Planetside 2 - ESport?

[Xaine]

We've glazed over this before a few times, and Mr Higby as large Esports fan has even contributed very actively to our discussions on this. I don't think its ever had its own thread however.

What about adding an Esport component to Planetside 2. Something akin to clan matches in other games. Outfit vs Outfit with a ranked ladder for bragging rights, competitive community building smack talking fun. :)

Now, obviously the biggest issue with this is it retracting from the main game. So maybe make one day a month, or every two weeks a clan match day. Ranking to be done in which ever way is assumed as best by the Devs. A ladder or a rating like WoW Arena. Whatever. :)

This game, i think, has a massive amount of potential to be a great Esport. 50 vs 50 with all the vehicles included. The amount of teamwork and co-ordination would be amazing, and would be a brilliant thing to watch.

There is no game that has this sort of diversity with unit types, and no game that can support battles this large, and so no game that really has an upper ceiling for teamwork and coordination as high as this one, just because of the amount of people there would be.

If anyone can reply, and tell me a battle of 50v50, or 100v100 with AirCav, Tanks, Galaxy Drops, people playing support, medic, infiltrators, maxes... All working together wouldn't be the most insane thing to watch, then i think you're crazy. Or lying.

Obviously this would be a post launch thing, but i think it would really bring something new to the E-sports scene that hasn't been seen before at all.

[Bags]

This game is an MMOFPS, not an arena game.

[Kurtz]

go play a competitive shooter, theres hundreds. this is the only MMOFPS.

[Malorn]

There's no ESport in PlanetSide.

I know Higby's all gung-ho about ESports and loves StarCraft, but apart from StarCraft in South Korea and DoTA there are no real ESports, and they're only big in countries that don't have big normal sports. It really is a strange StarCraft phenomena.

The only Teams in PlanetSide are the empires, and those teams play each other constantly every day in PlanetSide. If anything there might be "seasons" where empire success is measured by resource income, territory ownership, captures, and similar metrics which show that empire being successful against the other empires. They could also display that sort of thing each and every day in PlanetSide or through fan sites and apps.

Blizzard tried really hard to E-sportify WoW with Arenas like they did with StarCraft and it failed horribly. They're likely going to try the same thing with D3. Some things aren't suited to be ESports, and PlanetSide is definitely one of them. I would say any MMO shouldn't be an E-sport. Trying to make it one would only detract from the game and add silly mechanics that shouldn't be there.

I see E-sports the same way I see PvE content - keep it the hell away from PlanetSide 2!

[Kaw]

I'm sure plenty of people and outfits will be streaming their play on sites like twitch and own3d. In the interview posted today, Higby was talking about trying to make it possible to stream straight from the client. As far as esports are concerned, I don't see how PS2 tournaments would ever be remotely feasible.

[SKYeXile]

http://img.ponibooru.org/_images/a121bf801a65eb83bce1677b05f4117b/66286%20-%20Architect%20Colonel_Sanders%20crossover%20matri x%20the_matrix.png

This is the 6th time we have made this thread, and we have become very efficient at it.


i liked outfit wars, but yea it shouldn't be apart of the the regular game, jsut held every so often. also it should be a platoon of 30, thats well over the amount of people thats generally considered a competitive number for PvP.

[Xaine]

Thank you Malorn, for providing a constructive reply.

The other two children who posted and managed to fit all their thoughts into about 6 words in a one sentence dismissive reply i'm gong to ignore.

Expected better from Bags.

There is no win condition in Planetside, i think outfits would appreciate a way to directly compete with each other as they can't in any other way. Not in an even field.

This actually happened in Planetside 1, where two outfits would fight over a base away from the main fight on another cont. Why not make it structured.

[Rumblepit]

lol well when a game is picked up by esl or is esl worthy they host the matches,not soe, they make the rules, not soe, they review and fraps all matches before deciding a winner, not soe. if you want to be apart of a esl team you make one and contact esl, not soe.


this being said none of you have any control over this........
if its as good as it should be , it will be picked up, it will be huge, there will be events, competitions and prizes. soe and all the crying in the world cant stop this!

[Malorn]

Thank you Malorn, for providing a constructive reply.

The other two children who posted and managed to fit all their thoughts into about 6 words in a one sentence dismissive reply i'm gong to ignore.

Expected better from Bags.

There is no win condition in Planetside, i think outfits would appreciate a way to directly compete with each other as they can't in any other way. Not in an even field.

This actually happened in Planetside 1, where two outfits would fight over a base away from the main fight on another cont. Why not make it structured.

There's an Outfit vs Outfit thread where that topic is covered in detail.
http://www.planetside-universe.com/showthread.php?t=41646

Ultimately though PlanetSide is about "massive combat on an epic scale" - it isn't about outfit epeen measurement. Plenty of other FPS games to do that in. PlanetSide is different and the devs should be encouraging empire success, not individual outfit success.

[Zulthus]

If anyone can reply, and tell me a battle of 50v50, or 100v100 with AirCav, Tanks, Galaxy Drops, people playing support, medic, infiltrators, maxes... All working together wouldn't be the most insane thing to watch, then i think you're crazy. Or lying.



The most insane thing to watch would be a battle of 666v666v666 with AirCav, Tanks, Galaxy Drops, people playing support, medic, infiltrators, maxes... all working together.

Do I win?

Anyway, I dislike e-sports because as you said they detract from the main population... however if they were monthly or every few weeks that'd be fine. Outfit wars was a pretty good idea and would have failed miserably if it was a daily thing, but it was spread out much more than that and people enjoyed it. This game isn't about outfit rankings and leaderboards, but teamplay for a much bigger objective.

[Xaine]

This is the 6th time we have made this thread, and we have become very efficient at it.


i liked outfit wars, but yea it shouldn't be apart of the the regular game, jsut held every so often. also it should be a platoon of 30, thats well over the amount of people thats generally considered a competitive number for PvP.

Really? Searching 'Esport' came up with nothing. So i apologise.

I get the feeling everyone is so terrified of their game turning into CoD or BF3 that they never want to try anything new, or look outside the box, and this is a theme in almost every thread.

I played PS1 since 2003 as well, its one of the best games i've played and one of my favourites, but people need to unstand we're not getting Planetside 1.5.

Times have moved on. People want to play games competitively, the Esports scene is growing and this game has a massive chance to really mix it up.

I don't want this game to become 100% Esport focused. But they don't need to change anything. The balance is already there from the main game. We need an instanced map with a base in it. Thats it.

[The Kush]

I would like this. It was done in PS1 at "special events" and my outfit had a blast. I even recieved a merit for it. ;)

The system could be setup to allow you to also battle outfits of your same faction. Would lead to some new experiences and interesting fights.

[ninjaturtlesoup]

I'm new to planetside, but I think a platoon vs platoon e-sport could be an interesting idea. Maybe have islands (smaller than continents) where a team could totally take control to win the event. I don't see a problem with creating a separate server/map for a different/competitive play. SOE could even rent them out and let you control certain variables. It wouldn't take away from the main game and would just add a new flavor of gameplay.

[Xaine]

There's an Outfit vs Outfit thread where that topic is covered in detail.
http://www.planetside-universe.com/showthread.php?t=41646

Ultimately though PlanetSide is about "massive combat on an epic scale" - it isn't about outfit epeen measurement. Plenty of other FPS games to do that in. PlanetSide is different and the devs should be encouraging empire success, not individual outfit success.

World of Warcraft was about Pve, then arenas took off and became a massive deal on the Esports scene. (Untill it ended badly, but thats not the point).

A game can have more than one dynamic. As awesome as Planetside is, occasionally people want to do something a little bit different.

Other MMOs have crafting, social stuff, pvp, pve. Some have player housing etc

I'm certainly not suggesting any of that for Planetside, but Esports would fit. As long as it was properly done, not on all the time.

[Malorn]

PlanetSide 2 - Massive Combat... on a private server... between two clans.

You're killing me! :(

[Rumblepit]

Really? Searching 'Esport' came up with nothing. So i apologise.

I get the feeling everyone is so terrified of their game turning into CoD or BF3 that they never want to try anything new, or look outside the box, and this is a theme in almost every thread.

I played PS1 since 2003 as well, its one of the best games i've played and one of my favourites, but people need to unstand we're not getting Planetside 1.5.

Times have moved on. People want to play games competitively, the Esports scene is growing and this game has a massive chance to really mix it up.

I don't want this game to become 100% Esport focused. But they don't need to change anything. The balance is already there from the main game. We need an instanced map with a base in it. Thats it.

if it is picked up by a esl then you can add another 1/2 mill to your game pop.
competitive gaming is huge right now. why not be on a uber team and get paid to own people all day.turn on your tv and see your boys at a major tournament owning people.people dont want this to happen????? thats like sayin i hate money, i hate the sky, i hate apples, i hate my wife,,,, wait bad example.... but you get where im comin from.

[Immigrant]

I just don't see it happening without ruining the core game.

[SKYeXile]

Really? Searching 'Esport' came up with nothing. So i apologise.

I get the feeling everyone is so terrified of their game turning into CoD or BF3 that they never want to try anything new, or look outside the box, and this is a theme in almost every thread.

I played PS1 since 2003 as well, its one of the best games i've played and one of my favourites, but people need to unstand we're not getting Planetside 1.5.

Times have moved on. People want to play games competitively, the Esports scene is growing and this game has a massive chance to really mix it up.

I don't want this game to become 100% Esport focused. But they don't need to change anything. The balance is already there from the main game. We need an instanced map with a base in it. Thats it.

No i fully agree, but i wouldnt want to see it as a special thing like you say with rating or clan wars in WOT. there should be a map or acouple for it for it with 2 tech plants and hold tournaments for it every few months or something.

Competitive pvp was something we all looked for in PS1, HT, PCP and FC had attempted Tods at private towers regularly and there was about 18 outfits from each server that signed up for compete in outfit wars.

the regular game is good and all, but outfit wars totally changes the way you play the game and i think its good to have some variety in the game.

[Hamma]

We will leave this thread open on one condition.

You guys are nice to eachother and say please and thank you. :lol:

[Kaw]

if it is picked up by a esl then you can add another 1/2 mill to your game pop.
competitive gaming is huge right now. why not be on a uber team and get paid to own people all day.turn on your tv and see your boys at a major tournament owning people.people dont want this to happen????? thats like sayin i hate money, i hate the sky, i hate apples, i hate my wife,,,, wait bad example.... but you get where im comin from.

The problem is that esports organizations in other games are struggling to actually make money when the teams have five people. Completely ignoring whether or not PS2 would be a good spectator sport, which I also don't agree is true, it simply wont be feasible for any tournament organizer to try to split the pie between teams of fifty.

Edit: Thank you Hamma.

[Rumblepit]

We will leave this thread open on one condition.

You guys are nice to eachother and say please and thank you. :lol:

thankyou hamma :)

[SKYeXile]

The problem is that esports organizations in other games are struggling to actually make money when the teams have five people. Completely ignoring whether or not PS2 would be a good spectator sport, which I also don't agree is true, it simply wont be feasible for any tournament organizer to try to split the pie between teams of fifty.

Edit: Thank you Hamma.

i dont think it could be an esport per say, but it could be competitive pvp.

[Xaine]

PlanetSide 2 - Massive Combat... on a private server... between two clans.

You're killing me! :(

Just because a game has more than one dynamic, doesn't suddenly change the entire philosophy and idea behind the game.

It widens the audience it pulls to it, makes it more competitive and builds a new community around it, enhances the community already there by adding a competitive mode for Outfits to fight in.

If its done right, its doesn't effect the main part of the game at all. Enhances that if anything, makes it more interesting when Outfits meet each other in the field.

Honestly don't understand what the fuss is about. I just think you're all terrified of adding something new into the game because it destroys your nostalgic view of PS1.

[Rumblepit]

The problem is that esports organizations in other games are struggling to actually make money when the teams have five people. Completely ignoring whether or not PS2 would be a good spectator sport, which I also don't agree is true, it simply wont be feasible for any tournament organizer to try to split the pie between teams of fifty.

Edit: Thank you Hamma.

enrollment would be the same im sure, the pot would be 10x bigger.

[Xaine]

We will leave this thread open on one condition.

You guys are nice to eachother and say please and thank you. :lol:

Yeah, sorry Hamma. Didn't mean to open up a new thread on an old Topic, i did look for other ones. Promise :(

[Kaw]

i dont think it could be an esport per say, but it could be competitive pvp.

Right, but you will absolutely not see ESL or MLG or any other tournament "pick up" PS2 like Rumblepit was suggesting.

[Xaine]

Right, but you will absolutely not see ESL or MLG or any other tournament "pick up" PS2 like Rumblepit was suggesting.

I'd be interested to hear why.

[Rumblepit]

aswell

[phazon]

no shot because the game is too pub oriented as well as 99% of the attracted fan base

let the game be what it was meant to be...a unique and fun pub game

if anyone even mentions bf3 comp as a comparison you're opinion is already invalid

i could go on for hours w/ reasons why ps2 couldn't be a valid esport regardless of the scale, just like bf3

[SKYeXile]

too many people and without support for it by SOE, its hard. also with no real prime focal point and +60 players, it makes for hard watching to see who's winning.

[Xaine]

too many people and without support for it by SOE, its hard. also with no real prime focal point and +60 players, it makes for hard watching to see who's winning.

Too many people I could see being a reason, as it would be the biggest Esports by a fair old gap. Organising and coordinating with that many people would be hard, and bringing them all to a live event again would be a problem. I don't think its the end of the world though. More people means more variables and generally, more interesting gameplay.

Support for SoE is a must, thats very true.

The 60+ players point, and hard to see who is winning i don't agree with.

For a start, you can see on the HUD how close the base is to being captured - and if you had a spectator mode (like LoL has just added in) i don't think it would be a problem. Planetside as a moment by moment game isn't hard to follow. The over-all map stratergy is, but thats not what the fight would be about. If you see a Reaver kill a Scythe, thats obvious. If you see one squad wiping out another, thats also obvious.

[Kaw]

I'd be interested to hear why.

The problem is that esports organizations in other games are struggling to actually make money when the teams have five people. Completely ignoring whether or not PS2 would be a good spectator sport, which I also don't agree is true, it simply wont be feasible for any tournament organizer to try to split the pie between teams of fifty.

Edit: Thank you Hamma.

Also, in response to Rumblepit, enrollment wont be much higher. Starcraft 2 for example had a larger player base at launch than I think we can reasonably expect in Planetside 2. Being generous, there are approximately 100 "pro" Starcraft players. With the system the OP is suggesting, that would make two teams. You can't just throw a thousand low caliber players into a tournament and expect it to have ten times the viewership of Starcraft.

[Malorn]

Just because a game has more than one dynamic, doesn't suddenly change the entire philosophy and idea behind the game.

It widens the audience it pulls to it, makes it more competitive and builds a new community around it, enhances the community already there by adding a competitive mode for Outfits to fight in.

If its done right, its doesn't effect the main part of the game at all. Enhances that if anything, makes it more interesting when Outfits meet each other in the field.

Honestly don't understand what the fuss is about. I just think you're all terrified of adding something new into the game because it destroys your nostalgic view of PS1.

Actually its more about realistic fears that it will have the following result

1) fracture the player base into those that play PlanetSide 2 the Esport and PlanetSide 2 the MMO. That could drive populations lower or cause developer priorities to shift.

2) fracture the dev team investments into splitting time between PlanetSide 2 the MMO and PlanetSide 2 the ESport. Time spent on one is time not spent on the other. It will mean delayed features and less improvement in the game mode I really care about.

3) have design decisions for one game mode affecting the other, like changing the way rockets work because in the ESport mode they are problematic when in the MMO mode they are just fine. WoW has had this problem for years where PvE changes impact PvP and vice versa.

It fractures the dev priorities, impacts development, and can ultimately negatively impact PlanetSide 2 the MMO. When developers try to over-reach the game and make it more than it should be they end up half-assing both and ruining the game. Stick to what the game is good for. It doesn't have to do everything. There are things it shouldn't do, and make the great game that it should be.

[Rumblepit]

well this is how it works, they make up the rules, not soe, they decide weapons, not soe, they decide on the number of player, not soe, they decide how many matches and what kinds of matches will be played, not soe. so in a turney you mite see 10 vs 10 nanite wepons only, no tech, death match,secure, resecure, so on so forth. if they pick it up none of you can do anything about.


its simple really, if there is a compitive aspect to the game, which we know for 100% that there will be it wil be looked at. and if its worthy then its on!!!!!!

[rTekku]

One thing the OP doesn't seem to understand is that E-sports can directly affect the main game, especially when it comes to in game balance.

[Kaw]

well this is how it works, they make up the rules, not soe, they decide weapons, not soe, they decide on the number of player, not soe, they decide how many matches and what kinds of matches will be played, not soe. so in a turney you mite see 10 vs 10 nanite wepons only, no tech, death match,secure, resecure, so on so forth. if they pick it up none of you can do anything about.

But once you are at 10v10 in an arena mode, what does Planetside offer that every other fps on the market doesn't? The appeal of Planetside for viewers would be the scale, but the scale just isn't feasible for tournaments.

Hypothetically, if an outfit v outfit system is put in, we may see exhibition matches between two "top" outfits similar to the live raids at Blizzcon, but I just don't see how PS2 can ever work at a tournament.

[SKYeXile]

Too many people I could see being a reason, as it would be the biggest Esports by a fair old gap. Organising and coordinating with that many people would be hard, and bringing them all to a live event again would be a problem. I don't think its the end of the world though. More people means more variables and generally, more interesting gameplay.

Support for SoE is a must, thats very true.

The 60+ players point, and hard to see who is winning i don't agree with.

For a start, you can see on the HUD how close the base is to being captured - and if you had a spectator mode (like LoL has just added in) i don't think it would be a problem. Planetside as a moment by moment game isn't hard to follow. The over-all map stratergy is, but thats not what the fight would be about. If you see a Reaver kill a Scythe, thats obvious. If you see one squad wiping out another, thats also obvious.

it doesn't play like that, there was so much going on in outfit wars.

You had no idea who was gonna win in our match against PcP.

We controlled their base, they had ours, they had less time on hacking our base so we sent back a splinter force and secured it, we missed an AMS outside their base though and they re spawned and took their base back, we gened them and tookout their ams they then had another ams at our base and began swarming it, we blewup their last AMS and that was the fight over...a rather un climatic end to an amazing fight that could have gone either way.

all while this is going on theres small skirmishes, they're sending infils to our gen, our max is killing them, there's dogfights and shit happening.

its just to hard to follow without and proper support from SOE and the game been more designed around it properly, you can sure play it and it would be competitive, but its not good to watch.

[Rumblepit]

bahhh i give up, you people lack vision .... lol you should look into els games, play some, do a bit of research, and post something constructive. sand box features will come after launch, with that will come outfit bases and outfit wars. then you can speculate how it will work . the issue wont be weather it will or wont work.


i feel like im arguing with my ex lol. cant win

[Kaw]

bahhh i give up, you people lack vision .... lol you should look into els games, play some, do a bit of research, and post something constructive. sand box features will come after launch, with that will come outfit bases and outfit wars. then you can speculate how it will work . the issue wont be weather it will or wont work.


i feel like im arguing with my ex lol. cant win

I'm just trying to be realistic lol. I'm probably as big of an esports guy as yall are, but if you are looking for a tournament viable game, I don't think PS2 will ever be the right choice. For the foreseeable future, people looking for epic battles in a tournament setting will have to stick to Starcraft.

[Xaine]

it doesn't play like that, there was so much going on in outfit wars.

You had no idea who was gonna win in our match against PcP.

We controlled their base, they had ours, they had less time on hacking our base so we sent back a splinter force and secured it, we missed an AMS outside their base though and they re spawned and took their base back, we gened them and tookout their ams they then had another ams at our base and began swarming it, we blewup their last AMS and that was the fight over...a rather un climatic end to an amazing fight that could have gone either way.

all while this is going on theres small skirmishes, they're sending infils to our gen, our max is killing them, there's dogfights and shit happening.

its just to hard to follow without and proper support from SOE and the game been more designed around it properly, you can sure play it and it would be competitive, but its not good to watch.

Fine, but pretty much every Esport is shout casted so you know whats going on and if you can switch cameras between players in the field, then you can get a multi-angle perspective.

I really don't see this being a problem. I followed what you just said, and alright i've played PS1 so i know what an AMS is, but thats really the only thing that would confuse people. I never watch Starcraft streams because i don't know whats going on. That is alot harder to follow than PS2 would be. Much harder.

[Xaine]

One thing the OP doesn't seem to understand is that E-sports can directly affect the main game, especially when it comes to in game balance.

Explain to me how this is a problem. Why does anything have to change from the main game, to the Esport version of Planetside 2.

Go.

[Jimmuc]

USA vs Germany vs China!!! each country chooses 666 people to compete with..be like the Olympics lol

[Xaine]

Actually its more about realistic fears that it will have the following result

1) fracture the player base into those that play PlanetSide 2 the Esport and PlanetSide 2 the MMO. That could drive populations lower or cause developer priorities to shift.

2) fracture the dev team investments into splitting time between PlanetSide 2 the MMO and PlanetSide 2 the ESport. Time spent on one is time not spent on the other. It will mean delayed features and less improvement in the game mode I really care about.

3) have design decisions for one game mode affecting the other, like changing the way rockets work because in the ESport mode they are problematic when in the MMO mode they are just fine. WoW has had this problem for years where PvE changes impact PvP and vice versa.

It fractures the dev priorities, impacts development, and can ultimately negatively impact PlanetSide 2 the MMO. When developers try to over-reach the game and make it more than it should be they end up half-assing both and ruining the game. Stick to what the game is good for. It doesn't have to do everything. There are things it shouldn't do, and make the great game that it should be.

Sorry for the triple post, firstly.

1). When the Esport is only available once every few weeks, how is that going to happen. People will come on and play on the Outfit War day, and then log off for a month?

No. Not at all. People who play the Esport will play the game. I'm not sure how you can deny that. People who play the main game, might not play the Esport. Thats not required at all. Do not see a problem here.

2). This i agree with, but again, how much would you really need to do? A few maps for it, of already existing bases in the game world. A spawn point for each team. Its not going to need its own dedicated team for it.

3) Possibly. But i doubt it. Why would anything need to change. I don't understand. The Esport would be like a Planetside battle, but with a few less people around a base. Thats it. Bam. Why would you need to change anything?

Also, WoW is a terrible example. WoW had to balance PvE and PvP. Thats why it failed. Two completely different things.

In Planetside 2, it will all be pvp. People shooting at each other with the same weapons, the same tanks. Everything would be the same, but it would be on a smaller scale than the normal game.

Also, the balance issues might be evened out because the teams are bigger - and each Outfit could select which Empire they play if one has a better HA weapon or something. If the jackhammer is way over powered, then both teams play NC.

Same maps as the game, same base, same weapons, same vehicles, same capture mechanics.

Really, don't see a problem.

[Kaw]

Explain to me how this is a problem. Why does anything have to change from the main game, to the Esport version of Planetside 2.

Go.

Just a random example, but it may be the case that in a 666v666v666 setting, aircraft get completely demolished by the massive amounts of anti-air. At the same time, in the 50v50 "esports" mode, there is less stuff shooting up and aircraft is completely overpowered. In a situation like this, half of the community would hate SOE for not buffing aircraft, and half of the community would hate SOE if they changed aircraft.

This is just a random situation that may or may not be the case, but situations like this were one of the biggest problems with arenas in WoW.

Edit: This wouldn't be nearly as big a problem if the game mode is only temporarily available, like you suggested. If that was how it worked, it wouldn't really be an esport but just a random special event.

[Xaine]

Alright, i could see that.

But its not like you are locked into a role. If their AA is annihilating you, then swap to something that counters it. You can switch classes on the fly. Again, not really seeing an issue. It might play different than the normal game mode, infact i'm sure it will - but that doesn't mean there will be a problem.

When you can switch roles on the fly, you can counter anything.

And ok, maybe E-sport was the wrong word. Ranked Outfit play maybe?

[Graywolves]

This forum overall is mostly against the idea of an E-Sport scene in Planetside2 for a number of valid reasons or concerns.

In another thread I stated that I don't think we've ever even scratched the surface of the possibilities when it comes to a competitive scene. I'm sure Higby has thought about it and I know that he once said that if we do put in an eSport scene that it will be some time after launch. He has also stated that he intends to make the core gameplay competitive in nature so that if a scene is added it will be easier to implement.

I'm very interested in this once it will start happening but it is a long ways off.

[Xaine]

He has also stated that he intends to make the core gameplay competitive in nature so that if a scene is added it will be easier to implement.



My point summed up pretty well.

[Rumblepit]

Just a random example, but it may be the case that in a 666v666v666 setting, aircraft get completely demolished by the massive amounts of anti-air. At the same time, in the 50v50 "esports" mode, there is less stuff shooting up and aircraft is completely overpowered. In a situation like this, half of the community would hate SOE for not buffing aircraft, and half of the community would hate SOE if they changed aircraft.

This is just a random situation that may or may not be the case, but situations like this were one of the biggest problems with arenas in WoW.

Edit: This wouldn't be nearly as big a problem if the game mode is only temporarily available, like you suggested. If that was how it worked, it wouldn't really be an esport but just a random special event.




DUDE!!!!!!!! SOE WONT MAKE THE RULES, THEY WILL HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH ANYTHING !!!!!!!!!!! you have no clue what your talking about. esl has nothing to do with soe. nothing!!!!!!!!! you dont get this do you? not trying to be a troll but your talking jibberish . you need to do some research. one has nothing to do with the other.


l

[Kaw]

He has also stated that he intends to make the core gameplay competitive in nature so that if a scene is added it will be easier to implement.


That's the awesome thing about having a guy like Higby at the wheel. Most shooters aren't designed with competition in mind, and if the game really is competitive at the core gameplay level, some sort of 5v5 arena game type may turn out to be awesome. I could hypothetically see something like that being released post launch as a minigame or ladder or something if the devs really think it has potential, but I still don't see how full scale Planetside 2 will ever be able to call itself an esport.

[Graywolves]

I'm not quite in a creative mindset right now but I will say that putting in a competitive game mode and having a successful eSport are seperate cases but not for the reason most people would know.

eSport scene is still relatively new. The science in how to make one successful is limited to not even a handful of titles. If we look at SC2 we notice that we get to view the game exactly how the competitors do and we see all the information required to follow the game. You can easily keep track of the micro and macro gameplay and speculate how the game is going to turn out. In DOTA it is a little more chaotic as you have 10 players overall, it is difficult to really watch it analytical and so the appeal of a spectated game is almost entirely on the casters (this is still true in SC2 but not as heavily).

So while a fun competitive game mode in PS2 can be very successful an eSport scene out of it might be more difficult as the Spectator has multiple players to follow. I don't think it's at all impossible I just think that for it to work we would require a very interesting spectator mode interface in those game modes and that the casters would require the foresight to catch a player's skill from time to time as with every shooter that is spectated that is the one thing people really watch for, a player's twitch shot that looks epic.

tl;dr - Competitive game modes in the future can be very successful and their success might threaten the core gameplay unless regulated correctly. An eSport scene requires a very in-depth game mode and a spectator mode that allow's a bird's eye view, easy map navigation, and any player's view.

[Kaw]

DUDE!!!!!!!! SOE WONT MAKE THE RULES, THEY WILL HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH ANYTHING !!!!!!!!!!! you have no clue what your talking about. esl has nothing to do with soe. nothing!!!!!!!!! you dont get this do you? not trying to be a troll but your talking jibberish . you need to do some research. one has nothing to do with the other.

How can anybody but SOE make the rules? The game can only be played on SOE servers and players have no control over any changes. Blizzard made the rules in WoW and Starcraft. Riot made the rules in LoL. Even in MLG's Halo and COD where the community had the most say, players had to pick and choose from the rules Bungie and Infinity Edge made.

[Red Beard]

http://img.ponibooru.org/_images/a121bf801a65eb83bce1677b05f4117b/66286%20-%20Architect%20Colonel_Sanders%20crossover%20matri x%20the_matrix.png

This is the 6th time we have made this thread, and we have become very efficient at it.


i liked outfit wars, but yea it shouldn't be apart of the the regular game, jsut held every so often. also it should be a platoon of 30, thats well over the amount of people thats generally considered a competitive number for PvP.

lol! That's the best post I've seen all week! :thumbsup:

[SKYeXile]

lol! That's the best post I've seen all week! :thumbsup:

i couldn't find the regular pic i use for it, CBFed making one...so ponies will suffice...its gonna be my theme now after i joined a brony WOT clan. :P

[Xaine]

How can anybody but SOE make the rules? The game can only be played on SOE servers and players have no control over any changes. Blizzard made the rules in WoW and Starcraft. Riot made the rules in LoL. Even in MLG's Halo and COD where the community had the most say, players had to pick and choose from the rules Bungie and Infinity Edge made.

He means rules as in, certain things might be banned by MLG or whoever, if they're deemed too strong.

I played Socom 2 back in the day, and certain weapons and maps were banned on the Gamebattles Ladders due to Imbalance. Sujo was a map that gave a massive advantage to the defenders, for example.

[Rumblepit]

How can anybody but SOE make the rules? The game can only be played on SOE servers and players have no control over any changes. Blizzard made the rules in WoW and Starcraft. Riot made the rules in LoL. Even in MLG's Halo and COD where the community had the most say, players had to pick and choose from the rules Bungie and Infinity Edge made.

companies made the rules because they ran the competitions..soe can do this aswell, but they wont do well because they really dont know how to balance a game for a competitive sence, no offense .

esl was just a example ,,, one of many leagues ran by fans,and other companies .


2 years into the future just follow me here ... this mite help u to understand.


lets say im RGL rumblepits gaimng league , i host many games, and i have a great rep for catching hackers, and balanced gameplay. "this is what esl is known for".... i have 100,000 gamers that play on my leagues and i host 20 different games. i see ps2 outfit wars are up and running, pop is great game has millions of players. i see the combat, the outfit wars, match styles . then i come up with it. rules ::::: common pool only!!!!!!!!, no certs!!!!!,best 2 out of 3 to win,10 v 10 and 20 v 20 only!!!!!! must have same classes on each team!!!! 2 medics, 1 engy, 1 cloaker,6 assault ..... i get my sponsors to help me promote a turny, and then its on!!! SOE WILL HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.

[Kaw]

He means rules as in, certain things might be banned by MLG or whoever, if they're deemed too strong.

I played Socom 2 back in the day, and certain weapons and maps were banned on the Gamebattles Ladders due to Imbalance. Sujo was a map that gave a massive advantage to the defenders, for example.

I see what yall are saying, and it seems we come from different competitive backgrounds. I played games like Starcraft and WoW extensively, and the developer set the rules almost entirely because they controlled the ladder and the servers. Yall played games on gamebattles and ESL where there wasn't an official ladder and the community picked the gametype and maps and guns to be used. The point is, if PS2 ever gets a competitive gamemode, it wont be a case of SOE releasing a traditional FPS and the community picking the rules they want to play by. If, by some miracle, we ever see another game mode besides the huge MMO one, it will be entirely on SOE servers by their rules. I'm speaking from my experience with WoW, the only other MMO esport that I'm aware of, but in that game the community could literally do nothing to change the way the game was played. PS2 will almost certainly always remain on SOE servers, and attempts to play on your own servers will leave you drowning in lawyers.

That being said, I still don't see any of the stuff we are talking about happening so I'm going to take a break from posting. Tried my best to keep it civil, and its been fun.

[cellinaire]

There's no ESport in PlanetSide.

I know Higby's all gung-ho about ESports and loves StarCraft, but apart from StarCraft in South Korea and DoTA there are no real ESports, and they're only big in countries that don't have big normal sports. It really is a strange StarCraft phenomena.

The only Teams in PlanetSide are the empires, and those teams play each other constantly every day in PlanetSide. If anything there might be "seasons" where empire success is measured by resource income, territory ownership, captures, and similar metrics which show that empire being successful against the other empires. They could also display that sort of thing each and every day in PlanetSide or through fan sites and apps.

Blizzard tried really hard to E-sportify WoW with Arenas like they did with StarCraft and it failed horribly. They're likely going to try the same thing with D3. Some things aren't suited to be ESports, and PlanetSide is definitely one of them. I would say any MMO shouldn't be an E-sport. Trying to make it one would only detract from the game and add silly mechanics that shouldn't be there.

I see E-sports the same way I see PvE content - keep it the hell away from PlanetSide 2!


...Bolded part. Not cool. Is the E-Sports an inferior sub-culture and abomination, or do you just simply want them to stay away from mmos?

[Dreamcast]

The thing is I don't want people training for an E-Sport.


I want clans to train for a massive war...Is cool to have outfit wars once in a while but it shouldn't be a regular thing because then we will have people dedicating themselves to 50 vs 50 fights or whatever the number is on some map.

Maybe just make it once a year thing...kind of like an olympics or just let players deal with it .

[Razicator]

Reason that E-sports will never gain as wide acceptance as regular sports is that you cannot build franchises around a game. Football has been out for dozens of years; any kid today can watch a game from 1920 and pretty much get everything going on. You think 80 years from now, people can look back at CoD and tell what's' going on compared to their games? Hell no. Things will look so out of date as well; physical sports don't go out of date, except minor rule updates.

There's big money in sports too, as you can see with all the professional sports teams. In E-Sports, unless a player can adapt to a new game every 5-10 years, he will fade out and lose startdom and franchise. For example, Tom Brady will be playing for many many years if the Patriots can help it, and their whole franchise is built around him. You just can't do that in an E-Sport, where rules and games change too much.


ESports are also just not as accessable to the average guy. Anybody can pick up a soccer ball and learn the ropes, or play some pickup football or basketball. Learning an E-Sport requires specialized equipment (better computer or a console), and often times much larger time sinks to learn the basics (ie forced leveling to unlock everything, or paying monthly fees, or playing a ton of time to unlock every weapon, etc). Everything in a sport is "unlocked" off the bat.
That's now though. Maybe in the future some of the problems with E-Sports iwll change.

[KTNApollo]

PlanetSide will not make a good eSport. Being able to switch roles on the fly will cause way too much chaos, and will likely cause artificial rules to be created. In DotA and StarCraft, there are little to no artificial rules because the games are made to be played competitively. PlanetSide is not designed to be an eSport, so it will not become an eSport.

[Bags]

Expected better from Bags.


Sorry I didn't live up to your expectation of mindlessly agreeing with you?

I dunno what else to say. I don't like the idea of small arena fights.

[Xaine]

Sorry I didn't live up to your expectation of mindlessly agreeing with you?

You didn't live up to my expectation of posting a constructive reply, rather than a dismissive one sentence answer, without any reason or points to back it up. If you don't like my idea. Say why. If you don't care about it. Don't post.

Forums are hard to use.

But you knew what i meant anyway. So why you just said that, i have no idea.

[Notser]

Planetside won't work as a competitive game, mmo plus modern shooter both equal dead on arrival. However, planetside will be fantastic to spectate and create highlight reels because the battles are so massive. Hopefully they support this through some type of replay feature so you can fly around and view massive gal drops and tank columns from above. Would love a halo style replay feature, that literally has kept halo in the top 5 console shooters because of community interest fueled by replays.

[Vetto]

As many have said PS just not E-sport the most I can see is large scale events with a prize for the winning Empire perhaps just a little sticker you can put on your armor to show your empire won said event.

[Xaine]

Planetside won't work as a competitive game, mmo plus modern shooter both equal dead on arrival. However, planetside will be fantastic to spectate and create highlight reels because the battles are so massive. Hopefully they support this through some type of replay feature so you can fly around and view massive gal drops and tank columns from above. Would love a halo style replay feature, that literally has kept halo in the top 5 console shooters because of community interest fueled by replays.

Planetside is a competitive game. I'm not really sure what you're getting at.

[SKYeXile]

Planetside is a competitive game. I'm not really sure what you're getting at.

Open world pvp games are not really classified as competitive, despite what SOE marketing will have you believe.

[ZeroOneZero]

I don't see how Ps2 can be used for Esport. We're talking about hundreds of players fighting in one area. I mean how many players does it take to make an outfit anyways? You want full pop, 100v100?

I've never seen an Esport supporting that many players. Each outfit will branch out and fight small skirmishes to take and hold capture points. Of course it has to be 1vs1 outfits and not 1v1v1, third faction might help one of the two. Then you got the problem of balancing and restricting. Just sounds like a headache then actual fun.

Then there will be technical problems, one of the 100+ players will complain his mouse isn't working, or he's getting lag spikes, because we all know that "one" player will change the tide of war.

If they did pull it off, it'll be pretty hard to maintain.

[Mechzz]

MMOFPS is not a great candidate to be an e-sport.

What might work is for SOE to record major battles and then provide a weekly edited highlights programme that could be transmitted on the TV networks and on the web. That way you could also see interviews with the major players, etc. It would help build the cult of celebrity around the game, build hype for expansions, etc.

I hope Pro7 might have plans along these lines, at least for Europe.

[Nick]

E-Sports = Awesome. They're actually starting to explode in the NA/European gaming scene because of Starcraft 2 and League of Legends. You don't have to watch them, but at least give it some respect as a gamer. Shit.

Higby already stated they're focusing on the main game first, and probably adding what I assume would be a smaller scaled, instanced area of the main game for even Outfit fights. 30 versus 30, or something.

In case anyone here is a youngster, or just seem to forgot in your senile old age, Planetside 1 is loosely based off another "larger scale" FPS game. Yep, Tribes. A game that was often played competitively and even shoutcasted.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=igjM6KOm8ZE

[Fable]

PlanetSide will not make a good eSport. Being able to switch roles on the fly will cause way too much chaos, and will likely cause artificial rules to be created. In DotA and StarCraft, there are little to no artificial rules because the games are made to be played competitively. PlanetSide is not designed to be an eSport, so it will not become an eSport.

This, but I'll try to be more constructive.

Trying to make a game available for E-Sports is really difficult and imho not worth it unless it's really well made.

Think Starcraft
- The game is balanced (mostly an assumption, haven't see many SC2 competitions)
- It's easy to follow because there are only two players, it's easy to spectate.
- And overall, the game is very well suited for e-sports

Same with LoL, DotA and CS - these games are obviously made for e-sports from scratch

Even the newly made ShootMania - they have made the game for competitive gameplay. The option to create custom maps is what will make the game succesfull.

You can't do that with the core gameplay of Planetside. SOE will have to create something completely different for e-sports the way we think about it - shoutcasting and everything.

There will have to be something that differentiates PS2 from other games. You may think the scale would be the thing, but that will be very difficult to organize and shoutcast. And not many teams will try to compete if it would be 60vs60 or something like that.

It's true that in LoL, there are about 15 famous teams, which would be somehow possible to do in PS2, but that would be all there is. In the monthly tournament in LoL, there are literally hundrers of teams who try their best to get to play with the most famous. I don't see that hapenning in PS2 if the scale is what's supposed to differentiate it from other FPSs. There's not many other things that can do that.

[Snipefrag]

I can only see the devs really pushing this when they have nothing else to do in the game, there are so many other things i would prefer to see. I like the concept but it shouldn't have a big place in the game, maybe just one of events supported and moderated by CSR's on a locked down custom island.

[Sabot]

Only way I see possible to have any kind of shoutcast is if they put of an event kind-of thing. Were they have one faction, with all its outfits (plus all random players that want to join in, of course) invade a continent controlled by another faction, and they add some kind of spectating feature, an invisible flying camera or something, and they comment on the battle.

The problem is, the third faction will most likely join in, as they can't deny one factin access just because of this... it wouldn't be fun. Also the battle can go on for hours and hours.. I don't know how fun it would be to watch the battle for that long.. and how many would actually watch? Most people would probably be playing.

Small arenas that not are in the main world so to speak.. a separate arena you load into, where outfit vs outfit battles can take place for a couple of hours with commentary all that, could work. The problem with that is.. do the outfits want that? I know I'd rather be with the rest of my faction, kicking ass on whatever continent is currently being ravaged by a three way.

And the battles are tough to comment on in themselves because of the size of it all. If you do a close view of 1-4 infantry dudes you miss out on so much other stuff going on, and if you do a 'camera in the sky' type thing, you don't see any details in the battles. You could switch between the two, but that is also hard to do as the battles are very dynamic and you can't really just follow one group all the time... again, you miss out on alot and they might be dying a lot. So you switch out for an over view of the battle and at that point some does something awesome somewhere and you miss it caouse you have no idea whats going on at ground level.

Rant over... but I hope you get my point.

[kaffis]

PlanetSide 2 - Massive Combat... on a private server... between two clans.

You're killing me! :(
But.. what if the teams were HUGE!? 400-man eSports teams!!!!

[Rumblepit]

..... outfit wars will be implemented!!!!! this is fact!!! when said system is put into place it will be segregated from the rest of the world, god knows you dont want to loose your outfit base to a noob with a os who has nothing to do with the fight. we will have to wait and see what happens.

all the nay sayers in this thread are not in alpha, so they bases of their arguments come from planetside 1!!!! dont bother to argue with these people anymore, you wont win, its like debating a women, no offense ladies .... we are trying to state what could be..... devs are saying competitive gameplay is one of their main goals, espotrs have been talked about over and over again by the devs, the CEO says there will be outfit vs outfit wars, and outfit bases..... this thread was based on theses facts!!!!!!! FACTS!!!!!

if you dont like the direction the game is going, contact the COE, or one of the many DEVS.

having a competitive aspect in ps2 will only help the game. COE and the DEVs know this.

[Fable]

..... outfit wars will be implemented!!!!! this is fact!!! when said system is put into place it will be segregated from the rest of the world, god knows you dont want to loose your outfit base to a noob with a os who has nothing to do with the fight. we will have to wait and see what happens.

all the nay sayers in this thread are not in alpha, so they bases of their arguments come from planetside 1!!!! dont bother to argue with these people anymore, you wont win, its like debating a women, no offense ladies .... we are trying to state what could be..... devs are saying competitive gameplay is one of their main goals, espotrs have been talked about over and over again by the devs, the CEO says their will outfit vs outfit wars, and outfit bases..... this thread was based on theses facts!!!!!!! FACTS!!!!!

if you dont like the direction the game is going, contact the COE, or one of the many DEVS.

having a competitive aspect in ps2 will only help the game. COE and the DEVs know this.

Calm down. No reason to be that aggresive.

[Rumblepit]

Calm down. No reason to be that aggresive.

lol i didnt use caps .... just stating the facts.their not in alpha, they dont know anything about outfit wars system.

[Fable]

lol i didnt use caps .... just stating the facts.their not in alpha, they dont know anything about outfit wars system.

So that means you are in alpha? If you're not, your opinion has the same value as anybody else's. You may be wrong you know...

[Mastachief]

..... outfit wars will be implemented!!!!! this is fact!!!


Quote your source or GTFO with your roidrage

[Mastachief]

I don't see why outfit wars and competitive matches couldn't work. You simply limit the battlefield to a couple of hexes. There probably won't be cash prizes (because it's Sony), but setting up streaming events and websites with ladders shouldn't be out of reach.

You won't see Beastcleave teams destroying RMP's in 3 seconds in an FPS where everyone uses virtually the same equipment.

Outfit wars can certainly work provided they don't interrupt/take away from the actual game in any meaningful way and are run rarely with good management. Also to completion with a clear winner.

[Rumblepit]

hers is a quick viable esport scenario,

outfitwars are in game, i assume their will be some sort of bidding system with resources to attack a outfit base, because they want them in the open world, but they dont want them to be attacked at random 24 hrs a day. so they will be contained in some manner. a league sees that ps2 is doing great, and want to host the game. they talk to soe,get a outfit base or just get it in game. they start hosting matches.common pool weapons , no tech,no armor,no faction abilities,no cert abilities ,10 v 10 and 20 v 20 only! must have same classes on each team!!!! 2 medics, 1 engy, 1 cloaker,2 maxes,4 assault. to win you must capture all 5 capture points in a base, or as many as you can in 15 mins. each team will attack and defend. best time, or most caps moves up the ladder.all teams must register, not have a ip on the blacklist, pass ping test, must download ESL Wire Anti-Cheat. all matches will be reviewed on wired then a winner will be declared. spectate modes can be added, im sure the devs have some they use already.


this took me 15 mins. and i think its viable. i know it can be done, it can be done much better then this.

[Rumblepit]

Quote your source or GTFO with your roidrage

the COE himself said it. Smed :) also i mite be wrong but i thought i remember higby talking about 40 v 40 outfit wars aswell.this is ALPHA and subject to change, as they say.lol

[LancerNC]

Here is a thought. What if instead of showing off the game to the public through eSports, someone made short little documentaries (10-15 min YouTube clips) on the major outfits in Planetside 2. They could possibly include some footage of the major battles, you could see how each individual outfit strategizes and competes within the game, hear some outfit players commentate on the game and their outfit, etc...

I think these types of "documentaries" (can't think of a better name) is something that would be really interesting to the gaming community, would show off the game, and would benefit the individual outfits in ps2. What do you guys think?

[Fable]

Here is a thought. What if instead of showing off the game to the public through eSports, someone made short little documentaries (10-15 min YouTube clips) on the major outfits in Planetside 2. They could possibly include some footage of the major battles, you could see how each individual outfit strategizes and competes within the game, hear some outfit players commentate on the game and their outfit, etc...

I think these types of "documentaries" (can't think of a better name) is something that would be really interesting to the gaming community, would show off the game, and would benefit the individual outfits in ps2. What do you guys think?

This idea is nice and it could be done few months into the release, but it would have much smaller impact than you think. Not many people really care about this stuff and those who would are propably already PS players. It wouldn't get many new players.

Anyways, let's not go off-topic

[Rumblepit]

im sorry if this seems like a rant but i happen to be a BIG fan of esports and a BIGGER ps fan!!!! you dont see any bad games being hosted by any leagues. main stream popular games make the cut. thats it.so i take offense to people saying ps2 wont be good enough for that. thats just what im reading......

[Fable]

im sorry if this seems like a rant but i happen to be a BIG fan of esports and a BIGGER ps fan!!!! you dont see any bad games being hosted by any leagues. main stream popular games make the cut. thats it.so i take offense to people saying ps2 wont be good enough for that. thats just what im reading......

I don't think anyone said PS2 isn't good enough for e-sports

The game is frickin' great and revolutionary. The problem is that the gameplay is not suited for e-sports. It's really hard to imagine competitive playing in PS2 without really big change in what the goal of the game is. It would be difficult to organize, spectate and there wouldn't be enough people to participate who take e-sports seriously.

[LancerNC]

I just think that no one has ever done something like this with any game. I guess I can't speak for you, but I would definitely watch a show that reported on the top guilds in WoW and how they managed to be the best, or the best bf3 clan and their operations, or the top Halo team and what they do to succeed, etc...

I disagree with you that it would have little effect on new players. If done well, more outfits/guilds/clans will come to the game once they see what kind of things their clan can do in a game like Planetside 2.

[Rumblepit]

I don't think anyone said PS2 isn't good enough for e-sports

The game is frickin' great and revolutionary. The problem is that the gameplay is not suited for e-sports. It's really hard to imagine competitive playing in PS2 without really big change in what the goal of the game is. It would be difficult to organize, spectate and there wouldn't be enough people to participate who take e-sports seriously.

you should scroll up and read my post "viable esport scenario" you under estimate how many people compete...you should check out MLG,ESL,Esport Heaven. thats a million or so players right there.

[Fable]

I just think that no one has ever done something like this with any game. I guess I can't speak for you, but I would definitely watch a show that reported on the top guilds in WoW and how they managed to be the best, or the best bf3 clan and their operations, or the top Halo team and what they do to succeed, etc...

I disagree with you that it would have little effect on new players. If done well, more outfits/guilds/clans will come to the game once they see what kind of things their clan can do in a game like Planetside 2.

Well, you are right about the fact that no game has done something like this. The problem is it would need to be done really well. Like professional well. This propably couldn't be done by fans, if you want to achieve quality you need to make people interested in it.

If it was made by fans, it would require at least 3 people and it would take at least few months to make one video, at least the first one. Anything less would hinder the quality. In my opinion.

[Fable]

you should scroll up and read my post "viable esport scenario" you under estimate how many people compete...you should check out MLG,ESL,Esport Heaven. thats a million or so players right there.

I've read it, the restrictions you listed would make the game boring if it would be so controlled and 20 vs 20 isn't even Planetside, don't you think?

Even then, 20 vs 20 is difficult to organize, not saying about making tournaments like this.

Yes, there are many people in e-sports but don't forget they are teams of ~5 players. Managing team of 5 people is already difficult, now imagine 20.

Now you can say it's like managing a guild in WoW, which is a normal thing. But to make a tournament in PS2, you would need to have at least 8-16 teams, which means 160-320 people. What is the chance those people would have time to come and play on time? This would need to be shoutcasted to be interesting, so there would need to be specific times to play. It takes 1 player missing or something to endanger the whole tournament.

It's really difficult to do this and I don't think ESL or MLG would go through so much hassle for game that's not well known already.

[Tigersmith]

How can it be unless they create a instanced part of the game..That's not what the game is about.

Why does every game have to be ESport Related now..I understand it brings big crowds to the game..Can the game just be popular and really for once?? god

[Vancha]

Maybe just make it once a year thing...kind of like an olympics or just let players deal with it .
My god, 7 pages and it's only Dreamcast to mention this, of all people?!

Has no one here ever watched the EVE Alliance Tournaments? I think the term "e-sports" has people looking in entirely the wrong places.

I could even see the team compositions working the same way as EVE's. Outfit vs outfit, each one getting say, 1000pts to spend on team members. Imagine it working a bit like a Warhammer 40k fight, where each player chooses a troop or vehicle choice for a certain amount of points and then spends more points equipping it and themselves. That way the tournament can be better balanced year on year without affecting the main game.

Making it work that way also utilizes Planetside's unusual amount of roles and sidegrades, unlike most other "e-sports".

Edit: Obviously this would need it's own instanced area. Again, I imagine it working quite similar to EVE's Alliance Tournaments, with an SOE referee summoning players there. As to what the environment or objectives could be? Who knows? The possibilities are almost endless.

the COE himself said it. Smed :) also i mite be wrong but i thought i remember higby talking about 40 v 40 outfit wars aswell.this is ALPHA and subject to change, as they say.lol
You're just repeating yourself. Link to the post/video/tweet/whatever that Smed or Higby said this in.

[Fable]

Has no one here ever watched the EVE Alliance Tournaments? I think the term "e-sports" has people looking in entirely the wrong places.

I could even see the team compositions working the same way as EVE's. Outfit vs outfit, each one getting say, 1000pts to spend on team members. Imagine it working a bit like a Warhammer 40k fight, where each player chooses a troop or vehicle choice for a certain amount of points and then spends more points equipping it and themselves. That way the tournament can be better balanced year on year without affecting the main game.

Making it work that way also utilizes Planetside's unusual amount of roles and sidegrades, unlike most other "e-sports".

Edit: Obviously this would need it's own instanced area. Again, I imagine it working quite similar to EVE's Alliance Tournaments, with an SOE referee summoning players there. As to what the environment or objectives could be? Who knows? The possibilities are almost endless.

What you described is more like a normal tournament, when the goal is to simply find out who is the best and that's the end. We're talking about organized e-sports with prices, sponzors and shoutcasters.

[Vancha]

What you described is more like a normal tournament, when the goal is to simply find out who is the best and that's the end. We're talking about organized e-sports with prices, sponzors and shoutcasters.
Again, look at EAT. It has all those things (well it has commentators, if not shoutcasters).

If you consider the Olympics to consist of "sport", I don't know why you couldn't consider an electronic competition that takes place four times more often to be an "e-sport", but like I say, I think the term has people looking at this in the wrong way. You can't just copy/paste one game's competitive scene onto another.

[lolroflroflcake]

You can't do E-sport in Planetside its that simple I can't believe your still arguing about it. Either you make it small platoon or outfit sized matches in which case it ceases to be Planetside and the Planetside "pros" wont be pros at all just silly little babies with chips on their shoulders playing a totally different game, or you keep it on the live server which totally precludes any sort of tournament set up because every person in the game contributes to a victory and thus the teams who are actually competing in the Planetside E-sport league deserve jack squat, as their "victory" really belongs to their entire empire more then it belongs to them.

[Fable]

Again, look at EAT. It has all those things (well it has commentators, if not shoutcasters).

If you consider the Olympics to consist of "sport", I don't know why you couldn't consider an electronic competition that takes place four times more often to be an "e-sport", but like I say, I think the term has people looking at this in the wrong way. You can't just copy/paste one game's competitive scene onto another.

That's 10 vs 10 people against each other in 10 minutes long matches, nowhere near Planetside 2 scale.

I hope devs will come up with something, I just don't see what it could be.

[Xaine]

I regret using the term Esport in my title and original post. It seems to bring connotations I didn't mean it to. My fault.

[Vancha]

That's 10 vs 10 people against each other in 10 minutes long matches, nowhere near Planetside 2 scale.
What's your point, in relation to the post of mine you quoted?

[Fable]

What's your point, in relation to the post of mine you quoted?

I meant those EAT matches. It's much easier to organize and shoutcast that.

[NewSith]

I would actually like to see some new age of competitive play - when you have an outfit fighting an outfit without separation from the main fight. What I mean is "interactive competition" where 1 outfit gets a mission to "Defend A" and another outfit gets a mission to "Attack A". The amount of people is the only limitation there, limit it to a full 10-man squad. Yet you can call for outfit mates, on condition, that they will not be a part of your platoon, you can call in the zerg or allied outfits to help you with the case, but credit for the outcome will go solely to your outfit. If there's a spectator options for those matches, than they should be restricted to view from the eyes of those 20 competing.

I know it's one crazy idea and is obviously way TOOOOOOOOOOO situational, but, hell, trying something new (especially if it goes live before the OBT), shaking up the standards and "unsetting things from the stone" will be an interesting move.

[Malorn]

It is simply a matter of focus and priority. You cant do MMO and ESport together without half assing one or the other. Splitting the game vision and over-reaching is a sure path to failure. The vision of PS2 is massive combat on an epic scale. Catering to ESport stupidity is a huge detour from that vision. I really hope the developers arent that stupid. They seem to have their heads on straight so far so I have faith they wont get sidetracked by a gaming fad.

[SniperSteve]

If PS2 were to become an e-sport I would think it would need to have an entirely different flavor than other casted games.

[Mechzz]

When the game of football (soccer) started in England in the Middle ages, it was played by "teams" composed of the entire populations of two close by villages. The game involved trying to propel an inflated pig's bladder into one or other of the village squares. It was not uncommon for games to last all day and to involve much drunkenness and broken bones.

A proper planetside e-sports broadcast would capture this flavour except in an Auraxian setting.

[Vancha]

I meant those EAT matches. It's much easier to organize and shoutcast that.
It depends on the set-up. I imagine having the commentators screen split into quarters with four invisible floating cameramen trying to catch all relevant bits of the action. Stuff like that.

Tempted to mock-up an army list and map in photoshop.

[Fable]

It depends on the set-up. I imagine having the commentators screen split into quarters with four invisible floating cameramen trying to catch all relevant bits of the action. Stuff like that.

Tempted to mock-up an army list and map in photoshop.

Do that, I would like to see someone pulling this out in a way that would work.

[Neurotoxin]

FANTASY PLATOON LEAGUES (http://www.planetside-universe.com/showthread.php?t=41045)

I thought about this, and I think a Fantasy Platoon (or Outfit) League would be the way to go.

Something that functions in a similar way to a Fantasy league for any major sport, except that it is honed and refined for stats related to PlanetSide 2. Things like Kills, Deaths, Resources earned, Experience, Certs unlocked, Revives, Equipment repairs, and terminal hacks (and other stuff) would be factors utilized to determine stats and effectiveness of characters. Or it could simply be based on experience earned.

Or many other ways, I really don't follow the fantasy sports scene but I feel like this would be an easy and interesting way to infuse eSports into PS2.

[Fuse]

Thank you Malorn, for providing a constructive reply.

The other two children who posted and managed to fit all their thoughts into about 6 words in a one sentence dismissive reply i'm gong to ignore.

Expected better from Bags.

There is no win condition in Planetside, i think outfits would appreciate a way to directly compete with each other as they can't in any other way. Not in an even field.

This actually happened in Planetside 1, where two outfits would fight over a base away from the main fight on another cont. Why not make it structured.

I was thinking of a comprehensive reply, but the OP is apparently just a jerk.

Bad idea, doesn't work, move on. Learn how esports titles work.

[StraitDumpinSMF]

Major League Gaming hosted 3 MMOFPS tournaments for the game M.A.G. a few years back. I won a few hundred bucks in Sony Style gift certificates for their head shot tournament. The three tournaments were based upon highest number of kills/experience/head shots over X amount of time.

Now they can definitely do something similar to this for PS2, with enough demand.

However, I think we should aim higher. Something cooler and way more realistic, like:

MLG Anaheim 2014 - PS2 Tournament
Featuring 3x fully customized one-thousand-man sound proof booths filled with a total of three thousand of some of the worlds finest gamers (you) squaring off in what's never been done before. A three thousand man 24-hour battle. With a prize pool of.. 2 millio.. wait 10... fuk it, $1 BILLION DOLLARS!!!

Boom, get onboard or gtfo.

[Barlowkin]

I love this game to death because it is not structured. We, the players, structure it through the chaos of war that we create. I want to be able to fight the terrible Terran Republic and the baddies of Vanu as a Nations. Not small clans. THIS IS WAR, not skirmishes.

[Fuse]

Major League Gaming hosted 3 MMOFPS tournaments for the game M.A.G. a few years back. I won a few hundred bucks in Sony Style gift certificates for their head shot tournament. The three tournaments were based upon highest number of kills/experience/head shots over X amount of time.

Now they can definitely do something similar to this for PS2, with enough demand.

However, I think we should aim higher. Something cooler and way more realistic, like:

MLG Anaheim 2014 - PS2 Tournament
Featuring 3x fully customized one-thousand-man sound proof booths filled with a total of three thousand of some of the worlds finest gamers (you) squaring off in what's never been done before. A three thousand man 24-hour battle. With a prize pool of.. 2 millio.. wait 10... fuk it, $1 BILLION DOLLARS!!!

Boom, get onboard or gtfo.

Unless you live in Korea, there simply isn't the support base needed for the scale of events PlanetSide would require.

[Notser]

Outfit wars will be in the game at some point, believe higby liked the idea and stated it is a great way of comparing outfits. But lets look at successful e-sport titles, there is really only Starcraft, Dota, Counter-Strike, and Fighters.

Reasons for success
- Limited Team Sizes, being able to watch 2 people play one another really increases the variety of the tournaments and reduces the money required to support players who could earn thousands of dollars over the course of one weekend. Travel expenses and team sizes will limit sponsor interest.

- No silly e-sport rules applied to maintain competition, all the successful games really don't require any weird rules to undermine the vanilla gameplay

- Easy to Understand, set attack/defend paths and obvious wins and loses through healthbars/objectives/army destruction. Makes it easy for spectators to understand the general goal of each match.

- Short games, even Dota games are barely watchable when we have games that last for 40 to 60 min.

I played in a battlefield 1942 tournament setting where teams consisted between 20 to 32 players and that was insanely hard to support with hundreds of players per side. It is just really hard to sustain teams that are larger then 5 people, 5 v 5 isn't planetside.

All for outfit wars, hell having some sort of matchmaking built into the game for variety would be awesome. Could be a great way to introduce players to planetside in a setting that is more familiar such as a COD sized map with objectives with two teams pitted against one another.

[Rumblepit]

i told ya it would happen.

[brighthand]

well this is how it works, they make up the rules, not soe, they decide weapons, not soe, they decide on the number of player, not soe, they decide how many matches and what kinds of matches will be played, not soe. so in a turney you mite see 10 vs 10 nanite wepons only, no tech, death match,secure, resecure, so on so forth. if they pick it up none of you can do anything about.


its simple really, if there is a compitive aspect to the game, which we know for 100% that there will be it wil be looked at. and if its worthy then its on!!!!!!

...Just like DICE took out commander, not EA? DICE sped up the pacing to match COD, not EA? DICE reduced the number of classes, not EA? DICE "lowered the threshhold" not EA? and so on and so forth? Bf3 is the best example of what we are talking about currently. And if you look at the series' history, you will see that the developers, under the heavy hand of EA, were forced to change the game to be something that it was originally never intended to be, (because EA wanted to take out COD- a game that battlefield should not even have been compared to), and thus it turned into trash. This fear runs rampant today in many people because of the very real possibility that such a travesty can befall -your- game, and that is why there is such protest here against these types of changes; if implimented, the results will likely be detrimental.

[sagolsun]

...Just like DICE took out commander, not EA? DICE sped up the pacing to match COD, not EA? DICE reduced the number of classes, not EA? DICE "lowered the threshhold" not EA? and so on and so forth? Bf3 is the best example of what we are talking about currently. And if you look at the series' history, you will see that the developers, under the heavy hand of EA, were forced to change the game to be something that it was originally never intended to be, (because EA wanted to take out COD- a game that battlefield should not even have been compared to), and thus it turned into trash. This fear runs rampant today in many people because of the very real possibility that such a travesty can befall -your- game, and that is why there is such protest here against these types of changes; if implimented, the results will likely be detrimental.

The bad PR SOE got was from incompetence at worst. The PSN thing was a kick in the balls and made them look like fools. And while SOE and Sony BGM are different things, I remember you used to bundle rootkits with your audio CDs.

But that's Sony - big company, sometimes people make really dumb decisions. EA on the other hand is outright evil and malevolent all the way down. Hell, they've even managed to beat Activision in the bad PR department. They were voted worst company in America. It's as if John Ricitello was branwashed into trolling it's customers and driving the company into the ground.

Please don't compare SOE to EA. It's like comparing Richard Nixon to Pol Pot.

[Comet]

Richard Nixon was framed by the CIA.

Discuss.

[NewSith]

Richard Nixon was framed by the CIA.

Discuss.

While it's obviously breaking the forum rules the point of this post I support. We already have 2 giant threads discussing the issue, and it all comes down to saying the same things over and over again.

Also I'd prefer discussing The Dark Knight Rises. The first time I see a sequel of sequel that clearly surpassed the first movie. And the second one too.

[Cutter]

There i no such thing as "esports". There just isn't. Making money to play video games is sweet and all but it's not a sport.

[HitbackTR]

PS2 just like PS1 is not an e-sports title. IF you want e-sports go and play COD, T:A etc. Quit trying to make PS2 into a clone of other major titles such as BF3 etc. As someone who is yet to get into beta my eagerness is fuelled by my want to engage in roving persistent battles , not numerically defined, strictly structured matches between teams. The former is what PS1 offered and delivered upon and I hope that PS2 can offer the same. If it doesnt there is no attraction for me. For instance, to engage in a battle against a numerically superior foe on the fly is what made PS1 unique and you wont get that with an e-sport format being introduced to PS2.

To The devs: Think about what made PS1 unique in the first place; think about what made players play it for hours on end. You need to recreate that feeling and add to it where you can to improve upon that. Adding an e-sport format, (and npc's for that matter) is not how to do this and will be another example of a mistake, i.e., adding BFR's, that SOE have made because it will ultimately detract from the experience that you, SOE, are trying to provide to the player. If you are going to do this SOE you may as well set your own wallet on fire, to save the players from doing it.

In PS1 having the freedom to do as you chose was celebrated and a natural extension of that was playing informal TOD's for bragging rights. This is the only example of something within Planetside that bears a faint resemblance to e-sports, and thats the way it should stay, If it aint broke don't fix it.

[brighthand]

Richard Nixon was framed by the CIA.

Discuss.

LoL!

[Rumblepit]

The bad PR SOE got was from incompetence at worst. The PSN thing was a kick in the balls and made them look like fools. And while SOE and Sony BGM are different things, I remember you used to bundle rootkits with your audio CDs.

But that's Sony - big company, sometimes people make really dumb decisions. EA on the other hand is outright evil and malevolent all the way down. Hell, they've even managed to beat Activision in the bad PR department. They were voted worst company in America. It's as if John Ricitello was branwashed into trolling it's customers and driving the company into the ground.

Please don't compare SOE to EA. It's like comparing Richard Nixon to Pol Pot.


. this can be a issue, but the changes made would only effect the outfit wars system. not the core combat gameplay. leagues would make their own rules.

[Brusi]

PlanetSide 2 - Massive Combat... on a private server... between two clans.

You're killing me! :(

China VS U.S. VS Europe

[roastduck]

Sorry to necro this thread, but I felt I had something actually constructive and viable to add to the discussion.

To all those supporting PS2 as an eSport, I ask you to bear in mind one thing: where is the money going to come from? Just like regular sports, eSports operates as a business. Tournaments are not hosted out of some altruistic vision of eSports. They're hosted because those hosting can make money by doing so.

I just watched the IPL5 StarCraft Grand Finals. The first place winner received $40,000. Second place got $20,000, and third got $11,000. Overall, $100,000 was given in prize money for SC2 alone. Between all games from the event, the prize pool was $300,000. This was JUST PRIZE MONEY. There were also production costs, including the venue (the Cosmopolitan in Las Vegas), production crew (provided by GOMTV from Korea), casters, and media costs. A HUGE investment on behalf of IGN.

Let's indulge the fantasy of PS2 becoming a major supported eSport. What would the format be? Having a full continent with full population is just plain impractical. For the purpose of this example, let's establish that one platoon of four squads per team, for a total of 96 players going 48v48. Each team has its own small warp gate area from which to spawn, and they compete for dominance of one major facility and a small number of adjacent outlying facilities. We could either have a set time limit (say, whoever holds the largest percentage of hexes at the end of 30 or 45 minutes) or a ticket system similar to the Battlefield games (of which I have only played BF2 and BF:BC). This is done on an instanced area specifically intended for eSports use, with no interference from the general server population, and is also available as a private server for practices, scrimmages, and tournament use.

My example is vague, but it works for now.

Now that we have a league set up, what will get people to compete? A wise man once said "If you're good at something, never do it for free." The answer to this question is money. At Dreamhack Winter this year, the Counterstrike: Global Offensive tournament offered a top prize of 150,000 Swedish Krona to a team of 5 players. This converts to a little over $22,000, so just shy of $5000 per player. If we keep with those rates, the top prize in a PS2 tournament would need to be about $240,000, which would give each member of a 48-person team $4000, before taxes. (This assumes the team is independent of a larger organization, which would normally take a large cut). call it an even $250k top prize. Second place would be $125k. Overall, you're looking at a prize pool of about $500,000.

At least with PS2, we wouldn't need to worry about live venues. Unless PS2 reaches the same popularity in all its countries that SC2 has in Korea, there is absolutely no way a single venue would be able to handle enough teams to constitute a major tournament, and if they did it would take forever to go from match to match. And good luck if you try to provide PCs to the participants.

TL;DR

PS2 is nowhere near as popular is it would need to be to garner the financial support to be a major eSport. As awesome as it would be, it just isn't feasible.

[Sunrock]

PS2 will never be able to become a e-sport because of it's design. I believe only PvP games that have a fixed numbers of players on each side and have instant battles can become one.

[Xaine]

I still don't understand why instancing off Zurvan (like the did to show off the game back in early beta) and having two clans of 50 people go at it, wouldn't be an amazing thing to watch.

Constant action the whole way through (LoL suffers from some games being surrendered at 20 mins, even in the competitive scene), loads of different camera angels from Infantry, tanks, aircraft..

As long as this is only once a month, or whatever, i don't see a drawback at all.

[Sledgecrushr]

The way I see it working you would have two squads of competitors maybe 6-12 guys each squad and those two squads would have to take a third empire base. The squad that completes the task wins. Keep going through all the teams until you have an overall winner.

[TacKLed]

soe stealth marketer pls go

[james]

It would have to be a total rework of the game for esports to work, plus some current balance issues, its not esport ready.

[psijaka]

It would have to be a heavily emasculated version of the game to work as an esport, with small squads fighting in a small base. Just like COD TDM, for instance. And that is just not what Planetside 2 is about.

[roastduck]

I still don't understand why instancing off Zurvan (like the did to show off the game back in early beta) and having two clans of 50 people go at it, wouldn't be an amazing thing to watch.

Constant action the whole way through (LoL suffers from some games being surrendered at 20 mins, even in the competitive scene), loads of different camera angels from Infantry, tanks, aircraft..

As long as this is only once a month, or whatever, i don't see a drawback at all.

I agree 100% that it would be amazing to see and participate, but unless organizers manage to front enough money to make it worthwhile, tournament winners won't get much more than a "Good job. Here's a gold star." You won't see the level of professionalism or support that you see in other games. It would be VERY difficult for someone to make PS2 their primary source of income, even more difficult than "established" games like SC2 or LoL

It would have to be a total rework of the game for esports to work, plus some current balance issues, its not esport ready.

I don't think a total rework would be needed. Just a separate, smaller area where the fight would occur. And the balance issues, which is a constant in all competitive games. Even in SC2, which has been around since 2008, there is still a huge debate about balance

[Ritual]

I don't care if there are cash prizes.

I like competition though. And if there is a formal competition process, I support it.

I would like to see tournament maps, with PvP seasons. Like every 3 months there is a week long tournament. The top 50 outfits as determined by some kind of statistic system in the normal world are pitted against one another in these 12v12, 24v24, 64v64 whatever tournament instances which is just like two outposts who have to try and capture one another. The winner at the end get's to wear special armor or something. Gold for first, silver for second, bronze for third. Until the next tournament where they have to win again to keep the armor. Maybe they could get a free weapon of their choice for winning, etc.

The only tournament that should have a cash prize is 1v1.

[roastduck]

Ritual, I think that would actually be a good start. Once we get press releases naming tournament victors, people will know who the "top dogs" are and PS2 streams will get more attention.

[FortySe7en]

but apart from StarCraft in South Korea and DoTA there are no real ESports,


This exploded all my brain cells in a single swipe. I can't believe the amount of "whutchu talkin bout willis" in that statement.

So...wrong.....

[Rolfski]

I can understand the drive of outfits to directly duke it out with each other to see "who's best".
I can even imagine two full platoons fighting over a base in a controlled environment being entertaining to watch.

However, that doesn't necessarily make PS2 a good candidate for a regular e-sport. Making a regular arena of PS2 not only feels detached from the core experience, it might actually hurt that core experience. When outfits start fighting for money in regular "pro" competitions, chances are you won't see them much anymore on your Connery, Mattherson or Miller server as they need to train in their arena's. So what you effectively accomplish then is breaking up this game into a vanilla one and an arena/ e-sports variant. And that is NOT what you want in a persistent world game.

There is a reason why Eve Online does these Alliance Tournaments only occasionally: For the rest of the time they want these alliances playing on the Eve Online server and not drawn away by some e-sport league.

[roastduck]

There is a reason why Eve Online does these Alliance Tournaments only occasionally: For the rest of the time they want these alliances playing on the Eve Online server and not drawn away by some e-sport league.

I think the core mechanics of teamwork and coordination would transfer from the main server into competition nicely. The thing that would make it both stand out as an eSport and keep it in line with the core mechanic of the game (massive combat) is having much larger teams than other FPS titles

[Stanis]

I think esport gets a nod right now with the embedding of tools to stream to twitch or hd/youtube.

That's about it. Major detraction from the game as a whole to focus on esports.
That might be what a subset of players and outfits are interested in - but taking the game from the scale of thousands down to 100 players puts in the same token format as a BF or COD map. I think if Sony try to compete in that market they lose to the non-MMO games that do instanced and time-limited zones (a map/round) much better.

For now esport in PS2 might not be sponsored or generating cash prizes for 'top' players.
But what it is doing is driving a web 2.0 style viral adverstising campaign.
Youtube videos and Twitch streams made by fans with fps gamers following them are a good target demographic.

[Sledgecrushr]

I dont know why it couldnt be small teams verusus third empire. I know it would be different than other esports but planetside 2 is different from other fps games. The way I would set it up would be a team of pro nc and a team of pro tr trying to take a vanu base. The teams would be simultaneously fighting the other team and a third faction. I think this would make good tv.