This'll make you think - torture

[Navaron]

Here's an editorial by Buchanan on torture.

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/patbuchanan/pb20030310.shtml

Whaddya think?

[Mtx]

Lowering yourself to their level makes you no better than them.

No exceptions..

[Hamma]

I agree with mtx here (scary)

I heard him spouting off about this on Buchanan and Press (msnbc)

[Squeeky]

:(

Torture is just bad

[mistled]

I'm not sure what I think. It depends on what you consider torture I think. If I had valuable information and was captured by the enemy, I fully expect to be reduced to a bloody pulp as they try to retrieve it. I have no problem with that. They are trying to save themselves by getting information from me, so that's fine. Saving lives is worth the beating of an individual.

I also do not believe the above to be torture.

Having established that I have no problem using pain to gain information (how else do you expect to get it from someone who hates you??), this brings us to the question of why I don't agree with the concept of torture. Isn't it also just using pain to get information?? Logically, I think it is, and so I should be for torturing him for the information. Maybe it's just my societal conditioning that causes me to not be initially.

Having said all that, let me state that I think torture for the sake of torture is wrong. But, then again, I also think just beating the hell out of your prisioners is wrong too, even when it's not torture. (not that I would complain about some marines who hit some taliban just because they are there)

- mistled

[Navaron]

Here's a little info on how our interrogation process works. We beat the hell out of them. If they continue to not respond, we threaten to send them to Jordan or Egypt, who are the coldest interrogation sum bitches ever. So I guess you could say we sub-contract out our torture. However, the threat of the trip to Egypt usually is enough.

[Mtx]

Ah great.. my country is led by hipacrits.

[Sputty]

Anything Pat Buchanan says is wrong. He says every country/race/religion that isn't his own is basically wrong...

[simba]

its right to use against ppl that wont speak

[Mtx]

Originally posted by simba
its right to use against ppl that wont speak

So what if you don't know the answer to the question you are being asked? It's okay for me to beat you to death?

****************
MTX: Where's Waldo!

Simba: I told you *gasp* I don't know.

MTX: Lier!!

*begins beating Simba with a trout*



:D

[Navaron]

I'm not posting my pov on this on purpose, but MTX, you have a bad habit of taking things out of context.

[Sputty]

Waldo must be protected!!! Don't talk Simba!!!

[Mtx]

Originally posted by {BOHICA}Navaron
I'm scared of posting my opinion because MTX owns me.

That's right!

:p

Simba will tell me where Waldo is. Either that or I drop this hungry lobster in Sputtys pants. :chomp:

:lol:

[mistled]

Don't start posting lies about people. It's a good way to get banned. (yes, I know you're playing, but don't change people's words and quote them)

[simba]

Originally posted by Mtx
So what if you don't know the answer to the question you are being asked? It's okay for me to beat you to death?

****************
MTX: Where's Waldo!

Simba: I told you *gasp* I don't know.

MTX: Lier!!

*begins beating Simba with a trout*



:D


:) you must be sure if he knows before ;)

[Navaron]

http://www.planetside-universe.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2237&perpage=15&highlight=libel&pagenumber=1

I know you were joking MTX - cause it's an obvious joke. But the last time someone did quote changes like that, hamma laid the law down with the consequences of ban and locking of the thread. Just so everyone knows.

[simba]

I wont talk sputty!!! waldo must be protected, whoever that might be!

[Bighoss]

I believe in torture of enemies to get information. I will continue to until there is a more efficent way.

[Confectrix]

I'm suprised Pat would say all of this; usually we agree on most things.

Toture is and always will be against the postive, natural and moral laws. Pat's pathetic logic doesn't do justice in my opinion.

"The end never justifies the means."

[Navaron]

I pose an addition to the question - what if the guy is going to be killed anyway? In that case, he really has no reason to talk.

[Mtx]

Originally posted by {BOHICA}mistled
Don't start posting lies about people.


You don't happen to be Cathlic do you?

[Confectrix]

What difference would that make?

[Mtx]

It doesn't make a difference.

[Pilgrim]

In the next presidential election ahmina vote for Buchanon!!!

I mean, really, why bother voting for the Lesser evil!

[Confectrix]

MTX:

I don't get it then?

[Mtx]

I was trying to draw religion into the political debate.. you screwed that up.

:mad:

[Confectrix]

Yes; I know. So then it did make a difference.

You screwed up your own plan.

[Moloch]

vote libertarian!!! Even if it means throwing it away! at least they don't recylce ballots like the repubs and democrats.

[Headrattle]

Originally posted by Bighoss
I believe in torture of enemies to get information. I will continue to until there is a more efficent way.

Ahh but there is a more efficent way.

I posted this in a different forum but I will post it again.

The main problem with torture, besides ethics. is that it doesn't work. That is right. No Workie.

I can get someone to say anything I want if I torture them long enough. If this was an inquisition then that would be fine. But when you are trying to stop more terrorism then getting incorrect information just isn't going to do anything constructive. And could very well set you back.
In other words, tearing someones teeth out while yelling "IS IT SAFE." Will get every answer possible. "Yes, it's safe! No, it isn't safe! Just stop the pain!!

Example? In Vietnam all they wanted was for the service men to admit that they were bombing schools and targetting civilians. If they did that, the torture will stop. They will be set free. So people did just that. Some held out, but many broke. They admitted to stuff they never did.

No, what you do is mental. You break them down, you don't let them sleep. You let them drink only water. You give them only rice to eat. You have them stand for days at a time. You put them in a room with nothing to sleep on by the cold floor, and you have bright lights on constantly so they lose track of time. This way they are living, and for the most part healthy. They just aren't confortable. You let them stew in this for a while then you give them chances to get out. "Tell us who is helping you and we will give you a bed." Ect. You do this for WEEKS!

Tired, hungry, and miserable he will, sooner or later, tell you what you want to know. This is how the US does most of it's torture.

Oh, for the record, there is no real truth drug. The CIA researched that for years (and came up with LSD I think.)
Sodium Pentithol (sp?) is close but all it does is make him more suggestive. That way you can make him believe that he is back home talking to his mom. But getting the information out of him is still hard. You have to figure out what cercumstances it will take for him to spill the right info.

I just read an article about this.

[vulcan]

hi, I agree with buchananshhkd. ya.

[Mtx]

Originally posted by Headrattle

But getting the information out of him is still hard. You have to figure out what cercumstances it will take for him to spill the right info.


*a few hours after entering the bar*

Enclave: This one time when my wife was out of town... hic...

[Dharkbayne]

zingo!

[Jakal]

head rattle is right i heard that they were playing on not allowing him to sleep. if that goes on for to long the person will eventually go insane as his mind begins to shut down from lack of sleep. I dont think that would be useful though cause insane ppl arent that reliable

[Sputty]

Don't try to resurrect a long dead thread.