I’m a little worried about the new engine’s performance.

[raykor]

The several “official” videos I’ve seen are, naturally, edited to highlight the best; yet even with the favorable editing, I still see quite a few stutters.

It’s just one of those pet peeves that really breaks immersion for me. And we have yet to see what will happen with hundreds of people on screen.

I am tremendously looking forward to this game so I hope I’m wrong.

[Baneblade]

Animation stutters or actual stutters?

[raykor]

Animation stutters or actual stutters?

I don’t know what an animation stutter is.

The stuttering I am referring to is definitely graphics engine performance related as I’ve seen it many times when pushing graphically demanding games beyond the hardware’s limits. I understand the game is in alpha and far from fully optimized but I have heard that many times and have yet to witness the mythical launch day miracle patch. I’m not saying it won’t improve but I’m skeptical of a massive improvement.

I want to see a 40 min. video of a fan playing the game at a convention and participating in a 300+ player battle—with smooth performance. I realize the game is not at that stage of development but until I see such a video, I remain optimistic but skeptical.

[raykor]

Another issue I could not help but notice is related but different.

The aircraft in the latest video simply do not move smoothly across the screen; they jerk from one position to another. I don’t think this has anything to do with the performance of the graphics engine.

There are several scenes where an aircraft is moving fast and you see no stuttering whatsoever from the graphics engine in the rendering of the terrain or cockpit. Yet the other aircraft in the scene are hopping from spot to spot—minor hops, but to me they are very obvious.

Is it server lag? I sincerely doubt it since the video was probably recorded with in-house staff all playing locally. It could be bad netcode, bad integration of position updates in the client, forced behavior by the client to ensure acceptable performance, or one of a dozen other reasons.

I hope it gets the attention I think it deserves.

[CyclesMcHurtz]

... I realize the game is not at that stage of development but until I see such a video, I remain optimistic but skeptical.

I understand your concerns about performance and believe me when I say you are not the only person looking at performance in large battles.

[raykor]

I understand your concerns about performance and believe me when I say you are not the only person looking at performance in large battles.

A reassurance from a coder and not a marketing ace…skepticism diminished.

Thanks for taking the time to post.

[kertvon]

Wayyy to early to conclude any performance issues. That is the double edged sword of leaking progress to communities/fans... while we get excited about the content, the developers run the risk of creating negative buzz associated with early development issues.

Though the concerns are genuine, let's give it some time, I am sure the devs are gonna blow our socks off!

FYI devs, you guys are killing it. PS2 is looking great!

[Xyntech]

We all want the game to look solid and perform well.

That being said, they are picking and choosing what footage to share, but they are not holding much back either. We are desperate for scraps of info and they have been very obliging, even showing stuff that isn't fully cooked.

The game still clearly has a ways to go before launch, so the best thing we can do is just shut up about the little flaws and let them do their job.

They clearly intend this to be a cutting edge AAAA FPS title. That wont happen if they leave it rough around the edges.

Unless it's a matter of gameplay or balance mechanics, just shut the fuck up about it and appreciate that we are getting to see as much as we are. Seriously, shut the fuck up. You don't deserve to see alpha footage if you are going to bitch about the small stuff, so just do us all a favor and don't even watch the videos if you can't grasp that.

This is the very reason that so many developers don't show much footage until right before release. I for one am much more partial to the PS2 devs attitude, of showing us as much as possible, and I want them to keep doing it.

So show a little respect and gratitude, and have just a tiny bit of perspective on the whole thing.

At least wait until beta before starting to worry about this shit. Alpha is pretty much synonymous with 'broken'.

[JPalmer]

https://twitter.com/mhigby/status/205759922049265664

[PeteHMB]

We all want the game to look solid and perform well.

That being said, they are picking and choosing what footage to share, but they are not holding much back either. We are desperate for scraps of info and they have been very obliging, even showing stuff that isn't fully cooked.

The game still clearly has a ways to go before launch, so the best thing we can do is just shut up about the little flaws and let them do their job.

They clearly intend this to be a cutting edge AAAA FPS title. That wont happen if they leave it rough around the edges.

Unless it's a matter of gameplay or balance mechanics, just shut the fuck up about it and appreciate that we are getting to see as much as we are. Seriously, shut the fuck up. You don't deserve to see alpha footage if you are going to bitch about the small stuff, so just do us all a favor and don't even watch the videos if you can't grasp that.

This is the very reason that so many developers don't show much footage until right before release. I for one am much more partial to the PS2 devs attitude, of showing us as much as possible, and I want them to keep doing it.

So show a little respect and gratitude, and have just a tiny bit of perspective on the whole thing.

At least wait until beta before starting to worry about this shit. Alpha is pretty much synonymous with 'broken'.

Best post yet from a Barney...

[Xyntech]

https://twitter.com/mhigby/status/205759922049265664

Nice, good to know.

Also, 100% more constructive than the doomsayers. Nothing wrong with asking a reasonable question on twitter. It's the devs call if they want to answer it or not.

[Virulence]

I think they're going to be able to do a LOT more about this sort of thing once they have the game in beta and are able to gather a wider variety of data from situations with many more players than what they're able to manage in internal playtests combined with a wider variety of performance data from a wider variety of system configurations.

[Roidster]

just remember those aren't really gaming machines they are playing on

[RedKnights]

My summer wages will almost certainly be dedicated to buying myself a shiny new Nvidia card to try to power through this game day one.

Regardless I'm confident the issues we see will be resolved, the people working on this game seem to be quite proud of their work, and their commitment to making no commitments regarding the release date mean they'll be working on those small hic-ups.

Also the team that made an engine look this stunning can certainly handle some optimization =P

[Roidster]

video card wont help unless you have the CPU and Ram to back it

[Stardouser]

What is the "popping"?

[colorpilot]

There is a good chance they are playing on a server that is not hosted locally. the stuttering, rubber banding what ever you want to call it, is annoying but not relay worth making a forum post about as the game is in alpha and it would be ridiculous to thing they are not aware of something as visible as that, it would also be silly to think that something like this is not being worked on.

i do however understand your concern as we all want this game to be perfect, but if they is not ironed out during internal testing i would like to think during beta they can resolve it.

i have all so noticed several things in video that are rather annoying but i will wait till beat comes round before i mention them as there is a good chance they will be gone by then.

[Hamma]

I understand your concerns about performance and believe me when I say you are not the only person looking at performance in large battles.

Indeed! This guy lives and breathes engine performance for PlanetSide 2 :D

[Kipper]

I don't think there's a need to worry. The nature of what the game is means that performance is going to be more important than almost everything else.

I expect anything presently seen was filmed while Arclegger was crashing a galaxy into the server room.

[Shogun]

pah, just compare the stuttering we saw in the gdc footage to the newest videos from tb or the new airbattle video! the progress is impressive for the short amount of time! and like higby said, they are RIGHT NOW working on this shit.

it´s a shame, that no matter how obviously you state that the game is in alpha stage, you still get people freaking out about stuff like that.
damn not even all gamesystems were implemented in the last videos we saw, so how can you even think of the game being optimized for performance yet?
first, everything has to be ingame and working, then it´s time to optimize and see how you can make a computer cope with all these sick features without taking an arrow to the knee ;)

[duomaxwl]

He might've talked been talking about the visual stuttering? I know in the aircraft video they did there is a little stutter towards the end when things get hectic, but honestly, it's Alpha. It can only get better from here, and damn, it's looking fine already.

[EVILoHOMER]

Get us in beta already SOE to let us test large battle performance :D

[EVILoHOMER]

Would like to know the specs you need to max the game out, I hope they've gone to put most of it on the GPU as they're far more powerful than CPUs.

I've just bought 670SLI so I hope that will be good enough to max the game out at a stable framerate.

[Roidster]

Would like to know the specs you need to max the game out, I hope they've gone to put most of it on the GPU as they're far more powerful than CPUs.

I've just bought 670SLI so I hope that will be good enough to max the game out at a stable framerate.

a 670 is a nice card,your still going to need a decent CPU to back that up

[Tricky]

If my beast of a PC can't run it across all 3 of my monitors, it can't be run. I'm not really worried about it to be honest, have faith in the devs

[Roidster]

If my beast of a PC can't run it across all 3 of my monitors, it can't be run. I'm not really worried about it to be honest, have faith in the devs
ya my monster machine and 3x24's cant wait to be put to the test

[Rbstr]

Seriously, SOE doesn't want to put out a game that no one can play. You really think they're going to ship with graphics that some reasonable number of machines can't handle?

Back in it's day PS was pretty graphically demanding...but I still got by on my bargain bin Celron machine by turning the shiny down. There's no reason for PS2 to be different.

I understand your concerns about performance and believe me when I say you are not the only person looking at performance in large battles.

[Bags]

Would like to know the specs you need to max the game out, I hope they've gone to put most of it on the GPU as they're far more powerful than CPUs.

I've just bought 670SLI so I hope that will be good enough to max the game out at a stable framerate.

Well, Higby said SLI'd 580s (their test machine GPU) was "complete overkill" to run the game.

A while back he tweeted to someone whose rig was like 8gb ddr3, 2500k, and a 560 ti and told them it looked "bitching" for PS2.

[EVILoHOMER]

a 670 is a nice card,your still going to need a decent CPU to back that up

Depends if the game is CPU heavy or not, which I don't see why it would be. BF3 is GPU heavy and the CPU barely impacts it, I can run close to the FPS I run on a Quad with a Dual core because it's so GPU focused. That is the way PS2 needs to be, SOE made the mistake of going CPU focused with EQ2 and look where it got them... GPUs are just far more powerful so put the load on them. Obviously though you have that fact that prebuilts are more CPU than GPU but...... it really needs to be put on the GPU.

I'm worried it wont be because oh Physx being used as the physc engine and not just the paper flying across the floor engine lol. It can run just as well on the CPU as it can with one Nvidia card..... I just hope they aren't going CPU driven or I'm out lol. I've seen so many CPU driven games over the year just fail because there is no power in them, GPUs are far better.

[KTNApollo]

Less to do with engine and more to do with netcode it seems. Don't rush them!

[CyclesMcHurtz]

... Depends if the game is CPU heavy or not, which I don't see why it would be ...

It is the nature of MMO games to be CPU heavy, due to the massive numbers of players involved.

[KTNApollo]

It is the nature of MMO games to be CPU heavy, due to the massive numbers of players involved.

This. SW:TOR ate up my CPU, and that game looks like it was made in 2006.

[Kurtz]

When planetside launched it was a slide show (I was getting 12 fps) and the lag was so bad that you rubber banded across the map. You couldn't get an AMS down for 30 seconds before it was found and destroyed or you'd just get blown up trying to get from one base to another. You'd get kicked off the server and you would have to wait 40 mins to get back in the game. I'm not sure how many people were on a server but it was absolute madness.

It was the fucking awesome. I wouldn't trade it for the world.

I would be actually disappointed if the game ran smooth as glass but it was because the battles were only 300 players. Thousands I say. Thousands.

[ArmedZealot]

This. SW:TOR ate up my CPU, and that game looks like it was made in 2006.


What cpu?

[CrystalViolet]

Good thing I just ordered a Corsair H100 for my 2600K. 4.6ghz, here I come. :cool:

[Xyntech]

I would be actually disappointed if the game ran smooth as glass but it was because the battles were only 300 players. Thousands I say. Thousands.

I'd love an update on whether they are still shooting for 2000 or if they have lowered their current target. Maybe they won't know for sure until beta I guess.

2000 really seems like a good number. Four times more players than in PS1 would be a nice substantial upgrade from the first game, and more importantly if there are only 3 continents at launch, then a PS2 server will still be able to hold more players than a PS1 server could.

PS1 = 10 continents X 500 players per continent = 5000 players

PS2 = 3 continents X 2000 players per continent = 6000 players

[KTNApollo]

What cpu?

i7 2600k. SW:TOR had a terribly optimized engine that drained CPU usage like no tomorrow.

[Xyntech]

Doubt they can support 2000 in a small area. That's probably one of the chief concerns they are working through right now (If the territory and mission control system can reliably guarantee that won't happen.) Either that or the cont pop limit may have to come down.

It could be that they end up doing some sort of hex population cap I suppose. That seems like it would kind of suck though. I'll be interested to find out what their solutions are.

[SKYeXile]

i7 2600k. SW:TOR had a terribly optimized engine that drained CPU usage like no tomorrow.

hero engine is a POS.

[KTNApollo]

hero engine is a POS.

No joke. The engine is the #1 reason I quit SW:TOR. Wanna open up a menu? No problem, here's a million dropped frames.

[EVILoHOMER]

It is the nature of MMO games to be CPU heavy, due to the massive numbers of players involved.

It's my understanding though that the GPU has become more than just a graphics processor and is much broader than that. Physx can be shifted to the GPU or the CPU (though I believe Nvidia don't support the CPU side as much) though I'm guessing if it's your physics engine then it would be CPU based?

BF3 is no small scale FPS, it's small compared to Planetside 2 in terms of numbers but that is so heavily GPU based to the point where dual core and quad core doesn't make much of a difference.

I'm no expert but surely you can find a good balance rather than the mess Bioware made of SWTOR where it used all of the CPU and none of the GPU? We have these beasts sitting in out PCs with hundreds of cores now and they aren't being used.

[EVILoHOMER]

No joke. The engine is the #1 reason I quit SW:TOR. Wanna open up a menu? No problem, here's a million dropped frames.

Many reasons I quit but the engine wasn't one of them... I stuck with SWG until the failed JTLS expansion and then finally quit with the NGE.... hell I even liked EQ2 until SOE launched it and I couldn't find a group any more cause WoW killed it by December lol.

SWTOR is a WoW clone, people are tired of WoW clones because they could just play WoW. The problem SWTOR had is it wasn't even a good clone, it took everything from WoW and made it worse. Star Wars doesn't have the same impact it used to before Episode One and all this clone wars crap.

Bioware have never been know for their good game design, in fact if you play all their games they aren't fun to play, their stories aren't even good. For some reason they've been know has massive story tellers and I'd say Valve are much better at it... go play Portal 2 and tell me it isn't the best written game of all time!.

[Baneblade]

Seriously, SOE doesn't want to put out a game that no one can play. You really think they're going to ship with graphics that some reasonable number of machines can't handle?

SWG?












:p

[Toppopia]

Many reasons I quit but the engine wasn't one of them... I stuck with SWG until the failed JTLS expansion and then finally quit with the NGE.... hell I even liked EQ2 until SOE launched it and I couldn't find a group any more cause WoW killed it by December lol.

SWTOR is a WoW clone, people are tired of WoW clones because they could just play WoW. The problem SWTOR had is it wasn't even a good clone, it took everything from WoW and made it worse. Star Wars doesn't have the same impact it used to before Episode One and all this clone wars crap.

Bioware have never been know for their good game design, in fact if you play all their games they aren't fun to play, their stories aren't even good. For some reason they've been know has massive story tellers and I'd say Valve are much better at it... go play Portal 2 and tell me it isn't the best written game of all time!.

Ahem.. KOTOR was an awesome series, i wish they continued to make a KOTOR 3, and not just an MMO version, because i want and end to the story, which i have been told that SWTOR is meant to end it, but i want a proper game like the previous 2 KOTOR's.

[KTNApollo]

Ahem.. KOTOR was an awesome series, i wish they continued to make a KOTOR 3, and not just an MMO version, because i want and end to the story, which i have been told that SWTOR is meant to end it, but i want a proper game like the previous 2 KOTOR's.

The ending of the Revan story is so underwhelming it's probably better if you don't know.

[Toppopia]

The ending of the Revan story is so underwhelming it's probably better if you don't know.

I have played both games. And i wished for a 3rd, but noooo... they release an MMO that doesn't even sound like the same story and say they won't release a KOTOR 3, damn you bio-ware, oh. and Dragon Age Origins was a good game, if only Mass Effect 3 had a good of ending as Origins did...

[kaffis]

I've seen so many CPU driven games over the year just fail because there is no power in them, GPUs are far better.
Um.. Even if we accept your premise that a) the CPU vs. GPU load is arbitrary, and can be trivially migrated from one to the other regardless of coding tasks (which is wrong), and b) CPU driven games fail...

They only would do so because people like you refuse to accept that having a worthwhile CPU is an important part of building a gaming computer.

[Eyeklops]

Is ram bandwidth any concern for fps mmo's? Each person is a bit of data that needs stored, read, and modified in ram. I would think this could really put a strain on some older system considering FPS's update this data on a much more frequently than other game types.