Thrustpads [Jump Pads]

[Senyu]

Alright alright we all know this is going to come up so lets try to keep it isolated in one thread.


Jump Pads.....Discuss




Personally I am turned off at easy infantry movement similiar to Tribes in some aspects for a game like this. However it may be reduced to bases only and we still need to get a feel for it. Opinion:Skeptical but I'll give it a shot since they have been making good design decisions so far.

[SniperSteve]

I think it will work as they are going for a faster-paced combat feel, but that's what beta is for.

[EVILoHOMER]

Have you played the game? No. Lets wait and see when beta starts to how they impact gameplay. I've never played a game with jump pads and thought they ruin it, more like they're hella fun...

When are people going to wait to play the game before complaining about the gameplay?

[Stardouser]

I think it's a problem as it makes the game TOO fast paced, and too much like Tribes as you say. Planetside is a game with hundreds of players in a battle, large maps(ie, distance) is supposed to provide some separation, otherwise what do we need 8km X 8km maps for? It also means that it doesn't matter where defenders deploy.

Yes, they are making good design decisions in general, but this might make the game too fast.

[JPalmer]

It allows better designs for the bases and allows players to defend a side easier if it gets attacked.

I like.

[MyMeatStick]

Very nice design feature if you ask me.

I guarantee some people wont like it though.

[Bags]

I don't see an issue right now.

[EVILPIG]

Have you played the game? No. Lets wait and see when beta starts to how they impact gameplay. I've never played a game with jump pads and thought they ruin it, more like they're hella fun...

When are people going to wait to play the game before complaining about the gameplay?

It's a valid question. You don't have to have played the game to question their impact, the video shows much. The speed at which infantry can move around the base certainly affects things. Then you have the ability to basically fly between pads using weaponry? How about when dropping bombs are introduced?

Of course Beta will answer many questions, but the jump pads really stood out.

[LightningDriver]

They look like zip lines in the caves, just without the actual lines. Engineers like me will place mines on the landing pad. I can also see this as being a sniper's paradise.

[JPalmer]

I think it's a problem as it makes the game TOO fast paced, and too much like Tribes as you say. Planetside is a game with hundreds of players in a battle, large maps(ie, distance) is supposed to provide some separation, otherwise what do we need 8km X 8km maps? It also means that it doesn't matter where defenders deploy.

Yes, they are making good design decisions in general, but this might make the game too fast.


You are making it sound like everyone will have their own personal cannon.

It is not like they are going to make super jump pads at each base that will allow ground vehicles to fly to another base.

They are only found around bases to allow the owning factions players to easily move around it. There was nothing worst than having to walk around the entire base to find the entrance.

[RodenyC]

For me it just look like it doesn't fits.Like the BF3 killcam.Just doesn't fit for me.

[Graywolves]

I think the purpose is clear and it feels off to us veterans but I think I could get used to it given time.

Here are my thoughts on it.

Pros:
Jump pads provide quick access to areas of a massive base in a large scale, increasing the pacing of the battle and getting people to the fight quicker.

Multiple people can jump and attempt to meneuver themselves in a way to avoid collision or knocking each other around.

Fighting chance if enemies are waiting for them on the other end.


cons:
In its current form you fly out in the open between points. Making you vulnerable enroute and showing off your new position.

It also takes up some space in its current form.


I would rather use one of the followings.

-Same jumppad concept but pushed towards the edge of the wall and send players horizontally to the next point. Problem with this is crowding and people knocking each other off as well as easy to camp. But you get more space on the actual roof tops and less people accidentally sending their avatars somewhere distant than where they want to be and possibly killed.

or

-Link the structures underneath in a hallway. Simply let people run through or zipline/cannon across. This way they are not vulnerable or cluttering the sky and there's now a tiny bit more indoor combat.

edit: Not cluttering/taking up space is another thing for the jump pads.




Personally I currently feel like jump pads are a little too....arcadey? It just feels weird going from spawning and using transport and fighting to propelling yourself using a jumppad. Maybe if they just made it look different.

[Bags]

How does it feel off to veterans? Did you never go in the caves?

[Graywolves]

How does it feel off to veterans? Did you never go in the caves?

Where in the caves did you propel yourself in an arc and free fall?

[Senyu]

What about a light transport thing? Like there is a person size walkthrough door way at same spot of jump pads. When you walk through it, there is a few second delay as your body is pulled like going into warp speed or being sucked into a black hole, and you flash to the other end. Visually enemies would see it as one of these two ways depending on which is more popular. A quick flash of light the size of a person zip from one point to the other showing the direction it went. Or simply just the doorway flashes and the recieving end flashes afterward showing usage.

[Stardouser]

I'm not a PS1 vet and it feels off to me.

[KrackerJacked]

(disclaimer: I didn't see the video nor the mention of a jump pad till I read this thread. I'm fully prepared to look like an ass if I'm totally off base here)

I don't understand what this is or how it's going to work. From reading the thread, I'm assuming it's some sort of structure that infantry can use to get over obstacles. Or is it some sort of fast travel for infantry (god I hope not)? If it's the former, I have to ask 'why'. Why then give light infantry jet packs if one could use heavy and have a similar ability? Why would the architects of a defensive structure go out and make a way for enemies to bypass this structure (if that's even how they're set up)?

I'd say if you have jump pads in, make them a engineer ability like the turret which can be destroyed.

[Senyu]

(disclaimer: I didn't see the video nor the mention of a jump pad till I read this thread. I'm fully prepared to look like an ass if I'm totally off base here)

I don't understand what this is or how it's going to work. From reading the thread, I'm assuming it's some sort of structure that infantry can use to get over obstacles. Or is it some sort of fast travel for infantry (god I hope not)? If it's the former, I have to ask 'why'. Why then give light infantry jet packs if one could use heavy and have a similar ability? Why would the architects of a defensive structure go out and make a way for enemies to bypass this structure (if that's even how they're set up)?

I'd say if you have jump pads in, make them a engineer ability like the turret which can be destroyed.

Okay in the video there is 4 towers around the base, At the top are jump pards to adjacent towers. You go on one and launch yourself in an arc to the next tower making much more quicker to get to another side of a large base and help defend. It's distance is greater than the jetpack travel distance

[Stardouser]

I assume totalbiscuit was in a light assault the whole time? Bad enough that these will exist and light assault can use them, but if heavy assault and MAX can use them it's worse.

[Duddy]

As far as I understand it it simply provides infantry defenders (or attackers if they manage to take the point) some mobility between the dis-contiguous, though local, buildings that make up the base as a whole.

Given that bases are no longer a maze of underground tunnels, infantry need a way to get between parts of the base relatively quickly and safely without the use of vehicles (which would be ridiculous at those distances).

Without this method, I image infantry being slaughtered by vehicles rolling around within the base.

[xSlideShow]

I like it, reminds me of ziplines.

[WaryWizard]

The only issue I see is that you will be quite vulnerable during jump padding. AI maxes and snipers will kill a lot of people using the jump pads.

[ringring]

Where in the caves did you propel yourself in an arc and free fall?

Yes, many times ofc.
(edit meant to quote Bags - my bad)
and jump pads do feel too arcady .... zip lines and teleporters in the caves felt alien.

A bit like Stardouser. I hope the game doesn't become too fast and too much of a twitch-fest. And I like the concept of travel time, it makes the gamewolrd appear large and gives it 'heft'.

But, although mildly sceptical I'll wait for beta.

[KrackerJacked]

Ok, I get it now. If it's a defensive thing I guess I'm good with it. When I first read the thread I was imagining attackers flying into a base from all over. If it can be worked out where it's merely a way to redistribute the defense, it can be captured/destroyed, and doesn't seem to gimmicky or glitchy then it should be fine imo.

[Senyu]

Oh oh! Hackers should be able to disable jump-pads which would help cripple defences

[Stardouser]

Yes, many times ofc.

and jump pads do feel too arcady .... zip lines and teleporters in the caves felt alien.

A bit like Stardouser. I hope the game doesn't become too fast and too much of a twitch-fest. And I like the concept of travel time, it makes the gamewolrd appear large and gives it 'heft'.

But, although mildly sceptical I'll wait for beta.

Zip lines would be OK. I mean zip lines like we have in real life now, you fire a bolt, it sticks in the ground, and you slide fairly slowly down it.

But I definitely like the idea of travel time meaning something, even within a base.

Ok, I get it now. If it's a defensive thing I guess I'm good with it. When I first read the thread I was imagining attackers flying into a base from all over. If it can be worked out where it's merely a way to redistribute the defense, it can be captured/destroyed, and doesn't seem to gimmicky or glitchy then it should be fine imo.

Hopefully these things exist at bases only. When we're out fighting a battle in the field, at a bridge perhaps, the only infantry flying should be light assault.

[Raymac]

Do you guys see how MASSIVE these bases are? I think the jump pads are a great addition, because otherwise it looks like you would spend 10 minutes just to run from 1 side of the base to the other.

Also, let's not forget, this is Planetside. There will be dozens if not hundreds of people fighting along side you, so you don't need to cover every direction yourself. Just like in PS1, you'll end up picking a side and fighting off the enemy there.

These bases are huge. I don't want Planetside 2 to turn into a jogging simulator.

[Soothsayer]

I have no problem from an immersion nor from a PS1 gameplay continuity with this concept and am of the opinion that if something deepens gameplay or provides more options that are not damaging from a balance perspective that it should be considered.

I like the idea of jump pads if the physics work with the realities of the engine.

It could be difficult to implement based on fall damage or the arc you would take, would need to be well designed.

Other than that I think it's good and would speed up and increase mobility within base fights.

[Stardouser]

I have no problem from an immersion nor from a PS1 gameplay continuity with this concept and am of the opinion that if something deepens gameplay or provides more options that are not damaging from a balance perspective that it should be considered.

I like the idea of jump pads if the physics work with the realities of the engine.

It could be difficult to implement based on fall damage or the arc you would take, would need to be well designed.

Other than that I think it's good and would speed up and increase mobility within base fights.

I don't think it does deepen gameplay, merely speeds it up.


Do you guys see how MASSIVE these bases are? I think the jump pads are a great addition, because otherwise it looks like you would spend 10 minutes just to run from 1 side of the base to the other.

Also, let's not forget, this is Planetside. There will be dozens if not hundreds of people fighting along side you, so you don't need to cover every direction yourself. Just like in PS1, you'll end up picking a side and fighting off the enemy there.

These bases are huge. I don't want Planetside 2 to turn into a jogging simulator.


I don't think that will be the case, and I do think that giving into fears of "jogging sims" is going to lead to meatgrinding.

[Quovatis]

I'm a bit turned off by it. It seems there is no fall damage in PS2? I'd rather see a cave-style teleporter than being flung in the air.

I don't want it to turn into tribes-style flying bodies everywhere. That's not Planetside.

[Raymac]

I'm a bit turned off by it. It seems there is no fall damage in PS2? I'd rather see a cave-style teleporter than being flung in the air.

I don't want it to turn into tribes-style flying bodies everywhere. That's not Planetside.

But the caves looked ridiculous with that whole confusing spider web mess of ziplines. I don't want to ugly up these beautiful bases with lines criss-crossing all over the place. Also, having them be jump pads instead of teleporters makes you vulnerable so there is a risk/reward. Jump pads are a far more elegant solution to the issue of traveling across these huge bases.

[ringring]

+1 to the no Tribes thing with folks flying everywhere....

[Quovatis]

But the caves looked ridiculous with that whole confusing spider web mess of ziplines. I don't want to ugly up these beautiful bases with lines criss-crossing all over the place. Also, having them be jump pads instead of teleporters makes you vulnerable so there is a risk/reward. Jump pads are a far more elegant solution to the issue of traveling across these huge bases.

I said teleporters, not ziplines. You may not be vulnerable, but it doesn't look as silly as a soldier flying through the air, landing, and not breaking every bone in his body upon landing. Having fall damage kept a bit of skill in PS1. Hope that's not removed.

[Bags]

There is fall damage, it just hurts your shield first. Most of the time he didnt' fall far enough to completely break the shield.

[Raymac]

I said teleporters, not ziplines. You may not be vulnerable, but it doesn't look as silly as a soldier flying through the air, landing, and not breaking every bone in his body upon landing. Having fall damage kept a bit of skill in PS1. Hope that's not removed.

Breaking every bone upon landing? Like when you hot dropped out of a Galaxy? Oh wait. There were inertial dampners, right? ;)

[The Janitor]

Oh come on, how much fun is it going to be to try and ram people in the air as they bounce back and forth along the pads? It'll be hilarious!

[Bags]

Breaking every bone upon landing?

Wiggle Wiggle - YouTube

[MrBloodworth]

There is fall damage, it just hurts your shield first. Most of the time he didnt' fall far enough to completely break the shield.

It should ignore shields and go right to health.

[SixShooter]

I'm not really digging the whole jump pad thing but I do understand why they're being included. These bases are gigantic and infantry needs to be able to mobilize quickly to defend them. While I think the game could do without them I would rather have this as opposed to zip lines or teleporters. I do admit that they are going to be great targets for my Scythe.

[Shogun]

in ps1 you could spend a lot of time running around on basewalls. and those bases were small compared to ps2!

it looked like the jump pads are only like a circle transport method just like the teleporters in the sanc. useful to get to the other side of the base more quickly, nothing else. that´s ok as long as there are not too many of them everywhere.

would be fun to have a small area with a lot of those things to emulate the zipline chaos we had in the ps1 caves ;)

[RadarX]

I'm a bit turned off by it. It seems there is no fall damage in PS2? I'd rather see a cave-style teleporter than being flung in the air.

I don't want it to turn into tribes-style flying bodies everywhere. That's not Planetside.

Keep in mind what you are seeing is a Light Assault with a jetpack to slow the decent.

[Hamma]

I am quite turned off by them to be honest. I don't have a problem with the elevator/lift implementation but being able to just launch between towers? I don't like that at all. If you want to move from one area of the base to the next you should have to actually run there. I hated the caves and I really dislike the thought of this.

PlanetSide should be more tactical.

It just adds an un-needed element to the game for the sake of making it faster.

[Stardouser]

I am quite turned off by them to be honest. I don't have a problem with the elevator/lift implementation but being able to just launch between towers? I don't like that at all. If you want to move from one area of the base to the next you should have to actually run there. I hated the caves and I really dislike the thought of this.

PlanetSide should be more tactical.

It just adds an un-needed element to the game for the sake of making it faster.

This. We're getting sprint, aren't we? And sprint should be unlimited I believe. But launch pads?

[Shogun]

radar, so does that mean a non jetpacked player will not be catapulted from one pad to the next? and it will cost falling damage for everyone but light assault?

[Vancha]

I like it. I think people are judging it without knowing how long or arduous it could be to run between the locations where these jump pads exist. It certainly doesn't seem out of place in the game.

I also prefer these to teleporters.

[CutterJohn]

Functionally I think they are a fine idea and will work well, and are rather necessary with the larger base sizes. Stylistically, I feel they're a bit over the top. A teleporter might be preferable.

[FIREk]

I like the vertical "energy elevator" devices, they make sense. But the jump pads look really out of place, unlike in games l like Quake 3, or Unreal Tournamenr 2004.

Not sure if they don't also give the defenders too much of an advantage, since they allow for extremely rapid deployment. Could also be quite exploitable...

In my opinion, there should be fancy ways of moving vertically, both up and down, but horizontal movement should be made on foot, to facilitate more combat opportunities as well.

So I'm all for energy conduits letting me go up and down, but not the jump pads. ;)

[Neurotoxin]

Jump Pads make sense to me. Since PS2 bases aren't reduced to three objective points being the spawn room, generator, and control console, it makes sense to free up the battlefield from major choke points, rather than using the choke points as the only major conflict zones for battles within the base.

Enhanced mobility means players can approach from different angles and areas, which is important because bases are so spread out and decentralized now. Just getting across those major distances, horizontally or vertically, becomes a lot less painstaking for players.

It kinda feels like splitting the difference between ziplines and one-way teleporters from the caverns in PS1. The player is visible and shootable when they cross the distance in one direction, and can't necessarily go back the way they came unless there's another jump pad there.

[laelgon]

With the size of the bases, there was going to have to be a way for defenders to move quickly. The jump pads are a far better alternative to teleporters. With jump pads there's a delay before they arrive, and they're still vulnerable to being shot. Teleporters would put them there faster and without any danger during that time.

[ArmedZealot]

Functionally I think they are a fine idea and will work well. Stylistically, I feel they're a bit over the top.

This is how I feel.

Imagine how these will look when 50+ players are flying around the walls of the bases and clipping through each other. I know PS1 puts forward a futuristic and alien aesthetic, but this has to be thought out a little more.

They should be replaced with some sort of moving platform. This might slow things down a bit game play wise but it would look better.

[Stardouser]

With the size of the bases, there was going to have to be a way for defenders to move quickly. The jump pads are a far better alternative to teleporters. With jump pads there's a delay before they arrive, and they're still vulnerable to being shot. Teleporters would put them there faster and without any danger during that time.

The size of the bases is not relevant here. The number of players is what takes care of that. If you've got 100 people defending a base, that's enough to cover everywhere that needs covered. The true answer is having multiple spawn areas so that people can spawn where they need to defend.

[TheRagingGerbil]

I like em! Going to sit back and pick 'em off as they fly through the air.


PULL!!!

[The Janitor]

I like em! Going to sit back and pick 'em off as they fly through the air.


PULL!!!

Hah, exactly. Just gotta get creative with it and it'll turn out to be much more fun than originally planned. :D

[proxykalevra]

with the size of the bases in ps2 this is a needed feature, it allows for quick movement from one area to the next with extreme risk of being picked off/giving away your location seems like a fair trade off to me... and yes it feels a little like ziplines in cc...

what i want to see, however, is a reaver/mossy/scythe come screaming through to get away from aa and plow into someone jumping across LOL that would be a splatter kill i would re-watch.

[Ale]

Jump pads are a preferable alternate to the switchback stairs of PS1 towers and base centerstacks, or the ones in Sharqi's T.V. station for that matter. The argument that it takes away from the tactical aspect of holding a base is a valid one, however, if you can just hop from one spire to another.

[basti]

Its clearly obvious what happend here:

Playtest with a small number, people had to run around like crazy to find each other, jump pats went in to counter that.

But clearly, nobody happend to think whats going on in a big fight: 100 people using the jump pads, getting torn to bits by aircraft flying in their way.




Seriously, get rid of the pads. Base assaults will be massive, and it should, no, it HAVE to take time to get from A to B. Otherwise you remove a large chunk of the ability to tactically attack a base (from several directions), and end up with a random fragfest.

And if you dont belive me, wait till beta. We show ya. ;) (also, HURRY UP :D )

[Raymac]

I am quite turned off by them to be honest. I don't have a problem with the elevator/lift implementation but being able to just launch between towers? I don't like that at all. If you want to move from one area of the base to the next you should have to actually run there. I hated the caves and I really dislike the thought of this.

PlanetSide should be more tactical.

It just adds an un-needed element to the game for the sake of making it faster.

When you get to test it next week (you lucky @#$%) try checking out to see how long it takes to run from 1 side of the base to the other. I have a feeling that just as in PS1, foot zerging, or running long distances, is going to be a terrible tactic, so having limited points of jump pads will be helpful in navigating the bases efficiently and not spending your entire day jogging back and forth.

[Hamma]

Oh no doubt it will take long - but that's what hundreds of people are for. :p

Seems like the larger amount of spawn points negates the need for these.

[Red Ketchup]

[Warning: Stupid idea]

Infiltrators should be able to hack jump pads. Once hacked, the jump pad would launch players of the opposing factions in a random direction (including straight up to make them take fall damage).

[Raymac]

Oh no doubt it will take long - but that's what hundreds of people are for. :p

Seems like the larger amount of spawn points negates the need for these.

But what if you personally want to go from 1 side to the other? Despawn and respawn? Suicide? That sounds way worse to me than jump pads. I like there being a risk/reward for quick movement, even if it is difficult to shoot someone mid-flight.

Also, it's essentially the same thing as the cave ziplines but without all those ugly lines cluttering up the screen.

[Senyu]

I'll post this idea again

What about a light transport thing? Like there is a person size walkthrough door way at same spot of jump pads. When you walk through it, there is a few second delay as your body is pulled like going into warp speed or being sucked into a black hole, and you flash to the other end. Visually enemies would see it as one of these two ways depending on which is more popular. A quick flash of light the size of a person zip from one point to the other showing the direction it went. Or simply just the doorway flashes and the recieving end flashes afterward showing usage.

Also they should be abled to be hacked and thus disabled from some controlling point in the base. Plus, this is only one base. We do not know if others have it or the same design

[MrBloodworth]

Oh no doubt it will take long - but that's what hundreds of people are for. :p

Seems like the larger amount of spawn points negates the need for these.

Yeah, but they have been removing reliance on others in this sequel. So asking players to coordinate to have all the walls cover is not as optimal as "quake walking" to where you are needed.

Zerg > Strategy.

Just sayin'.

[Soothsayer]

Stardouser, when I say "Deepen gameplay" I am referring to the notion of opening up additional lanes to attack and defend from. I didn't mean to say that it would add any sort of new playstyles or anything in that sense.

More generally, I was envisioning a more or less vertical jump pad, like the angled vertical launchers you would see in Quake 3, but not so much the horizontal ones that launch you a distance across the map.

It's probable that there is a better implementation than a jump pad. But I think the important thing is to have some method for transporting around a base quickly.

At it's lowest point, getting around an uncontested base is a matter of convenience where being forced to sprint around it is a unnecessary hassle.

At it's highest, it is a tactical consideration for defending and attacking a base and could be integrated into capture mechanics as an element that is tied into base defense/capture giving the bonus of rapid transport to the faction that controls it.

[Vash02]

I think the lifts are a bit too techno, they fit well with the VS but in an NC or TR base? nah. They should just have a normal platform lift in my opinion.
Also yeah, flinging troops around a base does not fit in with Planetside at all. Either a teleporter or a sort of sped up travelator on the walls?

[Vancha]

I think the lifts are a bit too techno, they fit well with the VS but in an NC or TR base? nah. They should just have a normal platform lift in my opinion.
Also yeah, flinging troops around a base does not fit in with Planetside at all. Either a teleporter or a sort of sped up travelator on the walls?

Well it *was* a VS base. We don't know that the lifts/pads are the same for TR/NC. ;)

[Quovatis]

Either a teleporter or something similar to the Portal 2 transport beam (but much faster) would be preferable. I understand the need to get around the base quickly, but the jump pads just don't fit in with the Planetside universe (not to be confused with this site, lol). There are better ways.

[Coreldan]

I'm not sure if I'm a fan of any such mean of quick transportation, but it's hard to say without experience the scale of the bases myself first, it might just be necessary. I'd sorta like the immersion of no stupid quick travel. Get a friend to give you lift :D

[Raymac]

I don't buy the argument that the jump pads don't "fit with planetside" when we had the ziplines in PS1.
Ziplines - ugly lines = jump pads

[Stardouser]

I don't buy the argument that the jump pads don't "fit with planetside" when we had the ziplines in PS1.
Ziplines - ugly lines = jump pads

Jump pads fit with Tribes, Tribes gameplay needs to stay in Tribes.

And besides, ziplines were only in caves.

If we are going to have ziplines, it should be an actual zipline gun that you carry with you, fire the bolt into something up to say 40 meters away, and then slide down it. That I could accept.

[Vancha]

I just hope they aren't removed before beta. They'd sure as hell be a lot more fun than a teleport/transport beam.

Edit: Stardouser, watch the video, the gameplay's clearly not like tribes.

[Stardouser]

I just hope they aren't removed before beta. They'd sure as hell be a lot more fun than a teleport/transport beam.

Edit: Stardouser, watch the video, the gameplay's clearly not like tribes.

I watched every second of the video. The gameplay overall isn't but the jump pads are.

[Vash02]

I don't buy the argument that the jump pads don't "fit with planetside" when we had the ziplines in PS1.
Ziplines - ugly lines = jump pads

The caves had a lot of horrible mistakes in them. But at least they were meant to be alien tech, not human tech.

[Raymac]

Jump pads fit with Tribes, Tribes gameplay needs to stay in Tribes.

And besides, ziplines were only in caves.

If we are going to have ziplines, it should be an actual zipline gun that you carry with you, fire the bolt into something up to say 40 meters away, and then slide down it. That I could accept.

1. You may want to look at the connection between Tribes and Planetside before you say stuff like that.
2. I would think that somebody who came here from BF would be the last person to write off a mechanic for the sole reason that "it's in another game".

[Mechzz]

It's the 25th century, or summat! Humankind will have jump pads by then, if only in homage to the memory of Sonic, that well known NC-sympathiser.

Looks kinda fun, keen to see how it pans out it beta when there's a queue to jump and 50 snipers on the ridge :eek::eek::eek:

[Stardouser]

1. You may want to look at the connection between Tribes and Planetside before you say stuff like that.
2. I would think that somebody who came here from BF would be the last person to write off a mechanic for the sole reason that "it's in another game".

You're right, I'm not writing it off just because it's in another game, but because I've played Tribes, and flying infantry is not a fun mechanic. That is why I am against it, not "because it's in Tribes", but because I have played it in Tribes and don't like it. And I'm not the only one saying this. The fact that there may be a relationship between PS and Tribes doesn't really move me to accept it.

[Raymac]

You're right, I'm not writing it off just because it's in another game, but because I've played Tribes, and flying infantry is not a fun mechanic. That is why I am against it, not "because it's in Tribes", but because I have played it in Tribes and don't like it. And I'm not the only one saying this. The fact that there may be a relationship between PS and Tribes doesn't really move me to accept it.

I can respect that.

It does look like the bases will need some form of fast travel, so that leaves us with warp pads or jump pads. The problem with warp pads are you have zero idea where you are going to end up unless you have a flawless knowledge of the base layout. With a jump pad, you can see your trajectory before you ever step into it.

The self grapple / zip line is a cool idea, but might be quite a bit more complicated to implement. For example, what is the range? Can it attach anywhere? With jump pads, you can't just do it anywhere, there are only very specific spots. Nice clean and simple.

[Vancha]

Nice clean and simple.

And fun.

[Stardouser]

I can respect that.

It does look like the bases will need some form of fast travel, so that leaves us with warp pads or jump pads. The problem with warp pads are you have zero idea where you are going to end up unless you have a flawless knowledge of the base layout. With a jump pad, you can see your trajectory before you ever step into it.

The self grapple / zip line is a cool idea, but might be quite a bit more complicated to implement. For example, what is the range? Can it attach anywhere? With jump pads, you can't just do it anywhere, there are only very specific spots. Nice clean and simple.

I think 40 meters is a good range for zipline. Very dangerous to do it under fire, since it won't even be half as fast as those jump pads, and it gives you the freedom to do it in any direction.

I don't know anything about the technical issues of implementation but frankly I don't see why it shouldn't attach to just about anything(instead of spending time trying to decide which surfaces it should attach to and which it shouldn't. Basically, it shouldn't attach to water, I guess). Since they aren't going to fling you at blazing speed, they are quite deadly to use under fire anywhere in the entire game, but since you carry it with you, you can choose to use it only where it's safe,or safer, to do so.

But I don't think bases really need that much fast travel. Aren't we getting unlimited sprint for one thing?

[LoopbackZero]

Hopefully someone has already mentioned it, but the jump pads in the video only go from wall post to wall post. It's not like you're jumping throughout the base here and there. It lets you get from one cardinal side to the other, quickly. It saves the time we all know of going from one turret to the other, giving repairs.

Remember, they're solving many annoyances that were in PS1. Note that the walkway on the walls is covered from aerial attacks. This should make some much more intense wall defense battles.

Please don't try to blow this out of any more proportion than you guys already have.

[Raymac]

But I don't think bases really need that much fast travel. Aren't we getting unlimited sprint for one thing?

You might be underestimating the scale. Even with sprinting, it looks like it will take quite some time to get from 1 side to the other. I mean it took a couple minutes to run from 1 side of a base to the other in PS1, and that was even without people shooting at you and forcing you to take cover. And the PS2 bases are looking much larger.

EDIT: Also +1 to what LoopbackZero said

[CuddlyChud]

I don't think the jump pads are just for fast travel. They are also a way to open up a tower or whatever to more vertical movement. This way you can assault/defend from the top and the bottom. It opens up other avenues of attack. Ziplines did the same thing in the caves. They let you attack from different angles.

[TheRagingGerbil]

Hopefully someone has already mentioned it, but the jump pads in the video only go from wall post to wall post. It's not like you're jumping throughout the base here and there. It lets you get from one cardinal side to the other, quickly. It saves the time we all know of going from one turret to the other, giving repairs.

Remember, they're solving many annoyances that were in PS1. Note that the walkway on the walls is covered from aerial attacks. This should make some much more intense wall defense battles.

Please don't try to blow this out of any more proportion than you guys already have.

I like this guy!

[Stardouser]

Here's another thing I just thought of. PS1 you captured bases by hacking. But PS2, a base is going to have, say, 6 control points to capture. Are we going to have a situation where, after you've captured half a base, the enemy is using jump pads to jump into the parts of the base the other team holds? That doesn't sound good for gameplay.

[Raymac]

Here's another thing I just thought of. PS1 you captured bases by hacking. But PS2, a base is going to have, say, 6 control points to capture. Are we going to have a situation where, after you've captured half a base, the enemy is using jump pads to jump into the parts of the base the other team holds? That doesn't sound good for gameplay.

It wouldn't be too different than a hot drop getting ambushed. The term "turkey shoot" comes to mind.

[Stardouser]

Maybe it was not the best design choice to go with such large bases that you have to jump around most of it to get anywhere? Bigger is not always better and adding a mechanic to move people around faster will just make them seem smaller anyway. Quite a departure from BF/CoD and I am not sure it's in the right direction. Doubt many of those guys will be warm to this design element.

I tried to ask opinions on Mordor, but only one or two people answered before the thread got moved to the off topic section where threads die.

My guess, is that BF players who hate future theme, well, they don't count, and most of the rest will probably tolerate it. I'm not saying they will embrace it, just tolerate.

I do like large bases, personally I think the use of multiple capture points is the answer. When one half of the base belongs to the enemy, there is a front line. Here's a thought: Maybe once the enemy gains a foothold into the base, jump pads will cease to work? That way they only work for allowing defenders to get into position for the initial defense.

[LoopbackZero]

Please read my post.

[MrBloodworth]

Jump pads fit with Tribes, Tribes gameplay needs to stay in Tribes.
.

PS is part of the tribes line.

[Stardouser]

PS is part of the tribes line.

Different game. Whether the connection is ownership of the IP, or whether it's because devs who worked on Tribes worked on PS or vice versa, it doesn't matter, flying infantry belong in Tribes and not Planetside. Light assault with jump packs is OK, but no more.

[Purple]

I am quite turned off by them to be honest. I don't have a problem with the elevator/lift implementation but being able to just launch between towers? I don't like that at all. If you want to move from one area of the base to the next you should have to actually run there. I hated the caves and I really dislike the thought of this.

PlanetSide should be more tactical.

It just adds an un-needed element to the game for the sake of making it faster.

i fully agree

[Vancha]

flying infantry belong in Tribes and not Planetside. Light assault with jump packs is OK, but no more.
Whoa there, who are you to say this? I mean, again, it's obviously not like Tribes, but even if it were...That's up to the developers.

[Stardouser]

Whoa there, who are you to say this? I mean, again, it's obviously not like Tribes, but even if it were...That's up to the developers.

It's easy to say that if you agree with the devs or don't care. All statements are my own opinion, and I'm simply trying to join the pack of everyone else who feels the same way,which, at least out of all of us, is a significant chunk of us.

[Vancha]

I kind of wish this thread had a poll. Even if all of us hated the idea of jump pads it wouldn't mean anything, but it'd still be interesting.

[Duddy]

It's easy to say that if you agree with the devs or don't care. All statements are my own opinion, and I'm simply trying to join the pack of everyone else who feels the same way,which, at least out of all of us, is a significant chunk of us.

Please don't discount that there also appears to be a "significant" amount of people that seem to like it or otherwise aren't bothered.

The people having replied to this (and the original video) thread does not a realistic representation make.

[Duddy]

There are also fanbois here that believe Higby is the second coming of Christ and would like anything SOE came up with. ANYTHING!

Indeed, which is why we need to try and look at these things objectively! It's fine to have personal biases, it's just pertinent to point them out when making judgement e.g. Star saying he doesn't like them because of associated experiences with Tribes.

It's just people saying nay, or just as importantly yay, without considering things that is dangerous aka fanbois :P

[Stardouser]

Indeed, which is why we need to try and look at these things objectively! It's fine to have personal biases, it's just pertinent to point them out when making judgement e.g. Star saying he doesn't like them because of associated experiences with Tribes.

It's just people saying nay, or just as importantly yay, without considering things that is dangerous aka fanbois :P
Just to be clear, though, I like Tribes overall, it's the experience of infantry flying around everywhere that brings it down for me. You might be thinking that there's some other aspect of Tribes that I don't like, that's causing me to unfairly dislike jump pads simply because I don't like whatever the other thing is.

I'm willing to wait until Beta to crusade against these things, so long as they are not so feature-locked that they will be completely unwilling to listen. But I think it's important to respond to it now, as well.

[MrBloodworth]

Different game. Whether the connection is ownership of the IP, or whether it's because devs who worked on Tribes worked on PS or vice versa, it doesn't matter, flying infantry belong in Tribes and not Planetside. Light assault with jump packs is OK, but no more.

Now you are just silly. VS max anyone?

[Duddy]

Just to be clear, though, I like Tribes overall, it's the experience of infantry flying around everywhere that brings it down for me. You might be thinking that there's some other aspect of Tribes that I don't like, that's causing me to unfairly dislike jump pads simply because I don't like whatever the other thing is.

I'm willing to wait until Beta to crusade against these things, so long as they are not so feature-locked that they will be completely unwilling to listen. But I think it's important to respond to it now, as well.

Didn't mean to make it look like it was another aspect, I think you made yourself pretty clear.

I do think this is one of those very hard things to judge without actually being able to contextualize it properly, certainly worth discussing potential issues though for the reason you describe.

[Stardouser]

Now you are just silly. VS max anyone?

My understanding is that that is not happening in PS2, this time? And even if it does, how far can they fly? Not very, I am guessing?

Didn't mean to make it look like it was another aspect, I think you made yourself pretty clear.

I do think this is one of those very hard things to judge without actually being able to contextualize it properly, certainly worth discussing potential issues though for the reason you describe.

Actually, this is one of the reasons why I would prefer teleporter pads if they MUST have this. That way, if the enemy captures part of the base, your teleport pad will no longer transport you to enemy held areas.

[Mechzz]

Indeed, which is why we need to try and look at these things objectively!

*clears throat nervously*
So:
The base we saw was as big as, and probably bigger than most PS1 bases.

It was wide open in the sense that there is no gate. TB just wandered in and capped a control point. I know it was low-pop, but even so there was no door or wall to stop him.

The walls/buildings are higher than in PS1. Something better than stairs was needed or it would be "Planetside2: The Great Wheeze" as we spend ages getting to the top.

So, the design question the Devs faced:
How to let players get back to the action asap in a way that isn't out of place in the far future?

Seems to me it won't be hard to take out the pads (at least in the bigger scheme of things) so this seems to be a good tester for beta. Hard to tell in low-pop scenarios how much fun the pads will be, so let's give it a go and we can have a poll after we've fought and died for them.

[Raymac]

Indeed, which is why we need to try and look at these things objectively! It's fine to have personal biases, it's just pertinent to point them out when making judgement e.g. Star saying he doesn't like them because of associated experiences with Tribes.

It's just people saying nay, or just as importantly yay, without considering things that is dangerous aka fanbois :P

I admittedly fall into the fanboy catagory because I tend to like most of the things I've heard so far. (I don't know if anyone likes everything) But i think the jump pads are a great idea because the scale of the bases neccessitate assistance in mobility and I'd much rather have a jump launcher where I can see where I am going rather than a warp pad where I cross my fingers and hope I end up where I intended to go.

I think it's a matter of personal preference if this form of transportation is "fun" or not, but I like how they are giving though to getting around these sprawling bases. Anyone remember that 1 time you ran from one side of the sactuary to the other?

[TheGodCanine]

My opinions on Jump Pads differs on many situations.

While I can understand that Infantry needs some way to quickly transport themselves on these huge bases without relying on a vehicle,I just don't like the idea of flying Infantry.

I quite like the Jump Pads from the spawn room point of view.

And I hope it differs depending on faction to something quite different but same concept.

[EVILPIG]

I put up a poll. show your opinion through a statistic.

http://www.planetside-universe.com/showthread.php?t=41284

[LoopbackZero]

This forum's opinion doesn't matter when they don't even understand what they're looking at. I'm done trying to talk sense into anybody.

[Raymac]

I put up a poll. show your opinion through a statistic.

http://www.planetside-universe.com/showthread.php?t=41284

Prediction: It will be the same result as every other poll on this site. Every single new mechanic or variation of an old mechanic is met with a massive dose of skepticism from this community.

[Toppopia]

I did notice the certain lack of walls or gates, so how do we stop enemies from getting in? Maybe even forcefields that in certain areas only infantry can access so they have to attack the forcefield generator first to get access to other places, that would be cool and stop defenders being overwhelmed instantly.

[LoopbackZero]

I did notice the certain lack of walls or gates, so how do we stop enemies from getting in? Maybe even forcefields that in certain areas only infantry can access so they have to attack the forcefield generator first to get access to other places, that would be cool and stop defenders being overwhelmed instantly.

He was on a wall for almost 50% of the video. This is what you guys aren't understanding.

[Saieno]

I am quite turned off by them to be honest. I don't have a problem with the elevator/lift implementation but being able to just launch between towers? I don't like that at all. If you want to move from one area of the base to the next you should have to actually run there. I hated the caves and I really dislike the thought of this.

PlanetSide should be more tactical.

It just adds an un-needed element to the game for the sake of making it faster.

This is my thought for the most part. Instead of jump pads why not just have multiple spawn points within a base? That way you can easily deconstruct and appear in the other location of the base or a more convenient spawn point. Jump Pads just add a mechanic that completely removes any sort of team play by facilitating lone wolf mechanics. Jump Pads are very similar to the cavern play we had in Core Combat, which was zip lines and teleport pads, and seem to be just as disorienting.

Personally I'm all for deconstructing and respawning to a closer spawn point, I am not however up for Jump Pads especially when there could be 600 people all clamoring to get on the side of the base for "L33T SKILZ KILZZZ!"

[Vash02]

But i think the jump pads are a great idea because the scale of the bases neccessitate assistance in mobility and I'd much rather have a jump launcher where I can see where I am going rather than a warp pad where I cross my fingers and hope I end up where I intended to go.


Your concern is easily solved by the addition of an arrow (like the arrow on the launcher, but I prefer paint).

[Raymac]

This is my thought for the most part. Instead of jump pads why not just have multiple spawn points within a base?

So you'd rather have a spawn point at each bastion along the wall? Doesn't that sound a bit excessive? Plus instead of a simple jump you know have to do, despawn, click where you want to go, respawn.

[Stardouser]

He was on a wall for almost 50% of the video. This is what you guys aren't understanding.

You seem to be suggesting that just because the jump pads only take you around the perimeter wall, that it's OK. But I think when we get better details, we'll see that you can indeed use the jump pads to get closer to capture points and important areas.

[Duddy]

Instead of jump pads why not just have multiple spawn points within a base? That way you can easily deconstruct and appear in the other location of the base or a more convenient spawn point. Jump Pads just add a mechanic that completely removes any sort of team play by facilitating lone wolf mechanics. Jump Pads are very similar to the cavern play we had in Core Combat, which was zip lines and teleport pads, and seem to be just as disorienting as Jump Pads.

Asking why is a good question. I actually believe it is due to ease of understanding.

The problem with a teleport is that, at least initially, you probably have no idea where you're going to end up. For new players this could cause considerable confusion.

For example think back to the zip lines in the caves, sure you could often see where the lines went but knowing exactly where you would end up or how to plot a path was testing for those unfamiliar.

That's one of the reasons the caves were unpopular, which is a shame because if you understood how things worked there were great infantry fights down there.

So with that in mind think back to what we saw in the video. The "elevator" clearly has a "stream" heading upwards so you know it'll take you up. Likewise the jump pads visibly notify the direction in which you will go.

But as for that emboldened/italicized part, care to elaborate?

[Raymac]

Your concern is easily solved by the addition of an arrow (like the arrow on the launcher, but I prefer paint).

Good point. Arrows would be helpful. They can still be confusing, but it would help alot.

But you are still left with the issue of risk-less travel. While it will likely be hard to shoot a jumper mid flight, it won't be impossible. In fact, I'm sure there will be plenty of snipers out there who will get rather good at it.

[Mechzz]

In fact, I'm sure there will be plenty of snipers out there who will get rather good at it.

Better believe it. This mechanic is a straight lift from Halo:Reach and using the jump pads there was risky to say the least :)

[RodenyC]

Ahh I can see it now.

TR goes to use jump pad.
Vanu Sniper: Pull!
Tr doesn't make it to the other side.

[Bags]

I did notice the certain lack of walls or gates, so how do we stop enemies from getting in? Maybe even forcefields that in certain areas only infantry can access so they have to attack the forcefield generator first to get access to other places, that would be cool and stop defenders being overwhelmed instantly.

I tweeted higby about this months ago, he said "Variety is cool too!" in response to my complaint about lack of full walls.

[SgtMAD]

I tweeted higby about this months ago, he said "Variety is cool too!" in response to my complaint about lack of full walls.

thats a ridiculous reply, the idea that bases would only have portions of the CY protected with walls defeats the purpose of having any walls at all.

I vote for teleporters,the jump pads are far too easily abused LOL and actually make the tops of the towers easier to secure in an attack.

a lot of half baked ideas showing up in these vids we are seeing.

[Dreamcast]

I don't see the big deal...It feels kind of haloish but Im not sure how it actually works in real combat.


One thing that will be cool however is if the jump pads could be destroyed....

[Raymac]

I vote for teleporters,the jump pads are far too easily abused LOL and actually make the tops of the towers easier to secure in an attack.


I don't follow. How would teleporters from the top of 1 tower to the top of another make it harder than jump pads in an attack? With a jump pad, at least you are exposed to enemy fire, right? Also, how are jump pads in PS2 easily abused?

[Saintlycow]

looks really cool. anyhow, if you have a problem with flying people, bring an aa max, and shoot them out of the sky

[Skepsiis]

I guess they are a little bit arcadey but they dont bother me too much to be honest.

I think an implementation of something more like this would fit in better with the world:

R&C Skill Points: Nundac Asteroid Ring - YouTube

[SgtMAD]

I don't follow. How would teleporters from the top of 1 tower to the top of another make it harder than jump pads in an attack? With a jump pad, at least you are exposed to enemy fire, right? Also, how are jump pads in PS2 easily abused?

you cannot figure out how to farm those pads?, I thought of 3/4 just watching the clip once,hell I just thought of two more typing this.it will just as bad as the pad camping in the caves only with the ability to use anything from a group of snipers to tanks and libs.

once you start gal dropping full squads on to the roofs of the towers with the ability to jump around moving troops while assaulting the base and suppressing the CY from the "high" ground you will dread the ability to move around so easily when the better outfits start figuring this all out,add in the spawn on SL function and its a friggin party.

go ahead and leave them in,the crying in beta will get them removed

[WorldOfForms]

Guys, there's a critical component here that people are missing (unless I didn't notice someone else say it).

There was no bridge over the gate into the courtyard.

This vastly changes the mobility of defenders. In PS1 I spent a lot of time on base walls and I would walk the perimeter in defense. Defenders NEED an unbroken line around the base perimeter to defend properly.

I'm not saying jump pads are the solution, but I fully understand why something like them is in the game. No bridges over gates.

[That one noob]

Tbh I would rather have jumppads than teleporters because seem like they would get congested too quickly, as well as being very easy to camp compared to a jump pad.

[BorisBlade]

only partial walls? wtf? no point in having any walls at all if you are goin to have them only in some areas, literally zero point. If a few bases had some walls missing then maybe you could call it variety, but most all bases need full walls or its just boring.

Way too many simplistic, boring, and cheap ideas coming into PS with the excuse of "speeding it up" which is presented as always good when thats not even remotely true. Jump pads need to go, got enough flying people and cheap, lame ideas. No teleporters either, too much magical movement as is. Fine with pads in the center to replace stairs, but make em go back down and run to the next tower then go up. Used to be tactical with postioning and area held, now with so many magical teleports, jump pads, squad spawning, vehicle spawning, etc, you dont have to be very good, just near instantly get to other areas, often without even having to really fight or have any tactical skill to do so.

Can we have some tactical play in here somewhere or we just gonna start teleporting everyone next to each other with magical ammo boxes and instant respawn next to the enemy too?

Graphically the game looks insanely awesome, just need to get this awful BF crap, and "speed everything up as much as you can no matter what" moronic idea out, then we can see some real PS style stuff come back.

[SgtMAD]

if they put teleport pads one level below the roof then had you use the elevator to go up would be a better solution.it would give you cover to use the pad and make taking control of the pad area easier.

but actually I would find fighting the length of the wall to take each tower an actual challenge that would be epic

[Toppopia]

I do hope most bases have a proper wall around them with only 1 main way in and maybe 2 or more small 1 man entrance ways so only a small squad can use it. Because that base looked very open and if i was the military designing the base, i would always have walls around it. Maybe that base is the only one that looks like that hopefully.

[Xyntech]

As posted in the other poll thread, I think something like this would help improve the gameplay a little and the style a lot.


http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/2351/jumppadrevampidea.png

[Sledgecrushr]

As posted in the other poll thread, I think something like this would help improve the gameplay a little and the style a lot.


http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/2351/jumppadrevampidea.png

Needs to say budweiser on the side of that can.

[SgtMAD]

Too many towers for that. Those large bases with all those towers would take sooo long. I get what you are saying though, you just have to look at the size of those bases and understand the fight is going to need to be faster there. Like I said earlier, make the bases larger, fight has to speed up and essentially be back at where you would be with a smaller base.

all I saw was 4 towers,I didn't make a point of counting them,I figure I will get that when I go over the clip like the Zapruder film tomorrow morning

I spent almost a decade pushing ppl to move faster,a group of ppl with a plan could take those walls after a decent fight,it won't be that hard if you hit 'em hard and keep pushing. the real secret is watching your six so you don't get boxed in,use your jumpers to drop down behind the defenders to create confusion and break the defense.

[SgtMAD]

As posted in the other poll thread, I think something like this would help improve the gameplay a little and the style a lot.


http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/2351/jumppadrevampidea.png

its stuff like this that will bring ColdFusion back to the game, I can already see him set up facing the tube in a scat camping the hell out of it,

hell drop a deployable in front of it so ppl can't get out and add jackhammers

[kaffis]

I don't mind the idea of jump pads and "jump" elevators.

I'd like to see the horizontal jump pads generally be insufficient for non-LA classes to make it to the intended destination, but get close enough for LA to boost the rest of the way with their jump packs.

This way, LA gets extended horizontal mobility, while others have to hoof it on the ground/mid-level corridors and use the elevators to get to the next platform.

I think that would reduce some of the hectic flying around that makes some bristle, as well as highlighting the LA role more effectively.

[Sledgecrushr]

I don't mind the idea of jump pads and "jump" elevators.

I'd like to see the horizontal jump pads generally be insufficient for non-LA classes to make it to the intended destination, but get close enough for LA to boost the rest of the way with their jump packs.

This way, LA gets extended horizontal mobility, while others have to hoof it on the ground/mid-level corridors and use the elevators to get to the next platform.

I think that would reduce some of the hectic flying around that makes some bristle, as well as highlighting the LA role more effectively.

Man I hope there is all kinds of insane flying around. I want it to be absolute bedlam during a major assault. Literally hundreds of people flying and shooting and burning all at the same time. Bftbg

[Xyntech]

its stuff like this that will bring ColdFusion back to the game, I can already see him set up facing the tube in a scat camping the hell out of it,

hell drop a deployable in front of it so ppl can't get out and add jackhammers

The exit end of the tube would face outwards off the edge of a wall, with no room for deployables or campers on the other side of the one way forcefield.

As for camping or placing deployables on the near side, or across the jump point, those problems would apply to their current jump pad design as well.

And camping inside of the tube itself would be very obvious (if it had transparent walls), and be begging for someone to toss some grenades inside to flush you out.

[CutterJohn]

Yeah, but they have been removing reliance on others in this sequel. So asking players to coordinate to have all the walls cover is not as optimal as "quake walking" to where you are needed.

Zerg > Strategy.

Just sayin'.

There will never be a game with reliable teamwork on that scale. It just doesn't happen. Gamers aren't soldiers. Most of them don't care to take too many orders.

[SgtMAD]

There will never be a game with reliable teamwork on that scale. It just doesn't happen. Gamers aren't soldiers. Most of them don't care to take too many orders.

you don't have a clue,it can and will happen,its not that hard if you make it fun and WIN

we had whole poplocks on one TS server on Markov NC,split between 2 channels,it worked fine and everyone did their jobs.

we also had atleast 100 guys on TS when we invaded Emmy for the '05 E3 Mono Event and that went perfectly.

Just because some of you didn't ever play like that doesn't mean it wasn't being done by others.

[bigcracker]

Jump pads I think are a good idea but make it so that a infiltrator can disable them and engys can repair them

[The Kush]

I would prefer a permiter wall to walk with a courtyard inside like the original. Doesn't anyone remember the glory of courtyards. You could gather there in masses, pin an enemy inside, defend an entrance with engineers laying mines and soldiers running outside desperately . One of my favorite moments of planetside was the "Alamo" effect. Defending a base being pinned by an enemy, making your last stand. Or the feeling of finally breaking through a gate into the courtyard that was so desperately held. I won't be disappointed if they are left in game, but I still would prefer the game without jumppads.

[LONGFELLA KOJ]

How about little floating bricks like in Super Mario. You could even add some coins above them.

[ringring]

I don't like the idea of jump pads. They look silly and don't fit.

If a way of moving quickly in a horizontal direction is needed then why not zip lines a la caves. The only issue some folks had with them was the confusing nature of a spider's web of them. In this situation where the direction would be along the top of a will between towers they'd be fine.

The elevator concept is ok, it fits, as would teleporters.

[Snipefrag]

I would probably prefer teleporters, would fit better. You could make them slightly time delayed so its not instant. Maybe a warm up time before you ping accross but not really that bothered. They are a means to an end, with such big bases foot zerging it around just isn't an option.

[Logri]

I would probably prefer teleporters, would fit better. You could make them slightly time delayed so its not instant. Maybe a warm up time before you ping accross but not really that bothered. They are a means to an end, with such big bases foot zerging it around just isn't an option.

I agree, teleporters would fit in better with the setting imvho. I even liked the router, this might just be the same as the router but stationary. Jumppads make me feel comical and that's not what I want PS2 to be. I always loved the semi realistic feel and the need for tactics, jumping around... meh...
Will see when beta comes, still too early to tell right now based on footage.

[Snipefrag]

I agree, teleporters would fit in better with the setting imvho. I even liked the router, this might just be the same as the router but stationary. Jumppads make me feel comical and that's not what I want PS2 to be. I always loved the semi realistic feel and the need for tactics, jumping around... meh...
Will see when beta comes, still too early to tell right now based on footage.

Yeah.. To me it just feels a bit too 'unreal tournamenty' which as a game i've always seen as slightly ludicrous (admittedly in a fun way) !

[RSphil]

i think it is bases only and it wont make much difference i think. it has been said on a number of occasions that these bases are alot bigger then the old ones on planetside so i recon people wont notice the addition of these jump pads.

as for tribes there are no jump pads in the game and this will be far different. it is in the future after all so i cant see a problem with a fast way to travel from one defensive position to another which is what these jump pads are for from what we have seen. plus while jumping to the other area you get a chance to look around and get a situational awareness of what is happening. just imo though. :)

id say lets see them in game and try them before people go nuts about them.

[Saieno]

So you'd rather have a spawn point at each bastion along the wall? Doesn't that sound a bit excessive? Plus instead of a simple jump you know have to do, despawn, click where you want to go, respawn.

I don't see how I'm suggesting spawn points at each bastion, simply three spawn rooms spread throughout the layout of the base. That way when you respawn you have the choice of the three spawn points in the base, a nearby tower, or a deployed Galaxy, so whichever is closer to your destination you can spawn there. Jump Pads are there for infantry rapid transit in an environment and game where it isn't needed. Light Assault have jet packs for more mobility, the thrust elevators balance that out among the other classes just fine.

Asking why is a good question. I actually believe it is due to ease of understanding. But as for that emboldened/italicized part, care to elaborate?

Jump Pads are great in very fast paced games such as Unreal Tournament, Quake, Nexuiz, etc. This is because Jump Pads work as a method to quickly move across the map or reach certain advantage points. These games aren't about team work, regardless if you are on a team or not. They are lone wolf style games where one person can completely decimate a match without any team work involved. Planetside had everyone healing you, repairing your armor, covering your back, and generally looking out for you as well as their own personal objectives. Having Jump Pads in Planetside merely work to divide you from your squad, shifting your focus from teamwork to getting that next defense kill by hopping to another wall.

Man I hope there is all kinds of insane flying around. I want it to be absolute bedlam during a major assault. Literally hundreds of people flying and shooting and burning all at the same time. Bftbg

Yeah thats what I don't want personally. I can see the YouTube videos now with MAX suits and Infantry flying through the air in slo-mo while "Waltz of the Flowers" from the Nutcracker Suite by Tchaikovsky plays in the background.

[Rbstr]

I like the idea of the lifts as is, just not so much the catapults. I think the concept is sound, in terms of offering quicker transport for infantry in a huge base.
The catapults are kind of silly and arena-shooter-y. I don't think teleports would fit very well either. IMO

My chief worry is that they would have these out on the field and not just the bases. That's the real problem in my mind. if you start letting infantry get catapulted around like that you screw up the idea of fronts and advancement and wear away at the necessity for transport and the game's scale.

[MrKWalmsley]

For those of you claiming these are NOT out of place, who are only using the technological setting as a judging point is not seeing all of the points, in fact not seeing the most important aspect. That aspect is the fact that this is a military setting.

These are militarily advantageous:
Teleporters
Energy/force lifts (I have absolutely no problem with these being in game as seen in the video)

One of the biggest rules of combat is to stay in cover, and never expose yourself to enemy fire unless it is absolutely necessary. Jump pads outright break this rule, by exposing a user to fire from all directions while having absolutely no ability to defend his/herself or avoid harm. In fact it does not even require a fatal blow to actually kill the user as a round could knock the user off of their trajectory and make them fall to death! The risk factor is so high a military would be more likely to not use ANY transport to get from wall to wall than use this death trap.

Now we all know that in this setting, teleportation actually exists, so lets see if this breaks this rule. Teleportation allows you to instantly (unless there is a warmup period which I would be in favour of) from a safe area which is in cover, to another safe area which is in cover.

Given the choice between teleporters and jump pads, the more militarily sound method to use would be teleportation. I highly doubt an advanced (strategically and technologically) professional military would adopt such a risky method of transport which breaks one of the most important combat rules over another method which already exists in this universe, which does not take that risk.

That is why these do not fit in the Planetside universe, at least on the battlefield. In a game of Planetside-ball? Perhaps, but not on the battlefield.


When it comes to the issue of quick transportation horizontally across the base, I personally would opt to not have it. But if it is a mechanic which must be used, then at the very least use one which is not so cartoony and so unfit for a military environment.

[Shamrock]

I agree the jump pads don't fit conceptually ( they instantly make me think of UT/Quake) but im willing to compromise on that as I think they will be a fun addition to the game and useful given the scale of the bases.

[Straws]

I'd really just prefer platforms which extend to each battlement.

However, between Teleport pads and Thrustpads, I'd go with Thrustpads. Teleport functions in areas which are out of reach (for a time) for the attackers is cheap.

At least with Thrustpads, both the attackers and the defenders are still engaged in combat during the process of escaping eachother. With teleports, considering the distances involved, it's "here one seconds, gone the next". Which is fine and dandy when both people can teleport, but when it's for defenders only, it just feels wrong.

Imagine an instant "recall to sanctuary" function in PS1 whilst in combat. Unless the facility is undersiege from all sides, teleport pads would give far too much of an advantage to the defending team.

Add in the point that there are multiple capture points, we're looking at more back and forth during a facility capture than we're currently used to. If too much advantage is given to either side, then I believe it would cause a significant balance issue.

However, to reiterate, I'd really just prefer platforms to run across. I understand that there is an open-ness feel to the design, hence the lack of facility walls (so far), but platforms can be had without walls.

[Mechzz]

For those of you claiming these are NOT out of place, who are only using the technological setting as a judging point is not seeing all of the points, in fact not seeing the most important aspect. That aspect is the fact that this is a military setting.
...

Military setting? The 3 empires between them couldn't remember to build walls rounds their bases this time round.

The real decider on pads will be beta (hope it's not too late too change it by then, as it's a risky move putting them in, I agree) and how much fun they add to a base defence/assault. If they're no fun, they go, end of.

But they do have potential for fun and are not totally out of place in sci-fi military setting. Halo-universe has similar things.

[MrKWalmsley]

Military setting? The 3 empires between them couldn't remember to build walls rounds their bases this time round.

In a setting where jet packs are common place (and predictably would be used more than the other classes) walls really do become obsolete. And before you claim that the walls would keep vehicles out then remember that the space inside the base is so compact that it is practically urban combat and any tank driver with a bit of sense would think twice before driving in such a small space while absolutely surrounded by high attack points whilst in an enemy base chocker-block with enemy soldiers.

The average wall around a modern military base is a wire fence, designed purely to keep people out, not vehicles. And even camp bastion with its piles of sand filled blocks for walls is only designed to keep out cars, and wouldn't stand a chance against a tank whacking into it. So basically in such a tight space where vehicles are vulnerable and ineffective anyway the only real use for a wall is to keep out infantry, and in a setting where your average soldier has the capability to quickly and effortlessly fly over the wall they become useless as a defence mechanism.

[Mechzz]

Are we being trolled with the pads?
Here is the first screenie we ever saw of an amp station. It looks fully walled to me.
http://www.planetside-universe.com/media/album/ddu5pvtd3g/basescreenshot_trayoct.jpg

Maybe the pads are just a wind-up? That or the devs do have fully walled bases as a fall-back in case the man-cannons are full of fail?

[2coolforu]

Yeah, it looked as if they dropped the walls in favor of the jump pads. I think the Bases really, really need to be walled for the defenders to have any chance of holding it.

I think having walkways is more immersive regardless of how long it takes to walk around. With 2000 people on a continent, 600 ish on each empire there should be plenty to defend a base.

[Hamma]

Are we being trolled with the pads?
Here is the first screenie we ever saw of an amp station. It looks fully walled to me.
http://www.planetside-universe.com/media/album/ddu5pvtd3g/basescreenshot_trayoct.jpg

Maybe the pads are just a wind-up? That or the devs do have fully walled bases as a fall-back in case the man-cannons are full of fail?

We saw that image quite a while ago - numerous things have been redesigned since.

[Mechzz]

We saw that image quite a while ago - numerous things have been redesigned since.

I understand that things have changed and moved on. Just making the point that peeps following the game would have had that "traditional but updated" base look in their minds and might explain some of the strong reaction to such a big change.

Also, if the Devs kept those models, hopefully it means we can change back if the no-walls design doesn't work.

I've been on the fence on this one, and the community seems to feel it's a risky change.

[MrKWalmsley]

Are we being trolled with the pads?
Here is the first screenie we ever saw of an amp station. It looks fully walled to me.
http://www.planetside-universe.com/media/album/ddu5pvtd3g/basescreenshot_trayoct.jpg

Maybe the pads are just a wind-up? That or the devs do have fully walled bases as a fall-back in case the man-cannons are full of fail?

There is the possibility of course that not all bases will be designed to be the same. Some with walls others without.

I seriously hope if the jump pads do end up going in (which is something to hope against in itself) they do not end up allowing grenades to be lobbed into them and propelled like Halo. Otherwise this will literally be a frag fest mechanic.

[Rbstr]

There is the possibility of course that not all bases will be designed to be the same. Some with walls others without.

That's what I suspect. Not all bases will be walls + variations on an interior.

I don't quite get this thought thread of "wall-less" bases. There were certainly walls in the recent video.

[headcrab13]

Loving the jump pads. Defending the walls would be a nightmare without a quick transport like that, because these bases are absolutely massive compared to Planetside's.

[MrKWalmsley]

Loving the jump pads. Defending the walls would be a nightmare without a quick transport like that, because these bases are absolutely massive compared to Planetside's.

The fact that the defenders have a fortified and easily defendable position is a nightmare to an attacker enough, let alone the defenders being able to cross massive distances in mere seconds while you slowly trundle about. If you began to move to attack another position the defenders would be there in full force before you even got half way. This is just giving far too much of an advantage to the defenders, and with a fairly silly and nonsensical method.

[Duddy]

Jump Pads are great in very fast paced games such as Unreal Tournament, Quake, Nexuiz, etc. This is because Jump Pads work as a method to quickly move across the map or reach certain advantage points. These games aren't about team work, regardless if you are on a team or not. They are lone wolf style games where one person can completely decimate a match without any team work involved. Planetside had everyone healing you, repairing your armor, covering your back, and generally looking out for you as well as their own personal objectives. Having Jump Pads in Planetside merely work to divide you from your squad, shifting your focus from teamwork to getting that next defense kill by hopping to another wall.

I can't help but feel the logic there is a little flawed:

List of games has Thrust/Jump pads
Said games revolve around individualistic gameplay
Thrust/Jump pads mean PS will encourage individualistic gameplay


A critical step is missed here that considers how these are implemented and used and more importantly the actual affect they have on the game (which we can only speculate at best right now).

Hate to use such an example, but to show the jumping to conclusions in a different context:

People have internet
Some people use the internet to do illegal things
All people do illegal things on the internet


The truth is that these probably don't encourage "lone-wolves" any more than any other mechanic in PS2, heck there were far more mechanics that did so in PS1; Med/Engy for everyone anyone? Ever increasing access to certs?

[MrBloodworth]

I am quite turned off by them to be honest. I don't have a problem with the elevator/lift implementation but being able to just launch between towers? I don't like that at all. If you want to move from one area of the base to the next you should have to actually run there. I hated the caves and I really dislike the thought of this.

PlanetSide should be more tactical.

It just adds an un-needed element to the game for the sake of making it faster.

This.

There are lots of un-needed elements in PS2 for the sake of "faster" going on.

It really REALLY feels like the first line of the design page is "Play alone, together", like every other FPS. So many elements seem to be to keep the zerg cycling. That's not Planetside.

[MrBloodworth]

There will never be a game with reliable teamwork on that scale. It just doesn't happen. Gamers aren't soldiers. Most of them don't care to take too many orders.

I believe you are incorrect. Its up to the design, and the tools in game to require it.

If Zerg is what you design for, zerg is what you get.

[Vancha]

For those of you claiming these are NOT out of place, who are only using the technological setting as a judging point is not seeing all of the points, in fact not seeing the most important aspect. That aspect is the fact that this is a military setting.
You seem to be saying that to imply the need for some sort of realism. This is a militaristic fantasy setting.

One of the biggest rules of combat is to stay in cover, and never expose yourself to enemy fire unless it is absolutely necessary. Jump pads outright break this rule, by exposing a user to fire from all directions while having absolutely no ability to defend his/herself or avoid harm. In fact it does not even require a fatal blow to actually kill the user as a round could knock the user off of their trajectory and make them fall to death! The risk factor is so high a military would be more likely to not use ANY transport to get from wall to wall than use this death trap.
The biggest rule of combat in a fictional 2642 where every soldier is invincible, or the biggest rule of combat in reality 2012, where every solder only lives once?

I think if we found a way for people to reincarnate infinitely, self-preservation would be a decidedly lower priority.

Now we all know that in this setting, teleportation actually exists, so lets see if this breaks this rule. Teleportation allows you to instantly (unless there is a warmup period which I would be in favour of) from a safe area which is in cover, to another safe area which is in cover.
Do we? Chronologically this is not a sequel - it's at least a reset, if not an entire re-imagining. The closest thing to teleportation that we know to exist are warpgates, which are huge and I don't know that they're man-made. If the TR/NC/VS were even capable of teleportation tech, we don't know that it could be scaled down that much.

Plus, y'know, this is a game and given the choice, would you rather teleport or fly?

[MrKWalmsley]

There will never be a game with reliable teamwork on that scale. It just doesn't happen. Gamers aren't soldiers. Most of them don't care to take too many orders.

Ever heard of Project Reality Mod for Battlefield 2? That is a game which actively discourages un-tactical playing, and in fact the game play mechanics make it practically impossible for anyone to survive if they go it alone (unless you are a sniper, and that is limited to one sniper per team) or do not work together. I mean the mechanics are laid out so you can clearly see a massive distinction in effectiveness when comparing people not using voice commands or using chat and those who do. It is possible to do, and with warfare on such a scale such mechanics are advised otherwise it will not be anything reminiscent of an actual war but rather a larger scale version of Halo multiplayer!

[blbeta]

Functionally I think they are a fine idea and will work well, and are rather necessary with the larger base sizes. Stylistically, I feel they're a bit over the top. A teleporter might be preferable.

If they are going to have a fast travel like this around the base, there should be risk involved. With a teleporter there is no risk. At least with the jump pads you can be plucked out of the air.

That said, I prefer non at all. If you don't have enough people to protect a certain side of the base, then you just don't have enough. Letting people zip around too easily defeats that.

If the bases are too big to protect with average projected populations, perhaps the bases are too big. Big bases sound great, but if they are too big it will hurt the game play. This in turn can hurt how fun it "feels".

Unfortunately you can't really tell until you get a sizable population to test it with. From the footage, that won't be anytime too soon.

On a very positive note, it is B-E-A-utiful. Love how the night fighting may turn out. I do hope there are a lot darker nights where you won't even be able to make out the far mountains. Heck or not even be able to see more than a few hundred feet without lights.

[MrKWalmsley]

You seem to be saying that to imply the need for some sort of realism. This is a militaristic fantasy setting.


The biggest rule of combat in a fictional 2642 where every soldier is invincible, or the biggest rule of combat in reality 2012, where every solder only lives once?

I think if we found a way for people to reincarnate infinitely, self-preservation would be a decidedly lower priority.


Do we? Chronologically this is not a sequel - it's at least a reset, if not an entire re-imagining. The closest thing to teleportation that we know to exist are warpgates, which are huge and I don't know that they're man-made. If the TR/NC/VS were even capable of teleportation tech, we don't know that it could be scaled down that much.

Plus, y'know, this is a game and given the choice, would you rather teleport or fly?

I would prefer to teleport. Far less chance of being killed in mid air by base campers.

Also if you are saying that because this is a fantasy setting would you approve of a football bomb that can be kicked at an opponent which then explodes into leaves? How about a tactical nuke rifle, capable of firing hundreds of nukes per second, which is given to every player? How about a mechanic where no-one takes damage from being crashed into by a galaxy? Or a mechanic where the galaxy bounces off you and takes damage if it hits you but you survive? If not why not if there is no need for any realism.

And if you are going to talk about the functionality of these ideas then why did you not bother to reply to my comment talking about my opposition to the functionality and instead go after my desire for a bit of realism?

Plus, cloning is not invincibility. It is not even reincarnation. A soldier who dies does not wake up in a cloning pod, he never wakes up. A copy wakes up, nothing more. So self preservation would still be involved. And incase you are going to insist that the system is not cloning but perhaps a machine which brings a body put in it back to life then you would have to explain how said body can teleport back to the base in such a short time. And if that is the case then we have a teleport system!

In actual fact "respawning" still uses up military resources, the armour the person was wearing is lost, the energy that kept the suit online let alone the resources it taken to rebuild the soldier and the amount of energy such a process would use up, and militarise do not waste resources when it is totally unnecessary by allowing their soldiers to be a bunch of rambos.

Also a death sets your troops back, by decreasing the amount of fire-power that is available to hand in a battle, so I'm sure even in a setting where respawning is possible troops would be trained to avoid being put out of action at what could be a critical point in a battle by not doing such a simple and intuitive thing as taking cover.

As for the chronology, I will happily wait for it to be revealed and come back to either admit that I could be wrong about this idea or to gloat about its increased possibility.

[WorldOfForms]

You seem to be saying that to imply the need for some sort of realism. This is a militaristic fantasy setting.


The biggest rule of combat in a fictional 2642 where every soldier is invincible, or the biggest rule of combat in reality 2012, where every solder only lives once?

I think if we found a way for people to reincarnate infinitely, self-preservation would be a decidedly lower priority.


Do we? Chronologically this is not a sequel - it's at least a reset, if not an entire re-imagining. The closest thing to teleportation that we know to exist are warpgates, which are huge and I don't know that they're man-made. If the TR/NC/VS were even capable of teleportation tech, we don't know that it could be scaled down that much.

Plus, y'know, this is a game and given the choice, would you rather teleport or fly?

Every time you deconstruct and spawn, at a base or a Galaxy, you'll be teleporting.

[Gandhi]

I take it these jump pads work by giving you some kind of gravity boost or something. I'd like to be able to hack them to reverse that, so stepping on the pad instantly crushes you under the weight of a thousand suns. Now you've got to ask yourself each time, "Do I really want to use that pad?"

[CuddlyChud]

I dunno if realism is really applicable to a futuristic video game, but if you think about it jump packs are already accepted in the Planetside canon, so jump pads seems like a natural next step for widespread use.

[Hmr85]

I'm not sure how I feel about the jump pads right now. I love them but at the same time they just look odd. I feel like they need to lock the guns down if your flying from spot to spot. IDK, I'll reserve my judgment till beta.

[ArbitraryDemise]

The fact that the defenders have a fortified and easily defendable position is a nightmare to an attacker enough, let alone the defenders being able to cross massive distances in mere seconds while you slowly trundle about. If you began to move to attack another position the defenders would be there in full force before you even got half way. This is just giving far too much of an advantage to the defenders, and with a fairly silly and nonsensical method.

This works both ways though, once an attacking force has gained a foothold they can use jump-pads to rapidly insert into other areas of the base that they would other-wise have to advance on foot, presumably while under fire.

So this will also be a nightmare for defending forces as well. Because once a jump-pad is lost, the attacking force can rapidly move large numbers of soldiers to the other jump-pads. In this case, holding the jump-pads is going to be a major objective for both the attackers and the defenders.


I'm not sure how I feel about the jump pads right now. I love them but at the same time they just look odd. I feel like they need to lock the guns down if your flying from spot to spot. IDK, I'll reserve my judgment till beta.

This. As the whole implementation and appearance seems a little cartoonish to me. Especially when you consider how well a lot of Planetside's technology is pretty well grounded in real world science.

I would prefer to teleport. Far less chance of being killed in mid air by base campers.


That would be far, far too easy. It would also make it impossible to intercept any incoming enemy reinforcements before they were literally right on top of you. I suspect this implementation is the compromise between allowing people to move quickly around a base, and allowing attackers/defenders the ability to attack their opponents as they try to move up to a position.

[Talek Krell]

I'm not sure how I feel about this. On the one hand with bases so large I can see the defenders needing a mobility boost. On the other it seems like this would remove a lot of the value of attacking a base from a different direction than expected, and it looks shark-jumpingly terrible. Makes me think of Unreal Tournament, and I'd rather not take aesthetic inspiration from them.

So this will also be a nightmare for defending forces as well. Because once a jump-pad is lost, the attacking force can rapidly move large numbers of soldiers to the other jump-pads.That presumes they don't identify friend from foe though. Even if they don't, do we want it to work that way? I kind of prefer the need to push through a base rather than launch yourself across it.



That would be far, far too easy. It would also make it impossible to intercept any incoming enemy reinforcements before they were literally right on top of you. I suspect this implementation is the compromise between allowing people to move quickly around a base, and allowing attackers/defenders the ability to attack their opponents as they try to move up to a position.Point, but surely we can come up with something that looks less wacky?

What about an underground trench system with some sort of zipline/movestrip setup? That would move people around, not look ridiculous, and you could still break into the tunnels and setup blockades to bottle up the defenders.

[vampyro]

I dont like the fact that jump pads are being implemented. I was already skeptical about jump jets. Who cares that a base will be hard to defend because they made an open design, the devs are already setting this game up to be more offensive anyway. Vehicles and infantry are already easier to kill. Will combat engineering not be effective enough to help buy the defenders time? Will there be no type of base vehicle shield? There are alot more options than jump pad maneuverability.

[Vancha]

Every time you deconstruct and spawn, at a base or a Galaxy, you'll be teleporting.
Pretty sure that's supposed to be a copy/paste mechanism, not a teleportation one.

Also if you are saying that because this is a fantasy setting would you approve of a football bomb that can be kicked at an opponent which then explodes into leaves? How about a tactical nuke rifle, capable of firing hundreds of nukes per second, which is given to every player? How about a mechanic where no-one takes damage from being crashed into by a galaxy? Or a mechanic where the galaxy bounces off you and takes damage if it hits you but you survive? If not why not if there is no need for any realism.
There's realism and then there's a flat-out hostile attack upon any potential suspension of disbelief. Jump pads and floating tanks aren't quite in the realm of leaf-bombs, god guns and rubber galaxies. Now if we had a stereotypical trampoline bouncing us from base post to base post (I think Gotham City Imposters has these), then I'd agree with you.

And if you are going to talk about the functionality of these ideas then why did you not bother to reply to my comment talking about my opposition to the functionality and instead go after my desire for a bit of realism?
Because your opposition to the functionality was based on a flawed premise, so I dealt with that instead.

Plus, cloning is not invincibility. It is not even reincarnation. A soldier who dies does not wake up in a cloning pod, he never wakes up. A copy wakes up, nothing more. So self preservation would still be involved. And incase you are going to insist that the system is not cloning but perhaps a machine which brings a body put in it back to life then you would have to explain how said body can teleport back to the base in such a short time. And if that is the case then we have a teleport system!
It's a new avatar, but it retains it's experience/levels/certs due to being a game, and it's memories/experiences/relationships due to being controlled by a person in another universe.

In actual fact "respawning" still uses up military resources, the armour the person was wearing is lost, the energy that kept the suit online let alone the resources it taken to rebuild the soldier and the amount of energy such a process would use up, and militarise do not waste resources when it is totally unnecessary by allowing their soldiers to be a bunch of rambos.
Respawning doesn't cost resources and neither does armour apart from MAXs. I guess you have a point for MAXs, but then they might not be able to jump anyway.


Also a death sets your troops back, by decreasing the amount of fire-power that is available to hand in a battle, so I'm sure even in a setting where respawning is possible troops would be trained to avoid being put out of action at what could be a critical point in a battle by not doing such a simple and intuitive thing as taking cover.
Maybe not when it's a choice between taking cover or risking your skin to jump across a base and stop a control point being taken. That's called risk/reward and it makes games happy.


Edit: Also, in regards to ziplines, did anyone really think having people sliding along in mid-air in PS1's caves looked any less ridiculous than if they were using a jump-pad?

[ArmedZealot]

It's a new avatar, but it retains it's experience/levels/certs due to being a game, and it's memories/experiences/relationships due to being controlled by a person in another universe.

Has this ever been explained in the lore anywhere? Is there some central identity database somewhere?

[ArbitraryDemise]

That presumes they don't identify friend from foe though. Even if they don't, do we want it to work that way? I kind of prefer the need to push through a base rather than launch yourself across it.


There-in is a very good point, and one that I have very mixed feelings on.

This sort of mechanic does something that all the capture points in the world cannot, which is to diversify objectives and provide ways for more organised outfits to gain an advantage even when they are outnumbered.

On the other hand though, I love the rush that comes from pushing to reinforce a section of the line that has collapsed or is about to collapse. the race to get their in time to reinforce your beleaguered comrades can be exciting in itself.


Point, but surely we can come up with something that looks less wacky?

I somewhat agree with this point, as of now the whole system looks a little bit cartoonish to me.

[Vancha]

Has this ever been explained in the lore anywhere? Is there some central identity database somewhere?
Lore-wise I seem to remember it's meant to transfer their consciousness into a "cloned" body, but again, that would've been the first Planetside.

[Toppopia]

Has this ever been explained in the lore anywhere? Is there some central identity database somewhere?

Nope, soldiers die and get reconstructed in a tube, that it no longer you, its your memories and body, but your personality is gone because your brain might react differently to your previous person, so if you die, you are gone, forever, now its like a completely new person is in your body who happens to have the same memories as you. So soldiers won't want to die because they will cease to exit but their body will continue to roam the planet.

[Vancha]

Nope, soldiers die and get reconstructed in a tube, that it no longer you, its your memories and body, but your personality is gone because your brain might react differently to your previous person, so if you die, you are gone, forever, now its like a completely new person is in your body who happens to have the same memories as you. So soldiers won't want to die because they will cease to exit but their body will continue to roam the planet.
First Planetside or second?

Not that it really matters, considering the personality is transferred via the player, ensuring every new incarnation has exactly the same personality as before. ;)

Edit: I'm sure the advent of respawning was mentioned in one of the Planetside 2 backstory chapters, but I'm damned if I can find it now...

[Toppopia]

First Planetside or second?

Both??

I am basing this on what i think would happen and our complex our brain is, like if we finally invented teleport technology in real life, i believe that it would deconstruct your atoms and reconstruct them somewhere else, which would result in your body being rebuilt, but your electrical path ways in the brain could be contructed differently or connect differently to before causing a different personality or a 'new you' to be in your body, so your old self would be technically dead, so it would be like someone being born but appearing in a body that has memories of someone else and past experiences, thats what i think, or it could be like waking up from a coma or being brought back to life, but it could happen like that. We would never know.

[ArbitraryDemise]

First Planetside or second?

Not that it really matters, considering the personality is transferred via the player, ensuring every new incarnation has exactly the same personality as before. ;)

Edit: I'm sure the advent of respawning was mentioned in one of the Planetside 2 backstory chapters, but I'm damned if I can find it now...

I believe it was mentioned in PS1's manual, but I'd have to check.

[MrKWalmsley]

Pretty sure that's supposed to be a copy/paste mechanism, not a teleportation one.


There's realism and then there's a flat-out hostile attack upon any potential suspension of disbelief. Jump pads and floating tanks aren't quite in the realm of leaf-bombs, god guns and rubber galaxies. Now if we had a stereotypical trampoline bouncing us from base post to base post (I think Gotham City Imposters has these), then I'd agree with you.


Because your opposition to the functionality was based on a flawed premise, so I dealt with that instead.


It's a new avatar, but it retains it's experience/levels/certs due to being a game, and it's memories/experiences/relationships due to being controlled by a person in another universe.


Respawning doesn't cost resources and neither does armour apart from MAXs. I guess you have a point for MAXs, but then they might not be able to jump anyway.



Maybe not when it's a choice between taking cover or risking your skin to jump across a base and stop a control point being taken. That's called risk/reward and it makes games happy.


Edit: Also, in regards to ziplines, did anyone really think having people sliding along in mid-air in PS1's caves looked any less ridiculous than if they were using a jump-pad?

I can come up with justifications which makes those have a sense of realism to them! The leaves are nano-razor plant leaves from the planet of Zacheron and have the the power to cut through any armour when accelerated by the bomb, and is made of an unknown and un-replicatable material! What amount of suspention of disbelief do you have to incur to believe that it is possible to put a small nuclear warhead into rifle rounds? Not much. And I'm not talking about rubber galaxies I'm talking about Adadiamonite armour! Capable of withstanding a tactical nuke!

You go all out of your way try and explain in detail exactly why you think my lore is incorrect yet to my functionality comment (which is really the one that matters) you cannot even be bothered to explain why it is flawed? I'd like to hear why.

The clone retaining the memories of its original still does nothing to say that the person original does not actually die, it just an add on description to what the clone would actually be. The soldier will still die, so self preservation is STILL in play!

Also your comment about respawning not costing resources you are suddenly jumping from the lore of the game to the functionality of the gameplay. In the LORE of the game (which is what this specific discussion is about, stop switching between lore and functionality when it suits you) the base requires power, the respawner requires the consumption of power, the reconstruction of your body uses up resources in the construction of the armour, weapons and the body itself!

And finally to the comment regarding risk/reward, the risk of being exposed in the air unable to defend yourself whatsoever and flying into an area which is known to be filled with enemies, and using a fixed trajectory which is likely to have been marked out by patient snipers already, and dumps you in an area the enemy will expect you to be and be able to predict where you will be attacking from as well as clearly see you coming as you hurtle through the air, I would say that is a risk which overrules the reward.

Such troops would be better served sprinting for twenty seconds so that they can attack from a chosen firing point rather than the already-known place you happen to land with the jump pad, and as such will almost guarantee a higher chance of success in the fighting, with the only risk being time.

And from a military perspective, time is less valuable than available fire-power, when it comes to a risk it is much more preferable to choose the safest bet (which does not endanger the mission by putting the operatives in increased risk of failing) than taking the easy option. Objectives can be taken back, so getting there as quickly as possible and using an extremely risky way to do it is unnecessary and counter productive. Eliminate the enemies from a firing point of your choosing will then leave the objective wide open to re-capture.

[Graywolves]

Has this ever been explained in the lore anywhere? Is there some central identity database somewhere?

Your consciousness, memories, DNA, etc. are stored in a Matrix/database. Upon death you are reconstructed, leaving off where you did.

For all intents and purposes, it is you. But there is a philosophy exercise upon debating stuff like this. If you are completely destroyed in one area but recreated exactly as you were elsewhere it would in appearance be teleportation, but you are being destroyed and cloned in practice.



Off topic though.

[Vancha]

Stuff
The embarrassment I'd feel by continuing to discuss such minutiae seriously has overtaken my desire to do so. Your first paragraph demonstrates the irrelevance of lore justification for the existence of in-game features, so lets move on to the functionality.

What is your problem functionally? That people are too easy to hit in the air? Look at the speed he's flying through the air. Both times he does something to kill the momentum and even then he's "vulnerable" for all of 3 seconds (if you can even call something that size, going that distance, at that speed, "vulnerable"). The chances of him getting picked off in the air seem pretty slim. We don't know how the snipers work yet, but I doubt they'll be AWPs, immediately swinging their crosshairs across the screen and getting headshots on people being catapulted at WTF miles an hour.

[MrKWalmsley]

What is your problem functionally? That people are too easy to hit in the air? Look at the speed he's flying through the air. Both times he does something to kill the momentum and even then he's "vulnerable" for all of 3 seconds (if you can even call something that size, going that distance, at that speed, "vulnerable"). The chances of him getting picked off in the air seem pretty slim. We don't know how the snipers work yet, but I doubt they'll be AWPs, immediately swinging their crosshairs across the screen and getting headshots on people being catapulted at WTF miles an hour.

Right so first off you claimed that my comment on functionality is flawed BEFORE I stated all of the above which you are commenting about (which I was talking from a LORE point again about the military tactics, backing up once again that you have a problem distinguishing lore from gameplay functionality) and yet you did not respond to my actual comment on the functionality what so ever. This was my comment:

The fact that the defenders have a fortified and easily defendable position is a nightmare to an attacker enough, let alone the defenders being able to cross massive distances in mere seconds while you slowly trundle about. If you began to move to attack another position the defenders would be there in full force before you even got half way. This is just giving far too much of an advantage to the defenders, and with a fairly silly and nonsensical method.

So either you lied and hadn't actually read my comment about functionality and called it flawed out of hand (since I always keep to either lore or functionality solely per post, admittedly the last line was a dig at its mismatch in lore) OR you did read that comment as you suggested and instead of responding to that chose to go after my LORE criticism which I made AFTER the point you said you read my functionality point. Which is it?

[Vancha]

Or I don't keep track of who's said what in an 11 page thread and instead respond to each post on it's own merits. You should have said that your comment about functionality was in an entirely different post, otherwise I have no reason to think you're talking about a different post to the one I'm replying to, which itself had some comments that could be referring to functionality.

As it is, I wouldn't have found your other post to be worth addressing or even keeping in mind (which I suppose is why I forgot it). It makes too many assumptions about a game that no one in this thread has played. It's invalid.

[IHateMMOs]

Has anyone suggested replacing the vertical jump pad with a ladder? It functions the same, and makes more sense. And maybe just replace the jump pad with a bridge-like structure connection the towers. Or just put some walls up. It really doesn't look like a base without walls, it looks more like a ship came by, unloaded all its cargo and flew out.

[Knocky]

To me it is just a cooler form of the zip lines.

[Gandhi]

Has anyone suggested replacing the vertical jump pad with a ladder? It functions the same, and makes more sense. And maybe just replace the jump pad with a bridge-like structure connection the towers. Or just put some walls up. It really doesn't look like a base without walls, it looks more like a ship came by, unloaded all its cargo and flew out.
Pretty sure there are walls, the pads are just a way to get from one corner of the walls to another without having to run the entire distance along them. The corner towers are taller than the base walls, like they were on most castles back in the day.

[MrKWalmsley]

Or I don't keep track of who's said what in an 11 page thread and instead respond to each post on it's own merits. You should have said that your comment about functionality was in an entirely different post, otherwise I have no reason to think you're talking about a different post to the one I'm replying to, which itself had some comments that could be referring to functionality.

As it is, I wouldn't have found your other post to be worth addressing or even keeping in mind (which I suppose is why I forgot it). It makes too many assumptions about a game that no one in this thread has played. It's invalid.

Functionality refers to the actual use of the device itself and what it does from a gameplay perspective, lore refers to how an actual military in this setting would view this device and its effects. Saying the military would not use it because it exposes you is not referring to in game functionality (where you take into account team balance) as it is looking at the device through the eyes of an Officer rather than a player. Whereas speculating that it would mean that it would be hard to attack a base and that is the reason they should be pulled is a gameplay functionality comment.

Like I said, in lore terms the military would use teleporters if they are available, and would most likely not even bother using jump pads if they are not. Whereas from a functionality perspective I was suggesting we have neither.

[Stardouser]

To me it is just a cooler form of the zip lines.

A key difference is that zip lines were in the caves only. Now it's being foisted upon the main game, and not only that, this is pretty early in the revelations, what manner of other things like this are we liable to discover as we go along?

[xSquirtle]

well the devs needed to make sure they added a little halo to the game after all.

[CidHighwind]

If anything should be implemented, it should be a slower, but phsyically DESTROYABLE, flying, un-piloted small troop transport. This would make it much more real, and simulate the situational need of a battle much more realistically.

[sylphaen]

I think jumppads/launchpads are a good idea. I does not make players invulnerable, it is not instant, it can be blocked and above all, you can mess up your jump and say "F*&%!".

Waiting for beta to see how it works in large scale combat but at this point, I feel like it is a superb idea.

[Gonefshn]

I kept going back and forth. While watching the video for the first time I was like "WTF IS THIS!?" Then afterwards I was warming up to it. Then I hated it again. Now I'm pretty much cool with it. I get what they are trying to do and I think it will work out well

[Sledgecrushr]

I think its going to be a blast, really it looks like a lot of fun and I want to use one of those launch pads NOW!

[IHateMMOs]

The pads on the towers are fine, but the vertical ones seem out of place. I would really appreciate a ladder much more. Would be more practical. Why put a jump pad on a side of a building when you can just attach a ladder to it. Maybe since there's already a jump pad on the towers, they wanted the whole jump pad set. But I think they're fine, and completely fit the theme. They're in the future. Seriously. It's the 2600-s, Vanu weapons should be considered standard by than.

[Thomas]

The pads on the towers are fine, but the vertical ones seem out of place. I would really appreciate a ladder much more. Would be more practical. Why put a jump pad on a side of a building when you can just attach a ladder to it. Maybe since there's already a jump pad on the towers, they wanted the whole jump pad set. But I think they're fine, and completely fit the theme. They're in the future. Seriously. It's the 2600-s, Vanu weapons should be considered standard by than.

Huge problem when you have 10 people going up and down the ladder at the same time though.

[IHateMMOs]

Good point, but maybe just have a couple of ladders.

[OcO]

I'm just going to copy and paste my reply from the thread with the poll over here since it is the same subject.



I have been lurking on these boards for quite some time now. These jump pads however are absolutely horrible though and have finally made me wanna register to voice my opinion.

The vertical "gravity well" elevators are bad enough but whatever I guess these would be less strain since they are not actual moving elevators.

The jump pads though are just awful and I seriously hope they remove them. Base defenders already have the re-spawn advantage when trying to hold off an attacking force. Giving them almost instant travel to most any part of the base is to much. If this was a 12v12 or 32v32 game then sure I could maybe see the need for this kind of a feature with the bases the size they are. But we're talking about 100, 200, 300+ people all being able to move to the far side of a base in seconds.

This is imo the definition of "dumbing down" a game. It removes part of the tactical aspects and promotes zerging. A force attacks from the north side of a base and the defenders all go there to engage them. But wait what it was only a small feint by the enemy commander to pull the defenders away from the south perimeter of the base where the main bulk of the attack force has been sneaking around to attack from? No problem the full defending force is able to quick jump to the south perimeter in just seconds after overwhelming the north side rouse force. Attackers have most always needed a larger force due to defenders being within a fortified area and that is how it should be. Now however the attacking force is gonna have to be exponentially larger than the defenders cause the defenders are able to respond to any threat from any direction with their full force within moments.

[Khorneholio]

To me it is just a cooler form of the zip lines.

I think they are a slightly LESS cool form of the zip lines... which were already pretty uncool. :lol:

[Sturmhardt]

I think the JumpPads might be fun. I like fast movement and thus I enjoy games like Tribes or Quake 3 - in both games the JumPads were pretty nice so I dont really see a problem here. As long as they are not EVERYWHERE I think they might add something of value to PS2.

[Khorneholio]

I think the JumpPads might be fun. I like fast movement and thus I enjoy games like Tribes or Quake 3 - in both games the JumPads were pretty nice so I dont really see a problem here. As long as they are not EVERYWHERE I think they might add something of value to PS2.

Pardon me for being assumptive... but the problem is that this game isn't supposed to be anything like Tribes or Quake. There are already plenty of fast action, cartoon physics, twitch shooters on the market. Pick one, heck pick em all, and go wild.

Planetside was intended to fill a different niche, one that is scarcely represented in gaming anymore. It's intended to be a more deliberately paced, teamwork focused, massively scaled tactical shooter.

I like hamburgers, and I really like pizza. If there were already 5 burger joints in my neighborhood and a pizza hut opens down the block, I wouldn't go there and expect to order a burger because "Hey, I like burgers also".

[Tikuto]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v18/Estimatedprophet/do-not-want-dog.jpg


I'd rather have the Light Assault have a unique function where when approaching location of previous 'jump pad' location, they are prompt to do a jump-thrust action into location like the previous 'jump pad'. I say previous because I really don't want to see them again.

Those lifts are ok though maybe they could be sabotaged, too.

[MrKWalmsley]

I'm just going to copy and paste my reply from the thread with the poll over here since it is the same subject.



I have been lurking on these boards for quite some time now. These jump pads however are absolutely horrible though and have finally made me wanna register to voice my opinion.

The vertical "gravity well" elevators are bad enough but whatever I guess these would be less strain since they are not actual moving elevators.

The jump pads though are just awful and I seriously hope they remove them. Base defenders already have the re-spawn advantage when trying to hold off an attacking force. Giving them almost instant travel to most any part of the base is to much. If this was a 12v12 or 32v32 game then sure I could maybe see the need for this kind of a feature with the bases the size they are. But we're talking about 100, 200, 300+ people all being able to move to the far side of a base in seconds.

This is imo the definition of "dumbing down" a game. It removes part of the tactical aspects and promotes zerging. A force attacks from the north side of a base and the defenders all go there to engage them. But wait what it was only a small feint by the enemy commander to pull the defenders away from the south perimeter of the base where the main bulk of the attack force has been sneaking around to attack from? No problem the full defending force is able to quick jump to the south perimeter in just seconds after overwhelming the north side rouse force. Attackers have most always needed a larger force due to defenders being within a fortified area and that is how it should be. Now however the attacking force is gonna have to be exponentially larger than the defenders cause the defenders are able to respond to any threat from any direction with their full force within moments.

^This^
It basically gives bad commanders and tacticians a bail out for making a mistake.

"You make a massive mistake by diverting a large proportion of your forces to fight off a small group of attacking enemies in a rushed decision? No problem! Just order your disorganised rabble to use these jump pads and you will never have to learn from your mistake, nor will you suffer any tactical consequences! Well done Commander Noob, you just won the battle! Not because of your abilities as a commander but because of a mechanic which facilitates your lack of skill, and keeps those unfit for command in their positions of power!"

"You come up with a tactic to send a small force to attack the enemy position from one position to draw enemies to it, then attacking a vastly undefended side with your main force? And you do this with superb organisation and with impeccable timing? Sorry, as soon as the enemy catch wind of your movement towards the undefended position, they can all redeploy to your new attack site quicker than you can arrive. Snuck up on the wall? Well the second you fire a shot you will be swarmed in seconds by redeployed enemies jumping in from every direction and using jump pads to get into surrounding positions. I'm sorry Commander Meticulous, you lost the battle. Not because of inferior tactical skill or lack of organisation, but because of a mechanic which gives rise to zerg mentality and disorganised rabbles, and almost nullifies tactical thinking beyond 'run in through that there door an' kill 'em all'"

[Pyreal]

I noticed in TB's vid that one of the outlaying capture points had one as well. I don't know if it just sent you into the base of if you could jump from the base to that outlaying post.
You shouldn't be able to jump from the base to the outlaying post after the point was captured. If you can its basically like enemy infantry can spawn there after you have captured it, and I don't think that's right. They should have to hoof it, or mount up and retake that point, not sling through the air.

[Gelgoog]

Jump pads seem like one of those ideas that gets thrown around in a board room without much consideration on how it would adversely affect gameplay. Maybe part of the problem is that the developers see successful or innovative games and do not want to be left behind, so they feel that they must also impliment similiar features into their games. Its the WoW/BF3 effect.

Up till now, I could pretty much get behind everything I have read or seen in gameplay videos, but jump pads are just a BAD idea all around. We already have rocket jumping light infanty, that should be enough. If you decided to get a MAX then your fat ass should have to waddle his way through the compound and up and down stairs.

[Tikuto]

- Replace 'jump pads' with a 'hallway' or 'stairway' portal.


Visual Concept:
Base design would have a hidden enclosed dual carriageway leading directly, safely and speedily to the destination.
Animation: Your character enters this 'portal' pathway to the next area of facility's battlements.
You press [F] on this doorway into the limited-view stairway or hallway.

Gameplay Concept:
This is the fast travel that is more conventional.
You simply press the [F] key to use it, wait a few seconds and you appear at the other side.
Your camera viewing relocates to the other side waiting for your character to exit. This allows you to see what's going on as you exit, allowing to you make a tactical decision before your character becomes vulnerable.
You'd be invulnerable when you enter this 'portal' hallway as your character is hidden in it.
These portals can be locked or unlocked by any enemy;
and unlocked safely by friendly Engineers or violently by anyone.
http://www.planetside-universe.com/showthread.php?p=695481#post695481

[Vancha]

But we're talking about 100, 200, 300+ people all being able to move to the far side of a base in seconds.

Sorry, as soon as the enemy catch wind of your movement towards the undefended position, they can all redeploy to your new attack site quicker than you can arrive.
How do either of you know this will be possible?

[captainkapautz]

How do either of you know this will be possible?

I'd wager a guess and say simple deduction?

Say 70 people defend the east portion, enemy flanks round to west portion, command says "defend west", cue 70 people mancannoning across the base faster than a normal footzerg could, because you know flying and shit.


I noticed in TB's vid that one of the outlaying capture points had one as well. I don't know if it just sent you into the base of if you could jump from the base to that outlaying post.

He said it let to some kind of fortification right next to the capture point, not the base.

[MrKWalmsley]

How do either of you know this will be possible?

Based on the visual evidence we have so far. The only thing that could really contradict what we are saying is a cooldown on the jump pad, and that seems very unlikely. In fact my idea only requires a second or less of a cooldown to be valid. It is not that likely that it would be designed with a cooldown because when you have hundreds of people trying to use the device what will end up happening is a massive cluster and scramble of troops pushing each other off the edge of the towers and those of a touchy nature could easily be mentally pushed to team killing if he/she keeps getting pushed to the back of the line.

It would not be a useful quick travel device if it only allowed you to jump one person it at a time, as it would slow down a large unit just as much as having to walk the distance would be.

Plus I'm guessing that there would be some easily identifiable way to determine when a cooldown has ended, which would most probably be the colour of the energy itself (which though the most probably is highly unlikely due to faction specific colours making it difficult to choose alternatives colours to indicate it recharging) and in the video it seems no such overt change happened to the jump pad as he jumped into it and as it passes out of view.

[Cirdan]

I don't really think jump pads are as big of a problem as you guys are making it out to be. From what I have seen, they seem to be limited to jumping from tower to tower, this means does not mean you can "instantly get to any side of the base immediately" you still have plenty of travel time jumping between towers to get to where you want. Also, the pads are really only helpful for people who are already on the towers. For everyone else who is on the ground, I would rather flank the enemy where they aren't expecting me than jump from massive towers where the snipers are watching

[Vancha]

I'd wager a guess and say simple deduction?

Say 70 people defend the east portion, enemy flanks round to west portion, command says "defend west", cue 70 people mancannoning across the base faster than a normal footzerg could, because you know flying and shit.
Did you mean simple speculation? I think you meant simple speculation.

What if the pads are N/S/E/W and the capture points are NE/NW/SE/SW? What if there's an X second recharge timer for them? What if capturing the towers outside disables them? What if they can be destroyed? That's just off the top of my head.

[Raymac]

I don't really think jump pads are as big of a problem as you guys are making it out to be. From what I have seen, they seem to be limited to jumping from tower to tower, this means does not mean you can "instantly get to any side of the base immediately" you still have plenty of travel time jumping between towers to get to where you want. Also, the pads are really only helpful for people who are already on the towers. For everyone else who is on the ground, I would rather flank the enemy where they aren't expecting me than jump from massive towers where the snipers are watching

^THIS

[captainkapautz]

Did you mean simple speculation? I think you meant simple speculation.

Same thing really.

What if the pads are N/S/E/W and the capture points are NE/NW/SE/SW?

Then you jump to the one closest to the capturepoint and go from there.

What if there's an X second recharge timer for them?

Makes 'em kinda useless for there actual purpose, as was mentioned before.

What if capturing the towers outside disables them?

Okay, that is really grasping for reasons now.
Why would towers outside a base influence the basesystems, unless you meant specific objectives outside and not just a run of the mill tower.

What if they can be destroyed?

If the enemy is already inside the base than the point that was made is moot anyway.

[Squiffy]

I'm in 2 minds atm. I don't fancy players flying in arcs across a battlefield but I can see that enabling the base defenders to get about quickly is maybe necessary to the game. My only concern is that they are not only contained to the battlements. Totalbiscuits movie shows a jumped to launch players up a tower at 18:48 of an outbuilding so soldiers will be jumping all around you in the middle of a battle, which will be overkill in my mind

[Mechzz]

Every base having pads would be too much of a good thing imo.

If a small number of bases have pads, or some other mechanism to make it easier to move about inside (and maybe in the direct vicinity of) the base then it will add variety to the landscape we are fighting on.

Have them in every base and I feel it will become one of things that eventually you've seen enough of.

Mixing bases with pads up with "traditional" walled bases (particularly the massive walls and courtyards we saw early on) could be a winning combination.

[Snowfake]

I am for the reason why they are needed but I really dont like them. Its much too Quake for IMO for planetside. Seriously people flying through the air shooting at each other..... by far the worst thing I have seen in the game thus far.

I would have no problem with a instant travel telepad

[Talek Krell]

I don't really think jump pads are as big of a problem as you guys are making it out to be. From what I have seen, they seem to be limited to jumping from tower to tower, this means does not mean you can "instantly get to any side of the base immediately" you still have plenty of travel time jumping between towers to get to where you want.We are probably overstating the effect somewhat, but I think you're dismissing the issue too quickly.

Allowing the defenders to move as quickly as TB's video suggests would mean that the time it takes them to reinforce a given point on the "wall" is reduced to a fraction of what it would otherwise be. The apparent fact that towers are the primary defensive points on the wall (they have all the turrets, and given the handcrafted bases they're likely to be precisely where they make the most sense) just serves to reduce this further. Flanking an enemy base to attack from an unexpected direction already takes a relatively large amount of time and effort. What's the point if the defending force can shift people to the new front within a minute or two?

In short I'm concerned about the chilling effect this may have on clever strategic maneuvers.

[SKYeXile]

lol not enough off a tactical shooter clone for you guys?


Jump pads are awesome, loved them the second i saw them, good to see they're not making a total BF clone and at least steal some ideas from better games.

[LancerNC]

lol not enough off a tactical shooter clone for you guys?


Jump pads are awesome, loved them the second i saw them, good to see they're not making a total BF clone and at least steal some ideas from better games.

I agree. They look like a lot of fun. I think this will make the gameplay a lot more fun and hopefully appeal to a larger fps crowd than just the tactical shooter folks

[Sledgecrushr]

Ive played ARMA2, and its ok. Do I want PS2 to play like that? Hell no. I like the jump pads.

[Khorneholio]

lol not enough off a tactical shooter clone for you guys?


Jump pads are awesome, loved them the second i saw them, good to see they're not making a total BF clone and at least steal some ideas from better games.

Did you really just call a game (BF) where you can jump out of a jet at full speed, then while flying through the air at terminal velocity hop safely into a friendly chopper as you fall through it's main rotor... a tactical shooter?? It's an arcade shooter with a fair attempt at a more realistic ballistics system.

Do you consider COD, a game where every weapon shoots invisible lasers, a tactical shooter as well? ... probably. :rolleyes:

There are already so many games out there that take place in a Wile E. Coyote styled setting, and so few that make the vaguest effort at realism. Planetside 2 doesn't need to be another "me to" arcade shooter.

[Stardouser]

Did you really just call a game (BF) where you can jump out of a jet at full speed, then while flying through the air at terminal velocity hop safely into a friendly chopper as you fall through it's main rotor... a tactical shooter?? It's an arcade shooter with a fair attempt at a more realistic ballistics system.

Do you consider COD, a game where every weapon shoots invisible lasers, a tactical shooter as well? ... probably. :rolleyes:

There are already so many games out there that take place in a Wile E. Coyote styled setting, and so few that make the vaguest effort at realism. Planetside 2 doesn't need to be another "me to" arcade shooter.

Interesting, you gave me a thought. People want you have to cert just to bail from an aircraft(though this is more because they want to create a duel to the death air combat sim than anything else), yet have jump pads. Regardless of the motivations, those are polar opposites. And not giving infantry convenient parachutes and instead forcing them to deploy from Galaxies from drop pods is also polar opposite of jump pads. Same for squad spawning, that shouldn't use drop pods either, you should simply spawn on ground level next to your squad leader.

As for Battlefield, bailing out of choppers and jets at full speed is kind of necessary(and it's necessary for Planetside as well), but that doesn't mean the arcadeness needs to go further than that, and jump pads would definitely take it further than that.

[Sledgecrushr]

Interesting, you gave me a thought. People want you have to cert just to bail from an aircraft(though this is more because they want to create a duel to the death air combat sim than anything else), yet have jump pads. Regardless of the motivations, those are polar opposites. And not giving infantry convenient parachutes and instead forcing them to deploy from Galaxies from drop pods is also polar opposite of jump pads. Same for squad spawning, that shouldn't use drop pods either, you should simply spawn on ground level next to your squad leader.

As for Battlefield, bailing out of choppers and jets at full speed is kind of necessary(and it's necessary for Planetside as well), but that doesn't mean the arcadeness needs to go further than that, and jump pads would definitely take it further than that.

Excellent point, I also think you should get xp for a vehicle kill while it is in service regardless if the crew is in it or just bailed out to save there skins. Destroying there vehicle is a win.

[Stardouser]

Excellent point, I also think you should get xp for a vehicle kill while it is in service regardless if the crew is in it or just bailed out to save there skins. Destroying there vehicle is a win.

Indeed, and hopefully, when SOE talks about tracking so many stats, vehicle kills can be tracked independently of killing the driver/pilot. Perhaps they could even track a "forced bails" stat; that would help take care of some of this.

[SKYeXile]

Did you really just call a game (BF) where you can jump out of a jet at full speed, then while flying through the air at terminal velocity hop safely into a friendly chopper as you fall through it's main rotor... a tactical shooter?? It's an arcade shooter with a fair attempt at a more realistic ballistics system.

Do you consider COD, a game where every weapon shoots invisible lasers, a tactical shooter as well? ... probably. :rolleyes:

There are already so many games out there that take place in a Wile E. Coyote styled setting, and so few that make the vaguest effort at realism. Planetside 2 doesn't need to be another "me to" arcade shooter.

Planetside needs to be another arcade shooter or it will fail like all games stuck trying to stick to an IP or realism, it just doesn't work in video games. they need to be free to play and tweak whatever they like, physics can go fuck itself.

[Senyu]

Perhaps if the discussion went into more detail of the jumpads mechanics it will be more approved. Such as....


Jumpads automatically in the base or require upgrade/resources/engineers?
Can they be disabled? Loss of power or through hacking?
Can hacking haywire it the launch the faction owned base personel to their
death in another direction?
During base captures does it have a set time before becoming active for the new controlling faction?
Can they be modified/augmented in any way?
Do they require upkeep or maintenance from Engineers?
If destroyable how would it be reparaied?


If their rules and mechanics are hammered out I think they could be more approved of.

[MrKWalmsley]

Planetside needs to be another arcade shooter or it will fail like all games stuck trying to stick to an IP or realism, it just doesn't work in video games. they need to be free to play and tweak whatever they like, physics can go fuck itself.

Ah good, so you have no interest in realistic physics eh? Would you like planet-side to have 50 ft jump heights? Would you like tanks to blow up when they hit light assaults and not let the light assaults take damage? Perhaps you would like to be able to move in every single direction as an infantryman, and have upside down bases? What about instead of having bullet drop you have bullet rise, and it goes from 180 to 90 degrees once it has travelled a metre? How about it rains bullets? How about instant death if you fall one metre but absolutely no damage is incurred if you fall from a height above 5 metres? Or are you just selective with what physics you want?

Planetside is meant to be breaking conventions with its main mechanic, and that is a mechanic only really round in Planetside 1. So I do not think this game has to be another arcade shooter when it is already being something out of the norm. Stop trying to turn this game into every other popular shooter out there. If you want them, go to them, you have MANY to choose from.

EDIT:
Also check my comment in the Fall Damage topic, that explains far more than this comment does.

[Stardouser]

I think that it comes down to one thing: If jump pads can't be disabled they are overpowered but if they can be disabled, they will be, and they will be useless, as, for the most part, no one will know that they are disabled until they are needed badly, and then you die or have to stop and repair it before you can go repair the turret on the other tower.

Best just to not have them. And like I say, having seen an overhead of Zurvan Amp Station, just sprint, that's what it's there for.

[Marinealver]

If it is supposed to be some type of launch pad for LAssault?

I mean this isn't quake and also jump pads would not be good for base defence. If anything it would be use by invaders to get on the roof easier.

Nope, we don't need gravity jumps. We already got jetpacks and air transport. Laders mabey for the foot slogers to climb up and down walls.

Jump pads should be restricted to access for roof. Don't try and make them as a fast transport around cortyard.

[Xyntech]

Ah good, so you have no interest in realistic physics eh? Would you like planet-side to have 50 ft jump heights? Would you like tanks to blow up when they hit light assaults and not let the light assaults take damage? Perhaps you would like to be able to move in every single direction as an infantryman, and have upside down bases? What about instead of having bullet drop you have bullet rise, and it goes from 180 to 90 degrees once it has travelled a metre? How about it rains bullets? How about instant death if you fall one metre but absolutely no damage is incurred if you fall from a height above 5 metres? Or are you just selective with what physics you want?

Planetside is meant to be breaking conventions with its main mechanic, and that is a mechanic only really round in Planetside 1. So I do not think this game has to be another arcade shooter when it is already being something out of the norm. Stop trying to turn this game into every other popular shooter out there. If you want them, go to them, you have MANY to choose from.

So many things are wrong with this post.

Stop with the strawman arguments. Everyone is selective with what physics they want to keep, in arcade games and simulators alike.

Also, how do you define "arcade shooter?" Because Quake and Unreal Tournament are currently a dying breed.

[ringring]

If it is supposed to be some type of launch pad for LAssault?

I mean this isn't quake and also jump pads would not be good for base defence. If anything it would be use by invaders to get on the roof easier.

Nope, we don't need gravity jumps. We already got jetpacks and air transport. Laders mabey for the foot slogers to climb up and down walls.

Jump pads should be restricted to access for roof. Don't try and make them as a fast transport around cortyard.

There are shown .... a elevator system for access to higher levels and also the catapults to fire people from one wall tower to another. No other catapults are shown and there is nothing known about making fast transport around the courtyard, just from one tower to another.

If the devs think that some kind of fast transport system is necessary I believe them. We had already heard that there was a transporter system to transport people from ground level to the Bio Dome - I can understand why that is necessary.

[MrKWalmsley]

So many things are wrong with this post.

Stop with the strawman arguments. Everyone is selective with what physics they want to keep, in arcade games and simulators alike.

Also, how do you define "arcade shooter?" Because Quake and Unreal Tournament are currently a dying breed.

Everyone is selective? I want the physics to be as realistic as physically possible. That is being as general as you can get. Although I am mentally capable of putting up with necessary non-realistic physics, so long as it is necessary, and in my opinion, jump pads are not a necessity.

Besides, that whole physics rant was not supposed to be an argument, it was just mocking the fact that he said:
"physics can go fuck itself."
So if anything, you should have said:
"Stop with the appeal to ridicule"

But since I was not trying to debase his argument (since "physics can go fuck itself" isn't an argument) it cannot even be called that.

Plus I did not define arcade shooter, I was basing that off of SKYeXile's seeming acceptance of the definition being CoD, and BF, which equally have ridiculous physics (as was mentioned in the comment he was replying to). Whatever you want to call a game that throw physics out of the window to the point where it is noticeable to your average person, throw that in its place. Halo is the most prominent of which that I would bring up.

[Vash02]

Planetside needs to be another arcade shooter or it will fail like all games stuck trying to stick to an IP or realism, it just doesn't work in video games. they need to be free to play and tweak whatever they like, physics can go fuck itself.

no, having the one thing that is completely out of place ruins a game. You don't have to have things that are not 'fun' but at least have something that fits in with the style of Planetside. Base technology should be something human, not alien.

I'm in favour of having a platform with a wire attached to the other tower for people zip across on. If you get shot then there's a chance of being knocked off the wire.

[Immigrant]

Planetside needs to be another arcade shooter or it will fail like all games stuck trying to stick to an IP or realism, it just doesn't work in video games. they need to be free to play and tweak whatever they like, physics can go fuck itself.

:rofl: Sorry I just don't see that. Why make arcade shooter with global tactics PS2 will involve (various bases, resources types, hexes etc.)? I understand the game needs to be sped up and modernized in comparison to PS1 (which by the way didn't fail from what I've heard) however SOE will have to make a choice eventually if they are going for "Tribes on one enormous map thing" or are they going to offer a different more realistic and tactical experience (I'm not talking about simulation-grade realism here, just to make that clear, I can do without bullet drop and similar realism stuff).

Don't get me wrong Tribes is a great and quite enjoyable f2p game however simply expanding a map and adding more vehicle types on top of that won't offer essentially nothing new or even make it more fun. Tribes and other similar arcadish games are meant to be played individually with some loose level of cooperation (making game too fast and adding arcadish elements like jumps pads, minimal fall damage etc inevitably strengthens the value of individual player much further according to his button mashing skills) and I thought PS2 was going for tactical gameplay that absolutely requires cooperation between players. Two concepts are mutually exclusive and SOE (dev team) will have to take one way or the other and I believe they were promising the latter from the start.

[Kipper]

For me, slow the game down a bit as the above post says - and introduce more tactical decision making.

If everyone is whizzing about the place, for me - it doesn't help to define a clear line of attack/defense "they're coming from here-->", its just more of a random free for all where anyone could be anywhere.

By all means, give people a means to get around a little quicker - thats what LA jump packs are for, or moving walkways, or despawn/respawn facilities, teleporters etc.

Even an engineer deployable teleport would be preferable.

The more I think about it, the more I really dislike jump pads as a solution.

[Sledgecrushr]

Everyone is selective? I want the physics to be as realistic as physically possible. That is being as general as you can get. Although I am mentally capable of putting up with necessary non-realistic physics, so long as it is necessary, and in my opinion, jump pads are not a necessity.

Besides, that whole physics rant was not supposed to be an argument, it was just mocking the fact that he said:
"physics can go fuck itself."
So if anything, you should have said:
"Stop with the appeal to ridicule"

But since I was not trying to debase his argument (since "physics can go fuck itself" isn't an argument) it cannot even be called that.

Plus I did not define arcade shooter, I was basing that off of SKYeXile's seeming acceptance of the definition being CoD, and BF, which equally have ridiculous physics (as was mentioned in the comment he was replying to). Whatever you want to call a game that throw physics out of the window to the point where it is noticeable to your average person, throw that in its place. Halo is the most prominent of which that I would bring up.

So I can understand the some of the root issue people have with jump pads. They really havent been explained in a way that sounds like it could happen in real life. This really is the best part of sci fi right here. Jump pads are really repulsor fields built right into the tower. Working through nanite recognition the repuslor field will launch you towards the next tower where that next towers repulsor field will catch you and allow you to land with no damage done. Copyright nanite systems

[MrKWalmsley]

So I can understand the some of the root issue people have with jump pads. They really havent been explained in a way that sounds like it could happen in real life. This really is the best part of sci fi right here. Jump pads are really repulsor fields built right into the tower. Working through nanite recognition the repuslor field will launch you towards the next tower where that next towers repulsor field will catch you and allow you to land with no damage done. Copyright nanite systems

Oh don't worry my opposition to jump pads are not solely based on the setting, and in fact I have never questioned the physics of Jump pads, I was just responding just to his last line separate from this issue.

My real contentions with it is its mechanics, more specifically the way it will impact on gameplay, and that in its current state and likelyness will give rise to un-organised rabbles lead by incompetent commanders and in return suppresses organised team working units lead by tactical thinkers by nullifying even simple tactics. Like distracting the enemy with a smaller force, then once the enemies have moved to one side of the base attack with your main force from another direction and overrun the enemy base before they can get to defensive positions.

I explained this far better on page 15.

[Sinx]

Just my two pence worth.

I understand the game mechanic goal for them (large bases, getting people to combat quicker etc.) but for me they feel of out of place and might break my emmersion.

Teleporters sit better with me.

[Sledgecrushr]

Teleporters are too safe. These jump pads literally only propel you 100 feet.

[Mechzz]

Teleporters are too safe. These jump pads literally only propel you 100 feet.

Teleporters are safe up to the point where you spawn (as VS) into the muzzles of 10 camping jackhammers ?

And jump pads could be thought of as XP boosters for snipers?

[Stardouser]

Teleporters are too safe. These jump pads literally only propel you 100 feet.

Fast travel shouldn't exist really, but such as it is that it will be forced upon us, it's not about safe or not safe, it has a function and that's that, so honestly, too safe isn't really possible. Neither is too dangerous.

Although, now that you think about it, they aren't THAT safe. Send in some cloakers to set up ambush sites to cut off teleport reinforcements.

[Ceska]

They should afford more respawn options before implement jumpad as fast travel mean

[MrBloodworth]

They should afford more respawn options before implement jumpad as fast travel mean


Why should I have to die to get to the other side of the base?

Not arguing in favor of jump-pads, but this seems like a very odd solution.

[Stardouser]

Why should I have to die to get to the other side of the base?

Not arguing in favor of jump-pads, but this seems like a very odd solution.

Well, the thing is - if you run all the way across the base to get where you are going and die, then you will be able to respawn closer. The only situation that doesn't address is engineers repairing, everyone else it takes care of.

Not that this is a real problem, after seeing the base from overhead, sprint should get the job done fine.

[MrBloodworth]

It seems to me with some of the suggestions here, that the Session based thinking of Death = Convenient travel system is creeping in.

[Stardouser]

It seems to me with some of the suggestions here, that the Session based thinking of Death = Convenient travel system is creeping in.

No, it's not that - it's that your initial run to an area is hardly a burden. After that, you will die anyway unless by pure chance your team has wiped out the other team, so it's not that bad. Having to run a long distance after every death is a burden, your initial run should not be thought of that way.

[MrBloodworth]

Having to run a long distance after every death is a burden

That's why god made AMS's and towers. You know, I dislike this idea that people should always have access and short walks to get back to front lines ( Spawn on SL is a great example ). Logistics and denial of logistics is part of war. If you have to make a "long walk" your support structure needs a talking to, or you have lost already.



.

[ringring]

That's why god made AMS's and towers. You know, I dislike this idea that people should always have access and short walks to get back to front lines ( Spawn on SL is a great example ). Logistics and denial of logistics is part of war. If you have to make a "long walk" your support structure needs a talking to, or you have lost already.



.

And this is why Figgy and myself were arguing for AMSES several months ago. However I understood that bases contained several spawnrooms that were seperately capturable.

[Stardouser]

That's why god made AMS's and towers. You know, I dislike this idea that people should always have access and short walks to get back to front lines ( Spawn on SL is a great example ). Logistics and denial of logistics is part of war. If you have to make a "long walk" your support structure needs a talking to, or you have lost already.



.

I don't agree(mostly), because I think squad spawn is needed, BUT : however bad it is for you with squad spawning, jump pads increase the pace even more. There has to be a limit somewhere to the things done to increase the pace but thus far I think they haven't found it or restrained themselves...