Galaxy, auto-repairing in mid air ( 00:30 ) [Archive]

Stardouser

2012-05-30, 10:41 AM

Vehicle health regen is not acceptable and is one of the problems of BF3.

If they want to give vehicles a limited use repair pack that's one thing, but constant vehicle health regen is a no.

Is there any chance that this is the Nanite Repair System customization and not vehicle health regen? (Not that a simple customization giving you permanent vehicle regen is right, either)

Rbstr

2012-05-30, 10:42 AM

It probably has the vehicle repair mod on it which requires you to not have an ejection seat, last we saw.
There are other limitations, like it only activates 15 sec or something after the vehicle was last shot.

Turdicus

2012-05-30, 10:45 AM

The auto regen should be balanced eventually since it removes other useful features of the plane that would normally keep you alive. Besides I very seriously doubt that is the speed of regen the gal will have on release, or beta, or whatever

Duddy

2012-05-30, 10:45 AM

Biohazard

2012-05-30, 10:45 AM

It probably has the vehicle repair mod on it which requires you to not have an ejection seat, last we saw.

We saw it in the TotalBiscuit liberator video. He would have had to give up flares for it, sounds fine to me.

The Janitor

2012-05-30, 10:45 AM

It's only a problem in BF3 because there are so few vehicles. Someone in a jet can go fly around the edge of the map for a minute to repair. Do you really think that's going to be the case in this game? I certainly don't! The sky is going to be so full of death, you're not going to be able to get out of combat fast enough to find somewhere to hide!

The health regen seems like a good idea when used as in this video: A mountain jumps out in front of your Gal, and try as you might, you just can't avoid it slapping your plane! Curse those mobile mountains! So on the way to your target, outside of combat, the auto-repair makes up for your little encounter with a wall. I don't see much of a problem here.

Nick

2012-05-30, 10:47 AM

Once upon a time, in this game called Planetside (not sure if you've heard of it before), there was a time where you actually had to do stuff. Manually.

There have been SO many different new mechanics to get us back into the action faster for Planetside 2. While some of them are indeed nice and welcomed, the devs have clearly gone overboard in the copying of every single thing BF3 did.

NEWS FLASH: BF3 is dying. So once all the BF3 tards leave Planetside 2 after 6 months, you'll have no one left. All of the original Planetside fans will be long gone due to the over excess of "bells and whistles" from modern FPS games no one asked for.

MrBloodworth

2012-05-30, 10:48 AM

I don't see much of a problem given what we saw there:

Seems to be about 10-15 secs before it kicks in after damage
Rate of repair seems around, I think just a little under, 1%/second (hard to verify this)
In order to have it they have to give up some other form of utility

Lets not blow it out of proportion when it currently looks to be a reasonable implementation.

Except for the fact its yet another erosion of team play.

Landing your Gal, and having an engineer repair, or landing stationary on a air pad with Repair active, it is a Planetside staple experience. There is Zero reason to add this, other to make the game even more "Playing alone, together" like session based games.

Figment

2012-05-30, 10:51 AM

Good chance this is the module you could install. It was already featured (but not applied) in one of TBs earlier videos while he was customizing one of the units and a bunch of different features were shown to fill in some slots (it could be that or radar, for instance).

I agree with Stadouser, armour repair to me is a no-no. I already don't like infantry shields, which to me is just a bit better than CoD healing (shield would be full health bar in that case, now it's about half depending on suit it seems).

Med kits is one thing, repair kits were a bit much, for a vehicle, it's potentially even more powerful.

Even if it would cost a lot of a player's resources every time you use it or whatever, it wouldn't be that fun to fight, since the opponent does not "see this". The opponent just sees a magical partial "reset".

It is a slowish pace, but still quite fast. Now if it wasn't clearly the vehicle's own hit points, it could have been the AMP shield (charged only if you held an AMP station and only within connected friendly SOIs). AMP shield... I don't think it was though. Plus, then it was a minor health advantage, regen is more like infinite if managed well.

Question: Would we mind if it was automatic and as slow as repairing a vehicle manually while stationary? Could be they see it as a way to reduce downtime? I'd say yes, people would mind, mostly because a repairing person can be shot more easily if they have to get out and grab a non-lethal weapon and can't use vehicle weapons at the same time. There's some significant differences with those, let alone if you can even heal while driving.

kaffis

2012-05-30, 10:52 AM

I'm not bothered. Auto-repair means no countermeasures when TotalBiscuit was playing.

MrBloodworth

2012-05-30, 10:53 AM

If he had to at least land, it would be different.

Rbstr

2012-05-30, 10:55 AM

We saw it in the TotalBiscuit liberator video. He would have had to give up flares for it, sounds fine to me.

Ah, yeah, flares, not ejection seat. My bad.

FastAndFree

2012-05-30, 10:56 AM

Nick

2012-05-30, 10:56 AM

So how much does the cert cost that plays the game for me? I thought this was Planetside 2, not Battlefield Auraxis.

MrBloodworth

2012-05-30, 10:57 AM

Aircraft self repair drama is so last week.

A better question is, what other optional modules does the galaxy have? Radars wouldn't be of much use on it.
What do you have to give up to get self-repair?

Engineers, and having to land, find a good spot, and cover during repair. Planetside Staple experiences.

Bags

2012-05-30, 10:57 AM

Look at it this way. They give something up for it.

My galaxy might have flares, which help me survive longer, while theirs has self repair, which takes a while to kick in and replaces an engineer. All I have to do while using flares is have an engineer on board, and land, and by utilizing teamwork my galaxy is better.

It's not fast and it doesn't appear to work until after combat.

Team work is still king.

Duddy

2012-05-30, 10:59 AM

Except for the fact its yet another erosion of team play.

Landing your Gal, and having an engineer repair, or landing stationary on a air pad with Repair active, it is a Planetside staple experience. There is Zero reason to add this, other to make the game even more "Playing alone, together" like session based games.

I'm sorry but I don't believe this to be any erosion of what existed prior.

If we were to take the context of PS1, how many people hung around in a galaxy after the drop? How many people hung around to look after an AMS after spawning?

Usually it was only either the direct driver/crew or those whom you were working with actively anyway. I suspect that in PS2 the same will apply.

Also, why are we now calling activities that define downtime as a staple PlanetSide experience?

MrBloodworth

2012-05-30, 11:03 AM

Also, why are we now calling activities that define downtime as a staple PlanetSide experience?

Its not downtime, its part of the game play to need to fall back, repair and resupply, under threat. This is a WAR game, not a session based shooter.

Bags

2012-05-30, 11:04 AM

Its not downtime, its part of the game play to need to fall back, repair and resupply, under threat. This is a WAR game, not a session based shooter.

Since the repair is timer based and doesn't work in combat, doesn't this force you to fall back and repair? You won't exactly get very much auto repair flying around the combat zone.

And if you've already flown away you might as well land and repair manually. I can't see many people taking this over flares.

Figment

2012-05-30, 11:06 AM

Down time determines the frequency with which you fight enemies. If you can't kill them, at least you created downtime for them, meaning some breathing space for you.

Removing downtime from a zerg's players doesn't make them easier to handle by creating mini-Divide and Conquer and attrition. Plus it provided a chance to take out an enemy by more than blowing them up: by taking out the occupants. It simplifies the game more towards action and large scale combat (which strongly affects high pop ratio difference balance mostly).

Stardouser

2012-05-30, 11:07 AM

Since the repair is timer based and doesn't work in combat, doesn't this force you to fall back and repair? You won't exactly get very much auto repair flying around the combat zone.

Actually, it's a matter of time. People who run around without an engineer to repair them faster might actually fly around for 5 minutes. This hurts your team if it's not an enemy doing it. That means you're basically balancing the slowness of the regen against the desire of people to get back into the fight sooner. KDR-focused players(who are also non-teamwork and thus don't have an engineer handy) will wait the 5 minutes rather than risk it.

Now, are repair pads handy, will they fly back to them instead of flying around? Maybe.

Let me be fair though, as slow as it is, it's not the end of the world. That doesn't mean it doesn't merit a demerit - lol.

Bags

2012-05-30, 11:08 AM

A KDR focused player won't be flying a galaxy, that's for sure.

If people want to be morons and fly around repairing slow as molasses instead of bringing ONE engineer, that's their problem.

FastAndFree

2012-05-30, 11:09 AM

I can see this being more useful on a deployed galaxy, then again if it is in a combat zone it will likely have gunners who might just as well be engineers

Nick

2012-05-30, 11:09 AM

Its not downtime, its part of the game play to need to fall back, repair and resupply, under threat. This is a WAR game, not a session based shooter.

This pretty much sums up my concerns. I've welcomed many of the new mechanics to ease downtime, but now this has become a slippery slope. Getting you in the battle faster = fine. But stuff like this is just getting to be too much.

Figment

2012-05-30, 11:10 AM

Since the repair is timer based and doesn't work in combat, doesn't this force you to fall back and repair? You won't exactly get very much auto repair flying around the combat zone.

And if you've already flown away you might as well land and repair manually. I can't see many people taking this over flares.

Depends on how fast the repair is though (BFR shield regen was fast, AMP very slow).

If you say it's not going to be used a lot, then there must be better alternatives for customization. In that case, it'd be like the regeneration implant: not many would pick it over personal shield, audio amplifier, enhanced targeting, second wind, surge and sensor shield.

Bags

2012-05-30, 11:11 AM

This pretty much sums up my concerns. I welcome many of the new mechanics that reduce downtime, but now this has become is a slippery slope. Getting you in the battle faster = fine. But stuff like this is just getting to be too much.

How does this reduce down time? As long as landing and repairing with one engineer is faster or equivalent, I don't see an issue.

It isn't a free utility, you give up like flares or radar or ejection seat to use this.

Stardouser

2012-05-30, 11:11 AM

A KDR focused player won't be flying a galaxy, that's for sure.

If people want to be morons and fly around repairing slow as molasses instead of bringing ONE engineer, that's their problem.

This video showed a Galaxy, but KDR players might fly a Reaver or Mosquito though. And for single crew aircraft, the pilot can't stay inside and be ready to take off at any moment. Didn't they say they were considering a brief engine start up sequence?

Bags

2012-05-30, 11:13 AM

This video showed a Galaxy, but KDR players might fly a Reaver or Mosquito though. And for single crew aircraft, the pilot can't stay inside and be ready to take off at any moment. Didn't they say they were considering a brief engine start up sequence?

I haven't heard of them say that. It's what people want, but the devs have been fairly quiet about that, AFAIK.

As of the footage we've seen, you can hop in and be airborne and zipping away in seconds. If that changes the concern for this might be slightly greater, but I doubt it.

I never died repairing a reaver of mine in PS1 dunno if that would change with so many more players.

Sledgecrushr

2012-05-30, 11:18 AM

Other than when tb bumped into a wall early in the flight, the regen mod really didnt do anything for him. Just based off of the video I consider this a combat non factor.

Marinealver

2012-05-30, 11:49 AM

metziih

2012-05-30, 11:57 AM

So basically planetside 2 is battlefield 3 copy? Hurray.

MrBloodworth

2012-05-30, 11:59 AM

I think the one thing about Planetside is that it forces people to ask for help. Such as a MAX needing repairs. All this stuff I see is making me wonder if they are promoting teamwork or eliminating it to try and be just like the current FPS leaders.

This. Reliance on others for things is not a bad word. It doesn't need to be excessive, but it also does not need to be removed entirely to support the goals they are going for.

FastAndFree

2012-05-30, 12:00 PM

So basically planetside 2 is battlefield 3 copy? Hurray.

Been there heard that no it's not we don't know wait until beta does BF3 have all this cool stuff?

Nick

2012-05-30, 12:02 PM

So basically planetside 2 is battlefield 3 copy? Hurray.
Pretty much. Also Battlefield: Bad Company 2 (in regards to Orbital Strikes in Hamma's Higby interview)

NCLynx

2012-05-30, 12:05 PM

I see we have a lot of people who weren't paying attention during the TB Night Ops video. It's shown in that video as well that there's an addon you can choose that will repair your vehicle in the air. I don't think it was said if it's a limited amount or constant.

With that said I don't like mid-air repair either, but if it's at the cost of an addon slot and it's limited (runs on an ammo of some sort, or simply can't run forever) I'm fine with it.

Reapter

2012-05-30, 12:11 PM

I think this is a non issue, if you want to get to combat even quicker grab an engineer and self repair. Basically, it is a side grade that can get you killed more then help in some situations. Flares add instant health to the situation while this adds nothing except to longevity while an engineer can do the same thing but probably better.

Stardouser

2012-05-30, 12:17 PM

wraithverge

2012-05-30, 12:21 PM

If you notice it takes 15 seconds to kick in and more then 15 seconds to repair. This is SLOW. If you manage to get away for this long, it's slower then engies hopping out with glue guns, sounds like a good feature to me. This will not affect a dogfight.

Honestly I'd use it just to correct the few times I clip someone at an ammo dispenser or wing a tree while trying to get back to the fight.

Reapter

2012-05-30, 12:26 PM

If it works like the equivalent BF3 customization, it probably runs forever. If it were ammo-based I'd be fine with that too.

If restocking its ammo takes to long and they don't have an engi, most people will probably just wreck the thing into the floor and buy a new one if its timer is up. But if its limited, then flares should be limited also.

Its already the worse in combat option and to nerf it more since some people have a problem with the idea of not having an engineer required at all times when they have safely made it out of combat for a period of time on hand for a trade off seems pointless. Pretty much its the equivalent for asking for required class compositions rather then diversity. Not everyone likes playing repair bot for a ship.

Stardouser

2012-05-30, 12:27 PM

If restocking its ammo takes to long and they don't have an engi, most people will probably just wreck the thing into the floor and buy a new one if its timer is up. But if its limited, then flares should be limited also.

Its already the worse in combat option and to nerf it more since some people have a problem with the idea of not having an engineer required at all times when they have safely made it out of combat for a period of time on hand for a trade off seems pointless. Pretty much its the equivalent for asking for required class compositions rather then diversity.

Aren't they?

Meecrob

2012-05-30, 12:30 PM

I personnaly like auto repair. It reduces downtime. Without auto repair it was sometimes a cost benifit calculation between repairing or just dieing. As in flying away to a safespot ... getting out ... repairing usually takes longer than just bailing and respawning. Wich will happen without auto repair. And to people saying its not realistic, i say "nanites". Those little robots auto regen.

On a related note: people really are gonna have to accept that PS2 will be heavily influenced by Battlefield 3. Im tired of people making excuses for this fact. Battlefield 3 mostly is a good game.... period. It has its flaws and PS2 i think cuts those out pretty effectivly.

Bags

2012-05-30, 12:34 PM

>planetside dev team: offers a CHOICE that reduces teamwork, while being worse than teamwork
>Forum response: OH GOD ALL TEAMWORK IS GONE FOREVER IT'S BATTLEFIELD3SIDE OF DUTY OH NOES

MrBloodworth

2012-05-30, 12:37 PM

Bags

2012-05-30, 12:37 PM

That's pretty much what page 3 was.

Reapter

2012-05-30, 12:39 PM

Aren't they?

Not sure if they are or if they are on a timed cooldown with unlimited use. In Total Biscuits Get in my Liberator there is no number indicator anywhere for it nor was it mentioned but its possibly in another video. I personally would prefer unlimited with timer. If you have a reference that would work. Have to remember not every person has watched each and every video posted about ps2 to full length which is why I used the word if.

You are not helping. Stop it.

Got to admit he has a minor point with some people and their all or nothing approach.

xIIDeAdLyIIx

2012-05-30, 12:44 PM

I think it should be the case that the regeneration will go much much slower than a guy repairing it.

A 10 man TEAM should always have an advantage over a 10 man group of individuals. (TEIAM)

Meecrob

2012-05-30, 12:45 PM

>planetside dev team: offers a CHOICE that reduces teamwork, while being worse than teamwork
>Forum response: OH GOD ALL TEAMWORK IS GONE FOREVER IT'S BATTLEFIELD3SIDE OF DUTY OH NOES

Agreed, this has got to stop. Have a pony for your trouble :D.

http://files.sharenator.com/17el_bronies-s625x448-152476-580.jpg

MrBloodworth

2012-05-30, 12:47 PM

Got to admit he has a minor point with some people and their all or nothing approach.

The "Its copy pasta BF3" is bullshit, but that does not constitute saying the entire 3ED page is that. That's not helping.

Redshift

2012-05-30, 12:50 PM

You give up flares for it, seems fine to me.

If you take a glue gun with you or do some proper teamwork you can keep flares instead of this, it's hardly game breaking....

Xyntech

2012-05-30, 12:50 PM

If Battlefield 3 had 2000 players and Galaxies and 3 sides and MAXes/Infiltrators/Jump Packers, along with all of those other little things that most decidedly contribute to Planetside 2 being unique, I'd be more interested in the comparison.

There is still value in speculation, along with value in comparing what has or hasn't worked in other games, but don't forget that this all has to work together in the bigger picture. A picture that we won't really be able to understand until we get our hands on it in beta.

I can buy the argument that auto-repairing vehicles < manually repairing vehicles as a viable concern, but I can't buy that it will in any way break the game.

There aren't exactly a lot of successful MMOFPS's to compare this thing to. Even the first Planetside, which got a lot of things right, was essentially a failure (for multiple, often unrelated reasons). I myself am perfectly happy to see PS2 trying to rock the boat and change a lot of the little things from Planetside, while keeping the larger more critical and unique features. Planetside was not some work of perfection that PS2 should arbitrarily be held up to.

As long as auto-repair is properly limited, I'm okay with it. It actually makes more sense in Planetside than it does in BF3, what with nanites and all, not that realism should come ahead of gameplay but still.

JPalmer

2012-05-30, 12:50 PM

Like someone else said. The Galaxy probably has some cool stuff that you have to pass on to use this feature. This is also the case with other aircraft. It does not even kick in until no damage is taken for 15 seconds. Which for a combat zone is really hard to do. So to have it kick in you have to escape for a little and have to probably run to a safe base or tower for protection. Sound familiar?

I am going to be a Galaxy Pilot and it sounds like it is going to have lots of cool features. I for one am not going to past one up when I can just have a engineer from a outfit or squad inside. Or hell be a engineer myself.

CutterJohn

2012-05-30, 12:53 PM

Except for the fact its yet another erosion of team play.

What team play?

You'd:

1. Land and heal it yourself.
2. Heal it at an air tower.
3. Heal it at a pad if you had DS bennies.
4. Go down with the ship because you were bound at the DS center and would just go grab a new one.

Sure, there might be a lodestar near, but thats about it as far as teamplay goes.

This is fine. You have to give up other defenses/utility for the capability.

Coreldan

2012-05-30, 01:28 PM

Not really worried. The repair most likely won't keep you alive under heavy fire, more like repairing little scratches while passing lightly armed locations.

If thinked from BF3 perspective.. well.. lets just say I wouldnt give up the flares for a slow autorepair.

raidyr

2012-05-30, 01:40 PM

The rate of repair was so slow that I didn't even notice it at first.

Doesn't seem like that much of a problem, though I'm sure beta with hundreds of players in a single battle will prove how effective it is and how much "teamwork" it kills.

Lonehunter

2012-05-30, 01:45 PM

Since I'm pretty sure it's some kind of attachment or perk, no problem with it.

Attackmack

2012-05-30, 02:10 PM

dachlatte

2012-05-30, 02:27 PM

alpha? chill?

Aaramus

2012-05-30, 02:39 PM

I doubt anybody will even live long enough for the auto-repair to even kick in once they've been targeted.

Glad they've made it a choice though as I'd rather have flares.

DanNC

2012-05-30, 02:42 PM

I doubt anybody will even live long enough for the auto-repair to even kick in once they've been targeted.

Auto repair doesn't bother me much in BF3 because of that. Most of the time it kicks in I'm already out of combat and getting ready to repair manually anyway.

Aaramus

2012-05-30, 02:46 PM

Auto repair doesn't bother me much in BF3 because of that. Most of the time it kicks in I'm already out of combat and getting ready to repair manually anyway.

Exactly and it's likely that you're not even in combat during either form of reparing seeing as you'll probably running away to a safe place to heal anyway.

Stardouser

2012-05-30, 02:52 PM

Auto repair doesn't bother me much in BF3 because of that. Most of the time it kicks in I'm already out of combat and getting ready to repair manually anyway.

That's because in Battlefield there are a limited number of vehicles to chase you down. There's usually 2 tanks, 2 jets, an attack chopper and maybe 1 APC or something per 32 players. The chances of running away from one threat and into another are low, especially since you can flee back to your main base. Also, vehicle health regen means you can stay inside your tank and wait, rather than risk being sniped.

KTNApollo

2012-05-30, 02:58 PM

Auto-repairing is a trade-off for Flares and Ejection seat for the Pilot..I think it's fine. It's not like it's an insane amount.

proxykalevra

2012-05-30, 04:20 PM

actually the ejection seat is a trade off for ground vehicle or aircraft radar mods....

auto repair is in the mod slot with flares and radar jammer(not sure how exactly this will work you can still be spotted "manually")

i think its going to be supper broke when you get a swarm of air cav (scythes for us vs) all topping off their health while doing strafing runs... i think lock on weps are mostly going to be air to air because if i'm on the ground i would prefer to fling flak at aircraft.

Bags

2012-05-30, 04:29 PM

Wtf...autorepair? Even as a addon i dont like it.

No vehics or players should EVER autorepair/autoheal. Force some goddamn thoughtfulness and tactic in a game for once...

For me, this can be a gamebreaker :(
And i really wanna like this game...

Sigh...

Could you throw a few more buzzwords into that post? I think you left out "teamwork killer" and "no skill" and "dumbing down".

Seriously, please make an actual argument when posting.

i think its going to be supper broke when you get a swarm of air cav (scythes for us vs) all topping off their health while doing strafing runs... i think lock on weps are mostly going to be air to air because if i'm on the ground i would prefer to fling flak at aircraft.

If they're doing strafing runs and no one is damaging them you are in trouble, auto repair or not.

Nick

2012-05-30, 04:31 PM

alpha? chill?

This forum is for discussing Planetside 2, not just circle jerking about how Planetside 2 is going to be the best game ever in a fit of blind fanboyism while spouting lines like "WAIT FOR BETA" and "THE GAMES IN ALPHA GUYZ LOL."

Take your useless one line dribble elsewhere.

While I'm in this thread again, just something to think about. With this mod, no one will ever have to return to base. No one will ever have to find a safe place to land/stop and repair. Stop dumbing down this game.

KTNApollo

2012-05-30, 04:35 PM

While I'm in this thread again, just something to think about. With this mod, no one will ever have to return to base. No one will ever have to find a safe place to land/stop and repair. Stop dumbing down this game.

Yeah, they'll just fly around for 5 minutes waiting for that slow-ass regen to heal them to full. Makes sense.

Bags

2012-05-30, 04:35 PM

Yeah, they'll just fly around for 5 minutes waiting for that slow-ass regen to heal them to full. Makes sense.

Seems legit. I know I'd never use this. I'd much rather have flares to prevent taking damage than this crap.

xIIDeAdLyIIx

2012-05-30, 04:48 PM

This forum is for discussing Planetside 2, not just circle jerking about how Planetside 2 is going to be the best game ever in a fit of blind fanboyism while spouting lines like "WAIT FOR BETA" and "THE GAMES IN ALPHA GUYZ LOL."

Take your useless one line dribble elsewhere.

While I'm in this thread again, just something to think about. With this mod, no one will ever have to return to base. No one will ever have to find a safe place to land/stop and repair. Stop dumbing down this game.

Your posts are all sad, which makes me sad. Go eat some ice cream, be happy.

azoren

2012-05-30, 04:59 PM

Has anyone even considered the fact that you would be forced to play or bring along an engineer if you wanted to repair your vehicle in PS2?
We don't have an open inventory system anymore where anyone can grab a glue gun.

Auto-repair is a defensive tool.
-It requires the player to give up flares or jammers for it.
-It requires the player to take no damage for 10-15 secs before it starts.
-It goes really slow.

Are people just complaining to complain?

Bags

2012-05-30, 05:00 PM

Are people just complaining to complain?

if(differentThanPS1)
someone will complain~

Stardouser

2012-05-30, 05:11 PM

if(differentThanPS1)
someone will complain~

I am not complaining because it's different than PS1, but because I've experienced it in BF3 and disagree with it. Sometimes, people simply recognize that a proposed feature is inappropriate. I've been through this before in BF-land, we didn't want things done the BC2 way in BF3, so people said we were just disagreeing because we wanted a BF2 copy.

Bags

2012-05-30, 05:23 PM

I am not complaining because it's different than PS1, but because I've experienced it in BF3 and disagree with it. Sometimes, people simply recognize that a proposed feature is inappropriate. I've been through this before in BF-land, we didn't want things done the BC2 way in BF3, so people said we were just disagreeing because we wanted a BF2 copy.

What's inappropriate about it? As long as it's worse than the teamwork equivalent (and it looks like it will be) I fail to see an issue.

Stardouser

2012-05-30, 05:26 PM

What's inappropriate about it? As long as it's worse than the teamwork equivalent (and it looks like it will be) I fail to see an issue.

It's automatic.

I do admit that so long as it's ONLY happening from the customization, and not anything else,that's better than BF3.

Though I am also against having to choose between these things. Flares should always be carried, for example, but simply with limited ammunition. But I'm only saying that for the principle of it, I'm aware no one cares.

Figment

2012-05-30, 06:27 PM

if(differentThanPS1)
someone will complain~

if(critiqueOnPS2)
someone will complain~

Bags

2012-05-30, 06:29 PM

if(critiqueOnPS2)
someone will complain~

There's critiquing like you and Stardouser do, and then there's half this thread which is "OH MY GOD THIS IS TERRIBLE IT'S LIKE BF3 SO IT'S TERRIBLE OH MY GOD IT'S NOT PS1".

EVILoHOMER

2012-05-30, 06:42 PM

The one vehicle I'd want regenerating health for is The Galaxy considering it's support and it's an incentive to get people to use it. Considering vehicles look to die really easy in this game and with the amount of people that will be in one battle, we don't want the galaxy being useless.

I've got no problem with regenerating health personally, BF3 has a nice balance of that and repair/healing. I mean your health doesn't regen fast and your vehicles regen even slower, so you still need a Medic or Eng.

That's my stance but I'm a regen health person over med packs in general. Obviously you need to balance it like BF3 has done so well, however I don't want to need someone else to have enjoyment out of the game, I want to just enjoy playing with someone else to enjoy the game. As soon as you start making strict requirements then you end up having the situation like WoW had where you aren't allowed into groups or raids because you are not a certain class, then I'm punished for playing what I like to play.

NewSith

2012-05-30, 06:51 PM

There's critiquing like you and Stardouser do, and then there's half this thread which is "OH MY GOD THIS IS TERRIBLE IT'S LIKE BF3 SO IT'S TERRIBLE OH MY GOD IT'S NOT PS1".

And there I was actually about to read the thread. Is it really all just "OMG we got some BF3 hate stuck in our ass when the product is already almost in beta"?

But on topic though - I for one don't like vehicle auto-repair. It promotes bailing and not caring about the thing you drive. That's a bad thing, in case you don't know. And that's absolutely independent of whether you have it on by default or as a mod option, which it is now.

Bags

2012-05-30, 06:53 PM

And there I was actually about to read the thread. Is it really all just "OMG we got some BF3 hate stuck in our ass when the product is already almost in beta"?

It's not that bad, but there's a lot of it.

Dreamcast

2012-05-30, 07:05 PM

Stardouser

2012-05-30, 07:08 PM

Oh, by the way. Since everyone likes to say "it's Alpha" for the TTK being so low, I'll play devil's advocate in the reverse and remind you all of the possibility that in Beta they could increase the regen BECAUSE it's so uselessly low right now. And then all our complaints would become valid.

So, everyone saying it's OK because it's so low, remember that that's as long as it stays low.

NewSith

2012-05-30, 07:08 PM

Whats the problem?

Seems slow like hell, if a mosquito finds u is gg.

I don't see the difference between getting a cert to repair ur galaxy which will probably require a person to sacrafice something and somebody repairing the galaxy.....Either way ur gonna lose time flying around in circles in case u don't get shot down.

Hell it might be better to get an actual engineer to repair u since it will be faster.

But on topic though - I for one don't like vehicle auto-repair. It promotes bailing and not caring about the thing you drive. That's a bad thing, in case you don't know. And that's absolutely independent of whether you have it on by default or as a mod option, which it is now.

In the state it is now, with autorepairs, you just use it like this:

A) Air-Vehicle
B) Light Assault
C) Afterburner
D) Gogo fighterwhoring, bail when you're screwed, use your jetpack to land safely, keep killing, suicide, repeat.

Mosquito-farming Mk2, improved...

Purple

2012-05-30, 07:12 PM

im going to be taking flairs anyway.

PredatorFour

2012-05-30, 07:21 PM

You gotta remember that every gal you come across in PS 2 wont all be able to auto repair themselves. Its not like BF3 where every fighter/chopper auto reps, you actually have to cert it and sacrifice something for it.

SoNaR

2012-05-30, 07:31 PM

maybe auto-repair is just in alpha???

cellinaire

2012-05-30, 07:40 PM

Kill-cam ? will be removed

Vehicle auto repair? can be easily removed, but have we even tested it? No

(for Nick : clearly you're not the only veteran and player who really want this game to succeed. Right?)

SKYeXile

2012-05-30, 08:07 PM

Wait, slow auto-repairs promote bailing now? Can someone please explain this to me before I say something hideously obnoxious?

this is my face right now:

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110902194602/mlp/images/thumb/a/a4/Rarity_Shocked_E19-W_1.1899.png/640px-Rarity_Shocked_E19-W_1.1899.png

Duddy

2012-05-30, 08:14 PM

Wait, slow auto-repairs promote bailing now? Can someone please explain this to me before I say something hideously obnoxious?

I think it's under the flawed assumption that the repair gives you enough time to bail out before death.

I agree that if anything it does quite the opposite, given how the mechanic appears to work.

Xyntech

2012-05-30, 08:52 PM

Those auto-repairing Galaxies are going to feel pretty darn foolish when they've got a couple dozen rockets locked onto them. If they can survive long enough to get away and auto-repair, they can survive long enough to go land and repair with a glue gun.

If auto-repair ends up being overpowered, then it's a balance issue and needs to be sorted out. If auto-repair is well balanced against the other options that can go in the same slot, then it's an issue of variety, and an issue of not having your panties in a bunch that it's kind of similar to some other game that you may not like.

My reaction would be extremely different if it were always equipped on every vehicle.

Malorn

2012-05-30, 09:45 PM

We don't know what upgrades and utilty items that galaxy had. Slow auto-repair might be one such upgrade it was running. If it was a tradeoff I don't see an issue with it.

Galaxies are big easy targets that are going to get shot at by everything. A little slow auto-repair isn't going to make them unkillable, and having ot get out and top off after every stray bullet or minor ding is rather tedious. It won't stop a relentless attacker from blowing it up as we also saw in the video.

I think people are over-reacting about this thing and it's really something that we can't truly understand until we play the game and see how it fits in. Maybe it works. Maybe it doesn't, but we can't make that determination yet. It doesn't seem like an agregious game breaking feature to me.

Anderz

2012-06-01, 09:36 AM

Judging from the live-cast (http://youtu.be/onvySU5NkFo?t=6m), we can see that auto-repair is a certification tree, both in power (?) and speed in which it repairs.

This worries me. I passionately dislike auto repair. It diminishes the effectiveness and purpose of engineers, and takes out a key tactical element of the game. Speaking from my experience in BF2 and 2142, it required skill and consideration to return to your base and repair your helicopter and jet, and reinforced teamplay within tanks and other ground vehicles.

I really hope, during the Beta, we can be vocal enough to get this "feature" removed.

Stardouser

2012-06-01, 09:50 AM

MrBloodworth

2012-06-01, 09:53 AM

we can see that auto-repair is a certification tree, both in power (?) and speed in which it repairs.

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/000/554/facepalm.jpg

Xyntech

2012-06-01, 10:15 AM

All of those stats (both the base stats and the upgraded stats) can be tweaked. The base idea I'm cool with (deciding if you want auto repair or flairs, etc). The specific stats aren't even really worth talking about until beta where we can not only try them hands on in a battle, but can also actively give additional feedback as changes and tweaks are made.

Speculation and debate is fine and often productive leading up to beta, but some topics have more value than others.

I would agree for example that auto-repair should first and foremost be primarily balanced against it's most upgraded form, not it's base form. If its most upgraded form is overpowered, then the entire thing is overpowered.

MrBloodworth

2012-06-01, 10:21 AM

Its part of the cert tree Xyntech.

Xyntech

2012-06-01, 10:34 AM

Its part of the cert tree Xyntech.

Right, but auto repair is (or was in TB's video) also a module. So while you can upgrade your auto repair, you won't be able to use those upgrades when that module is unequipped, just like you won't be able to use upgraded flares when the flare module isn't equipped.

MrBloodworth

2012-06-01, 10:38 AM

They have power increase, in my Planetside.

At this point, the Auto repair is secondary concern, however its equipped.

Xyntech

2012-06-01, 10:45 AM

They have power increase, in my Planetside.

At this point, the Auto repair is secondary concern, however its equipped.

We already knew they did. +20% max has been their stated intent for a while now.

In PS1, you got implants and certain synergistic effects from some cert combinations. As long as they don't go overboard with it in PS2, as long as it's mostly based on sidegrade weapons and equipment (upgrades being to each of those sidegrades), it should be similar to PS1.

Stew

2012-06-01, 10:47 AM

this isnt a problem in BF3 the problem in BF3 is not the self repair vehicules its thats regular rocket sucks only has (( iron sigth view )) and its really hard to calculate the whole tragectory of your rocket to take them down AAA statics turrets as been remoove and LOck on missiles sucks as well ! These are the major problem whith Bf3 aircrafts and gunship !

Nothing to do with self repair the selfrepair is a Utility slots (( perks )) and you have to trade of others things like smoke screen , flares , Radar , etc.. or others pretty fair utility slots ( perks ) available ! Each ones could be great depending on your plan and gameplay style !

This ability have a trade off their is ONE utility slots so if you choose this one u must make it worth it lol !

Stardouser

2012-06-01, 10:55 AM

Stew

2012-06-01, 10:57 AM

I think it's under the flawed assumption that the repair gives you enough time to bail out before death.

I agree that if anything it does quite the opposite, given how the mechanic appears to work.

I think ejection modes is in utility slots as well ?

Also i have to tell that under fire the (( self repair )) will not be active self repair will start repairing after engagements end !

and a slow self repairs isnt a big deal if you have 4 reavers chasing a single glaxie no matter whats if it as auto repair the engagement will not stop until he go down !

This whole debate is a lost of time in my opinion !

I think we should be concerne about tons of thing others than that !

Stardouser

2012-06-01, 11:01 AM

and a slow self repairs isnt a big deal if you have 4 reavers chasing a single glaxie no matter whats if it as auto repair the engagement will not stop until he go down !

We don't know that it's slow anymore. It was slow in the TB video but now that we saw it can be boosted by certs to be faster/more powerful, it could become a major issue.

Stew

2012-06-01, 11:03 AM

Auto regen is a major problem in BF3. Tanks camp at long range, and simply back out when they take one hit and wait a few seconds for it to be repaired. There are ways that it hurts. With tanks having unlimited ammo, they can play this way and never come down off their mountain camp site.

And while I understand that this is a customization, if it's too powerful, it WILL allow the same uses as BF3's regen.

LOL and whats u do with Tank who just continue to spam 120 mm with 2 ENG repairing in continuous mode lolllllllll

the most viable tactics in BF2 BFBC BFBC2 BF3 as always been the 2 or 3 man crew ENG with repair kits !

In BF3 if ur vehicules get (( disactivated )) its start to burn until you repair it at 100 % if you dont the vehicules will slowly burn up !

Another point is self repair is very slow and i dont even use it because i found it Useless its better to get out of my tank and repair it !

In BF3 gunsoship like black hawk has ENG repairing for the passager seats and make them almost invisible from Ground based players !

The lack of options to destroys aircraft is the problem in BF3 NOT SELF repair !

And anyones who use the BAck off strategie with a tank almost never use self repair ITS slow and useless compare to a Repair kit ;)

JUST SAYING !

Anderz

2012-06-01, 11:03 AM

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/000/554/facepalm.jpg

Look, I've never played PS, so I admit to my ignorance in that regard. But rather than just "facepalm" my comments, how about giving me something constructive so I can understand why I've said something derpish.

Stardouser

2012-06-01, 11:04 AM

And anyones who use the BAck off strategie with a tank almost never use self repair ITS slow and useless compare to a Repair kit ;)

JUST SAYING !

No, the auto repair of vehicles in BF3 is fast. Repair kit may be faster, but auto regen is fast enough that you can just drive away and wait.

Stew

2012-06-01, 11:07 AM

No, the auto repair of vehicles in BF3 is fast. Repair kit may be faster, but auto regen is fast enough that you can just drive away and wait.

LOL

Have you ever play BF3 let me know your Origin battlelog accont and lets play rigth Now in battlefield Ok ?

ill go along with ya and test this out ill record our playtest and put it up on youtube and here Ok ? my battlelog is (( Stew36O )) Ad me

MrBloodworth

2012-06-01, 11:08 AM

Look, I've never played PS, so I admit to my ignorance in that regard. But rather than just "facepalm" my comments, how about giving me something constructive so I can understand why I've said something derpish.

You didn't.

Stew

2012-06-01, 11:13 AM

No, the auto repair of vehicles in BF3 is fast. Repair kit may be faster, but auto regen is fast enough that you can just drive away and wait.

So whats your battlelog accont so we can test this out toghether i cant wait to see the self repair fails most of the time !

I think Self repair is a lost of time in many way it could be good when you dont have a ENG and you need to travers terrain with few vehicules on your path ! But you have to be skills enough to kill them and after thats must be lucky enough to have the time to get the self repair (( active )) and the extra time to replenish !

But if your vehicules got (( desactivated )) your screw whiout a ENG because your vehicules will burn up pretty quick and blow up if you do not repair it at 100 %

(( edit )) Oh yeah its also good enough for me if MANY players loose a cert point and also atheir one and Only (( utility slot )) to put this kind of useless module ;) for me its a good thing less people with soke less people with radar less people whith flares its all good all good :D

Stardouser

2012-06-01, 11:14 AM

LOL

Have you ever play BF3 let me know your Origin battlelog accont and lets play rigth Now in battlefield Ok ?

ill go along with ya and test this out ill record our playtest and put it up on youtube and here Ok ? my battlelog is (( Stew36O )) Ad me

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=xUocD13mcEU#t=116s

It takes a few seconds to start, yes, but then the regen is fast.

It's similar for tanks, I am not going to watch video to find a tank one. I don't even have BF3 installed anymore.

So whats your battlelog accont so we can test this out toghether i cant wait to see the self repair fails most of the time !

I think Self repair is a lost of time in many way it could be good when you dont have a ENG and you need to travers terrain with few vehicules on your path ! But you have to be skills enough to kill them and after thats must be lucky enough to have the time to get the self repair (( active )) and the extra time to replenish !

But if your vehicules got (( desactivated )) your screw whiout a ENG because your vehicules will burn up pretty quick and blow up if you do not repair it at 100 %

That's the point. Bring an engineer or return to where there is an engineer. Engineers can be set up at the forward base, but with regen there will be no customers.

Stew

2012-06-01, 11:31 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=xUocD13mcEU#t=116s

It takes a few seconds to start, yes, but then the regen is fast.

It's similar for tanks, I am not going to watch video to find a tank one. I don't even have BF3 installed anymore.

That's the point. Bring an engineer or return to where there is an engineer. Engineers can be set up at the forward base, but with regen there will be no customers.

In your video it pass from 56 % to 100 % in 22 sec to replenish 44 % health thats mean 2 % per second 1:56 get hit start repair at 2:08 so 12 second to start self repair !

In BF3 their is mostly only 1 chopper per side and 1 AAA on the ground and 1 jet or 2 jets per side use or not used !

On planetside their will be tons of aircrafts and WAY to destroy them every single tanks will be able to equip AAA turrets on it and also rockets will be eficcients MAX units will have AAA possibility as well etc..etc..

These are 2 different games and self repair is almost useless in Combat situation !

remeber that if you got hit by anything the self repair stop for another 12 sec ;)

Stew

2012-06-01, 11:37 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=xUocD13mcEU#t=116s

It takes a few seconds to start, yes, but then the regen is fast.

It's similar for tanks, I am not going to watch video to find a tank one. I don't even have BF3 installed anymore.

That's the point. Bring an engineer or return to where there is an engineer. Engineers can be set up at the forward base, but with regen there will be no customers.

LOLLLLLLLLLL they are playing on console NOW i understand !

they play on xbox360 with less than 24 players 12 vs 12 their only threat is another single chopper lol and few noobs on the ground !

BF3 PC is by far different than thats and i dont think On pc with 64 players the selfrepair is (( overpower )) or usefull in anyway !

i would like to go their and test it out with ya lets get into the PSU team speak and lets go ON BF3 we gonna figure it out toguther

I would like you to proove me in a 64 players match self repair is any good !

Stardouser

2012-06-01, 11:39 AM

none

2012-06-01, 11:39 AM

Could be regen on cosmetic damage? It's rather slow regen btw. Not to worried.

And again, they have yet to balance anything.

Stew

2012-06-01, 11:51 AM

I play BF on PC and can confirm that it's just as easy to fly/drive away and let repair take care of it. No, I am not going to reinstall BF3 just to prove it to you in game. You do not dispute how fast it regenerates, so what would be the point?

And no, having dozens of vehicles in a fight at the same time is not going to make it any better, it's just going to increase the number of vehicles fleeing from the main combat to let regen take care of their problems.

I play BF3 on PC on a regular base iam playing it every days No need to (( reinstall it )) and i start to found your (( bf3 experience suspicious ))

I start to think thats you are not a BF3 player and youve just watch video and misunderstand the real picture of it but i leave you the benefit of the doubt !

In anyway thats u migth have play BF3 or not I can assure anybody that Self repair aint shit and do not do anything good in any ways ON BF3 PC with 64 players !

BF3 consoles is damned easy to dominate with gunship and jets ! because 12 vs 12 is ridicoulous is huge map like this !

Self repair stop repairing as soon as u get Hit another time + you got the damage !

In planetside More players = more chance to get hit = more chance to stop the (( self repair )) Process so more chance to make it even more useless !

I dont see any problem with self repair and ive found it useless and i can tell you from someones who have a real BF and BF3 experience and who as the game install on his computer :D