Indoor Combat?

[SniperSteve]

So after looking at the footage it *seems* that there is not much close quarters indoor combat anymore. Even the tech plant which Higby mentioned as one of the bigger indoor fighting areas looks very spacious, almost like an outdoors area with a roof over it.

My question is: Will we see any areas where the combat is really close quarters, like the bases were in PS1 with the stairwells and corridors? Also, if PS2 will not feature that type of combat, is this a good or bad thing?


Personally, I am interested to see how it plays out in beta, but I am also more than slightly concerned with such a focus on vehicle combat how the infantry aspect of the game will work. It is a FPS after all, not world of tanks. Anyway, I'm looking forward to see what it is like in beta and hoping that there will be plenty of indoor combat areas that offer both a mid-long range combat such as the bit of the Tech Plant that we saw as well as close quarter combat like we had in PS1. I like to get up close and personal with my enemies. ^_^

Discuss..

[SKYeXile]

considering they plan to up the amount of people, i never thought bases were gonna be like they were in PS1, the game has changed, in planetside infantry could take a hit and duel it out and force through a chockepout, in games like this with a faster TTK you cant really do that, its about who get the jump on who, funnelling down a long corridor into guys with rifles trained down it while they're hiding behind cover is a sure recipe for RAGEEEEEEEEEE!...also theres way more people per map.

seriously just try to imagine playing BFBC2 but taking an interlink facility against dug in defenders. gonna be more aids than it was in ps.

oh well more people outside to cut down with my scythe.

[Dairian]

I also am a close combat player. 90% of my time was spent in Rexo/HA MCG. and the other 10% was traveling to the ground fights. The base did look more like mid-long range. I remember the alpha game play video where Higby was playing in a bio dome and it looked like some good close combat. Looks like they just made the tech more of a mid range. Hopefully the other tower Higby talked about is more close combat than the one in the vid.

[kaffis]

The different base types will promote different types of play. The Tech Plant is infantry-centric, long-range fighting due to its large, open indoor spaces.

The towers will be somewhat less so; they contain more choke points, but still have short "hallways" (the stairwells) and relatively few doors.

Presumably, the Biolabs will favor closer quarters, as well.

In any event, the variety is a good thing, and steering away from the ultra-close-quarters, all the time that PS1 base design promoted is a good thing, because it really heavily favored close range guns by not giving rifles room to be useful. Even the tower has a variety of effective combat ranges represented, so this is a very good thing.

[Turdicus]

Aye, I remember seeing a concept of the inside of a biodome and it looked to be a very interesting close quarters kind of place. With the number of people playing now I'm sure the devs were aware that having an abundance of close range situations is a bad decision. But it makes sense that there will be plenty of places where a close range weapon will shine; maybe at some control panels, underground sections we haven't seen yet, and chokepoints near doorways.

We will see

[aleksandrgrc]

i used the creates to hid alot as an infiltrator. not just for hacking but just picking a guy off here or there. i like adding to the im never safe aspect infiltrators bring. maybe some pillars in some areas or something.

thats my 2

[Higby]

We have a lot of CQC, but it's more heavily tilted towards an "urban" building to building setting than the super tight room-corridor-room type layouts form PS1 for the exact reasons SKYeXile stated. The biolab is a very tight "interior" map, but it's also fairly open with many buildings that you move between and over as well as through - so while the fighting is extremely close range there aren't any long one way paths so the map feels more fluid and rotational than A-to-B-to-C. Like modern military conquest vs. rush maps.

[Bags]

Thanks for the clarification, higby.

[VoodooJanus]

I dunno, seeing the 45 min video, attacking the base as a NC footslogger, it looks like there's a decent amount of close, indoor combat in and around the bases. As they've said- each base is the equivalent of a standard COD map, so there should be some good CQC. I think the only parts of the bases that are particularly open are the actual control rooms, replacing easily defendable corridors with wider, cover-heavy courtyards, so the defense is forced to be fluid rather than 'stand here and shoot at whatever comes.'

[SKYeXile]

I dunno, seeing the 45 min video, attacking the base as a NC footslogger, it looks like there's a decent amount of close, indoor combat in and around the bases. As they've said- each base is the equivalent of a standard COD map, so there should be some good CQC. I think the only parts of the bases that are particularly open are the actual control rooms, replacing easily defendable corridors with wider, cover-heavy courtyards, so the defense is forced to be fluid rather than 'stand here and shoot at whatever comes.'

yea but i think people were expecting more indoor, vehicle free combat.

[SgtMAD]

I dunno, seeing the 45 min video, attacking the base as a NC footslogger, it looks like there's a decent amount of close, indoor combat in and around the bases. As they've said- each base is the equivalent of a standard COD map, so there should be some good CQC. I think the only parts of the bases that are particularly open are the actual control rooms, replacing easily defendable corridors with wider, cover-heavy courtyards, so the defense is forced to be fluid rather than 'stand here and shoot at whatever comes.'

you all are going to love that outdoor fighting until guys like Sky and the rest of that ilk come along and farm the shit out of you.

a lot of these new guys don't have clue about whats going to happen,if they all play like the zergs all did in PS then there will be much crying on the forums.

[Turdicus]

sigh, mad, wtf are you talking about

[Zekeen]

We have a lot of CQC, but it's more heavily tilted towards an "urban" building to building setting than the super tight room-corridor-room type layouts form PS1 for the exact reasons SKYeXile stated. The biolab is a very tight "interior" map, but it's also fairly open with many buildings that you move between and over as well as through - so while the fighting is extremely close range there aren't any long one way paths so the map feels more fluid and rotational than A-to-B-to-C. Like modern military conquest vs. rush maps.

Kinda wish we could get one, just one, base just as cruddily built and hard to navigate as the PS1 bases. With tight corridors that kill you off like a stormtrooper in the first 5 minutes of Star Wars.

[SgtMAD]

sigh, mad, wtf are you talking about

I am not a big air/cav whore and I can see all sorts of ways air is going to farm the hell out of ppl,all those open decks on the tower,the open "design" of the tower,hell pull a couple of libs and just nose gun the interior of the tower,hover up high and use the 150 to shoot ppl running out of the spawn rooms at that tech plant.

these guys are going to show up with a shitload of air in a pack,eliminate every threat to them and then start in on the infantry,they will kill 3/4 times their numbers before they die or bug out to repp up.

wash/rinse/repeat over and over again.

after a while some ppl will get smart,not everyone will stand around and get farmed by air but history has shown us,alot of ppl will stand around and ..............

[SKYeXile]

sigh, mad, wtf are you talking about

I AM THE REAVER QUEEN!

[Turdicus]

I am not a big air/cav whore and I can see all sorts of ways air is going to farm the hell out of ppl,all those open decks on the tower,the open "design" of the tower,hell pull a couple of libs and just nose gun the interior of the tower,hover up high and use the 150 to shoot ppl running out of the spawn rooms at that tech plant.

these guys are going to show up with a shitload of air in a pack,eliminate every threat to them and then start in on the infantry,they will kill 3/4 times their numbers before they die or bug out to repp up.

wash/rinse/repeat over and over again.

after a while some ppl will get smart,not everyone will stand around and get farmed by air but history has shown us,alot of ppl will stand around and ..............

Ah, thats what you're talking about :D

Well yeah, air cav certainly seems to be as important as ever in zone control. I'm loathe to use alpha footage as an example of ttk, but those fighters died really fast to the mag cannon and anti air secondary gun. I don't know how air cav is going to play out in PS2, but it looks like at least for the moment there are powerful counters to air spams in the form of the tanks, especially since in similar alpha videos it takes several passes to take out a tank with missiles using a fighter. Personally I like to believe that there will be powerful options for infantry and max units as well, hopefully we arent quite as helpless as you make us out to be.

[Death2All]

I'm liking the lack of CQC areas in PS2. ToDs and interfarms were the bane of PS1. All they did was degenerate the game into a chaotic spamfest. This amplified due to the fact that towers and claustrophobic base designs were prevalent over the entirety of every single map in the game.


I don't mind the occasional ToD or interfarm myself, but constant exposure to them was just mundane and brain numbing after awhile.

[SKYeXile]

its going to be interesting and i doubt ill be able to jam my 12mm into a doorway and rackup kills(ill try though) my favourite part of gaming is the planning of germy specs and equipping my shit in the right away though, and looking at the stats of the results afterwards...you would think i like playing the game the most...but i dont.

[SgtMAD]

I was watching those tanks maneuvering and the magrider trying to track that aircraft and they might get one air kill but while he is looking one way he is a sitting duck because when they try to drive and look up to see the air they will be hitting crap the whole time. the solo tank guys are just going to be easy fodder for air/cav

you are going to see outfits that spend all their time in the air

[SniperSteve]

Thanks for the response, Higby.

I think I agree with your approach to it, and if you guys manage to pull off CQC as well as you do vehicle combat, it will be a really solid game on all fronts.

Oh, and was there a way to get inside of the top of the Tech Plant? Looks like the windows up there would provide an epic vista.

Also, put some catwalks out to the aircraft landing pads on the tower, looks like a frustration to get back and forth between them.

[VoodooJanus]

The problem is, I'm pretty sure the air vehicles are going to be the most resource intensive to spawn, and considering how quickly they went down to the (albeit high-powered) secondary Magrider weapons, I don't think there will be too big of a problem. Furthermore, infantry are probably going to be pretty difficult to pick out at night, particularly in the more confined spaces.

I trust them to balance well :)

[Timealude]

The problem is, I'm pretty sure the air vehicles are going to be the most resource intensive to spawn, and considering how quickly they went down to the (albeit high-powered) secondary Magrider weapons, I don't think there will be too big of a problem. Furthermore, infantry are probably going to be pretty difficult to pick out at night, particularly in the more confined spaces.

I trust them to balance well :)

well when you see tracer rounds coming at you, you would prolly be best to fire in that area, also who knows we might have night vision for aircraft.

[SKYeXile]

well when you see tracer rounds coming at you, you would prolly be best to fire in that area, also who knows we might have night vision for aircraft.

Well there was the option to display enemy vehicles and aircraft on your HUD so yea. I think we could see night vision.

[Zenben]

I dunno about you guys, but I'm never getting out of my Scythe :love:

[MacXXcaM]

It is a FPS after all, not world of tanks.

It's a combined arms shooter. Personally, as an infanterist, fighting along with tanks and planes is always the most fun for me. Infantry only fighting is a thing that can be quite amusing from time to time but I hope most of the time I'm outside.

[Zekeen]

It's a combined arms shooter. Personally, as an infanterist, fighting along with tanks and planes is always the most fun for me. Infantry only fighting is a thing that can be quite amusing from time to time but I hope most of the time I'm outside.

Don't worry, I think you're going to learn is that all of us pilots are ABSOLUTELY INSANE!

You might not be fighting with just infantry, even indoors!

[Timealude]

Don't worry, I think you're going to learn is that all of us pilots are ABSOLUTELY INSANE!

You might not be fighting with just infantry, even indoors!

this...during the video i was already trying to figure out a way to fly a scythe into the tech plant.

[DOUBLEXBAUGH]

this...during the video i was already trying to figure out a way to fly a scythe into the tech plant.

Through the giant vehicle door, then hover up to the second floor and start turreting infantry that don't have AA equipped because they are inside :P

[Notser]

just like beggar's canyon back home boys! anyone who's played bf3 knows of the long tunnel map where helos could fly inside, I'd like to believe i'm a professional indoor pilot. but I will say that vanu will have a massive advantage in this with a vehicle that stops on a dime.

[Zekeen]

this...during the video i was already trying to figure out a way to fly a scythe into the tech plant.

&%^$ Your scythe! I'm pushing a Galaxy up that bases rear end!!!!! MUWHAHAHA!

just like beggar's canyon back home boys! anyone who's play bf3 knows of the long tunnel map where helos could fly inside, I'd like to believe i'm a professional indoor pilot. but I will say that vanu will have a massive advantage in this with a vehicle that stops on a dime.

I'm surprised I saw this happen so often. And to think, our VTOLs will hover MUCH more efficiently and are more compact!

[Levente]

People whine when theres is close quarters and meatgrinding corridors.
People whine when there are Huge continent maps + more infantry combat focused gameplay.
Then people whine when theres not enough close quarter meatgrinding corridorfights.

I dont want to live on this planet anymore...

[Mechzz]

People whine when theres is close quarters and meatgrinding corridors.
People whine when there are Huge continent maps + more infantry combat focused gameplay.
Then people whine when theres not enough close quarter meatgrinding corridorfights.

I dont want to live on this planet anymore...

But soon, soon, you will get to shoot them all! And that will make up for a lot of the whining, won't it?

[DOUBLEXBAUGH]

People whine when theres is close quarters and meatgrinding corridors.
People whine when there are Huge continent maps + more infantry combat focused gameplay.
Then people whine when theres not enough close quarter meatgrinding corridorfights.

I dont want to live on this planet anymore...

Different people like different things, who knew?

[Notser]

Also consider that there isn't another option, planetside literally is the only one of its kind so we must love and support it but we also want it to be the best it can be!

[T MAN]

Aparrently there are no doors in the future, which is crazy because the tech plant is wide open to just fly in and spam away. The tower from the looks can be subdued from the likes of the liberator and the now confirmed galaxy gunship, cause the sides are wide open to just shoot in.

In planetside 1 the doors protected you from fire power and guarded you once they shut and the cc, respawn room, gen room were all guarded by doors that would lock and would have to be hacked to get in.

In PS2 even the cc's are now all wide open plain as day, I dont know about you but i would think the future buildings would have some sorta door mechanic or something to guard them. Not just wide open, like "oh hey come on in, hack our stuff take what you need".

If you guys remember the titan in BF2142 it had 4 cc's that you had to destroy to get to open the door that then lead to the gen room.

Maybe well get something like the titan with what we've seen in that concept art with that big ship in the sky, Now that would be awesome.

[Notser]

Aparrently there are no doors in the future, which is crazy because the tech plant is wide open to just fly in and spam away. The tower from the looks can be subdued from the likes of the liberator and the now confirmed galaxy gunship, cause the sides are wide open to just shoot in.

In planetside 1 the doors protected you from fire power and guarded you once they shut and the cc, respawn room, gen room were all guarded by doors that would lock and would have to be hacked to get in.

In PS2 even the cc's are now all wide open plain as day, I dont know about you but i would think the future buildings would have some sorta door mechanic or something to guard them. Not just wide open, like "oh hey come on in, hack our stuff take what you need".

If you guys remember the titan in BF2142 it had 4 cc's that you had to destroy to get to open the door that then lead to the gen room.

Maybe well get something like the titan with what we've seen in that concept art with that big ship in the sky, Now that would be awesome.

Would you have a door if you couldn't die? Doors are so hard, you need to open AND close them all the time. Much easier to just let the intruder inside to do his bidding so you can respawn faster, better to just let him kill you rather than fight it.

[Dreamcast]

Weren't people saying last time when Planetside 2 first 45 minute video was released that it was too close combat?.....Some even said it was CoD like.


That map seemed pretty closed combat to me so it seems close quarters is in

[Xyntech]

I suspect that aircraft will have a harder time farming in those close quarters areas than some people are suggesting. Still possible for them to have an impact, but I'm doubting they will destroy the CQC.

The main reason I think they are going for a more open urban combat style is to make sure that classes like Infiltrators and Light Assault have alternative routes to take, so that everything isn't bottlenecked into tight corridors where only Rexo(HA) and MAXes could survive long enough to contribute much to the fight.

I think it will play out pretty good. If nothing else, they can actually modify bases this time around, so if they need to add some more roofs and cover against vehicles, it will be possible.

[Hamma]

Per what Higby said when I played there was definitely a huge focus on building to building combat rather than indoor fighting. Most bases will be building to building firefights in order to capture them.

[Brusi]

I wouldn't be surprised if a smattering of cover being placed throughout the Tech-Plant allowed for more of the CQC that we are used to, for example when taking an original Tech Plant.

Just with players having to move from cover to cover, rather than just corridor to corridor.

[Hamma]

Aye for sure.

It's going to make for some interesting tactics - can't wait to get in there with a bunch of folks.

[Xyntech]

I may be biased, but personally I think it's going to make certain base fights a lot more fun to occasionally have to worry about aircav spamming you as you run from one building section to the next.

Although it wont be so fun if it ends up happening all the time. I just don't see that happening with all the available cover we've seen though. Not like PS1 bases where being outdoors in a base fight often equaled getting farmed.

[kaffis]

I sure hope the beta population isn't as heavily biased towards aircav as the veterans around here are.

I mean, I get WHY the veterans are biased towards aircavs -- reavers and mossies grew to be way powerful as the average cert-count went up and everybody could afford it.

But I'd rather see Planetside 2 reach a more balanced distribution of play than late-game PS1.

[Xyntech]

I sure hope the beta population isn't as heavily biased towards aircav as the veterans around here are.

I mean, I get WHY the veterans are biased towards aircavs -- reavers and mossies grew to be way powerful as the average cert-count went up and everybody could afford it.

But I'd rather see Planetside 2 reach a more balanced distribution of play than late-game PS1.

I agree, but I'm not a long term vet either. Mostly played during BR20/25 days. I've always loved aircav.

[Death2All]

I sure hope the beta population isn't as heavily biased towards aircav as the veterans around here are.

I mean, I get WHY the veterans are biased towards aircavs -- reavers and mossies grew to be way powerful as the average cert-count went up and everybody could afford it.

But I'd rather see Planetside 2 reach a more balanced distribution of play than late-game PS1.

A lot of the hate from veterans towards Air Cav is a result of the stigma that they're kill whore vehicles that are essentially anti-everything with no real drawbacks. I did a whole lot of Reaver/Mossi farming and I can definitely say they were overpowered to a degree. But that's more of a flaw in game design to some extent, other factors like that games coding and connections also come into play.


They said they wanted to drift away from the "flying camera" flight mechanics that were prevalent in PS1, and they were instead shifting towards more realistic flight mechanics. From what I've seen, the flying camera gameplay still persists, especially with the Scythe, but I think the Scythe's mechanics are sort of based around that.

Maybe we can assume that flight mechanics aren't yet finished. Either way, I'll certainly be doing a lot of Scythe whoring.... Sywhoring?

[SGTalon]

Pretty sure the fact that every vehicle can have anti-air is going to keep the air rather open. Or they are going to have to be a lot sneakier.

The video showed that all of the smaller details are still to be worked out. I guarantee all of those facilities are going to be full of stuff to add cover for CQB. The tower was obviously totally empty.

I do hope there is some sort of door though. Maybe not a physical one but maybe a shield type or something. Otherwise the MAX crash is going to be the only tactic. Run 10 Maxes in a door and kill everything.

[Masahiko]

Pretty sure the fact that every vehicle can have anti-air is going to keep the air rather open. Or they are going to have to be a lot sneakier.

The video showed that all of the smaller details are still to be worked out. I guarantee all of those facilities are going to be full of stuff to add cover for CQB. The tower was obviously totally empty.

I do hope there is some sort of door though. Maybe not a physical one but maybe a shield type or something. Otherwise the MAX crash is going to be the only tactic. Run 10 Maxes in a door and kill everything.

It wouldn't hurt to have some more blocking at the doors of the tower we saw in the video. As the game progresses i sure Pilot will be able to line up missiles to hit the entry (as we had from the reavers in PS1) to just shoot inside. It is something i could foresee being a problem on the outskirts of closed and open bases. Its just something that well have to wait for beta for.

[Turdicus]

Yeah open doors did seem to be there, perhaps they are ditching moving doors and allowing only force fields and such. Thats futuristic! And the max crash is always the right tactic....always

[Gonefshn]

I love what the indoor combat looks like in this game but I have only 1 concern.

Most of the open indoor areas and even the CY type areas seem to have lots of flanks, walls, doors, etc. but not a lot of true "cover" meaning something I can duck behind and shoot over. things like rocks, windows, sandbags, whatever are more common in something like BF3 and I love having more things to duck behind. Instead of going around corners all the time it's nice to be able to shoot over something once in a while. Maybe I just haven't seen enough footage and there is more of that stuff than it looks like but I think more small cover should definitely be added.

[Hamma]

Pretty sure the fact that every vehicle can have anti-air is going to keep the air rather open. Or they are going to have to be a lot sneakier.

This.

[Rbstr]

Base interior fights in PS1 quickly turned into stupidity once the populations reached a saturation point.

If they were to return, they need to either add many more alternate routes or retool the concept to expand the area available and include cover in the corridors.

[Masahiko]

I would have liked to have seen a few of the stronger choke points for infantry combat inside the bases. One the things i remember clearly was opening a door to a semi circle of Locked down TR maxses. Nobody made it past that door as a recall.