes away from people that pay to have their fun when you give people the ability to turn it off, and thus potential skin sales?

They'll never know if you saw it or not. Heck, I bet most won't really pay attention to the kill screen regardless. Not much of a reason to not purchase a skin that you wanted, IMO.

[ArmedZealot]

They'll never know if you saw it or not. Heck, I bet most won't really pay attention to the kill screen regardless. Not much of a reason to not purchase a skin that you wanted, IMO.

Again, it's not that a potential customer doesn't know if they have skins turned on or off, it's that the potential for it to happen is enough to discourages sales.

I wouldn't discount how important that screen is. It will likely be the most viewed menu in the game.

[Toppopia]

One thing that I don't think anyone has brought up yet is whether or not the camo that you can buy will actually be able to help you blend into the environment. If it does help you blend in, won't that give people who purchase a cash shop item that lets them toggle skins on or off an unfair advantage?


There was a time in COD Black Ops where i could customise the camo of my gun by seeing what map was being played, so if it was snow i would use white or siberian camo, jungle and i would choose green, etc, but then i realised that was stupid because you can't hide in Black Ops, its not possible, but I would almost pay to by a skin that helped me blend in jungle maps or desert maps, but then the problem arises of giving me an advantage, but i doubt the advantage would be more than the 20% that Higby said would be the difference between veteran and newbie players. So hopefully they do add in camo for each map, that would create new tactics and allow outfits to be more strategic or something like that.

tl;dr: Camo isn't a big advantage boost, hopefully camo will be useful in this game.

[LostAlgorithm]

Again, it's not that a potential customer doesn't know if they have skins turned on or off, it's that the potential for it to happen is enough to discourages sales.

I wouldn't discount how important that screen is. It will likely be the most viewed menu in the game.

I disagree that it's enough to discourage sales. Players will buy skins that they want regardless. Even the ones earlier who said they wouldn't if this option existed.

Most viewed menu? Sure. Most viewed part of that menu? The button that says I can respawn. I barely pay attention to much else.

And camo should at least be limited by the battleground. No desert camo or forest camo tanks in the snow!

[Toppopia]

And camo should at least be limited by the battleground. No desert camo or forest camo tanks in the snow!

Maybe if there is a camo pack that contains:
Camouflage for each environment.

So if you are in snow, your soldier and tanks automatically become snow camo, desert you become desert etc. But make it so this skin isn't customisable so you can either have this or a custom skin.

I could imagine outfits having a rule about custom camo, probably will say:
"No bright colors, only colors that help blend with environment, anyone using and bright colors will be kicked." or something along those lines.

[Purple]

It's not like I'll be upset at you for having the skin, I'll simply think the developers made a poor choice in selling it. You showing up on my kill screen in pink armor isn't going to make me rage, it'll just make the game less enjoyable as it won't feel like Planetside to me.

if customizations are not in the game like you want. how will this game make money. it needs to be a free to play game without subs so it draws a large player base. i know they also have side-grades and boosters but why would they opt out of customization which will boost profits? people want to be individuals in games nowadays not just another number. you are a very small group of players who think that if people are allowed to look how they want to then the game is not worth playing.

[LostAlgorithm]

if customizations are not in the game like you want. how will this game make money. it needs to be a free to play game without subs so it draws a large player base. i know they also have side-grades and boosters but why would they opt out of customization which will boost profits? people want to be individuals in games nowadays not just another number. you are a very small group of players who think that if people are allowed to look how they want to then the game is not worth playing.

You haven't read this thread at all if you believe I think customizations should be cut out, or that people shouldn't be able to look how they want. They absolutely should! I'd just like the OPTION to not have to see it while still being able to play the game.

[Purple]

You haven't read this thread at all if you believe I think customizations should be cut out, or that people shouldn't be able to look how they want. They absolutely should! I'd just like the OPTION to not have to see it while still being able to play the game.

right but the way you post its a small jump to assume you dont want them in the game. if this option were to be in the game you may get 1 person in 100 to spend 50-100 to turn them off. however if people know its an option there may be 100 people out of 1000 who dont spend $30 on the game so instead of gaining $3000 they would only get $100 not to mention the fact that the person who spend the $100 will not be spending any additional money on a new camo pattern. it is very common in FTP games that some people will spend $150-300 a year this will be reduced if some people have skins turned off.

[ArmedZealot]

:lol: You guys still going at this? Yeah lol. I'm done. I've made my points and have rehashed them several times over. For anyone reading this, including devs, I want to spend my money on skins, don't allow them to be turned off by other players.

Create skins that fit within the universe and if they don't charge extra. Do this and you will have a happy playerbase.

[Toppopia]

:lol: You guys still going at this? I think one factor you should consider if you haven't already and there is no way I am going to read back over all this. Just thought I'd interject, one of the reasons you will probably not see this opt out viewing feature is consider the amount of dev time and money spent on creating these skins or whatever. I know you say give you the option to pay to turn off viewing but that will likely not come close to offsetting the dev cost. So they will want everyone to see the work they have done to justify the cost. And really to be fair to every one as it may make a difference in overall gameplay (just like option to turn off cockpit was rejected) so with the two mentioned reasons I doubt they allow turning off viewing of cosmetic items.

Those are very good points and this means that skins are now not able to be toggled off if devs spend lots of time making cool skins. Thread closing now?

[Kipper]

True enough. And I simply don't think they should listen to griefers and trolls when it comes to deciding who to support on this matter.

The decision will be made by SoE accountants.

I don't want to grief anyone, and I don't want to look ridiculous or see anything that looks ridiculous - but I will be happy to support the game while I'm enjoying it and hope to see that other people are doing the same, provided its as awesome as it looks like it will be. As someone who runs their own business, I don't always like the projects I'm working on, I like working on awesome stuff, but sometimes I have to do relatively boring stuff because it brings in the money and that's what being in business is about. Awesome product is merely a means by which sales & profit are generated.

I think many people will be turned off by ridiculousness, so I see your viewpoint more than you perhaps think - players that are will find something else to play; and a rather one sided meeting will take place:

"hmm, when we made clown hats and ice cream truck sunderers, we lost 3% of our player-base and 10% of our revenue. Remove the clown hats and ice cream trucks, this instant!".

Following this, an email will go out saying "Please come back to PS2, We've removed clown hats and ice cream trucks!". Everyone will be happy once more.

Now..... If you go ahead in your large zerg numbers and buy clown hats and ice-cream trucks, then they release indian head-dresses and fire engines, and you buy those too - THIS meeting will take place:

"When we made indian head-dresses and fire-engines, our player base remained the same and we made 15% more revenue! Make more quirky hats and silly vehicles, this instant!".

Future players of Planetside 2 - its your choice. Make the right one!

[LostAlgorithm]

Leave it up to the devs to decide what's viable and what's not. We, due to a lack of information and technical skill, can't really make those assumptions.

For anyone reading this, including devs, I want to spend my money on skins, don't allow them to be turned off by other players.

I want to spend my money on skins, and I want to play a game that doesn't feel like TF2 lite with a bunch of clowns running around in a rainbow of colors. I want to play a badass, Empire vs Empire game where it feels like I'm truly a part of a vast war-machine of disciplined and largely uniform troops. But I don't want to deny others access to less than serious skins either. I hope it's obvious which is the more reasonable side in this debate. If you're having trouble figuring it out, it's not the one arguing that players should have things forced upon them just because some want to taunt others and feel like special snowflakes.

Give players options and control. Players dig any kind of control you can give them over the content of their gaming. Create skins that appeal to a wide variety of gamers, but allow those who dislike them to hide them. Do this and you will have a happy playerbase.

[Purple]

Yeah lol. I'm done. I've made my points and have rehashed them several times over. For anyone reading this, including devs, I want to spend my money on skins, don't allow them to be turned off by other players.

Create skins that fit within the universe and if they don't charge extra. Do this and you will have a happy playerbase.

great way of putting it. i truly believe that the devs wont put ridiculous skins in the game. only ones that work well with it.

[Kipper]

Dude, seriously. I'm done with this thread because you're opting out of logic as well as custom skins.

It's a financial decision pure and simple.

Your individual happiness does not matter - the collective happiness of the entire playerbase, as measured by the number of downloads, active accounts, and spend on cash shop items is all that matters. The more awesome the game, the more people will try it, like it, play it, and spend money on it - that not cynicism by the way, that's reality.

The devs will deliver more of what is selling (as directed by the bean-counters), so the more silliness people buy into, the more silliness will happen. If the level of silliness gets intolerable for too many people and they leave, then silliness will be toned down. Likewise, if people leave because there isn't enough silliness - expect more of it. There will be graphs of silliness vs number of active players. Clown hats over time, so to speak. Seriously.

The job of the producers of this game is to cater for as many tastes as they can without actually pissing any one of them off entirely. They want you, the serious player. They want me, the XP bonus buying and occasional skin purchasing player, and yes, they even want the TF2 silly hat obsessive player who wants to troll you while actually dressed as a troll (in a pirate hat).

Their job is to find the balance that means we all co-exist in a state of perpetual, light hearted(!) all out war, and that between all possible types of player and play-style, we play often, and spend money often.

That is all there is to it!

[Sledgecrushr]

The decision will be made by SoE accountants.

I don't want to grief anyone, and I don't want to look ridiculous or see anything that looks ridiculous - but I will be happy to support the game while I'm enjoying it and hope to see that other people are doing the same, provided its as awesome as it looks like it will be. As someone who runs their own business, I don't always like the projects I'm working on, I like working on awesome stuff, but sometimes I have to do relatively boring stuff because it brings in the money and that's what being in business is about. Awesome product is merely a means by which sales & profit are generated.

I think many people will be turned off by ridiculousness, so I see your viewpoint more than you perhaps think - players that are will find something else to play; and a rather one sided meeting will take place:

"hmm, when we made clown hats and ice cream truck sunderers, we lost 3% of our player-base and 10% of our revenue. Remove the clown hats and ice cream trucks, this instant!".

Following this, an email will go out saying "Please come back to PS2, We've removed clown hats and ice cream trucks!". Everyone will be happy once more.

Now..... If you go ahead in your large zerg numbers and buy clown hats and ice-cream trucks, then they release indian head-dresses and fire engines, and you buy those too - THIS meeting will take place:

"When we made indian head-dresses and fire-engines, our player base remained the same and we made 15% more revenue! Make more quirky hats and silly vehicles, this instant!".

Future players of Planetside 2 - its your choice. Make the right one!

If everyone is buying clown hats and little red fire trucks=money for PS2.
I think what you are trying to say is if PS2 comes out with a dumbass skin and no one bought it they might take it out of the cash shop. And youre right, that is something I would never buy. Now a lime green chicken suit on the other hand...

[JPalmer]

edit: lol nvm

[Sledgecrushr]

Dude, seriously. I'm done with this thread because you're opting out of logic as well as custom skins.

It's a financial decision pure and simple.

Your individual happiness does not matter - the collective happiness of the entire playerbase, as measured by the number of downloads, active accounts, and spend on cash shop items is all that matters. The more awesome the game, the more people will try it, like it, play it, and spend money on it - that not cynicism by the way, that's reality.

The devs will deliver more of what is selling (as directed by the bean-counters), so the more silliness people buy into, the more silliness will happen. If the level of silliness gets intolerable for too many people and they leave, then silliness will be toned down. Likewise, if people leave because there isn't enough silliness - expect more of it. There will be graphs of silliness vs number of active players. Clown hats over time, so to speak. Seriously.

The job of the producers of this game is to cater for as many tastes as they can without actually pissing any one of them off entirely. They want you, the serious player. They want me, the XP bonus buying and occasional skin purchasing player, and yes, they even want the TF2 silly hat obsessive player who wants to troll you while actually dressed as a troll (in a pirate hat).

Their job is to find the balance that means we all co-exist in a state of perpetual, light hearted(!) all out war, and that between all possible types of player and play-style, we play often, and spend money often.

That is all there is to it!

Yeah exactly what you said here 8 )

[Sledgecrushr]

And I love the turn stuff off option for custom skin, once you have purchased a particular skin you should then have the right to turn that particular skin off.

[LostAlgorithm]

Dude, seriously. I'm done with this thread because you're opting out of logic as well as custom skins.

It's a financial decision pure and simple.

Chill dude, I simply disagree with how you look at it financially.

There's no hard facts about how any of this would work. Financial theorycrafting isn't something that's set in stone and can only have one outcome. Just because I disagree with you doesn't mean I'm "opting out of logic" and I've said repeatedly that I don't want to get rid of custom skins.

Your individual happiness does not matter - the collective happiness of the entire playerbase, as measured by the number of downloads, active accounts, and spend on cash shop items is all that matters. The more awesome the game, the more people will try it, like it, play it, and spend money on it - that not cynicism by the way, that's reality.

I'm not speaking for my individual happiness, I'm speaking for everyone that feels as I do. I'm not the only one in this thread who has expressed interest in this option, so stop trying to make it seem like it's all something that I'm the only person in the world pushing for.

The job of the producers of this game is to cater for as many tastes as they can without actually pissing any one of them off entirely. They want you, the serious player. They want me, the XP bonus buying and occasional skin purchasing player, and yes, they even want the TF2 silly hat obsessive player who wants to troll you while actually dressed as a troll (in a pirate hat).

Their job is to find the balance that means we all co-exist in a state of perpetual, light hearted(!) all out war, and that between all possible types of player and play-style, we play often, and spend money often.

That is all there is to it!

Which is all that I was offering. A way to possibly balance it and accommodate all play styles. I've tried to be incredibly civil despite the fact that the main argument hasn't been a debate over viability but rather people being, admittedly even, selfish over others having the option to hide skins.

[Kipper]

Which is all that I was offering. A way to possibly balance it and accommodate all play styles. I've tried to be incredibly civil despite the fact that the main argument hasn't been a debate over viability but rather people being, admittedly even, selfish over others having the option to hide skins.

Yes, which is perfectly legitimate - nobody is arguing with the fact that in a perfect world, you get to have your burger your way.

I'm merely pointing out that I for one would pay less for something when I knew there was an opt-out, and maybe wouldn't buy it at all. Not because I care individually that you saw my new customisation or you didn't, but because if a quarter, or half the player base (even if that figure is assumed) was choosing to remove the only function of these cosmetic items from their game, it would make it a less attractive purchase.

You said you would buy stuff, so riddle me this:

1. Buy item X that you quite like, its $10 and while you won't really see it (its 1st person, not 3rd person), everyone you meet in game will. It has no other function. You will not be any more visible, less visible, powerful or less powerful. If you see 100 people, 100 people will see it. 5% (5) of those people will like it so much they will go and buy it too.

2. Buy item X that you quite like, its $10 and while you won't really see it, half of the people you meet in game will. It has no other function. You will not be any more visible, less visible, powerful or less powerful. If you see 100 people, 50 of them will see it. 5% (2-3) of those people will like it so much they will go and buy it too.

Which sounds like the best deal to both you and the developer?

You said it yourself - when you think something about something and its reasonable - you tend not to be the only person. If a quarter of the playerbase thought like you and turned things off, and a quarter of the playerbase thought like me and didn't buy things on that principle, then it can only result in less revenue - which is bad for everyone.

What you are saying makes sense from a players point of view, but not from that of a games producer who wants to persuade people that buying virtual items is a good use of their disposable income.

[LostAlgorithm]

You said yourself - when you think something about something and its reasonable - you tend not to be the only person. If a quarter of the playerbase thought like you and turned things off, and a quarter of the playerbase thought like me and didn't buy things on that principle, then it can only result in less revenue - which is bad for everyone.

It seems like a very shaky principle to me, one which most wouldn't be able to stick to once they saw a skin that really struck their fancy. I can see a few being stubborn, but I doubt it would last for most.

If in the end profits have to be sacrificed somewhere and someone can't be made happy, I'd prefer all players to have more options and the stubborn players who aren't wanting to spend anything at all to be the ones who move on. It wouldn't be any larger than the number of players lost from the reverse, and all players would be better off due to having an option for an increase in player control.

1. Buy item X that you quite like, its $10 and while you won't really see it (its 1st person, not 3rd person), everyone you meet in game will. It has no other function. You will not be any more visible, less visible, powerful or less powerful. If you see 100 people, 100 people will see it. 5% (5) of those people will like it so much they will go and buy it too.

2. Buy item X that you quite like, its $10 and while you won't really see it, half of the people you meet in game will. It has no other function. You will not be any more visible, less visible, powerful or less powerful. If you see 100 people, 50 of them will see it. 5% (2-3) of those people will like it so much they will go and buy it too.

Which sounds like the best deal to both you and the developer?

It's not a scenario that applies to my proposed system. Before players can hide a skin they'd have to first view it in a previewer or in a screenshot at least. Each skin is individually shown or hidden at the players discretion, so they can still use skins they like. Therefore, the same number of players who enjoy it would be introduced to it and given the option to buy and use it regardless of whether they use the option for hiding skins or not.

[Kipper]

So 2 more questions, if you don't mind.

1. You'd be as happy spending $10 on something that's half as useful (for the one and only use it has) as it could be? Or would you not expect it to cost $5?

By this token - would you go to subway and pay the same amount for a 6" sandwich as you would a 12" one?

2. If you were running the show, how many developer-hours at the associated cost do you propose to use on building a system that doesn't make you any money?

Having this option is unlikely at best to attract any new players, since it won't be an advertised feature. "Fully customisable characters!", "You can turn off peoples fully customised characters!".

[LostAlgorithm]

1. You'd be as happy spending $10 on something that's half as useful (for the one and only use it has) as it could be? Or would you not expect it to cost $5?

See, I disagree on your idea of usefulness. If the player who sees it doesn't care about the skin, it isn't "useful" in any regard either way.

But yeah, I buy things for myself, not for the sake of others. What others think of it doesn't factor into what I buy. The other people who appreciate it are the only others I care about, I don't mind if others hide it, or dislike it, or whatever.

By this token - would you go to subway and pay the same amount for a 6" sandwich as you would a 12" one?

They are very different items, so I disagree with the comparison.

2. If you were running the show, how many developer-hours at the associated cost do you propose to use on building a system that doesn't make you any money?

...I've already said that it would be an option that you would have to buy, and that it should cost more than the cost of a few skins.

Having this option is unlikely at best to attract any new players, since it won't be an advertised feature. "Fully customisable characters!", "You can turn off peoples fully customised characters!".

I wouldn't expect it to be an advertised feature, simply something to add a depth of value and control to players.

[Raka Maru]

To avoid another wall of text, I'm going to risk being very blunt, so please bear with me. I've read through this whole thread and will just give a real case purchase decision coming from my own head.

Hmm, I have over 23 thousand in station cash waiting for PS2 to go live with the cash shop, glad I bought station cash when it was 3x.

Wow, look at all those cool skins. I'll probably blow this all on customizations!

Wait, there's an option for turning this off.... Hmmm.

Don't think I'll be buying any skins.

*Goes back to playing PS2*

Won't be needing to buy any more station cash for this game.

[The Kush]

no you should not be able to turn off customization

[Noivad]

WoW - you people sound like a bunch of girls at a fashion show. oh my that purple is too bright, the blue and gold clash with my camo shirt. lol. this is one of the funniest posts yet. Does not matter what color anyone is. SOE has made the Uniforms look different so you can tell even if your color blind. If the person is, the more colorful, the easy he will be to spot and kill. So if you don't like seeing a paticular color on the enemy kill that one first. The you won't have to see him. Besides the NC are nothing but a rag tag collection of rebels. Some of them don't eben have uniforms. And the VS. Why they are the geeks of the game. haven't ya ever seen how geeks dress - OMG - LOL.
Now the TR - well they always look good in Uniform. That red - grey and black is very distinctive. Oh and then don't forget that Outfits will be able to customize their uniforms so you know who you are fighting or fighting alongside. but keep up this entertaining thread its been entertaining. Thanks :evil:

[Toppopia]

My only concern is will skins override the primary color and stop me from telling the enemy apart from my own people?

If not then everyone should beable to buy whatever skin they want and no one should be able to turn it off, because this is an MMO, people have to beable to try to show their uniqueness somehow.

[Raka Maru]

Empires should have their own distinct color pallet. Colors that the other empires cannot use in any customization tools.

For example, cash shop sells shark tooth nose or infil pinup girl. Allow name and font for girls name or shark with ES colors.

[Raka Maru]

WoW - you people sound like a bunch of girls at a fashion show. oh my that purple is too bright, the blue and gold clash with my camo shirt. lol. this is one of the funniest posts yet. Does not matter what color anyone is. SOE has made the Uniforms look different so you can tell even if your color blind. If the person is, the more colorful, the easy he will be to spot and kill. So if you don't like seeing a paticular color on the enemy kill that one first. The you won't have to see him. Besides the NC are nothing but a rag tag collection of rebels. Some of them don't eben have uniforms. And the VS. Why they are the geeks of the game. haven't ya ever seen how geeks dress - OMG - LOL.
Now the TR - well they always look good in Uniform. That red - grey and black is very distinctive. Oh and then don't forget that Outfits will be able to customize their uniforms so you know who you are fighting or fighting alongside. but keep up this entertaining thread its been entertaining. Thanks :evil:

Heheheh... Was thinking this at first before I went through everything here and finally posted. But TBH, it is a big thing to customize in a world with thousands or millions of players.

Things I'd like to get/see to name a few:
Permanent burns or bullet holes on my vehicles. (skin layer?)
Torn off sleeves.
Scars.
Bandanna.
Cigarettes.
Shark/wolf head/teeth for aircraft/ATV
Cracked visor or bullet hole on helm.
Infil pinup girl on side of aircraft or sundie.

Depends on which char I'm playing... Sorry, got off topic of OP, but wanted to say, I want to customize with skins and they are important. Will not purchase any tho if they are toggleable by the world.

[Sledgecrushr]

Ahh man my dude needs a fat stogie.

[Squiffy]

I agree, I don't want to see someone in rainbow camo and giant red clown shoes.

This is exactly what worries me. How far is customisation going to go? As stated, we're not in yet to see but the ability to differentiate squads on the battlefield is quite exciting to me. We all experienced a strong loyalty to and pride in our outfits before. For me, a high level of custom effects (without losing the faction base look) is highly desirable. TF2 for me has taken it too far. I know that they are "comic" characters but I actually found all the hats appearing annoying. I felt that the devs had basically got as far with the game as possible and added this in for something to prove their worth.

[Sledgecrushr]

TF2 hats is how they are making any money off of that free game. Without a purchase price and without a subscription fee there has to be a way to make money. Hopefully OS2 will provide a huge selection of great high quality skins.

[Raka Maru]

Ahh man my dude needs a fat stogie.

I second this ^

[LostAlgorithm]

I find it disappointing that so many say they would be unwilling to buy skins simply because others paid for the option to hide them. It seems very petty and selfish. I simply cannot understand the reasoning behind so vehemently wanting to force something so pointless onto others for no reason. I dislike what customization has the potential to become, and would simply like to give players options, but it's the ones who are against the idea who really come off as the "bunch of girls at a fashion show", as they just can't stand the idea that they won't look like a special snowflake on everyone's screen. Nevermind that they will still look special to the people who do also care about the skins they've chosen. No, even those who dislike them should be forced to deal with it.

Planetside, to me, is supposed to feel like three vast, serious, and distinctly uniformed armies duking it out. I don't want to feel like I'm grouped up with a bunch of clowns in a rainbow of colors. I want to be part of a distinct, impressive warmachine. Too much customization and it'll just be TF2 in space, but not nearly as clever and ten times as gaudy.

[ArmedZealot]

I find it disappointing that so many say they would be unwilling to buy skins simply because others paid for the option to hide them. It seems very petty and selfish. I simply cannot understand the reasoning behind so vehemently wanting to force something so pointless onto others for no reason. I dislike what customization has the potential to become, and would simply like to give players options, but it's the ones who are against the idea who really come off as the "bunch of girls at a fashion show", as they just can't stand the idea that they won't look like a special snowflake on everyone's screen. Nevermind that they will still look special to the people who do also care about the skins they've chosen. No, even those who dislike them should be forced to deal with it.

http://i.imgur.com/e9beO.jpg

Seriously. People enjoy the game for a multitude of reasons. Everyone has their own view of what the game is supposed to be like and how to enjoy it. Deal with it.

Belittling those that disagree with you isn't a good way to get your argument heard. We are all tempted to do so because we defend what our view of the game is, but in the end it hurts you and the game more than it helps.

[LostAlgorithm]

http://i.imgur.com/e9beO.jpg

Seriously. People enjoy the game for a multitude of reasons. Everyone has their own view of what the game is supposed to be like and how to enjoy it. Deal with it.

Belittling those that disagree with you isn't a good way to get your argument heard. We are all tempted to do so because we defend what our view of the game is, but in the end it hurts you and the game more than it helps.

That's the thing though, I'm not asking for people to stop liking what I dislike. I'm just asking them to let me have my fun too. I won't be impressed by your special armor, so there is zero harm in it. The only people I see harming the game here are those who are unwilling to even ponder accepting an option to give players more control purely because they won't be able to shove their "uniqueness" in everyone's faces.

[ArmedZealot]

That's the thing though, I'm not asking for people to stop liking what I dislike. I'm just asking them to let me have my fun too. I won't be impressed by your special armor, so there is zero harm in it. The only people I see harming the game here are those who are unwilling to even ponder accepting an option to give players more control purely because they won't be able to shove their "uniqueness" in everyone's faces.

Yeah, you are. You are saying our way of fun interferes with your way of fun. So you would like to shut us out. All the while calling us childish, selfish, vain, and petty.

[Kipper]

At risk of repeating myself (again).

The fact that another individual does or does not see a customised skin is not the point of argument. We won't know if you see it or not, just like we won't know if you saw us in the heat of battle or not even if it was switched on.

The fact is that knowing that people CAN turn them off makes them less valuable as a product, which means they'll either not be bought, or expected to be bought for less than otherwise.

You paying for the option to turn it off will not generate the same income as someone who customises often - that is fact. Not unless you buy every item that you want to turn off, but you already said "that could get mighty expensive" - no shit! Coincidentally, it would be about as expensive as it will be for people who buy them to use - in which case, that would be reasonable.

People who customise and invest money into the game will play more often and stay active players for longer because of the personal attachment, sorry, but they are the people who are going to get looked after because they are the people keeping the game alive.

[LostAlgorithm]

Yeah, you are. You are saying our way of fun interferes with your way of fun. So you would like to shut us out. All the while calling us childish, selfish, vain, and petty.

It does interfere with my way of fun, but this whole thread I've been pushing for an option that would work for both of us.

And yes, I do believe the perspective of those against the idea only because they wouldn't be able to show off to people that either don't care or don't want to be shown off to is a childish one.

If an option to pay for the ability to hide them exists, and they buy it, then it's very petty, selfish, and nonsensical to say that you've lost something as a result of that choice. All it means is that a player who didn't want to see your stuff in the first place can't, and he supported the game to have that ability. It's won't change your experience in the slightest, it'll only help improve the overall game itself.

[LostAlgorithm]

You paying for the option to turn it off will not generate the same income as someone who customises often - that is fact. Not unless you buy every item that you want to turn off, but you already said "that could get mighty expensive" - no shit! Coincidentally, it would be about as expensive as it will be for people who buy them to use - in which case, that would be reasonable.

People who customise and invest money into the game will play more often and stay active players for longer because of the personal attachment, sorry, but they are the people who are going to get looked after because they are the people keeping the game alive.

I have the same personal attachment to the regular Empire colors, and will certainly buy customizations that fit within them. You keep separating the players out into those who will use the option and those who won't, and assume that the ones who hide stuff won't still buy customizations and other add-ons. It's an incorrect way to look at it.

The people who don't care to see your skins don't factor into the value of the product anyway. If anything, they'll just ignore you, meaning it might as well have been turned off. The value is already decreased because Joe Schmoe who dislikes it just won't pay attention to it or will be turned off from the game as a result of it.

[Kipper]

It's won't change your experience in the slightest, it'll only help improve the overall game itself.

you're right, it won't change the in game experience - it will however, change how much someone is willing to pay for customisations and how often they'll buy them. Why don't you start a poll and find out if that's true?

Also, you keep talking about yourself - how you'll use this option were it available. You may well use it sparingly, but what of the people who will pay once, turn everything off and never buy anything again?

Stop thinking individually and try to think in terms of what happens across very large numbers of people.

[FPClark]

If you dont like how someone dresses you are more than within your rights to shoot them in game...PS Even if you arent impressed by someones custom armor they are still paying and helping the game and their ability to stand out ingame is their reward.

NOTHING shown has been outlandish or quirky. Honsestly though if there is and people pay for it...Thats their right to wear it...Do what you would do in real life when you see someone wearing something stupid...Ignore them or laugh at them.


EDIT: And to all the people who are saying "OH IT BREAKS THE IMMERSION BLAHDEBLAHDE BLAH...". First of all stupid crazy stuff happens in combat all the time...
http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/2773/unsafehandling3bl8.jpg

[Raka Maru]

I gave fair warning that it could come off blunt the way I replied to this thread. The reason is all we are doing is rehashing.

But honestly, I would not like to see the things happen that you spoke of like clown feet. I doubt the Devs will put ridiculous things like that in the game, but they did mention truck nuts...

I think it will be ok. People will buy cool looking custom skins, I haven't seen any bad ones yet, have you?

[Pyreal]

I think I remember someone saying that Outfits would have unique camo patterns. True, false?

[Purple]

I gave fair warning that it could come off blunt the way I replied to this thread. The reason is all we are doing is rehashing.

But honestly, I would not like to see the things happen that you spoke of like clown feet. I doubt the Devs will put ridiculous things like that in the game, but they did mention truck nuts...

I think it will be ok. People will buy cool looking custom skins, I haven't seen any bad ones yet, have you?

i read somewhere that truck nuts are not going to be in the game.

[Xyntech]

I suppose they could do two types of cosmetic, one normal the other outlandish.

Have the normal ones not be able to be toggled off, but make sure they all look appropriate to the art style and theme of the game and the empire they are for.

Have the outlandish cosmetics not only be able to be toggled off, but have the off setting be the default. These would be ridiculous looking things like giant green afros and clown shoes, but would primarily be for the benefit of the player who purchased them, along with any other people who happened to want the silly stuff turned on.

Maybe best to just avoid the goofy stuff altogether though.

[Raka Maru]

I suppose they could do two types of cosmetic, one normal the other outlandish.

Have the normal ones not be able to be toggled off, but make sure they all look appropriate to the art style and theme of the game and the empire they are for.

Have the outlandish cosmetics not only be able to be toggled off, but have the off setting be the default. These would be ridiculous looking things like giant green afros and clown shoes, but would primarily be for the benefit of the player who purchased them, along with any other people who happened to want the silly stuff turned on.

Maybe best to just avoid the goofy stuff altogether though.


Someone would have to let Devs know that a particular skin is outlandish or not if they will introduce categories. But then again the world would have have the ability to turn it all off again if someone doesn't like your cigar stubb.

Categories:
Military: camo, bullet holes, etc...
Outlandish: top hat, clown feet...
Cute: bunny ears, hello kitty colors...

Who decides? And then all would potentially be perceiving their own worlds... I think the Devs will stick to their military theme and not let us down, from what I've heard them say. But that is me being optimistic.

[Xyntech]

Someone would have to let Devs know that a particular skin is outlandish or not if they will introduce categories. But then again the world would have have the ability to turn it all off again if someone doesn't like your cigar stubb.

Categories:
Military: camo, bullet holes, etc...
Outlandish: top hat, clown feet...
Cute: bunny ears, hello kitty colors...

Who decides? And then all would potentially be perceiving their own worlds... I think the Devs will stick to their military theme and not let us down, from what I've heard them say. But that is me being optimistic.

Yeah I'm really not worried about it myself. I don't really get people having problem with customizations that fit the theme of the game either.

The first game had different looking armor depending on your level. Real life military units throughout history have had differing levels of variation in their 'uniformity.'

Even the whole issue of having a desert camo tank in a snow environment doesn't really seem that big a deal. It's the middle of a war. Maybe it got redeployed before it could be repainted, because better to send a poorly camouflaged tank than no tank at all. Besides, there are warpgates in Planetside, it's not hard to imagine.

I guess the big issue is whether the option to turn them off would devalue the cosmetics though. Maybe a poll would be in order, to see how many people out of the PSU crowd would actually turn them off. Not a perfect sample pool, but what can you do?

Something like:

If given the option, would you toggle viewing customs skins off, or would you leave them visible?
1 - Keep them turned ON, but I wouldn't use cosmetics myself
2 - Keep them turned ON, especially since I would be using cosmetics
3 - Turn them OFF, and I wouldn't use cosmetics either
4 - Turn them OFF, despite the fact I wouldn't be able to see my own cosmetics

[Kipper]

Poll would be a good idea, then we'd know more.

Another interesting thing would be to see whether the ability to toggle them would affect other peoples decisions to buy them.

[Sledgecrushr]

I dont know about a poll, but I would spend 20 bucks for truck nuts to hang off the back of my tank.

[LostAlgorithm]

Something like:

If given the option, would you toggle viewing customs skins off, or would you leave them visible?
1 - Keep them turned ON, but I wouldn't use cosmetics myself
2 - Keep them turned ON, especially since I would be using cosmetics
3 - Turn them OFF, and I wouldn't use cosmetics either
4 - Turn them OFF, despite the fact I wouldn't be able to see my own cosmetics

That poll wouldn't be indicative of the system I was proposing though. There is no reason for option 4 in your poll, as practically no one who uses cosmetics even slightly would ever turn them off if only given a simple opt-in or out option. The system I was proposing was not an opt-in or out system, it was one that let you decide whether to show or hide each individual cosmetic customization.

[Xyntech]

That poll wouldn't be indicative of the system I was proposing though. There is no reason for option 4 in your poll, as practically no one who uses cosmetics even slightly would ever turn them off if only given a simple opt-in or out option. The system I was proposing was not an opt-in or out system, it was one that let you decide whether to show or hide each individual cosmetic customization.

That seems kind of ridiculous. Every time you don't like a custom skin you go find it and toggle it off?

I guess it would be buried enough that it would be unlikely to lower the value of cosmetics, as few players would be anal enough to bother to turn anything off.

As long as they aren't adding anything out of line with the rest of the game though, it seems like kind of a weird and mostly useless feature. It kind of goes against the whole "foliage and clouds can't be toggled" mindset a little as well. If a camo pattern makes a vehicle 5% less visible, let it be so for all players. Likewise if it makes it stand out 20% more.

I'm not inherently against players being able to opt in or out with a lot of stuff, but this one doesn't seem very productive to me.

[LostAlgorithm]

That seems kind of ridiculous. Every time you don't like a custom skin you go find it and toggle it off?

I guess it would be buried enough that it would be unlikely to lower the value of cosmetics, as few players would be anal enough to bother to turn anything off.

What are you talking about? Why would it necessarily be more difficult? It would be handled through a similar system to the way people find them to buy and use them. Either an in-game menu that shows all potential skins whether you own them or not, what you need to do to unlock or buy them, and offers a checkbox that you can click to hide the skin if you purchase the capability to do so. So, if you can find it to use or buy it, you can hide it.

As long as they aren't adding anything out of line with the rest of the game though, it seems like kind of a weird and mostly useless feature. It kind of goes against the whole "foliage and clouds can't be toggled" mindset a little as well. If a camo pattern makes a vehicle 5% less visible, let it be so for all players. Likewise if it makes it stand out 20% more.

I'd prefer there not to be camo, but I unfortunately think it's here to stay, and I do doubt it'll be blocked much as I'd want it to be. Even if it does look really gaudy and out of place, especially on the Vanu stuff.

I'm not inherently against players being able to opt in or out with a lot of stuff, but this one doesn't seem very productive to me.

They've been touting customization from the get go. This would just be one more step in that direction. If they really want to live up to the ideal, then they'll pursue it.

[Kipper]

They've been touting customization from the get go.

So that they can have a way to provide the client for free and without a monthly subscription....

This thread is now officially lol. Every time someone makes a point you don't like, you ignore it or come up with some illogical reason why the bit of the game that makes money for the developers should be toggleable just for you.

Polls have been suggested - if you want to get a feel for what people are thinking (if that hadn't come across enough) then design a non-loaded question and run it. Then we can stop pointlessly repeating ourselves and getting nowhere.

[Pyreal]

"If I pay money for camouflage everyone one else damn well better see it!"

How can the store legitimately offer a cosmetic upgrade like camo when every other player can simply check a box to disable it?

Also, camo has tactical value, not just cosmetic.

[LostAlgorithm]

So that they can have a way to provide the client for free and without a monthly subscription....

This thread is now officially lol. Every time someone makes a point you don't like, you ignore it or come up with some illogical reason why the bit of the game that makes money for the developers should be toggleable just for you.

Polls have been suggested - if you want to get a feel for what people are thinking (if that hadn't come across enough) then design a non-loaded question and run it. Then we can stop pointlessly repeating ourselves and getting nowhere.

I'll make a poll when I have time. I'd want to do it justice and not just throw something together quickly like I usually do with these posts. Sorry if I have other things I have to do as well.

And I'm not ignoring facts, I simply disagree with their perception of the issue. I've been proposing it as a way that would also make money for the developers, a way to further augment their cash flow beyond just the customizations themselves, and to give players further options. And I believe that many who say they'd never purchase skins if a toggle were an option are, well, not lying, but making very premature decisions that they'd likely not follow through on.

[Raka Maru]

This desert cammo really blends me in with the rocks of ish. :)

*KA-chack KA-chack KA-chack*

LOLZ, saw you a mile away you NOOOB! Learn to turn off skinz DOOOD!

:(

[Xyntech]

What are you talking about? Why would it necessarily be more difficult? It would be handled through a similar system to the way people find them to buy and use them. Either an in-game menu that shows all potential skins whether you own them or not, what you need to do to unlock or buy them, and offers a checkbox that you can click to hide the skin if you purchase the capability to do so. So, if you can find it to use or buy it, you can hide it.

That just seems like a lot of work to be going and looking for every cosmetic you don't like in the store and toggling them off. What if you don't like any camo? Do you go through and disable each one individually? Like I said, most players wouldn't be that anal, so it seems like kind of a waste.

Then on the flipside, if they provided features that made it easier to disable specific groups, like being able to search for "camo" and then "select all" and then "disable viewing selected items," we would be right back to the problem of devaluing the cosmetics.

As money grubbing as it may sound, the best solution to this would probably be to only allow a person who has purchased x cosmetic to disable seeing it. That way, at least it would limit the number of people who would be disabling it a little, you would be picking and choosing which ones you really hated, and the game would still be getting funded.

If you don't mind the idea of a subscription, but hate cosmetic items, you could just put away $10 a month to spend on disabling your least favorite cosmetics and consider it your subscription price.

If you do mind the idea of a subscription cost, then you really have no place to complain about how the game makes money.

[IronMole]

Buying aesthetics such as camouflage is no way an advantage as to buying "power" upgrades/weapons.

Being able to disable such a thing (camouflage) is...

[laelgon]

Buying aesthetics such as camouflage is no way an advantage as to buying "power" upgrades/weapons.

Being able to disable such a thing (camouflage) is...

I'm not following the logic on that one. If purchasable camouflage isn't providing an advantage, how is turning of camouflage an advantage. That would seem to indicate that camouflage is providing some edge in combat. This is assuming camouflage patterns actually made you less visible, unlike in most games where they accomplish absolutely nothing.

[Sledgecrushr]

Of course camouflage is an advantage. It is marginal at best. But whats all this camouflage talk. Camouflage is lame and we need bad ass ideas on cosmetic skins they can sell to us.

[kaffis]

"If I pay money for camouflage everyone one else damn well better see it!"

How can the store legitimately offer a cosmetic upgrade like camo when every other player can simply check a box to disable it?

Also, camo has tactical value, not just cosmetic.
This is the reason for my concerns over camo.

If the camouflage is at all useful and "realistic" (i.e., appropriate colors are offered for different terrains and continents to affect visibility), it's a Pay for Advantage feature. If it's not at all useful and "realistic," it's "silly."

I like neither option.

I'd love to see a variety of different designs that heavily feature the primary and secondary empire colors as the predominant colors of the skins. Different patterns of blue and gold, black and red, and purple and teal are (mostly -- TR runs into some problems if there isn't "enough" red on it, since black is a big concealment advantage at night) fine and difficult to argue against, because they're in keeping with the uniform themes established in Planetside, and are all of the very blatant "we stand out so you see us coming" sci-fi vibe that usually grounds itself in "honorable combat" or having sensors so good that visual camo is pointless, or whatever.

I suppose that's another option: An optional "predator view" or "infrared goggles" graphics setting that masks all custom skins with faux heat signatures overlaid with Friend or Foe UI elements. Alternately, you know, we could have 3D spotting in the UI.

Funny how the same guys who don't want us to be able to turn off their camo skins (or wouldn't buy camo skins if we COULD turn them off) seem to be some of the vocal opponents of 3D spotting. You don't think they want to pay to win, do you?

[Toppopia]

I thought i said this somewhere but i can't find my post.

If we can buy camouflage that lets us blend in to our surroundings, it won't give us more than a 20% advantage over someone, because once we shoot, we will be found pretty quickly and most of the time camo is made poorly so we can't even hide. So having camo in this game won't give you an advantage, it will just make you look that much cooler.

[Toppopia]

This is the reason for my concerns over camo.

If the camouflage is at all useful and "realistic" (i.e., appropriate colors are offered for different terrains and continents to affect visibility), it's a Pay for Advantage feature. If it's not at all useful and "realistic," it's "silly."

I like neither option.

I'd love to see a variety of different designs that heavily feature the primary and secondary empire colors as the predominant colors of the skins. Different patterns of blue and gold, black and red, and purple and teal are (mostly -- TR runs into some problems if there isn't "enough" red on it, since black is a big concealment advantage at night) fine and difficult to argue against, because they're in keeping with the uniform themes established in Planetside, and are all of the very blatant "we stand out so you see us coming" sci-fi vibe that usually grounds itself in "honorable combat" or having sensors so good that visual camo is pointless, or whatever.

I suppose that's another option: An optional "predator view" or "infrared goggles" graphics setting that masks all custom skins with faux heat signatures overlaid with Friend or Foe UI elements. Alternately, you know, we could have 3D spotting in the UI.

Funny how the same guys who don't want us to be able to turn off their camo skins (or wouldn't buy camo skins if we COULD turn them off) seem to be some of the vocal opponents of 3D spotting. You don't think they want to pay to win, do you?

Actually depending on the night, NC would be better hidden because the night scene Higby showed was blue, not black, so in those instances which is most of the time, NC will be most hidden.

[LostAlgorithm]

I thought i said this somewhere but i can't find my post.

If we can buy camouflage that lets us blend in to our surroundings, it won't give us more than a 20% advantage over someone, because once we shoot, we will be found pretty quickly and most of the time camo is made poorly so we can't even hide. So having camo in this game won't give you an advantage, it will just make you look that much cooler.

So then people shouldn't be using it as an example of how an option to hide certain skins would be so horrifically unfair to them.

[Toppopia]

So then people shouldn't be using it as an example of how an option to hide certain skins would be so horrifically unfair to them.

What i'm saying is that there should be 2 customisation themes.

1) This theme is the theme everyone sees and is not over the top and fits in with Planetside, like choosing from a certain variety of colors for your empire.

2) This theme contains crazy stuff that people can turn off and is solely for the pleasure of the person using it.

So camo should fit into theme 1 because it fits with the Planetside theme.

[Raka Maru]

This is the reason for my concerns over camo.

If the camouflage is at all useful and "realistic" (i.e., appropriate colors are offered for different terrains and continents to affect visibility), it's a Pay for Advantage feature. If it's not at all useful and "realistic," it's "silly."

I like neither option.

I'd love to see a variety of different designs that heavily feature the primary and secondary empire colors as the predominant colors of the skins. Different patterns of blue and gold, black and red, and purple and teal are (mostly -- TR runs into some problems if there isn't "enough" red on it, since black is a big concealment advantage at night) fine and difficult to argue against, because they're in keeping with the uniform themes established in Planetside, and are all of the very blatant "we stand out so you see us coming" sci-fi vibe that usually grounds itself in "honorable combat" or having sensors so good that visual camo is pointless, or whatever.

I suppose that's another option: An optional "predator view" or "infrared goggles" graphics setting that masks all custom skins with faux heat signatures overlaid with Friend or Foe UI elements. Alternately, you know, we could have 3D spotting in the UI.

Funny how the same guys who don't want us to be able to turn off their camo skins (or wouldn't buy camo skins if we COULD turn them off) seem to be some of the vocal opponents of 3D spotting. You don't think they want to pay to win, do you?

Paying for camo for the terrain of your choice is not the same as purchasing the BFG that also releases auto repair nanos.

For this logic are you saying that all camo should be free? I'm telling you that I wouldn't mind that at all either, but SOE has to sell something in the cash shop and if it's not camo or outlandish, then what is it?

Thinking like a dev, I know camo can give some advantages in blending in, but it's cooler (to some) than the regular ES specific armor. Not too much of an advantage, but people buy it and the game gets funded, SOE makes money, the team gets a raise... Etc.

What's wrong with that? Pay the $2.50 or whatever if you are so concerned. The rest of the game is FTP.

Turning off the ability for skins purchased? I don't see that happening in this business model. You will be ignored because it doesn't make sense to shoot yourself in the foot.

[Sledgecrushr]

Paying for camo for the terrain of your choice is not the same as purchasing the BFG that also releases auto repair nanos.

For this logic are you saying that all camo should be free? I'm telling you that I wouldn't mind that at all either, but SOE has to sell something in the cash shop and if it's not camo or outlandish, then what is it?

Thinking like a dev, I know camo can give some advantages in blending in, but it's cooler (to some) than the regular ES specific armor. Not too much of an advantage, but people buy it and the game gets funded, SOE makes money, the team gets a raise... Etc.
What's wrong with that? Pay the $2.50 or whatever if you are so concerned. The rest of the game is FTP.
Turning off the ability for skins purchased? I don't see that happening in this business model. You will be ignored because it doesn't make sense to shoot yourself in the foot.

This is free to play brothers, on the flip side nothing is really ever free. So you will see everything we have posted about before this and much more. Enjoy the combat, the great camaraderie that is sure to come, but please dont get too irritated about the skins. The skins are going to pay for this experience. If you want pure planetside, there are still PS1 servers working. Buy a subscription and play some pure planetside

[Toppopia]

This is free to play brothers, on the flip side nothing is really ever free. So you will see everything we have posted about before this and much more. Enjoy the combat, the great camaraderie that is sure to come, but please dont get too irritated about the skins. The skins are going to pay for this experience. If you want pure planetside, there are still PS1 servers working. Buy a subscription and play some pure planetside

Not to mention all the internet costs and stuff, the only way this can be truly free to play is if you "borrow" your neighbours internet by knowing their router password. So all in all, this game isn't free :lol:

[LostAlgorithm]

This is free to play brothers, on the flip side nothing is really ever free. So you will see everything we have posted about before this and much more. Enjoy the combat, the great camaraderie that is sure to come, but please dont get too irritated about the skins. The skins are going to pay for this experience. If you want pure planetside, there are still PS1 servers working. Buy a subscription and play some pure planetside

Just because something is free doesn't mean it shouldn't have standards. I can understand that we disagree on those standards, but I don't think it's a very fair argument for either side to ask the other to go back to the original Planetside. It's basically just a very PC way of saying STFU & GTFO.

[Xyntech]

Just because something is free doesn't mean it shouldn't have standards. I can understand that we disagree on those standards, but I don't think it's a very fair argument for either side to ask the other to go back to the original Planetside. It's basically just a very PC way of saying STFU & GTFO.

There are players who will never be happy with Planetside 2 unless it is pretty much a carbon copy of the original game, which would flop and not return any of SOE's investment, so that's never going to happen. So while it may be a bit of a nice way of saying STFU and GTFO, at some point people have to decide if they are okay with the things that are never going to change about PS2 (like F2P), or if they have to give up on it and go play something else.

PS2 is a modern take on Planetside, so if a player wants something more old school, why wouldn't they just go play PS1?

[RSphil]

i love being able to customize my character aslong as you cant make them look like power rangers i dont have a problem.

the desert camo looks great. id say from a distance it looks like it would be effective. which is nice as most games that have camo are a joke and make you stick out more lol.
aslong as the customization stays more military then power ranger im all good :)

[Sledgecrushr]

i love being able to customize my character aslong as you cant make them look like power rangers i dont have a problem.

the desert camo looks great. id say from a distance it looks like it would be effective. which is nice as most games that have camo are a joke and make you stick out more lol.
aslong as the customization stays more military then power ranger im all good :)

If there is a demand for power ranger skins then why not provide that from the cash shop. The skin I want is to turn the atv into a harley with machine guns bolted to the sides.

[Raka Maru]

If there is a demand for power ranger skins then why not provide that from the cash shop. The skin I want is to turn the atv into a harley with machine guns bolted to the sides.

If this is gonna turn into Mad Max, then I want a skin to convert the lightning to an Interceptor. :D

[RSphil]

just to show you not all the camo is strange we British know how to make our aircraft vanish with the proper camo :rofl:

[Sledgecrushr]

just to show you not all the camo is strange we British know how to make our aircraft vanish with the proper camo :rofl:

I love the camo on that jet. You see there is a psychological element to war as well, and standing out like that will intimidate your enemy. Now if you dont have the skill to back it up the intimidation wont last long.

[Malorn]

Empire colors must always be prominent on any customization. Its important for target recognition.

I'm really not a fan of the zebra and giraffe and hearts shit, that's getting into the realm of making planetside 2 look like a carnival. It's ridiculous and silly and also make sit harder to identify the empire. I don't like things that make it harder to identify the faction of the target.

Camo is ok, so long as empire colors are still clearly present.

[megamold]

i'm not 100% convinced on the somewhat more whacky camo either, but i see why they did it and understand why its needed

what makes planetside work is players, lots of players.
going f2p will make sure there will be lots of players, however the downside is you need to sell stuff, and selling realistic style camo can only take you so far.

so i'm not really liking the zebra camo ( and will not buy it either ) but if it gives ps2 a longer and more active lifespan then ps1 i think they made the right call.

[Vanu Techpriest]

I saw someone with a gold plated pistol during the livestream and I've decided that I want a solid gold Magrider that gleams brightly in the sun as I destroy the NC and TR scum.

[Jonny]

I for one think the woodland and desert camo look great, especially on Vanguards!

My only worry, as i've stated before is the quality of the giraffe/zebra skins. They need to look as good as default player/vehicle skins with fading/dust scratches - like they are war painted on. I also don't want to see this game getting too ridiculous with the additions - I stopped playing TF2 because of how much unconsidered junk they filled the game with.

[RSphil]

Empire colors must always be prominent on any customization. Its important for target recognition.

I'm really not a fan of the zebra and giraffe and hearts shit, that's getting into the realm of making planetside 2 look like a carnival. It's ridiculous and silly and also make sit harder to identify the empire. I don't like things that make it harder to identify the faction of the target.

Camo is ok, so long as empire colors are still clearly present.

i agree. from the pics we have seen so far though the empire colors still easy to see, also the soldiers have a different shape aswel to make recognition a little easier. loving the real camo's like the desert one and jungle. Would love to see some digital camo come into play aswell though. i actually like the F/A18 in the digital camo.