Cockpit and Driver View comparison thread.

[EVILPIG]

Reaver
http://www.planetside-universe.com/media/album/mp52rz6sp6/20120426_4f9993d0b73f4.jpg
Mosquito
http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/1449/hudn.png

Scythe
http://d3j5vwomefv46c.cloudfront.net/photos/full/584092493.jpg?key=1024765&Expires=1337627477&Key-Pair-Id=APKAIYVGSUJFNRFZBBTA&Signature=SDZkQlb4W7eRl-q0Lb4TXJ7CWgYUdujEA1ib5vVZeE2tR6Z81HT8BKw0nS91SPJn cyFCha9U~ydZymg6bvdMoBYFBMWuoQ-m1ojsZ4y637jrC565pPiaQhRaWtdI54aLmzUcbAkT~I7OlsfKx asCVdGLXHQdIJgpyOUUzzaGsiU_

Liberator
http://www.planetside-universe.com/media/album/mp52rz6sp6/20120514_4fb17c6fd8cfc.jpg

Galaxy
http://www.planetside-universe.com/media/album/mp52rz6sp6/20120519_4fb8167f2ede6.jpg

Sunderer
http://i.imgur.com/pk5NJ.png

Magrider
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/536272_393397120704905_209775182400434_1174807_471 847602_n.jpg

(will update as it goes)

[Sifer2]

They look really cool. They probably would not have put so much effort into it if it wasn't for them not allowing third person on most vehicles. I'm glad they went this way since I would prefer the full immersion this will deliver. Seems like if you still own a Joystick it will get some use.

[Brusi]

Hell, i'm gonna have to go out and buy a brand new multi-hundred dollar one!

[PeteHMB]

I hope there's a way to turn that off...

[Zulthus]

I hope there's a way to turn that off...

That's a negative, ghost rider. Sorry, this ain't BF3.

[CutterJohn]

Going to miss 3rd person driving so much.. Gah. Thats a serious buzzkill. Theres a reason 95% of games featuring vehicle combat have it.

Oh well. At least the tanks realized cameras work, and theres no need for a clear glass cockpit.



That's a negative, ghost rider. Sorry, this ain't BF3.


I like how you say that like PS1 didn't allow it either.

[Zulthus]

I like how you say that like PS1 didn't allow it either.

Theres a reason 95% of games featuring vehicle combat have it.



It didn't allow it because it wasn't made in the first place. This is a new game and it's taking a lot of mechanics from BF3. Fortunately, toggleable cockpits is not one of them.

What is that reason, if I may ask?

[CutterJohn]

It didn't allow it because it wasn't made in the first place. This is a new game and it's taking a lot of mechanics from BF3. Fortunately, toggleable cockpits is not one of them.

Unfortunately. The fact that you feel it would be a balance issue if they were toggleable proves they are far too restrictive. Betcha you still don't care about the balance issue of someone having 3 monitors. Advantages you can pay for are fine.

[Toppopia]

Going to miss 3rd person driving so much.. Gah. Thats a serious buzzkill. Theres a reason 95% of games featuring vehicle combat have it



I would love to hear your reasoning why 3rd person is good in vehicles.

But seriously, I like being forced 1st person because then now it's easier to sneak up on vehicles without them magically seeing me and killing me, and it means you have to keep a sharp eye around you to make sure you don't get snuck up on or have teammates watching your back.

[Zulthus]

Unfortunately. The fact that you feel it would be a balance issue if they were toggleable proves they are far too restrictive. Betcha you still don't care about the balance issue of someone having 3 monitors. Advantages you can pay for are fine.

It doesn't mean they're too restrictive if they are toggleable... but if they were, there just is simply no point in making cockpits in the first place since people take any sort of advantage they can get. No one would use them.

Admittedly I don't care about the three monitor thing anymore... that was kind of stupid.

[cellinaire]

Hmm, I don't mind if it's forced or toggleable. But I also had to wonder,

does the 'toggleable' option give a specific faction some noticeable advantage? Why? It's not even like giving VS weaponry 10% damage boost or something like it.

I mean, toggleable or forced, it affects all players. Why would it create such a balance issue?


(** and no, I'm not talking about the '1st person with cockpit / 1st person without cockpit' here. It's actually about the '1st person with cockpit / 3rd person')

[ArmedZealot]

I mean, toggleable or forced, it affects all players. Why would it create such a balance issue?

It's not so much a balance issue as it is a practicality issue. You obviously have an advantage when you don't use the cockpit, or use a third person view of the vehicle. So naturally, most people are going to play the game that way. Why have cockpits at all if you make them able to be turned off?

[Zulthus]

Hmm, I don't mind if it's forced or toggleable. But I also had to wonder,

does the 'toggleable' option give a specific faction some noticeable advantage? Why? It's not even like giving VS weaponry 10% damage boost or something like it.

I mean, toggleable or forced, it affects all players. Why would it create such a balance issue?

It lets you see more than you realistically could. I wouldn't care about it if there wasn't a cockpit option. But they're wasting resources on cockpits if they don't force them. If you could see more without a cockpit, would you use it? No one would. Keeping the cockpit forced creates a perfectly even playing field.


Just noticed your edit there, you can't aim in third person so it's fine. You can use it for navigating but that's all it's useful for.


And Cutter, you can still fly in third person, but good like trying to kill anything in that mode.

[cellinaire]

It lets you see more than you realistically could. I wouldn't care about it if there wasn't a cockpit option. But they're wasting resources on cockpits if they don't force them. If you could see more without a cockpit, would you use it? No one would. Keeping the cockpit forced creates a perfectly even playing field.


Just noticed your edit there, you can't aim in third person so it's fine. You can use it for navigating but that's all it's useful for.


And Cutter, you can still fly in third person, but good like trying to kill anything in that mode.

Hehe got that. And sorry guys for the 'edit' part of my post. It was several minutes late.

(one thing more. I know they confirmed for now that ground vehicles are not allowed to have 3rd person view. What would it mean if some tanks get grounded when they were marching through thick forest area or very rocky terrain?)

[CutterJohn]

What is that reason, if I may ask?

I would love to hear your reasoning why 3rd person is good in vehicles.

It avoids the issues of tunnel vision and screen shake.

Try driving your car with no mirrors, side, or rear windows, and 1/4 of the windshield painted over. Thats what driving in a game is like. Can you imagine trying to navigate a crowded courtyard with no third person? 0_o

And they always bolt the camera to the frame, and you get to experience every single bounce and jiggle, even though your neck and eyes would compensate for this irl, maintaining far smoother vision. 3rd person tends to be far smoother, and they just bounce the vehicle in your view, not the camera itself.


Infantry don't have these issues. Their 'ride' is always perfectly smooth, and while they still have tunnel vision, they can flip around instantly to have a look in other directions.

It doesn't mean they're too restrictive if they are toggleable... but if they were, there just is simply no point in making cockpits in the first place since people take any sort of advantage they can get. No one would use them.


No. People who enjoyed them would use them. Would you disable weapon models if you could? I wouldn't. They aren't restrictive enough to worry about.

[Zulthus]

It avoids the issues of tunnel vision and screen shake.

Try driving your car with no mirrors, side, or rear windows, and 1/4 of the windshield painted over. Thats what driving in a game is like.

And they always bolt the camera to the frame, and you get to experience every single bounce and jiggle, even though your neck and eyes would compensate for this irl, maintaining far smoother vision.

They already said they're making the movement inside smooth. When you bank your aircraft your head moves with it after a delay, etc.



No. People who enjoyed them would use them. Would you disable weapon models if you could? I wouldn't. They aren't restrictive enough to worry about.

Neither is the cockpit, for what it's used for. Infantry are easily expendable and can't do barely any damage in the grand scheme of things. The aircraft have heavy armor, rockets, missiles, chainguns, etc. They need to be restricted further in order to be balanced. That is where the cockpit comes in. You can do much, much more damage than infantry but you'll actually have to look around and move your aircraft to find targets. So much work, I know. :rolleyes:

[CutterJohn]

Neither is the cockpit, for what it's used for. Infantry are easily expendable and can't do barely any damage in the grand scheme of things. The aircraft have heavy armor, rockets, missiles, chainguns, etc. They need to be restricted further in order to be balanced. That is where the cockpit comes in. You can do much, much more damage than infantry but you'll actually have to look around and move your aircraft to find targets. So much work, I know. :rolleyes:

Oh please. The cockpits aren't there for balance, they are there for eye candy. Any balance considerations are extremely minor. I want them gone not because I think I'll have a huge advantage, but because they really, really annoy me. Seriously annoy me. How in the world do they forget how to mold polycarbonate shells in the future? Every sci fi game does it. Need cockpits? Lets design them like they did in 1938! All I can think when I see them is "Nobody could design something so poorly". Cockpits improve immersion? Thats a laugh. Ones as poorly engineered as these destroy it.

But if balance is that important, then just make a 'Virtual Cockpit' Cert. There, now its a slight advantage, that you have to pay for, like the rest of the slight advantages you can get through certs. People who don't want it can spend those certs elsewhere. You'll laugh at me for wasting cert points, and I'll laugh at you for flying around in a box designed in 1938. :)

[Zulthus]

Oh please. The cockpits aren't there for balance, they are there for eye candy. Any balance considerations are extremely minor. I want them gone not because I think I'll have a huge advantage, but because they annoy me.

Wrong. If somebody can see more because they aren't using a cockpit, that is not a minor balance problem. There is clearly a difference in playing field as the person not using it can see much more. Since they annoy you so much I guess you'll just have to get used to it or stick with land vehicles.

If its that important, then just make a 'Virtual Cockpit' Cert. There, now its a slight advantage, that you have to pay for, like the rest of the slight advantages you can get through certs. People who don't want it can spend those certs elsewhere. You'll laugh at me for wasting cert points, and I'll laugh at you for flying around in a box designed in 1938. :)

Nah, it's already forced. No point in trying to change that any more. More people clearly want it forced than not. :)

[Stew]

Going to miss 3rd person driving so much.. Gah. Thats a serious buzzkill. Theres a reason 95% of games featuring vehicle combat have it.

Oh well. At least the tanks realized cameras work, and theres no need for a clear glass cockpit.






I like how you say that like PS1 didn't allow it either.


Sorry but you misunderstood the whole thing !

youll be able to (( fly )) in 3rd person but youll not be able to engage combat properly and accuratly so youll have to switch in cockpit view for engagement only !

Just to (( fly )) youll be free like a bird to fly in 3rd person view !

[Stew]

It doesn't mean they're too restrictive if they are toggleable... but if they were, there just is simply no point in making cockpits in the first place since people take any sort of advantage they can get. No one would use them.

Admittedly I don't care about the three monitor thing anymore... that was kind of stupid.

Your rigth people have to be on the same base !

Anyones who can get any advantage will do it and those who like the cockpit view but get own by those who dont will desactivate them as well because the (( others )) use the disable option as a exploits !

So if its not force on theyre is no point in making cockpit view since by the end everyones will disable it those who like it and those who dont Just to be at an equal stand on a battle fairness stand point !


COCKPIT FORCE ON no matters whats

NO CERT of any sorte to exploits the whole cockpit thing

thats it thats all those who want to fly a camera must stay on planetside 1

[Raymac]

What's all the bickering for? We've already seen 3rd person view for vehicles plenty of times. Clearly it's going to be in the game, unless I missed something?

Also, the cockpits look killer. Can't wait to see the Scythe.

[Mechzz]

What's all the bickering for? We've already seen 3rd person view for vehicles plenty of times. Clearly it's going to be in the game, unless I missed something?

Also, the cockpits look killer. Can't wait to see the Scythe.

Not all vehicles will have 3rd person - only air vehicles as confirmed here:

http://www.planetside-universe.com/showthread.php?t=40417&highlight=3rd+person+vehicle

[CutterJohn]

Wrong. If somebody can see more because they aren't using a cockpit, that is not a minor balance problem. There is clearly a difference in playing field as the person not using it can see much more. Since they annoy you so much I guess you'll just have to get used to it or stick with land vehicles.

So you're also against modifiable field of views, widescreen support, three monitors, head tracking, and joysticks?

All things that give a distinct advantage. Far more than a toggle cockpit. Should those things be unsupported? Or are advantages only bad if they are free? In that case, I'll pay $10 for the flying camera view. Now theres a disadvantage to it, and a reason to use the cockpit. :D

[EVILPIG]

It avoids the issues of tunnel vision and screen shake.

Try driving your car with no mirrors, side, or rear windows, and 1/4 of the windshield painted over. Thats what driving in a game is like. Can you imagine trying to navigate a crowded courtyard with no third person? 0_o


You don't have radar in a car, your situational awareness should be greater with it.

[Raymac]

Not all vehicles will have 3rd person - only air vehicles as confirmed here:

http://www.planetside-universe.com/showthread.php?t=40417&highlight=3rd+person+vehicle

Thanks for the heads up. I like to think I keep up to date on everything, but obviously stuff can sneak through.

My 2 cents, just deal with it. I used 1st person exclusively in vehicles in PS1. You quickly get used to the size of your vehicle.

I could see how the cockpit view might get annoying, but most people wanted to get away from the "flying camera" style that PS1 had. I've always turned off the cockpit when I can going back to my X-Wing days, and I would justify it much as CJ has done, but it still always felt a little like cheating to me.

Let's see how it works out in testing. If it becomes a clusterfuck where ground vehicles are constantly banging into each other, I'm sure they will change it.

[Kipper]

The problem with 3rd person on ground vehicles is that it allows you to see round corners. It happens on WoT. Part of the game or cheating? You decide..

If anyone can think of a way to have 3rd person on ground vehicles without enabling this 'feature' - I'm sure interest would be shown....!

[EVILPIG]

The problem with 3rd person on ground vehicles is that it allows you to see round corners. It happens on WoT. Part of the game or cheating? You decide..

If anyone can think of a way to have 3rd person on ground vehicles without enabling this 'feature' - I'm sure interest would be shown....!

It also allows them to over terrain.

[SuperMorto]

Oh please. The cockpits aren't there for balance, they are there for eye candy. Any balance considerations are extremely minor. I want them gone not because I think I'll have a huge advantage, but because they really, really annoy me. Seriously annoy me. How in the world do they forget how to mold polycarbonate shells in the future? Every sci fi game does it. Need cockpits? Lets design them like they did in 1938! All I can think when I see them is "Nobody could design something so poorly". Cockpits improve immersion? Thats a laugh. Ones as poorly engineered as these destroy it.

But if balance is that important, then just make a 'Virtual Cockpit' Cert. There, now its a slight advantage, that you have to pay for, like the rest of the slight advantages you can get through certs. People who don't want it can spend those certs elsewhere. You'll laugh at me for wasting cert points, and I'll laugh at you for flying around in a box designed in 1938. :)

So you're also against modifiable field of views, widescreen support, three monitors, head tracking, and joysticks?

All things that give a distinct advantage. Far more than a toggle cockpit. Should those things be unsupported? Or are advantages only bad if they are free? In that case, I'll pay $10 for the flying camera view. Now theres a disadvantage to it, and a reason to use the cockpit. :D

People shouldn't have to pay a penalty for liking immersion. And why should you get a bonus for disliking it. Your just like the folks ho turned the grass of in PS1. You don't deserve a good looking game like this.

[Kipper]

People shouldn't have to pay a penalty for liking immersion. And why should you get a bonus for disliking it. Your just like the folks ho turned the grass of in PS1. You don't deserve a good looking game like this.

I agree... I don't want to be punished by a game for wanting to play it with as high graphics settings as I can get away with.

Presumably, those people wanting to turn off cockpits wouldn't have a HUD either then, so no health bar, no weapon selection / ammo info, no targeting reticles, no speedometer, no altimeter, or anything else like that....

....Or should you magically get all that stuff, but without the instrument panel?

[RSphil]

loving these views. cant wait to see all of them. makes you feel like you are in the machine
LOVE IT

[Gandhi]

I would hope that with these great looking cockpits we'll have support for TrackIR too, because I might just have to be a career pilot then.

[CutterJohn]

The problem with 3rd person on ground vehicles is that it allows you to see round corners. It happens on WoT. Part of the game or cheating? You decide..

If anyone can think of a way to have 3rd person on ground vehicles without enabling this 'feature' - I'm sure interest would be shown....!

WoTs 3rd person camera is nothing like PS1s. PS1s locked behind the vehicle. It couldn't be moved, panned, zoomed, nothing. WoTs is quite ridiculous, tbh, for a game that goes the extra mile to be realistic.


I spent hundreds of hours in a tank. I used the vehicle camera to see over hills maybe a handful of times. I used 3rd person as infantry in a backdoor hallway literally every single time. The way PS1 had it set up it simply wasn't useful at all for intel on vehicles. It was just useful for driving. Had a bit wider FoV, and could see if you were going to clear obstacles easily.

There is a reason why its in literally every vehicle game. Someone, name one game with ground vehicles that does not have third person. I cannot think of one right now.



I would hope that with these great looking cockpits we'll have support for TrackIR too, because I might just have to be a career pilot then.


Track IR shouldn't be supported, because it gives people an advantage over those without it.

[Knocky]

Track IR shouldn't be supported, because it gives people an advantage over those without it.


Flight mechanics are going to be more realistic.

I do not have a joystick.

Should I ask that joystick support should be removed "because it gives people an advantage over those without it."?

[Toppopia]

Flight mechanics are going to be more realistic.

I do not have a joystick.

Should I ask that joystick support should be removed "because it gives people an advantage over those without it."?

If i could play Combat Flight Simulator: Battle for Europe. Without a joystick and it had really good mouse control, then i would have, but for some reason they insisted on making the / key and " keys and what not the keyboard versions to fly a plane. So a joystick will only give a slight advantage, practice enough with a mouse and you will be as good as any joystick user.

[Figment]

The irony is the unit that needs third person least (since it can fly upside down and look around to get situational awareness from high above) is aircraft.


Completely disagree with Higby's assesment and I challenge him to play World of Tanks from a first person perspective without once switching to third person.

Just look up any World of Tanks video on youtube, wait for snipermode and imagine driving that way the coming 8 years.

[The Kush]

People shouldn't have to pay a penalty for liking immersion. And why should you get a bonus for disliking it. Your just like the folks ho turned the grass of in PS1. You don't deserve a good looking game like this.

Lol this

[Xyntech]

The irony is the unit that needs third person least (since it can fly upside down and look around to get situational awareness from high above) is aircraft.

Situational awareness of the battlefield yes, but this is exactly why it's not that big a deal for aircraft to have it. Hovering stationary is asking for trouble, so there generally isn't much risk of players in aircraft using it for an unfair ambush. I rarely used third person to ambush people with ground vehicles in Planetside, but I never used it to ambush people with aircraft. It was possible, but not very practical or useful.

The situational awareness that third person really gives aircraft is seeing what's immediately around them for high speed maneuvers. Tanks drive relatively slow, and if they hit an obstacle, it gives them a little scratch. Aircraft are flying at relatively high speeds, and have lots of good reasons to be trying to weave their way through tight obstacles (like avoiding pursuit or lock-ons), and if they hit an obstacle, BOOM!

Now, saying all that, even though I'm a pilot, I'd actually prefer that either all vehicles had 3rd person or that none of them did. I don't think 3rd person provides enough of an advantage to ground vehicles to be a huge issue, and I don't think it's that essential to aircraft that it's that needed.

But I do think it's slightly more valuable and slightly less exploitable in aircraft, so I don't have a huge problem with their current plan.

Completely disagree with Higby's assesment and I challenge him to play World of Tanks from a first person perspective without once switching to third person.

Just look up any World of Tanks video on youtube, wait for snipermode and imagine driving that way the coming 8 years.

That's not exactly a fair comparison. That's like suggesting that infantry would play with a zoomed in scope or in forced iron sights all the time.

We have seen the field of view on Vanguards and Magriders and it is sufficient for navigating. I don't disagree that it will be more awkward at times than if there were 3rd person, but it won't be too bad, especially if they have a freelook button to allow you to check your sides, and hopefully a reverse cam that you can check for backing up.

[CutterJohn]

Would be ok with the idea of an equipment module that enabled the no cockpit/3rd person camera? Now its not free, you have to pay for it and its downside is not fitting something else there. The technology is plausible, or at least already existent in the game, so it fits RP and 'immersion'.


I'd much prefer them to be stock, but heck, I'll take anything I can get at this point.

[Toppopia]

Would be ok with the idea of an equipment module that enabled the no cockpit/3rd person camera? Now its not free, you have to pay for it and its downside is not fitting something else there.

Or instead it shows camera angles on the sides and back of the tank as little computer screens so you can stay in first person and still see around you. Solution made better and realistic, and still forces 1st person. I think my job here is done. :cool:

[Sifer2]

There is a reason why its in literally every vehicle game. Someone, name one game with ground vehicles that does not have third person. I cannot think of one right now.




Red Orchestra 2.

What I like about that game is that if you want you can peek out the hatch of the tank to get a better view of where your going. But then someone can snipe your head off :P

It probably would not be terribly hard for them to add that feature to Planetside 2.

[Toppopia]

Red Orchestra 2.

What I like about that game is that if you want you can peek out the hatch of the tank to get a better view of where your going. But then someone can snipe your head off :P

It probably would not be terribly hard for them to add that feature to Planetside 2.

Wow, that sounds amazing. Also have a MG mounted on top of the tank so that they can use it while being sniped at. Kind of hated how BF3 the tank had an invincible gunner protecting it from all directions so you couldn't sneak up and C4 it.

[Sifer2]

Wow, that sounds amazing. Also have a MG mounted on top of the tank so that they can use it while being sniped at. Kind of hated how BF3 the tank had an invincible gunner protecting it from all directions so you couldn't sneak up and C4 it.


The MG gunner being exposed would be a tad unrealistic though. Even WW2 era tanks have the MG gunner inside. Though his arc of fire is not 360 degrees at least. It could be a hard point though. Like in Red Orchestra 2 if you shoot at the MG viewport usually the shot will penetrate an kill him if your using an anti-tank rifle. I don't expect Planetside 2 to try to hard to be a sim though. But letting drivers peek out the hatch for easier/riskier navigation would be great.

[CutterJohn]

Red Orchestra 2.

What I like about that game is that if you want you can peek out the hatch of the tank to get a better view of where your going. But then someone can snipe your head off :P

It probably would not be terribly hard for them to add that feature to Planetside 2.

Red Orchestra is a game that goes for extreme realism. Games that restrict this are few and far between. There is no reason for PS2 to do so. It can be easily explained with simple technology they should be easily capable of at the time if immersion matters to you. Hell, they can add a drone graphic that floats above and behind the vehicle while in use. And the obvious fact that it will already be in the game for some vehicles. If done like PS1, it has only a very minor and very highly situational use for peeking around corners or over hills.

People hated 3rd person for infantry. I never heard a soul utter anything about it for vehicles. You'd think there would have been *some* complaints if it was so unpopular or imbalanced. This is a pointless change to fix an imbalance that never existed, and is something a great many people like using, even if they aren't vocal about it.

[Kipper]

One solution would be a periscope/camera mounted on a telescopic pole that could be deployed, to give you a view from higher up.

This could be of benefit to all vehicles for being able to see over some obstacles and get overall situation awareness whilst still being locked 'inside' your vehicle.

[Sifer2]

I really think your overstating how difficult it is to drive in first person. Especially something as slow as a tank. It really is not that hard. Especially since i'm sure they are going to provide a reverse camera when your backing up. And the tank turret will rotate your view so you can see stuff on your sides. If its like battlefield then driving the Sunderer will probably let you free look with the mouse out the windows as well. I had no problem driving jeeps first person in Battlefield hauling ass dodging trees left an right.

Third person camera for vehicles is just a huge crutch that a lot of people are used to. But it really is not necessary. Just a little practice an you will navigate just as well in first person. Only now you will be easier to sneak up on obviously, and can't see over hills without exposing yourself. Plus it gives them a reason to create really cool interior cockpit views an such while i'm loving so far.

[sylphaen]

Driving a thresher without 3rd person view was somewhat challenging though. Especially for backwards or strafing movements.

[Xyntech]

I'd be more than happy to petition the devs during beta to let us test (as well as attempt to exploit) 3rd person view on land vehicles.

At the same time, I'd like everyone to give locked first person vehicle driving a try. Once you aren't able to rely on 3rd person, you would be surprised how well your brain can adapt, especially if there is a freelook feature (there really needs to be a freelook feature for it to work well).

If the field of view from inside a tank is terrible, that will be a problem, but it doesn't look that way in the GDC footage.

Honestly, I'd go the opposite way with aircraft as well. I'd like for the devs to turn the 3rd person option off for aircraft for a part of the beta, so we can test to see if it really is essential for aircraft.

Really, my first choice is that land and air vehicles have the same system. Either both have 3rd person, or neither do. If I had to pick one of the two to exclusively have 3rd person, it would be aircraft, and not because I'm a pilot, but my first choice is still that they both be the same, one way or the other.

[EVILPIG]

Updated.

[RSphil]

if people want realism then force cockpit mode. tanks and aircraft of today have fair to crap visibility. and for those saying that future aircraft would have poly cockpits are wrong :P
aircraft of the future wouldnt have pilots and poly cockpits would not be strong enough for high caliber/high velocity rounds.

i always play cockpit no matter what i play. after years of playing combat flight sims you get used to looking around and using what you have. this also makes team work a priority,in aces high you rely on the guys you fly with to watch your six and help if needed. with up to 200 aircraft in the sky team work is a must. every one should be looking for one another aswell as them selfs. i also think it should be forced on ground vehicles aswell. not fair if you are sneaking up on a tank to blow it up ect and the tank driver is on 3rd person mode and just turns round and blows you into next week or just runs over you.

[EVILPIG]

Added Scythe. Who bets the VS now fully support forced cockpits? LOL

[SniperSteve]

You should update the mossie one from the night combat footage as it is different than the one you show on the OP.

[EVILPIG]

You should update the mossie one from the night combat footage as it is different than the one you show on the OP.

Put it up and I will edit. I am at work. Thanks!

[Kurtz]

looks like the VS have a slight advantage with a little more open view in the bottom corners.

[Mechzz]

I've tried Firefox and IE but can't see the Scythe image in either.
Any suggestions on what I can try to fix it?

[Evil Redrum]

I've tried Firefox and IE but can't see the Scythe image in either.
Any suggestions on what I can try to fix it?

http://twitpic.com/9nr4nh/full

It isn't showing up in that post on chrome either.

[Elude]

No. People who enjoyed them would use them. Would you disable weapon models if you could? I wouldn't. They aren't restrictive enough to worry about.

Yes I would disable them if I could. I'll take any advantage I can get even if it is in the slightest amount.

Keep weapons and cockpits on please, otherwise I will turn them off if they are toggleable.

[Xyntech]

Added Scythe. Who bets the VS now fully support forced cockpits? LOL

I guess it's too much to hope that I'll be able to see NC and TR shish kebabs from my Scythe cockpit view. :D

[Timealude]

I guess it's too much to hope that I'll be able to see NC and TR shish kebabs from my Scythe cockpit view. :D

I dont mind as long as you fly support for me in my galaxy :P

[Blackwolf]

Hmm, I don't mind if it's forced or toggleable. But I also had to wonder,

does the 'toggleable' option give a specific faction some noticeable advantage? Why? It's not even like giving VS weaponry 10% damage boost or something like it.

I mean, toggleable or forced, it affects all players. Why would it create such a balance issue?


(** and no, I'm not talking about the '1st person with cockpit / 1st person without cockpit' here. It's actually about the '1st person with cockpit / 3rd person')

Balance issue comes from potential use and counter use. Player A using it against player B holds an unfair advantage because player B can't use it to counter player A in any given situation.

You couldn't say that if player A had an assault rifle weapon and engaged player B at AR range. Either player B has one, or he doesn't. And if he has one, he either uses it or he doesn't. Likewise with crouching behind cover, both sides can use it to mitigate the damage they take from the other. 3rd person is strictly 1 sided in most scenarios.

[Blackwolf]

So you're also against modifiable field of views, widescreen support, three monitors, head tracking, and joysticks?

All things that give a distinct advantage. Far more than a toggle cockpit. Should those things be unsupported? Or are advantages only bad if they are free? In that case, I'll pay $10 for the flying camera view. Now theres a disadvantage to it, and a reason to use the cockpit. :D

Side views are probably going to be restricted by cockpit models as much as front views are. If someone has 3 monitors, their only real advantage would be that they don't have to "look around" manually. And I fail to see how Joysticks would provide any more of an advantage then just using a mouse, other then adding yet more immersion.

WoTs 3rd person camera is nothing like PS1s. PS1s locked behind the vehicle. It couldn't be moved, panned, zoomed, nothing. WoTs is quite ridiculous, tbh, for a game that goes the extra mile to be realistic.


I spent hundreds of hours in a tank. I used the vehicle camera to see over hills maybe a handful of times. I used 3rd person as infantry in a backdoor hallway literally every single time. The way PS1 had it set up it simply wasn't useful at all for intel on vehicles. It was just useful for driving. Had a bit wider FoV, and could see if you were going to clear obstacles easily.

There is a reason why its in literally every vehicle game. Someone, name one game with ground vehicles that does not have third person. I cannot think of one right now.


I used 3rd person view to keep an eye on infantry around me while driving a tank. Keeping myself from getting hacked, and driving around with DL on patrolling for cloakers. In aircraft I used it often for ambushing, also came in handy in dogfights, keeping an eye on aircraft while attempting to out maneuver them.

Just because you had a very limited imagination and set of experiences in the game, doesn't mean everyone did. 3rd POV helped me out a LOT in vehicles, more then when hoofing it in fact. Am I crying because I can't use it? No. I really wish they would take it off of aircraft in fact.

Flight mechanics are going to be more realistic.

I do not have a joystick.

Should I ask that joystick support should be removed "because it gives people an advantage over those without it."?

Again, how would a joystick give someone a better advantage then people with a mouse? If you THINK it gives a better advantage, buy one. You can get a cheap one for 20 bucks as proof of concept. This is an excuse, a weak one at that.

Would be ok with the idea of an equipment module that enabled the no cockpit/3rd person camera? Now its not free, you have to pay for it and its downside is not fitting something else there. The technology is plausible, or at least already existent in the game, so it fits RP and 'immersion'.


I'd much prefer them to be stock, but heck, I'll take anything I can get at this point.

No. Darklight required a implant slot but that didn't stop 90% of the player base from equipping it. Stamina in City of Heros was so over used that the DEVs just said "eff it, we'll give it to everyone for free". Everyone had to purchase 2 other powers before getting stamina but everyone did it because yes it was that vital.

You aren't offering a viable compromise with the "make it something you can purchase" bit. Instead, you are whining more and practically begging. Were I you, I'd be freaking red in the face from embarrassment.

I'm not trying to be an ass here. I'm just kinda tired of seeing the same argument and pitched idea over the same old crap over an over. Also tired of the various excuses "I'm not upset that my view is obstructed! I just think it's ugly/designed in the '30s". Your crying because you can't have your way.

[Anderz]

I'm disappointed by the lack of a third-person view.

So long as the third-person camera does not have a targeting reticule, it can be great tool for situational awareness without completely making the first-person view redundant.

If you ask me, hot-swapping between the two views to gain a tactical advantage during dogfights actually adds more depth to the role of pilot and will depend on skill.

But also, people are forgetting that it makes for some fantastic gameplay videos! I mean, when those BF3 beta videos first hit YouTube with the 3rd person jet view, whose jaw didn't drop? It looked incredible! If SOE want to boost their audience, enabling cinematic views for the sake of machinima filmmakers and YouTube commentators is a great way to do it.

[SKYeXile]

You don't have radar in a car, your situational awareness should be greater with it.

get a better car.