Open Beta - Want or Not?

[NewSith]

Basically from what I can tell from certain experiences prolonged open beta tests for otherwise free to play games tend to ruin the overall game population. People see a game, still rather raw and tend to leave it due to some bugs remaining for long time, without realising that they're not playing a final build. That doesn't mean they're wrong, it's just that it totally depends on how long the OBT is going to last.

Especially considering there's rather small server cap in the game, I don't find the OBT necessary because we WILL get the amount of people needed to fill one server even in the closed beta.

EDIT: Something is definitely wrong with my english these days. Sorry for hard-to-read.

[Shogun]

the closed beta has to be long!
open beta should only be for optimization and stresstesting the finished game. at least for a free to play game i think most of the bugs have to be hunted down in closed beta.

[Razicator]

I find it kinda weird how games nowadays don't have demos but betas essentially doing the same thing. Or maybe it's just the games I usually look at.

[Karriz]

It's difficult to draw the line between open beta and release in F2P games, since they're in contimuous development all the time.

PS2 should go open when it's polished enough so people don't get the wrong picture of it. Transition from open beta to release will probably happen seamlessly.

[Mr DeCastellac]

I find it kinda weird how games nowadays don't have demos but betas essentially doing the same thing. Or maybe it's just the games I usually look at.

I totally agree. I think it was in a Tribes: Ascend video I was watching where someone mentioned that most people, including a lot of game developers, see open beta as some early marketing demo. It used to be, and should still be for testing and improvement.

[Stardouser]

Open beta in many ways IS release. The question I have is, will open beta have a functioning cash shop, and if it does, how will they address the possibility that something you pay for might change before true release?

[KiddParK]

the closed beta has to be long!
open beta should only be for optimization and stresstesting the finished game. at least for a free to play game i think most of the bugs have to be hunted down in closed beta.

this.

[Mechzz]

the closed beta has to be long!
open beta should only be for optimization and stresstesting the finished game. at least for a free to play game i think most of the bugs have to be hunted down in closed beta.

seconded

[KTNApollo]

OBT will be necessary to stress the servers/netcode. Shouldn't be as long as CBT though.

[Shogun]

for boxed games that you have to buy open beta has to be a real beta and more than a demo. and it´s right that most kiddys and sadly a lot of developers abuse the name beta for a marketing demo nowadays.

for a f2p game the closed beta has to be the main testing-and developement-ground. because of the pretty seamless transition to release. especially with games that are going to be constantly improved after release. ps2 will not be "finished" at release. there will be massive changes after release, so technically the game will always be in open beta.

[NewSith]

OBT will be necessary to stress the servers/netcode. Shouldn't be as long as CBT though.

I disagree, the server caps for a persistent world is something different from servers with instances. In planetside 2 one full server is more than enough, imo. And, as I said if all PS vets are invited to CBT, than the playercount of ~6000 will be covered straight away...

[Immigrant]

Short OB (3 months max) to test out few things they aren't sure about. They should fix 95% of the problems in CB stage. And of course total reset of all character stats and exp earned before actual full version release.

[bullet]

At what point does an open beta achieve its final status? That really depends on how the devs view their product, or until marketing says they need some $$$$. Patch by patch the game gets better until a point where they feel its final. There shouldn't be any decisions premade on how long a beta test should be. They just need to polish their product and get it to the public in a timely manner, unlike Minecraft's 5 year beta.

[phazon]

T:A did the beta really well, ran alpha until it was polished then made it somewhat exclusive but if you supported the game early on they let you in, and then made it progressively easier to get in (if you really wanted to get in you could), with the massive scale of ps2 i think this is an appropriate approach once a month goes into cbt

[Neurotoxin]

It isn't something that can be determined by the community. Open Beta is going to take as long as it needs to, in order to work everything out that couldn't be in closed and shouldn't need fixing after it goes live. I'd imagine that stress testing on individual servers will be complete by the end of closed beta, so there may not be much need for an open beta in general beyond maybe balancing.

[Fuse]

I disagree, the server caps for a persistent world is something different from servers with instances. In planetside 2 one full server is more than enough, imo. And, as I said if all PS vets are invited to CBT, than the playercount of ~6000 will be covered straight away...

There will be different stages of closed beta. They can't open the gates immediately, you have to build your population in steps as you test the servers and netcode, more so in a persistent MMO than any other game type. Regardless of how many PS1 players join beta, it will never be able to fully stress-test the servers like an open beta will.

[Mastachief]

the closed beta has to be long!
open beta should only be for optimization and stresstesting the finished game. at least for a free to play game i think most of the bugs have to be hunted down in closed beta.

This

[UKSwiFT]

Yeah, open beta is generally used as a soft launch now, but that's fine because anybody not confident in their product at that stage has much larger problems. However, I don't think it's such a productive process as usually by then, the marketing is targeting a release date and you only have a certain amount of time until you want to go gold. It's premeditated and has a somewhat fake feeling for the player who wants to help improve the game past its flaws. I still remember playing the BF3 beta where they were constantly touting it as being an 'older build' than they were going to release with. Pointless bollocks.

Somebody above said this, and I have to agree that solid F2P models function well with a blurry line between beta and launch. There's no need to keep a large chunk of the playerbase out unless you feel the current build misrepresents the overall vision of the game. The earlier you get players in, the quicker you can start to line things up past just making them work. Which, of course, needs to be done first.

When you don't have to worry about securing an initial number of box sales, there's no reason to maximise and limit players getting their hands on the game before they hand over the moolah. Tribes was a brilliant example of this, because bringing in players at an early stage and keeping the Beta extended meant the game avoided being something that could of otherwise utterly destroyed it. They listened and turned it around and made something incredibly fun. When it finally launched, I had completely forgotten it was still in beta.

Not to mention, as a player who only played PS1 for one summer years back, I want the PS1 veterans to get in and give their feedback as quickly as possible, for as long as possible. This can only be a good thing for everyone. Regardless though, there needs to be more varied input from multiple different demographics for the game to flourish into excellency. I'm not taking about 'dumbing down by the casuals', I'm talking new ideas and actual constructive input.

Open Beta for as long as SoE can allow it. Tagging 'released' onto it ASAP won't do anything for the quality of the game.

[Serpent]

@OP, it's probably a better idea to at least explain what you mean by "Not enough experience to voice opinion", if put that there at all.

Anyway (no hard feelings meant)

I'd say CBT first, but there should definitely be an OBT at one point to test the servers and to see their max.

[Yenni]

@ OP: It's delicate balance to have a long enough OBT to be productive and the average gamers attention span. I hope they hit that sweet spot. because...People WILL get bored of the game especially after the inevitable server wipe.

I don't plan on playing the beta. I want to enjoy all the juices this game will let me partake in.

I want to feel planeside's warm fps glow all over my face like its the first time, because it WILL be the first time.

too much? :groovy:

[Sledgecrushr]

If you get into cb I think in this case it would be pretty cool to be able to keep your character after official launch. When the cash shop goes live of course you are going to make purchases. And why keep the cash shop offline even though its still in cb? Im sure these fine folks at soe would like to start getting some money back from this large investment that is ps2.

[PoisonTaco]

Just have a gradual beta that adds more and more people. Since you don't have to buy this game, what's the point of doing an open beta for marketing purposes or stress testing? All they have to do is expand the existing beta to add more people.

Friend invites, mass invites, promotions with beta keys to expand the beta.

That's all they really need to do.

[Mechzz]

Surprised no-one has mentioned Diablo 3 so far (soz if missed post).

Not a game I play, but weren't they in beta like forever? And they still had horrendous launch problems.

Seems to me a closed beta that's long and big enough to reasonably test server/infrastructure capacity and sort major gameplay issues should be followed by open beta to allow management of expectations in terms of server availabilty, etc. and to test likely size of launch population. With refined launch pop. estimated, go for full-on media blitz and open the doors for the party. Simples!

And on a related note, at what point will we have to pay for cash shop items? Will they be free in the closed beta or not available or we have to pay?

I would expect for open beta we need to pay.

[Fuse]

Surprised no-one has mentioned Diablo 3 so far (soz if missed post).

Not a game I play, but weren't they in beta like forever? And they still had horrendous launch problems.

They didn't do open beta but for the weekend before launch, and they were barely able to keep the servers up for that. I doubt if they were surprised by the issues at launch, but they were dedicated to hitting that window so long as most of the game wasn't broken.

[Snipefrag]

There is no question about open beta, the devs have to stretch everything to the limit before they can be certain things are going to hold together.. And the only way to do that is with thousands of people from different locales, on different PC's etc. It's not a question of 'if' for open beta, just one of when.

[Gogita]

I think the open beta should be relatively short and for stress testing purposes mainly. By keeping it short, new players can get a small taste of Planetside 2 and be curious. This curiosity will pull those players back again when the game gets officially released.

You can compare this to demos of games. Usually they're short and give players a first glance of the game. However, if the demo is too long, players will become less interested in purchasing the full game.

[RadarX]

There absolutely will be a period of Open Beta of necessary length. It's common to use this period to entice people to try the game and from a marketing perspective it makes sense. From a development perspective you want to pack the game with as many players as possible.

[Redshift]

I liked the way SWTOR did it, long closed beta, then a free for all stress test open beta for a weekend or two near the end.

[Shade Millith]

Both Closed Beta and Open Beta I want to see longer.

Particularly Closed. I've several reservations about mechanics, such as the possibility of Squad Spawning inside the area of a base (Seen on TB's videos).

I don't like the sound of the mechanic at all (bases should either have to push OUT from inside the base, or pushed INTO from out), but I want to know particulars so I can give proper feedback.

Same with other things like how Iron Sights work, ammo resupply, AA, etc.

[Gogita]

Those aspects need to be tested, but I do not see how that cannot be tested in closed beta only.

The open beta needs to be used purely for stress testing and testing certain scenarios with large number of players at the same time. Therefore, the open beta does not need to be that long.

[Gandhi]

There absolutely will be a period of Open Beta of necessary length. It's common to use this period to entice people to try the game and from a marketing perspective it makes sense. From a development perspective you want to pack the game with as many players as possible.
To me the game is "released" when the cash shop opens, this is really the only logical way to look at it because otherwise you've blurred away the line between beta and release completely. If people are paying you to play the game then it's no longer in beta. Unless at some point all purchases are refunded and all character progression is wiped, then that would be the "release".

I think that distinction is becoming more important, because a lot of people feel the developers of F2P games use the "open beta" label to excuse bugs or balance issues from what's essentially a finished product that's already "on sale". Especially if progression and purchases aren't wiped/refunded. Maybe it's not such a big deal in the end, but it just feels a bit dishonest.

And mind you this is beta from the player's perspective, internally there probably will be a build at some point that's the official release build, where you can say "Gentlemen, we're officially out of beta!". But for the players, without a wipe or official opening of the cash shop, that transition will be practically invisible.

[Gogita]

We need to end the open beta with meteorites and a bending of Auraxis.... /sarcasm

[Lorgarn]

I'd prefer if they had a long CBT, as long as it needs to be to get enough feedback and enough time to add and fix potential issues that might be highlighted during CBT. A large portion of the fanbase should be invited during the last week(s) of CBT for a proper mass-scale testing of networking and netcode.

When the game is looking ready, a OBT/Release should happen. This OBT should be short, not more than a couple of days, e.g a weekend basically. During this OBT players should be made aware that even though the game is basically ready for release, the devs will USE this time to evaluate any last potential issues that might be highlighted during this last test. If they need, they will use a bit more time before they're releasing the product. A release date should NOT be announced unless they really believe that they can make that date. Do not release an unfinished product. We all know how much a bumpy releaseday can impact the game's overall "recognition" by fans, reviewers and potential customers/players. (As seen numerous times in this industry)

I wont derail this thread too much, I just want to highlight the importance of making yourself heard should you see yourself being a part of either CBT or OBT of PlanetSide2(or any other game for that matter). Every opinion matters, it's our duty to provide the developers of our thoughts and opinions as much as it's their duty to do their best to put that information to use in one way or the other. Nuff said!

[Vancha]

If people start to feel they have an investment in their open beta character, it's probably gone on too long. I can see how long open betas might help other games, but for MMOs I'd imagine it can be hazardous.

So I suppose the answer is "as long as it takes for the game to be adequate for release".

[Stardouser]

I think that the closed beta should be in two phases:
1. Truly closed beta
2. Second phase that is still closed as far as participants, but NDA is released so that information can get out about the game, giving the community at large a chance to speak out against things like low TTK.

[Tallon]

Tbh, i prefer the beta weekends that Arenanet does. Doing and open beta this way prevents too much investment in a character (as they are wiped between events), provides ample feedback, and frees up time between tests for the dev team to work on the bigger changes that may be required.

the only problem with this is that it can severely mess up peoples lives as they forsake all human contact, sleep, hygiene, and possible food for a weekend with their favorite MMO.

[goneglockin]

I totally agree. I think it was in a Tribes: Ascend video I was watching where someone mentioned that most people, including a lot of game developers, see open beta as some early marketing demo. It used to be, and should still be for testing and improvement.

That's because sometimes it is a marketing demo hiding behind the "beta" excuse. A perfect example of this is BF3. They had a short "open beta" about 3 weeks or less to the games actual release date.

This is a game being released on physical media all over the world. 3 weeks from launch, the media is manufactured, warehoused, shipped to distribution centers, etc. The product is finished and what you see is what you get at launch. Now they may patch some things, but the game is not is going to look or feel much different... which nobody wanted to hear because "beta."

I called it what it was, a demo- and got 2 pages of folks ignoring any criticism of the game because "beta." In all reality though, the game was finished enough to have judgement passed on it and no amount of minor tweaks would justify a purchase by me.

[Sifer2]

Open Beta these days is usually more of a big demo event for subscription games. As such it isn't really necessary for Planetside 2. But they might want to do a stress test weekend before launch. Like maybe a few weeks before official release hype it up that you can play it early that weekend so we can make sure the servers are ready.

[SpcFarlen]

I think doing a beta like Tribes did would be suitable. I liked how beta rolled into launch so that there was always this ability to play the game, give feedback then in turn have them send out patches during this time. Have the ability to then give feedback on that and repeating that process over and over.

It is much better than the play a weekend, get a fix for next weekend. Where an issue can be "fixed" and still have issues and a month later it still isnt balanced/fixed yet so much time has been given.

To go with closed or open... i feel it should be open. Anyone can play this game at launch so i think anyone should be able to give their opinion on how it feels for them.

[Serpent]

There absolutely will be a period of Open Beta of necessary length. It's common to use this period to entice people to try the game and from a marketing perspective it makes sense. From a development perspective you want to pack the game with as many players as possible.

CONFIRMED OPEN BETA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:love::love::love::love::love::love::love::love::l ove::love::love:

:3

[GameCobra]

The way i see it? you guys should shoot for a long Open Beta testing.

The reason being is not only is the game going to be free, but if you make a open-ended game and want it running smoothly, you gotta expect the game to hold out long. A game like this i strongly believe can have a huge impact in coming of years. We also will likely grab older computer owners out there more easily in this game once the word of mouth gets popular with this game and would be wise if we could get those guys testing this game much quicker.

The up to date computer players will play easily at first most likely during the stress test since FPS are known for being PC spec heavy,. The old computer owners will likely have a harder time, but you likely won't find these type of players until the initial success of the beta, which i'm very confident will happen.

[Tarconus]

Short OB (3 months max) to test out few things they aren't sure about. They should fix 95% of the problems in CB stage. And of course total reset of all character stats and exp earned before actual full version release.

I don't necessarily agree with that wipe stats prior to open beta but not after. Tribes ascend didn't and it is fine. World of tanks did and with the grinding required to get up there in tanks it just wasn't worth it to stay in the game after release.

And this game is more like ascend in the fact of even a fresh player has a chance to kill people your not going to be that OP having more stuff.

[TheRandomAmiba]

what does open beta actually mean to this game...? closed beta expect bugs..... open is the same as launch because they will keep updating/fixing as long as they have players

[Dreamcast]

Open beta in free games is weird.....Is like when the game launches, their is no hype since you don't have to buy the game.


An example is Tribes Ascend, I got the game in beta I liked the game but when the game finally left beta, it was like whatever.


Is hard to explain but I feel for F2P games like Planetside, Open beta should be short.


IDK tho Im sure the developers know best...Specially if they want to test the servers so it might work wonderfully.

[Mechzz]

There absolutely will be a period of Open Beta of necessary length. It's common to use this period to entice people to try the game and from a marketing perspective it makes sense. From a development perspective you want to pack the game with as many players as possible.

"necessary length" = however long SOE needs to have open beta to drum up numbers. If the media-blitz has worked, and the game is working well it will be short as they'll want to wrap-up the golive and move on to the next project. If player numbers are low, because we (on average across the player base) don't like the game, then expect a longer open beta to allow for tweaks. I don't think SOE can afford to have this game fail.

[Stew]

Basically from what I can tell from certain experiences prolonged open beta tests for otherwise free to play games tend to ruin the overall game population. People see a game, still rather raw and tend to leave it due to some bugs remaining for long time, without realising that they're not playing a final build. That doesn't mean they're wrong, it's just that it totally depends on how long the OBT is going to last.

Especially considering there's rather small server cap in the game, I don't find the OBT necessary because we WILL get the amount of people needed to fill one server even in the closed beta.

EDIT: Something is definitely wrong with my english these days. Sorry for hard-to-read.

Actually If by long BETA you mean a eternal Beta ill say no as possible but OPEN BETA is also important when the game is pretty fairly FIX !

The scales long term testing is really important and also more people who can get in the better it is !

Mine craft as a long term alpha beta and it was a huge sucess for a card board pixel game !

So i think it could be the same for Planetside 2 !

And the thing is In MMO theyre is never a (( full compleate release )) it always have updates and post launch suport so ....

i think when the game is almost FIX in terms of glitchs , weapons balenced , animation etc..

they must go into OPEN BETA as long as they need to scales the thing ! And stress servers like crazy !

People will not leave planetside 2 Because theyre is No others games like planetside 2

[Stew]

Tribes Ascend, I got the game in beta I liked the game but when the game finally left beta, it was like whatever.


Is hard to explain but I feel for F2P games like Planetside, Open beta should be short.
.

Tribes assend is shit compare to Planetside 2 ...

Planetside 2 is the kind of games thats Blow ur mind youll be adicted to the game no need to hype the game and then make players play for weeks and lefts ...

Planetside is the game you want to play for years Making alliance with others clans creating structures and applications for the games with all the data they are going to give to us ...

Also all the possibilitys day and nigth combat real time ongoing war you dont get this persistance in tribes you dont get thats scales you dont get this true Triple A gameplay !

Tribes graphics are shit Ps2 graphics are stunning and vibrant !

2 games nothing to do with each others !

Long open beta will not hurt planetside 2 it will just reinforce its player base

[Figment]

Long closed beta would be ideal.

[Oryon22]

Long closed beta. Short open beta for performance tuning.

[Dreamcast]

Tribes assend is shit compare to Planetside 2 ...

Planetside 2 is the kind of games thats Blow ur mind youll be adicted to the game no need to hype the game and then make players play for weeks and lefts ...

Planetside is the game you want to play for years Making alliance with others clans creating structures and applications for the games with all the data they are going to give to us ...

Also all the possibilitys day and nigth combat real time ongoing war you dont get this persistance in tribes you dont get thats scales you dont get this true Triple A gameplay !

Tribes graphics are shit Ps2 graphics are stunning and vibrant !

2 games nothing to do with each others !

Long open beta will not hurt planetside 2 it will just reinforce its player base

Orly?


I was just saying F2P on open beta don't get much hype when the game actually launches since is free.


Is hard to explain but is not like Diablo 3 beta or Halo beta...You know games you actually have to buy....so when the game comes out, is exciting.


With F2P being open beta....is just an update that makes the game be "gold" so is like whatever when the game comes out....I mean the open beta will have a shitload of people playing just like when the game goes gold so the hype kind of dies off IMO.

[SKYeXile]

yea open beta is jsut marketing these days, id still expect a 2 week open beta to test how tthings go on the server with full pops over a prolonged period, the game afterall is all player ran so they really need to test how the players will play it.

Not doing this in WAR imo was a mistake, the way they designed their endgame was idiotic and untested, as a result it failed.

[Gandhi]

Tribes assend is shit compare to Planetside 2 ...
That's just, like, your opinion, man. Tribes has gameplay that you won't find in Planetside, and vice versa. They're totally different games.

Personally I think it's dishonest to call it an open beta when people are already paying you money to play the game. It's even more dishonest if you don't wipe progression and refund purchases at the end of the 'beta'. If people are paying you, and there's no wipe coming, then it's no different than a conventional boxed game hitting the shelves, and people can and do go apeshit when a conventional game hits the shelves in a beta state.

And in a F2P game your relationship to your customer is MUCH more important, in a lot of cases that relationship will dictate whether your customers play your game for free or decide to drop money on it. With a boxed game you only have to win your customers over once, with a F2P model you have to do it consistently, and that's the difference. It's incredibly important to be open and honest about your plans, because any resentment from your customers will translate into lost revenue.

So in the end a game like this needs an open beta, but I would hope that either a) the shop doesn't open until 'release' or b) progression and purchases are wiped/refunded at 'release'. That last part is especially important if you plan to make any changes to progression rate or cash shop items during the beta.

[SKYeXile]

I cant remember if i said it in this thread or one of the thousand others on this, but anything you purchase with station cash does not need to be wiped, i dont see the reason for them to refund anything when the game rolled over to launch if its available for purchase as soon as the game launches anyway, but what should be rolled back is all levels, resources, achivments allstats and prettymuch everything else.

it makes no difference if things you purchase in beta are kept for live, UNLESS those things are nerfed, then you;re not getting what you paid for and they should be refunded.

[Gandhi]

it makes no difference if things you purchase in beta are kept for live, UNLESS those things are nerfed, then you;re not getting what you paid for and they should be refunded.
If nothing changes then sure, it makes no difference. But it's a beta, so the assumption is most things will change. Rather than spend the time keeping a checklist of what you need to refund when, just refund everything at the end back to station cash. I don't see the harm in that, if you still want the thing you bought just grab it again, either way SOE got their money and you got your SC.

[kasiraghi]

Agree with most comments, but it's kind of dependant.

How many people are going to be in closed beta? If it's a lot then it should be a short open because most issues should be sorted out.

If only a (relatively) small number of people are in the closed beta this can be somewhat disastous. T:A made a huge error with their 'gradual' beta progression because a lot of their initial testers were in-house and (imho) must have been a poor representation of the overall gamers who were interested in the game. But in this case the open beta would have to be longer in order to identify 'issues'.

Open beta really should be, as others have said, a short final polish.