ironsig-- oh, i mean LIGHT-sights

[acosmo]

not sure if anyone's touched on this yet but the VS holographic weapon sights are wrong.

in totalbiscuit's night ops video, he uses a pulsar and the sights are REALLY BRIGHT. in order to preserve soldiers' capacity to see in the dark, red caps are used on flashlights (even flashlights damage night vision). if even damped light damages night vision capacity, blindingly bright holographic sights should obliterate a soldier's capacity to see in the dark. moving on, the purpose of weapon sights is to aim a weapon at a target. what good is a targeting device if you can't see what you need to target?

YEAH IT LOOKS COOL, BUT-- HOLOGRAPHIC SIGHTS IS TAKING IT TOO FAR SOE

[Bags]

TOO FAR SOE, YOU HEAR THIS MAN? LIGHTRON SIGHTS ARE TOO FAR

[Stardouser]

TOO FAR SOE, YOU HEAR THIS MAN? LIGHTRON SIGHTS ARE TOO FAR

Speaking of Tron, we need to get lightcycles into the 5 year plan ASAP.

Roads would be cool too!

[Baneblade]

Blue is the best color for preserving night vision, but red gives better definition.

[Xyntech]

Edit: Talking out my ass.

I didn't really like the big sort of hexagonal sight with the slit down the middle on that heavier gun in TB's video, but the Pulsar and Beamer sights look awesome.

[Baneblade]

Maybe you can customize the sights. Actually, I demand it.

[DayOne]

I don't mind the colour (you're not affected by pupils in the future apparently) I'm WAY more concerned that with that sight he had, you couldn't see for SHIT! It took up half the damn screen!

[Pyreal]

The one with the big hexagonal sights took up far too much FoV, not to mention it was too bright!
It needs to be slimmed down a lot!

[DOUBLEXBAUGH]

If the VS want to limit their FoV and blind themselves while accomplishing that, I say we let them!

[SKYeXile]

Super advanced race in the year 2600 gets blinded by lights made for looking through to aim at a target, more news at 11.

[Xyntech]

If the VS want to limit their FoV and blind themselves while accomplishing that, I say we let them!

Careful. You're liable to get a giant piece of scrap metal for one of your guns ironsights, blocking 95% of your view. Remember which empire the art department favors ;)

[DOUBLEXBAUGH]

Hip slung JH ;)

[Baneblade]

Careful. You're liable to get a giant piece of scrap metal for one of your guns ironsights, blocking 95% of your view. Remember which empire the art department favors ;)

Judging by the art... not the VS.

Just sayin'.

[Graywolves]

Holographic sights look cool. All arguments are irrelevant.

[Toppopia]

Holographic sights look cool. All arguments are irrelevant.

I second this.

And i want fully customisable sights, like in COD Black Ops, actually combine all the customisation from all games, then you can never have anyone unhappy with the sights because they can choose one that they like out of the thousands of options. But that sounds like too much work for the developers.

[Xyntech]

Judging by the art... not the VS.

Just sayin'.

Don't hate us 'cause we're beautiful.

I take no blame for TRay hitting the NC with the ugly stick. He did that on his own.

It does make me happy though ;)

Holographic sights look cool. All arguments are irrelevant.

I was digging the red illuminated TR ironsights as well. They're no holosights, but the cycler was looking pretty good in that night fighting.

[Pyreal]

I second this.

And i want fully customisable sights, like in COD Black Ops, actually combine all the customisation from all games, then you can never have anyone unhappy with the sights because they can choose one that they like out of the thousands of options. But that sounds like too much work for the developers.

But then I have to go through all the effort of using my brain and making a decision! Oh pooh. Why do these game makers have to make it so hard on me? wah wahwah

[Baneblade]

I'd rather be ugly than purple and teal.

[Evilmp]

Wouldn't it be cool to edit your own holographic sight, and store it entirely clientside? Something like a very simple shape editor that defines the holograph.

You know, instead of adding thousands of different holographic sights to a selection list or having a limited selection.

[acosmo]

Wouldn't it be cool to edit the client-side files to affect gameplay?

yeah that would be awesome.

[Evilmp]

yeah that would be awesome.

Or you could be rude through sarcasm instead of pointing out why you don't like it in a worthwhile manner.

There are pros and cons.

[Toppopia]

Wouldn't it be cool to edit your own holographic sight, and store it entirely clientside? Something like a very simple shape editor that defines the holograph.

You know, instead of adding thousands of different holographic sights to a selection list or having a limited selection.

Ah yes, that works. There is a not good not bad voxel game called Ace of ******, think Minecraft with guns and no items. So you place/destroy blocks. But you can customise your view when you aim down the sights, so i gave the rifle a scope. gave the smg a reflex sight and left the shotgun because it was useless. So customising our own sights would be awesome. But... then it would 2D instead of 3D. so it would look out of place. Unless you had a special program to make it with.

[Sledgecrushr]

Infinite weapon sights, 3$ each....

[NCLynx]

Last I saw not many of these soldiers are using their eyes without something over it (like a helment...you know one with a big'ol bright HUD in there too?).

[IMMentat]

I think its the ammount of screenspace covered by the neon area.

http://i48.tinypic.com/2qxqknb.jpg
versus
http://i47.tinypic.com/25kltvp.jpg

Even if the blanked out areas can't be seen through its an improvement.

http://i49.tinypic.com/6z29e0.jpg
A slightly more complex idea.

It's a holo-sight have some fun with it, rangefinder, thermal scope, digital clock, target shield status.
Vanu have the tech edge, lets use it for more than the carapace armour and plasma guns.

Also, the Vanu armour is coveresd in hexes, why use squares on the holo-sight?

[IMMentat]

It'll probably be a cash-shop option later, but the default cross-hair be unoffensive.

@Toppopia
The sight is just a pair of 2D images so customising the rear "bracket" and muzzle "pin" areas would be easy enough to do.
16:30 ish in the night ops video so see them to best effect.

[SKYeXile]

I think its the ammount of screenspace covered by the neon area.

http://i48.tinypic.com/2qxqknb.jpg
versus
http://i47.tinypic.com/25kltvp.jpg

Even if the blanked out areas can't be seen through its an improvement.

http://i49.tinypic.com/6z29e0.jpg
A slightly more complex idea.

It's a holo-sight have some fun with it, rangefinder, thermal scope, digital clock, target shield status.
Vanu have the tech edge, lets use it for more than the carapace armour and plasma guns.

Also, the Vanu armour is coveresd in hexes, why use squares on the holo-sight?



i retract my previous statement, change them, they're too bright and have major blind spot issues.

[bigcracker]

I think it just right
http://www.teambh.net/bf_free/1857814/page/files/attach/images/4262/814/857/001/551ret.jpg

[SKYeXile]

I think it just right
http://www.teambh.net/bf_free/1857814/page/files/attach/images/4262/814/857/001/551ret.jpg

tell me thats a video game screenshot and not a real photo in a discussion about a scifi video game or i will slap you down.

[Geist]

Judging by the art... not the VS.

Just sayin'.

Ya, they obviously favor the TR. Have you seen our Heavy Assault?:drools:

[bigcracker]

tell me thats a video game screenshot and not a real photo in a discussion about a scifi video game or i will slap you down.

No but the point for the smarter crowd would be,we see that yes in holo sights you zoom in to get a clear shot on the target your aiming at and lose situation awareness,If you want more examples of this i can show you real life and video game, and if you ask any soldier they rather have just regular iron sights no holo or ACog due the disadvantage of the scope to situation awareness.

And people saying it will give away your Position yes it will its called Scope glare.

http://community.us.playstation.com/servlet/JiveServlet/downloadImage/2-36245670-15857/450-422/glare.jpg

[CutterJohn]

The sights are definitely far too bright. If the blockage needs to remain, fine, but they don't need to be a bright blue. The contrast makes things ridiculously hard to see. Nobody ever ever ever ever would design a sight like that. Ever.


Also, +1 to allowing client side editing of reticles, including scope reticles. Just leave those specific textures unlocked and don't check them when checking the client integrity. We can handle the rest.

[IMMentat]

For comparison
NC (split-frame but only usable image I could extract/find)
Closest comparison would be a LMG sight in BF3/CoD |_( + )_|
http://i49.tinypic.com/rrplif.jpg

TR (of this I am jealous)
http://i50.tinypic.com/2hmineo.jpg

[SKYeXile]

No but the point for the smarter crowd would be,we see that yes in holo sights you zoom in to get a clear shot on the target your aiming at and lose situation awareness,If you want more examples of this i can show you real life and video game, and if you ask any soldier they rather have just regular iron sights no holo or ACog due the disadvantage of the scope to situation awareness.

So you are bringing up real life in discussion about a video game and you're referring to yourself to be apart of the "smart crowd" with real guns im sure i cant come close to the knowledge of any American on guns, i wont fight that fight. Lucky for me we're talking about a video game that does not need to hold any comparisons to whats real.

We have seen no VS iron sights, they're all holo sights by the look of it and in that screenshot they would be at a disadvantage when compared to regular iron sights, and before you star the OH WELL BUT HOLOSIGHTS VS IRONSIGHTS ISNT MEANT TO BE BALANCED...remember: there looks to be no VS ironsights, these holosights are likely the vs ironsights.

also i have seen no scope glare in PS2, please provide a screenshot of this or a link to dev comment on the matter.

[Patek]

isnt there gonna be different types of iron/holosights for all the weapons anyways? @_@

but that holo is a bit too bright for the eyes :p

[captainkapautz]

remember: there looks to be no VS ironsights, these holosights are likely the vs ironsights.

I'd say the Beamer sights are the "ironsights", and the Pulsar being the Reddot/Holo-equivalent.

Atleast I frickin hope so.

[Toppopia]

And people saying it will give away your Position yes it will its called Scope glare.


I doubt scopes cause as much scope glare as video games make us believe, because i don;t think that a sniper scope would always show up as a constant white light in the distance, I have heard stories of snipers and 1 instance in Vietnam, 2 snipers were hunting eachother, and the American was moving around and saw a flash about 1km away, quickly lined up a shot on what could have been anything from a mirror to a piece of metal, he shot it and just so happened to be the enemy sniper, so no scope glare please, unless you actually use the realistic formula for angle of refraction and such of scopes, or else don't add scope glare.

Edit: After looking at Wikipedia, it says that some scopes could glare easily, but i can still be correct by saying. "Since its the future we must have invented a new material to make sniper scopes out of or we have a special cover on them that stops glare." There we go, i kept my argument valid.

[Toppopia]

The "glare" is the reflection of sunlight, which can only be seen if you're in the cone of reflected light. Whether you can see it depends on the position of the sun, the position and angle of the scope, your own position, and which direction you're looking at.

Snipers know that they should adjust their aim as little as possible, because even an inch of movement can translate into a 10 meter cone of reflection sweep at distance, increasing the chance they get detected.

In games scope glare is often not even true reflection, it's just a light point that you can see from anywhere, put in to balance snipers. Some games use thick glowing tracers to achieve the same effect (eg PS1); letting people know where the sniper is. It would be incredibly lame otherwise. If you can be virtually invisible and keep firing strong shots from hundreds of meters away, it totally ruins the game.

I don';t mind something like a big tracer round, but glare is just stupid, i would rather be revealed after i have shot rather than before by some stupid glare. Because snipers are meant to relocate basically after every shot. Do what halo does and make a smoke trail from your bullet, lets you get/attempt a kill then you are revealed, not getting revealed before you have made a shot.

[Xyntech]

I wonder if they have some sort of artificial in engine mechanism which renders VS glowing ironsights less obvious at any distance greater than a few dozen meters.

In TB's video, the VS certainly don't seem to be glowing like christmas trees the way you would think they would based on some of the up close screen shots.

[Kipper]

I think sights will be a big cash shop item; so everyone will have options for what they prefer. At least, that makes sense to me.

Some sights might be 'better' (red dot vs traditional iron sights, or rangefinder etc) so they might need to be cert'ed....

But for those which are just variations of each other, I don't see why they wouldn't sell the variations. Like a red dot, or a 'predator' style sight - would work the same way, just a different design.

[Popper]

if you ask any soldier they rather have just regular iron sights no holo or ACog due the disadvantage of the scope to situation awareness.

And people saying it will give away your Position yes it will its called Scope glare.

http://community.us.playstation.com/servlet/JiveServlet/downloadImage/2-36245670-15857/450-422/glare.jpg

you are full of shit.

1) no soldier I have ever met would remove his aimpoint or optical sight in favor of iron sights, and none of the SF operators I have trained with has ever used ironsights (except for practice, in the event they have to pick up enemy weapons).

2) lens glare is severely reduced compared to computer games (modern military grade scopes), reddot and holo sights significantly so (if glare can be produced at all). Games often need to add the lens glare for balance reasons.


but back on topic:

http://imgur.com/2zM5G

[Stardouser]

Scope glare is absolutely ridiculous in Battlefailed 3. I'm not saying scope glare shouldn't exist, but BF3's scope glare is yet another extreme casualization designed to equalize lower skill players with higher skill players and has no place in the game. I mean come on, it's as bright as a flashlight!

If we are going to have scope glare, it should only be visible when an enemy is looking right at you and it should be very slight.

And, it shouldn't happen at night. How ridiculous would that be, scope glare in the dark of night with no sun to glare?

[Serpent]

What I was thinking for the VS sights:

Simply have a small system in the gun that has a transparency trigger for those large half hexagons. When looking down the sights, the half hexagons will dim significantly.

[captainkapautz]

What I was thinking for the VS sights:

Simply have a small system in the gun that has a transparency trigger for those large half hexagons. When looking down the sights, the half hexagons will dim significantly.

Why have 'em bright in the first place, to make 'em easier to find?

"Now where were my sights again? Oh right, on top of my gun!"

...What?

[Serpent]

If you looked closely, you would know I was referring to the hexagons and not the actual crosshairs. Look again. Sheesh.

And why not have them bright when not zoomed in? People don't stare at their guns when they aren't aiming down the sights, they look forward at the hip-fire crosshairs. It wouldn't make sense to dim them just because.

[acosmo]

im glad im not the only one. first page of responses had me a little nervous there.

[IMMentat]

Not one to claim credit often. ;)
I think the visual evidence helped the "too bright" side of the argument.

[captainkapautz]

If you looked closely, you would know I was referring to the hexagons and not the actual crosshairs. Look again. Sheesh.

And why not have them bright when not zoomed in? People don't stare at their guns when they aren't aiming down the sights, they look forward at the hip-fire crosshairs. It wouldn't make sense to dim them just because.


Hexagons are still part of the sights, and I never once said crosshair anywhere.

And about the not not making sense part, does it make sense to have a bright sight on your gun that dims when you bring it up to aim?

No, it doesn't, it does however make sense to have a sight that stays the same brightness at all times.

[Serpent]

The difference between whether or not you can see with the holographic sight when it's at hip level is so small it really makes little to no difference. Here:

http://i.imgur.com/SvQA2.jpg

That's the iron sights. In all honestly, let's take this to a different route: Why have the hexagons there at all?

[captainkapautz]

The difference between whether or not you can see with the holographic sight when it's at hip level is so small it really makes little to no difference. Here:

http://i.imgur.com/SvQA2.jpg

That's the iron sights. In all honestly, let's take this to a different route: Why have the hexagons there at all?

So, what are you actually trying to say?

Fuck VS, they don't need cool sights and only get their standard ironsights?

Because at the moment I don't quite follow.

[IMMentat]

I kinda like that version.

[Serpent]

All I am saying is a re-design might actually be better. The Holographic sights SHOULD stay, (I actually am planning to play as VS) but this should clear it up:

I never said take away the holographic sights, that's just an assumption.

Also- If you're familiar with Halo's Plasma Rifle, an example (JUST an example mind you) could be those sights with a circle surrounding it. A windmill could also somehow be incorporated. There are a lot of different ways to do it, and it would be easy to do so because of how blocky those hexes are. They can be improved easily.

[Brusi]

Jesus guys... This is the future! To put it simply, as long as the idea is cool then we can make up whatever functional reality we like... USING SCIENCE FICTION!!!

Don't forget, we have...

http://i.imgur.com/00PQ3.jpg

[Mr DeCastellac]

I second this.

And i want fully customisable sights, like in COD Black Ops, actually combine all the customisation from all games, then you can never have anyone unhappy with the sights because they can choose one that they like out of the thousands of options. But that sounds like too much work for the developers.

You had me until "...like in COD Black Ops".

I'm going to go take a shower.