Base Design Variety?

[Mechzz]

I confess to being a bit thrown by how open the current base design is compared to the first base we saw (see below). I also remember when jet packs were revealed thinking "wow! I would love to assault a base with those tall walls using these things!"

The latest base design, seen in TB's video, is entirely lacking in defensive walls. the big tower structures from the picture below have been preserved but the base itself is entirely open and the walls have effectively been replaced by jump pads.


The little boy in me loves the idea of attacking/defending an updated medieval castle with all the defenders lining the walls and getting gradually pushed back to the inner citadel. I would be disappointed to not have that in the game.

I'm pretty much on the fence about jump pads, at least as a one-off on a continent, but I'm interested to see how wide the spread of opinion is on the base design so I've tried to frame some questions to get a sense of the thinking.

I'm going to assume that no towers have walls, so my focus is on understanding what we want from the big bases (bio, tech and amp).

It also seems the new bases are big enough to need a lift to get upstairs, so I'll include that in the "with walls" option.


http://www.planetside-universe.com/media/album/ddu5pvtd3g/basescreenshot_trayoct.jpg

[Nick]

I think bases should have complete walls instead of jump pads. I think the main idea with jump pads is that players get back to the fight fast. There are already so many new mechanics that I think it's a bit overkill, especially considering there are several spawn points now in addition to the main spawn room. As long as these spawn points are dispersed appropriately, getting back to base defense will be quite quick. Also, it will reward defending your base's capture points.

When have you ever, while playing Planetside 1, thought running down the battlements took too long? I really think that jump pads will ruin the immersion of being in a massive siege.

I'm also concerned that indoor combat takes place in a series of small rooms now. Whatever happened to the Planetside 1 base design with massive interior areas underground? I think they should be there too. Who would build a base without some kind of underground bunker in it when your enemy has aircraft like Liberators and Galaxy Gunships? Please give us the best of both worlds. Fun interior and exterior base gameplay.

[Toppopia]

I would like to expect all bases to have walls? Because who designs a base with no walls? Thats like asking someone with the plague to give you a hug while you have open flesh wounds.

I hope that base is only like that for testing purposes or is a one off design, because i agree that defenders should be on an outer wall and slowly be pushed back to more walls and eventually into the massive buildings themselves with wide open areas and small areas, but it looks like defending is just wait till enemy walks through big gaping hole then shoot at them. Where is the defensive advantage?

[Immigrant]

Interesting topic. I would definitely love to see base walls in this game. Perhaps the base we saw is the lowest level base and hopefully when players invest some resources in it walls will get erected and defenses bolstered further. So I would like to see both walls and teleportations between distant friendly controlled parts of the base (no jump pads though - air should be reserved for aircrafts, LAs and local avian fauna imo).

Also when it comes to bases I would like to see destroyable base assets beside various turrets like thin walls so the attackers can punch through unguarded part of the wall with C4 or when tank shoots a hole through the wall.

[ringring]

I assume the DEVS first choice/thought was that bases would have walls.

Their second thought was that walls make base offence too difficult and defence too easy and removed them.

Then they thought that it was too hard to transit from one corner tower to another and added in the flippers.

On point 1 and I ambivalent and will trust the DEVS.

On point 2 I will trust the DEVS thinking as far as transit time is concerned my only quibble is:
a) the flippers look stupid
b) I don't want a fight to be like Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon with people flying though the air in an entirely unbelievable way. I accept we're going to have jet-pack troops, but even those must have cooldowns so that they aren't abused.


(ps regarding 'unbelievable' I know there has to be some suspension of disbelief but you can't push it too far)

[SuperMorto]

they could just put in smaller walls. I must say I like the idea of a full wall around my base! :)

[Figment]

Star fortress. We need some. Napoleon era got it right!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8c/Naarden_kl.JPG
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naarden

Water, firing lines, fortifications, crossfires, you name it.

Taking this fort would be an epic siege and defense.

[Mechzz]

I assume the DEVS first choice/thought was that bases would have walls.

Their second thought was that walls make base offence too difficult and defence too easy and removed them.

Then they thought that it was too hard to transit from one corner tower to another and added in the flippers.


That's interesting Ringring, I've had similar thoughts since I posted this. Imagine a series of "creative design" meetings where Higby, T-ray and the crew are reviewing the game and setting direction:

Day 1.
Higby: "Let's have jetpacks"
T-Ray: "OK, but we should take it off the VS Max to be fair"

Day 100:
Higby: "Having jetpacks makes it too easy to get over those huge walls we designed"
T-Ray "OK, so let's remove the walls and open things up"

Day 200:
Higby: "Well, it's more open, so these huge bases we built, I can't get from one side to the other before you've capped a control point"
T-Ray: "OK, let's add jump pads to speed it up"

So I think it's a logical progression from jetpacks to jump pads, through a series of decisions that went further from the starting point each time.

Interesting to see that no-one who has bothered to vote is in favour of only open designs but that most of us are open-minded enough to want at least one base that is open.

[LordReaver]

I don't think you really need walls, so much as potentially strong defensive positions.

[vampyro]

There should be walls around some bases deep into each factions territory. Close to their safe zone "warp gate" otherwise how the heck will they dig themselves out. In the middle of the cont is where they could put more open bases.

The jump pad doesnt belong in ps, just make routers built into each base that can be repaired or destroyed, or give that feature to a specific class. No need to make a router a vehicle.

[IMMentat]

I'm all in for diversity, some traditional PS1 bases like the amp station design plus some more open bases where the bse raised up off the ground and surrounded by killzones created by armed towers will keep things interesting.
I can't wait ot see some of the layouts and start making plans for attack and defence.

I will say that I hope there is some variety in how to cap a base. LLU runs were a but underwhelming in PS1 but at least an effort was made.

[Mechzz]

I like the idea of bases closer to a foothold having more defences and those in the central area of the continent having lighter defences.

Oh, and here's a thought. The original base has a big wide parapet. Wide enough to get at least a quad bike on.......

Oh, we need walls like that on at least some bases, please!

[Gonefshn]

Definitely walls on some bases! The old Planetside base walls were so much fun. And with this being a sequel there needs to be at least one base type that reminds us of that old style.

I'm all for changing it up though and definitely think that we should also have new bases without walls and all sorts of designs that are incredibly different from one another. They are doing a fantastic job of this already, I just hope some have the old school walls and courtyard.

[Graywolves]

I would really like to have a variety.


But with the jumppads I can't helpt but wonder if the spaces in between is actually useful and if this will lead to 20 people sitting on each platform. I'd prefer areas be made useful rather than skipped.

[Baneblade]

When I hear the words 'base design variety', I don't think about whether it has walls or not. It is all about layout.

[capiqu]

I cant see why such an advance society with Nano technology would have bases with incomplete walls. I think the bases should have the wall all around. If base offense is the concern, the fact that the first base design has 5 gates as opposed to PS1 2 gates should help the offense. If anything I just don't see walls around the Bio Labs. Those things are so tall that I imagine walls around them would not look right. As far as the jump pads, those bases are huge. I'm gonna want a fast way of getting around in those bases while waiting for surge, if there will be surge, to kick in.

[Figment]

Btw, didn't the original base designs for ps1 lack walls altogether?

[Mechzz]

Btw, didn't the original base designs for ps1 lack walls altogether?

Hmm. I didn't play early enough to see those models. The ones that are in the game now lent themselves to good gameplay when pops were high though, didn't they?

[Gonefshn]

Btw, didn't the original base designs for ps1 lack walls altogether?

Are you talking about these???

http://files.g4tv.com/ImageDb3/259661_S/Earthrise-First-Up-In-A-String-of-Sci-Fi-MMO-Games-On-The-Horizon.jpg

http://www.planetside-universe.com/media/album/icrxu8yox2/ancient_soldier10.jpg

from the early early alpha of the first game or Just asking if bases had walls in general. Because in the actual Game EVERY base had walls.

[Baneblade]

Btw, didn't the original base designs for ps1 lack walls altogether?

Hmm. I didn't play early enough to see those models. The ones that are in the game now lent themselves to good gameplay when pops were high though, didn't they?

Alpha

[Stardouser]

Hmmmm.

As for not having any circumvallation walls...what if there were deployable shield generators that you could use, not to make a dome shaped shield, but that you could set up between two buildings in order to create a shield running between the two?

Of course that doesn't solve the problem of no base walls that you can run on that provide an excuse for jump pads.

[Gonefshn]

there's a lot more than just those towers to stand on in the new bases, they are multilevel ed and have tons of places to defend from. I don't think it will be so bad. A traditional walled in base though would be awesome just because it would mean different tactics and remind us of the days of old.

[Stardouser]

Ooh...I just had a thought.

You know in Portal how there are those energy/light projections that work as platforms you can stand on? Would that be a fit for Planetside?

[Thomas]

Ooh...I just had a thought.

You know in Portal how there are those energy/light projections that work as platforms you can stand on? Would that be a fit for Planetside?

I wouldn't mind seeing something like that but they wouldn't replace the jump pad's at any rate.

I'm pretty sure there are quite a few bases with walls, I don't think a base not having walls is a huge problem and to be honest it looks like the game is designed that way anymore, in TB's video we saw quite a few pieces of the base were quite far out so having a wall would be more disruptive to defensive than helpful.

Also having no walls allows for more unique base design as you can give the surrounding terrain more of a flow instead of being stopped because a wall has to be there.

There will be walls and there won't be walls. I'm sure we will all enjoy both designs equally.

[capiqu]

Are you talking about these???

http://files.g4tv.com/ImageDb3/259661_S/Earthrise-First-Up-In-A-String-of-Sci-Fi-MMO-Games-On-The-Horizon.jpg

http://www.planetside-universe.com/media/album/icrxu8yox2/ancient_soldier10.jpg

from the early early alpha of the first game or Just asking if bases had walls in general. Because in the actual Game EVERY base had walls.


Wow, big difference from what they eventually ended up with. I didn't play the beta , I started playing in July 2003.

[Hamma]

That look never made it into beta hehe - thats like ultra-early screenshots

[Mechzz]

Thanks for dropping by Hamma. Could you look out for/ask about some bases having walls or maybe some other features peeps have mentioned?

There seems to be a strong leaning towards some bases having walls and not having all bases wide open.

Thanks!

[The Kush]

No point in defending a wall without perimeters. The bases (at least half) need walls to enclose the entire base. PS1 courtyards were a huge aspect to the game.

[Bags]

I tweeted Higby a while ago about the lack of complete walls, and he said "Variety is cool too!".

[Xyntech]

I tweeted Higby a while ago about the lack of complete walls, and he said "Variety is cool too!".

Yeah I take that to mean we will have some bases with walls and some without.

We shall see.

[Red Beard]

Hmmmm.

As for not having any circumvallation walls...what if there were deployable shield generators that you could use, not to make a dome shaped shield, but that you could set up between two buildings in order to create a shield running between the two?

Of course that doesn't solve the problem of no base walls that you can run on that provide an excuse for jump pads.

I like this idea in general for a strategic deployable.

[mynameismud]

honestly im more concerned by the lack of interiors than the lack of walls. Every base seems like a real big main building with nothing connected, and a bunch of other smaller buildings not connected.

In planetside one you would fight for hours inside a base, it was where infantry fights were the most fun, you would fight for just the chance to see daylight. Those were my favorites moments of PS1, epic hour long base defenses only to have the perfect OS strike to clear the courtyard long enough for the last ditch ANT run to make it through their offensives. That was all good and fun, i can move on and adapt.

But with the bases ive seen, when your base is getting hella jacked by enemy aircraft what can you do? AA works a bit, but in the first one that shit wasnt the answer forever. I remember tons of fights where our empire lost the vehicle fight and lost the courtyard, if you even stepped by a door outside you were spammed by 4 reavers. You gathered forces dug in deep, and waited for an opportunistic time to push out.

What will happen when you lose the vehicle fight and every open door only leads to outside and is having rockets spammed in them? I know they wanted to change bases up to have less bottlenecks, but having majority of the bases be open and outside makes me think ima get raped by air every time i defend, AA dont work if you cant step outside without getting blown up in the first place

[Toppopia]

honestly im more concerned by the lack of interiors than the lack of walls. Every base seems like a real big main building with nothing connected, and a bunch of other smaller buildings not connected.

In planetside one you would fight for hours inside a base, it was where infantry fights were the most fun, you would fight for just the chance to see daylight. Those were my favorites moments of PS1, epic hour long base defenses only to have the perfect OS strike to clear the courtyard long enough for the last ditch ANT run to make it through their offensives. That was all good and fun, i can move on and adapt.

But with the bases ive seen, when your base is getting hella jacked by enemy aircraft what can you do? AA works a bit, but in the first one that shit wasnt the answer forever. I remember tons of fights where our empire lost the vehicle fight and lost the courtyard, if you even stepped by a door outside you were spammed by 4 reavers. You gathered forces dug in deep, and waited for an opportunistic time to push out.

What will happen when you lose the vehicle fight and every open door only leads to outside and is having rockets spammed in them? I know they wanted to change bases up to have less bottlenecks, but having majority of the bases be open and outside makes me think ima get raped by air every time i defend, AA dont work if you cant step outside without getting blown up in the first place

If we are lucky then that is only 1 base design, and hopefully others are almost all infantry only or fully walled so not even air vehicles can get in etc, we will have to wait and see what the designs are.

[capiqu]

You will have tanks camping exits and Reavers camping Jump Pad exits as well once you lose the court yard. That's why i would rather have fully enclosed bases. Hell if the point is that walls give the offense too much of a disadvantage , maybe a fully enclosed base with 5 gates rather than the PS1 2 gate walled base would help.

[Baneblade]

I get the impression that each base is more like a multiple structure complex that you take in segments. So more like how PS 1 would have been if each base had instead been a Tech Plant, Bio Lab, Amp Station, and Interlink surrounding and connected to a Dropship Center.

[Mechzz]

I get the impression that each base is more like a multiple structure complex that you take in segments. So more like how PS 1 would have been if each base had instead been a Tech Plant, Bio Lab, Amp Station, and Interlink surrounding and connected to a Dropship Center.

Yeah, Higby spoke in those terms early on about how base caps would work.

It's good to see how open-minded peeps have been on the poll. The "no-change" group is there, and that's cool, but there's a large majority who want to see variety in the base design. So if that means a few bases are a bit "wacky", well us Vanu have our say in town planning on Auraxis too!

I have to say though, that the enormous battle you would have to take the base in the OP would be, for me, a defining moment of PS2 compared to PS1 :groovy::groovy::groovy:

[Toppopia]

Yeah, Higby spoke in those terms early on about how base caps would work.

It's good to see how open-minded peeps have been on the poll. The "no-change" group is there, and that's cool, but there's a large majority who want to see variety in the base design. So if that means a few bases are a bit "wacky", well us Vanu have our say in town planning on Auraxis too!

I have to say though, that the enormous battle you would have to take the base in the OP would be, for me, a defining moment of PS2 compared to PS1 :groovy::groovy::groovy:

These results show that everyone wants walls or some kind in bases, so as long as instead of walls maybe have some natural defence feature that still makes it hard to attack, like cliffs or something. Imagine rock climbing gear and a small advanced force slowly climbing a cliff side. Amazing :eek:

[Mechzz]

I just noticed in TB's night ops vid at 14:00 that the wreck of a lightning ends up between 2 towers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6HgC6Exs0U

If the wrecks lasted long enough, should the defenders get the ability to move them into position as cover?

[Toppopia]

I just noticed in TB's night ops vid at 14:00 that the wreck of a lightning ends up between 2 towers.



If the wrecks lasted long enough, should the defenders get the ability to move them into position as cover?

That would be amazing, i'm hoping engineers can place deployable cover so that we won't need wreckage or else you would have to destroy friendly tanks to get cover early on the fight.

[Mechzz]

That would be amazing, i'm hoping engineers can place deployable cover so that we won't need wreckage or else you would have to destroy friendly tanks to get cover early on the fight.

No, no, I love the idea of deployable cover as well, especially something on the scale of a base wall. Should maybe take 2-3 engies working together to put up a full curtain wall, but that would be a great addition to the game.

But I also like the idea of filling in the gaps with some wrecks at least in the early stage of a base defence. Practicality depends on how long the wrecks stay in the environment for, I guess. Less than pleasant to see your base "walls" go ***puff*** in a haze of purple smoke after 5-10 mins lol

[RSphil]

id like to see all sorts of bases. i like variety as this makes attacking the bases different alot of the time. plus we could have bases in different states of build.

will be interesting to see what the final bases will look like but i hope there will be alot of variety

[IMMentat]

In terms of interior fight I think the biolab will provide.
It's a giant mushroom base standing on support pillars.
So no airchav will be spamming the troops, tanks have certain bottlenecks that cannot pass (lookup the Higby 45 minute demo)

Straight up coridoor fights are mostly boring so I can live without much of that.

handy links
PlanetSide-2-tech-plant-concept (http://www.planetside2forum.com/threads/119-PlanetSide-2-tech-plant-concept)
image-of-amp-station (http://www.planetside2forum.com/threads/122-PlanetSide-2-full-image-of-amp-station)
Biolab-exterior (http://www.planetside2forum.com/threads/124-PlanetSide-2-Biolab-exterior)
Sadly the biolab pic is one fo the worst but it gives a general impression.
The Higby video shows more
#edit# the first few minutes they start by defending a biolab1:05, later an amp stationgets attacked, 14:10 gives decent views.
45 min GDC video

Highly scripted encounters, but also well managed. It shows a full attack on an amp station spawnpoint.

p.s.
about time I used some source links with my posts. :cool:

[Mastachief]

Personally to me a base to be called a base should have complete walls and shields. Outposts can be without walls. For 1000's of years fortresses/castles and bases have been defended by walls/towers/fences to keep the enemy of the day out. To counter jetpacks just make the walls taller or the jetpacks only get a certain amount of height. Defending the walls of bases in the original game provided some of the best "planetside" moments 300 players assault a base defended from the walls by 80 or so people will provide the wow factor. Leaving a base open will make them extremely difficult to defend once you are even a little bit outnumbered.

[Figment]

I'd definitely like to see different levels of fortification. One of the biggest improvements I've seen sofar is roofs on the walls. Something Fort4Law suggested quite some time back.

[IMMentat]

Defending the walls of bases in the original game provided some of the best "planetside" moments 300 players assault a base defended from the walls by 80 or so people will provide the wow factor. Leaving a base open will make them extremely difficult to defend once you are even a little bit outnumbered.

Moments indeed. The minute the liberators and aircraft turned up those 80 would be cowering inside the bases main entrances or looking at a respawn timer.

[Mastachief]

Moments indeed. The minute the liberators and aircraft turned up those 80 would be cowering inside the bases main entrances or looking at a respawn timer.

Only if they failed to field enough AA, any base defended by 80 players should have no issues with aircraft really.

[Figment]

That also raises the question of gameplay design:

Fortresses best attacked by air / land / sea / infantry / etc. because the defenses are built around a focus on certain things. For instance, you could have a fortress with extra AA turrets or walls that allow for ground vehicle combat.

Or like those mines, that disallow aircraft.

[capiqu]

A little off subject, but watching the videos and looking at the cliffs made me think how nice it would be to have a few cliff side caves to snipe from.

[The Kush]

give me courtyards or give me death!

..literally

[Mechzz]

Good stuff!

Seems almost everyone who wanted to have their say wants to see a mix of base designs, at least in terms of having walls and not having walls.

In fact, I'm hoping the Devs have already implemented walls as shown in the OP on at least some bases. Would make for some immense battles, I'm sure.

Can't wait to hear if Hamma and Jennyboo get some insights and/or eyeball time with some different bases while they are with SOE.

[The noob]

Good stuff!

Seems almost everyone who wanted to have their say wants to see a mix of base designs, at least in terms of having walls and not having walls.

In fact, I'm hoping the Devs have already implemented walls as shown in the OP on at least some bases. Would make for some immense battles, I'm sure.

Can't wait to hear if Hamma and Jennyboo get some insights and/or eyeball time with some different bases while they are with SOE.

Looks like this thread's question may have been answered in regards to walls, take a look at this.
https://twitter.com/#!/CDLHamma/status/204659425661829121

[Mechzz]

Looks like this thread's question may have been answered in regards to walls, take a look at this.
https://twitter.com/#!/CDLHamma/status/204659425661829121

Wow! Thanks Noob, this restores my faith in the devs (for now). They do get it!

So, we will have some base where it's trampoline-fests for the folks who want to wear clown shoes and fuzzy wigs. Plus we get some serious old-school attritional warfare.

Now let's see if we can get turrets that work.