Concept to Model - What happened? [Archive]

LostAlgorithm

2012-06-01, 04:17 PM

Take a look at the new NC Female Medic concept art here:

http://www.planetside-universe.com/media/album/q4q5tnh4w8/20120601_4fc90b288aff8.jpg

Looks pretty badass, huh? Cool, unique color scheme with interesting lines. Complex looking armor. Very nice, no?

Now look at the actual model here:

http://www.planetside-universe.com/media/album/vmscby2n9f/20120601_4fc90b86245d4.jpg

Looks kinda...bland and boring...huh? What happened in the transition from concept to have such a negative effect?

This seem quite common with the NC stuff especially. Love, love, love the concept art, but the actual in-game stuff is just...meh.

The Kush

2012-06-01, 04:20 PM

hmm i agree idk thats interesting, maybe they ran out of time to add the extra flare you see in the concept art

Biohazard

2012-06-01, 04:20 PM

The same thing that happened to the VS max?

EDIT*

http://www.planetside-universe.com/media/album/vmscby2n9f/20120525_4fbfb8eaba7ef.jpg

http://www.planetside-universe.com/media/album/uuec3rydkg/vs_max.jpg

Fuse

2012-06-01, 04:21 PM

Looks incredibly similar to me. The main difference I see is that the lines don't accentuate the breasts as much and the pants don't look low-rise or whatever. I can support both of those changes.

Gonefshn

2012-06-01, 04:22 PM

the only things that are different really are the arm's color and the lack of the mask.

though I agree it doesn't really look as neat in execution.

KnightHawk ECID

2012-06-01, 04:24 PM

You guys are forgetting that there is cosmetic armor customization that probably adds different looks possibly like the concept art.

Bags

2012-06-01, 04:24 PM

I assume most of the models they show us are BR1 with 0 customization. How will they sell aesthetics if you look like a badass for free?

Biohazard

2012-06-01, 04:27 PM

The diffrences of the NC medic:

The arms are twigs
The gloves have no armor plates
The overall size of the armor plates have been reduced
The shoulder guards sit very high
The boots turned into shoes

Edit*
The padding under the armor has been reduced
The arms lost their color
The pants went from camouflage to plain cloth
The helmet lost 50% of its geometry
And the pouches have been pushed further to the sides of the belt.

Fuse

2012-06-01, 04:30 PM

The diffrences of the NC medic:

The arms are twigs
The gloves have no armor plates
The overall size of the armor plates have been reduced
The shoulder guards sit very high
The boots turned into shoes

The sleeves are more form fitting. I'll have to see the model in action to really decide if they're something I dislike.
Most of the armor changes are because the model could not be animated as it was drawn with out severe clipping issues.
In what universe are those shoes? The original boots made her look deformed. (I think they were supposed to be high-heeled boots. rofl)

I admit the gloves looked better in concept, but maybe they just didn't feel it was worth the added polygons? (Same story with the helmet, I'd imagine. That or the silhouette was too similar to something else.).

LostAlgorithm

2012-06-01, 04:31 PM

Looks incredibly similar to me. The main difference I see is that the lines don't accentuate the breasts as much and the pants don't look low-rise or whatever. I can support both of those changes.

The helmet and shoulders are smaller and look a bit lame in comparison.

The lines that the colors follow are much less unique, including far fewer highlights. Perhaps customization will make up for this, but why pick such a bland one as your standard color scheme? Sure, it might encourage people to buy the customization, but it makes the faction look pretty lame in comparison overall.

The medic symbol was made much less interesting.

Similar in design? Sure, but they come across far differently. So, what happened?

LostAlgorithm

2012-06-01, 04:33 PM

I assume most of the models they show us are BR1 with 0 customization. How will they sell aesthetics if you look like a badass for free?

TR and VS look pretty badass for free. It's mostly just the NC that look a little bit lacking. Only exception? The NC MAX which is loaded to the teeth with armor, as NC should be.

Fuse

2012-06-01, 04:39 PM

TR and VS look pretty badass for free. It's mostly just the NC that look a little bit lacking. Only exception? The NC MAX which is loaded to the teeth with armor, as NC should be.

I much prefer the look of the NC over the TR. It's all personal preference. Maybe you're just fighting for the wrong team? :p

LostAlgorithm

2012-06-01, 04:41 PM

I much prefer the look of the NC over the TR. It's all personal preference. Maybe you're just fighting for the wrong team? :p

I'm planning on playing TR currently, I just like my opposition to be a worthy foe, not a bunch of wimpy looking clowns.

Kaw

2012-06-01, 04:42 PM

In the concept, her pants are form fitting, her breast plate is much bigger, and her helmet accents big blue eyes. In short I think she is just less sexed up in the actual game model.

I'm not sure what happened to the shoulder pads but they just look weird in the actual model.

CuddlyChud

2012-06-01, 04:42 PM

I think it might have to be something you see in game with the right lighting to appreciate. Screenshots are notoriously bad at capturing things like lighting and shadows.

Bags

2012-06-01, 04:47 PM

TR and VS look pretty badass for free. It's mostly just the NC that look a little bit lacking. Only exception? The NC MAX which is loaded to the teeth with armor, as NC should be.

Eh, I think HA/Engineer look fine for NC as stock, and the others look okay. None of the other empire armors impress me too much.

LostAlgorithm

2012-06-01, 04:52 PM

Since some of you seem to think it's just cause the females are less "sexed up" (The concepts still looked pretty darn military to me), here's a male example:

NC Heavy Assault Concept:

http://www.planetside-universe.com/media/album/mp52rz6sp6/20120328_4f73aa1214168.jpg

Actual Model:

http://www.planetside-universe.com/media/album/vmscby2n9f/20120404_4f7cbd27a7299.jpg

What happened? The model just looks wimpy in comparison.

KnightHawk ECID

2012-06-01, 04:55 PM

Razicator

2012-06-01, 04:55 PM

LostAlgorithm

2012-06-01, 04:57 PM

They have to make money somehow or did you just skip the whole thread?:huh:

Skimping out on an entire faction's armor just to make money is pretty lame, imo. The other two factions look a little menacing without paying anything, the NC just look like clowns who threw their little sister's armor set on.

Fuse

2012-06-01, 04:58 PM

What happened? The model just looks wimpy in comparison.

Well, you see, these models have to be able to actually move and operate weapons. As great at the concepts look, I'd prefer to be able to move my arms. :rolleyes:

LostAlgorithm

2012-06-01, 05:01 PM

Well, you see, these models have to be able to actually move and operate weapons. As great at the concepts look, I'd prefer to be able to move my arms. :rolleyes:

Well, you see, that just sounds like a pretty lame excuse for laziness to me. That concept looks more than capable of a full range of movement.

Vancha

2012-06-01, 05:01 PM

The concept art to screenshot comparisons certainly confirmed something...

They've all been tortured on a rack. They need to be made fatter, or squished vertically.

Fuse

2012-06-01, 05:03 PM

Well, you see, that just sounds like a pretty lame excuse for laziness to me. That concept looks more than capable of a full range of movement.

Neither of those models could fire a weapon properly. Period. I don't know how fixing that could be called laziness.

Seriously, think of the wide range of movements required, then look at the size of the armor plates. It physically will not work. Welcome to game design 101.

JHendy

2012-06-01, 05:22 PM

LostAlgorithm

2012-06-01, 05:57 PM

Neither of those models could fire a weapon properly. Period. I don't know how fixing that could be called laziness.

Seriously, think of the wide range of movements required, then look at the size of the armor plates. It physically will not work. Welcome to game design 101.

The only real question is with the wrists, but it looks like there's more than enough room even for them. I disagree with your assessment and continue to think you're just excusing lazy development.

LostAlgorithm

2012-06-01, 05:59 PM

You know what, I think it's just the shoulder guards and the helmet that make the final model look goofy. The shoulder plate is almost sitting atop the shoulder, and it's too far away from the model's body, which causes it to appear as if it's floating. In the concept art there is thick padding underneath which the shoulder plate is bound to, and the plate itself sits right.

Here's a VERY rough chop/paste I did using MS paint, combining the two.

http://i.imgur.com/cgbbI.png

It should be noted that the under armor is also noticeably padded on the upper arm in the concept art, but on the model it's just a flat texture, contributing to the wimpiness of the the model in comparison.

CuddlyChud

2012-06-01, 06:02 PM

I don't understand the laziness comment. Its not like they're manufacturing these in real life and need to take into consideration a thousand different variables. If they wanted to, I don't think it would have been any more effort to make the meshes bigger in one area or smaller in another. The devs have their own reasons for making them look how they are.

JHendy

2012-06-01, 06:03 PM

It should be noted that the under armor is also noticeably padded on the upper arm in the concept art, but on the model it's just a flat texture, contributing to the wimpiness of the the model in comparison.

Absolutely. I did mention that, and I think that bulking up the padding to match the concept art would make the model look a lot better, even with the current helmet.

IMMentat

2012-06-01, 06:05 PM

The diffrences of the NC medic:

The shoulder guards sit very high
The boots turned into shoes

Edit*
The helmet lost 50% of its geometry
And the pouches have been pushed further to the sides of the belt.

These the bits that I think could use a re-work/tweak (the rest is fine)

Combat boots look so much better than random flatsoles, why the change? Especialy as the ankle protection has now turned into a hinge for the shinguard.

Why does that helmet not have a chinstrap? The facemask can be a cosmetic option but combat gear needs to stay where its needed. Yes its a game but its immersion breaking.

That steel thing containing vials could be moved onto a leg-velcro/holster/pocket (Use a betetr looking one of these (http://www.mashedcat.com/prod_dlp.php)), anything between the stomach and leg will dig into one or the other and this would also help use some of that blank area in the stomach and thigh area.

SoNaR

2012-06-01, 06:08 PM

Well, you see, these models have to be able to actually move and operate weapons. As great at the concepts look, I'd prefer to be able to move my arms. :rolleyes:

Yeah because textures and meshes are so heavy in cyber space. :rolleyes:

LostAlgorithm

2012-06-01, 06:09 PM

Absolutely. I did mention that, and I think that bulking up the padding to match the concept art would make the model look a lot better, even with the current helmet.

Doh, sorry, I see it now. Kind of busy outside of these forum currently as well. Good on you.

Fanglord

2012-06-01, 06:17 PM

Concept is concept, what works on paper doesn't necessarily translate into the 3D world as easily.

LostAlgorithm

2012-06-01, 06:19 PM

Concept is concept, what works on paper doesn't necessarily translate into the 3D world as easily.

When what makes it into the game is noticeably less cool, I think it's entirely fair to ask why.

LordReaver

2012-06-01, 06:21 PM

Concept art that looks better than in-game graphics? GREAT SCOTT! What has the world come to??

Free cookie to anybody who can find in-game graphics that look better than concept art! ( :: )

LostAlgorithm

2012-06-01, 06:24 PM

Concept art that looks better than in-game graphics? GREAT SCOTT! What has the world come to??

Free cookie to anybody who can find in-game graphics that look better than concept art! ( :: )

Why are you so opposed to pushing for cooler stuff winding up in-game?

People seem to think the Devs couldn't do better. If I've learned anything over the years, it's that most of the time people definitely can do better. That's all I'm trying to advocate for rather than being complacent and accepting the mediocre.

Ieyasu

2012-06-01, 06:30 PM

Why are you so opposed to pushing for cooler stuff winding up in-game?

People seem to think the Devs couldn't do better. If I've learned anything over the years, it's that most of the time people definitely can do better. That's all I'm trying to advocate for rather than being complacent and accepting the mediocre.

it may not be a dev limitation, but rather a limitation of the average pc users available video memory. The dev team has said before that they would sacrifice pretty for speed and this is an example of that.

Zulthus

2012-06-01, 06:31 PM

I think what they're doing is sacrificing the overall look of the models to add to the polygon count so you can see "each individual thread on the armor".

JHendy

2012-06-01, 06:32 PM

it may not be a dev limitation, but rather a limitation of the average pc users available video memory. The dev team has said before that they would sacrifice pretty for speed and this is an example of that.

This isn't an example of that, dude.

How would bulking up the padding beneath the shoulder plate and changing its angle slightly be any more taxing on system resources? It just needs a little bit of alteration.

Fanglord

2012-06-01, 06:35 PM

When what makes it into the game is noticeably less cool, I think it's entirely fair to ask why.

That's like asking why concept art for older games doesn't look as cool in game, its harder to get the actual concept designs to the letter to work in the game world.

LostAlgorithm

2012-06-01, 06:38 PM

That's like asking why concept art for older games doesn't look as cool in game, its harder to get the actual concept designs to the letter to work in the game world.

Considering what we've seen Forgelight is capable of, I feel that argument is entirely off base.

"Bulkier shoulder pads are too hard! Oh! But we can make a facility that looks like it's straight out of the newest CG movie!"

Purple

2012-06-01, 06:40 PM

thankfully when it comes to PS2 the devs do not go with the RPG policy of the more skin exposed the more armor they have. it looks great right now.

Synapse

2012-06-01, 06:51 PM

Preface: this whole thing is coming out only because we have nothing else good to complain about. We're normally seeing perfection from SOE on this game and with the game models we're getting mediocre. Thats all.

I'm happy to lay this at the feet of the modelers. I see no reason the concept art could not be more faithfully reproduced. Its really a question of being more careful with the armor. All the models seem to be lazy about putting in the larger armor that the concept art uses, making it both smaller and simpler.

Granted, these guys have a dozen models to make across 3 races, plus they are making custom continents, thats a MASSIVE amount of work for the art team.

I wouldn't be surprised if they have only one guy working on the models and no time to ask him to go back and redo it before beta releases. Perhaps they are on forced march to E3 and beta and there just isnt time for quality.

LostAlgorithm

2012-06-01, 06:52 PM

QuantumMechanic

2012-06-01, 07:01 PM

I agree that the in-game models we've seen sofar are most likely plain vanilla BR0 characters... should be able to spiff up your woman if you so choose.

I wanted to say that the exception to the OP's rule is the NC MAX suit. To me that thing looks better than the concept art did. And it drives in-game sweet as well, the way it clunks around... and I love the reloading animation it has. Very imprressed.

kaffis

2012-06-01, 07:07 PM

The things that struck me about the female model vs. the concept art:

There's a lot less of the white highlight.

The arms and gloves look a lot less interesting on the model. This follows the first point, as the arms are made interesting by being the primary pick-up of the empire colors.

The helmet looks a bit smaller and less interesting.

The "medical" symbol is changed from something large, distinctly unique, and visually interesting to a low-resolution, small stamp on one piece of armor instead of showing up on various pieces.

The chestplate is a lot less NC-chunky, and I think the slight curve to the front edge gives it a lot more character in the concept.

The kneepads are shrunk down and feel less NC-chunky.

The shoulderpads similarly got shrunken and, worse, seem to ride high on the shoulder rather than covering and protecting the upper arm.

That said, it's not terrible; I do like the basic proportions they've selected for the female bodies -- they strike a nice balance between looking distinctly feminine and not being blatantly sexualized and unrealistically proportioned. I think some of the armors kind of upset this balance a bit by "hiding" some of that femininity a little too much. The chestplate on this model is an example of this -- in the concept, it's not sculpted breast-armor, but the rounded edge differentiates it from the male version subtly. If somebody came back and told me this was a first pass, I'd be pleased at the starting point and offer the above notes.

MercDT

2012-06-01, 07:14 PM

Thank you for bringing this up. I've been pretty disappointed recently with the NC armors since they look pretty meh. I just hope that they will fix it/model it better at some point.

It's pretty much the only thing right that making a bit iffy about going with NC, even though I was pretty loyal to it in PS1.

Aractain

2012-06-01, 07:20 PM

I think it looks exactly like what you would expect from a NC, lowest bidder after all. The VS and TR look amazing. I think the artist just went a bit to far with the idea of lazy corps not providing fit for purpose equipment.

I am glad that TR women are very well equipped.

Xyntech

2012-06-01, 08:00 PM

Concerned that your empire has been nerfed into irredeemable ugliness? Join the Vanu Sovereignty today! Style is or number one concern. Come, join us. Wear royal purple, not that plebeian blue.

JHendy

2012-06-01, 08:16 PM

Concerned that your empire has been nerfed into irredeemable ugliness? Join the Vanu Sovereignty today! Style is or number one concern. Come, join us. Wear royal purple, not that plebeian blue.

I'd consider it, if the new Magrider wasn't so horribly ugly. A reworking of PS1's Magrider would have looked so much better.

Xyntech

2012-06-01, 08:28 PM

I'd consider it, if the new Magrider wasn't so horribly ugly. A reworking of PS1's Magrider would have looked so much better.

It's the Independence Day alien fighter, in purple. What's not to like?

Magmower is confirmed to be back. Magmower 2.0. Shit's gonna be awesome.

JHendy

2012-06-01, 08:49 PM

It's the Independence Day alien fighter, in purple. What's not to like?

Then give it some more thrust and have it take to the goddamn skies! It certainly doesn't belong on the ground.

The VS land systems division/PS2 art team needs to familiarise itself with the saying "If it aint borked, don't fix it"

Why invent this:
http://i.imgur.com/RPOQj.jpg

When you already have plenty of these:
http://i.imgur.com/lYAUg.jpg

Graywolves

2012-06-01, 08:53 PM

ARMOR IS UPGRADABLE.

Cus-tum-iz-ation

Xyntech

2012-06-01, 08:55 PM

Then give it some more thrust and have it take to the goddamn skies! It certainly doesn't belong on the ground.

The VS land systems division/PS2 art team needs to familiarise itself with the saying "If it aint borked, don't fix it"

Why invent this:[/IMG]

When you already have plenty of these:

Higher polycounts and larger vehicle pads would be my guess. I like the new design.

I wouldn't mind a classic Magrider cosmetic though ;)

LostAlgorithm

2012-06-01, 09:26 PM

Cus-tum-iz-ation

The should really show us some of this upgradeable armor then. We've seen a little bit for the MAX, but that's it.

KnightHawk ECID

2012-06-01, 09:57 PM

The should really show us some of this upgradeable armor then. We've seen a little bit for the MAX, but that's it.

IIRC they are trying to finish the game before they add the shop or atleast only add very simple additions to the shop at the launch of BETA.
:groovy:

MercDT

2012-06-02, 07:25 AM

IIRC they are trying to finish the game before they add the shop or atleast only add very simple additions to the shop at the launch of BETA.
:groovy:

Hopefully with customization we can get it close to looking like the concept work... I really doubt that though. If that is the case, it looks wrong to not follow the concept work initially and then add it in later as cash shop item when they had to time implement it.

By the way, it's not just the NC since it's happening to the TR and VS.

There was this TR female engineer concept that looks pretty awesome, and it just looks off in game. They kept the vest though.

edit: The customization shown in TBs latest video looks pretty basic to be honest, are the planning to expand this?

JHendy

2012-06-02, 08:17 AM

Higher polycounts and larger vehicle pads would be my guess. I like the new design.

I wouldn't mind a classic Magrider cosmetic though ;)

Absolutely! I'd pay good money - and switch to VS - if they released an old maggy skin.

Logri

2012-06-02, 08:38 AM

I'd like to see a female TR medic with customized armor turning it more into what it looks like on the concept art :)

When seeing the stream I kinda forgot that armor was customizable and was actually pretty disillusioned after seeing the models. I thought the PS1 female models were very good, PS2 i'm kinda in the middle, I understand their philosophy though but was kinda hoping for something more...

*edit, especially robust boots!
I like big boots and I cannot lie...

Shamrock

2012-06-02, 09:24 AM

I'm fine with the base BR1 models looking plain, this gives more opportunities for customisation later; I don't mind paying for aesthetic improvements because I want PS to be a commercial success so they can keep adding content.

MercDT

2012-06-02, 10:19 AM

Logri

2012-06-02, 10:32 AM

No iirc, only change would be purchased customization.

JHendy

2012-06-02, 11:25 AM

No iirc, only change would be purchased customization.

It's possible that you'll only be able to buy certain things when you reach a certain BR, though.

LordReaver

2012-06-02, 11:48 AM

It's the Independence Day alien fighter, in purple. What's not to like?

Magmower is confirmed to be back. Magmower 2.0. Shit's gonna be awesome.
HAHAHA, I knew it looked familiar!

MercDT

2012-06-02, 03:52 PM

No iirc, only change would be purchased customization.

Well damn...this is not good. I tweeted Higby to see if we can add armor plating/parts on different classes.

CrystalViolet

2012-06-02, 04:11 PM

I'm not huge on the execution of the NC helmets. The geometry and proportions look off and a bit awkward compared to the concept images. Specifically, the top and side plates aren't defined enough from the inner sections of the helmet that sit closer to the head. The ear/cheek plates don't angle inward enough and should extend into the face more. Lastly the entire helmet should be wider and sit lower on the wearers head. Granted, you can fudge things on a hand drawn sketch that are impractical in 3D terms, but I still think they could be done better. I might take a stab at the NC light assault helmet in 3DSMAX later.

cryosin

2012-06-02, 04:23 PM

Im gonna guess its because of purchasable cosmetics.

The biggest downside in a lot of F2Play games is that the default look is okay while the purchasable cosmetics aren't much better. If they make awesome armor customization that you could buy people would gladly so.

Either that, or they realized the poly count on that awesome max was too high for the average PC... =\

Bags

2012-06-02, 04:27 PM

No iirc, only change would be purchased customization.

Tray said there would be some changes when leveling.

Blackwolf

2012-06-02, 04:32 PM

the only things that are different really are the arm's color and the lack of the mask.

though I agree it doesn't really look as neat in execution.

You guys are forgetting that there is cosmetic armor customization that probably adds different looks possibly like the concept art.

I assume most of the models they show us are BR1 with 0 customization. How will they sell aesthetics if you look like a badass for free?

ARMOR IS UPGRADABLE.

What they said.

In the concept, her pants are form fitting, her breast plate is much bigger, and her helmet accents big blue eyes. In short I think she is just less sexed up in the actual game model.

I'm not sure what happened to the shoulder pads but they just look weird in the actual model.

Probably a good thing. Also we're looking at one body model. Chances are there are at least some customizations at character creation, not a lot but at least some basic stuff like build type.