Planetside 2 Needs Prone

[Goku]

Ok well I merged the two threads. I really need the mod option to add polls, so we can avoid these double topics. It was like a plague a few weeks ago.

[Talek Krell]

I'd like to change my vote from other (indifferent) to No. It seems to me that prone would significantly empower defensive tactics and I don't see any particular need for that change in gameplay flow.

[GreatMazinkaise]

I would rather see a poll on whether people recognize that wanting prone removed is a way of controlling the ways that others play just because you don't want them playing that way.

Damn straight... they shouldn't be playing that way. I want to play Planetside, not some weird game with people licking the ground. There is nothing wrong with this position.

It's comparable to complaining about llama grabbers in T:A (though that's not forced); it's not something that has any place in Planetside because it's the wrong way to play.

[SKYeXile]

For the love of God if this forum is going to have a million polls every day, please don't have "other" or "indifferent."

If you're indifferent, don't vote. If the poll question is "This" or "That," there is no other. It only skews numbers.

lol i know right, the prone n00bs are gonna be all like yes+other has more votes than no and then declare victory.

PSU is well known for having shitty polls.

[Stardouser]

I'd like to change my vote from other (indifferent) to No. It seems to me that prone would significantly empower defensive tactics and I don't see any particular need for that change in gameplay flow.
Definitely not true, in my opinion. If anything, crouch will be sufficient for defenders of a base since they will be a lot more likely to have crouch height cover , and attackers coming from outside the base will not.

And even if and when it is true, that's called digging in as a defense.
Damn straight... they shouldn't be playing that way. I want to play Planetside, not some weird game with people licking the ground. There is nothing wrong with this position.

It's comparable to complaining about llama grabbers in T:A (though that's not forced); it's not something that has any place in Planetside because it's the wrong way to play.

Who is anyone to say that something is or isn't the way to play in any game? I was apparently under the mistaken impression that Planetside's distinguishing factor was the large scale and persistence, instead of people being forced into run and gun battles.

Sad thing is, prone is one of the smallest effects on gameplay pace that there probably can be and you guys don't realize it. But at least you are admitting that you want to force your subjective opinion on others.

[KTNApollo]

Prone should be Infiltrator only as a Cert that takes the place of Stealth, and it should only be usable with sniper rifles (to prevent campers with SMGs).

[Envenom]

Definitely not true, in my opinion. If anything, crouch will be sufficient for defenders of a base since they will be a lot more likely to have crouch height cover , and attackers coming from outside the base will not.

And even if and when it is true, that's called digging in as a defense.


Who is anyone to say that something is or isn't the way to play in any game? I was apparently under the mistaken impression that Planetside's distinguishing factor was the large scale and persistence, instead of people being forced into run and gun battles.

Sad thing is, prone is one of the smallest effects on gameplay pace that there probably can be and you guys don't realize it. But at least you are admitting that you want to force your subjective opinion on others.

My thread just jacked a poll. THE POWERRRR

[Vancha]

This was answered pages ago.

Is the extent to which prone reduces someone's hit profile, mobility and visibility actually beneficial to Planetside 2's specific gameplay?
Can't really answer that 'til I've got a screen in front of me and a zillion flashlight bolts screaming in.


That basically seems to be as far as this conversation can go. The people who want prone can't demonstrate that it'd be good for Planetside 2 and the people who don't want prone can't demonstrate that it'd be bad for Planetside 2. Until we get to beta, that's where we're at.

[Envenom]

This was answered pages ago.



That basically seems to be as far as this conversation can go. The people who want prone can't demonstrate that it'd be good for Planetside 2 and the people who don't want prone can't demonstrate that it'd be bad for Planetside 2. Until we get to beta, that's where we're at.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLkgXhGraFM&feature=youtu.be

[IMMentat]

The only time I have seen prone be effective in a game is for hiding under a bush in BF3, camping in a corner with your legs partially through a wall in BF3 and in Operation Flashpoint where if you were not crawling everywhere you were dead to people the other side of a valley, on top of a hill, or looking out from under some neutral shrubbery. In every case it either turns fights into a game of hide and seek or gets you killed, especially in a game with massed airchav looking immobile squishy targets.

[SoNaR]

"NOOOOOOOOO" Compilation - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgI2ZQVyrBo&feature=related)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgMJQM1Cb04

edit: luke didn't want prone, so he lost his hand.....

[Death2All]

I've yet to see a reason proposed on why prone should be in PS2 apart from "cuz bf haz it xD".

Seriously, I've seen plenty of constructive arguments against it but none for. If that's not indicative to the mindset of a BF player then I don't know what is.

[Sturmhardt]

No. It doesn't. PS1 didn't need prone.

That is the right answer.

[SKYeXile]

HOW WILL I HIDE MY BODY WITHOUT PRONE WHEN CAMPING!!?!

[Toppopia]

I've yet to see a reason proposed on why prone should be in PS2 apart from "cuz bf haz it xD".

Seriously, I've seen plenty of constructive arguments against it but none for. If that's not indicative to the mindset of a BF player then I don't know what is.

The only reasons i can think of to have prone:

1) Helps defend by having multiple lines of defenders. 1 line of people lie down. 1 line crouches. and 1 line stands. So not much of an advantage,

2) Allows a tiny amount of stealth if there is lots of foliage. But not many people will prone 100-200 metres just to sneak into a base.


In this game, prone just isn't very useful. Mostly fro snipers or defenders to use. But if you want stealth, just cloak or get someone to scout the defences to find a gap in them.

[Death2All]

I know these are ideas you're just spit balling, but I'm going to address them anyways, just so people don't fixate on them.

1) Helps defend by having multiple lines of defenders. 1 line of people lie down. 1 line crouches. and 1 line stands. So not much of an advantage,That's sort of a silly reason. I can't see people ever doing this. If the area is that crowded they'd just move on a to different spot.

Most of the people who like prone are the ones who go and camp around for an entire match in some secluded spot so that they'll never be in danger ever.

2) Allows a tiny amount of stealth if there is lots of foliage. But not many people will prone 100-200 metres just to sneak into a base.

I guess this one could possibly be construed as one benefit, but it's really not good enough to warrant it's inclusion into the game. As you said, people aren't going to prone across a giant field to sneak up on someone. It could create some silly moments sure, but it's still not a good enough reason to outweigh all the problems it would cause.

In this game, prone just isn't very useful. Mostly fro snipers or defenders to use. But if you want stealth, just cloak or get someone to scout the defences to find a gap in them.

Well said, there's just no place for it in a game like PS. The mechanic just simply wouldn't translate well into the game. Some people just cannot grasp that however.

[Timey]

I wouldn't mind prone at all. You are basically immobile when in prone > a fish in a barrel. Wouldn't mind if it wasn't in, either.

[Stardouser]

I've yet to see a reason proposed on why prone should be in PS2 apart from "cuz bf haz it xD".

Seriously, I've seen plenty of constructive arguments against it but none for. If that's not indicative to the mindset of a BF player then I don't know what is.

I'm not saying all the arguments haven't been constructive but they certainly have almost all been subjective.

And the biggest subjective argument is that people say they don't want people camping, but it's very curious...other things that promote camping, such as low TTK and high respawn timers, I don't see a lot of people proactively fighting against those things. I just hope to see, when beta comes, that the anti-camping people are willing to ask SOE to raise the TTK a bit and accept compromise on spawn timers to help reduce those particular motivations for camping.

[Gandhi]

I'm really not worried about camping in a game like this. This isn't a 16vs16 deathmatch, plenty of people will be camping and that's totally fine, because we're fighting over objectives here and not a K/D ratio. If camping helps you defend your objective then that's what you should be doing. And if you can manage to effectively camp an objective without getting killed by any of the hundreds of other players milling about then more power to you.

What I don't want to see though are things that promote camping for the attacking side. The Phoenix in PS1 was a prime example of this, instead of actually attacking a base the NC would spend literally hours hiding behind hills and rocks and trees spamming Phoenix missiles. That's not effective and it's not fun for either side, it makes the game more boring and tedious.

Likewise I think prone would make the game more boring and tedious, though that's only my subjective opinion. I can't think of any solid reasons not to have prone, and I can't think of any solid reasons for it either. For me it comes down to a question of whether it fits in with the style of the game, and to me the answer to that is definitely no.

[Crator]

I haven't read through all the posts in this thread. I voted Other but let me explain.

Yes to prone with some restrictions as such mentioned earlier. But another restriction is you must crouch first before you can prone. So it's more of a skill mechanic.

I would also like to see a cover mechanic like GoW had too!

[SniperSteve]

It reduced the silhouette too much, IMO. So no prone.

[velleity]

My dual plasma max will be prone.

[Electrofreak]

Prone will be in PS2.

It happens every time you're filled with a few dozen bullets. That's good enough for me.

[basti]

Prone will be in PS2.

It happens every time you're filled with a few dozen bullets. That's good enough for me.

This. ;)



The topic is dead guys, please let it rest.

[Conq]

Prone definitely belongs in the game, it's just silly to deny it. It's your character and if you want to hit the deck when a MCG comes around a corner or crawl around in a bush, you should have that ability.

As someone else pointed out, you are usually immobilized and in a game of hitboxes, there is nothing overpowered about hiding everything but your head from enemy fire.

I think those dragging their feet are just people stuck in the past, playing old games. In 5 years every shooter will have prone, it's a logical evolution and main stream gamers generally appreciate it.

[Stardouser]

Prone definitely belongs in the game, it's just silly to deny it. It's your character and if you want to hit the deck when a MCG comes around a corner or crawl around in a bush, you should have that ability.

As someone else pointed out, you are usually immobilized and in a game of hitboxes, there is nothing overpowered about hiding everything but your head from enemy fire.

I think those dragging their feet are just people stuck in the past, playing old games. In 5 years every shooter will have prone, it's a logical evolution and main stream gamers generally appreciate it.

I agree with prone but I don't believe that it's a matter of being stuck in the past. Sometimes gameplay that we had in the past is the better way, even though technology has allowed newer stuff to surface.

But the old/modern argument doesn't even apply to prone, games from the 90s had it. It's just a question of freedom of player movement. In this case it's about people who want to stop camping even though they won't lift a finger against other things that really DO cause camping(unlike prone which is usable by campers and non campers alike).

[Envenom]

Campers will be campers, with or without prone.

I had prone in BF2, BF1242, and BF3... Does that mean I lied around the map the entire match? Not even in the slightest. It comes down to the individual players habits not the mechanic. A sniper will camp regardless, whether he's crouching or prone.

With the footage shown of the indoor areas so far, they're so open it likely won't be a problem anyway.

[Electrofreak]

It's not really the old versus new argument I care about, it's the mechanics. Can you move while prone? Just forwards and backwards, or can you roll to the side? If you can move while prone, can you do so with any weapon equipped, or just some? How are you going to lie prone with a heavy assault weapon and still operate it? Will a MAX be able to prone? Can you throw grenades from prone? Lay CE? Will people be able to walk over prone soldiers? If a stealthed infil lays prone across a doorway and a MAX sprints over him, does he take damage from being stepped on? Can you prone on top of moving vehicles? Can you go from sprinting to prone? Does it take a Rexo longer to get to feet from prone than an Assault suit? Can you activate jump jets while prone? Will there be any camera view angle restrictions while prone? If you're prone and an aircraft or vehicle moves in such a position as to be over you, does this stop you from getting up from prone?

I see some pretty silly pictures here, and a lot of them seem like obvious answers, but then being prone suddenly has a lot of restrictions and potential issues. All would need to be tested thoroughly by the devs, and I'm sure there would be controversy over some of the mechanics. Too much trouble IMO.

Like I said, you get to be prone when you're dead, so what's the problem?

[The Kush]

Please let this topic die already

[Stardouser]

It's not really the old versus new argument I care about, it's the mechanics. Can you move while prone? Just forwards and backwards, or can you roll to the side? If you can move while prone, can you do so with any weapon equipped, or just some? How are you going to lie prone with a heavy assault weapon and still operate it? Will a MAX be able to prone? Can you throw grenades from prone? Lay CE? Will people be able to walk over prone soldiers? If a stealthed infil lays prone across a doorway and a MAX sprints over him, does he take damage from being stepped on? Can you prone on top of moving vehicles? Can you go from sprinting to prone? Does it take a Rexo longer to get to feet from prone than an Assault suit? Can you activate jump jets while prone? Will there be any camera view angle restrictions while prone? If you're prone and an aircraft or vehicle moves in such a position as to be over you, does this stop you from getting up from prone?

I see some pretty silly pictures here, and a lot of them seem like obvious answers, but then being prone suddenly has a lot of restrictions and potential issues. All would need to be tested thoroughly by the devs, and I'm sure there would be controversy over some of the mechanics. Too much trouble IMO.

Like I said, you get to be prone when you're dead, so what's the problem?
Half of those things are pretty silly to even ask, of course you shouldn't be able to jump jet from prone, and a MAX wouldn't make any sense to prone.

But I'm glad you mentioned MAX stepping on you. I would love to see that! If a MAX is standing on a height and steps out and falls on another infantry that ought to kill. Call it the "MAX Stomp"!

[Conq]

Please let this topic die already

Yes, show us your disinterest in continuing this discussion by bumping it up with useless commentary.

[Grimshad]

Hi all, PS1 vet here, I was really trying to avoid joining the forums because I knew all I would do is say WTF no vehicle enter/exit animations?!?

Then I saw this and had to sign up just to vote no on prone. It wasn't needed in PS1 and it's not needed here. PS isn't that type of game, it doesn't fit, it's meant to keep you on the move.

[RawketLawnchair]

Hi all, PS1 vet here, I was really trying to avoid joining the forums because I knew all I would do is say WTF no vehicle enter/exit animations?!?

Then I saw this and had to sign up just to vote no on prone. It wasn't needed in PS1 and it's not needed here. PS isn't that type of game, it doesn't fit, it's meant to keep you on the move.

^ This

Also, hi Grim.

[Blackwolf]

Incorrect. I would argue that it's about a 50/50 split. Most, at the very least just don't really care.

If you don't like it don't use it. If prone players are apparently so easy to kill what do you care?

50/50 split? Where did you get that? I see 65% saying no and 22% saying yes.

Face it your a minority.

Other doesn't count as it's a terrible option for a poll like this.

Seriously I thought the poll was stupid enough that I didn't bother to vote until just now just to see if it really was 50/50.

Maybe I should start a poll with a million options regarding whether or not we should have PS1 inventories...

[Memeotis]

Prone isn't for snipers - it's for anyone and everyone. It's for people taking cover, or lining up a shot, or reducing your head-on silhouette, or moving undetected. It's for crawling through scrub brush to pop up and over a wall, guns blazing. It's useful in EVERY style of play, and the idea that a modern FPS would lack it is like that fps lacking jumping, as far as I'm concerned.

It's a situational feature; it can give you a great advantage if used in the right place at the right time, but it can also do the exact opposite. Going prone does not magically activate godmode, as anyone who has ever snuck up behind a group of proning soldiers can atest to.

I vote yes to this, but I feel that some logical restrictions should be put in place, like MAXs not being able to prone, and not being able to throw grenades very far, etc.

[Toppopia]

I could see it maybe being added later in beta, but to do it now would take new animations and such. So maybe later.

[Block]

Of course we should have prone! People who say otherwise are barely concious.

[GreatMazinkaise]

Prone is for failures who never played Planetside, 'nuff said.

[duomaxwl]

If I want to lay on the ground and camp I'll go to the state park. Planetside 1 didn't have prone, Planetside 2 doesn't need it, and the majority of the users who voted said No.

[Shade Millith]

I could live with, or without prone. It doesn't worry me at all.

[Stardouser]

Since the misguided camping hate is so great(misguided since camping isn't going to be stopped or made more difficult by lack of prone), a question arises.

How quickly can you move in crouch? In BC2 it was smooth, quick and crisp, in BF3 it's almost as slow as moving in prone would have been.

[SpcFarlen]

Im very glad people remember PS didnt have prone. Thats why there is a 2 at the end of this game.

Please say something more than just no or yes. Its not constructive. We can see the numbers on the poll.

[GreatMazinkaise]

Planetside 2 should be the Empire Strikes Back to Planetside's Star Wars...

Instead we get the uninitiated clamoring for Phantom Menace... that's what's going on here.

[Shotokanguy]

Boy, I tell you. It was hard to read through all 20 pages before posting. I was hoping we were going to get some commentary on this issue from one of the devs.

You people do remember that the devs read this stuff, right? You have to make GOOD arguments.

I see no reason at all to, at this moment, completely write off the idea. Some of you make going prone sound like some kind of fantastical superpower. It's just another movement option. There's nothing radical about it. There's no way in hell the ability to lie down on the ground will have a noticeably negative impact on the gameplay. And get this - if it does, somehow, they fix it.

There's a reason soldiers in real life take the prone position - it's a real tactic and it has certain benefits over standing or crouching. A lot of you seem unwilling to see that. This has nothing to do with Battlefield 3 or Call of Duty or any other game. It's being discussed because it's something you might do in a battle with guns and explosions and stuff.

It's a simple issue, so make some simple arguments. Stop pulling stuff out of your butt.

[KnightHawk ECID]

I do not care if it is in or isn't however it could be a class specific thing, so everyone is proning all day everyday and not to mention dropshots.;)

[GreatMazinkaise]

It's a simple issue, so make some simple arguments. Stop pulling stuff out of your butt.

Simple argument:
Planetside is a relatively fast game in which staying still is a quick way to end up dead.

The prone position is nearly immobile (you can't really be expected to move quickly without your legs under you after all) and completely inimical to Planetside's mobile gameplay.

Prone may well be fine in Generic Modern Shooter: The MMO, but a game that calls itself Planetside's sequel should maintain the highly mobile gameplay of the original, thus making prone unnecessary and unwanted. This is without taking into account how stupid a guy laying on his face looks when being close assaulted.

[Stardouser]

Simple argument:
Planetside is a relatively fast game in which staying still is a quick way to end up dead.

The prone position is nearly immobile (you can't really be expected to move quickly without your legs under you after all) and completely inimical to Planetside's mobile gameplay.

Prone may well be fine in Generic Modern Shooter: The MMO, but a game that calls itself Planetside's sequel should maintain the highly mobile gameplay of the original, thus making prone unnecessary and unwanted. This is without taking into account how stupid a guy laying on his face looks when being close assaulted.
I think I finally understand what you mean, and I think the real answer to you is: If you want to retain mobility, don't prone? Prone existing doesn't mean you are forced to prone. Not in any way. So just don't do it if you want to retain your mobility. Prone when you need to prone and don't when it's not safe.

[Shotokanguy]

Simple argument:
Planetside is a relatively fast game in which staying still is a quick way to end up dead.

The prone position is nearly immobile (you can't really be expected to move quickly without your legs under you after all) and completely inimical to Planetside's mobile gameplay.

Prone may well be fine in Generic Modern Shooter: The MMO, but a game that calls itself Planetside's sequel should maintain the highly mobile gameplay of the original, thus making prone unnecessary and unwanted. This is without taking into account how stupid a guy laying on his face looks when being close assaulted.

But this is an argument for not using prone, not for not having it in the game.

[Winfernal]

The two main arguments against prone in this community:

"PS1 didn't have it"
"Prone is for campers"

The first argument... well, it's allright. But isn't a sequel about changing some aspects of the game, while improving others?

The second argument is very, very weak, though.
It's like the "I can't spot the "bush-campers" without my OP IRNV" argument in BF3.

Seriously though, would you actually believe that the only reason for people to want prone... is camping?... please.

I'm all neutral on this one, but check your arguments.

[GreatMazinkaise]

The first argument... well, it's allright. But isn't a sequel about changing some aspects of the game, while improving others?

You've got ADS, Classes, Unlocks, Squad Spawn, Capture Points, Sprint, no intercontinental metagame, etc; what more do you want to "change" or "improve"?

That's where that refutation falls flat... everything is already changing far more than any of the glory days players are comfortable with; trading the old gunplay for "stand still and shoot at stationary targets" (prone/ADS) is just cruel.

[Bags]

You do realize that the zoom feature is the same thing as ADS, right? You couldn't move very fast in PS1 while zoomed in.

[GreatMazinkaise]

You do realize that the zoom feature is the same thing as ADS, right? You couldn't move very fast in PS1 while zoomed in.

It is similar... though you wouldn't use zoom at the ranges seen in the demo footage, most likely.

Either way, I don't plan on using ADS; Engie shotties and SMGs shouldn't require it at all.

[Winfernal]

You've got ADS, Classes, Unlocks, Squad Spawn, Capture Points, Sprint, no intercontinental metagame, etc; what more do you want to "change" or "improve"?

That's where that refutation falls flat... everything is already changing far more than any of the glory days players are comfortable with; trading the old gunplay for "stand still and shoot at stationary targets" (prone/ADS) is just cruel.

The only reason for me to actually want prone, is for the immersion. Squads sneaking up in the fields behind enemy lines, etc.

But i guess the cons outweight the pros in this case. PS is more about large-scale wars, that are rather fast paced, instead of "realistic warfare".

I'm still waving from the fence here :)

[Death2All]

You do realize that the zoom feature is the same thing as ADS, right? You couldn't move very fast in PS1 while zoomed in.

What? I'm pretty certain that you could move at the same speed unzoomed as you could zoomed in. Maybe it just looked like you were moving slower because you were like....zoomed in more? I don't know, I never tested it, but it never felt like I was moving slower while zoomed in.

[Coreldan]

Lots of really bad arguments here :D

I mostly come from milsim'ish games, so prone is quite baseline for the games I usually play, but I dunno. Somehow I feel PS2 doesn't really need prone. I can't really point out why. I don't think it would be a bad addition either, but as someone mentioned, some areas might need to get redesigned.

@OP, like someone already said, you really have to reconsider something when you sig is several times bigger than your average message :D

[Goku]

Everyone please keep the religious stuff out of this thread and anywhere but the Political Debate forum.

[Bruttal]

I dont care either way, but this topic has come up ALOT till higby gave us his two cents on it (think it was higby)

[Masahiko]

Prone is a fiddly ability, Its some thing that makes it into alot of FPS and something that really becomes abused imo. Where people go from standing to dropped and shooting without ever interrupting the stream of bullets. There are numerous games out there but i think that keeping it away from PS2 will be just fine. Its something that has never been in CS, though that is a much faster and smaller game. The majority of the time i dont see it used for what it should be used for and instead becomes a twitch ability that will slightly increase your K/D.

[The Kush]

lol at the sadness of this topic, now people are using religion in an argument about prone in a video game

[Eyeklops]

Where people go from standing to dropped and shooting without ever interrupting the stream of bullets.

This is dependent upon mechanics. They could easily fuck the COF during prone/standing transitions. Then nobody will be shooting while dolphin diving.

[Masahiko]

This is dependent upon mechanics. They could easily fuck the COF during prone/standing transitions. Then nobody will be shooting while dolphin diving.


More often than not you can put more into a game than you probably should.

Should HA be able to go prone? Well the TR wouldn't because of the weapons they get since it is not meant to shot that way. Would light assault be able to go prone and hit the jump jets shooting forward? How much balance would it need to feel like you cant "dolphin dive" your way to victory? On the other hand where does it feel like its not a waste to become prone should we add in these delays?

[MrBloodworth]

This is one area where I like that Planetside is somewhat "arcade-y".

Prone is simply unnecessary, and not really fun.

[MacXXcaM]

Its something that has never been in CS, though that is a much faster and smaller game.

Because CS has never evolved... Plus it was never designed to have open battles.

[Alduron]

This is a divide for me.

On one hand, I would love to see prone in. I think it would make a great tactical addition.

On the other hand, It's abused pretty hard in a lot of other games. hiding your body in a wall, etc.

PS1 did a fantastic job without it. I dont believe I ever needed the ability to lay down in battles. Most of the PS1 battles moved back and forth pretty regularly, so I was never in one spot for all that long anyway.

[Crator]

^^^ Agreed, it would be nice to have but if you can't implement the feature without it being exploited or misused, then just don't do it. That would go for any feature though, not just prone. I don't think we need to point that out to the devs though...

[Stardouser]

^^^ Agreed, it would be nice to have but if you can't implement the feature without it being exploited or misused, then just don't do it. That would go for any feature though, not just prone. I don't think we need to point that out to the devs though...

Battlefield 3 makes it so you can't fire during the transition(certainly not while getting up, going down I don't remember), and you can't prone flop, either. Either way, it's proven that the abuse can be removed, so, considering that, it's mystifying how many people are talking about abuse.

Not of course that I advocate doing things that BF3 does, I do not, but that one actually IS an improvement.

[TotalBiscuit]

I find it comical how many of you old vets, who in other threads have been vehemently defending a hardline punishing PS experience where realism trumps all are not open to this.

I find it comical how you thought your OP was thread worthy and your argument sound in the first place.

[MrBloodworth]

I find it comical how many of you old vets, who in other threads have been vehemently defending a hardline punishing PS experience where realism trumps all are not open to this.

This never happened.

[Serotriptomine]

I like prone.
Prone is good.
Will it be in game? No.

Could they put it in game and not allow dolphin diving? Yep.
will they? No.

Shame.

<- Socom.

[Envenom]

I find it comical how you thought your OP was thread worthy and your argument sound in the first place.

Gosh you're cynical :lol:

[Sirisian]

Summary:
For:
Envenom - Adds to tactical gameplay
Neurotoxin - Gameplay constraints when prone (no AV, short range grenades, 1 second delay from crouching to prone). Wants leaning more than prone.
Stardouser - camping is a legitimate tactic. Deuling one on one isn't the only way to play
Frostedawg - would give up cloaking to go prone as a sniper
MacXXcaM - Similar to Red Orchestra 2
QuantumMechanic - If implemented correctly, could be a good thing. Needs transition times.
Rbstr - Same arguments against it could potentionally be used against crouching. (Make cover as tall as players).
PoisonTaco - Split. Need to test it in beta. Snipers shouldn't be able to prone and keep cloak
LegioX - Worked in WW2OL. Cooldown for prone
SoNaR - Not having prone doesn't remove camping
Hmr85 - Indifferent, not game breaking (implementation?)
Algo - Makes easy targets for snipers
Nick -
Draz -
Toppopia - Just another tactic
maradine - Tactical choice. Trade mobility for increased accuracy and hit profile
SirDart - Harder to spot (smaller profile), steadier shot. Limited uses in CQC. Reduce the vertical look angle.
Vagabond - Doesn't slow down gameplay in BF3.
Rumblepit - restricted by class and locations (outside only)
NEWSKIS -
Haro - Class restrictions. Should be beta tested.
berzerkerking - No different that using crouch as a tactic
Fara - Needs sane collision. (Feet in the wall issues).
KTNApollo - Infiltator only + cert that takes away stealth
Timey - Trade-off, mobility for more accuracy
Crator - Restrictions on its use. Crouch first.
Conq -
Memeotis - For taking cover and trading mobility for accuracy and a smaller profile
Block -
Shade Millith - indifferent
Shotokanguy -
Winfernal - neutral, isn't about camping
Bruttal - indifferent
Alduron - indifferent, Planetside 1 didn't have it
Serotriptomine - no diving prone

Against:
Eyeklops - Infiltrators will abuse it in bases. Requires the maps to be redesigned.
Raymac -
SpcFarlen - Needs an animation delay to make it work. Trade-offs.
Warborn - Encourages camping-style gameplay. Planetside has always been a more aggressive sort of shooter than something like BF3
GreatMazinkaise - Encourages static gameplay
neonlazer - BF3 implementation wouldn't work in PS2. The MCG can't be used while prone
Fuse - Planetside isn't realistic, max prone would be bad. Wants a pro/con list
Bags - Too useful in BF3
Purple - Diving prone wouldn't work in Planetside
Zenben - BF3 and COD are different than Planetside
Mod - Unnecessary
Gandhi -
Mastachief - Never implemented correctly in other games
MrBloodworth - not fun
NCLynx - Scale doesn't allow a correct implementation
Zekeen - Reduces mobility by allowing ambushes when defending (might work)
Gonefshn - Wouldn't break the game if implemented correctly. Valid tactic for snipers. No diving
Razicator - Cloaking snipers with prone would encourage camping
Tigersmith - BF3 allowed snipers to lay down and it was commonly used
elfailo - Encourages camping
Hamma - Wait for beta to see. Unnecessary in a large scale game.
CuddlyChud - Not against it, but defenders don't need help.
KnightHawk ECID - Lean would be better than prone. Cert? Limited turn angle?
The Kush -
Kurtz - Doesn't lead to camping and is useful in certain situations. Made BF3 better.
Kaw - Encourages static gameplay
Zulthus - It's in BF3
Mackenz - Lean would be better.
Greeniegriz -
Dreamcast - Changes the whole gameplay. Too late to put it in
sylphaen - Planetside isn't realistic
Malorn - Encourages camping (smaller target when prone)
dachlatte - Encourages camping
lolroflroflcake - Prone can't work in Planetside because it requires a low TTK. Prone is only useful for camping and without a low TTK it offers to no advantage. (Can't tell if for or against?)
Rare Raisin - Has its uses, but it's unnecessary
Whalenator - Slows down gameplay. Requires new base designs
Saintlycow - Everyone will be lying down.
Death2All - Other games implemented it poorly.
SKYeXile - BF3 has prone
Immigrant -
Xyntech -
Graywolves - Slows down the game. Also no diving prone
Goku -
Vancha - No ground shuffling. 20-30 degree angle of movement. Can move forward and backwards only. Delay animations. (Went on to say it provides no gameplay?)
Pyreal - Encourages camping
Winfernal - Neutral, but it's not really necessary
EVILoHOMER - Encourages camping
Jonny - Encourages camping
2coolforu - Crouched is the same as prone except prone makes your profile smaller. No diving prone. Slows the game down.
DrifterBG - Not necessary
stonelizard -
NewSith - Not necessary
RedKnights - Encourages camping
Slib - Slow transition. No dolphin dives. Limited rotation. Infiltrators only
Blackwolf - Realism. Only light assault and infiltrator can use it (argues that they wouldn't use it if given the ability: light assault can fly and infiltrator is cloaked).
JPalmer - Changes the pace and style of the game
proxy - Needs a solid implementation. Collision when rotating for instance. Doesn't fit into the current game.
Talek Krell - Gives defenders an advantage.
IMMentat - Forces everyone to hide or be killed.
IDukeNukeml -
Sturmhardt -
SniperSteve - Reduces profiles too much.
velleity - Assumes that maxes will prone.
Electrofreak -
basti -
Grimshad - not that type of game
RawketLawnchair -
duomaxwl -
Coreldan - not necessary
TotalBiscuit -

No Opinion:
The Janitor - Says he only uses vehicles and wouldn't use it?
Masahiko -
ShadoViper - Described realism

Stardouser brought this thread to my attention, and I've honestly been indecisive about the subject since it was brought up over a year ago. I gave him some quick tips on how to argue, but I was curious so I read the thread. Before I begin, I want to say the community really hasn't matured since the quick knife thread. The arguments and discussion from most of these posts show very little critical thought into the implementations outside of trivial appeal to fear arguments. There's still the irrational assumptions being made about implementations that the community has a problem getting over with in a discussion.

It seems like the arguments boil down to the implementation and based on that implementation who would be using it and when. On the implementation side we have people saying diving into a prone position hurt the gameplay in other games. Others are advocating for a transition animation from standing/crouching into prone or a delay for controlling how often prone is used. Other limitations include the angle and movement a player can perform while in the prone position and limitations on the classes that can prone.

One of the main arguments brought up against it is creating static gameplay, or otherwise changing the pace of the game, via a poor implementation that can be exploited primarily to camp. This also goes into the argument/assumption that it would only be useful for defenders and snipers.

I think the largest flaw in these arguments is the use of an assumption that a low TTK is being applied with prone. Someone else touched on this briefly. That is camping is frustrating when the TTK is low and retargetting for a lower target in a hallway means it's already too late. (Though crouching could be stated as causing the same thing as others pointed out). Anyway the frustration with camping is mostly a function of the TTK. A low TTK means that in a hallway a camper is a huge threat. For a high TTK an attacker might get shot, but the attacker is in no way at a huge disadvantage. Simply retreating and throwing a grenade (for close range campers) or going for the headshot from a range on the enemy (for ranged campers) is a valid tactic. (The attacker can strafe bullets at a range). All of this also depends greatly on the implementation.

After reviewing the posts and the arguments for an against I have to say that prone if implemented correctly would help the game in ways that crouch can't. Crouching gives a player a slight accuracy bonus and smallest profile by giving up some mobility. Prone would give the best accuracy and smallest profile while giving up almost all mobility. This is also when paired with aiming down sites for both positions.

As an example going prone behind a crate to get a better shot at the enemy in a doorway is a totally legitimate tactic. Some people read that and are immediately disgusted. I feel like the arguments against it want, as one poster said, the whole infantry gameplay to be one on one duels between two players at a time. It's unrealistic and greatly reduces the choices players can make in the game. I'm a huge fan of giving players more choices with how to deal with situations and choosing between crouching and prone is another choice players can make.

Another problem I have with a lot of the posts is the assumption that this will be used all the time. The assumption that any implementation for this must replace crouch. That would be a poor implementation. Ideally most players should be using crouch for most scenarios if prone was implemented correctly. Crator, in his wisdom, hit on one thing I prefer. Having to crouch before one can prone. The concept of a slight delay between the transition was also brought up.

With that said my ideal implementation with the advice of everyone in this thread would be:

Balanced Prone Implementation (Version 1):

Players must crouch before going prone. Very small transition from crouch into prone. (Must be stationary prior to going prone).
Collision limits if prone is an available option (including rotating while prone)
Prone limits vertical aiming
Prone is restricted to classes. (I don't want to be overly specific, but no MAX prone)
Movement while prone is slow. Can strafe slowly (for moving out of or into cover). Forward, backwards, and rotation are not limited except by collision.


Interesting thread though. I would really be interested in what the developers have to say about this topic. Personally I voted 'other' on the poll since the yes/no options really didn't capture what I wanted to say.

[MrBloodworth]

Sirisian, you misquoted my reasoning.

[Eyeklops]

I am for having prone. But I realize that the game is already designed around not having prone, and adding this late in the game probably won't happen. So you can move me into the "for" list.

[Algo]

I don't understand why my comment is considered pro-prone, since it was just a consideration, but heh.

[Stardouser]

With that said my ideal implementation with the advice of everyone in this thread would be:

Balanced Prone Implementation (Version 1):

Players must crouch before going prone. Very small transition from crouch into prone. (Must be stationary prior to going prone).
Collision limits if prone is an available option (including rotating while prone)
Prone limits vertical aiming
Prone is restricted to classes. (I don't want to be overly specific, but no MAX prone)
Movement while prone is slow. Can strafe slowly (for moving out of or into cover). Forward, backwards, and rotation are not limited except by collision.


Interesting thread though. I would really be interested in what the developers have to say about this topic. Personally I voted 'other' on the poll since the yes/no options really didn't capture what I wanted to say.

Nice analysis. I have to say though, some of those things seem like standard parts of prone, though I suppose that people who aren't accustomed to prone or who have only played a game like BF2 which really allowed dolphin diving, may not have seen what else can be done about things. For example, and again this is one of the very few things I support that BF3 did, but in BF3 you can go to prone fairly swiftly but then when you get back up, you can tell that your character is taking a knee first then stands up. If you are aiming at someone and they move and you stand up, your sight(your aiming through the sight) moves until the animation finishes. This is VERY annoying when you are aiming your Javelin or your RPG at a tank and it moves to a place where your rocket might catch on a rock and you have to stand to fire. And I say this because the annoyance is one of the reasons why it doesn't do much to ruin BF3. It's also slow in terms of "strafing" (if you can call it that while prone), it's often easier to stand up and reprone in another direction.

[Envenom]

Summary:
For:
Envenom - Adds to tactical gameplay
Neurotoxin - Gameplay constraints when prone (no AV, short range grenades, 1 second delay from crouching to prone). Wants leaning more than prone.
Stardouser - camping is a legitimate tactic. Deuling one on one isn't the only way to play
Frostedawg - would give up cloaking to go prone as a sniper
MacXXcaM - Similar to Red Orchestra 2
QuantumMechanic - If implemented correctly, could be a good thing. Needs transition times.
Rbstr - Same arguments against it could potentionally be used against crouching. (Make cover as tall as players).
PoisonTaco - Split. Need to test it in beta. Snipers shouldn't be able to prone and keep cloak
LegioX - Worked in WW2OL. Cooldown for prone
SoNaR - Not having prone doesn't remove camping
Hmr85 - Indifferent, not game breaking (implementation?)
Algo - Makes easy targets for snipers
Nick -
Draz -
Toppopia - Just another tactic
maradine - Tactical choice. Trade mobility for increased accuracy and hit profile
SirDart - Harder to spot (smaller profile), steadier shot. Limited uses in CQC. Reduce the vertical look angle.
Vagabond - Doesn't slow down gameplay in BF3.
Rumblepit - restricted by class and locations (outside only)
NEWSKIS -
Haro - Class restrictions. Should be beta tested.
berzerkerking - No different that using crouch as a tactic
Fara - Needs sane collision. (Feet in the wall issues).
KTNApollo - Infiltator only + cert that takes away stealth
Timey - Trade-off, mobility for more accuracy
Crator - Restrictions on its use. Crouch first.
Conq -
Memeotis - For taking cover and trading mobility for accuracy and a smaller profile
Block -
Shade Millith - indifferent
Shotokanguy -
Winfernal - neutral, isn't about camping
Bruttal - indifferent
Alduron - indifferent, Planetside 1 didn't have it
Serotriptomine - no diving prone

Against:
Eyeklops - Infiltrators will abuse it in bases. Requires the maps to be redesigned.
Raymac -
SpcFarlen - Needs an animation delay to make it work. Trade-offs.
Warborn - Encourages camping-style gameplay. Planetside has always been a more aggressive sort of shooter than something like BF3
GreatMazinkaise - Encourages static gameplay
neonlazer - BF3 implementation wouldn't work in PS2. The MCG can't be used while prone
Fuse - Planetside isn't realistic, max prone would be bad. Wants a pro/con list
Bags - Too useful in BF3
Purple - Diving prone wouldn't work in Planetside
Zenben - BF3 and COD are different than Planetside
Mod - Unnecessary
Gandhi -
Mastachief - Never implemented correctly in other games
MrBloodworth - not fun
NCLynx - Scale doesn't allow a correct implementation
Zekeen - Reduces mobility by allowing ambushes when defending (might work)
Gonefshn - Wouldn't break the game if implemented correctly. Valid tactic for snipers. No diving
Razicator - Cloaking snipers with prone would encourage camping
Tigersmith - BF3 allowed snipers to lay down and it was commonly used
elfailo - Encourages camping
Hamma - Wait for beta to see. Unnecessary in a large scale game.
CuddlyChud - Not against it, but defenders don't need help.
KnightHawk ECID - Lean would be better than prone. Cert? Limited turn angle?
The Kush -
Kurtz - Doesn't lead to camping and is useful in certain situations. Made BF3 better.
Kaw - Encourages static gameplay
Zulthus - It's in BF3
Mackenz - Lean would be better.
Greeniegriz -
Dreamcast - Changes the whole gameplay. Too late to put it in
sylphaen - Planetside isn't realistic
Malorn - Encourages camping (smaller target when prone)
dachlatte - Encourages camping
lolroflroflcake - Prone can't work in Planetside because it requires a low TTK. Prone is only useful for camping and without a low TTK it offers to no advantage. (Can't tell if for or against?)
Rare Raisin - Has its uses, but it's unnecessary
Whalenator - Slows down gameplay. Requires new base designs
Saintlycow - Everyone will be lying down.
Death2All - Other games implemented it poorly.
SKYeXile - BF3 has prone
Immigrant -
Xyntech -
Graywolves - Slows down the game. Also no diving prone
Goku -
Vancha - No ground shuffling. 20-30 degree angle of movement. Can move forward and backwards only. Delay animations. (Went on to say it provides no gameplay?)
Pyreal - Encourages camping
Winfernal - Neutral, but it's not really necessary
EVILoHOMER - Encourages camping
Jonny - Encourages camping
2coolforu - Crouched is the same as prone except prone makes your profile smaller. No diving prone. Slows the game down.
DrifterBG - Not necessary
stonelizard -
NewSith - Not necessary
RedKnights - Encourages camping
Slib - Slow transition. No dolphin dives. Limited rotation. Infiltrators only
Blackwolf - Realism. Only light assault and infiltrator can use it (argues that they wouldn't use it if given the ability: light assault can fly and infiltrator is cloaked).
JPalmer - Changes the pace and style of the game
proxy - Needs a solid implementation. Collision when rotating for instance. Doesn't fit into the current game.
Talek Krell - Gives defenders an advantage.
IMMentat - Forces everyone to hide or be killed.
IDukeNukeml -
Sturmhardt -
SniperSteve - Reduces profiles too much.
velleity - Assumes that maxes will prone.
Electrofreak -
basti -
Grimshad - not that type of game
RawketLawnchair -
duomaxwl -
Coreldan - not necessary
TotalBiscuit -

No Opinion:
The Janitor - Says he only uses vehicles and wouldn't use it?
Masahiko -
ShadoViper - Described realism

Stardouser brought this thread to my attention, and I've honestly been indecisive about the subject since it was brought up over a year ago. I gave him some quick tips on how to argue, but I was curious so I read the thread. Before I begin, I want to say the community really hasn't matured since the quick knife thread. The arguments and discussion from most of these posts show very little critical thought into the implementations outside of trivial appeal to fear arguments. There's still the irrational assumptions being made about implementations that the community has a problem getting over with in a discussion.

It seems like the arguments boil down to the implementation and based on that implementation who would be using it and when. On the implementation side we have people saying diving into a prone position hurt the gameplay in other games. Others are advocating for a transition animation from standing/crouching into prone or a delay for controlling how often prone is used. Other limitations include the angle and movement a player can perform while in the prone position and limitations on the classes that can prone.

One of the main arguments brought up against it is creating static gameplay, or otherwise changing the pace of the game, via a poor implementation that can be exploited primarily to camp. This also goes into the argument/assumption that it would only be useful for defenders and snipers.

I think the largest flaw in these arguments is the use of an assumption that a low TTK is being applied with prone. Someone else touched on this briefly. That is camping is frustrating when the TTK is low and retargetting for a lower target in a hallway means it's already too late. (Though crouching could be stated as causing the same thing as others pointed out). Anyway the frustration with camping is mostly a function of the TTK. A low TTK means that in a hallway a camper is a huge threat. For a high TTK an attacker might get shot, but the attacker is in no way at a huge disadvantage. Simply retreating and throwing a grenade (for close range campers) or going for the headshot from a range on the enemy (for ranged campers) is a valid tactic. (The attacker can strafe bullets at a range). All of this also depends greatly on the implementation.

After reviewing the posts and the arguments for an against I have to say that prone if implemented correctly would help the game in ways that crouch can't. Crouching gives a player a slight accuracy bonus and smallest profile by giving up some mobility. Prone would give the best accuracy and smallest profile while giving up almost all mobility. This is also when paired with aiming down sites for both positions.

As an example going prone behind a crate to get a better shot at the enemy in a doorway is a totally legitimate tactic. Some people read that and are immediately disgusted. I feel like the arguments against it want, as one poster said, the whole infantry gameplay to be one on one duels between two players at a time. It's unrealistic and greatly reduces the choices players can make in the game. I'm a huge fan of giving players more choices with how to deal with situations and choosing between crouching and prone is another choice players can make.

Another problem I have with a lot of the posts is the assumption that this will be used all the time. The assumption that any implementation for this must replace crouch. That would be a poor implementation. Ideally most players should be using crouch for most scenarios if prone was implemented correctly. Crator, in his wisdom, hit on one thing I prefer. Having to crouch before one can prone. The concept of a slight delay between the transition was also brought up.

With that said my ideal implementation with the advice of everyone in this thread would be:

Balanced Prone Implementation (Version 1):

Players must crouch before going prone. Very small transition from crouch into prone. (Must be stationary prior to going prone).
Collision limits if prone is an available option (including rotating while prone)
Prone limits vertical aiming
Prone is restricted to classes. (I don't want to be overly specific, but no MAX prone)
Movement while prone is slow. Can strafe slowly (for moving out of or into cover). Forward, backwards, and rotation are not limited except by collision.


Interesting thread though. I would really be interested in what the developers have to say about this topic. Personally I voted 'other' on the poll since the yes/no options really didn't capture what I wanted to say.

Excellent post. You really laid it all out expertly. Thanks for consolidating all of these points.

Boom. :)

[Sirisian]

Sirisian, you misquoted my reasoning.
This is one area where I like that Planetside is somewhat "arcade-y".

Prone is simply unnecessary, and not really fun.
Sorry for that. I was mostly grabbing the newer pieces of information since I already had a few people simply saying "no, unnecessary" with no other explanation. I took "not really fun" as a legitimate reasoning toward why you didn't like it. I couldn't tell if the arcade comment was part of that.

I am for having prone. But I realize that the game is already designed around not having prone, and adding this late in the game probably won't happen. So you can move me into the "for" list.
The name matched with comments was just so I knew who they came from. I wasn't attempting to put you into a group, just your comment so I could get a quick pro/con list setup to figure out anyone's criticisms with prone.

The idea of "already designed around not having prone" has come up a few times in the thread. I found that interesting since the game and its cover system looks like it's still in the early development. Most of what we've seen is just basic base layouts and paths. A box that you can crouch behind is very similar to a box you can prone behind. It's as if special doodads would be added into the game specifically for prone. Not really necessary unless you imagine prone will be used heavily indoors. I'm imagining it being used at night for instance where a LA or some class might be laying next to a rock taking accurate shots at the enemy. The player could then get up if they wanted to a crouched position and continue to shoot or stand and move forward. Rather fluid motions.

I don't understand why my comment is considered pro-prone, since it was just a consideration, but heh.
I just wanted to say that a sniper will shoot your face off far easier if you are prone rather than just (oh god advanced mechanics) sprint zig zagging.
Planetside 2 has sprint. I took that to mean that prone was a valid tactic. I might have read into that a little too much. :)

[Envenom]

But I realize that the game is already designed around not having prone, and adding this late in the game probably won't happen.

This late in the game? The game is pre-alpha. Just sayin, anything can change still. :)

[Sledgecrushr]

This late in the game? The game is pre-alpha. Just sayin, anything can change still. :)

I think the game is pre beta.

[Envenom]

I think the game is pre beta.

You get my point.

[Eyeklops]

Maps are not the only thing. They would need animations too. From what I understand they already hacked out lots of old PS1 style animations due to technical limitations (Holstering, enter/exit vehicle). I would LOVE to have prone, just don't see it happening.

[Blackwolf]

Summary:
For:
Envenom - Adds to tactical gameplay
Neurotoxin - Gameplay constraints when prone (no AV, short range grenades, 1 second delay from crouching to prone). Wants leaning more than prone.
Stardouser - camping is a legitimate tactic. Deuling one on one isn't the only way to play
Frostedawg - would give up cloaking to go prone as a sniper
MacXXcaM - Similar to Red Orchestra 2
QuantumMechanic - If implemented correctly, could be a good thing. Needs transition times.
Rbstr - Same arguments against it could potentionally be used against crouching. (Make cover as tall as players).
PoisonTaco - Split. Need to test it in beta. Snipers shouldn't be able to prone and keep cloak
LegioX - Worked in WW2OL. Cooldown for prone
SoNaR - Not having prone doesn't remove camping
Hmr85 - Indifferent, not game breaking (implementation?)
Algo - Makes easy targets for snipers
Nick -
Draz -
Toppopia - Just another tactic
maradine - Tactical choice. Trade mobility for increased accuracy and hit profile
SirDart - Harder to spot (smaller profile), steadier shot. Limited uses in CQC. Reduce the vertical look angle.
Vagabond - Doesn't slow down gameplay in BF3.
Rumblepit - restricted by class and locations (outside only)
NEWSKIS -
Haro - Class restrictions. Should be beta tested.
berzerkerking - No different that using crouch as a tactic
Fara - Needs sane collision. (Feet in the wall issues).
KTNApollo - Infiltator only + cert that takes away stealth
Timey - Trade-off, mobility for more accuracy
Crator - Restrictions on its use. Crouch first.
Conq -
Memeotis - For taking cover and trading mobility for accuracy and a smaller profile
Block -
Shade Millith - indifferent
Shotokanguy -
Winfernal - neutral, isn't about camping
Bruttal - indifferent
Alduron - indifferent, Planetside 1 didn't have it
Serotriptomine - no diving prone

Against:
Eyeklops - Infiltrators will abuse it in bases. Requires the maps to be redesigned.
Raymac -
SpcFarlen - Needs an animation delay to make it work. Trade-offs.
Warborn - Encourages camping-style gameplay. Planetside has always been a more aggressive sort of shooter than something like BF3
GreatMazinkaise - Encourages static gameplay
neonlazer - BF3 implementation wouldn't work in PS2. The MCG can't be used while prone
Fuse - Planetside isn't realistic, max prone would be bad. Wants a pro/con list
Bags - Too useful in BF3
Purple - Diving prone wouldn't work in Planetside
Zenben - BF3 and COD are different than Planetside
Mod - Unnecessary
Gandhi -
Mastachief - Never implemented correctly in other games
MrBloodworth - not fun
NCLynx - Scale doesn't allow a correct implementation
Zekeen - Reduces mobility by allowing ambushes when defending (might work)
Gonefshn - Wouldn't break the game if implemented correctly. Valid tactic for snipers. No diving
Razicator - Cloaking snipers with prone would encourage camping
Tigersmith - BF3 allowed snipers to lay down and it was commonly used
elfailo - Encourages camping
Hamma - Wait for beta to see. Unnecessary in a large scale game.
CuddlyChud - Not against it, but defenders don't need help.
KnightHawk ECID - Lean would be better than prone. Cert? Limited turn angle?
The Kush -
Kurtz - Doesn't lead to camping and is useful in certain situations. Made BF3 better.
Kaw - Encourages static gameplay
Zulthus - It's in BF3
Mackenz - Lean would be better.
Greeniegriz -
Dreamcast - Changes the whole gameplay. Too late to put it in
sylphaen - Planetside isn't realistic
Malorn - Encourages camping (smaller target when prone)
dachlatte - Encourages camping
lolroflroflcake - Prone can't work in Planetside because it requires a low TTK. Prone is only useful for camping and without a low TTK it offers to no advantage. (Can't tell if for or against?)
Rare Raisin - Has its uses, but it's unnecessary
Whalenator - Slows down gameplay. Requires new base designs
Saintlycow - Everyone will be lying down.
Death2All - Other games implemented it poorly.
SKYeXile - BF3 has prone
Immigrant -
Xyntech -
Graywolves - Slows down the game. Also no diving prone
Goku -
Vancha - No ground shuffling. 20-30 degree angle of movement. Can move forward and backwards only. Delay animations. (Went on to say it provides no gameplay?)
Pyreal - Encourages camping
Winfernal - Neutral, but it's not really necessary
EVILoHOMER - Encourages camping
Jonny - Encourages camping
2coolforu - Crouched is the same as prone except prone makes your profile smaller. No diving prone. Slows the game down.
DrifterBG - Not necessary
stonelizard -
NewSith - Not necessary
RedKnights - Encourages camping
Slib - Slow transition. No dolphin dives. Limited rotation. Infiltrators only
Blackwolf - Realism. Only light assault and infiltrator can use it (argues that they wouldn't use it if given the ability: light assault can fly and infiltrator is cloaked).
JPalmer - Changes the pace and style of the game
proxy - Needs a solid implementation. Collision when rotating for instance. Doesn't fit into the current game.
Talek Krell - Gives defenders an advantage.
IMMentat - Forces everyone to hide or be killed.
IDukeNukeml -
Sturmhardt -
SniperSteve - Reduces profiles too much.
velleity - Assumes that maxes will prone.
Electrofreak -
basti -
Grimshad - not that type of game
RawketLawnchair -
duomaxwl -
Coreldan - not necessary
TotalBiscuit -

No Opinion:
The Janitor - Says he only uses vehicles and wouldn't use it?
Masahiko -
ShadoViper - Described realism

Stardouser brought this thread to my attention, and I've honestly been indecisive about the subject since it was brought up over a year ago. I gave him some quick tips on how to argue, but I was curious so I read the thread. Before I begin, I want to say the community really hasn't matured since the quick knife thread. The arguments and discussion from most of these posts show very little critical thought into the implementations outside of trivial appeal to fear arguments. There's still the irrational assumptions being made about implementations that the community has a problem getting over with in a discussion.

It seems like the arguments boil down to the implementation and based on that implementation who would be using it and when. On the implementation side we have people saying diving into a prone position hurt the gameplay in other games. Others are advocating for a transition animation from standing/crouching into prone or a delay for controlling how often prone is used. Other limitations include the angle and movement a player can perform while in the prone position and limitations on the classes that can prone.

One of the main arguments brought up against it is creating static gameplay, or otherwise changing the pace of the game, via a poor implementation that can be exploited primarily to camp. This also goes into the argument/assumption that it would only be useful for defenders and snipers.

I think the largest flaw in these arguments is the use of an assumption that a low TTK is being applied with prone. Someone else touched on this briefly. That is camping is frustrating when the TTK is low and retargetting for a lower target in a hallway means it's already too late. (Though crouching could be stated as causing the same thing as others pointed out). Anyway the frustration with camping is mostly a function of the TTK. A low TTK means that in a hallway a camper is a huge threat. For a high TTK an attacker might get shot, but the attacker is in no way at a huge disadvantage. Simply retreating and throwing a grenade (for close range campers) or going for the headshot from a range on the enemy (for ranged campers) is a valid tactic. (The attacker can strafe bullets at a range). All of this also depends greatly on the implementation.

After reviewing the posts and the arguments for an against I have to say that prone if implemented correctly would help the game in ways that crouch can't. Crouching gives a player a slight accuracy bonus and smallest profile by giving up some mobility. Prone would give the best accuracy and smallest profile while giving up almost all mobility. This is also when paired with aiming down sites for both positions.

As an example going prone behind a crate to get a better shot at the enemy in a doorway is a totally legitimate tactic. Some people read that and are immediately disgusted. I feel like the arguments against it want, as one poster said, the whole infantry gameplay to be one on one duels between two players at a time. It's unrealistic and greatly reduces the choices players can make in the game. I'm a huge fan of giving players more choices with how to deal with situations and choosing between crouching and prone is another choice players can make.

Another problem I have with a lot of the posts is the assumption that this will be used all the time. The assumption that any implementation for this must replace crouch. That would be a poor implementation. Ideally most players should be using crouch for most scenarios if prone was implemented correctly. Crator, in his wisdom, hit on one thing I prefer. Having to crouch before one can prone. The concept of a slight delay between the transition was also brought up.

With that said my ideal implementation with the advice of everyone in this thread would be:

Balanced Prone Implementation (Version 1):

Players must crouch before going prone. Very small transition from crouch into prone. (Must be stationary prior to going prone).
Collision limits if prone is an available option (including rotating while prone)
Prone limits vertical aiming
Prone is restricted to classes. (I don't want to be overly specific, but no MAX prone)
Movement while prone is slow. Can strafe slowly (for moving out of or into cover). Forward, backwards, and rotation are not limited except by collision.


Interesting thread though. I would really be interested in what the developers have to say about this topic. Personally I voted 'other' on the poll since the yes/no options really didn't capture what I wanted to say.

It is all but useless, yes I saw where you had my "argument" in your little summary.

No it doesn't promote camping. It's just a death trap for anyone but snipers, and snipers (I know) can and will exploit the holy living shit out of it. There was a bug in PS1 that was probably unfix-able. It was refered to as the edge bug or something like that. Basically you could creep up to the edge, keep your reticle barely over the edge of a cliff or over hang compared to your target (most often used against snipers but effective against an entire base). This made you practically immune to return fire. No matter how much time others took to aim at you or how far their reticle was on you, they would miss 95% of the time.

The problem was tenfold because it took a very long time to aim so very precisely at a target that you only had a 5% chance to hit, meanwhile your target could shoot you anywhere on your body. I exploited it only to counter it and got good enough to use bridges and walls in bases while sniping from the ground level of the courtyard. Also helped that I had the 12x zoom implant. Think about having to counter sniper someone on a cliff face with the benefit of marginal cover but without the angle to hit a target as small as a head from 500m away (in game).

Point being that you should consider all possible uses for this mechanic. Not just the 2 or so you might think to use it yourself. It's about as needed as infantry 3rdPV, and pretty much as exploitable.

[Stardouser]

It is all but useless, yes I saw where you had my "argument" in your little summary.

No it doesn't promote camping. It's just a death trap for anyone but snipers, and snipers (I know) can and will exploit the holy living shit out of it. There was a bug in PS1 that was probably unfix-able. It was refered to as the edge bug or something like that. Basically you could creep up to the edge, keep your reticle barely over the edge of a cliff or over hang compared to your target (most often used against snipers but effective against an entire base). This made you practically immune to return fire. No matter how much time others took to aim at you or how far their reticle was on you, they would miss 95% of the time.

The problem was tenfold because it took a very long time to aim so very precisely at a target that you only had a 5% chance to hit, meanwhile your target could shoot you anywhere on your body. I exploited it only to counter it and got good enough to use bridges and walls in bases while sniping from the ground level of the courtyard. Also helped that I had the 12x zoom implant. Think about having to counter sniper someone on a cliff face with the benefit of marginal cover but without the angle to hit a target as small as a head from 500m away (in game).

Point being that you should consider all possible uses for this mechanic. Not just the 2 or so you might think to use it yourself. It's about as needed as infantry 3rdPV, and pretty much as exploitable.

So basically, a bug that probably won't exist again(completely different engine, infinitesimal chance of same bug) means just don't have it? Your whole argument about being exploitable was based on a bug that can't possibly exist again.

But you bring up an interesting point. Will bullets come from a player's forehead like many shooters, or actually from your muzzle? This affects how much your head has to stick out while prone.

[Blackwolf]

So basically, a bug that probably won't exist again(completely different engine, infinitesimal chance of same bug) means just don't have it? Your whole argument about being exploitable was based on a bug that can't possibly exist again.

The bug story was an example of a situation that prone would generate all over again.

The fact was that the edge bug left just a head and some shoulders visible, half the time you did it, your rifle collided with the environment and still fired just fine. Rounds shot at you would nail the cliff face or fly right over head. It made you virtually invincible to enemy fire. It worked so well that on the rare occasions you were hit, you could safely maintain your position and fire a shot or two before backing up and healing.

And yes I understand that most snipers will be 1 shot wonders when nailed by snipers in the head. The problem is the difficulty of shooting a prone target with an altitude advantage vs hitting a target who most likely couldn't go prone (I imagine aiming upwards would be severely limited), and even if they could, wouldn't benefit for crap from it. Add strategic use of cloaking and you have an un-counterable sniper.

It becomes a tactically unfair advantage for the sniper at altitude, or even at level with the target. PS1 did just fine without prone, PS2 does not need it.

[Sirisian]

...
Okay so that bug won't be in Planetside 2. I wasn't arguing about what bugs to implement into the game. I was giving my interpretation of what a balanced prone idea would be like and one I feel I would use in the game. I don't really plan on sniping. I'd like to use prone as a medic or engineer to get a better shot though if I wanted to. I think you're over thinking the implementation and the bugs that could happen. How about we leave that to the professionals. Okay?

[Stardouser]

It becomes a tactically unfair advantage for the sniper at altitude, or even at level with the target. PS1 did just fine without prone, PS2 does not need it.

Small correction; it becomes a tactical advantage. If it was unfair, then anyone using cover against someone in the open would be considered unfair(though I think some people think it IS unfair to fire from cover). Although - if you have a height advantage, crouch can accomplish virtually the same thing.

Tactics to deal with it include suppressive fire to make him back away from the edge while someone runs up after him.

[Blackwolf]

Small correction; it becomes a tactical advantage. If it was unfair, then anyone using cover against someone in the open would be considered unfair(though I think some people think it IS unfair to fire from cover).

Tactics to deal with it include suppressive fire to make him back away from the edge while someone runs up after him.

If you could apply suppressive fire against someone over 500m away then I'd call hax. Discussing counter tactics doesn't work at this point since neither of us have a clue what kind of relationship ARs will have with sniper rifles. But I'd be willing to bet that, were I a sniper in prone, I'd laugh at you before shooting you.

Tactically unfair advantage, similar to wall humping with 3rdPV.

Look this isn't an argument worth having. Poll says 65% no. You can debunk the various reasons however you want, it's pretty much a matter of it not being wanted. Balance or not, issues or not, time consumptions or not, it's just not wanted.

And no, it's not needed.

[Zulthus]

Zulthus - It's in BF3


Well, you pretty much completely missed my point and most others I'd guess, I said no prone because it encourages camping and slows down gameplay.

[Saifoda]

Gotta say -- lotta haters on the prone in here. If your argument is "this isn't COD" ....seriously? Well you're right, this isn't COD so we shouldn't have guns either.......... Sorry, but statements like that are a logical fallacy and honestly just bug me.

But I hear you guys that are saying it's going to turn it into either too fast ("diving" that is pretty common in cod/mw3) and then the camping argument as well.


Here's the thing on camping: If you know how to camp well, you can do it crouching. Snipers in PS1 had no problem being a nuisance with only crouching. It's largely dependent on the terrain, prone or no-prone doesn't make a huge difference.

As for the diving, there's a pretty simple retort to that argument: Make it so if you do go prone (and get up from prone) that it takes time and you're unable to fire during that time (just like in real life). Good example here: operation Flash point Red river: bouncey prone - YouTube



Here's my stance (pun intended) is honestly I'm fine with it either way, but if done properly (vid above) I think adding prone will add another level of realism to the game.

[SKYeXile]

Here's my stance (pun intended) is honestly I'm fine with it either way, but if done properly (vid above) I think adding prone will add another level of realism to the game.

Realism in video games is reason enough not to have it in.

[Stardouser]

If you could apply suppressive fire against someone over 500m away then I'd call hax. Discussing counter tactics doesn't work at this point since neither of us have a clue what kind of relationship ARs will have with sniper rifles. But I'd be willing to bet that, were I a sniper in prone, I'd laugh at you before shooting you.

Tactically unfair advantage, similar to wall humping with 3rdPV.

Look this isn't an argument worth having. Poll says 65% no. You can debunk the various reasons however you want, it's pretty much a matter of it not being wanted. Balance or not, issues or not, time consumptions or not, it's just not wanted.

And no, it's not needed.

There's no comparison between 3rd person and prone.

As for the not wanted argument, most of those sentiments are about people not camping. First, that's trying to enforce subjective playstyle opinions on others; and secondly, there are other factors which will promote camping even more, that the same people accept. If there was consistency here, that is to say, the prone haters recognized those other factors that promote camping even more than prone, and would compromise on them, then it might be easier to accept no prone. TTK for example, so many people are saying it's fine, but it's going to promote camping due to being low. Punishing respawn timers and/or possibly long runbacks from Galaxies as well(subject to beta showing how close to the objective you can deploy a Galaxy). If we could compromise better on these things, prone wouldn't be so important.

[Hypevosa]

I don't really understand the hatred of prone. The instant anyone comes up behind a prone person they're dead. Especially with light infantry also jetpacking around, and the usually limited upward aiming that comes with prone, it would be a massive liability with any jetpackers bouncing around the battlefield.

[p0intman]

do it, ill add it to the list of things i ruthlessly abuse to make people cry. hello dolphin diving.

[Envenom]

It becomes a tactically unfair advantage for the sniper at altitude, or even at level with the target. PS1 did just fine without prone, PS2 does not need it.

If you could apply suppressive fire against someone over 500m away then I'd call hax. Discussing counter tactics doesn't work at this point since neither of us have a clue what kind of relationship ARs will have with sniper rifles. But I'd be willing to bet that, were I a sniper in prone, I'd laugh at you before shooting you.

Tactically unfair advantage, similar to wall humping with 3rdPV.


You're kind of being a big baby right now. Seriously? "He's on a hill and has a height advantage... it's not fair."

BRO, it's a war game. Get in a reaver and obliterate his ass! QQ

[LegioX]

Dolphin diving excuse is really getting annoying. There are plenty of ways to make prone, without having people hump the ground every 2-3 sec like in COD.

[p0intman]

Dolphin diving excuse is really getting annoying. There are plenty of ways to make prone, without having people hump the ground every 2-3 sec like in COD.
not with higby looking to mirror it it isnt.

[Sirisian]

Zulthus - It's in BF3
Well, you pretty much completely missed my point and most others I'd guess, I said no prone because it encourages camping and slows down gameplay.
Please read all the posts before commenting. I mentioned I didn't want to reiterate points over. I was just compiling a list of main complaints by people. Also your fascination with BF3 was evident in your posts comparing a possible prone implementation to BF3 and other games. You're fixated on that implementation and are blinded to other ones. (Not the only person. I remember the words "dolphin diving" coming up a few times so I jotted it down as something people didn't want).
Some people just want to watch the world burn. And by that I mean there are some people from BF3 who just want every single lame and stupid feature from "modern" FPS games. (edit Prone isn't stupid it just doesn't fit in the game, everything else is) Or just a carbon copy of BF3 on a massive scale.
The implementation I defined would fit perfectly into Planetside 2 allowing more complex gameplay. The biggest problem in BF3 wasn't the implementation directly. It was the TTK that revolved around it which made it so effective. You'll find this in other games also where prone takes over crouch in effectiveness showing off the design flaw. There's a line where with a low TTK and how easy the prone is to use that it crosses into the point where using it offers no disadvantage. Most any game with a prone that can be activated with a diving prone crosses into this. There's no noticeable advantage between using it and crouch. There's where Planetside 2 would need to make the difference. Forcing a player to go from a crouch to prone and back in a delayed animation greatly separates the uses.
I'm not complaining about it slowing down gameplay, I'm complaining about the uses being dolphin diving and camping. You KNOW for a fact that that's what the vast majority of people will use it for.
Camping is a legitimate tactic. With a high TTK using camping in a CQC region doesn't affect the game much. People will just throw a grenade in or go in for a headshot on the guy on the ground. You only see camping being a problem when the TTK allows someone to pick off people before they can react at a door. This is all in the game's implementation. I've written very long explanations in the past relating TTK and the number of choices a player has to make as a justification for allowing more complex tactics.

The game has already been designed without prone in mind so I think we're okay. Crouching won't be a problem since terrain and cover objects will be tall enough to protect you. There, no reason for having prone now. You can escape enemy fire, and since apparently all you want it for, crouch takes that role.
The game is hardly designed at this point. We just got asked by arclegger a few days ago about what cover options we want. Most of it is still in flux about how cover and combat will play out. It's a moot argument to try to say "we don't have time to make the game better".
That's so true. God damn. I remember when games used to be good. But sadly we have these people that want every damned game to be a cookie cutter piece of shit.

From all of the comments on youtube, to most of the new people on this forum, 'It looks like halo" "lawlz BF ripoff" "where iz the m16 and stuffz?" "PUT EVERYTHING FROM BATTLEFIELD IN TO THIS GAME"

Go away.

As I said you expect an implementation to be identically take 1:1 from the BF series. It just wouldn't work and I've agreed with you on that already. Same reason most of the gameplay has to be tweaked for a larger amount of players (and balanced during beta). I think these kind of comments accent your fear of BF gameplay mechanics. It's essentially like a beginner joining and going "we can't have planes in the game. Look at what they do to soldiers in BF3. They get 100 kills a match" where you're wise enough to know that they are indeed not similar at all. Same goes for say a sniper rifle. Nobody expects a BF3 sniper rifle in the game with the same balance. (Or when I've analyzed threads in the past only a few people said they wanted that). It's a realization that anything that is adapted from other games is going to be different and ultimately unique to Planetside 2 because of what it is.
PS2's terrain and cover was designed with crouch only gameplay in mind. This will not be a problem. Crouch now fills the role prone did.

Notice, though, how in BFBC2 camping was not nearly as much a problem as it was in BF3, and its combat was much more fun because people were actually running around instead of sitting in one spot.
Crouch doesn't fill the role prone did. There was no prone. Crouch fills its own role of allowing players the choice of trading mobility for a smaller profile and more accuracy. Now all prone does is add onto that and says "if you want to take the time you can get more accuracy and an even lower profile but you have to give up almost all your mobility. When you bring in broken implementations with diving prone you cloud what the true implementation should be and what the developers should be aiming for.
That's your opinion. Many, many hardcore BF fans loved the game and I did too. I've played every BF since 1942 and I think that BC2 was more fun than BF3. BF2142 was the absolute best, however. It took everything great about BF2 and made it prettier with more toys to play with.
To me it sounded like you had played BF games too much and what you want is a better BF game and are assuming that any prone implementation has to follow older BF prone implementations or be taken out completely. It's a very narrow way to look at gameplay implementations.

[Cosmical]

I suppose people have addressed the fact that to do prone right you have to spread the persons body mass along the floor. COD does this, it ensures that the player cannot hide in places unrealistically, and that their legs dont clip through the wall giving away their possition outside the building. But doing this adds a whole range of other problems.

Best example of prone being implimented are between Bad Company and Battlefield 3. If you ask yourself honestly how much does it change combat, its not alot. Once you get passed the ability to hide in bushes. Which i did in Vietnam quite successfully anyway.

[Zulthus]

You took that much time to reply to me? I don't see why, but I might as well reply back.

Please read all the posts before commenting. I mentioned I didn't want to reiterate points over. I was just compiling a list of main complaints by people. Also your fascination with BF3 was evident in your posts comparing a possible prone implementation to BF3 and other games. You're fixated on that implementation and are blinded to other ones. (Not the only person. I remember the words "dolphin diving" coming up a few times so I jotted it down as something people didn't want).

Not just BF3. In general, I dislike any prone in any game other than something like ARMA. It slows down gameplay and is almost never used productively, and almost always leads to people camping doorways, hallways, etc. There is no real use to it other than that. Digging down can be done by crouching, there's no need to go prone to defend a point.

The implementation I defined would fit perfectly into Planetside 2 allowing more complex gameplay. The biggest problem in BF3 wasn't the implementation directly. It was the TTK that revolved around it which made it so effective. You'll find this in other games also where prone takes over crouch in effectiveness showing off the design flaw. There's a line where with a low TTK and how easy the prone is to use that it crosses into the point where using it offers no disadvantage. Most any game with a prone that can be activated with a diving prone crosses into this. There's no noticeable advantage between using it and crouch. There's where Planetside 2 would need to make the difference. Forcing a player to go from a crouch to prone and back in a delayed animation greatly separates the uses.

The TTK between BF3 and PS2 seems nearly identical, maybe a difference of .5 seconds. What do you propose as separate uses for crouch and prone? I honestly cannot think of any. Accuracy is not a good argument because I should not be forced to hit the floor to line up a good shot. Give good aimed accuracy to a crouched stance and there isn't even a reason to think about putting it in.

Camping is a legitimate tactic. With a high TTK using camping in a CQC region doesn't affect the game much. People will just throw a grenade in or go in for a headshot on the guy on the ground. You only see camping being a problem when the TTK allows someone to pick off people before they can react at a door. This is all in the game's implementation. I've written very long explanations in the past relating TTK and the number of choices a player has to make as a justification for allowing more complex tactics.

Campers don't sit in the middle of an open area where they can be headshotted or blown up by a grenade. I'm sorry, I don't and never will find camping to be a legitimate tactic. You shouldn't rack up score because you're sitting in a corner mowing people down with your LMG before they knew what hit them. The TTK difference between PS2 and BF3 isn't significant enough to say they'd be able to react before they were killed.

The game is hardly designed at this point. We just got asked by arclegger a few days ago about what cover options we want. Most of it is still in flux about how cover and combat will play out. It's a moot argument to try to say "we don't have time to make the game better".

If you looked back at the thread you'd notice he only mentioned crouch. The game is not being designed around being able to prone. It simply is not needed. What do you mean the game is hardly designed, anyway? It's extremely far in development. Sure, we have time to make the game better, but putting prone in isn't necessarily "Better".

As I said you expect an implementation to be identically take 1:1 from the BF series. It just wouldn't work and I've agreed with you on that already. Same reason most of the gameplay has to be tweaked for a larger amount of players (and balanced during beta). I think these kind of comments accent your fear of BF gameplay mechanics. It's essentially like a beginner joining and going "we can't have planes in the game. Look at what they do to soldiers in BF3. They get 100 kills a match" where you're wise enough to know that they are indeed not similar at all. Same goes for say a sniper rifle. Nobody expects a BF3 sniper rifle in the game with the same balance. (Or when I've analyzed threads in the past only a few people said they wanted that). It's a realization that anything that is adapted from other games is going to be different and ultimately unique to Planetside 2 because of what it is.

Just like the minimap and squad bar, eh... and yes, I do fear some BF mechanics. If you've ever played 64 man CQC on BF3 you'd know how bad of a problem camping is. Let me use Metro as an example... it's seems to be similar to some of they layouts we've seen with all of the stairs and rooms... it's literally impossible to count the amount of people you'll see lined up prone just farming people who attempt to run in any door accessing their side. This would very likely be amplified with the amount of players fighting CQC in PS2... 400 in a base maybe? Oh god, the nightmares...

Crouch doesn't fill the role prone did. There was no prone. Crouch fills its own role of allowing players the choice of trading mobility for a smaller profile and more accuracy. Now all prone does is add onto that and says "if you want to take the time you can get more accuracy and an even lower profile but you have to give up almost all your mobility. When you bring in broken implementations with diving prone you cloud what the true implementation should be and what the developers should be aiming for.

I never said there was prone in PS1, if that's what you're implying. I worded that to mean if there was prone in PS2. But as I said earlier, why should I be forced to be slow and rolling around on the ground just to get a good shot lined up? Again, promotes camping because you are not mobile on the ground. Just give crouching the accuracy bonus and that already speeds up gameplay.

To me it sounded like you had played BF games too much and what you want is a better BF game and are assuming that any prone implementation has to follow older BF prone implementations or be taken out completely. It's a very narrow way to look at gameplay implementations.

No, it's a matter of personal preference. The entirety of yours and my arguments is completely subjective. I'd love a game that mixed BFBC2 and 2142, however... the fast pace of BC2 due to significantly less campers and the gadgets and setting of 2142... that'd be great...

[Saifoda]

Realism in video games is reason enough not to have it in.

I don't understand your logic. I've spent my time on the real ground and being prone was very much a part of it.

[SKYeXile]

I don't understand your logic. I've spent my time on the real ground and being prone was very much a part of it.

I don't see what realism has to do with video games, if you want realism, don't play a video games.

[Stardouser]

removed

[Sirisian]

You took that much time to reply to me? I don't see why, but I might as well reply back.
http://i.imgur.com/7coCy.gif

Not just BF3. In general, I dislike any prone in any game other than something like ARMA. It slows down gameplay and is almost never used productively, and almost always leads to people camping doorways, hallways, etc. There is no real use to it other than that. Digging down can be done by crouching, there's no need to go prone to defend a point.
You just said there's a reason to crouch. We had games not too long ago where people couldn't crouch at all. Suddenly that then modern FPS tactic became mainstream because people liked the option to use it.

Also you make the assumption it's used for defense. It could very well be used for offense outdoors. I honestly don't see it being useful indoors especially with maxes and grenades being flung through every door.

Honestly if I was playing I probably wouldn't use prone at a defensive point. I'd just crouch behind a piece of cover so I could continue moving. However, if I was outside flanking the enemy (very common in PS1) I'd love to just lie down for some added accuracy and unload on the enemy for headshots from a range. I could crouch, but if I had the choice I'd rather go prone for the lower profile.

I agree with you 100% about when it should be used and when it really shouldn't be used. However if you get killed by a sniper crouching behind a box you might go "oh he's camping using crouching". Personally I don't see the difference if a person is standing, crouch, or prone behind cover and shooting at the enemy. If anything attacking a person using prone you're more often to get headshots since the target isn't strafing. It's a huge disadvantage and choice a player could make.

The TTK between BF3 and PS2 seems nearly identical, maybe a difference of .5 seconds. What do you propose as separate uses for crouch and prone? I honestly cannot think of any. Accuracy is not a good argument because I should not be forced to hit the floor to line up a good shot. Give good aimed accuracy to a crouched stance and there isn't even a reason to think about putting it in.
I wouldn't go by what we saw in the alpha footage as the end TTK. We saw planes hitting tanks with like 5 rockets to destroy them. Also the TTK we saw in many of the videos at more than 15 meters were rather large. In the GDC video we saw players taking shots at each other for a while. Any ranged shot and you'll notice especially with the GDC roof footage where both players go through full clips while shooting and strafing. Imagine if the guy on the roof was prone. He would have gotten hit a lot especially if the other player is aware and actively dodging the rounds.

It's both the trade-off of mobility for accuracy and the lesser profile. Same reason why people crouch. If all the guns had perfect accuracy while standing would there be a reason to crouch? Of course. There's situations where your standing in a place where it's advantageous. You lower your profile by nearly a half. Now prone is another case. In a courtyard with infantry streaming out to defend a base. You might prefer the lower profile when shooting rather than crouching. Basically giving up almost any mobility for 1/4 or less of the normal profile. Would everyone use it? No, but it's open to players that see the moment where those tactics are useful. Just like no one will be forced to crouch all the time. They can walk toward the enemy and aim down the sights if they feel that will work better.

Campers don't sit in the middle of an open area where they can be headshotted or blown up by a grenade. I'm sorry, I don't and never will find camping to be a legitimate tactic. You shouldn't rack up score because you're sitting in a corner mowing people down with your LMG before they knew what hit them. The TTK difference between PS2 and BF3 isn't significant enough to say they'd be able to react before they were killed.
You don't need to be prone to camp then. You're simply projecting a flawed gameplay decision on prone. Crouching as I mentioned before has absolutely no difference in that scenario. Even standing up at that point doesn't make a difference. If the game's TTK is broken to the point players can't react to anything when assaulting a base it will be handled in beta.

If you looked back at the thread you'd notice he only mentioned crouch. The game is not being designed around being able to prone. It simply is not needed. What do you mean the game is hardly designed, anyway? It's extremely far in development. Sure, we have time to make the game better, but putting prone in isn't necessarily "Better".
I mean the interiors lack any cover. In the tower video and tech plant video (I think that was the building) there's nothing inside really for cover meaning only the basic layout was developed so far. Also arclegger mentioned in IRC how trivial it is to move around objects in the map to reposition them. Most of the same cover one might use for prone, like rocks and barrels, are already there for cover.

If you've ever played 64 man CQC on BF3 you'd know how bad of a problem camping is. Let me use Metro as an example... it's seems to be similar to some of they layouts we've seen with all of the stairs and rooms... it's literally impossible to count the amount of people you'll see lined up prone just farming people who attempt to run in any door accessing their side. This would very likely be amplified with the amount of players fighting CQC in PS2... 400 in a base maybe? Oh god, the nightmares...
You do realize we did this in PS1 right in the basement and at every interlink facility? You walked into the basement with 100 TR maxes lines around the door or people behind crates gunning anyone that walked through the door. It is absolutely no different than in BF3 in metro when people crouched behind the wooden paper pallet things. You really don't need prone to camp and it doesn't even make it easier in most cases. With prone most of the time you leave your whole body exposed so someone rushing in at close range will get an easy kill. That and defending is a whole different ballgame in Planetside 2. The capture points are fairly open. The ones we saw in the videos were in buildings with two open doors. Doesn't look all that camper friendly. Especially the huge open stairs in some of the buildings.

I never said there was prone in PS1, if that's what you're implying. I worded that to mean if there was prone in PS2. But as I said earlier, why should I be forced to be slow and rolling around on the ground just to get a good shot lined up? Again, promotes camping because you are not mobile on the ground. Just give crouching the accuracy bonus and that already speeds up gameplay.
I wasn't implying that. You said "crouch now fills the role prone did" which is an odd statement to make. Well odder than "PS2's terrain [...] was designed with crouch only gameplay in mind." which I totally ignored because it make no sense to me how terrain is designed for only crouch. It's identical to real world terrain pretty much.

You wouldn't be forced to be "rolling around on the ground just to get a good shot lined up". If you're shooting insanely far distances with a normal rifle and want the added accuracy go for it. For close range camping in a base you might as well just crouch with ADS. Chances are it's much easier and you can still strafe to dodge rounds as people run into the room.

No, it's a matter of personal preference. The entirety of yours and my arguments is completely subjective. I'd love a game that mixed BFBC2 and 2142, however... the fast pace of BC2 due to significantly less campers and the gadgets and setting of 2142... that'd be great...
I might be subjective by saying with the right TTK prone can be a useful choice for players along with crouching, but I'm trying to explain why as objectively as possible.

BF2142 prone worked extremely well. I used prone probably all the time time in that game with the engineer shield and turret. Throwing down that shield as I get hit by an enemy and sitting behind it was one of the best experiences I had in a game since with the game's relatively high TTK it allowed players to make choices that one normally wouldn't find in other FPS games. I can't remember of any instances where prone was overly powerful either. (Turret and shield at the same time was overpowered though :lol:). Also we're looking at situations where players hopefully aren't mowing down tons of people in a row. If the game is like that then we'll need to solve it during beta since camping will be an unavoidable frustration if it's too common.

[IHateMMOs]

No prone, not only does is it annoying when you're in a firefight and your opponent decides to go prone becoming harder to hit, but also, going prone may cause you to clip out of the map in some corner since you flat on the ground. Prone should not be in Planetside 2 under any circumstances. Only dampens the gameplay.

[fishirboy]

Please watch this video BF3 is the topic but this game is NOT REALISTIC but it gives good points why prone is good and how you "get around people that are prone"

Battlefield 3 Prone Cry Babies - YouTube


People freak out when some one said prone and then they just receive hate. They say that it's to hard to kill the person or that prone is op... so your telling me that my legs can't bend and lay down, and now if I fall I can't get up? Also people say that dolphin dives are evil and should never happen! Well first off no there not bad and should be there because this is supposed to be strategic i thought. I as a player should be able to dive out of the way of oncoming bullets and be able to do a matrix dive into a hall way and shoot some one around the corner. Also I can hide behind smaller cover easily and that prevents me from dieing! This is not evil, or bad, or will destroy the game, it will make it so you can have a better way to support and hide from the enemy.

1. What I have gathered from people and what they say 2. then i say my reason why it's wrong in my own opinion:

No. It doesn't. PS1 didn't need prone.

You guys never had prone and does not mean you did not need it, Just that the game worked fine with out it. That does not mean you did not need it, prone makes you harder to hit and makes people mad because they think that they should have that kill. It helps with not dieing from a long distance sniper rifle. Go watch some arma2 videos and see the major differences between prone and a crouch.

If your signature is bigger than your post you need to reconsider your priorities.

Not having prone discourages camping-style gameplay. Planetside has always been a more aggressive sort of shooter than something like BF3, and this is one area I don't mind them keeping the same.

Actually I have to discourage with this stance because no, it does not discourage camping, it makes it harder to camp but does not discourage it. also this is a tactical game camping is vital to killing more men then the other team helping your team. camping is also a stupid word. If your in the army you know that sniping from a high spot and killing targets saves lives and that is what prone will help do.

I hate prone. I've found little reason to use anything but it 90% of the time in BF3.

What? why do you hate it then if you use it? Like many have said "if you don't like it, don't do it"

I will also laugh if they added prone...how will you use your minigun while prone? will it be sitting on the ground? HAHA

There is no why that devs would do this in the first place, and some guns would ether not allow you to crouch, wait untell you put that gun away to crouch or put that gun away when you do crouch.

This is not BF3/COD, no prone please.

Of corce this is not don't cry, nor is it any other FPS that has prone like, well lest say i could name a lot. So pritty much what your saying is that if a game has prone its a BF3/COD right away? Interesting :huh:

PAGE 2!!!

PlanetSide has never been realistic. I don't know where you got that idea.

Soooo.... your saying prone should not be there because it's realistic? So we should take out walking, tanks, running, crouching, airplains, and well were at it the floor can go to!

Okay, but these need to be put in too:

-Damage taken while prone is doubled.

-Because of the extreme surface contact with the ground, infiltrators can only get to about 50% stealth maximum, even with no weapon drawn.

-Unable to use AV weapons.

-Unable to throw grenades more than 15 meters.

-Able to be trampled by friendlies and enemies, causing damage and inflicting grief on any trampling friendlies.

-Takes 1 second to get to crouching from prone. Certs can reduce that to half a second.

AV, takes 1 second to get down are fine ideas but the rest have problems. You should never take 2 times damage from going prone, the reason for it is to AVOID damage. It makes the enemy have to aim strait, and because you cant hit the bride side of a drop ship does not mean you need to have a handy-cap. I think i can through grenades a little farther then that when on the ground. Also for the infiltrators thing so, let if you have feet, that brings your stealth down to 90%?

Yay for another feature that isn't need

/sarcasm

Prone never works proper in any game, and tends to lead to similar frustrations as bunnyhopping does.

Actually no your wrong with that one, if you see some arma 2 videos then that is the greatest pron I have ever seen, you can eather run and pron or slowly get prone, you cant just press up to see some one on the top of a building next to you (you would need your spine gone to do that haha) and being able to make yourself smaller in a battle field is needed.


In a game with this scale I feel like more things could go wrong than right if prone was added. The last thing I want is to see hundreds of people laying down in a base fight cluttering up the place.

So people in Battle field just lay down when they capture a spawn point and guard it, usually what I see is people running around and moving to find the next kill. Prone wont make people be hiding ****** and you dont need to be afraid grasshopper haha.

Side Note: LOVE THIS POST!!!


Camping is a legitimate tactic, and to support the removal of a feature based on discouraging legitimate gameplay or the inclusion of features that artificially render a legitimate gameplay tactic pointless is the same as forcing others to play the way YOU like.

People who hate camping want you to duel them on the main street at high noon. That's not what a wargame is all about.


Hell no. Cloaking snipers with prone? And 200+meter tall cliffs to hide on? Worse than BF3's campers...

If your afraid of that then stay indoors haha, that is what the heat sensor scope if for! killing the sniper will be much easier. This game is "Team Based" for a reason.


I am thoroughly in the gamist camp when it comes to Planetside. So no, realism is not something I'm after (I've been surprised by threads indicating that gunners can be headshotted out of MANA turrets; I assumed they'd become part of the turret).

Prone looks terrible on the miniature tabletop and it looks equally bad in a game. Toons should be running and gunning, not standing still.

AHEM! sir! Run and gun supposes at halo chief tactic. Not a team tactic that we have been hearing from the devs. This game is better played with a team and going rouge is supposed to get you killed so the gun and run will kill you I think. People are so spoiled with fast, fast, fast all the time, they don't think, wait, think this through, and then slowly aprotch this. Its like the army, you see them running in like there high?

Can't prone in a cockpit or gunner seat. I have no use for this. And on that note, being prone isn't going to save you from the myriad of vehicles in this game with explosive weapons.

Ya your right about the vehicular thing but, I think that your got this backwards, this is a prone thing for infantry fights not giant metal scrap you RT and NC have. Ducking from a bullet and staying hidden will help you stay alive that is what prone is used for, so that you can get behind cover were cover is not provided when your crouching.

Please no prone. The last thing we need is snipers laying down the entire game..look at battlefield 3..thats all they do

watch this: Battlefield 3 Prone Cry Babies - YouTube
the game is not relistic, but that means if we want 0 realism or have very little then lets take out running, jumping, and crouching.

Really Hamma? Apart from maybe kwiuiqck kniefves this is the thing that most obviously doesn't need beta testing to know whether it's bad.

It's bad, do not even consider, and ban anyone who supports it from the forums.

Actualy no it's not, if the majority of you hate it when beta come out and they just add it in for a week and it does not make things worce (witch won't happen) and makes things better then why are you companing? Big guy cant spray and pray no more??? :rofl:


This is my opinion on the haters that are afraid that it will kill the game if it comes in to the game. easy way to not die from a sniper is to take another way around, get in a party and have some one with a heart beat sensor or body heat sensor. This game has more then 1000 players playing on it because your supposed to be in groups, stop being terrified by snipers in cloke because you cant hit them. that is the whole point of them being hidden. and what is the difference of having some one in cloke crouching or prone you still see the fire coming from there and just go around and kill them. Hate on me all you want for ether repeating others but I want my opinion on prone and that if it was in gaming at the same time as crouching you guys would not be complaining. It would be like having no crouch and then having it for the first time in PS2, you would all go crazy! :lol: :love: :rolleyes: :D

[fishirboy]

No prone, not only does is it annoying when you're in a firefight and your opponent decides to go prone becoming harder to hit, but also, going prone may cause you to clip out of the map in some corner since you flat on the ground. Prone should not be in Planetside 2 under any circumstances. Only dampens the gameplay.

GOING PRONE IS SUPPOSED TO MAKE YOU HARDER TO HIT!!! THAT IS THE WHOLE POINT! the clipping is just bugs that needs to be fixed

[Stew]

No. It doesn't. PS1 didn't need prone.

this isnt a copy and paste of ps1 this is what i always fear about hardcore fans of a game who almost never goes out there to play another game ive been playing Ps1 for years but stop playing it since the gameplay wasent suitable anymore for me !

Planetside 2 and planetside 1 gameplay wise are 2 different game

planetside 2 gameplay wise is now a more like BF3 game or MAG game or COD game and all those game feature prone

BFBC battlefield bad company was a Pain in the ass because of the No prone stuff as a infantry you werent able to use the terrain properly to cover urself if you take cover behind a crate sometime ur head is expose and boom you die whiout a chance to manage to survive because you dont have the proper tool to do so !


MY ONLY concern about all this is how it can turn with infiltrator cloak

but u can also implement a mechanics where if a infiltrator go prone he loose is Cloak BE creative guys

SO Infiltrator will not ruin the feature Infiltrator prone = No cloak possible

infiltrator have to be croutch or stand position to be able to use their cloak is thats sound good ?

[Zulthus]

Lots of words

http://i3.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/007/423/untitle.JPG

[fishirboy]

To all of you that say prone will "slow down game play" how do you know? Does prone slow down game play in COD?????? NOPE haha, you guys just arn't giving that a chance. The main point of prone is to make your body harder to hit, so all of you say its to hard try it! BF3 is not slowed down by pron eater, NOT one game has ever been slowed down by this development. I wont you to name one!!!

[fishirboy]

http://i3.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/007/423/untitle.JPG

yes haha

[Stew]

Please read all the posts before commenting. I mentioned I didn't want to reiterate points over. I was just compiling a list of main complaints by people. Also your fascination with BF3 was evident in your posts comparing a possible prone implementation to BF3 and other games. You're fixated on that implementation and are blinded to other ones. (Not the only person. I remember the words "dolphin diving" coming up a few times so I jotted it down as something people didn't want).

The implementation I defined would fit perfectly into Planetside 2 allowing more complex gameplay. The biggest problem in BF3 wasn't the implementation directly. It was the TTK that revolved around it which made it so effective. .



this game is mostly based on a BF3 and MAG style gameplay mechanics and prone isnt a problem in those game (( drop shot )) always fails in those game at least 99 % of the time prone is more a tactical way to manage to use the terrain to get decent cover for infantry while getting shot from nowhere ! its help to get situational awarness !

I dont know whats your talking about TTK in bf3 is fine but the Headshot hitbox and prone hitbox tend to be inconsistent their is the BF problems

MAG in other hand have a damned good hit detection for prone target so this is never a issue

And for Cloakers its easy to fix the problem cloaker who go prone = desactivate the cloak and cant be reativate until he goes crouch or stand up !

simple as that

BFBC 2 suck in many point due to the lack of prone its playable but remoove all the freedoms to be able to use little hil rocks etc.. as a cover in some situations and since planetside have a lots of plains terrain and desert with few little cover i think prone could be welcome if its well done

so i will say Wait to test it out in the beta and will see !

[Stew]

To all of you that say prone will "slow down game play" how do you know? Does prone slow down game play in COD?????? NOPE haha, you guys just arn't giving that a chance. The main point of prone is to make your body harder to hit, so all of you say its to hard try it! BF3 is not slowed down by pron eater, NOT one game has ever been slowed down by this development. I wont you to name one!!!

Agree their is is is the gameplay look slowing down because i can go prone it just give me the cover i need in some situation

Snipers are jerks - YouTube

[Algo]

90% of the arguments i read for prone boil down to "i want to hide".

I'd rather stand and take fire

[fishirboy]

Snipers are jerks - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3L04OgHdL0&list=UUuTiThRSnCLeSxGWCflI93w&index=6&feature=plcp)

what language is that haha :lol:

[fod]

no prone

only in very specific games does prone work well - heck im not even sure if i like it in bf3 as bfbc2 was awesome without prone

either way i think planetside is more of a noprone game

[Retaliation]

To all of you that say prone will "slow down game play" how do you know? Does prone slow down game play in COD?????? NOPE haha, you guys just arn't giving that a chance. The main point of prone is to make your body harder to hit, so all of you say its to hard try it! BF3 is not slowed down by pron eater, NOT one game has ever been slowed down by this development. I wont you to name one!!!

It's actually pretty obvious it will slow down gameplay. It's a posture that favors staying still over movement. Since you can't advance, it's pretty much only used when the fighting lines are stable or while defending. It's just one more advantage to defenders, and if the balance between attacking/defending is off just a bit it leads to chaos/stagnation.

Since the devs are designing the game based off no prone, it's likely that adding prone could push it over to stagnation. Stagnation is the real reason camping is hated. Every fight just results in being more of the same.

As for games slowed down by having mechanics that favor standing still: WoT.

[Sirisian]

Question is have you ever play battlefield if yes are you readdy to come and proove me whats you said ?
Woah friendly fire. We both support prone and understand it'll work. :p Yes, I've played all the BF games. I wasn't really saying prone was a huge problem. Was just saying BF3's TTK made prone more effective than it would necessarily be in Planetside 2's gameplay. I just played during BF3 beta and the TTK was very low. Going prone in a hallway in metro for instance allowed me to rack up killed quickly since other players had no time to react since I'd just put my gun at head level.

However, as I mentioned before BF2142's TTK was higher which effectively balanced prone and put it on par as another choice for cover.

90% of the arguments i read for prone boil down to "i want to hide".

I'd rather stand and take fire
Wait you don't like to crouch in games? The game isn't that arcadey. :lol:

[Stew]

It's actually pretty obvious it will slow down gameplay. It's a posture that favors staying still over movement. Since you can't advance, it's pretty much only used when the fighting lines are stable or while defending. It's just one more advantage to defenders, and if the balance between attacking/defending is off just a bit it leads to chaos/stagnation.

Since the devs are designing the game based off no prone, it's likely that adding prone could push it over to stagnation. Stagnation is the real reason camping is hated. Every fight just results in being more of the same.

As for games slowed down by having mechanics that favor standing still: WoT.

lol camping is part of a mentality the lack of skills and the fear to die look at my Bf video up here it show up many campers in stand up position ;)

[Stardouser]

Woah friendly fire. We both support prone and understand it'll work. :p Yes, I've played all the BF games. I wasn't really saying prone was a huge problem. Was just saying BF3's TTK made prone more effective than it would necessarily in Planetside 2's gameplay. I just played during BF3 beta and the TTK was very low. Going prone in a hallway in metro for instance allowed me to rack up killed quickly since other players had no time to react since I'd just put my gun at head level.

However, as I mentioned before BF2142's TTK was higher which effectively balanced prone and put it on par as another choice for cover.

One thing about BF3's prone, it's actually quite restricted. It's slow to spin around, if you need to stand up, especially while aiming AT weapons, it interrupts your aim for a second or two while you go to your knee and then stand, and if someone gets behind you, you're knife-bait.

And frankly, it doesn't even need to be half that restrictive to be just fine.

Also, prone in my opinion does not give you an advantage in camping corners; crouch is actually better(doubly so if prone doesn't exist, since crouch would then become the most accurate stance) because you retain mobility. Claims of "OMG someone shouldn't be able to get 20 kills in a row by proning in a hallway around the corner" are massive massive embellishments, you kill one guy like that and the next guy is going to throw grenades in; because for one thing, the next guy is likely to be a squadmate of the first communicating in voice chat.

It's actually pretty obvious it will slow down gameplay. It's a posture that favors staying still over movement. Since you can't advance, it's pretty much only used when the fighting lines are stable or while defending. It's just one more advantage to defenders, and if the balance between attacking/defending is off just a bit it leads to chaos/stagnation.

Since the devs are designing the game based off no prone, it's likely that adding prone could push it over to stagnation. Stagnation is the real reason camping is hated. Every fight just results in being more of the same.

As for games slowed down by having mechanics that favor standing still: WoT.

No, it won't, long runbacks from Galaxies, long cooldowns on squad spawning, and low TTK, will all accomplish that. Prone will do very very little or even nothing at all to slow down gameplay. People who would use prone for staying still will still use crouch.

Also, it's ironic. In the squad spawn argument people are complaining that if squad spawning isn't nerfed to hell, defenders will be too weak. Yet, despite the fact that defenders will have a TON of crouch height cover available to them, prone will overpower defenders? There's a contradiction in one of these arguments or the other.

Lastly, and importantly, SOE has specifically stated that prone is under consideration. Does anyone have ANY proof that SOE has designed the game up to this point based on no prone or is that just an assumption based on the fact that prone isn't currently in?

[Stew]

Woah friendly fire. We both support prone and understand it'll work. :p Yes, I've played all the BF games. I wasn't really saying prone was a huge problem. Was just saying BF3's TTK made prone more effective than it would necessarily in Planetside 2's gameplay. I just played during BF3 beta and the TTK was very low. Going prone in a hallway in metro for instance allowed me to rack up killed quickly since other players had no time to react since I'd just put my gun at head level.

However, as I mentioned before BF2142's TTK was higher which effectively balanced prone and put it on par as another choice for cover.


Wait you don't like to crouch in games? The game isn't that arcadey. This isn't Global Agenda :lol:

MAG on ps3 as solve the prone stuff making the Hitbox for headshot and the hitdetection very strong while someone is in prone so the prone was not use as a silly dropshot thing but mainly as situational way to use terrain as a cover in some really hard battle or to avoid been kill by snipers campers using the terrain as a cover to reach a decent range to take them out

planetside isnt just based figth their is plently of plain terrain with few hill and rocks etc.. whiout prone these kind of battlefield will be true nightmare for infantry soldiers so it will always force into vehicules play in 70 % of the map this is where is my concern about No prone

[james]

No prone, with maps so huge prone does not work well. In bf3 despite its usefulness at times it does nothing but slow down gameplay and encourage a more campy style of play.

[mynameismud]

ps1 vet. I'm not gonna try to convince anyone something they like is bad, if you like prone, more power to you. If you don't that is cool too.

But quite frankly if prone is in this game then I am not. That is all.

[Stew]

ps1 vet. I'm not gonna try to convince anyone something they like is bad, if you like prone, more power to you. If you don't that is cool too.

But quite frankly if prone is in this game then I am not. That is all.

sounds like . . . . . .

[Stew]

ps1 vet. I'm not gonna try to convince anyone something they like is bad, if you like prone, more power to you. If you don't that is cool too.

But quite frankly if prone is in this game then I am not. That is all.

I have a question this is your first post and your so deeply agains prone its the first tread you jump into ?

iam just curious ?

[Khrusky]

I support having prone in this game.

Much like one-shot-kills, it forces the player to think before they get into a fight (i.e. actual tactics), rather than making the game about simplistic motor skills.

[Revanmug]

what language is that haha :lol:

french. It sounds soo awful. An abomination

[fishirboy]

MY FINAL POST ON THIS THREAD UNTIL BETA



Wait until beta, we will all agree then. We really just cant assume that it will hurt or better the game until then so both sides stop saying that it will, will, will, no one knows yet. so lets just play nice until then and the TR and NC can go die in a hole!!!

[Zulthus]

I support having prone in this game.

Much like one-shot-kills, it forces the player to think before they get into a fight (i.e. actual tactics), rather than making the game about simplistic motor skills.

What does prone have to do with thinking about tactics? I mean, if you consider camping a tactic...

[mynameismud]

I have a question this is your first post and your so deeply agains prone its the first tread you jump into ?

iam just curious ?

I speak from time to time, this isnt my first post, I just read more than I speak. I try not to say something less I feel I need to say it. Like I said I am not here to argue about a feature. I am just saying I wont play if it's in. I do not expect my leaving to change anything nor would I want it to, I am not selfish.

I just simply have no interest in this game if prone is in, and that is my right to think and talk about, just like I respect other people's right to voice their thoughts on them liking prone.

[Stardouser]

In many cases, what people call camping is simply defending a fixed point. Or if an attacking sniper is camping, it's called providing fire support for others who will rush in at the capture point. So if the camping haters had their way, no one would be allowed to stay in the same point? Or to put it another way, the person with the prepared defensive position is actually going to be disavantaged compared to the attacker? Really? Is this what people are arguing for? I'm sorry to say but this is not a deathmatch game where people should be upset about the guy on the other team with 20 kills and 3 deaths because he's sticking to prepared positions.

[Stew]

What does prone have to do with thinking about tactics? I mean, if you consider camping a tactic...

Prone as nothing to do with camping people who camp will camp tand up in a tower will camp in a window with no prone will camp in a building will camp crouch in a room corner will camp anywhere with or whiout prone

prone do not make a camper like game prone give you more option to get a quick cover and allow you to get a terrain cover when ur outnumber by the ennemi and smartly find the way to take them out and use the terrai rocks hill crates etc... and also prone have its - while you prone u cant strafe u cant moove quickly u cant turn in a circle around your target ur a almost non mooving targer and its dangerous as well but for situational purpose its a good and viable option


Campers will be campers no matter whats are the game mechanics theyre is NO prone in team fortress or in planetside 1 and ive seen Legions of corners campers whindows campers rooftop campers in all those games ;)

SO all this is so unfair and irrevelant !

Prone do not = camping

[Revanmug]

What does prone have to do with thinking about tactics? I mean, if you consider camping a tactic...

I don't care too much if prone is in or not but this quote is AWESOME

/facepalm...

You do realise most kind of defense or even attack IS camping? Are we back to the old retard mentality of : "Real men don't fight with advantages! They stand in front the enemy and eat what is thrown at them... Like men!"

Get another argument that doesn't invalidate most of the gameplay if you don't like prone.

[LPRaver]

I'm not sure if this has been said but after reading the first 12 pages my brain was starting to hurt.

Prone or no prone we have to be careful about saying well it should or shouldn't because it was in "that" game. We are not playing "that" game and bb trying to make every game the same we end up with these series that the core gamers hate. COD has lost a ton of support because it is the same thing over and over. Just because mechanics worked in one game doesn't mean it will work in another. There is sniping in Tribes and yet no crouch... works fine people move on.

Why dont we let Planetside 2 be Planetside 2 and enjoy it the way the developers meant for it to be enjoyed. They have a lot more to lose if the game isn't amazing than we do I think they are looking out for what is best for all gamers and not just a specific group.

[Zulthus]

I don't care too much if prone is in or not but this quote is AWESOME

/facepalm...

You do realise most kind of defense or even attack IS camping? Are we back to the old retard mentality of : "Real men don't fight with advantages! They stand in front the enemy and eat what is thrown at them... Like men!"

Get another argument that doesn't invalidate most of the gameplay if you don't like prone.

Camping is why games are so damned boring. We actually want people to move around (right, GOD FORBID you have to get off your stomach) not just lie somewhere spamming people as they come into a door because they can't see him.

[Dairian]

Prone is the last thing this game needs. MORE CAMPERS PLEASE!

I am sure they said they were going to a faster pace of game play.

[Khrusky]

What does prone have to do with thinking about tactics? I mean, if you consider camping a tactic...

It's called area denial. Perfectly valid tactic. Exactly the same as the mines that the engineer already has.

The tactics come from the fact that to counter it you have to think ahead rather than just rush blindly into open ground where an enemy can draw a bead on you.

Likewise, the tactics of the area denial is trying to get a spot which has exactly the right amount of sightlines. Too many and you're also a big target, too few and you're ineffective.

The main weakness of this is tunnel vision. As a player cannot effectively deny everything within sigh they have to pick one area, which they then must constantly focus on to effectively deny it.

There are numerous situation-specific ways to deal with people who are dug in. Prone doesn't change that.

[Knightwyvern]

If we have an effective and worthwhile crouch, I'm fine with no prone.

[Stew]

I'm not sure if this has been said but after reading the first 12 pages my brain was starting to hurt.

Prone or no prone we have to be careful about saying well it should or shouldn't because it was in "that" game. We are not playing "that" game and bb trying to make every game the same we end up with these series that the core gamers hate. COD has lost a ton of support because it is the same thing over and over. Just because mechanics worked in one game doesn't mean it will work in another. There is sniping in Tribes and yet no crouch... works fine people move on.

Why dont we let Planetside 2 be Planetside 2 and enjoy it the way the developers meant for it to be enjoyed. They have a lot more to lose if the game isn't amazing than we do I think they are looking out for what is best for all gamers and not just a specific group.

In fact if core ps1 gamers expect ps2 to be anywhere near planetside 1 they will hate the game

the concept is the same factions etc.. the scales is the same and even more like almost 10 time bigger the collor sheme are the same the open wold aspect and domination over territory goal is the same

But a lots of details have change the gameplay machanics is nowhere near ps1 and for the good the gameplay mechanics of ps1 was not thats good even for a 2003 game

The facts is planetside 2 will be bigger and better and will feature better game mechanics guns balistic to fit the new standard in modern fps and its a good thing if the (( core )) gamer do not like it they must have to stick on COD franchise this is the copy and past franchise whats you can expect from COD 4 cod5 cod6 cod7cod8 will all be the same same mechanics same controles same sounds same everythings almost

But i know many planetside 1 players arent some butthurt who want planetside2 to be a copy and past of ps1

in my opinion planetside 2 must keep a certain lever or (( arcade gameplay and fast pace combat )) but also must have great situational mechanics thats allow you to have more freedom of choice and have better suitable overall caracter moovements and mechanics

and i think prone could be one of them

ive play tons of game whiout prone and with prone but in a game like planetside when i look at the overall map i can see prone as a infantry could be really usefull not to camp but to protect uself temporary in some delicate situation thats you enconter in thats kind of game

planetside 2 isnt planetside 1 its the evolution of planetside !

[duomaxwl]

If we have an effective and worthwhile crouch, I'm fine with no prone.

^^^
They don't have prone in yet, the poll shows the majority do not want it. You can argue it all you want, but chances are slim that it will be implemented.

[TheInferno]

Yes, stew, you've said it multiple times before.

However, just as something being in Planetside doesn't mean it should be in Planetside 2, just because something is in multiple other shooters doesn't mean it needs to be in Planetside 2.

Honestly, I think most of the points have been debated to death, so I won't even bother voicing my opinion either way. Someone has probably said it better than I ever could, so I'll just stick my vote in the poll and be on my way. After all, I have to check for a beta invite. :cool:

[Stew]

french. It sounds soo awful. An abomination

please be civilized been raciste and saying such thing about a languages or people do not have a place in forums this isnt contructive and it juts childish and really bad

every people are free to speak the languages they want wiout been juge by people like you i would like to see you to stop saying such thing in the near futur please thanks !

A little respect for others culture and language will not hurt you

[fishirboy]

It's called area denial. Perfectly valid tactic. Exactly the same as the mines that the engineer already has.

The tactics come from the fact that to counter it you have to think ahead rather than just rush blindly into open ground where an enemy can draw a bead on you.

Likewise, the tactics of the area denial is trying to get a spot which has exactly the right amount of sightlines. Too many and you're also a big target, too few and you're ineffective.

The main weakness of this is tunnel vision. As a player cannot effectively deny everything within sigh they have to pick one area, which they then must constantly focus on to effectively deny it.

There are numerous situation-specific ways to deal with people who are dug in. Prone doesn't change that.

best quote ever to getting into a sniping position, people think camping is a bad thing, its used in real life people every one has there own pace people do better when there able to fight from a far away advantage and I find it funny how people hate snipers because they camp... do you even know what a sniper is? Not quick scope you flipping moron. In real life (this game is not i know) you have to find a place to "camp" that is the whole point of snipers you cant use them in close quarters. Man I wish that it took like 5 seconds to look into scope then people would feel how a real sniper does his work. DOWN WITH QUICK SCOPING!


Also words of advice, if you get killed by a sniper by going into an aria why not just go around?! Amazing i know! I am just a guineas with a brain.

[fishirboy]

Hay i just thought of something that you stupid people that hate prone cant realy counter. If prone if so bad then why use it??? Like many people before me "If you don't like it don't do it!" and if they added it to the game how long would it take for you to use it, the more people use it the better it is to have in game. Lets take guns for example, a bad gun would never be used if it's not as good as this other gun next to it, or it would be used less then the other gun next to it. That is kind of the way prone, crouch and standing work. You bring a new gun to the table and every one freaks out because they don't know how good it is or how bad it is, what is going to bring???

[LPRaver]

In fact if core ps1 gamers expect ps2 to be anywhere near planetside 1 they will hate the game


You make a very valid point and I totally agree. I felt like my response was not leaning for or against prone. However I do think you misunderstood me slightly. I am not comparing this with the first game. (Though I do believe it is a fair comparison) I was simply trying to make people think about why they want something in the game or not in the game based on "this" games mechanics not some other game like COD or BF3.

I just dont want PC games to get stuck in the same slump that console games have gotten themselves into and want to encourage a friendly discussion about why it should or should not be in the game based on what makes it good for "this" game or why it hurts it.

[TheInferno]

Fishir, do you really have to insult the people who disagree with you?

[Elude]

Prone isn't bad it's just redundant.

[duomaxwl]

if you get killed by a sniper by going into an aria

You should be killing the enemy, not singing on the battlefield, soldier!

Hay i just thought of something that you stupid people that hate prone cant realy counter.

Yes, because our different in opinion must be a reflection upon our intelligence. :rolleyes:

[Algo]

Hay i just thought of something that you stupid people that hate prone cant realy counter.

You're so cunning.
People hate prone because it's boring as fuck.

[Stew]

^^^
They don't have prone in yet, the poll shows the majority do not want it. You can argue it all you want, but chances are slim that it will be implemented.

This pool to me means nothing since its a (( secret pool )) so you cant see if their is accont multiplyer ive sen a guy who reply and was deeply agains prone but has 0 post before this one kinda strange and make me ask one question

is this post is really representative and also make me think Why not waiting for a Prone in build betatest to figure out if it work ?

so for me secret pool are null

[LPRaver]

Hay i just thought of something that you stupid people that hate prone cant realy counter. If prone if so bad then why use it??? Like many people before me "If you don't like it don't do it!" and if they added it to the game how long would it take for you to use it, the more people use it the better it is to have in game. Lets take guns for example, a bad gun would never be used if it's not as good as this other gun next to it, or it would be used less then the other gun next to it. That is kind of the way prone, crouch and standing work. You bring a new gun to the table and every one freaks out because they don't know how good it is or how bad it is, what is going to bring???
Lets not call people stupid based on opinions. I think the logical counter to your statement though is that people do not want it in the game because they do not want to use it. They do not want anyone to be able to use it. You have a good point about the guns but im not so sure it applies for some of the complaints against prone. Diving and shooting for instance is in some games with prone. Even if I refuse to use the prone mechanic I am still effected by those who choose to use this mechanic. Where as if I do not use a gun and I get killed by it we all still have guns.... I hope that makes sense.

[fishirboy]

Fishir, do you really have to insult the people who disagree with you?

sorry if i do its just that some people have no respect of new things coming to the table they say that what ever worked in PS1 is fine we don't need any thing like PRONE in the game! It would bring the disaster to us all even though the game is not out yet and we have never even tried it! Its not like the devs could take it out if it was bad! haha (I am not really up to par, per say with my social skills and need to work on not hurting my opponents with words that are on the screen, i never see words as hurt full and don't care about them that is why I am bad at not hurting people online)

[duomaxwl]

This pool to me means nothing since its a (( secret pool )) so you cant see if their is accont multiplyer ive sen a guy who reply and was deeply agains prone but has 0 post before this one kinda strange and make me ask one question

is this post is really representative and also make me think Why not waiting for a Prone in build betatest to figure out if it work ?

so for me secret pool are null

I could care less if you think the poll is null. It isn't. Maybe the guy is so against prone that he decided to register to voice his opinion? Wouldn't be the first time this happens on PSU.

[TheInferno]

Stew, do you honestly think there are really that many people who would do something like that? You might as well throw out every poll ever done in an online forum.

It's also disrespectful. You're basically saying "I have to be right! There's no way that this many people disagree with me, therefore people have to be bending the rules!" Sheesh.

[fishirboy]

Lets not call people stupid based on opinions. I think the logical counter to your statement though is that people do not want it in the game because they do not want to use it. They do not want anyone to be able to use it. You have a good point about the guns but im not so sure it applies for some of the complaints against prone. Diving and shooting for instance is in some games with prone. Even if I refuse to use the prone mechanic I am still effected by those who choose to use this mechanic. Where as if I do not use a gun and I get killed by it we all still have guns.... I hope that makes sense.

yep veiled point, as there are cons but using this give the opponent the edge that is the whole point, making them a smaller target with out going beyond the limits of actually making them smaller

[duomaxwl]

sorry if i do its just that some people have no respect of new things coming to the table they say that what ever worked in PS1 is fine we don't need any thing like PRONE in the game! It would bring the disaster to us all even though the game is not out yet and we have never even tried it!

Most of us do not have issues with new things coming to the table. Have you seen how different Planetside 2 is from Planetside 1? Sure, a lot of us nitpick, but if we weren't open about the changes, we'd have moved on. Most of us have played games with prone, and the majority of those who voted do not want it in PS2. Just move on.

[Malorn]

This is one of those threads/polls that really stuns me in a good way. I'm surprised there's so many people who understand that prone is absolutely terrible, unnecessary, and bad for the game.

I hope it is never added. Game doesn't need it and far better off without it.

[Stew]

I could care less if you think the poll is null. It isn't. Maybe the guy is so against prone that he decided to register to voice his opinion? Wouldn't be the first time this happens on PSU.

nah the facts is people who are deeply agains a feature are mostlikely going to (( cheat )) the result of the poll and for me secret poll means nothing since we cant veryfied if the response are valid and not from (( spamming)) accont its pretty easy to make like 10 accont and vote 10 time agains something

my experience on forums proove me iam rigth ive seen this so manytime lol

ive made a NON secret pools and ive seen so many unic accont getting in this is simply Not fair and not representative

and also No ones can say if the prone mechanics will work well or not

we have to wait for the beta and having a build thats feature prone to figure out if ot work well or not

saying no or yes is premature

ill say prone could be good if its well done

a big yes or a hell no dont make sens at the momment

[LPRaver]

yep veiled point, as there are cons but using this give the opponent the edge that is the whole point, making them a smaller target with out going beyond the limits of actually making them smaller

I get the edge being important. I think what it comes down to is it would actually work. If you are jumping and hitting the ground you could not head shot someone which causes frustration to players. I game all the time and I hate getting frustrated at something not because it is hard but because it seems ridiculous. I think that is where people are coming from. They would rather do without a mechanic that could add to the game to avoid the frustrations they have found in other games with the mechanic being abused.

[fishirboy]

nah the facts is people who are deeply agains a feature are mostlikely going to (( cheat )) the result of the poll and for me secret poll means nothing since we cant veryfied if the response are valid and not from (( spamming)) accont its pretty easy to make like 10 accont and vote 10 time agains something

my experience on forums proove me iam rigth ive seen this so manytime lol

ive made a NON secret pools and ive seen so many unic accont getting in this is simply Not fair and not representative

and also No ones can say if the prone mechanics will work well or not

we have to wait for the beta and having a build thats feature prone to figure out if ot work well or not

saying no or yes is premature

ill say prone could be good if its well done

a big yes or a hell no dont make sens at the momment


WOW hold on there tiger, just settle down. we need to wait for beta and try and get the devs attention about this and ask if they could at least try and add some lame images for prone so that we could at least test it then will see.

[duomaxwl]

nah the facts is people who are deeply agains a feature are mostlikely going to (( cheat )) the result of the poll and for me secret poll means nothing since we cant veryfied if the response are valid and not from (( spamming)) accont its pretty easy to make like 10 accont and vote 10 time agains something

my experience on forums proove me iam rigth ive seen this so manytime lol

ive made a NON secret pools and ive seen so many unic accont getting in this is simply Not fair and not representative

and also No ones can say if the prone mechanics will work well or not

we have to wait for the beta and having a build thats feature prone to figure out if ot work well or not

saying no or yes is premature

ill say prone could be good if its well done

a big yes or a hell no dont make sens at the momment

What facts? The facts you are pulling out of your ass?
I'd like to think this community is above making spam accounts to vote on something that doesn't even affect whether or not the feature is implemented. Get real dude.

[Algo]

I don't think that calling everyone that does not agree with your ideas cheaters will win the hearth and minds of the people over, you know. By your reasoning, you could have made 20 accounts to fake the results of this poll yourself.

[Tatwi]

Only will lead to stupid, annoying to look at, shit like "dolphin diving", so no.

[mynameismud]

This pool to me means nothing since its a (( secret pool )) so you cant see if their is accont multiplyer ive sen a guy who reply and was deeply agains prone but has 0 post before this one kinda strange and make me ask one question

is this post is really representative and also make me think Why not waiting for a Prone in build betatest to figure out if it work ?

so for me secret pool are null

Dude seriously, cause i watch more than i speak you imply im not a real person but a dupe? Thats fucking low dude and very instulting, you act like just because i dont have a large post count my opinion doesnt matter? Like i said that wasnt my first post and i joined before this topic was even made. I joined this forum in February.

I am a very friendly person who does not seek conflict but this is very insulting. Do i need to post 1000 more times and add a shitty avatar to be taken seriously? My ps1 character was named Bannana, i am a real fucking person. I didnt shit on your thoughts or opinions. Try tellin me im not a fucking person, but some phoney? I tried to be respectful and civil. you sir can go fuck yourself.

This is why i dont talk a lot, cause assholes like you.

[fishirboy]

I get the edge being important. I think what it comes down to is it would actually work. If you are jumping and hitting the ground you could not head shot someone which causes frustration to players. I game all the time and I hate getting frustrated at something not because it is hard but because it seems ridiculous. I think that is where people are coming from. They would rather do without a mechanic that could add to the game to avoid the frustrations they have found in other games with the mechanic being abused.

Yes but they could make it so its slow to get back up and people would not be doing a chicken dance across the rode if they cant fire when trying to get to prone. They could even have it were you had to bring your gun up at that took a second, its all about balance and how they make it. It comes down to the devs actions with this and if they do good people will not steam about it.

[Stew]

I get the edge being important. I think what it comes down to is it would actually work. If you are jumping and hitting the ground you could not head shot someone which causes frustration to players. I game all the time and I hate getting frustrated at something not because it is hard but because it seems ridiculous. I think that is where people are coming from. They would rather do without a mechanic that could add to the game to avoid the frustrations they have found in other games with the mechanic being abused.

agree with this guys the butthurt kinda traumatised players do not make constructive reply !

««This always sound like ive been abuse i dont want to heard any solution to make it better or fix it i simply dont want to see it at all anymore»» :doh::(

this is how its sound like sadly

iam not yet 100 % for or 100% agains i want to see if soe will be able to make it good with great prone hit detection with anti drop shot abusing with anti clock for infiltrator while prone etc..

if all those mechanics work well and are good Prone will ad a lot to the game espcially for infantry lovers

and if those mechanics sucks ill be agains prone implementation

it all depend on how it will be done and if it lead or not to exploits


thats rational and thats make sens i do not speak like a traumatised players

[TheInferno]

Dude seriously, cause i watch more than i speak you imply im not a real person but a dupe? Thats fucking low dude and very instulting, you act like just because i dont have a large post count my opinion doesnt matter? Like i said that wasnt my first post and i joined before this topic was even made.

I am a very friendly person who does not seek conflict but this is very insulting. Do i need to post 1000 more times and add a shitty avatar to be taken seriously? My ps1 character was named Bannana, i am a real fucking person. I didnt shit on your thoughts or opinions. Try tellin me im not a fucking person, but some phoney? I tried to be respectful and civil. you sir can go fuck yourself.

This is why i dont talk a lot, cause assholes like you.

I agree that it was quite insulting, I myself just joined tonight after lurking for a long while, but I think you went a little overboard, there. Take a deep breath, mate.

[LPRaver]

I am a very friendly person... and add a shitty avatar to be taken seriously? My ps1 character was named Bannana
This is why i dont talk a lot, cause assholes like you.

Hey now. Abe Lincoln is my hero. :lol:

[fishirboy]

I agree that it was quite insulting, I myself just joined tonight after lurking for a long while, but I think you went a little overboard, there. Take a deep breath, mate.

dito

[fishirboy]

Hey now. Abe Lincoln is my hero. :lol:

ya, right abe the vampire slayer ha ha ha !! :rofl:

[LPRaver]

Yes but they could make it so its slow to get back up and people would not be doing a chicken dance across the rode if they cant fire when trying to get to prone. They could even have it were you had to bring your gun up at that took a second, its all about balance and how they make it. It comes down to the devs actions with this and if they do good people will not steam about it.
I totally agree. I think some of the ideas people have said to make prone more functional in a game would be great. I love the idea of having an animation to go prone that takes a little time. I also liked the ideas about have a cone of fire and an appropriate angle because lets be fair if you are on your stomach you are not rotating 360 degrees and shooting straight up in the air. I think it could be good in the game and I can see where it could hurt it. Both sides have valid opinions. I just wanted to make an account and post a more middle of the road opinion and see if I could get people to think before being so harsh with one another.

[Taru]

This pool to me means nothing since its a (( secret pool )) so you cant see if their is accont multiplyer ive sen a guy who reply and was deeply agains prone but has 0 post before this one kinda strange and make me ask one question

is this post is really representative and also make me think Why not waiting for a Prone in build betatest to figure out if it work ?

so for me secret pool are null

If developers acted on every community driven poll we would have some very strange games indeed...But, a secret pool sounds like it could be fun!

Back on topic - I think prone doesn't really fit in Planetside, keep it as it is.

[maradine]

Hitting the deck is pretty much part of any internally consistent battlefield narrative. Not being able to drop in the face of fire, especially in the open, is really very confusing to me. It could certainly be implemented to not be stupid and cheesy. I don't understand the resistance.

[mynameismud]

I agree that it was quite insulting, I myself just joined tonight after lurking for a long while, but I think you went a little overboard, there. Take a deep breath, mate.

If he just said that to no one i wouldnt have gotten mad. he called me out specifically a few pages ago after i said my simple friendly opinion. In that post i was more than respectful to both sides. In fact he didnt post one thing implying i was a dupe, he posted 3 times implying im a fake person.

But you're right i should chill. But i stand by what i said. all of it.

[fishirboy]

deleted

[fishirboy]

Hitting the deck is pretty much part of any internally consistent battlefield narrative. Not being able to drop in the face of fire, especially in the open, is really very confusing to me. It could certainly be implemented to not be stupid and cheesy. I don't understand the resistance.


They think dolphin dive, we think tactical hide from fire.

[fishirboy]

You guys need to see this, it does not center over prone but this is what you guy for some reason call campers do, i call them support from a distance.

Sniper Kill Shot !! Barret M107 - YouTube



This does not really show "prone" except who in the **** would want to stand up to take a shot with a sniper??? to me they should have it sway more well standing, not as much crouching and 0 if laying on something, like you could still be crouching but it would have to have it touching the rock to shoot. something like that if you still want 0 prone for some reason.

just for no reason what so ever, 0

[Knightwyvern]

They think dolphin dive, we think tactical hide from fire.

So, crouch and move back down the hill a couple feet. :P

[fishirboy]

So, crouch and move back down the hill a couple feet. :P

see that is the problem when you potion your gun when your crouching you have to have in this game half your chest showing well only your head and solders show when in prone, this stance if for minimizing your targeted body, and keeping your sniper or gun balanced.

[maradine]

That's great when you have a convenient slope. :)

[Red Beard]

You guys need to see this, it does not center over prone but this is what you guy for some reason call campers do, i call them support from a distance.

Sniper Kill Shot !! Barret M107 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvBiH8U5OuY&feature=g-vrec)



This does not really show "prone" except who in the **** would want to stand up to take a shot with a sniper??? to me they should have it sway more well standing, not as much crouching and 0 if laying on something, like you could still be crouching but it would have to have it touching the rock to shoot. something like that if you still want 0 prone for some reason.

just for no reason what so ever, 0


"All the other insurgents in the town" joined the gun fight...Otherwise known as "the local populace"

[Elude]

So, crouch and move back down the hill a couple feet. :P

Or just cloak.

[Stew]

Or just cloak.

MAG PS3 - 181 Kills in Domination 1 / 3 - YouTube

where you see any prone action their ? MAG as prone and ive never seen it been abuse or been a problem at all so yeah lol and this is a 256 player game

[Knightwyvern]

see that is the problem when you potion your gun when your crouching you have to have in this game half your chest showing well only your head and solders show when in prone, this stance if for minimizing your targeted body, and keeping your sniper or gun balanced.

Prone is good for that reason in real life. But this is a game, and not a simulation either. Balance and gameplay is more important. Having a cloaking sniper who can use prone on top of everything else, hundreds of meters away in a game would just be frustrating. Crouching works nearly as well anyways.

That's great when you have a convenient slope. :)

If you're not using a slope, you're not doing it right. :P

Or just cloak.

Lol, exactly.

[fishirboy]

Or just cloak.

but i am not just talking about far away sniping i am also talking up close were you cant hid behind a object because crouching does not allow it, just wait until beta and then see don't just hate haha :rolleyes:

[mynameismud]

This pool to me means nothing since its a (( secret pool )) so you cant see if their is accont multiplyer ive sen a guy who reply and was deeply agains prone but has 0 post before this one kinda strange and make me ask one question

is this post is really representative and also make me think Why not waiting for a Prone in build betatest to figure out if it work ?

so for me secret pool are null

Here i put in my xbox live name into my profile to prove im a person, it has the same exact name as my profile. Thats the exact same name as my steam profile. But ya i probably just made a fake xbox gamertag with a phoney gamerscore and all that jazz just to sway a meaningless poll. call me not a person...

[fishirboy]

Prone is good for that reason in real life. But this is a game, and not a simulation either. Balance and gameplay is more important. Having a cloaking sniper who can use prone on top of everything else, hundreds of meters away in a game would just be frustrating. Crouching works nearly as well anyways.

they could make it so that the cloak can't be activated because its to close to the ground and cloak needs small cams that can take images and put out images and having your body there will make you all messed up so at fix there haha.

[Algo]

MAG PS3 - 181 Kills in Domination 1 / 3 - YouTube

After 30 pages of this you're posting a fragvideo of a game with instaprone camping what looks like a spawn exit?

[Stew]

Prone is good for that reason in real life. But this is a game, and not a simulation either. Balance and gameplay is more important. Having a cloaking sniper who can use prone on top of everything else,

P



.

Prone should mean NO cloak and cloak disactivated !



MAG PS3 - 181 Kills in Domination 1 / 3 - YouTube

This proove in a game with prone thats prone is a tool form infatry to temporary take cover and go back as wuick as possible in the figth and also allow you to be efficient and smart !

those who think prone encourage camping are dead wrong !

[fishirboy]

Here i put in my xbox live name into my profile to prove im a person, it has the same exact name as my profile. Thats the exact same name as my steam profile. But ya i probably just made a fake xbox gamertag with a phoney gamerscore and all that jazz just to sway a meaningless poll. call me not a person...

EVERY THING IS A CONSPERICY MAN!!! DONT TRUST ANY ONE!!! NOT EVEN YOU MOM!

[Malorn]

Or just cloak.

Or move behind cover.

[Elude]

but i am not just talking about far away sniping i am also talking up close were you cant hid behind a object because crouching does not allow it, just wait until beta and then see don't just hate haha :rolleyes:

I told you I don't hate prone, it's just redundant without turning it into something like seen in the Arma games.

I also don't see why cloak wouldn't be good up close.

[Elude]

Or move behind cover.

Or just accept your inevitable death and respawn somewhere else.

[Stew]

Or move behind cover.

MAG PS3 - 181 Kills in Domination 1 / 3 - YouTube why you keep ignoring this ? because it goes agains your personal (( opinion ))

look at this video its MAG 256 players and ive play arounf 2000 + hours in this game and ive never seen prone been a problem or encourage camping at all it was a way more a run and gun game full of action and team play

[maradine]

If you're not using a slope, you're not doing it right. :P.

I understand what you're saying, but I think you're misreading my "when I'm under fire, I want to hit the deck" as "I want to be a WTFPWN sniper". If I played infiltrator, I'd be hanging out on the ridge line in defilade like any other sane person. I also agree that cloaking infiltrators at range and prone could be a real bear to deal with. What I am arguing is that, of the two identified evils here:


Distant snipers are hard to spot and/or hit
I'm in a gunfight and I can't lie down.


I'd prefer the evil that is expected and intuitive.

[captainkapautz]

So I kinda don't want to browse 30 pages, but has the "NEED" part been clarified?

I mean the game NEEDS to be balanced and it NEEDS to be fun, but why exactly does it NEED prone?

[Stew]

So I kinda don't want to browse 30 pages, but has the "NEED" part been clarified?

I mean the game NEEDS to be balanced and it NEEDS to be fun, but why exactly does it NEED prone?

because in many situation while in the action as infantry you need to go pronse to use a little hill as a cover or a buch of smalls rocks etc.. to be able to survive and those who said the opposite misunderstand the usage of prone Look up their the MAg video ive post every (( prone campers )) in MAG get destroy the prone is a way to play with cover for efficient infantry soldiers !

prone if implemented like Mag and as a good hit registration will ad to the game whiout making anything bad to it

LOOk up their in mag video and show me how prone can be bad for planetside MAg is a 256 players game BTW

[Elude]

So I kinda don't want to browse 30 pages, but has the "NEED" part been clarified?

I mean the game NEEDS to be balanced and it NEEDS to be fun, but why exactly does it NEED prone?

It doesn't it needs slip and slide mode where I can dive and slide 30 feet.

[maradine]

I don't think any convincing argument has been made for a need in the literal sense. I've seen a few decent arguments that Planetside 2 would be better off with the inclusion.

It doesn't it needs slip and slide mode where I can dive and slide 30 feet.

See, this is something I can't see anyone disagreeing with. The original BF2 implementation of prone was ridiculous. Unless I'm mistaken (cite, please), no one's asking for that.

[Knightwyvern]

I understand what you're saying, but I think you're misreading my "when I'm under fire, I want to hit the deck" as "I want to be a WTFPWN sniper". If I played infiltrator, I'd be hanging out on the ridge line in defilade like any other sane person. I also agree that cloaking infiltrators at range and prone could be a real bear to deal with. What I am arguing is that, of the two identified evils here:


Distant snipers are hard to spot and/or hit
I'm in a gunfight and I can't lie down.


I'd prefer the evil that is expected and intuitive.

I do see your point. But as I said before, gameplay trumps reality in this situation, as in most others. I grant it doesn't make sense that you can't go prone when you're under fire; but for the sake of the game and balance, we need to suspend our disbelief. The same way we say "cloaking suits? plasma cannons? Vanu and TR not instadying to the obviously superior NC!? Oh, ok :)"

[maradine]

Could not agree more - gameplay must come first. Where we differ is on whether a prone state would enhance or detract. Honestly - is dolphin diving what everyone's knickers are in a twist over?

[raidyr]

Planetside 2 does not need prone.

[Stew]

I would like to see more evidance than theorie in here and i would like to see facts instead of agains blindless theorie from both side !

Put up video like i did and to not ignore facts and proof

we will never have something constructive out of this if no ones try to actually see the whole truth inside this topics

been frustrated by some few games do not make this or thats mecanic totally bad or good etc..

anyway i think now it will start to go personal and all this and its disapointing to see people blindly just put up jugement whiout considering anything else smart or any proove as a argument

the whole debate seams sterile

some say We dont want prone thats it i dont like prone or prone = camping

wich is wrong

and many thing proove it

saying be for prone and not aving anything to actually proove the point is also bad for the debate

[Stew]

Planetside 2 does not need prone.

See this actually mean nothing

its like saying

planetside need prone


why ? why planeteside need prone ?

why & why planetside do not need prone ?

[captainkapautz]

because in many situation while in the action as infantry you need to go pronse to use a little hill as a cover or a buch of smalls rocks etc.. to be able to survive and those who said the opposite misunderstand the usage of prone Look up their the MAg video ive post every (( prone campers )) in MAG get destroy the prone is a way to play with cover for efficient infantry soldiers !

prone if implemented like Mag and as a good hit registration will ad to the game whiout making anything bad to it

LOOk up their in mag video and show me how prone can be bad for planetside MAg is a 256 players game BTW

That's not even close enough of a good arguement why PS2 NEEDS prone.

Just because there is no prone, doesn't automatically mean there is no cover.


I don't think any convincing argument has been made for a need in the literal sense. I've seen a few decent arguments that Planetside 2 would be better off with the inclusion.

Yeah, thought so.


OT: Don't care if prone or not, just no dolphindiving if there is prone.

[mynameismud]

people have been using cover effectively waaaaaaay long before prone was even a thought for gaming. ducking behind something with crouch has always worked fine for decades.

the only time prone is better than a crouch (considering the cover was purposely built high enough with crouch in mind) is when you are not in cover at all. When you got caught in the open and decided to hit the deck outa last resort. in which you deserve to be sent to the spawn tubes.

[Algo]

Put up video like i did and to not ignore facts and proof


Man, you posted a video where you go instantly prone with sights up, instantly shoot and instantly get back up.

Did you even try reading the thread?

[Stew]

That's not even close enough of a good arguement why PS2 NEEDS prone.

Just because there is no prone, doesn't automatically mean there is no cover.




Yeah, thought so.


OT: Don't care if prone or not, just no dolphindiving if there is prone.

The map layout in planetside 2 if not inside a base the infantry soldier will be a way to much at risk so only the big base will be figthable by infatry wich is BAD

Prone allow you to use terrain and little rock as a cover exactly the same way helicopter use mountainside as a cover

as a infantry you can manage to use the hillside rockside etc.. as a cover to securely moove foward util you get a decent cover

almost 80 % of the entire planetside maps features those key element thats make you think prone is a must have for infantry

infiltrator clock should not work while prone and have to be disactivated and not be able to activate it while prone only work while crouch and stand up probelm solve

So ive put up a MAG video but i can put up legions of them if need it to proove in a large scale game prones isnt a problem at all it do not encourage camping

But this as been ignore and people keep saying the same stuff even if this is wrong !

[maradine]

Dear Stew,

A video demonstrating how prone adds cheese to the meal isn't going to help our position, brother.

Love,
Mara

[Stew]

Man, you posted a video where you go instantly prone with sights up, instantly shoot and instantly get back up.

Did you even try reading the thread?

Have u seen any guys on prone camping who dominate anyones ? the only hills pronme camper as been detroy by my friend Moejoe ;)

[Algo]

Nope, just saw a video of a guy sitting off spawn hitting the instaprone when shit hit the fan.

[duomaxwl]

Have u seen any guys on prone camping who dominate anyones ? the only hills pronme camper as been detroy by my friend Moejoe ;)

Stew, I can understand your position. You want prone. That's fine. But the majority do not. You won't be able to change their minds. It's a feature that most do not want, and it's not in the game because the dev's did not want it. You can keep arguing all you want, but you will most likely not be able to change this. The chances of prone being in this game are slim to none.

[Stew]

Nope, just saw a video of a guy sitting off spawn hitting the instaprone when shit hit the fan.

lost of time talking to someone like this

[Elude]

Prone is redundant, how many times do I have to keep saying this lol, it's in every way just like crouch with some variation. If we add prone I would ask that we remove crouching.

Fighting games seem to understand this, why can't shooters?

[Stew]

Stew, I can understand your position. You want prone. That's fine. But the majority do not. You won't be able to change their minds. It's a feature that most do not want, and it's not in the game because the dev's did not want it. You can keep arguing all you want, but you will most likely not be able to change this. The chances of prone being in this game are slim to none.

This isnt a arguments this isnt a reason If prone do not be in their is must be a reason saying i dont want prone isnt a reason and if the reason is Prone = camping for exemple wich is wrong and i can proove it so why no prone why these guys should be taken as a exemple if their reason agains prone are irrevelant ?

Prone is usefulls for proper infantry moove

The dev as states at E3 thats prone will be implemented and tested in the close BETA i think you miss many thing at e3

And iam totally for to test it out and figure out whats best

in some old games like battlefield 2 and Bf2mc the prone was overuse and was exploits a little like mods controlers COD drop shot exploits

But with decents prone mechanics and anti exploits prone become what it should be a utility moove to get cover and use terrain !

so yeah it seams for you its all black all white

but not form me

its seams for you iam FOR prone and your agains and it seams you try to figth agains me

iam not agains you iam not blind

i want whats it will be the best for the game considering the scales the maps layout etc.. and you should do the same instead of blindly repeating thats your agains prone you in the NO team

thats make no sens to me

you should consider every option


Like if i test prone in a beta and SOE do not mamage to make prone good and fair and if prone is broken or broke the game I will BE AGAIN prone in the final build

If SOE manage to make prone good fair and cant be exploited i will be FOR prone in the final build

[duomaxwl]

This isnt a arguments this isnt a reason If prone do not be in their is must be a reason saying i dont want prone isnt a reason and if the reason is Prone = camping for exemple wich is wrong and i can proove it so why no prone why these guys should be taken as a exemple if their reason agains prone are irrevelant ?

Prone is usefulls for proper infantry moove

The dev as states at E3 thats prone will be implemented and tested in the close BETA i think you miss many thing at e3

And iam totally for to test it out and figure out whats best

in some old games like battlefield 2 and Bf2mc the prone was overuse and was exploits a little like mods controlers COD drop shot exploits

But with decents prone mechanics and anti exploits prone become what it should be a utility moove to get cover and use terrain !

so yeah it seams for you its all black all white

but not form me

its seams for you iam FOR prone and your agains and it seams you try to figth agains me

iam not agains you iam not blind

i want whats it will be the best for the game considering the scales the maps layout etc.. and you should do the same instead of blindly repeating thats your agains prone you in the NO team

thats make no sens to me

you should consider every option


Like if i test prone in a beta and SOE do not mamage to make prone good and fair and if prone is broken or broke the game I will BE AGAIN prone in the final build

If SOE manage to make prone good fair and cant be exploited i will be FOR prone in the final build

I missed that from E3. I will admit it.
Here is a reason: Prone increases the likelihood of people camping. It just does. If they can lie on the ground and make easy kills, they will do it. You can show as many videos as you want, but that's what prone does. You will not change anybodies minds about that. You can get cover from crouching. The majority of people in the poll do not want it. You're going to have to come to terms with that.

Since we like showing useless videos:
http://youtu.be/SgKyheIp7kY
There. Now I have a video showing that prone is used for camping. We can both post useless videos.

[maradine]

Prone is redundant, how many times do I have to keep saying this lol, it's in every way just like crouch with some variation. If we add prone I would ask that we remove crouching.

Fighting games seem to understand this, why can't shooters?

On the off chance this wasn't rhetorical flourish, because fighting games are to a street fight what Serious Sam is to a gun fight. I'd find another analogy.

edit: and just to be sure I heard you correctly, your actual problem with prone is that it's redundant?

[Cuross]

Lol, everyone arguing over right and wrong for prone and the poll just has a majority. Can't wait to see this in Beta.

[Stew]

I missed that from E3. I will admit it.
Here is a reason: Prone increases the likelihood of people camping. It just does..

This isnt true i cant proove it ive never seen thats much camping in any of the games ive play with a massive scales at least more massive than usual like BF with 64 players and MAG with 256 players those who camp rponje are the mostlikely the ones who dies a lots lolll

[maradine]

This isnt true i cant proove it ive never seen thats much camping in any of the games ive play with a massive scales at least more massive than usual like BF with 64 players and MAG with 256 players those who camp rponje are the mostlikely the ones who dies a lots lolll

We need to discuss the definition of "prove". Proving generalizations with anecdotes just doesn't work, my friend. Prone would indeed increase "camping", pretty much by definition. Whether you think camping is a bad thing in an objective-oriented shooter is an entirely different argument, and one you'd have better luck with.

For everyone else:

Here. This is what I want.

http://i.imgur.com/QXeJb.png

[mynameismud]

the funny thing of all this, is like my first post. It really doesnt matter if the feature is right or wrong.

Can prone work in some games? sure, arguing whether prone works in a fps is a personal preference, no one is wrong.

What it comes down to is your personal choice. Saying one does not like prone is a very simple none paragraphic form of saying how you feel.

It doesnt matter if its right or wrong cause its an opinion, What matters is if people like it or not, and if majority of people find it fun or not.

Saying things like "saying just no to prone isnt valid" is silly. I shouldn't need a reason as to why I do not like prone, I should be able to say if I like it or not. you should just respect my opinion like i respect yours. and not call the majority phoney/fake cause you are the minority.

[Malorn]

MAG PS3 - 181 Kills in Domination 1 / 3 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9f3Wl_MexkI&list=UUonZlJLVpZTHDSeS1E7JsHA&index=9&feature=plcp) why you keep ignoring this ? because it goes agains your personal (( opinion ))

look at this video its MAG 256 players and ive play arounf 2000 + hours in this game and ive never seen prone been a problem or encourage camping at all it was a way more a run and gun game full of action and team play

I ignore your video because it is meaningless. Just because you didn't see prone being a problem and found a video of some guy killwhoring does not mean prone wasn't affecting the game. In fact you seem to be illustrating that prone is meaningless and the game is run-and-gun anyway. That being the case, why have prone?

It can't be both ineffectual and necessary.

Either it is necessary and it impacts the game, or it is not and does not. If it doesn't impact the game then this conversation is meaningless. If it impacts the game then the question becomes how does it impact the game, which renders your argument meaningless.

[Verruna]

The whole arguement for/against and people just responding invalid bla bla bla is quite funny. I honestly see little to no reason for prone to be in PS2, i don't see the benefit, nor like the idea of it in the Planetside universe mainly because of what i've seen of the maps and layouts thus far (and general gameplay), i see more cons than pros. Works in some games but don't see it working out here, worth a test i suppose. Thats my opinion btw, not a argument - like the vast majority of other posts in this thread :)

[Blue]

I love prone for MANY reasons. PS however never needed it....and with the direction that PS2 is headed, it would be become as abused as the lean in rainbow six 3 (anybody??)

Let's stick with what we know works well, and what we can fix....not adding game changing alterations that are by majority unpopular...;)

[maradine]

How does one render an opinion after characterizing other opinions as "invalid bla bla bla" with a straight face?

[WaryWizard]

I could see many people complaining if they add prone. I could also see many people complaining if they don't add prone.

If they were to add prone there would have to be some negatives, other than move slower. Such as your character comes to a complete stop, and crouches then goes prone. It shouldn't be a instadrop. You should also not be able to shoot while the character is going prone. Having it like that would make drop shotting(I think that's what its called) impossibible. Also with grassy areas you will be technically blind. You should not be able to use underslung weapons or rockets while prone(if all classes except MAX are allowed to prone). certain gear should also not be usable while prone(turret deploying and maybe a couple others).

The pros of prone would be easy enough. You are harder to see, and don't make as much noise.

it's up to them if they wish to implement it or not. Just make it balanced and realistic, and it should be nice enough to snuff most the haters.

[Atheosim]

Yay for another feature that isn't need

/sarcasm

:huh:
This shit makes me lol so hard.

Isn't it easy to say a feature isn't necessary in a videogame? Are there even any legitimate qualifications for that designation?

[Stew]

I ignore your video because it is meaningless. Just because you didn't see prone being a problem and found a video of some guy killwhoring does not mean prone wasn't affecting the game. In fact you seem to be illustrating that prone is meaningless and the game is run-and-gun anyway. That being the case, why have prone?

It can't be both ineffectual and necessary.

Either it is necessary and it impacts the game, or it is not and does not. If it doesn't impact the game then this conversation is meaningless. If it impacts the game then the question becomes how does it impact the game, which renders your argument meaningless.

I can put up Legions of video thats proove thats prone isnt a problem at all the reason you put up are simply no where near the reality

dude ive play 2000 + in MAG a large scales game with 256 players and if its not a problem their and find me a single video where in MAG a large scales the only modern large scales game FIND ONE video where prone is use and abuse ?

can you ? Not a montage of few shot a real begin to end video i can put up Legions of video if you want to

MAG: Domination - Flores Basin Transfer Gameplay Montage - YouTube

i will not spam their is a random video but their is a lots of bad player video so i know Moejoe is a good player so thats why at take his video at first

Is this game seams to be slow down by the prone ? is this game to be camping festival ?

[Elude]

edit: and just to be sure I heard you correctly, your actual problem with prone is that it's redundant?
I hope you heard that correctly, I said it three times in this thread lol.

[Stew]

I could see many people complaining if they add prone. I could also see many people complaining if they don't add prone.

If they were to add prone there would have to be some negatives, other than move slower. Such as your character comes to a complete stop, and crouches then goes prone. It shouldn't be a instadrop. You should also not be able to shoot while the character is going prone. Having it like that would make drop shotting(I think that's what its called) impossibible. Also with grassy areas you will be technically blind. You should not be able to use underslung weapons or rockets while prone(if all classes except MAX are allowed to prone). certain gear should also not be usable while prone(turret deploying and maybe a couple others).

The pros of prone would be easy enough. You are harder to see, and don't make as much noise.

it's up to them if they wish to implement it or not. Just make it balanced and realistic, and it should be nice enough to snuff most the haters.

I agree with this a Stand » crouch» prone is a good way to make this and prone and crouch on the same key unlike BF3

[maradine]

If they were to add prone there would have to be some negatives, other than move slower. Such as your character comes to a complete stop, and crouches then goes prone. It shouldn't be a instadrop. You should also not be able to shoot while the character is going prone. Having it like that would make drop shotting(I think that's what its called) impossibible. Also with grassy areas you will be technically blind. You should not be able to use underslung weapons or rockets while prone(if all classes except MAX are allowed to prone). certain gear should also not be usable while prone(turret deploying and maybe a couple others).

Everything here is more than reasonable, IMO. I'd even go so far as to say, depending on your armor, it may take a bit of work to get up, too.

I hope you heard that correctly, I said it three times in this thread lol.

Just making sure. I don't have a counterargument for someone with that definition of redundancy.

[mynameismud]

adding prone and making it balanced doesnt remove my dislike for it at all. I dont want to walk into a control point and see a dozen people lying on the ground. And as a medic i want to be able to easily see who is dead and who is alive.

[Phellix]

This isnt a arguments this isnt a reason If prone do not be in their is must be a reason saying i dont want prone isnt a reason and if the reason is Prone = camping for exemple wich is wrong and i can proove it so why no prone why these guys should be taken as a exemple if their reason agains prone are irrevelant ?

Prone is usefulls for proper infantry moove

The dev as states at E3 thats prone will be implemented and tested in the close BETA i think you miss many thing at e3

And iam totally for to test it out and figure out whats best

in some old games like battlefield 2 and Bf2mc the prone was overuse and was exploits a little like mods controlers COD drop shot exploits

But with decents prone mechanics and anti exploits prone become what it should be a utility moove to get cover and use terrain !

so yeah it seams for you its all black all white

but not form me

its seams for you iam FOR prone and your agains and it seams you try to figth agains me

iam not agains you iam not blind

i want whats it will be the best for the game considering the scales the maps layout etc.. and you should do the same instead of blindly repeating thats your agains prone you in the NO team

thats make no sens to me

you should consider every option


Like if i test prone in a beta and SOE do not mamage to make prone good and fair and if prone is broken or broke the game I will BE AGAIN prone in the final build

If SOE manage to make prone good fair and cant be exploited i will be FOR prone in the final build

Holy ps2newguy batman, calm down and read your post before submitting, reading this hurt my brain.

Okay, I'm a PS1 Vet and couldn't sit by and listen to this anymore, I'm willing to bet a good majority of those who voted "yes" haven't played PS1, Why you ask? Because most PS1 players know it's not needed and completely pointless to give an option for camping. My favorite part of PS1 was taking a mossie to the highest peaks and sniping until i was out of ammo or dead. Crouching made snipe battles fun and was a HUGE part of assaulting a base from a hill, if you stayed in the open for more than a few seconds you were dead.

Crouching in the open in this kind of scale would only lead to you dying instantly.

We didn't need prone to defend a base in PS1 because of the way they set the game up, with objects you could create a hallway of men hiding behind the stacks, if they had prone it would of be retarded trying to assault a room because people would just pop up and down inbetween reloads and the offense wouldn't be able to hit them. Same goes for the outside walls, they had the ledges that didn't fully cover you crouched, but had spots where you could take cover. It shouldn't be a pop up and down hedgehog style that's retarded.

My advice is you should probably play PS1 and see what we're talking about and why we don't want it. Planetside was a great game and people have played it for a very long time for a reason; It's not like anything else out there. Nothing comes close.

[Verruna]

How does one render an opinion after characterizing other opinions as "invalid bla bla bla" with a straight face?

Alot of posters in the first few pages that i skimmed over invalidate other posters opinions by simply noting it as invalid being unproductive to the matter at hand caused by said person(s) being far too serialz and mad for their own good. I noted that as funny, although i suppose unproductive posts invalidating others opinions arn't funny, just unproductive.

[maradine]

Alot of posters in the first few pages that i skimmed over invalidate other posters opinions by simply noting it as invalid being unproductive to the matter at hand caused by said person(s) being far too serialz and mad for their own good. I noted that as funny, although i suppose unproductive posts invalidating others opinions arn't funny, just unproductive.

That just confused the fuck out of me, but it made me smile, so you win. I retire defeated. :)

Good night!

[Revanmug]

We need to discuss the definition of "prove". Proving generalizations with anecdotes just doesn't work, my friend. Prone would indeed increase "camping", pretty much by definition.

My only problem with the "prone increase camping" is... How can you love a game where you have to camp your base to defend it from enemy coming for the distance...

And be against camping?

Just curious

please be civilized been raciste and saying such thing about a languages or people do not have a place in forums this isnt contructive and it juts childish and really bad

every people are free to speak the languages they want wiout been juge by people like you i would like to see you to stop saying such thing in the near futur please thanks !

A little respect for others culture and language will not hurt you

That had nothing to do with racism as I can speak French. That doesn't change the fact that the French translation sound pretty damn horrible like most games except for a few ubisoft Montreal games. A wouldn't mind having you learn a more proper English so you can stop shaming our province. Get it?

[Phellix]

My only problem with the "prone increase camping" is... How can you love a game where you have to camp your base to defend it from enemy coming for the distance...

And be against camping?

Just curious

The problem with this logic is assuming defending a base is camping it, when in reality you're actually just defending it.

Camping would be attacking the spawn tubes and not destroying them. If you know what those are.

[maradine]

I think you misread me. I'm not pro- or anti- camp. As you say, if you're holding something static - a base, a strong point, a rally - you're "camping". It's native to objective-based gameplay. The disparaging use of the term came from the days when grabbing the lightning gun and sitting your ass on the quad was a big win button.

[Ironside]

prone won't make it into the game, if it does i'll buy all those that want it a zebra camo

[maradine]

prone won't make it into the game, if it does i'll buy all those that want it a zebra camo

Deal. If it doesn't, I'll buy every legal PS2 player in the Bay Area a beer.

I'm not delusional about the odds on this one, I'm just a fan of parties.

[mynameismud]

If you die lying down you do not earn you way into Valhalla.

Can't we fight like men for the sake of fun like we have done since the first person shooter was invented? Number of shooters with only crouch=over 9000, number of shooters with prone=maybe 20. Let's leave the not fun realistic dont get shot EVER tactics to real war and the mediocre modern shooters that foolishly try emulate them.

Personally I want action mayhem and destruction. prone shoots action in the foot, and with action crippled mayhem and destruction will not flow as it should.

[Envenom]

The battle rages on. Prone will win. You will see.

[Phellix]

Personally I want action mayhem and destruction. prone shoots action in the foot, and with action crippled mayhem and destruction will not flow as it should.

Same, I just want my large scale fights of ridiculousness back :(

The battle rages on. Prone will win. You will see.

Did you not play PS1?

[Stew]

:eek:i wiould have paid 100 $ to verify the integrity of this vote lol 300 vote lol yeah for sure :D hahaha !

Public vote should be consider secret vote cant always be taken with a grain of salt

anyway poll mean nothing to me the Dev team must do whats will be the best for the game and player will have to adapt

sharing contructive idea is good

spamming vote in a secret thing where the same person with 10 accont can spam over and over dosent count to me

and also the relies like

i dont want this or a dont want thats or some irrevelant and wrong arguments like Prone = camping i call bullshit on this

please make sure to not be blind and close mind

this game will come into a beta stage everyones must try to make it better for everyones for the game itself not based on some sort of non sens personal preferance

[Ieyasu]

The battle rages on. Prone will win. You will see.

but then they would have to make animation for it and we know how opposed to that the devs are. hell arent the heavy assualt weapons ready to go theyre just waiting on animations for them?

[Envenom]

They said during the livestream they will be seriously considering prone and potentially implementing it in the coming beta to see how it goes. Once the bittervets see how amazing it is, their tune will change.

*thunder crack*

[Phellix]

:eek:i wiould have paid 100 $ to verify the integrity of this vote lol 300 vote lol yeah for sure :D hahaha !

Public vote should be consider secret vote cant always be taken with a grain of salt

anyway poll mean nothing to me the Dev team must do whats will be the best for the game and player will have to adapt

sharing contructive idea is good

spamming vote in a secret thing where the same person with 10 accont can spam over and over dosent count to me

and also the relies like

i dont want this or a dont want thats or some irrevelant and wrong arguments like Prone = camping i call bullshit on this

please make sure to not be blind and close mind

this game will come into a beta stage everyones must try to make it better for everyones for the game itself not based on some sort of non sens personal preferance

I can respect your opinion, but there's more of an argument to it being more than camping.

Also PS1 Vets are first access to beta, where they will ultimately make their decision, do you really think PS1 Vets are going to want it? Doubtful



They said during the livestream they will be seriously considering prone and potentially implementing it in the coming beta to see how it goes. Once the bittervets see how amazing it is, their tune will change.

*thunder crack*

I know 9* people who i've stayed in contact with who hate the idea of prone being put in, and we've all played multiple fps's over the years. We know how prone works, we don't need a beta to test it.

[Envenom]

I can respect your opinion, but there's more of an argument to it being more than camping.

Also PS1 Vets are first access to beta, where they will ultimately make their decision, do you really think PS1 Vets are going to want it? Doubtful

lol. Only PS1 vets? I've got a beta key and I am vehemently supportive of prone. I started this thread.

Also, not sure if you've noticed but the PS twitter has handed out like 2000+ beta keys in the last three days. Almost one every 2-3 minutes. There will be a lot more than bittervets during the beta my friend!!!

[Rhyfelwrr]

I think prone encourages static gameplay?

You know to one extreme it could become akin to trench warfare but only in worst case scenario.

I think its a bad idea because it slows the pace too much.

[Phellix]

lol. Only PS1 vets? I've got a beta key and I am vehemently supportive of prone. I started this thread.

Also, not sure if you've noticed but the PS twitter has handed out like 2000+ beta keys in the last three days. Almost one every 2-3 minutes. There will be a lot more than bittervets during the beta my friend!!!

You misread my post, I said "Also PS1 Vets are first access to beta", First, not only.

To clarify even more, all the vets will get access first, meaning the vets get their imput above people who haven't played ps1.

[Ironside]

only little girls want prone...real men crouch :p