Bunny hopping

[RSphil]

iv played alot of FPS's and tested alot.

one gripe i have with alot of them are players who bunny hop to kill you.
is this a problem in ps1 and will be a problem in ps2?

battlefield combated this by stopping you shooting while jumping and you dont see it in bf3 as you dont jump that high cus you actually physically jump over obstacles now so people dont bother.

[DayOne]

If they only allow hip fire and/or make you extremely inaccurate when jumping it shouldn't be an issue.

[ringring]

It was not a problem in ps1 because there was a 'stamina' thing.

Jumping consumed stamina and without stamina you were toast. People preferred to keep stamina for surge (aka sprinting), darklight (being able to see nearby cloakers) or personal shield (momentary armour boost).

I don't think there is stamina in ps2and if not I hope something else would prevent thins type of thing.

[TheRagingGerbil]

There is a stamina/jump gauge that limits the amount of jumping/jet-packing, plus there is COF bloom that makes it completely impractical to shoot while jumping. No worries mate.

If you watch the 45-minute gameplay video you can see both of these things in effect.

[Kran De Loy]

I think there were two different methods to simulating weapons fire in PS2. I think it's Cone of Fire bloom as well as something like the bullets themselves still travel in a strait line relative to the recoil. So recoil and CoF are treated with two different systems but melded together to seamlessly work simultaneously.

CoF would be affected by moving around like walking, running or jumping. The CoF would also affect the recoil control making it more erratic, too.

Or at least that is what I thought.. I'm not entirely sure anymore.

[Immigrant]

It was already discussed somewhere. I believe people said it should be made so you can't fire while jumping and also each jump should be weaker than previous if consecutive until you couldn't jump at all for awhile.

[Kipper]

Nobody likes a bunny hopper, its frustrating and its immersion breaking. I trust it's been thought of early on.

I wouldn't be surprised if you couldn't even jump. With PS2's scale, you are less likely to need to have to jump over something that you can just walk around.

They may even have it so that you naturally climb over smallish obstacles, whereas bigger ones are there to stop you moving past them (unless you have a jetpack).

[Kran De Loy]

Bah! Where is that? Not being able to fire while jumping is lame as hell!
What if you wanted to fire while just falling? Bail out of an aircraft over some of the enemy and throw everything I could at the troops on the ground before I splat was one of my favorite things to do when I knew I was gonna die anyway.

Not being able to jump would be even worse! WTH!

[TheRagingGerbil]

There is definitely jumping and firing at the same time. At least as seen in the vids. And jetpacking and firing. Higby has stated that this is a valid technique actually.

I just dont see you hitting anything because of the COF bloom. And with the jump gauge it will need to be used sparingly.

[Immigrant]

Bah! Where is that? Not being able to fire while jumping is lame as hell!
What if you wanted to fire while just falling? Bail out of an aircraft over some of the enemy and throw everything I could at the troops on the ground before I splat was one of my favorite things to do when I knew I was gonna die anyway.

Not being able to jump would be even worse! WTH!

We've got a hopper! :rofl: In ME you couldn't jump yet it didn't ruin the game at all for me. Jumping is ok, but with no restrictions we'll get a shitload of hoppers abusing it and breaking the immersion.

[Purple]

i think the bigger issue is warping aka quickly pressing a and d in a firefight.

[Kran De Loy]

Bunny hopping is more about games with mechanics that encouraged the practice than it was about ones that discouraged it. Current games need to discourage people from bunny hopping to break people of the habit even when it's not actually beneficial.

Like Painkiller and Red Orchestra.

To me having a game add in arbitrary restrictions on something so mundane isn't game breaking but it is aggravating as hell.

[Kipper]

To me having a game add in arbitrary restrictions on something so mundane isn't game breaking but it is aggravating as hell.

If there's nothing to jump over, there's simply no reason to be able to jump.

If you're carrying 50kg of body armour and assault rifle, then I'd argue running would be hard enough, never mind jumping repeatedly.

Even if you make it ridiculously pointless in terms of being able to shoot someone else (though you could get lucky), its annoying because its hard to track and shoot these people as well as it just looking dumb.... and some people won't grasp the futility and continue to do it anyway, making the game look dumb.

Bunny hoppers are usually the same people who then manage to knife you in the face when you've unloaded a full clip into/at them.

[Stardouser]

You have to be able to jump. Also, BC2 does this better than BF3. BF3 movement is too restrictive, BC2 handled it by making your second or third jump very impotent.

[Block]

Bunny hoppers are usually the same people who then manage to knife you in the face when you've unloaded a full clip into/at them.

Exactly, better players. It's not often you see a bad player bunny hopping (and if you do, who cares about them..right), they are usually the ones ending the round at the top, not because they bunny hop but because they are generally faster more accurate players.

All this "it breaks the immersion" malarky... it's just a cover up, sounds better than "OMG he jumped and shooted me, and I can't win"

Doesn't matter if you try to inhibit a BHopper they will always find other ways to "break your immersion"

[Kipper]

Exactly, better players. It's not often you see a bad player bunny hopping (and if you do, who cares about them..right), they are usually the ones ending the round at the top, not because they bunny hop but because they are generally faster more accurate players.

Nobody that's sensible has a problem with other players being better than they are, and nobody can blame a player from wanting to use effective tactics.

There is however, plenty of scope to make a game that allows you to benefit from being skilful without it looking ridiculous. If you make doing it neutral or a disadvantage then people won't do it.

I'm not saying you shouldn't be able to jump; I'm just saying that there's no reason to include it if there's no reason to do it.

[Unforgiven]

i hate bunny hoppers, ever see someone IRL jump in the air when the shoot? OF COURSE NOT! the recoil would probably put you on your back!

[Stardouser]

i hate bunny hoppers, ever see someone IRL jump in the air when the shoot? OF COURSE NOT! the recoil would probably put you on your back!

I think it's important to point out that bunny hopping means something different to different people. To you, it seems you're thinking of firing while jumping. To other people, they are thinking of just the jumping mechanic itself regardless of whether they shoot or not. Still others are worried about dolphin diving.

There can be no dolphin diving in PS2, and you should not be able to shoot while jumping(although you should be able to throw a grenade while jumping). With those two things in place, anyone wanting to nerf jumping back to the stone age is basically saying "how dare you avoid my shots".

[Block]

Trying to limit someone elses ability/freedom because:
You don't do it (insert misguided reason)
It's not realistic (neither are flying tanks and space ships etc etc)
Blah blah blah
Is inherently negative and imo wrong, really hope there won't be any artificial block to shooting while jumping, that would be quite drastic and silly.

(the realism arguement is a funny one...what about action films? People jump around shooting people in the face all the time and no one thinks the films are bad because of it)

[RSphil]

I think it's important to point out that bunny hopping means something different to different people. To you, it seems you're thinking of firing while jumping. To other people, they are thinking of just the jumping mechanic itself regardless of whether they shoot or not. Still others are worried about dolphin diving.

There can be no dolphin diving in PS2, and you should not be able to shoot while jumping(although you should be able to throw a grenade while jumping). With those two things in place, anyone wanting to nerf jumping back to the stone age is basically saying "how dare you avoid my shots".

i agree with you on this. it dosent bother me much as i still shoot them in the head but it looks stupid and hate seeing battles with 3-4 guys bouncing around the map.

[RSphil]

(the realism arguement is a funny one...what about action films? People jump around shooting people in the face all the time and no one thinks the films are bad because of it)

they jump sideways though and land on their side ect. not up and down like a demented rabbit lol. :rofl:

[SniperSteve]

Jumping and shooting in real life is hard and stupid, but possible to do. The same should be true for PS2.

[RSphil]

Jumping and shooting in real life is hard and stupid, but possible to do. The same should be true for PS2.

lol you aint wrong. ever tired it with a SA80? never hit shit lol:groovy:

[Rbstr]

Jumping and shooting in real life is hard and stupid, but possible to do. The same should be true for PS2.

Exactly. With the modern aiming mechanic, it should be possible just at very low accuracy levels.
Combined with stamina/sprint mechanics bunny-hopping shouldn't be an issue.

[RNFB]

Bunny hopping should stay in Quake

[Rumblepit]

did they say stamina was implemented???? or is that hear say?the reason i ask is the topic has been brought up before and at that point in time it was a concern because they didnt say anything about stamina. also id like to point out, bunny hopping with a AR is one thing,but bunny hopping with a shotty is another.

[Neurotoxin]

Light Assault is the only infantry class that has any business being off their feet in a firefight.

[TheRagingGerbil]

did they say stamina was implemented???? or is that hear say?the reason i ask is the topic has been brought up before and at that point in time it was a concern because they didnt say anything about stamina. also id like to point out, bunny hopping with a AR is one thing,but bunny hopping with a shotty is another.

Don't know if it is called stamina or not, but there is a Gauge on the hud that charges upon spawn and is consumed as Higby is jumping. Jump jetting uses the same gauge. Watch the gameplay vids, its down in the lower right corner.

[Hmr85]

Bunny hopping in PS1 was a free trip to the spawn tubes. It looked stupid and accomplished nothing. If staminas still in the game in PS2 it will be just the same another free kill and a idiot we can make fun at over TS.

Bunny hopping just doesn't work when 20 other guys are shooting at you. Leaving cover when advancing on the enemy was a death sentence in the middle of the giant battles in ps1. It will be even worse in ps2 with the bigger pop.

[Metalsheep]

In Planetside 1 there was not bunny hoppers because of the Stamina bar, it was because of the lack of Hit Boxes. This was only useful really with MAX units cause sometimes the sudden thrust will make a Deci rocket miss you.

The reason a player bunny hops is to get a better vantage point on your head, and suddenly move upwards in an unpredictable direction.

In combat, aiming upwards is harder than aiming downwards. Its why having the high ground is much easier to defend and fight from. When I jump, i move my heads hitbox suddenly up into the air, possibly obscuring it with my avatars Arms/Gun/Torso, which will take less damage per hit than you shooting my head. While at the same time, lifting me higher up into the air where my only targets on you are your head and shoulders. POP, headshot, and i took less damage. If your a terrible shot i might have taken no damage by suddenly jumping in an unpredictable direction. Usually only skilled players bunny hop effectivly because aiming is harder while moving through the air.

The only way to truely stop Bunny Hopping in a FPS is to eaither A: Have no hitbox/headshot based damage. or B: Do not allow players to jump. Ever. Because even if my aim goes to shit while in the air, i still have a higher chance of shooting your head off, than you have of shooting mine. Since Bunny Hopping is typically a close/medium-close range tactic.

The Stamina bar will only slightly mitigate bunny hopping. You cant eliminate bunny hoppers as long as there is a Jump button.

[Rumblepit]

Don't know if it is called stamina or not, but there is a Gauge on the hud that charges upon spawn and is consumed as Higby is jumping. Jump jetting uses the same gauge. Watch the gameplay vids, its down in the lower right corner.



i see the gauge your talking about along with 2 others. 1 is health,the other is shield , and the one you are referring to appears to only move when a jetpack is used.

dont think there is stamina.

watch the 45 min alpha gameplay video. 15:20 in he is using his jetpack and it takes away from the gauge you speak of then right after that he jumps and nothing happens, gauge dose not move.

[sylphaen]

There can be no dolphin diving in PS2, and you should not be able to shoot while jumping(although you should be able to throw a grenade while jumping).

I hate bunny hoppers but I see no problem with dolphin diving or shooting while jumping or shooting while bailing. The fire was so wildly inaccurate in PS1 that you were basically counting on luck to hit the target.

Now the day I finished off a mosquito with my pulsar (switched on the spot to AV because as Vanu, we can just do that and own) while bailing from the tail-gun spot of a lib at height ceiling is one of those PS1 stories I will remember a long time. One only gets so lucky once in a looooong while...
:thumbsup:

(and yes, it does mean that I failed to take down the mossie with the tailgun and that the lib blew up. But I survived the encounter ! :D)

I am against forceful restrictions that stop you from firing. If you think you have a chance to hit, you should be able to take a chance even if it is inaccurate.

Now jumping 45 times in a row, yeah, that gets annoying fast... Jumping in PS was a nice trade-off since implants and running required stamina.

[Talek Krell]

As far as I know there's no mechanic specifically against jumping, though it's been ages since I saw anything on it. The inaccuracy of it will probably be enough to dissuade most people, but if it becomes an issue they could always reduce the benefit of repeated jumps.

[Toppopia]

Most games nowadays make it that after 2-3 jumps you barely lift off the ground, that would be the easiest way to stop people doing this.

[Hamma]

Bunny Hopping in FPS is probably something I hate more than ANY other item combined. I hope they do everything they can to prevent it from being a valid tactic.

[Xyntech]

Jumping and shooting (inaccurately) is fine. Bunny hopping in Quake or UT is fine. I just don't want to see it in a game like this.

Conversely, I also don't want to see every player being forced to go into iron sights just to shoot a guy down a corridor. I don't care if some players choose to obsessively use iron sights, but it shouldn't be mandatory. I think there can be a nice balance between twitch shooting and slow tactical play in PS2.

Bunny hopping really hasn't been an issue in games for a long time though. I feel like it's mostly getting brought up for Planetside 2 because it was an issue in the original Planetside early on, before they made the stamina penalization more extreme.

We're a long ways from 2003. There is no way they are letting that shit into a game made in 2012.

The devs have already stated that trying to bunny hop will do nothing but make you look foolish.

[Kipper]

I do think iron sights should be beneficial beyond short range though... On assault rifles at least.

[Talek Krell]

I do think iron sights should be beneficial beyond short range though... On assault rifles at least.Sure, but there's no particular reason it couldn't vary from weapon to weapon, or customization to customization.

[Figment]

Regarding bunny hopping, mostly concerned with how exactly jumpjets will work.

[Toppopia]

If any one has played Star Wars Battlefront (The first one) Then there were 2 units with jet packs, 1 unit had 1 which propelled you basically straight up in the air or forward if you ran and jumped at the right time, were as the other unit just used it to hover or fly across a gap, i would like a combination of those 2 packs, maybe a side grade so you can either be a fast moving quick jump, or a slow continuous flight for a longer time.

[Xyntech]

I do think iron sights should be beneficial beyond short range though... On assault rifles at least.

Sure, but at medium range it should be a play style choice, where there are some upsides and some downsides.

Of course there should be only benefits to using iron sights at long range, but I don't think most players have a huge problem with that.

Jumping while firing should just generally be a bad idea, due to horrible accuracy, but it should still be an option. Maybe I am standing on a ledge 4 feet above an enemy and want to fire at him as I jump over him. At point blank range, the horrible accuracy should still be good enough to hit them, while jumping over their head may make it difficult for them to return fire.

Low accuracy and being unable to jump as well after a few jumps is good enough. Most games do this stuff and I'm sure the devs are already on top of it.

[Graywolves]

Despite how prevalent bunny hopping is - It's very easy to fix with a stamina bar.


It doesn't even need to be used for anything else. Just have 1/4 of it disapear when someone jumps and then they can only walk (like in PS1) until it's recharged.



PS1 heavily punished you for trying to bunny-hop in PS1 as your CoF bloom became huge and you were stuck walking very slowly until you stood still long enough for 20stamina recharge.

[Toppopia]

One thing i love about Modern Warfare 3 is that i can choose stalker and walk around in iron sights the whole time, that is one way to promote iron sight usage, just make sure you don't move too much slower then i will be happy. Unless its a sidegrade for the gun to beable to do that?

[Udnknome]

Jumping and shooting in real life is hard and stupid, but possible to do. The same should be true for PS2.

Agreed, as long as the COF goes to max or the recoil practically knocks the gun out your hand on consecutive shots.

Maybe one shot with accuracy... after that, you're gonna need .6 seconds to re-position your gun in your grip. (jumping minigun? no, just no)

sure... do it, but make it as hard as real life

[CutterJohn]

Restrict iron sights, and make the cof crazy. Nothing else is needed.


If people want to jump all day, I have no issue with it. Its just as ridiculous as running nonstop across an entire continent with a full kit and not being winded or keeling over dead. Or taking a bullet to the head/chest and not being completely incapacitated.

[RawketLawnchair]

Bunnyhopping wasn't originally a feature.

More like an abused engine flaw.


So, I don't see it happening in this game. Especially with stamina.

[Hypevosa]

if there's an obstacle nearby (rock, atv, low wall, etc), jumping is enabled (but not a scripted action), if there isn't, it's not. Problem solved.

[Figment]

It's more like an extra high jump than a Tribes-like jetpack. There is one moment in the gameplay vid (at 35 mins or so) where a guy is running around in light armor, and boosts himself onto a 5-6m high compound. You can see an icon in the lower right shaped like a jetpack that drains from 100% to ~20% with that single jump. Then it recharges to 100% in about 12 seconds.

There will probably be certs that reduce the energy drain, or increase energy recharge, but it will certainly not be a full fledged jetpack.

Hmhm, it's the extend of sidegrading though if you can make a lot of smaller, faster hops for instance or just a few big hops.

Beyond that, I wouldn't expect bunny hopping to be prevalent. One of the first things devs should think of when designing a FPS after all.

[Block]

Jumping while firing should just generally be a bad idea, due to horrible accuracy, but it should still be an option. Maybe I am standing on a ledge 4 feet above an enemy and want to fire at him as I jump over him. At point blank range, the horrible accuracy should still be good enough to hit them, while jumping over their head may make it difficult for them to return fire.

Low accuracy and being unable to jump as well after a few jumps is good enough. Most games do this stuff and I'm sure the devs are already on top of it.

Exactly..it's been solved imo no point going on about it. Still it's probably not draconian enough for those that don't like jumping and shooting, hence why people get kicked from servers for - Jumping around corners - Jumping once and shooting.

Think we need to clarify the definition:

BunnyHopping - Bouncing around the map constantly (shooting or not)
Think we all agree thats slightly anoying to say the least, add shooting into the mix and it's a problem. But this has been fixed in most(if not all) games already.

BunnyHopping - Jumping and shooting, this is the one people don't agree on.

I personally don't think jumping should have too much more impact on accuracy than running does. I just feel everytime a game tries to artificially inhibit someones freedom it leads to that game becoming more and more bland. It doesn't seem like much, but this stuff breeds on the forums and eventually after all the complaining - nerfing - complaining - nerfing... the game ends up rubbish.

[Kipper]

I personally don't think jumping should have too much more impact on accuracy than running does.

Well, this is the trick.

I'm one for getting down into some cover, popping up, using iron sights, short bursts and generally trying to stay alive and make shots count - that's just the way I prefer to play, I like it when strategy > twitch.

Saying that however, sometimes there is no substitute for charging down a corridor guns blazing, if that's what its going to take to create an opening (sometimes even if you die, it can disorientate the enemy enough to break a stalemate situation for your buddies to exploit).

We do need to be able to effectively crouch/aim, walk/shoot, run/shoot, jetpack/shoot and I dare say even jump/shoot - but we need it so that whatever you choose to do is a trade-off, so that one tactic doesn't become THE tactic.

Bunny hopping is annoying when it's OP - when aimed shots are less effective than hopping 50 metres towards your enemy for 50 metres and then knifing them, then you're out of balance. Likewise when moving and shooting is as accurate as standing still/crouching and shooting, and when jumping is faster than walking.

In some situations, being in cover and aiming should reward you, while in others, moving (walking or running, sights or not) should be appropriate. very occasionally, jumping (ie. from a building) should the most viable. Its just about finding a balance that promotes variety.

[Block]

Agreed :D

[CutterJohn]

We do need to be able to effectively crouch/aim, walk/shoot, run/shoot, jetpack/shoot and I dare say even jump/shoot - but we need it so that whatever you choose to do is a trade-off, so that one tactic doesn't become THE tactic.

I'm fairly sure that different weapons will cover these things just fine. For instance, MCGs, which do not have sights, will handle much differently than LMGs, which do. One will be far more of a run and gun weapon, and the other a get a good spot and aim weapon.

There does not need to just be one playstyle.

[Blackwolf]

Exactly, better players. It's not often you see a bad player bunny hopping (and if you do, who cares about them..right), they are usually the ones ending the round at the top, not because they bunny hop but because they are generally faster more accurate players.

All this "it breaks the immersion" malarky... it's just a cover up, sounds better than "OMG he jumped and shooted me, and I can't win"

Doesn't matter if you try to inhibit a BHopper they will always find other ways to "break your immersion"

What he said.

I like games that are realistic and all, so unlimited bunny hopping is... dumb... But a stamina bar or progressively weaker jumps, eh. Still gives enough of an edge.

All this "immersion" stuff sounds a lot like "my controller is broken" comments. Otherwise known as excuses.

i hate bunny hoppers, ever see someone IRL jump in the air when the shoot? OF COURSE NOT! the recoil would probably put you on your back!

Uhh, if the recoil doesn't put you on your ass on the ground, chances are it's not going to do much better while your in the air. Physics tells us that the force that keeps you on your feet, is your body weight, not the fact that you have a foot planted half a mile behind your ass. Reckless and dangerous I'll give you, but nothing stops you from doing it none the less.

And, hello, CoF is a terrible way to simulate reality anyway, unless you always fire from the hip. If you aim the weapon you should always have a fairly good idea of where your bullets will land. Not spray out this wild cone of bullets that are just as likely to fly low as high, without ever knowing where or how your weapon is moving.

[Gonefshn]

I'm with everyone that believes this wont even be an issue with forgelight.

With all the talk of modernizing the game to FPS standards and having realistic bullet physics and realistic vehicle physics you can see where they are headed with this game. Not necessarily matching BF3 in TTK but taking the realistic approach where your recoil and COF vary greatly based on your actions.

Bunny hopping is from games like Halo and Unreal where guns pretty much fire with the same accuracy no matter what you are doing. The only games that really have bunny hopping are games that pretty much seem to acknowledge it and include it on purpose. It's an oldschool idea from a dying age of shooters that only some new games like Nexuiz will feature (and this game markets itself as an oldschool shooter).

[Blackwolf]

I'm with everyone that believes this wont even be an issue with forgelight.

With all the talk of modernizing the game to FPS standards and having realistic bullet physics and realistic vehicle physics you can see where they are headed with this game. Not necessarily matching BF3 in TTK but taking the realistic approach where your recoil and COF vary greatly based on your actions.

Bunny hopping is from games like Halo and Unreal where guns pretty much fire with the same accuracy no matter what you are doing. The only games that really have bunny hopping are games that pretty much seem to acknowledge it and include it on purpose. It's an oldschool idea from a dying age of shooters that only some new games like Nexuiz will feature (and this game markets itself as an oldschool shooter).

Wow. There's a paradox in there.

[Toppopia]

Wow. There's a paradox in there.

Can we poke it and cause the space time continuum to rip apart the very fabric of reality!?!?

And i think the devs will have a good solution, and the only times i would jump is to get away from an explosion to look cool :D

[Gonefshn]

Wow. There's a paradox in there.

LOL. Reading back over my post I found a few things you could be referring to and I'm curious what your poking at. If I do cause the fabric of reality to melt away. WIN.

[Blackwolf]

LOL. Reading back over my post I found a few things you could be referring to and I'm curious what your poking at. If I do cause the fabric of reality to melt away. WIN.

It's that whole "I believe this won't be an issue" part followed by "bunnyhopping is only an issue in oldschool shooters (and PS2 advertises itself as an oldschool shooter)" thing. :)

This statement is false.

[Block]

Can we poke it and cause the space time continuum to rip apart the very fabric of reality!?!?

Only if you cert the flux capacitor upgrade!

[Gonefshn]

It's that whole "I believe this won't be an issue" part followed by "bunnyhopping is only an issue in oldschool shooters (and PS2 advertises itself as an oldschool shooter)" thing. :)

LOL :lol:

Except kind sir you misread my post, not entirely your doing I can see how it might be misread.

It's an oldschool idea from a dying age of shooters that only some new games like Nexuiz will feature (and this game markets itself as an oldschool shooter).

By this game I meant Nexuiz not Planetside 2, do you see it now? :p

[Blackwolf]

LOL :lol:

Except kind sir you misread my post, not entirely your doing I can see how it might be misread.



By this game I meant Nexuiz not Planetside 2, do you see it now? :p

Aww I wanted to 'splode. Sad GIR.

[Block]

do you see it now? :p

I see Vanu lipstick in you're sig :D

[Gonefshn]

I see Vanu lipstick in you're sig :D

Thanks for the compliment :groovy:

Aww I wanted to 'splode. Sad GIR.

My life almost had meaning. Being the one who destroyed the universe would have pretty much put me ahead of anyone in the history books.

P.S. possible paradox in this post???!!!

[Block]

Thanks for the compliment :groovy:

Hehe, sorry bored and drunk :D

[Metalsheep]

Cause Halo is totally part of a "Dying" age of shooters...

[Xyntech]

Cause Halo is totally part of a "Dying" age of shooters...

I thought that Planetside had no similarities of any kind to Halo at all, ever, no matter how obscure.

Shiiiiiit, I don't know what to believe anymore.

[Gonefshn]

Cause Halo is totally part of a "Dying" age of shooters...

Halo is in no way a dying shooter but it's gameplay mechanics started off with Combat evolved with very oldschool controls and gameplay. No one said Halo was dying off but that style of shooter is slowly losing out to the Iron sights, quick TTK shooters. More people play CoD now than any other shooter, probably combined. I'd go so far as to commend Halo for sticking to it's guns and not "modernizing".

Halo 4 multiplayer is supposed to borrow elements of CoD's infastructure too though the core gameplay should remain the same.

Either way, bunny hopping in PS2 I can't see as being an issue. Does anyone know for sure if they replaced the stamina system from PS1 with simple sprint mechanics i.e. you sprint for X amount of time before it runs out...?

[Ruffdog]

There is definitely jumping and firing at the same time. At least as seen in the vids. And jetpacking and firing. Higby has stated that this is a valid technique actually.

If that's true then can I lock onto you with my striker? :evil:

[velleity]

I, too, am bad and hope that other players can't move because I am unable to track and aim.

[Hypevosa]

I think bunny hopping is much more effective in games where you're limited in your ability to aim by the analog sticks, so the effect of bunny hopping is much more. With a mouse, when someone jumps, you can much more easily reacquire them than you could with sticks.

[Otleaz]

I absolutely despise arguments for mechanics like bunny hopping and dolphin diving.

"It adds skill to the game so it is okay."
Bullshit... It looks ridiculous, breaks ANY immersion, and often only works because of latency.

Just diminishing accuracy is not enough at all. The important thing is to make it so a player who jumps goes about half the distance than you would with regular movement in the same amount of time. That would stop players from using it while fleeing as well as in combat.

[Top Sgt]

last thing we need is 300 NC bunny hopping around etc

When you jump no firing.. solves the issue

games like APB are ruined because of bunny hopping bafoons

[Baneblade]

I'm all for bunny hopping being allowed... as long as the cof bloom is so large that you blow your own balls off doing it. And the cof can't shrink to normal for two seconds... which is realistic.

[Vydofnir]

Not to mention that punk ass fools do it just to aggrevate you. And there is nothing you can do but sit there and watch the idiots. Put stamina in this game please. It was a wonderfully simplistic solution that had the added benefit of making you think when to conserve your stamina. Wonderful thing in PS1 that should absolutely be migrated to PS2.

I totally agree with you, and I thank you for phrasing this in a way that Mr. T would surely appreciate.

If people want to jump all day, I have no issue with it. Its just as ridiculous as running nonstop across an entire continent with a full kit and not being winded or keeling over dead. Or taking a bullet to the head/chest and not being completely incapacitated.

I agree that the idea realism can be taken too far. For example, I have no desire to play a MMOFPS wherein I have to eat in-game food and have regular virtual bowel movements, but I think there is a relatively high standard of realism that the developers are going for. I don't think the team would go through all the trouble of integrating complex physics if they didn't have a desire to have players utilize similarly realistic tactics. Shooting while jumping shouldn't be out of the questions, but the inclusion of a stamina gauge and accuracy penalties seems more in line with the development teams vision. After all, I have yet to see a trailer for the game that shows soldiers bouncing here and there like gummy bears.

[Goldeh]

iv played alot of FPS's and tested alot.

one gripe i have with alot of them are players who bunny hop to kill you.
is this a problem in ps1 and will be a problem in ps2?

battlefield combated this by stopping you shooting while jumping and you dont see it in bf3 as you dont jump that high cus you actually physically jump over obstacles now so people dont bother.

There was this one game where if you bunny hope it slows your movement speed to pretty much 10% of normal running--not sprinting speed. So yea.

[GreatMazinkaise]

Well this is one thing I don't see changing from the old game... you simply didn't bunny hop because if you did you'd end up slowing to a crawl due to stamina loss.

[BillyBob]

iv played alot of FPS's and tested alot.

one gripe i have with alot of them are players who bunny hop to kill you.
is this a problem in ps1 and will be a problem in ps2?

battlefield combated this by stopping you shooting while jumping and you dont see it in bf3 as you dont jump that high cus you actually physically jump over obstacles now so people dont bother.

As others have already stated: No, this is (thankfully) not an issue in PS1 due to the stamina bar mechanic...and I seriously doubt you will be able to bunny hop in PS2.

Bunny hopping has become more and more rare and exotic to the point where I think it's generally not considered to have any place in a serious modern FPS game, unless it's an intricate part of a very specific playstyle that game is trying to provide.

Regarding disabling being able to shoot while jumping, I'd say it depends.

Personally think the stamina bar mechanic would suffice when it comes to preventing bunny hopping...as long as you don't have any precision to speak of when firing while jumping.

Last thing I want to see is people jumping into rooms or around corners and being able to pull off headshots from mid-air on a regular basis. :p

/BB

[SKYeXile]

yea have it eat at your sprint bar and fuck your COF.

[DarkApothecary]

There should be bunny hopping, but if not there HAS to be shooting while jumping, if you can't kill someone jumping around like a retard shooting at you, then you deserve to die

[Otleaz]

So if your aim is worthless while jumping, what about when you are jump jetting or jumping off of a building? I think it is a bad idea to gimp awesome moments like that to fix a problem that has many different resolutions.

I think aiming should be only slightly affected by jumping, and bunny hopping limited by something else. I understand that making you move slower while jumping might make movement feel clunky, so what about making it so that when you jump, your weapon gets lowered for about half a second. Only regular jumps would be affected like this, and LA could sacrifice their gun for a split second in return for a more powerful launch.

[Toppopia]

So if your aim is worthless while jumping, what about when you are jump jetting or jumping off of a building? I think it is a bad idea to gimp awesome moments like that to fix a problem that has many different resolutions.

I think aiming should be only slightly affected by jumping, and bunny hopping limited by something else. I understand that making you move slower while jumping might make movement feel clunky, so what about making it so that when you jump, your weapon gets lowered for about half a second. Only regular jumps would be affected like this, and LA could sacrifice their gun for a split second in return for a more powerful launch.

Or do BF3/MW3 style and make it after 1-2 jumps you barely lift off the ground until you stop jumping for 5-10 seconds, and i agree we still need LA to beable to jetpack and shoot at same time.

[Xyntech]

Simple solution for avoiding bunny hopping while not gimping LA would be that it's the act of jumping itself that throws off your cone of fire, but after that split second of huge bloom, it starts shrinking down again even if you are still in mid air. So non LA players could jump off a building and shoot someone on the way down (before going splat), and LA could open fire on someone as they reached the top of their jump, to help them take a roof top from entrenched defenders.

Locking weapons while jumping is going to far, but making different weapons bloom to different degrees would be an adequate solution. That and making standard jumps be more shallow and take longer the more times you jumped in a row. Maybe after the first jump, any immediate subsequent jumps would also start slowing your horizontal movement speed, making you a slower sitting duck if you tried to hop around.

Light Assault should take care of most of the twitch gameplay needs of the game, so no need to make the slower classes like HA look silly by having them trying to jump around everywhere. Multiple play styles would be accommodated and the over all feeling the the game could still stay somewhat consistent and semi-serious.

[Stew]

iv played alot of FPS's and tested alot.

one gripe i have with alot of them are players who bunny hop to kill you.
is this a problem in ps1 and will be a problem in ps2?

battlefield combated this by stopping you shooting while jumping and you dont see it in bf3 as you dont jump that high cus you actually physically jump over obstacles now so people dont bother.

Agree BF3 systhem must be use their ! No bunny anoying hoping !

No shooting while jumping and no shooting while performing prone if prone is integrated No matters whats some hater said !!! Bf3 have some good mechanics to prevent many anoying crap from the old games

NO shotting at all while jumping like Bf3 is the only solution and solve the problem all those cone of fire thing will all be exploits !

[lolroflroflcake]

Dude I don't even know why your saying something about this, without even playing you have got to know light assaults are going to be bunny hopping all bloody over the place. As annoying as that is they are in the game and you can't change it without crippling the class, best get used to it.

[velleity]

It only works because of a piece of code that got into Quake 1 by mistake, and then got expanded into a skill by the community.

Mistake is a bit strong. It was an unknown consequence of the physics code design not being able to track differing acceleration and velocity vectors, and the effect being enhanced when fps is capped at certain nodal points.

This was also possible in all the quakes, soldier of fortune1 & 2, RTCW, RTCW/ET off the top of my head, and not just CPMA. CPMA is a re-implementation of the full set of Q1 physics which had superior air control to vanilla Q3.

[velleity]

It only works because of a piece of code that got into Quake 1 by mistake, and then got expanded into a skill by the community.

Mistake is a bit strong. It was an unknown consequence of the physics code design not being able to track differing acceleration and velocity vectors, and the effect being enhanced when fps is capped at certain nodal points.

This was also possible in all the quakes, soldier of fortune1 & 2, RTCW, RTCW/ET off the top of my head, and not just CPMA. CPMA is a re-implementation of the full set of Q1 physics which had superior air control to vanilla Q3.

[QuantumMechanic]

There are "realistic" FPS games that got released after Counter-Strike that allow bunny hopping? I don't mean games like Unreal Tournament. That is a sad commentary on the FPS industry.

[AzK]

OP, assuming you're referring to the simple act of jumping while firing and not actual bunny hopping, which is the case like 90% of the times when people use the term, jumping in ps1 was extremely bad for your aim not to mention it drained precious stamina, don't think ps2 will be any different (aside from the stamina part).

I don't really care since it's not the kind of game where i feel like i need to jump while shooting, but if it's like bf3 i'll definitely be jumping around while moving/escaping (ps1 wasn't like that).

[Barbapapa123]

The Rise And Fall Of Bunnyhopping - YouTube
this is highly relevant

[Vetto]

Gotta jump on bored with a lot of people I do not desire to see "bunny hoping" it PS2, at the very least gunning and hoping can not happen, you wanna bounce around go for it, just don't let them be able to shoot there gun.

As for the video mentioned only reason TF2 had such a "jumping" mechanic is cause they balanced the crap out of it, A scout had one of the lowest healths in the game, and demo and soldier have to suffer damage which is not all that useful in a gunfight outside of fleeing. But when all said and done if a scout is jumping around the heavy who actually aims will rip it apart in matter of moments.

Call me old fashion, but for me the guy who aims should be rewards, not the guy who spazzes around jumping and hip shooting,.

[Otleaz]

The Rise And Fall Of Bunnyhopping - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1HowpVX-hU)
this is highly relevant

He forgot to mention the fact that bunny hopping completely screws over anyone with 20 ping or higher.

[infinite loop]

Call me old fashion, but for me the guy who aims should be rewards, not the guy who spazzes around jumping and hip shooting,.

You can just jump around and hipfire blindly w/o aiming amirite???

:rolleyes:

[Vetto]

You can just jump around and hipfire blindly w/o aiming amirite???

:rolleyes:

For the most of it, yes.. most people who "bunny hop" like to use spray like weapons or shotguns, So my point stay valid the guy taking the time to aim should come out on top.

[infinite loop]

For the most of it, yes.. most people who "bunny hop" like to use spray like weapons or shotguns, So my point stay valid the guy taking the time to aim should come out on top.

Oh I agree. If the one hipfiring has any skill it usually would be him that comes out on top. Perhaps this belongs in the ADS vs Hipfire thread but I still can't get over how some people think there is no skill in aiming from the hip.