Vehicle seat-switching

[captainkapautz]

Sorry if this has been brought up in one of the other threads, but could be that it was buried under the whole "Holy shit TTK is low"-thing.

But if you watch the Night Ops video at around 01:42 you'll see that the driver in the magrider switches from secondary turret (Gunner) to driverseat without getting out.

IIRC, a lot of people were against that, and I have to admit I don't like that either.

Just wanted to point that out in case people were missing that.

Discuss if you want to. ;)

[Mechzz]

Sorry if this has been brought up in one of the other threads, but could be that it was buried under the whole "Holy shit TTK is low"-thing.

But if you watch the Night Ops video at around 01:42 you'll see that the driver in the magrider switches from secondary turret (Gunner) to driverseat without getting out.

IIRC, a lot of people were against that, and I have to admit I don't like that either.

Just wanted to point that out in case people were missing that.

Discuss if you want to. ;)

Go Captain! Way to calm the boards down after the shit-storm on the "pads" threads :lol::lol::lol:

Seat-swtiching has been revealed by the Devs and yes, the sky fell. It may now fall again :)

For the record I am happy to be able to hop around inside my tank and other vehicles. And please note how much good it did the guy the other night. He still got C4'd to bits :D

[captainkapautz]

Go Captain! Way to calm the boards down after the shit-storm on the "pads" threads :lol::lol::lol:

Haha, yeah that, too.

Seat-swtiching has been revealed by the Devs and yes, the sky fell. It may now fall again :)

Crap, I had a feeling it was mentioned somewhere.

For the record I am happy to be able to hop around inside my tank and other vehicles. And please note how much good it did the guy the other night. He still got C4'd to bits :D

Yeah, it ain't really that big a deal, still would've liked if it weren't in.

[Zulthus]

If you can't put vehicle enter/exit animations in, at least make locational entrances, to get in vehicle must be at a complete stop, and you must get out to get into a different seat.

[captainkapautz]

If you can't put vehicle enter/exit animations in, at least make locational entrances, to get in vehicle must be at a complete stop, and you must get out to get into a different seat.

Yes to get out to get into a different seat, No to having to stop to get out.

I think you should be able to "bail" from a ground-vehicle, BUT maybe take damage according to the speed of the vehicle.

[Bags]

Well, he is a sitting duck during it, and you saw the damage flanking and C4 does.

[captainkapautz]

Yeah, no, you don't have to convince me.

I'm perfectly fine if they keep it in, just personal preference I guess.

[Zulthus]

Yes to get out to get into a different seat, No to having to stop to get out.



You misread. I said complete stop when getting in, not getting out.

[Thomas]

Who's to say that the guy inside just doesn't have to get out of his driver's seat and go into the turret seat while inside the tank but we just don't see it? :P

[Mr DeCastellac]

I was discussing seat switching with a friend of mine. I don't like the idea of an instant switch like in Battlefield, but I like the idea of being able to change seats. There should be a switch delay before you can use the new seat's gun. So if you're a gal gunner or something, it might take 3 seconds or so to switch to another seat, and during that time you couldn't fire guns from either seat.

The time might vary as well, depending on the vehicle. Not sure if the ATVs will be 2 seaters like in Battlefield or 1 seaters like in the original Planetside, but an ATV might be a much quicker switch, one second or so.

It would be just like in a real vehicle, you can switch seats without getting out and running around the side, but it takes some time.

An internal switching feature would be really great, but it would definitely need to be balanced properly so someone doesn't just teleport to a gunner seat and fire for a second or two, then teleporting back to the pilot seat.

Also, it would be good to restrict the pilot or driver from switching to avoid the above situation, or ones like it. Of course, in the case of a pilot, losing control for 3 seconds or more can be fatal :D

[Mechzz]

...An internal switching feature would be really great, but it would definitely need to be balanced properly so someone doesn't just teleport to a gunner seat and fire for a second or two, then teleporting back to the pilot seat.

Also, it would be good to restrict the pilot or driver from switching to avoid the above situation, or ones like it. Of course, in the case of a pilot, losing control for 3 seconds or more can be fatal :D

The magrider gunner who switched to the AA position of his magrider lived for about 10 seconds after switching instantly. Why does that need to be balanced further?

If the pilot wants to flip positions why shouldn't he be allowed to? With the new Physix engine, he won't get a good firing position as his Lib/Gal rolls away to its death.

[Mr DeCastellac]

The magrider gunner who switched to the AA position of his magrider lived for about 10 seconds after switching instantly. Why does that need to be balanced further?

If the pilot wants to flip positions why shouldn't he be allowed to? With the new Physix engine, he won't get a good firing position as his Lib/Gal rolls away to its death.

You're confusing "balanced" with "nerfed". Balance can go either way.

And the pilot shouldn't be able to switch because, in my opinion, it's unrealistic. If you were flying a real aircraft, you wouldn't get out of the pilot seat and run over to a gunning position. Nobody would be flying the ship.

[Toppopia]

Just force pilots to be in the pilot seat unless they land, because if you are flying, you chose to be the pilot, why choose a galaxy if you are by yourself? Thats just stupid. You're meant to have teammates who use those guns for you.

[captainkapautz]

You misread. I said complete stop when getting in, not getting out.

Oh, sorry about that.

[Khorneholio]

I don't have a problem with seat switching. Heck, even entering and exiting from non-specific points on a vehicle isn't a cardinal sin to me. That being said, what is important to me is that both of these things take time... even if it's only a small amount of time.

When a player wants to enter or exit any vehicle or change vehicle positions bring up a circular indicator much like the one that comes up in the night ops video when he's capping the point. The time needed would be fine tuned in beta, but off the top of my head I'd say 3-5 seconds?

As for timed entering and exiting of vehicles, this would prevent some "tactics" that annoy some of us when playing other popular shooters. For example:

-Vehicle drivers jumping out instantly at the very last second before you land the killing blow, thusly robbing you of your kill credit.

-Drivers jumping out instantly as you're placing an explosive charge on their vehicle, killing you with their personal weapon, and then jumping back in instantly as if nothing ever happened.

It would also be an excellent compromise which allows players to exit a vehicle without stopping but requires the vehicle to be stopped or moving at infantry speed in order for them to enter it.

Delaying changing crew position within a vehicle creates a system that maintains a single driver's flexibility in dealing with different kinds of threats while introducing a time cost which balances out this added flexibility. It also prevents the "one man army" driver who can fire a main gun, instantly switch to the secondary weapon and fire it while he waits for the main gun to reload, and then just as quickly switch back to the main gun and fire again. It would also prevent the ridiculous scenario of a pilot switching to a gunner seat and firing, then taking control of the aircraft once again. Falling out of the sky for 10 seconds while switching seats twice would probably put a damper on that idea.

Just my 3 cents on the issue.


EDIT: My apologies to Mr. Decasellac. Perhaps I'll learn to fully read a thread before I comment. I assure you it was just a case of great minds thinking alike, not plagiarism. :)

[Toppopia]

I would also like a delay in entering/exiting vehicles. Sooo many times in BF3 i have been close to killing a vehicle, then they jump out and survive, or attacking a jet, finally disable it, then low and behold, the enemy jumps out and survives, making all my hard work, almost completely a waste of time.

[Mechzz]

I would also like a delay in entering/exiting vehicles. Sooo many times in BF3 i have been close to killing a vehicle, then they jump out and survive, or attacking a jet, finally disable it, then low and behold, the enemy jumps out and survives, making all my hard work, almost completely a waste of time.

It's not hard work to kill tanks in BF. Jets/helis are harder, I agree, but tanks are not that hard to kill. And if the guy jumps out, well done to him on having sufficient awareness to survive. Your next move, of course, is to mercilessly gun him down.

Being "locked into" a tank is no fun for the guy on the receiving end, so giving him the bail option helps that no end. It's quite exciting to get away from a heli/jet/missile/AV gun/AT-mine and live to tell the tale. And "locked in" is every single time. Even with bail you don't escape every single time, so it's not lilke bailing is over-powered.

[Stardouser]

It's not hard work to kill tanks in BF. Jets/helis are harder, I agree, but tanks are not that hard to kill. And if the guy jumps out, well done to him on having sufficient awareness to survive. Your next move, of course, is to mercilessly gun him down.

Being "locked into" a tank is no fun for the guy on the receiving end, so giving him the bail option helps that no end. It's quite exciting to get away from a heli/jet/missile/AV gun/AT-mine and live to tell the tale. And "locked in" is every single time. Even with bail you don't escape every single time, so it's not lilke bailing is over-powered.

This. Vehicles are assets, forcing someone out of it is a victory even without a kill.

I still believe in vehicle crew kits though; if you are going to man the driver or gunner positions of a tank or aircraft it would be great for game balance if you were limited to pistol and engineer repair tools.

[Mechzz]

This. Vehicles are assets, forcing someone out of it is a victory even without a kill.

I still believe in vehicle crew kits though; if you are going to man the driver or gunner positions of a tank or aircraft it would be great for game balance if you were limited to pistol and engineer repair tools.

Ya, in PS1 you were limited to light armour to drive. They may extend that to all gunnable positions for PS2 with easy seat-switching.

[Stardouser]

Ya, in PS1 you were limited to light armour to drive. They may extend that to all gunnable positions for PS2 with easy seat-switching.

I didn't just mean light armor though, I also mean, literally, pistol, repair tool and maybe a minor medpac. Last thing you want to see is light assault busting out of that wounded tank before it pops and then they fly over you and drop C4 on your head before you can react(and you won't be able to in a close quarters armor battle). Especially with no exit animations....and no I don't want animations, I'm just saying.

[Immigrant]

I don't mind changing the seats without exiting vehicles at all. Most tanks designs allow that, it would be more unnatural having to exit them to change the seat imo. Anyway all multi-crew vehicles will be underpowered when undermanned so I don't see a gameplay issue.

[Sledgecrushr]

You're confusing "balanced" with "nerfed". Balance can go either way.

And the pilot shouldn't be able to switch because, in my opinion, it's unrealistic. If you were flying a real aircraft, you wouldn't get out of the pilot seat and run over to a gunning position. Nobody would be flying the ship.

If we have some version of autopilot then I can see the pilot getting up and moving to a gunners seat. But I think on a busy battlefield that would just be suicide. This being a sandbox environment I think it would be ok to have something like that in just because it gives you options.

[Mechzz]

If we have some version of autopilot then I can see the pilot getting up and moving to a gunners seat. But I think on a busy battlefield that would just be suicide. This being a sandbox environment I think it would be ok to have something like that in just because it gives you options.

I'm generally in favour of leaving things as open as possible so we can get creative. On auto-pilots though, while a straight-line-cruise would be OK, I wouldn't want a Gal Gunship pilot to be able to set his plane to circle a base at 200m and then pop into the gunner seat for a few easy kills?

[Mr DeCastellac]

If we have some version of autopilot then I can see the pilot getting up and moving to a gunners seat. But I think on a busy battlefield that would just be suicide. This being a sandbox environment I think it would be ok to have something like that in just because it gives you options.

I suppose it does depend on whether or not there is an autopilot. I haven't heard anything about it, and it would be kind of cheap to set your liberator on autopilot as you jump in the bomber seat and start dropping bombs all over the enemy base. I think we should stress inter-faction teamwork, and a big part of that would be getting some other player, even a complete stranger, to help you fly.

[Stardouser]

I'm generally in favour of leaving things as open as possible so we can get creative. On auto-pilots though, while a straight-line-cruise would be OK, I wouldn't want a Gal Gunship pilot to be able to set his plane to circle a base at 200m and then pop into the gunner seat for a few easy kills?

I would definitely like to see a straight line autoleveler.

[Gelgoog]

I wouldn't mind transferring seats while your inside a vehicle. Jumping to that AA gun quickly could make a huge difference.

However I would still like to see the enter/exit animations like we had in PS1. Instantly phasing out of your vehicle just seems a bit odd. One of my favorite things in PS1 was to watch everyone jump in their vehicle, or the process of loading up a galaxy.

[Ceska]

it makes perfect sense ^^

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nC6Cpu96c1I

Otherwise, I'm OK for stopping the vehicule before seat switching, maybe with a 0.5~1s transfert time.