Auto-refilling tank shells

[Athanasios]

Obviously seen in TB live stream, the shells refill after a short time. I don't know if it's there just for testing purposes, but i hope they don't make it in the final release. 80-100 shells (that can be more with a cert) are enough to carry out a whole battle WHILE still giving that little "touch" of realism; you need to control where & why you are shooting, not a careless endless spam. Also, refilling in nearby stations & supply docks come into play.

I do hope this auto-refilling (just like vehicle regen) do not make it in the final way. By putting a bit more realism in there you do not turn an arcade fps into ArmA; but if you rip off any realistic element, the game will just don't last in time.

Just my 2 cents.

[Death2All]

Yeah I wasn't really digging how much vehicles seem to have a salvo of ammo they shoot off then it is automatically reloaded after a few seconds versus the old style of just having a pool of ammo to shoot shells off. I suppose the latter would lead to more spamage and the first would induce a more tactical nature to firing your shots off.


I don't know, I'll have to actually play with that before I judge it.

[Stardouser]

This is about ammo regen or unlimited ammo right? That's one thing we don't need.

[Xyntech]

This seems more important for something like an ES fighter than a tank to me.

A Reaver in PS1 was well balanced by the fact that it frequently had to go rearm (although it also had the speed to do so easily). A tank didn't have to do so as frequently, so I'm not sure if it would impact gameplay that drastically.

Personally I'm not a fan of auto regenerating shit, so on principle I'm against it, but as Death2All said, I do want to try it in practice before condemning it entirely.

Is this another thing like auto-repair where it will eventually be implemented as a trade off. Regenerating ammo, but you can't carry as much ammo (so you deplete and need to regenerate quicker) and you can't carry some other useful module? It may be a nice form of variety if that's the case.

Definitely something to keep an eye on and keep the devs aware of concerns about it.

[Stardouser]

This seems more important for something like an ES fighter than a tank to me.

A Reaver in PS1 was well balanced by the fact that it frequently had to go rearm (although it also had the speed to do so easily). A tank didn't have to do so as frequently, so I'm not sure if it would impact gameplay that drastically.

Personally I'm not a fan of auto regenerating shit, so on principle I'm against it, but as Death2All said, I do want to try it in practice before condemning it entirely.

Unless you're suggesting that most tanks will die far before unlimited/regenerating ammo has a ridiculous effect, it's a problem.

I also wonder if flares and smoke shells should be unlimited(as they appear to be).

[Brusi]

Sorry, i didn't really notice the ammo usage from the stream. Would someone like to explain to me the current system, as observed?

I really don't like the idea of unlimited ammo, except perhaps in real life.

[MrBloodworth]

You should have to go restock. Get rid of this auto Rearming Crap.

[Athanasios]

Sorry, i didn't really notice the ammo usage from the stream. Would someone like to explain to me the current system, as observed?

I really don't like the idea of unlimited ammo, except perhaps in real life.
As of now, firing couple shells > auto regen after couple seconds. So, in the stream it was like 84 max rounds if i recall well, he fired couple rounds down to 76 and after couple seconds he had max ammo again.

[Brusi]

Hmm... sounds pretty lame. I wouldn't expect that to stay as it is. We better rattle some chains and shit to bring attention to it. Just in case they were hoping it would slip past us! haha

[FastAndFree]

Logically, this is either an admin trick or an upgrade module (I sure hope not)

If ammo regenerated that fast by default why would there be an ammo count in the first place

[Brusi]

which is why i'm thinking that they just haven't gotten around to designing and balancing the final system.

They are just IDDQD'ing it for a while for dev. which is cool ;)

[Xyntech]

Unless you're suggesting that most tanks will die far before unlimited/regenerating ammo has a ridiculous effect, it's a problem.

Just speaking from experience in PS1, the tanks in that game could generally carry enough ammo that they only ever had to go resupply if they had a very long and successful run. It still happened quite a bit, but it wasn't a significant part of the minute to minute gameplay.

This contrasts with aircraft which had very limited ammunition and had to frequently go back for more ammo.

So while I do agree that it could be a problem, it's not as large of a problem is it would be for stuff with lower ammo caps, like aircraft, or like flare or smoke modules, which I agree would be better off needing to be restocked instead of auto regenerating.

[Greeniegriz]

Another reason to have the Lodestar back: Rearming tanks

In the stream Higby mentioned they (Lodestars) might be implemented to be vehicle spawn points (not sure if its land only or land/air). So having a limited ammo supply would create the logistical need for having a Lodestar nearby (aside from spawning).

Cheers,

GG

[Coreldan]

I personally expected that this "600 rocket Reaver" and all similar things are mainly just remainings of tests, I doubt they will leave the numbers like that in the final game.

Almost like complaining about spawning vehicles in the middle of nowhere through admin commands, as if we had those in the final game for US to use :D

[T MAN]

Not good at all, another thing taken from battlefield 3. what i dont understand is that infantry has limited ammo and grenades and stuff and have to resupply but air and tanks dont have to at all while being unlimited, just doesnt make sense to make the most powerful things in a game unlimited.

Never did like that in BF3, Battlefield 2/ BF1942 did it way better, where you had to go back to your base to resupply for heli, jets, and tanks.

[Coreldan]

Simply have it so that any repair terminals will refill ammo (now that the drag and drop inventory is gone) and then perhaps for infantry come up with something that allows to refill on the field, perhaps some engi mobile repair terminal.

I really have hard time believing they would 1) leave the ammo capacities as high as we've seen on some videos 2) that they would really make vehicles have self renewing ammo, why have ammo in the first place then?

[Xyntech]

I personally expected that this "600 rocket Reaver" and all similar things are mainly just remainings of tests, I doubt they will leave the numbers like that in the final game.

Almost like complaining about spawning vehicles in the middle of nowhere through admin commands, as if we had those in the final game for US to use :D

Sometimes it's hard to tell what is for testing and what is intentional. But all of these stats can certainly be tweaked once beta starts. It's the core ideas that interest me more, not the specific stat balances. Those can easily be tweaked at any time, and most will likely be wrong at the start of beta in one way or another, no matter if we dictate what we think they should be or if the devs do.

[Rbstr]

I'm OK with it being a module, though the speed at which it regens needs to be considered carefully. BF3 style where you simply keep reloading forever is not what I'd like to see.

Thinking about PS1...I rarely ever had ammo problems in a ground vehicle so there's not much functional difference. With aircraft, on the other hand, a limited payload seems more important.

[basti]

im 999% certain (yes, nine nine nine) that this is a temporary dev thing. Otherwise having a ammo count in the first place doesnt make any sense. On top of that, the Sunderer is apperently also a mobile vehicle repair and rearm station (if you equip it that way), so auto ammo would deny its existence.

[Goku]

In PS you could go run after run without needing a refill. Maybe on my 6th I would just due to starting to get a bit low. This isn't a big deal at all. Most tanks in PS normally got blown up before even running out.

[MrBloodworth]

In PS you could go run after run without needing a refill. Maybe on my 6th I would just due to starting to get a bit low. This isn't a big deal at all. Most tanks in PS normally got blown up before even running out.

Yes, but part of that was the ability to load however much/what ever type you wanted into the trunk. Some, even removed ammo for other tools. We do not have this option in PS1. While its true that many tanks never lasted long enough to need re-arming. It certainly was not everyone. But does that justify have auto-ream ( If its found not to be just a dev thing ).

[Rbstr]

But does that justify have auto-ream ( If its found not to be just a dev thing ).

Does the fact that some tanks do survive that long justify not having auto re-arm?
If it makes no real difference either way it doesn't matter: The null-hypothesis isn't rejected.

This all depends on the rate of ammo consumption and regen as well as the amount of ammo the tanks starts off with. All things that we simply don't know at this point given the nature of the footage we have access too.

In ps1 tanks came with enough ammo that for an overwhelming majority of cases you had plenty of ammo. Ammo regen in that case makes no real difference. If the tanks would have had more restricted ammo counts that would likely not be the case.

[MrBloodworth]

Does the fact that some tanks do survive that long justify not having auto re-arm?

Yes, as a matter of fact. If logistics matter. You have to drive somewhere to rearm. This is a risk avoided with auto-regen. If the goal is to remove the need to think about this beforehand, then no.

This is one of those things I place right next to no longer needing to think about bringing the right tool for the job. All tools do all jobs.

All this seems to go hand in hand with removing anything keeping people out of the "PEW PEW". A mentality I do not share.

[Eyeklops]

I remember dumping all but 1 box of PPA ammo and filling the trunk with Rail gun ammo for the mag, then running out, allot. Could really care less if we have unlimited or not. I will play either. Probably would prefer unlimited.

[SpcFarlen]

im 999% certain (yes, nine nine nine) that this is a temporary dev thing. Otherwise having a ammo count in the first place doesnt make any sense. On top of that, the Sunderer is apperently also a mobile vehicle repair and rearm station (if you equip it that way), so auto ammo would deny its existence.

This.

I think people are taking what they see in these dev vidoes a bit too much as being a "shipped" feature. Remember they are doing gameplay testing and showing off key features. I wouldnt want a small 20 v 20 skirmish ending because both sides ran out of ammo because no one has, or could have specced, for ammo packs during a gameplay demo.

Before you scream foul wait for the ball to cross the line. That line being beta. This is still in Alpha. Even the E3 coverage wich we will see is pretty much an Alpha because of its constraints.

[Gonefshn]

I don't think they will do that to us. Matt has talked a lot about logistics being a super important thing in the design of PS2 so having tanks with ammo counts makes sense.

I agree with everyone who thinks it will change, im not too worried about it. But if it doesn't change that really sucks.

[Coreldan]

Even if they didnt think about changing it right now, I'm fairly sure we can talk em over in beta.

but I still dont think they intend to keep it that way.