Orbital Strike and PS2

[Vetto]

Have they said if OS will perhaps be on a faction based timer? Cause frankly It needs to be.. just got done playing a match were I counted 5 OS in a 10 min period all be it 1 was a VS were 4 were NC to be blunt it was freaking insane.

TR was stuck in there base unable to get a any massive move out cause the moment we try and get mounted up another OS come down.

((Since the old one was locked))

[SKYeXile]

You cant have something like that locked to a timer per faction. its to open to exploits and n00bs getting a hold of it and not making the proper use of it. you could have an outfit/individual timer sure and require xx generated XP/resources per strike to use, but not faction.

[Nabeshin]

I am guessing that they will lock a timer to an account as well in addition to whatever else they do. Current state of PS1 has people with multi CR5's that can just spam OS's. Even if it would take a long time I can see people making multi chars just to have throw away OS's.

That aside, I can about imagine how insane an OS in PS2 is going to be with the massive pops, I'd shit myself if I watched one waste 100+ people.

[Vetto]

I am guessing that they will lock a timer to an account as well in addition to whatever else they do. Current state of PS1 has people with multi CR5's that can just spam OS's. Even if it would take a long time I can see people making multi chars just to have throw away OS's.

That aside, I can about imagine how insane an OS in PS2 is going to be with the massive pops, I'd shit myself if I watched one waste 100+ people.

But see that my point I think the OS was made to stop stale mates were nether side can really advance and not with the idea of having 5-10 going odd preventing any kind of rebound.

[Sirisian]

I am guessing that they will lock a timer to an account as well in addition to whatever else they do.
The resource system opens up a system for simple delays without timers. That is if a player can get say 100 of a certain resource per hour and it costs 400 individual resources to use an OS then you have a natural time delay. Especially as it forces a commander or whoever wants to use it to sacrifice not getting vehicles or other stuff in order to "save up". (The possible resource models have been discussed to death in other threads about caps and other ideas to make this a viable strategy).

I'd personally prefer a bomber loadout with a nuke though. The way orbital strikes worked in PS1 was extremely indirect.

[Nabeshin]

The resource system opens up a system for simple delays without timers. That is if a player can get say 100 of a certain resource per hour and it costs 400 individual resources to use an OS then you have a natural time delay. Especially as it forces a commander or whoever wants to use it to sacrifice not getting vehicles or other stuff in order to "save up". (The possible resource models have been discussed to death in other threads about caps and other ideas to make this a viable strategy).

You have to remember this is a persistant game, resources are going to be plentiful at some point, then people could just spam them anyway. Can't really rely on a cost based prevention.

[SKYeXile]

You have to remember this is a persistant game, resources are going to be plentiful at some point, then people could just spam them anyway. Can't really rely on a cost based prevention.

By the looks of the video, each resource is capped at 5000, except the green currency resource. though by the looks of it 5000 is alot.

Id imagine though that players with a high survival rate could buildup a stockpile of resources...classic case of the rich getting richer.

[Nabeshin]

Not to mention how many people are going to cert all the commander type stuff. You will see even more OS's in PS2 then you did in PS1 if you have 2k odd people, and if 50-100 of them can OS (eventually) based on resources that will be a mess. Then allow them to save up by not using vehicals and let them do it several times, it gets even worse.

[Sirisian]

Then allow them to save up by not using vehicals and let them do it several times, it gets even worse.
Vehicles aren't the only thing in the game to use resources. Really if there aren't multiple incentives to spend resources we'll see a ton of people maxing out all the time on resources and they will be essentially worthless. I think the developers understand this.

By the looks of the video [...]
Don't use the videos for reference. I think total biscuit even mentioned that the numbers aren't balanced or configured except for testing.

[DirtyBird]

In the early days I thought the OS was ok because there wasnt a lot that could use it. I remember in command chat it was often asked if anyone one had an OS available or to post times they would be available they were that sparse.

With the design of bases being more spread out I dont think you'd have that situation of being "locked" in to a base because there are too many OS's going off at the door.

You'll probably have to give up a fair bit to gain that OS cert anyway and if there arent as many situations to use it then its probably going to be a wasted cert most of the time. And if its on a timer its even more restricted.

[Timealude]

But see that my point I think the OS was made to stop stale mates were nether side can really advance and not with the idea of having 5-10 going odd preventing any kind of rebound.

they were meant to make a advances, preventing a counter strike is a form of strategy like any other...i mean they could always make OS worse by making them a bigger radius....

[Mezorin]

If they made Orbital Strikes a little more like Battlefield 2142 ones (ie where they are more like artillery barrages), or some form of wide area DPS that does more to vehicles than infantry they'd be fine. Players could basically run like hell and dive for cover and not be insta gibbed, but staying out in the open during it would get you killed. Good teams would also co ordinate EMP grenades and OSes to bust up particularly pesky vehicles, and it was a good "Get Out of Jail Free Card" if your team had no assets to deal with a walker making a major push.

One of my pet peeves in PS1 is if me and my mates were having a good run in a Vanguard tank or any sort of vehicles it would attract all sorts of orbital strikes just to take out a single unit, and on some bases enemy CR5s would just blast OSes non stop during an assault (like one ever 10 seconds). It was also unfair that it targeted ground vehicles in particular, but air cavalry never had to deal with it. The equivalent would be I could push a button, and a CPU controlled real life style US air force F-22 Raptor wing flies past at super cruise and rapes your entire reaver squad with beyond visual sight missiles.

[Atheosim]

Also remember that certing deeply in the command skill tree restricts you from certing a lot in other trees. I'm not sure everybody will want to give up combat/support abilities just to use an occasional OS.

[Nabeshin]

Vehicles aren't the only thing in the game to use resources. Really if there aren't multiple incentives to spend resources we'll see a ton of people maxing out all the time on resources and they will be essentially worthless. I think the developers understand this.

If you think people are not going to max on resources at some point you are lieing to yourself. Reguardless of the cap amount. I am sure other things will use resources, but you are going to have people that play this and almost never spawn a vehical or avoid spending anything. So unless SoE FORCES you to waste them on things, people will max out.

9 years made a ton of CR5's, it will happen in PS2 eventually as well. So they are going to have to limit how OS's are used and how often. It could be as simple as putting a 1 week timer on it after you fire it, also makes you not want to waste it on something retarded, like TKing your own empire...... Or it could be more involved and complex like meeting certain conditions before one can be used.

[Timealude]

[QUOTE=Sirisian;702528]Vehicles aren't the only thing in the game to use resources. Really if there aren't multiple incentives to spend resources we'll see a ton of people maxing out all the time on resources and they will be essentially worthless. I think the developers understand this.[QUOTE]

If you think people are not going to max on resources at some point you are lieing to yourself. Reguardless of the cap amount. I am sure other things will use resources, but you are going to have people that play this and almost never spawn a vehical or avoid spending anything. So unless SoE FORCES you to waste them on things, people will max out.

9 years made a ton of CR5's, it will happen in PS2 eventually as well. So they are going to have to limit how OS's are used and how often. It could be as simple as putting a 1 week timer on it after you fire it, also makes you not want to waste it on something retarded, like TKing your own empire...... Or it could be more involved and complex like meeting certain conditions before one can be used.

Im sure your most likely giving an example but i think a 1 week timer for OS is a bit much, unless they make it worth that timer, other wise you would have no one use them at all.

[Nabeshin]

Im sure your most likely giving an example but i think a 1 week timer for OS is a bit much, unless they make it worth that timer, other wise you would have no one use them at all.

Yes, an extreme example.

[Timealude]

Yes, an extreme example.

yeah, i was thinking maybe a 24 or 48 hour timer.

[Bags]

I'd hate it if they got rid of the iconic charging sky beam of death for a vehicle delivered nuke or airstrike.

[Timealude]

I'd hate it if they got rid of the iconic charging sky beam of death for a vehicle delivered nuke or airstrike.

i mentioned it awhile back during an AGN night, where they has empire specific OS, like VS get like a beam, NC get a MAC round and TR get a heavy artillery strike with like 4 or 5 rounds.

[Sirisian]

If you think people are not going to max on resources at some point you are lieing to yourself. Reguardless of the cap amount. I am sure other things will use resources, but you are going to have people that play this and almost never spawn a vehical or avoid spending anything. So unless SoE FORCES you to waste them on things, people will max out.

9 years made a ton of CR5's, it will happen in PS2 eventually as well. So they are going to have to limit how OS's are used and how often. It could be as simple as putting a 1 week timer on it after you fire it, also makes you not want to waste it on something retarded, like TKing your own empire...... Or it could be more involved and complex like meeting certain conditions before one can be used.
I'm trying to think if the damage caused by someone saving up and grinding to launch multiple of them within a certain period of time would be that dangerous. I mean I'm comparing this to say pulling multiple tanks for the same resources. Say a tank usually gets you 2 kills (low number) and an OS gets you 20, but it costs 10 times as much as a tank?

This is generally how I'm balancing things.
I'd hate it if they got rid of the iconic charging sky beam of death for a vehicle delivered nuke or airstrike.
Oh I've explained a long time ago what I want. Basically when I say "nuke" I just mean a weapon dropped from a bomber from a high altitude. So basically it would only arm after a certain distance. Basically it would charge like an OS before detonating. Same thing just a different way to look at it. :)

[Nabeshin]

I'm trying to think if the damage caused by someone saving up and grinding to launch multiple of them within a certain period of time would be that dangerous. I mean I'm comparing this to say pulling multiple tanks for the same resources. Say a tank usually gets you 2 kills (low number) and an OS gets you 20, but it costs 10 times as much as a tank?

If it was just one person doing it, it would not be a big deal at all. But the problem is you could potentially have 100+ people doing it, then it becomes something that is really going to start pissing people off. OS needs to be what it was when PS1 only had a few CR5's.

But even though we are discussing it on the forums now, we just don't know what will happen during live. I can see the OS as being something that will need to be tuned more as the game progresses. If they get out of hand, something will likely be done about it.

[Sledgecrushr]

I dont even know if they should have orbital strikes at all. I was under the impression that these long range indirect fire I win kind of attacks were not going to be implemented.

[Mechzz]

I dont even know if they should have orbital strikes at all. I was under the impression that these long range indirect fire I win kind of attacks were not going to be implemented.

someone gave the idea yesterday (can't remember which thread) that the reason artillery was not in the game was to avoid the need to track an attacker (Flail) and a target (base, etc.) that were too far apart and so save on server load. If that's correct, then OS could still be in as it only has a local effect and no need to track where it's coming from.

would be a pity to see it go. It caused some big laughs and some hairy moments.

[Kran De Loy]

If they made Orbital Strikes a little more like Battlefield 2142 ones (ie where they are more like artillery barrages), or some form of wide area DPS that does more to vehicles than infantry they'd be fine. Players could basically run like hell and dive for cover and not be insta gibbed, but staying out in the open during it would get you killed. Good teams would also co ordinate EMP grenades and OSes to bust up particularly pesky vehicles, and it was a good "Get Out of Jail Free Card" if your team had no assets to deal with a walker making a major push. Actually I really like this, both the gameplay ideas behind it but the visuals of having multiple tight beam lasers crash down around the area would be way more appealing than one massive laser that builds up a little then splashes everything nearby with incandescent rape energies.

Edit: Oh, ES orbital strikes? Yes please, as long as game play wise they act the same. Like VS multiple beam lasers, TR with a more classic artillery bombardment and NC with something like using space debris or asteroids as kenetic strikes (meteors).

Im sure your most likely giving an example but i think a 1 week timer for OS is a bit much, unless they make it worth that timer, other wise you would have no one use them at all.

Would certainly reduce the amount of appearances they make, but when one does come down it wouldn't be something that people get jaded of easily.

However the problem of people being able to make multiple accounts and logging in multiple characters just to have a character with one ready is a tad annoying. I don't see any solutions to that problem that wouldn't also be completely unreasonable.

[Warborn]

At this point the only argument really going for orbital strikes is "well they were in Planetside 1." If Planetside 1 didn't have orbital strikes, someone making a thread about including them in this game would be met with ridicule over how bad an idea it is to give people a death ray from space, where they just push a button and a bunch of people die automatically.

Could we not feel beholden to the stupid crap that was in Planetside 1, please?

[Sledgecrushr]

So are they going to balance this with the other classes? Will everyone get an I win instant kill button? Sure you spec up high in the command tree and you get the OS. So if you spec high enough in the engineering tree you get an invincible drone robot that triggers a nuke? The ligh assault when they get shot down they can trigger there jet pack to go off with a nuclear blast? Maxes get one nuke to use every 45 minutes? The list can go on forever. My point is how do you balance this thing? I dont want to be behind cover and dishing out death when some asshat with an iwin button wipes out my company with a push of a button. At least with a flail you could kill it.

[Kran De Loy]

At this point the only argument really going for orbital strikes is "well they were in Planetside 1." If Planetside 1 didn't have orbital strikes, someone making a thread about including them in this game would be met with ridicule over how bad an idea it is to give people a death ray from space, where they just push a button and a bunch of people die automatically.

Could we not feel beholden to the stupid crap that was in Planetside 1, please?

So are they going to balance this with the other classes? Will everyone get an I win instant kill button? Sure you spec up high in the command tree and you get the OS. So if you spec high enough in the engineering tree you get an invincible drone robot that triggers a nuke? The ligh assault when they get shot down they can trigger there jet pack to go off with a nuclear blast? Maxes get one nuke to use every 45 minutes? The list can go on forever. My point is how do you balance this thing? I dont want to be behind cover and dishing out death when some asshat with an iwin button wipes out my company with a push of a button. At least with a flail you could kill it.

Good points, both. I'm sad faced that the OS could potentially not be in PS2. Tho I believe the balance between classes wouldn't matter as if any class can be a Squad Leader or cert into the Command Line then of course any class could technically use an OS. (except for MAX suits. No. Just No.)

To be clearer, I'm Sad Faced because the OS would be balanced only if it was Heavily Restricted and I've learned that once you have to begin to use that phrase regularly to describe anything then it's already a lost cause. :(

[Mechzz]

Good points, both. I'm sad faced that the OS could potentially not be in PS2. Tho I believe the balance between classes wouldn't matter as if any class can be a Squad Leader or cert into the Command Line then of course any class could technically use an OS. (except for MAX suits. No. Just No.)

Yeah, I have to say I'm surprised at the depth of anti-OS feeling. Maybe because I played in an era when they were still something special rather than a regular occurrence on the battlefield.

[Skepsiis]

I dont timers are a good idea because having lots of people ingame means timers would be completeing all the time and you get the current OS spam from ps. Plus people would make multiple characters to use multiple timers.

How about making the OS ability a one use cert?

You can buy it when you have enough cert points (and resources?) as everything else, but once you have fired it you need to purchase it again. Then players have to choose to sacrifice advancing their character to buy another OS

[Kran De Loy]

I dont timers are a good idea because having lots of people ingame means timers would be completeing all the time and you get the current OS spam from ps. Plus people would make multiple characters to use multiple timers.

How about making the OS ability a one use cert?

You can buy it when you have enough cert points (and resources?) as everything else, but once you have fired it you need to purchase it again. Then players have to choose to sacrifice advancing their character to buy another OS

Still problem with secondary characters being made just to use as an OS-bot. :(
It needs some sort of restriction that would apply to multiple people. Like if it was available only to Outfits over a certain limit and put it on a timer and make it cost ridiculous amounts of resources. To prevent Outfits from spliting up into the exact amount needed to get an OS from each, make the OS timer and/or the resource cost reduced based on the number of extra people the outfit has over the minimum and give this reduction diminishing returns.

Alternatively or in addition to the above OS would be locked to base captures. Outfits that earn the most while capturing a base are awarded with an OS or a counter that builds up to an OS.

[SpLiTNuTz]

I can see the OS being right at the top of the command tree so that even if you did have multi characters it would take months to reach the unlock and probably have a few hours cool down.

[Gandhi]

You should never rely on resource costs alone to balance things. Titans in EVE were a great example of this mistake, they were supposed to be incredibly rare because they were incredibly expensive to build, and that was the justification for making them incredibly powerful. Well of course it didn't take long before each major empire could field 5 or 6 of them in any engagement, and they had to be nerfed hard. That nerf took its sweet time though, and until it showed up Titans single handedly ruined 0.0 warfare.

If we have a resource cap in PS2 then you could solve this problem by making the cost of an OS be only slightly lower than this cap, meaning firing one brings you down to near 0. And of course this only works if you only earn resources while you're actively playing. If you can earn them offline there's nothing to stop people from making OS alts.

edit: And this still doesn't avoid the problem of OS's becoming commonplace later on. If one empire for example controls most of the continent and is earning resources like mad then it'll be able to spam OS's all over the place, while the others can barely scrape enough together to keep pulling vehicles. There has to be at least a cooldown on them too.

[KTNApollo]

I'd personally prefer a bomber loadout with a nuke though. The way orbital strikes worked in PS1 was extremely indirect.

This x1000. Orbital Strikes require 0 skill to use (yeah you have to be CR5, big deal), whereas a bomber could be shot down. I'd like to see a bomber with a nuke be implemented where you spawn a bomber at a tech plant, and immediately a warning comes up on the map so that the enemy can intercept and destroy the bomber. Would add more skill because you'd need a a fleet of fighters to help protect the bomber while it made its way to the drop zone.

[Kran De Loy]

I can see the OS being right at the top of the command tree so that even if you did have multi characters it would take months to reach the unlock and probably have a few hours cool down.

That technically invalidate the 5 minute player being only 20% less than the 5 yr player. After 5 yrs many many people will have access to the OS while newer characters that have been playing for less than 1 or 2 months would have to spend ALL their time into specing into OS to get the OS. If the OS is as powerful as I believe it should be than of course they'll want to.


Personally my favorite combination of restrictions would be OS are rewarded to Outfits that do exceptionally well based on the number of people in the outfit to the number of resources they gather and the amount of work they put into capturing bases. Each outfit can will have a limited amount (more than one, less than 5) and they are put on a timer so they can not be earned OR used quickly. Also a low outfit member minimum.

This way Huge Zerg Outfits would be on equal footing with smaller tightly coordinated outfits and it would still allow that smaller casual outfits could still build up to get an OS every now and then while overall limiting the sheer number of OS.

[Sledgecrushr]

My vote is no on orbital strikes.

[Xyntech]

What if instead of having a cool down timer, the OS had a recharge timer.

You fire it off, and then it takes like 5 hours to charge back up. The catch would be that it would only continue charging as long as you met some certain criteria. Otherwise the recharge progress would be paused until you started actively meeting the criteria to charge it again.

Criteria could be something like:

- Earn 1000(?)xp per hour, to prove you are playing, not just idling
- Have at least one of the missions you give out per hour be successfully completed, to prove you're at the very least pretending to lead.
- You must be carrying the command tool (assuming such a thing exists in PS2), or else the recharge progress is paused.

At least it may cut down on the spam a little. Having it on a cool down timer just encourages you to use it ASAP to get some free kills so that it can recharge sooner so that you can get even more free kills. If you actually had to put some work into recharging it, you may end up being more interested in either keeping it in reserve, or not even bothering with the effort of recharging it.

What ever the criteria ended up being, it should be made so that it's relatively easy and painless (albeit time consuming) for an active leader to recharge their OS, while it should be annoying and a major grind for non leaders to try to charge one up.

[Immigrant]

My vote is no on orbital strikes.

I agree however:The orbital strike is making a return.

In a game like Planetside where all the roles are filled with real live players I find that breaking that element by introducing the "invisible men in the sky" firing the OS is kinda bad. p.s. I don't like those kind of guys in general. :D

However there could be an alternative that could solve few of the problem inherent to OS - Artillery Strike. Guy/or guys in actual artillery vehicles would have to wait for someone to call-in a strike and designate the location with laser and only then aim and fire at the target (if the person designating the spot dies before that they get into the position they couldn't fire anymore). This would solve the timer problem as well as the abuse by the newbs that can happen with OS. Also it would solve the problem with artillery since it could be countered by killing the guy designating the location. What do you think?

[Kran De Loy]

What if instead of having a cool down timer, the OS had a recharge timer.

You fire it off, and then it takes like 5 hours to charge back up. The catch would be that it would only continue charging as long as you met some certain criteria. Otherwise the recharge progress would be paused until you started actively meeting the criteria to charge it again.

Criteria could be something like:

- Earn 1000(?)xp per hour, to prove you are playing, not just idling
- Have at least one of the missions you give out per hour be successfully completed, to prove you're at the very least pretending to lead.
- You must be carrying the command tool (assuming such a thing exists in PS2), or else the recharge progress is paused.

At least it may cut down on the spam a little. Having it on a cool down timer just encourages you to use it ASAP to get some free kills so that it can recharge sooner so that you can get even more free kills. If you actually had to put some work into recharging it, you may end up being more interested in either keeping it in reserve, or not even bothering with the effort of recharging it.

What ever the criteria ended up being, it should be made so that it's relatively easy and painless (albeit time consuming) for an active leader to recharge their OS, while it should be annoying and a major grind for non leaders to try to charge one up.

Hey, that's a great idea!

I agree however:

In a game like Planetside where all the roles are filled with real live players I find that breaking that element by introducing the "invisible men in the sky" firing the OS is kinda bad. p.s. I don't like those kind of guys in general. :D

However there could be an alternative that could solve few of the problem inherent to OS - Artillery Strike. Guy/or guys in actual artillery vehicles would have to wait for someone to call-in a strike and designate the location with laser and only then aim and fire at the target (if the person designating the spot dies before that they get into the position they couldn't fire anymore). This would solve the timer problem as well as the abuse by the newbs that can happen with OS. Also it would solve the problem with artillery since it could be countered by killing the guy designating the location. What do you think?

It would suck to be the guy stuck in the Arty trucks.

[Xaine]

We're not sure how OS will work yet.

Matt said they had a plan for them, but haven't spoken about it yet.

I think there will be something more to it than just certing it.

Maybe something like the most effective commander(s), based on mission system success from the previous week or something.

[Duddy]

I think there will be something more to it than just certing it.

Maybe something like the most effective commander(s), based on mission system success from the previous week or something.

Honestly, with the new cert system I think it would be ill advised for it to be available to individual. In fact I am pretty certain it won't be.

As such I think that it is going to become an outfit "ability" instead that uses outfit resources (if such a thing exists) and also has a timer. This prevents everyone getting one and it also limits how many can potentially come down at any time.

Whilst you could argue you could have lots of smaller outfits to get more of them, if it is based off of an outfit resource having a smaller outfit would make it harder to earn enough to use one.

On the other side, a larger outfit wouldn't get you more because it would also be on a timer.

I sincerely hope the go for such an implementation, but more so I hope they add additional "abilites" outside of the OS to be used on such a system.

[Sledgecrushr]

My idea for orbital strikes, first off you would have to buy the ps2 orbital strike treadmill which would connect to your computer. Then to charge the orbital strike the person on the treadmill would have to run an average of six miles an hour for one hour to charge the orbital strike. And then the charge guy would be allowed to hit his iwin button and kill peeps ezmode in game.

[Immigrant]

My idea for orbital strikes, first off you would have to buy the ps2 orbital strike treadmill which would connect to your computer. Then to charge the orbital strike the person on the treadmill would have to run an average of six miles an hour for one hour to charge the orbital strike. And then the charge guy would be allowed to hit his iwin button and kill peeps ezmode in game.

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

[Immigrant]

Hey, that's a great idea!

It would suck to be the guy stuck in the Arty trucks.

Small price to pay for free kills from far away; I would do it. Anyway if well coordinated with the guys on the frontline it shouldn't be that boring.

Anyway it's the only way I can think of to prevent spamming these kind of strikes. No matter how long it takes to charge up or what requirements are need people will stock them up (just 20 OS in a row will be more that enough to wipe everything out) and then we would see chaos unleashed every time before the major attack what would render base defenses like mines, deployable covers and turrets useless.

[Hypevosa]

I'd say a 1/continent/day limit would be good. Give people a reason to travel and all that.

[Gandhi]

Here's another idea. OS satellites have a limited number of uses, they have to be replaced after being fired X times. To replace one a special mission appears in the mission system, people who are certed for OS can pick up this mission which requires them to supply Y resources. After Z total resources are gathered from W players a new satellite is launched and each player who filled his "resource quota" is given an OS to use.

This makes it easy for SOE to influence the number of OS's on the battlefield simply by changing the availability of the missions.

[Immigrant]

I'd say a 1/continent/day limit would be good. Give people a reason to travel and all that.

First of all that could mean that zerg people could waste strikes on useless objectives and take them away from those who coordinate actions where they would truly matter. Second this would encourage empire hopping to waste enemies strikes to reach that limit and prevent them from using OSs.

Here's another idea. OS satellites have a limited number of uses, they have to be replaced after being fired X times. To replace one a special mission appears in the mission system, people who are certed for OS can pick up this mission which requires them to supply Y resources. After Z total resources are gathered from W players a new satellite is launched and each player who filled his "resource quota" is given an OS to use.

This makes it easy for SOE to influence the number of OS's on the battlefield simply by changing the availability of the missions.

This sounds good to me.

[Hamma]

Orbital Strikes were on the agenda in our community interview with Higby. Should be up late tomorrow.

[IMMentat]

More info is always good. :love:

I have an idea on how to balance an OS.

Anyone within a squad, including the leader (or players with special permission from the leader) can mark a location by applying a targeting laser, lobbing a destroyable GPS sticky? "grenade" or use themselves as ground-zero. Sacrifice will only work on live characters who must remain stationary and visible for 3-5 seconds before the OS could be centered on their location after which they can move away without disrupting the marker. Only 2-3 markers should be plantable at a time per squad.

The leader of a squad of 3 active players minimum (2 active spare accounts are not common) with whatever leadership cert is required to call in the OS would then choose one a marker to attack. At this point the #spotlight of doom# should show up for friendlies warning them that someone intends to "nuke" the area. The OS can then be triggered and

Each 100 (or whatever) meter area can only take 2 OS' per 3-10 minutes and the entire squad should be unable to call in another OS for a minimum of 1 hour regardless of who called it in.
Maybe have a default re-use of 2-3 hours with reductions to recast based on having more players in the squad, having other players in-squad with the OS certification and for avoiding friendly fire.

To encourage more tactical use, players killed by OS should reward zero XP and should not contribute to the callers K/D ratio.

[Warborn]

Yeah, I have to say I'm surprised at the depth of anti-OS feeling. Maybe because I played in an era when they were still something special rather than a regular occurrence on the battlefield.

I played from Planetside 1 from beta through to a few months after BFRs came out. I think I've seen the spectrum. Even when orbital strikes were rare I thought they were stupid. Why should someone be able to wipe out the hard work of some AMS driver who got his AMS to a base, setup CE, and actively defended it? In what circumstances is it ever okay for one player to literally push a button and kill people via an intangible thing that nobody can defend against? This isn't about people not understanding orbital strikes because they aren't Ye Olde Tyme veterans of Planetside 1. It's people seeing a bad, stupid gameplay gimmick for what it is.

Although, that said, they kind of made a certain sense in PS1. In that game bases with a proper attack going on would have numerous AMSs setup all around the area, plus the tower. Repelling an attack basically didn't happen, you just held on, but rarely you could eliminate all enemy spawns, sometimes using orbital strikes coordinated with tower drops. So in a very cheap way they did kinda address an issue with PS1. But it was a band-aid for a bullet wound. The real issue was that attackers essentially did not lose an attack, it just took hours and hours sometimes. So the ideal solution is to make combat naturally not so stagnant without resorting to stuff that just sucks in every other circumstance.

[Purple]

Orbital Strikes were on the agenda in our community interview with Higby. Should be up late tomorrow.

late like 11am or 11pm?

[Hamma]

Not sure yet :p

[Graywolves]

Not sure yet :p

I saw you/jenny playing a VS.


If you know what's good for your reputation in the Terran Republic, you'll upload that ASAP!!!! #Blackmail



I like the OS, I just think it gets rediculous when you have 5 of them consecutively.


One of the things that made me angry in MAG was that when I did get leadership I had to sit and spam the button for a strategic asset before any of the other leaders did or else my squad would have to struggle a little more even longer. So I'm not interested in an Empire-wide cooldown.


We'll find up what's going on with the OS tomorrow, I presume.

[Hamma]

:lol:

I wanted to play TR - but it was an NC VS playtest :(

[SixShooter]

My vote is no on orbital strikes.

This.

I think that there will already be more than enough ways to kill/be killed.

[Mechzz]

I played from Planetside 1 from beta through to a few months after BFRs came out. I think I've seen the spectrum. Even when orbital strikes were rare I thought they were stupid. Why should someone be able to wipe out the hard work of some AMS driver who got his AMS to a base, setup CE, and actively defended it? In what circumstances is it ever okay for one player to literally push a button and kill people via an intangible thing that nobody can defend against? This isn't about people not understanding orbital strikes because they aren't Ye Olde Tyme veterans of Planetside 1. It's people seeing a bad, stupid gameplay gimmick for what it is.

Although, that said, they kind of made a certain sense in PS1. In that game bases with a proper attack going on would have numerous AMSs setup all around the area, plus the tower. Repelling an attack basically didn't happen, you just held on, but rarely you could eliminate all enemy spawns, sometimes using orbital strikes coordinated with tower drops. So in a very cheap way they did kinda address an issue with PS1. But it was a band-aid for a bullet wound. The real issue was that attackers essentially did not lose an attack, it just took hours and hours sometimes. So the ideal solution is to make combat naturally not so stagnant without resorting to stuff that just sucks in every other circumstance.

That makes sense Warborn, I even post against the idea of "I win" weapons myself. I think the reason the OS doesn't inspire similar thoughts is that it had a local, short-term effect and if I was quick or lucky I could run away. Also, the loss of one AMS wasn't the end of the world when pops were high. Sometimes it gave me the ability to deploy 1 of the 4 or 5 that were standing about unable to deploy due to the number of deployed units :)

[ZeroOneZero]

OS weren't that bad in PS1. I don't think they will be a problem in PS2, seeing how the maps are larger and battles will be widespread. OS's will keep you on your toes. Only stationary targets or slow moving targets are vulnerable to OS's. They are fairly predictable as well. *Ohh look! 100+ ppl in one place!! I smell an OS coming!* seriously ppl, they aren't that bad.

[Aaramus]

How about reducing the amount of damage that the OS does? From what I've read in this thread they seem to be incredibly powerful. Obviously they wouldn't be seen as useful if they were nerfed into the ground, but perhaps they should be made as more of an artillery bombardment that is used to cause damage but also prevent infantry/tank movements near a base.

Also maybe make them be high end rewards for Outfits that perform well by completing key missions.

[kadrin]

Didn't read the whole thread so forgive me if this was mentioned.

Why not have the cost of the OS scale with resources available? Say it costs 500 whatever normally, but as you play and start acquiring a nice stockpile of that particular resource, the cost of the OS increases as well. Maybe when you have 3,000 of that resource the cost is now upped to 2,000. (Throwing numbers out for idea, ignore them, they can easily be balanced later).

So no matter how many resources you have, it is still a significant investment on the part of the player to call one down.

Just a thought, tear it apart please.

[Marinealver]

What there to be annoyed about, just about every 10 minuets someone OS cools down and can hit the nearest enemy vehicle pad and kill the line of people waiting for vehicles.

Well anyways to be honest I wish it was more like a laze pointer instead of a wp tracking system.

Also I wouldn't mind if there were some logistical support needed for Orbital Strikes like have your empire get an OS satelite in orbit.

[Soothsayer]

make it a 25 frag killstreak reward.

I think that most people will generally be okay with that.



Ofc joking and knowing full well the reaction that this will get, stating this so that said reaction is not necessary. :)


Really, it's not that big of a deal to me whether or not Orbital Strikes are in. On the one hand they are an iconic thing from the original planetside, the degree to which depends on when you played planetside in, but on the other hand, they are so prolific now that the significance of the orbital strike is almost entirely diminished.

Epic things become less epic the more common they are. Subsequent epic things have to raise the bar. There's this whole economy when it comes to creating epic experiences that the gaming industry doesn't fully understand yet.

[Vetto]

make it a 25 frag killstreak reward.

Sorry but no.. that just way to much like CoD for me.

[Soothsayer]

Sorry but no.. that just way to much like CoD for me.


Awesome.

[Malorn]

From today's interview with Matt the concept of the OS is fundamentally different in PS2.

My takeaway summary from Matt's interview with Hamma

1) It's a tradeoff. You have to choose whether you want artillery support (which is what the OS is), or other ordinance like mines, C4, possibly grenades. This is very similar to BFBC2 where as a recon class you had to choose between mortar strike and C4.

2) There's different configurations. You could have small strikes or large strikes, long strikes or short strikes. Like all things this too will have tradeoffs and affect cooldown & cost.

3) It has a cooldown. You won't be able to spam it. Cooldown will vary based on the configuration you want to run. If you want a small strike like BFBC2's mortars then you might be able to do those reasonably frequently but they aren't anywhere near the type of OS from PS1. If you want a big nasty OS like PS1 you can expect it to have a long cooldown.

4) It has a resource cost. Like grenades and other AoE weapons you will have to pay resources if you want to use an orbital strike. Like cooldown the cost will vary with configuration with the bigger OS's being more expensive.

5) Like any other weapon you will have to cert it to get all of the options.


It all makes sense as a great way to have them but balance them. BFBC2 had a great example of how to have orbital strikes, even frequent ones, without being super-OP or have it ridiculous with everyone having them. Potentially everyone could have them but if it gets out of control they can easily up the resource cost and/or the cooldowns.