gamesindustry PS2 article "Can it grab the Call of Duty audience?"

[Lonehunter]

GamesIndustry Article (http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2012-05-24-sony-onlines-planetside-2-can-it-grab-the-call-of-duty-audience)

[Rainfur]

Skimmed it, looks interesting. I'll have a delve into it later. :)

Thanks for posting this!

[Lonehunter]

Yeah there's really not many other communities he could be referring to, of the few he mentioned we certainly have the most hardcore followers and Planetside 1 players

[Bags]

Call of Duty audience? Please no.

[Aractain]

Call of Duty audience? Please no.

You do realise that you can SHOOT the Call of Duty audience if they play PS2? (and ignore the ones on your team).

[Bags]

I don't want them asking for red face jam on the forums. D:

[Figment]

I don't want them asking for red face jam on the forums. D:

I don't think we have to worry about that anymore since the CoD "BLOODY SCREEN, SO REAL!11!!" campaign. :D

[VelRa]

So if I understood his bit about the mission system, there will be a top-level mission system controlled by devs/AI, in addition to the player-generated mission system?

[onwee]

Call of Duty audience? Please no.

Your mom.

No but really, part of me wants more targets to kill, and the other part of me doesn't want people screaming in my headphones and teamkilling me.

[Gandhi]

and teamkilling me.
I think they'll smarten up after the grief system gives them a few weapon locks.

[Novacane]

/ignore and one can only hope, Weapons Lock!

Oh yeah, and passworded TS and Vent servers too

[Figment]

Those fearing the CoD kiddies:

One day most of you were like what they are now. ;P

One day they grow up a bit too. Not too much.



Rather than the CoD crowd, expect a HUGE influx from eastern Europe. Free 2 play gamers people. Free to play gamers.

@ Velra: yes.

[ichebu]

/ignore and one can only hope, Weapons Lock!

Oh yeah, and passworded TS and Vent servers too

^This

While I hope PS2 will have good in-game voice communication, as that can be a powerful tool, I will still probably end up using Vent for primary communications.

[Kurtz]

Higby-
I go on the fansites, the big PlanetSide fansites like PlanetSide Universe. There's a Reddit subreddit for PlanetSide also. So I go on there quite a bit and I read ideas. I talk back and forth. If somebody has a misconception about something I said in an interview, I will always do my best to [explain] the real situation. And sometimes, people will say, "I heard you say this. I hate that. We don't want that. Change it."

That is why Higby is the best, really. Not since cornered rat solutions has there been this much interaction with the community and they were a small dev group. This is SOE. They don't have to do this.

[ringring]

And in some instances, we have. I mean, in some cases we've heard feedback from people and we've said, "Okay, this is something that's just not gonna work and the people who know this game the best, they know how to play an MMOFPS." If they don't like it, then we have to take that seriously, you know. It's not just like you have a community of shooter players. Everybody plays a shooter. So their opinions are not as important. We have a group of people who are so specialized in knowing how to play a specific type of game that they're experts. We have to listen to them. We're compelled to hear what their thoughts are. And it's been really nice being able to hear them.



Beautifully said and much appreciated Matt.

Yea, and to be honest I think it's a brave thing they have done. They're putting their best out there and allowing us to (potentially) tear it to shreds.

It is much appreciated and if you see me criticising take it with a pince of salt because overall I am blown away with what you guys and gals are doing.

[Dreamcast]

Yes it will if Planetside is a good game.



I talked to a lot of COD fans who sometimes play COD more than I play "hardcore" games and each time I mention the concept of Planetside....They like it.


Why?...Because a mass war with 1000's of people is very appealing. Most COD fans have never even thought of such thing, they are living in a 8 vs 8 lobby world.


I really doubt most COD fans are gonna be like "I prefer 8 vs 8 than 1000 players fighting in a huge war".......


So Planetside 2 just needs to be good and the people will come.

[Satexios]

I welcome everyone to Planetside 2. No matter where they come from I will help them if they are TR and I will destroy them if they are NC/Vanu and make them join TR.

;)

[Stardouser]

The big question is not, can it capture CoD's audience, but instead, IF it does capture a lot of CoD players, will SOE amend their vision of large maps to match CoD players' needs?

Battlefield certainly amended their vision...for example, flag packing. Take a map like Fushe Pass in BF2, with flags spread out all the way across 1.5 km-2.0 km distance. Then take Operation Firestorm, which might have almost the same playable area as Fushe, but the flags are all so tightly packed together that half the map is an unused desert.

And Battlefield used to have in-game VOIP and great squad tools, DICE realized that their new target audience didn't need those things, so they don't spend time on them. Planetside's outfit and squad system is one of the reasons I denounce Battlefield 3 in favor of PS2 even though I haven't even played PS2.

[KTNApollo]

The real question is do we want it to grab the CoD audience? Shitty community, check. 12 year olds, check. Noobs, check.

[Spkk]

The real question is do we want it to grab the CoD audience? Shitty community, check. 12 year olds, check. Noobs, check.

In order for PS2 to survive, there really isn't a choice. Hopefully most of them will avoid outfits and just be cannon fodder though.

[Gonefshn]

The real question is do we want it to grab the CoD audience? Shitty community, check. 12 year olds, check. Noobs, check.

Yes we do. Unlike CoD your not forced into a voice channel with those trolls.

In PS2 I can enjoy massacring them with superior tactics and cooperative gameplay.

[MacXXcaM]

They really should stop claiming PlanetSide to be the first MMOFPS. There was World War II Online before which essentially filled the gap. Looked and worked horrible, but it existed ^^

[Wakken]

CoD audience..? God I hope not...

Hopefully most of them will avoid outfits and just be cannon fodder though.

By all means, but this game will also require some team work and not everyone running around like crazy chickens trying to get their K/D up

[RNFB]

I don't think the CoD Kiddies would stay long enough to be an issue. They won't be able to carry the game with their amazing 720 ladder stall no-scope skills, so they will get frustrated and go back to CoD, especially when the next yearly rehash comes along.

[p0intman]

The CoD audience's opinion is less than relevant, so it doesnt matter.

[ArmedZealot]

The real question is do we want it to grab the CoD audience? Shitty community, check. 12 year olds, check. Noobs, check.

CoD audience..? God I hope not...

I don't think the CoD Kiddies would stay long enough to be an issue. They won't be able to carry the game with their amazing 720 ladder stall no-scope skills, so they will get frustrated and go back to CoD, especially when the next yearly rehash comes along.

The CoD audience's opinion is less than relevant, so it doesnt matter.

Such shitty attitudes all around. Way to welcome new players guys.

[Stardouser]

Such shitty attitudes all around. Way to welcome new players guys.

This is one reason why I like the idea of automatic Squad VOIP. At least we can TRY to ask the CoD imports to do things like, respawn as the needed kits, before we ostracize them.

For my part I am not even sure whether I will join an outfit, or just try to organize another random 9 guys here and there.

[KTNApollo]

Such shitty attitudes all around. Way to welcome new players guys.

It's the same attitude a lot of game communities have towards other communities. None of the DotA players wanted LoL players to join them in DotA 2 beta. Some of the LoL players stayed, most of the LoL players went back. Same thing will probably happen here.

[Atheosim]

It's the same attitude a lot of game communities have towards other communities. None of the DotA players wanted LoL players to join them in DotA 2 beta. Some of the LoL players stayed, most of the LoL players went back. Same thing will probably happen here.

I certainly hope not. Our community needs to be tolerant of other communities that wish to play with us. It's everybody's game after all, not just ours. As a community, we need to play our part in helping this game to be awesome, just like the devs who have worked so hard to do so. Xenophobia is not going to encourage community growth. I really hope the h8ers among us can understand that whatever foul attitudes they have towards CoD players is no better nor worse than whatever vulgarity some CoDers may speak with.

[ArmedZealot]

It's the same attitude a lot of game communities have towards other communities. None of the DotA players wanted LoL players to join them in DotA 2 beta. Some of the LoL players stayed, most of the LoL players went back. Same thing will probably happen here.

Yes, because we should hold ourselves to DotA standards....

[Stardouser]

No, it does matter. I didn't take Higby's comments as literal. What I think SOE is looking for is opinions/suggestions from MMOFPS veterans to help with ideas of how to bridge the gap to get and keep those guys interested. Work with Cod as well as BF player input as well. Hard for those guys to have much in the way of suggestions if they never played persistent MMOFPS so they look for PS1 guys to contrast the suggestions against their own experiences.


Do any other shooters out there have the equivalent of outfits? By that I mean, a Clan which actually exists, recognized by the game, like a guild in an MMORPG? I think the outfit system is one thing that SOE should focus on as they market to CoD players.

[ArmedZealot]

Do any other shooters out there have the equivalent of outfits? By that I mean, a Clan which actually exists, recognized by the game, like a guild in an MMORPG? I think the outfit system is one thing that SOE should focus on as they market to CoD players.

I think in a PvP perspective the closest thing would be corporations and alliances in EvE. Planetside outfits handle much like these entities.

Bringing that into the PS2 is so badass.

[IIChaosOfWarIII]

In my honest opinion Planetside 2 has a better chance of stealing some of the Halo audience then the CoD audience.

[Stardouser]

Well no doubt, in due time the CoD guys will see the benefit of a larger scale of organization. I'm trying to get a grasp on how to bridge gameplay. Those guys are used to small scale and brief fights with clearly defined win conditions right? MMOFPS is everything but that.

Well, let me explain a bit. I cannot speak for CoD players, but I have seen some Battlefield players, and yes, the kind that seem more like CoD players, ask for what they call "Clan Support". They don't necessarily want to be organized, they are actually asking for this for social reasons. But, it doesn't matter why they want it, social aspects are merely one aspect of outfits, and if we can get them into the Outfit system, it's only a matter of time before they embrace it.

[Mechzz]

Well, let me explain a bit. I cannot speak for CoD players, but I have seen some Battlefield players, and yes, the kind that seem more like CoD players, ask for what they call "Clan Support". They don't necessarily want to be organized, they are actually asking for this for social reasons. But, it doesn't matter why they want it, social aspects are merely one aspect of outfits, and if we can get them into the Outfit system, it's only a matter of time before they embrace it.

Yeah, I had never rolled with an outfit before Planetside, and it just transforms a game to have that constant thread of people you "know" running through the fights with you. Outfit = Game x 10.

Oh, and on the "foul-mouthed CoD kiddies" bit, we PCers shouldn't be too superior. Just watched whiskey5 on DayZ and was quite taken aback at the filthy language of someone playing a supposedly l33t "serious" game (way beyond PS2 aspirations).

We just need to take people as we find them, and hope the good ones gravitate to our outfit, no?

[Stardouser]

So while they call out for social support reasons, the organized outfits kick their asses into realizing they need to conform or be cast out? :lol:

I suppose there is that too! But I mean, once they are in the outfit so they can all be in text/voip at the same time and type OMG I l337 quickscoped that guy, they will say, hey, what is this command function thing, let's find out...

[KiddParK]

Mission system. That is going to be the key here.

commanders being able to set up missions that possibly award xp bonuses?

yes please.

[Furber]

I dont really like the name of the article, almost reminds me of the whole "This MMO will be the WoW killer!" (From other mmorpgs). But, the actual article was really good. Always does my heart good to hear Higby explain how much more meaningful Planetside battles are than round based games.

[Dreamcast]

The average PC COD player is a lot better at gaming in general than most of what I've seen in Planetside.

A lot of people talk shit about CoD being the same game for the last 4 years or whatever.


Then they natually hate the CoD players but I gotta admit, a lot of CoD players have skill to play CoD....and a lot of "1337" pc gamers won't hang.

Why?


Because a lot of these "CoD" casual gamers you guys shit about, only play CoD for the whole day....Is pretty crazy....they are good with "CoD" and fast pace games like CoD.


Inb4 people come here saying CoD has auto aim and they wouldn't hang in tribes...Might be true since they are different types of games but CoD takes a lot of skill since a shit load of people player and for a lot of them, is the only game they play all day.


I will welcome CoD players to Planetside....and casual gamers as well which is why Planetside 2 will lets u get certs or whatever while a person is offline.

[xIIDeAdLyIIx]

I think this discussion is very similar to 'Letting scooters into skate parks': on the one hand it brings a new culture to the game with different styles, on the other hand if they don't know their place they could become a menace.

I think it comes down to the mindset of the player, one call of duty veteran I talked to said he wouldn't like the game because he wouldn't be able to be the lone hero of the team with a 30-2 death ratio.

[Stardouser]

I think this discussion is very similar to 'Letting scooters into skate parks': on the one hand it brings a new culture to the game with different styles, on the other hand if they don't know their place they could become a menace.

I think it comes down to the mindset of the player, one call of duty veteran I talked to said he wouldn't like the game because he wouldn't be able to be the lone hero of the team with a 30-2 death ratio.

And yet sometimes, what if you could be the hero of an entire battle? By the way, what are some ways you could be the hero of an entire battle? I mean to say, how would anyone know and recognize you?

And this reminds me, has any progress been made on ways to do in game pseudo-news coverage? The idea of making the meta-news should appeal to CoD players.

[Graywolves]

CoD and BF don't really have to worry about player retention as a F2P MMO would.

Just being a good shooter will pull the crowd in. Been almost a year since launch of both recent titles, casuals are ready for something newer.


-edit- If they had good player retention they couldn't properly sell their next titles.

[Red Beard]

And yet sometimes, what if you could be the hero of an entire battle? By the way, what are some ways you could be the hero of an entire battle? I mean to say, how would anyone know and recognize you?

Weren't the going to keep track of stats for large battles/capturing bases, and then highlight certain players in that kind of way? It would be a different angle (more team playish) on the same principle, and I think it would be a good way of attracting the kind of COD people around here would want.

I've played tons of COD, but PS is a whole other game, namely it's BETTER! :D:groovy:

[xIIDeAdLyIIx]

And yet sometimes, what if you could be the hero of an entire battle? By the way, what are some ways you could be the hero of an entire battle? I mean to say, how would anyone know and recognize you?

And this reminds me, has any progress been made on ways to do in game pseudo-news coverage? The idea of making the meta-news should appeal to CoD players.

I think the guy I was talking to meant in terms of being top of a leader board with everyone being below him.

I think that the joy in this game just comes from saying 'I was there' after a big battle.

A newsletter outlining the key players in a battle is definitely something that should be used. I seem to remember getting a ton of emails from WW2:OL saying how the Germans kicked the Allies ass again but how they pushed forward north instead of south

[Stardouser]

I think the guy I was talking to meant in terms of being top of a leader board with everyone being below him.

I think that the joy in this game just comes from saying 'I was there' after a big battle.

A newsletter outlining the key players in a battle is definitely something that should be used. I seem to remember getting a ton of emails from WW2:OL saying how the Germans kicked the Allies ass again but how they pushed forward north instead of south

Oh yea, I remember that about WW 2 OL. But WW2 OL was a realism sim in terms of its gameplay and it never reached the kind of player numbers PS2 will have...so it could afford to do such things for as few players as it has.

It's too bad that WW2Ol's forums are subscription only, I'd love to go onto them and ask what they think of PS2.

[sylphaen]

A difference between PS and team arena shooters like COD is that PS is IMO more about recognition from your peers than about trying to prove you are the best player on your team.

Has there ever been a thread discussing about K/D ratios in COD games or asking to lower its importance vs. other actions ?

[ArmedZealot]

Has there ever been a thread discussing about K/D ratios in COD games or asking to lower its importance vs. other actions ?

Not at all :D

[Figment]

What interests me in this discussion is how a particular player experience is supposed to be replicated to make CoD players fit in.

From which games did all of you come? Didn't you all adapt?

I would say that players may be more adaptive than they may think as long as they get a chance to get hooked on something even better than "the lone hero". Like the group of heroes. Or the stealthy bastard that saved the day.

[Hyiero]

Numbers are numbers,where they come from has little difference,in the end a lot of casual COD players will have jaws drop when they get into a 400+ man battle...sorry just can't get that anywhere else. Shouldn't discourage any other communities to come over to PS2 and enjoy something that is so unique and that they could never be provided anywhere else.

[sylphaen]

Or the stealthy bastard that saved the day.

Plenty of those in PS1. You'd imagine a CC surround by 20 guys in a basement would be safe from a single cloaker resecure with 3 minutes left...

[sylphaen]

Shouldn't discourage any other communities to come over to PS2 and enjoy something that is so unique and that they could never be provided anywhere else.

With the amount of stuff you get thrown at you in RL, they would be fools to give up without trying. I don't think anyone is trying to prevent anyone from playing PS2 (except maybe when it comes to beta keys :D); I just see people stating that an annoying person is an annoying person.

If you come from CoD (or any other game including PS1) and are not absurdly frustrating to interact with, I don't think anyone would hate you.

Now concerning the reputation of CoD players, it must have come from somewhere.

[SKYeXile]

The average PC COD player is a lot better at gaming in general than most of what I've seen in Planetside.

Yea iv seen the Battlefield stats of alot of planetside vets...most of these people were the first to call me a bad grunt...im LOLING at their time played with only k/ds of like 1.3.

[PredatorFour]

If they try and appease the cod fans the game will fail, i wish they had the guts to keep it more like the original

[ArmedZealot]

If they try and appease the cod fans the game will fail, i wish they had the guts to keep it more like the original

nope

[Aaron]

Wow, there's so much he has to consider with this game. It's simply important to make it appeal to the main FPS crowd, but he takes our opinions into balance. It must be very tough.

[Hamma]

Mission system. That is going to be the key here.

+1

[CuddleMeLoki]

If they try and appease the cod fans the game will fail, i wish they had the guts to keep it more like the original
Because the original was perfect.... oh wait..

[Figment]

Because the original was perfect.... oh wait..

The original had over 20.000 subscribers and numbers were still rising... Then Core Combat, BFRs and WoW.

There were flaws, but you make it sound like it has always been a horrible concept.

[captainkapautz]

There were flaws, but you make it sound like it has always been a horrible concept.

Flawed realization of an awesome concept.

[ringring]

Flawed realization of an awesome concept.
Everything will be a flawed realisation, perfect is impossible.

However awesome concept is awesome.

[Figment]

Flawed realization of an awesome concept.

Indeed. And I wouldn'tt say BF3 or CoD or other shooters are perfect either just because they're more well known and went through a number of "same thing really" releases.

EA/DICE etc, have always done marketing better and it's always been their most prized product, whereas SOE focused on EQ(II).

I think PS2 should receive a lot more attention, certainly with people like TB promoting it now.

[PredatorFour]

Its the TTK that concerns me. In the video it looks very similiar to the TTK on cod, i.e. appealing to cod players. Can you imagine an interfarm with double the pop that was in PS 1 fighting over it.. where you die in a split second? PS 1 was great cos you could take damage and get away to hide round a corner and repair. You wouldnt get dropped by a machine gun at medium range in a second. Yeh i know what you will say ..beta,beta,beta...;)

[Thomas]

Its the TTK that concerns me. In the video it looks very similiar to the TTK on cod, i.e. appealing to cod players. Can you imagine an interfarm with double the pop that was in PS 1 fighting over it.. where you die in a split second? PS 1 was great cos you could take damage and get away to hide round a corner and repair. You wouldnt get dropped by a machine gun at medium range in a second. Yeh i know what you will say ..beta,beta,beta...;)

It took more like 4 seconds to kill someone with an assault rifle and all it means is DON'T GO OUT OF COVER AND GET SHOT.

[Stardouser]

It took more like 4 seconds to kill someone with an assault rifle and all it means is DON'T GO OUT OF COVER AND GET SHOT.

It's a catch-22. Low TTK forces people to stay in cover, but people who stay in cover will be called campers, and then people will beg for killcam or other things to fight camping. All of this chaos revolving around a low TTK and the unwillingness to change it(IF it turns out they are unwilling to change it).

[ringring]

Its the TTK that concerns me. In the video it looks very similiar to the TTK on cod, i.e. appealing to cod players. Can you imagine an interfarm with double the pop that was in PS 1 fighting over it.. where you die in a split second? PS 1 was great cos you could take damage and get away to hide round a corner and repair. You wouldnt get dropped by a machine gun at medium range in a second. Yeh i know what you will say ..beta,beta,beta...;)

PErsonally at this stage I am not paying much attention to it. TTK is adjustable through beta and probably will be into live also. I'll see how it goes.

[Stardouser]

PErsonally at this stage I am not paying much attention to it. TTK is adjustable through beta and probably will be into live also. I'll see how it goes.

Thing is, beta or no, live or no, it's the fact that the devs need to recognize what I just said - if the TTK is so low you have no chance to avoid fire, people will camp, if people camp, others will cry about camping.

I have an idea related to this, by the way. Could some of you guys who are good at this sort of thing, devise a Time To Kill Benchmarking Guide that can be used for shooting games in general, so that we could have some actual numbers to talk about? Note that I am primarily talking about Infantry, this would be hard to do for vehicles, but maybe one of you can figure out a way to do it for vehicles. Anyway, for example, maybe we could do a standard benchmarking of infantry TTK like this. 6 tests, done as follows:
Test 1: TTK against a stationary infantry target, 20 meters away.
Test 2: TTK against a stationary infantry target, 50 meters away.
Test 3: TTK against a stationary infantry target, 100 meters away.
Test 4: TTK against a moving infantry target, sprinting perpendicular to the shooting player, 20 meters away.
Test 5: TTK against a moving infantry target, sprinting perpendicular to the shooting player, 50 meters away
Test 6: TTK against a moving infantry target, sprinting perpendicular to the shooting player, 100 meters away.

The range numbers could be changed as appropriate.

[Figment]

Thing is, beta or no, live or no, it's the fact that the devs need to recognize what I just said - if the TTK is so low you have no chance to avoid fire, people will camp, if people camp, others will cry about camping.

I have an idea related to this, by the way. Could some of you guys who are good at this sort of thing, devise a Time To Kill Benchmarking Guide that can be used for shooting games in general, so that we could have some actual numbers to talk about? Note that I am primarily talking about Infantry, this would be hard to do for vehicles, but maybe one of you can figure out a way to do it for vehicles. Anyway, for example, maybe we could do a standard benchmarking of infantry TTK like this. 6 tests, done as follows:
Test 1: TTK against a stationary infantry target, 20 meters away.
Test 2: TTK against a stationary infantry target, 50 meters away.
Test 3: TTK against a stationary infantry target, 100 meters away.
Test 4: TTK against a moving infantry target, sprinting perpendicular to the shooting player, 20 meters away.
Test 5: TTK against a moving infantry target, sprinting perpendicular to the shooting player, 50 meters away
Test 6: TTK against a moving infantry target, sprinting perpendicular to the shooting player, 100 meters away.

The range numbers could be changed as appropriate.

You mean... Damage degradation? >_>

ie. damage drop off at a distance, combined with accuracy (efficiency) and rate of fire?

[Stardouser]

You mean... Damage degradation? >_>

ie. damage drop off at a distance, combined with accuracy (efficiency) and rate of fire?

No, and yes.

See, even if bullet damage remains constant from 10 meters to 200 meters, the TTK will go up at longer range. First of all, if there is any random deviation, then the effect of that will be more pronounced at longer range as the shots spread out. The effect might be slight on a stationary target but it will increase on a moving target, that's why I have proposed both stationary tests as well as sprinting tests.

But it all goes together. It would also be nice if shooter gaming devs would agree to all provide a standardized distance scale along with a place in the game where 20, 50 and 100, 150 and 200 meters are all marked off so that these tests could be run.

I just think that if we had actual benchmark numbers to talk about we could discuss TTK better. And I am not talking about just Planetside 2, but all shooters in general.

Also, and please do not take this as a suggestion in favor of cheating, but a specialized aimbot would be necessary for this kind of testing, in order provide the exact same shooting behaviour and skill in each test. For that reason, it would be best if the devs themselves provided this, ie, an offline TTK benchmarking tool. Again, this makes it necessary for industry-wide devs to agree to do something to make this useful, which is a pipe dream that will never happen.

[xIIDeAdLyIIx]

From what I've seen in the video demonstrations, the TTK is not high if all of your shots hit the enemy, BUT, I think the weapons are less accurate than in call of duty to give players an opportunity to find cover if shot at.

If players do start camping around corners then there should be a mortar strike that makes campers disperse. I don't see a problem with players 'Digging in' as it makes battles last longer and capturing bases more of a challenge.

Beta is where this will all be resolved

[Figment]

@Stardourser: So from what I understand you want to have a standardised format for comparing each gun in each game?

[Stardouser]

@Stardourser: So from what I understand you want to have a standardised format for comparing each gun in each game?

Right. It would be nice, however, if we didn't have to deal with the fact that it's very difficult to judge distances in a game and even if the game marked distances, it might not be the same from one game to another.

And unfortunately, as I say, a specialized aimbot would be needed in order to apply a standard testing pattern, otherwise the skill of the tester would affect the results.

[Mechzz]

From what I've seen in the video demonstrations, the TTK is not high if all of your shots hit the enemy, BUT, I think the weapons are less accurate than in call of duty to give players an opportunity to find cover if shot at.

If players do start camping around corners then there should be a mortar strike that makes campers disperse. I don't see a problem with players 'Digging in' as it makes battles last longer and capturing bases more of a challenge.

Beta is where this will all be resolved

Beta will tell, agreed. But fyi since 3rd person is not in the game for infantry, hopefully camping round corners will not be a feature of PS2.

[Mechzz]

Right. It would be nice, however, if we didn't have to deal with the fact that it's very difficult to judge distances in a game and even if the game marked distances, it might not be the same from one game to another.

And unfortunately, as I say, a specialized aimbot would be needed in order to apply a standard testing pattern, otherwise the skill of the tester would affect the results.

Sounds like something we could try in the free minutes between fights. Somewhere like the wooded area so we can use trees to gauge distance.
Would be fun way to get a better feel for weapon effectiveness. Pity about the grief points though, unless we agreed to do TR on NC on VS ?

[Figment]

hopefully camping round corners will not be a feature of PS2.

Of course it will be. It's called cover and ambush.

[Stardouser]

Sounds like something we could try in the free minutes between fights. Somewhere like the wooded area so we can use trees to gauge distance.
Would be fun way to get a better feel for weapon effectiveness. Pity about the grief points though, unless we agreed to do TR on NC on VS ?

Well, see, in a non MMOFPS, this wouldn't be an issue. BF3 you just get a partner to log into the game on the other side, go near his spawn point so he can respawn for testing purposes.

In an MMOFPS it's harder and highlights what we're losing with the loss of the VR testing area.

However, although this does not help comparing one game to another, using specific landmarks(like an area with trees and using specific trees) is a great idea for a specific game, although think how funny it will be to describe it. Tree 1 TTK results, Tree 2, etc!

And sad to say but the aimbot part is absolutely necessary in order to provide standardized skill for the testing, but this could not be done without the devs' cooperation.

[Mechzz]

Of course it will be. It's called cover and ambush.

:)

yes, but in wholesome, manly way.

[Figment]

:)

yes, but in wholesome, manly way.

You mean to say blind and triggerhappy.

[Mechzz]

You mean to say blind and triggerhappy.

That'll be my TR alt. My Vanu char would never stoop to corner camping.

[Erendil]

Its the TTK that concerns me. In the video it looks very similiar to the TTK on cod, i.e. appealing to cod players. Can you imagine an interfarm with double the pop that was in PS 1 fighting over it.. where you die in a split second? PS 1 was great cos you could take damage and get away to hide round a corner and repair. You wouldnt get dropped by a machine gun at medium range in a second. Yeh i know what you will say ..beta,beta,beta...;)

I'm not too worried about weapon TTK's from the footage we've seen so far. In the GDC vid it took 5-6 shots to kill Higby when he was running around as Light Assault. Heavies will obviously be able to survive even more punishment. For comparison, the STK's of PS1 ESMA rifles were 8-9 vs Agile, 10-13 vs Rexo (9-10 before the 2004 Rexo buff).

But 5-6 shots is still more than it takes to down an opponent with even the the weakest rifle-sized weapons in COD games. STK's there are almost always 1-3 shots.

Plus there are other game mechanics that will increase your survivability as well, like rechargeable shields (allowing you to effectively negate a random bullet or two) and sprint (essentially a limitless Surge).

It seems like they've hit their TTK-mark of "between BF/COD and PS1."


Sounds like something we could try in the free minutes between fights. Somewhere like the wooded area so we can use trees to gauge distance.
Would be fun way to get a better feel for weapon effectiveness. Pity about the grief points though, unless we agreed to do TR on NC on VS ?

In PS1 you didn't get grief when shooting squadmates. If it's like that in PS2 you could just squad up and then you could shoot each other over and over to your hearts' content. :cool:

[Attackmack]

Why do they clain WWIIonline is not an MMOFPS?

[KTNApollo]

Of course it will be. It's called cover and ambush.

He means using 3rd person to look around corners, which we will not be able to do.

[Toppopia]

This is how to grab the COD people.

Show side by side footage of this compared to Consoles 'best' strategy teamwork game. So i guess thats Battlefield 3.

So show footage of a group preparing an assault. So planetside would have 50 people pulling vehicles and waypoints set. Then BF3 would show 4 people pull 1 humvee or something.

Then show the travelling to the objective, so Planetside 2 would be massive open country and being attacked. BF3 would show a 2 minute drive to the enemy base.

Then attacking the base. Planetside 2 would show a massive assault with 100 attackers 100 defenders or something, with massive air battles and ground battles. Then BF3 would show a base attack, with 10 people attacking and 15 people defending or something.

Then show in big bold letters at the end.

"So, which will you choose?"

Or if we want to compare it to COD, just instead of BF3 footage, just show the same guy running 10 metres from spawn and dieing. Over and over again.

[Papscal]

You do realise that you can SHOOT the Call of Duty audience if they play PS2? (and ignore the ones on your team).

I would kill the ones on my team as well.

[laelgon]

I would kill the ones on my team as well.

Yeah, this right here is what's wrong with part of the current Planetside community. These people you hate represent what is going to likely be the largest portion of the Planetside 2 playerbase, so you better just accept it and stop acting like you're better than them.

[Graywolves]

Yeah, this right here is what's wrong with part of the current Planetside community. These people you hate represent what is going to likely be the largest portion of the Planetside 2 playerbase, so you better just accept it and stop acting like you're better than them.

Being able to kill your friends all the time is one of the best things about Planetside.

[Dreamcast]

LMFAO...Planetside Elitist.

Yesterday I told my friend who plays COD a lot about Planetside and he loves the idea because people like mass warfare...The only reason people don't requested is because they dont know about it but that should change with planetside 2.


The COD audience won't ruin the game...A COD person can use a mic, can do teamwork,can adapt...Unlike what u elitist say which is like a person can adapt.


Sure their will be people who don't want teamwork but since the game doesn't require you to be in a team then i see nothing wrong...I like lone wolfing.

[Toppopia]

There are the good COD people, then there are the 12 year Americans that yell at you everytime you kill them, as long as i can't hear them yelling then i am fine, but if there is local chat and all i hear is "f you, thats not possible blah blah blah" then i would rather them not come. I still want the decent people, just none of the whiny kids.

So my opinion is "As long as i can't hear them, i don't mind who plays"

[Dreamcast]

There are the good COD people, then there are the 12 year Americans that yell at you everytime you kill them, as long as i can't hear them yelling then i am fine, but if there is local chat and all i hear is "f you, thats not possible blah blah blah" then i would rather them not come. I still want the decent people, just none of the whiny kids.

So my opinion is "As long as i can't hear them, i don't mind who plays"

lol...I meet people like that in every game...Supposedly "hardcore" games.