Planetside 2 Needs Prone

[mynameismud]

try to avoid the personal stuff and insult please stay on topic

So as a reminder your very concern was about the pace

as a exemple ive send you a video of MAG domination and the pace and the flow is pretty solid and can you see the prone position afecting the flow ? if yes i would like to see when why and how !

Also i would have to say this (( not related to prone but related to the flow and pace arguments ))

Ive seen some other people here agains the prone saying it will affect the pace as well

But in another tread the same people was deeply agains a quick revive and even more about a instant revive mechanics wich if in MAg this mechanics of instant revive wasnt their the pace and flow could be dramatically reduce and remember thats in MAg almost everybody custumise their caracter with a medic and revive kit !

so whats you think about instant revive and also awnser my frist question if possible

I am not wasting my time watching your pointless video, like i said this isnt mag.

I dont really care either way on revive, if its instant, thats cool. i played lots of return to wolfenstein so im good there. and i played lots of planetside so if it has a five second or so revive thats cool too.

But please change the topic more and bring up more games not called planetside.

[Khrusky]

So if i dont like prone the way you like prone im a casual gamer now huh?

So i have been "casually" playing games since i was 3?

Sorry, I wasn't trying to be offensive.

Someone else raised the point that games where you really need to learn a lot before you can properly play, like EVE, are off-putting to new players or those who don't view gaming as their main hobby.

Again, I wasn't using casual or new player as pejorative terms so my apology for the offence.

[captainkapautz]

You take BF3 here? Really? MY god, dude, get a clue.

BF3 does not support 2000 Players per map. You cant compare what 32 people (16vs16) do with what 666vs666vs666 do. ITs two completly different worlds.

Well, you have to admit, most of your questions could easily be answered by saying "Use a grenade.".

[Stew]

You take BF3 here? Really? MY god, dude, get a clue.

BF3 does not support 2000 Players per map. You cant compare what 32 people (16vs16) do with what 666vs666vs666 do. ITs two completly different worlds.

i can compare mag to a base battle in planetside 2 »»»»»»»»http://youtu.be/YCDuUIGsf34?t=2m3s««««««

the pace is pretty solid the flow cant be compare to any other game even battlefield

so i would like to see any problem link to the prone position in this ?

[mynameismud]

Sorry, I wasn't trying to be offensive.

Someone else raised the point that games where you really need to learn a lot before you can properly play, like EVE, are off-putting to new players or those who don't view gaming as their main hobby.

Again, I wasn't using casual or new player as pejorative terms so my apology for the offence.

I understand now. sorry for my response then, reading things in my own head's context than what you really intended.

[TheInferno]

Stew, stop repeating the same damn thing. It's ridiculous.

You have shown prone works in a different game. You have not given any reason it is needed here.

Ah, why am I even posting, you aren't going to listen to what anyone says anyways because you have to be right and that's final. Off to more constructive threads!

EDIT: To those who have been posting well reasoned arguments on both sides, I don't mean any offense. But the last three pages just... arrrrgh. At this point the arguments for and against have been hashed, rehashed, and hash browned, and I can't really think of anything more constructive to post myself. The poll shows what the community thinks, and if they want to see the reasoning behind it, there's 50+ pages of that, and anything I post probably won't help.

[captainkapautz]

i can compare mag to a base battle in planetside 2 »»»»»»»»http://youtu.be/YCDuUIGsf34?t=2m3s««««««

the pace is pretty solid the flow cant be compare to any other game even battlefield

so i would like to see any problem link to the prone position in this ?

The problem with your video is pretty simple, it shows MAG, so prone works in MAG that's fine and all, but that is not a valid arguement for why it should work in PS2.

I mean if prone works in MAG then by your definition it should work in every FPS, yet I don't see prone in Halo, CS or several other FPSs.

[Stew]

The problem with your video is pretty simple, it shows MAG, so prone works in MAG that's fine and all, but that is not a valid arguement for why it should work in PS2.

I mean if prone works in MAG then by your definition it should work in every FPS, yet I don't see prone in Halo, CS or several other FPSs.

Good point have you play planetside 2 ?

How you know if its gonna work or not in planetside 2 ?

neither me and you have play planetside but the game yet

like i said i would like to have the most freedom of moovement as possible

But if after tested it in real multiple beta build if it do not work in planetside and if the prone mechanics are broken ill be the first to say to remoove it from the final build

beta will tell us but from my experience prone should not be a problem for the pace or for the flow or anything like this

[Malorn]

Lets make a list here. You pro prone folks have 24 hours to give proper arguments against the points made on the list. go!

1. Cloakers and PRone. Imagine a Infiltrator going up to a good spot, proning and cloaking. He sits there cloaked, shoots, and cloaks again. There is literally nothing you can do against him, as he got a extremly low profile.

2. Medics/engis and Prone. They simply chill behind, absolutly save from direct fire, and heal the guys up front.

3. Light assault and Prone: Would completly deny them the use of jumpjets, making the whole thing a rather nasty tradeoff. Mobolity is key for them, making prone absolutly useless for Light assault.

4. Defending and prone: Have fun trying to break a line of people just proning everywhere. Its almost impssible.

5. The zerg and prone: In planetside, heck, no, in EVERY game you have the problem that people are afraid of dying. Instead of Rushing, they just chill and wait around the corner. With prone, they have even less reason to move, as they have a smaller chance of killing a dude if they hop around the corner due to low profile, have more enemys shooting at them as prone allows 2 people behind one another to fire at you, and on top of that even gives a damn good reason not to move at all in the first place. The zerg would be proning EVERYWHERE, making Infantary engagments the most boring expirience ever.

Try to give arguments against these. I know you wont...

Nice post Basti. The 5th one is the one that I believe is the worst part of prone. When you lower the cross section of someone, attacking becomes more difficult. When you multiply that by hundreds and thousands of players with tons of cover, lights, etc and even darkness you're going to get situations where people simply aren't encouraged to attack.

By not having prone, you encourage attack and make things harder for defenders. People claiming prone helps attackers to don't understand that they can simply add more (and higher) cover for exterior places to help give attackers a better chance and don't need to add something like Prone which cuts both ways.

And the bottom line is that in spite of what the subject of this thread says - no, the game does not need prone. It can and will be successful without it, and prone is a threat to the gameplay that we know we like. There's been enough poor gameplay as a result of prone in the past that the risk vs reward for prone is not even remotely worth it.

[mynameismud]

And the bottom line is that in spite of what the subject of this thread says - no, the game does not need prone. It can and will be successful without it, and prone is a threat to the gameplay that we know we like. There's been enough poor gameplay as a result of prone in the past that the risk vs reward for prone is not even remotely worth it.

^^^

[Stew]

By not having prone, you encourage attack and make things harder for defenders. People claiming prone helps attackers to don't understand that they can simply add more (and higher) cover for exterior places to help give attackers a better chance and don't need to add something like Prone which cuts both ways.
.

Sniper team ? sniper team huhu !

Do they run ? do they atack ? no they dont they are sniper team !

Sniper Team - Battlefield Bad Company 2 Music Video - YouTube ««««« Here

this is the way in is in everygame prone or no prone not having prone will not encourage anyones to work the objective at all

turning into a circle with irrevelant sentence !

Prone is a standing position not a way to play

playstyle isnt a stand position please try to understand this

[ThermalReaper]

-snip- not having prone will not encourage anyones to work the objective at all -snip-

Please tell me you wrote that incorrectly.:lol:

[Stardouser]

1. By not having prone, you encourage attack and make things harder for defenders. People claiming prone helps attackers to don't understand that they can simply add more (and higher) cover for exterior places to help give attackers a better chance and don't need to add something like Prone which cuts both ways.


Some prone opponents seem to want to power up the defenders. Are you saying power up the attackers(even if the "power up" is merely encouragement to attack)?

Also, no one has offered any proof that not having prone will encourage attacking or vice versa, that prone will discourage attacking. Most of you have stated that you do not accept other games, and their implementations of prone, as proof that prone works, because they are not large scale MMO FPS games. I will therefore reciprocate and state that since PS1 did not have prone, it is therefore not acceptable as proof that it doesn't work. As a result, the only way to settle this is to test it during beta.

If the prone opponent faction is right, then there should be obvious problems that arise in the beta, and you will all be proven correct.

[Phellix]

Stew, stop repeating the same damn thing. It's ridiculous.

You have shown prone works in a different game. You have not given any reason it is needed here.

Ah, why am I even posting, you aren't going to listen to what anyone says anyways because you have to be right and that's final. Off to more constructive threads!



This. I can't believe Stew is still going on with the same exact rants telling everyone they don't have proof and they're wrong and he's right.
Majority doesn't want it. And most people who have said yes admit they haven't played PS1, What does that say? I mean really. Let it go.

[Retaliation]

Some prone opponents seem to want to power up the defenders. Are you saying power up the attackers(even if the "power up" is merely encouragement to attack)?

Also, no one has offered any proof that not having prone will encourage attacking or vice versa, that prone will discourage attacking. Most of you have stated that you do not accept other games, and their implementations of prone, as proof that prone works, because they are not large scale MMO FPS games. I will therefore reciprocate and state that since PS1 did not have prone, it is therefore not acceptable as proof that it doesn't work. As a result, the only way to settle this is to test it during beta.

If the prone opponent faction is right, then there should be obvious problems that arise in the beta, and you will all be proven correct.

There's also no proof that prone won't encourage sitzkrieg. The rub is that since prevailing opinion is that prone will harm the game, it's up to the proneponents (I'm sorry don't shoot me) to provide evidence that it will benefit the game.

[Stew]

This. I can't believe Stew is still going on with the same exact rants telling everyone they don't have proof and they're wrong and he's right.
Majority doesn't want it. And most people who have said yes admit they haven't played PS1, What does that say? I mean really. Let it go.

ans those guys are saying with the same exact rants telling everyones that having prone will encourage camping will break the pace or the flow of the game but they still like you said never but real arguments just opinions no exemple no video nothing but countless post about the same subject Prone = camping or prone = slow pace wich is wrong and ive been arguing on thats with many people and iam not the only ones who think like thats so ...

saying thats majority dosent want it is irrevelant the pool count as nothing to me could be biase or exploits with multiple accont etc...

its kinda stange to see the NO spamming as long as we cant see who votes for whats its irrevelant to me and also

saying people dont want it base on a small amount of people like this is also irrevelant

the thing thats must be discuss isnt the result of a secret pool thats can be easily tricked

its the arguments debatable and the game concepts etc..

most Bf players wich will be a HUGE part of the population in planetside 2 have voted yess for prone and was mostly harrasing dice to have no put prone into bfbc ! so yeah millions people will play ps2 not 100

[Khrusky]

There's also no proof that prone won't encourage sitzkrieg. The rub is that since prevailing opinion is that prone will harm the game, it's up to the proneponents (I'm sorry don't shoot me) to provide evidence that it will benefit the game.
Proponents.

Give us a logical reason why prone is more likely to produce this gameplay than cover. I haven't seen a convincing argument yet about why a player who wouldn't hide behind cover where it's safe by crouching, would suddenly start diving into cover all over the place because now they have prone.

As he said, if we can't compare PlanetSide even to BF3 (which they've explicitly stated in the past is the basis for their overall game combat model) then no proof for either side can be provided. Beta testing would be the only way to know.

[Vanu Techpriest]

I generally dislike prone in my FPS games. It is more realistic but it also promotes camping and can make combat more difficult for casual players.

It can also lead to "dolphin diving" like in Call of Duty/Battlefield 3 which looks really wonky and hurts the immersion imo.

[Phellix]

ans those guys are saying with the same exact rants telling everyones that having prone will encourage camping will break the pace or the flow of the game but they still like you said never but real arguments just opinions no exemple no video nothing but countless post about the same subject Prone = camping or prone = slow pace wich is wrong and ive been arguing on thats with many people and iam not the only ones who think like thats so ...

saying thats majority dosent want it is irrevelant the pool count as nothing to me could be biase or exploits with multiple accont etc...

its kinda stange to see the NO spamming as long as we cant see who votes for whats its irrevelant to me and also

saying people dont want it base on a small amount of people like this is also irrevelant

the thing thats must be discuss isnt the result of a secret pool thats can be easily tricked

its the arguments debatable and the game concepts etc..

most Bf players wich will be a HUGE part of the population in planetside 2 have voted yess for prone and was mostly harrasing dice to have no put prone into bfbc ! so yeah millions people will play ps2 not 100

Oh look, the same thing i've read multiple times.
You're still comparing PS2 to other games and you can't. You obviously didn't play PS1 for long. You've made multiple posts on these forums arguing changes, linking videos, preaching "you're wrong no proof". STOP POSTING, YOU ARE NOT CONSTRUCTIVE. IT'S YOUR WAY OR THE HIGHWAY.

"ans those guys are saying with the same exact rants telling everyones that having prone will encourage camping will break the pace or the flow of the game but they still like you said never but real arguments just opinions no exemple no video nothing but countless post about the same subject Prone = camping or prone = slow pace wich is wrong and ive been arguing on thats with many people and iam not the only ones who think like thats so ... "

You're being a hypocrite by saying they're only opinions when you're stating your own are right and theirs are wrong.

[Noivad]

I voted yes - Prone ok. Only tried BF3 beta it sucked enough said. Playing Planetside1 since start of 2004. Have no problem with prone or snipers, perfer Light - heavy assult. Prone snipers die just as easy as kneeling ones or standing ones. You just got to learn how to deal with them and kill them.

If it makes the players stop being senceless rushers, without using cover I'm all for it. OCOKA for realism. The game would be more emersive with prone play.

Always wished PS1 had prone too. But then my outfit plays military style not zerg style, so I can see the zerg players having a problem with prone. Kind of like the same type of people who had problems with BFRs.

Learn to overcome, adapt, improvise and do what it takes to kill what ever needs killing. :evil: Planetside is not a solo kiddie game - It a team oriented adult game.

[GuyFawkes]

surely prone will be a magmower or reavers wet dream

[Zehtuka]

This would be one of those things to try out in the beta, even if prone uses some placeholder animations it would be useful to find out how much it impacts gameplay.

[McBane]

This would be one of those things to try out in the beta, even if prone uses some placeholder animations it would be useful to find out how much it impacts gameplay.

Exactly, why not simply try it out and make a fact-based assessment afterwards.

[Stew]

Oh look, the same thing i've read multiple times.
You're still comparing PS2 to other games and you can't. You obviously didn't play PS1 for long. You've made multiple posts on these forums arguing changes, linking videos, preaching "you're wrong no proof". STOP POSTING, YOU ARE NOT CONSTRUCTIVE. IT'S YOUR WAY OR THE HIGHWAY.

"ans those guys are saying with the same exact rants telling everyones that having prone will encourage camping will break the pace or the flow of the game but they still like you said never but real arguments just opinions no exemple no video nothing but countless post about the same subject Prone = camping or prone = slow pace wich is wrong and ive been arguing on thats with many people and iam not the only ones who think like thats so ... "

You're being a hypocrite by saying they're only opinions when you're stating your own are right and theirs are wrong.

Higby , John Smedley CEO of sony ( huge Battlefield fans ) , tramel isaac , and many more SOE dev as state themself thats planetside 2 gameplay guneplay caracter moovement etc.. have been inspire by all the last modernshooter and mainly battlefield as been the primary inspiration

thats have been states by the dev team themself

I still think they are wrong and i say why this is the goal of a dicussion and a debate to find a way of understanding i simply cant agree with them because i cant find any arguments to validate in whats they said but also in my deep experience in online shooters anything thats can make me think thats prone will lead the game where they said i mena by thats the whole (( prone = camping , prone = gameplay pace flow reduce ))

But i can say one thing thats can affect the pace and the flow for real having uneficient medic !

But prone ? the questions is there

How prone could lead to a camping and lead to reduce the pace or flow of the games

which past games have been like this

because u cant make statement whiout having specific reference

i do not see yet anything thats proove prone could be anywhere near a problem in planetside 2 and yes planetside 2 could be compare to MAG or BF3 in many ways even if planetside will be greater and have unprecedent scales

[vasito]

lol you all sound like COD kiddies. Prone =/= camping. Prone =/= dolphin diving.
Maybe you know prone from cod only. ahah. You are really close minded.

In real war the way you defend areas is by having a DEFENSIBLE POSITION, which is what you all call "camping." Prone is a major part of that. It is how war works. You need to man up and stop whining.

[ThermalReaper]

Also, we know you've pointed out a game where prone works multiple times. We've even said we've seen it. However, does something working in one game make it necessary in another game?

This is exactly right. Stew, read this please.

[Stardouser]

There's also no proof that prone won't encourage sitzkrieg. The rub is that since prevailing opinion is that prone will harm the game, it's up to the proneponents (I'm sorry don't shoot me) to provide evidence that it will benefit the game.

That can't be done without testing it, as I mentioned, both sides are physically prevented from citing the appropriate evidence due to no game with prone being a proper MMOFPS and no proper MMOFPS having prone*. Therefore, the challenge is now on SOE: Beta test it, and let's settle this. Beyond that, we're basically chanting Duck Season - Rabbit Season here.

*WW2OL had prone but had a realism focus. A game need not be realism focused to have prone.

[Vanu Techpriest]

lol you all sound like COD kiddies. Prone =/= camping. Prone =/= dolphin diving.
Maybe you know prone from cod only. ahah. You are really close minded.

In real war the way you defend areas is by having a DEFENSIBLE POSITION, which is what you all call "camping." Prone is a major part of that. It is how war works. You need to man up and stop whining.

It's a good thing this is a video game played for fun and not a real war then.

Prone causes camping because generally you move much slower in prone. When people go prone they probably don't plan to be moving a lot. Prone also makes attacking a base much more difficult because the size of the enemy target just shrunk by 75%. A couple guys laying prone in a chokepoint with powerful weapons can take out many many attackers.

This game isn't designed to be some military sim. It's a massive scale arcade style action game and I'm glad there will be no prone.

[Retaliation]

Proponents.

Give us a logical reason why prone is more likely to produce this gameplay than cover. I haven't seen a convincing argument yet about why a player who wouldn't hide behind cover where it's safe by crouching, would suddenly start diving into cover all over the place because now they have prone.

As he said, if we can't compare PlanetSide even to BF3 (which they've explicitly stated in the past is the basis for their overall game combat model) then no proof for either side can be provided. Beta testing would be the only way to know.

Proneponents was a self indulgent pun.


First of all prone is a defensive posture by nature. To attack you have to advance. To advance you have to be able to move at a decent pace. Often crouch is at a borderline useful speed for crouching, so to keep crouch useful prone has to offer benefits other than moving. Harder to hit and better accuracy are no brainer bonuses. Planetside is also a game of maneuver however, so it has to be able to compete with moving targets (staying still becomes a death sentence).
This is probably why people don't want prone. Since movement is your best defence and TTK is hopefully going to be high enough to react to sudden threats, the target will likely just exploit the prone guy's immobility and kill him.
So for prone to be useful it has to have a reason to be used. Maybe where there's no cover, but engineers have deployable cover. Corner ambushing could be a good one, but there's really no difference between standing there as the whole point is to kill the guy before he can kill you. You would have to make prone players significantly harder to dislodge to make up for the inability to move.

Secondly there's a bit of gaming psychology here. Decent players who camp aren't really an issue. They're camping for a sound strategic reason, but in my experience in RTS, FPS, TPS when you don't know what to do there are two strong impulses. Bumrushing is one, standing still is the other. Since Bumrushing inevitably leads to death, if they don't learn how to attack they'll just sit. Even when no one is attacking. Even when there's an enemy push on the other side of the map. Prone then becomes an obvious choice. If you're not going to move why stand? They're getting an advantage without even putting any thought in it. This is a case of keeping something out of the hands of good players to prevent a stale metagame. It's the same reason why expanding is rewarded so hard in RTS, a fact that I doubt resident starcraft fanatic Matt Higby let slip by.

[Pella]

Yay for another feature that isn't need

/sarcasm

Prone never works proper in any game, and tends to lead to similar frustrations as bunnyhopping does.


This from page 2. That is all.

[captainkapautz]

Can we please close this thread and have another one when beta hits and we get to test if prone's okay or not?

Because atm this thread is kind of atrocious.

[ThermalReaper]

Can we please close this thread and have another one when beta hits and we get to test if prone's okay or not?

Because atm this thread is kind of atrocious.

You know, you are right. Too bad it gets bumped and revived each time you make a post like this. :lol:

[Stardouser]

Can we please close this thread and have another one when beta hits and we get to test if prone's okay or not?

Because atm this thread is kind of atrocious.

Seconded. It's a duck season- rabbit season tennis match now. The only argument I really wish to advance any further at this point is a challenge to SOE to let us test it.

[Stew]

This is exactly right. Stew, read this please.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheInferno
Also, we know you've pointed out a game where prone works multiple times. We've even said we've seen it. However, does something working in one game make it necessary in another game?


ill say this have nothing to do with others games

Prone is a stand position

Not a game features

stand up
crouch
prone

3 stand

it have nothing to do whith others games it only have to do with the caracter moovement and possibilitys

having the 3 stand position ad to the freedom of choice in How you can have different aproch to many situations

its like saying we will not implement Jump in planetside 2 because its not because jump in others game work thats it should be in planetside 2

rainbowsix series do not have jump

Jump should not be in planetside because people can bunny hump


remooving a feature instead of making it better isnt the way to go it always depend on how it will be implemented and how the mechanics will work


not been able to prone is the equivalent of not be able to jump it lead you to be incapacitate to perform some action thats can be crucial for your survive

for sure the game could work with or whiout it but thats not the point iam all for having more option and more freedoms afterall iam an NC ;)

[Sirisian]

I'd love to see your evidence for that claim.
Just search for BF and COD and Arma in the thread. Most of them are essentially describing they don't want some of the exploitable implementations. When I did my summary post for instance a lot of people were commenting on how they didn't want a diving prone or collision issues. (Feet going through a wall). However, other posts were simply stating "look at BF3 where you can back up into a wall. That would suck in Planetside 2" as an actual argument assuming that implementation.

It's fine to reference other games for what not to do and what to do, but we're seeing people going "if it's implemented, it will be implemented like X game, and that way doesn't work". We've had multiple posts now that referenced games where it did work well and added a lot to the game. I personally bring up BF2142 and the engineer class because the use of prone with the shield is something you don't see in any other game when it comes to player tactics. We're seeing part of it already in Planetside 2 where players are throwing down the mana turret for defense against players and utilizing the shield to protect themselves. Prone basically opens up a huge amount of gameplay tactics especially when dodging enemy fire. Something as simple as crouching behind a wall and realize you're getting shot and switching to prone to get out of the way gives players that added level of choice.

I've already seen a few places in the gameplay videos where prone would have been awesome to see. Especially on the flat roofs. Places where the natural cover isn't there and getting low would be a valid tactical advantage for players. That and the outdoor combat we saw already in the game in the rocks. (I have to assume most people are imagining all infantry combat will be in the bases. That wasn't the case in Planetside 1, and we'll see that during beta when the restrictions we saw at E3 are lifted).

Then we have these kind of posts which ignore the implementation all together in Planetside 2 and instead decide that Prone can't work in other games, so it can't work in Planetside 2:

It just doesn't belong in a game like this. It'd be like adding prone to Tribes.

Also with how Basti just got refuted on every argument he brought up it's pretty clear the people against prone have no legitimate argument other than "We have crouch which will already be exploited to use cover. Players should be running out in the open, not sitting behind cover crouched or laying on the ground. This isn't a tactical game that would benefit from such player choices."

[ThermalReaper]

ill say this have nothing to do with others games

Prone is a stand position

Not a game features

stand up
crouch
prone

3 stand

it have nothing to do whith others games it only have to do with the caracter moovement and possibilitys

having the 3 stand position ad to the freedom of choice in How you can have different aproch to many situations

its like saying we will not implement Jump in planetside 2 because its not because jump in others game work thats it should be in planetside 2

rainbowsix series do not have jump

Jump should not be in planetside because people can bunny hump


remooving a feature instead of making it better isnt the way to go it always depend on how it will be implemented and how the mechanics will work


not been able to prone is the equivalent of not be able to jump it lead you to be incapacitate to perform some action thats can be crucial for your survive

for sure the game could work with or whiout it but thats not the point iam all for having more option and more freedoms afterall iam an NC ;)

Rainbow six vegas doesn't have(and it's probably same for the rest of the series) jump because it doesn't even have platforming or barely any obstacles that you need to jump or climb over to progress. Planetside 2 would probably have the latter. Another example is mass effect. Did you need prone in that game? No. Did you need to jump in that game? No.
I guess what I'm trying to say is, you shouldn't really put something because it's in other games. An example of this other than the two above was a Max Payne 3 talkthrough I'd seen recently on youtube. Someone complained that dropping yourself in water automatically returns you in water and that's one thing uncharted 3 had over it. Another one replies that there is barely any water in the game other than that, so there is no point in swimming. You get the picture?

Edit: Also calling "master" Higby a starcraft fanatic is an insult? Watcha mean by that?! :lol:

Also, I never mean to insult you or anyone on this. My replies may have looked mean but I mean no harm. I'm just saying, there is no reason for it unless we've played the beta and it's a really needed feature. Zebra camo! Game is ruined without it. End of story.

[Stew]

Proneponents was a self indulgent pun.


First of all prone is a defensive posture by nature. To attack you have to advance. To advance you have to be able to move at a decent pace. Often crouch is at a borderline useful speed for crouching

that I doubt resident starcraft fanatic Matt Higby let slip by.

first insulting matt will change nothing

second i have to stop it rigth were you begin Prone isnt a defensive position prone is a stand position in the 3 primary position stand up,crouch, prone

you can be in a defense position while in a tower in a stand up position or in a crouch or prone position been on defense do not mean whats stand you will use !

3rd I personally use the prone to use the terrain as a cover in a run and guns playstyle and i play agressive and the prone possition help a lots to use some small object and debris as a cover to reload .. to heal myself .. etc.. the whole prone = camping base defense isnt true

if iam camped in a windows can i be prone ? NO i cant iam i in a defensive position ? yes since iam defending so yeah thats pretty much it

[captainkapautz]

Jesus Stew, just stop posting already, you aren't helping your arguement at all and quite frankly whatever you post is pretty damn hard to read, much less to understand.

[Gandhi]

Also with how Basti just got refuted on every argument he brought up it's pretty clear the people against prone have no legitimate argument other than "We have crouch which will already be exploited to use cover. Players should be running out in the open, not sitting behind cover crouched or laying on the ground. This isn't a tactical game that would benefit from such player choices."
Nope I for one don't, and I don't see any legitimate reasons for it either. It's purely a game design decision, because you can have a perfectly good system without prone and a perfectly good system with prone. Make that decision early and you can build the rest of the game around it easily enough, including offering sufficient cover for crouched players where cover is intended.

The only fact here is that implementing prone takes time, quite a lot of time. It means several new sets of animations and a whole new branch of collision testing to make sure you don't have peoples legs clipping through walls or rocks or ground. It's not a simple addition, it's a lot of work.

[Retaliation]

first insulting matt will change nothing

second i have to stop it rigth were you begin Prone isnt a defensive position prone is a stand position in the 3 primary position stand up,crouch, prone

you can be in a defense position while in a tower in a stand up position or in a crouch or prone position been on defense do not mean whats stand you will use !

3rd I personally use the prone to use the terrain as a cover in a run and guns playstyle and i play agressive and the prone possition help a lots to use some small object and debris as a cover to reload .. to heal myself .. etc.. the whole prone = camping base defense isnt true

if iam camped in a windows can i be prone ? NO i cant iam i in a defensive position ? yes since iam defending so yeah thats pretty much it

First of all if I was insulting Higby for being a Starcraft fanatic, it would look something like "Resident Starcraft and arthritis fanatic Matt Higby".

Second saying prone isn't position intended for defense is like saying giant tortoises make excellent fast attack helicopters.

[Stew]

Nope I for one don't, and I don't see any legitimate reasons for it either. It's purely a game design decision, because you can have a perfectly good system without prone and a perfectly good system with prone. Make that decision early and you can build the rest of the game around it easily enough, including offering sufficient cover for crouched players where cover is intended.

The only fact here is that implementing prone takes time, quite a lot of time. It means several new sets of animations and a whole new branch of collision testing to make sure you don't have peoples legs clipping through walls or rocks or ground. It's not a simple addition, it's a lot of work.

the legitimate reason for it is having more possibility gameplay wise iam a runer and gunners and front line assault guy and i use prone a lots in order to suceed my multiples assault it help to have situational awareness also help me to resuply heal reload etc.. while always mooving foward

i understand the whole point of prone implementation if its badly implemented i prefer to not have it as well

but if its well done i will greatly apreciate it as a tool for me to get advantage of the terrain and will make my play session a way more tactical and fair having cover who just lets a part of your head uncover and u get kill while reloading because of thats its frustrating for no reason because with prone i could avoid these thing

[maradine]

Seconded. It's a duck season- rabbit season tennis match now. The only argument I really wish to advance any further at this point is a challenge to SOE to let us test it.

That's all I want to see at this point.

[Khrusky]

Proneponents was a self indulgent pun.


First of all prone is a defensive posture by nature. To attack you have to advance. To advance you have to be able to move at a decent pace. Often crouch is at a borderline useful speed for crouching, so to keep crouch useful prone has to offer benefits other than moving. Harder to hit and better accuracy are no brainer bonuses. Planetside is also a game of maneuver however, so it has to be able to compete with moving targets (staying still becomes a death sentence).
This is probably why people don't want prone. Since movement is your best defence and TTK is hopefully going to be high enough to react to sudden threats, the target will likely just exploit the prone guy's immobility and kill him.
So for prone to be useful it has to have a reason to be used. Maybe where there's no cover, but engineers have deployable cover. Corner ambushing could be a good one, but there's really no difference between standing there as the whole point is to kill the guy before he can kill you. You would have to make prone players significantly harder to dislodge to make up for the inability to move.

Secondly there's a bit of gaming psychology here. Decent players who camp aren't really an issue. They're camping for a sound strategic reason, but in my experience in RTS, FPS, TPS when you don't know what to do there are two strong impulses. Bumrushing is one, standing still is the other. Since Bumrushing inevitably leads to death, if they don't learn how to attack they'll just sit. Even when no one is attacking. Even when there's an enemy push on the other side of the map. Prone then becomes an obvious choice. If you're not going to move why stand? They're getting an advantage without even putting any thought in it. This is a case of keeping something out of the hands of good players to prevent a stale metagame. It's the same reason why expanding is rewarded so hard in RTS, a fact that I doubt resident starcraft fanatic Matt Higby let slip by.

Oh. Is it a reference I'm not getting?

Are you arguing that prone isn't useful? It seems counter-intuitive but it's what your argument seems to suggest. I will respond as if it is.
Prone is just another trade-off, like they've been going on about on the cert topic. Less mobility for more accuracy and smaller front hit box. Prone can be used very effectively to ensure that they can't be killed too easily while sniping by the people they're trying to snipe. That's just one example. It has simple counters though, so it it just a trade-off rather than a straight advantage. Prone isn't - and shouldn't be considered - useful indoors.

Again, what I said before: if the guy wasn't going to move before, how does the game become staler because instead of standing still he's sitting?

[Sirisian]

The only fact here is that implementing prone takes time, quite a lot of time. It means several new sets of animations and a whole new branch of collision testing to make sure you don't have peoples legs clipping through walls or rocks or ground. It's not a simple addition, it's a lot of work.
These kind of arguments should really be left out. You aren't qualified, nor familiar with their engine, to judge how easily such things can be implemented. This argument style has also been frowned upon in numerous other threads since it can apply to anything added to the game whether you support it or not.

[Khrusky]

That's all I want to see at this point.

Sincere interest:
Do we agree that prone should be in the beta for testing, or is this a contended point also?

[mirwalk]

I worry about two main things with prone.

First is chokepoints. I see 3 or 4 guys in a stairway laying prone. They do this in a manner that allows them to shoot down the stairs while only having maybe 10% of the body exposed to enemy fire. As such 3 guys (4 if you have a medic) can hold off 10-20 people. This is mostly caused by you being prone and getting lots of cover, and lots of accuracy to shoot at the enemies. While the enemy is denied any cover and loses accuracy since they are moving.
Good tactic? You bet. frustrating as hell to the average gamer? You bet.

The same situation with crouchers, and you can hold off maybe 6-10 people. the amount of extra trouble prone causes to attackers is where most of the issue is. Many gamers can't stand it and most won't care as much that it is gone.

Second scenario. Snipers. Lots of rock and cover out there to snipe from. That's with crouching. Add prone and that locations jump by 100% or more. Very difficult for people to spot and work out where you are. Especially without kill cams. Add a little cloak for movement between sniping spots. A good sniper will be damn near unkillable.

Of course most gamers hate snipers since you get the feeling of having no recourse to fight back as you are not as accurate at range as they are, and you have a hard time locating them in the brush, especially with camo, cloak, and prone.

Both of these situations exist in game currently with crouch. With prone the issue goes up by a lot.

The answer of use grenades and AOE weapons is not as good as it was in PS1. The Devs have stated they are working to reduce AOE use and spamming. Hence the reason grenades cost resources. We don't have the rocklet or thumper.

Also the other rocket/ grenade weapons are AV weapons on MAXs. And from the E3 feeds you can see they reduced the damage those do to infantry. Most maxes died to regular soldiers when using AV against them. So those are not going to help break such choke point scenarios.

Most of these issues will happen in buildings and base fights. You can't call in much help from air when you are in a bunker. They only real hope is breaking these setups with MAXs.

I don't have a decent fix with snipers. The only sniper who would be caught is a static sniper. If he moves every min or two, he will be difficult to take out.

Most of what people want prone for can be accomplished by crouch and little higher cover then in most games. However prone opens a new level of power and use that can overbalance a game in one way or another.

One point I would make on prone and LAs. Sure using prone takes away the ability to jump jet. However, the places they can get to and then go prone at increases. This can make it impossible for anyone but another LA to get to that location to sneak up on them or take them out.

I remember BF3 fights I left after being sniped again and again by someone in a building that I had no way to get to and couldn't shoot at. He had the height for more field of fire, he had open ground to kill me in if I tried to cross the distance, He was hard to locate as to which building he was in. With as open as Planetside is, I don't want to make you average, low skilled player to be easy kills to the point they just say forget it an leave.

[mirwalk]

Sincere interest:
Do we agree that prone should be in the beta for testing, or is this a contended point also?

I would say keep it out. As I said in my previous post, once in I think unless it is completely broken it would not be removed. By that I mean the game without prone would be like a 9 but with would be a 7. Too many people would throw a tantrum if you pulled out a feature that a vocal minority likes to get prone removed. So it would pull the game down. The players who don't like it would leave or grumble about it. So usually these things remain.

This above is a fear, and if done then you could never know what may have happened a different way.

[ThermalReaper]

I guess if you put it in and it's removed you'd have many people complaining about the removal. If you hadn't put it in a lower amount of people would have complained.

[Gandhi]

These kind of arguments should really be left out. You aren't qualified, nor familiar with their engine, to judge how easily such things can be implemented. This argument style has also been frowned upon in numerous other threads since it can apply to anything added to the game whether you support it or not.
Normally I'd agree with you, but in this case it's obvious. Animations are always time consuming and collision testing for body parts is a common problem with prone in any game, it's not something you just throw in at the end of the development cycle.

[Stew]

I worry about two main things with prone.

First is chokepoints. I see 3 or 4 guys in a stairway laying prone. They do .

the utility grenade will have no ressource cost but a cool down time like smoke flash emp etc..

so a flash grenade in a room full of camper will do the job or a smoke screen as well smoke screen thermal vision their is a lots of combo you can make alos MAX or GL many many thing and the exact same thing will happen with corner camper while stand up or crouch the prone have so not make it more complicated or less complicated in a room clearing senario !

[Khrusky]

I worry about two main things with prone.

First is chokepoints. I see 3 or 4 guys in a stairway laying prone. They do this in a manner that allows them to shoot down the stairs while only having maybe 10% of the body exposed to enemy fire. As such 3 guys (4 if you have a medic) can hold off 10-20 people. This is mostly caused by you being prone and getting lots of cover, and lots of accuracy to shoot at the enemies. While the enemy is denied any cover and loses accuracy since they are moving.
Good tactic? You bet. frustrating as hell to the average gamer? You bet.

The same situation with crouchers, and you can hold off maybe 6-10 people. the amount of extra trouble prone causes to attackers is where most of the issue is. Many gamers can't stand it and most won't care as much that it is gone.

Second scenario. Snipers. Lots of rock and cover out there to snipe from. That's with crouching. Add prone and that locations jump by 100% or more. Very difficult for people to spot and work out where you are. Especially without kill cams. Add a little cloak for movement between sniping spots. A good sniper will be damn near unkillable.

Of course most gamers hate snipers since you get the feeling of having no recourse to fight back as you are not as accurate at range as they are, and you have a hard time locating them in the brush, especially with camo, cloak, and prone.

Both of these situations exist in game currently with crouch. With prone the issue goes up by a lot.

The answer of use grenades and AOE weapons is not as good as it was in PS1. The Devs have stated they are working to reduce AOE use and spamming. Hence the reason grenades cost resources. We don't have the rocklet or thumper.

Also the other rocket/ grenade weapons are AV weapons on MAXs. And from the E3 feeds you can see they reduced the damage those do to infantry. Most maxes died to regular soldiers when using AV against them. So those are not going to help break such choke point scenarios.

Most of these issues will happen in buildings and base fights. You can't call in much help from air when you are in a bunker. They only real hope is breaking these setups with MAXs.

I don't have a decent fix with snipers. The only sniper who would be caught is a static sniper. If he moves every min or two, he will be difficult to take out.

Most of what people want prone for can be accomplished by crouch and little higher cover then in most games. However prone opens a new level of power and use that can overbalance a game in one way or another.

One point I would make on prone and LAs. Sure using prone takes away the ability to jump jet. However, the places they can get to and then go prone at increases. This can make it impossible for anyone but another LA to get to that location to sneak up on them or take them out.

I remember BF3 fights I left after being sniped again and again by someone in a building that I had no way to get to and couldn't shoot at. He had the height for more field of fire, he had open ground to kill me in if I tried to cross the distance, He was hard to locate as to which building he was in. With as open as Planetside is, I don't want to make you average, low skilled player to be easy kills to the point they just say forget it an leave.



Grenades. they may not be as spammable as they were in PS1 but I'm pretty sure at least one of those 10 guys would be able to throw a decent grenade at the immobile prone players.
Aircraft or thermal sights. Or even roaming light vehicles. Snipers that are that careful will also be killing a lot less people than the slight risk-takers. They pay the price for being careful and they should be rewarded for that.

Your comments at the end don't require the sniper to be prone. He was probably crouching and moving after each shot if you couldn't work out what building he was in.

[TheInferno]

the utility grenade will have no ressource cost but a cool down time like smoke flash emp etc..

Grenades cost resources period.

[mirwalk]

the utility grenade will have no ressource cost but a cool down time like smoke flash emp etc..

so a flash grenade in a room full of camper will do the job or a smoke screen as well smoke screen thermal vision their is a lots of combo you can make alos MAX or GL many many thing and the exact same thing will happen with corner camper while stand up or crouch the prone have so not make it more complicated or less complicated in a room clearing senario !

My understanding is all the grenades cost resources. I am not aware of any utility whenever grenade.
As for smoke, doesn't matter if there is a choke point. Just fill the area with lead and watch them drop. You are keeping the kill area small for a reason. Mostly doorways. See smoke? Start firing.
GL? Grenade launcher? What the single shot one under your gun? There is no mulitshot grenade launcher in the game like the Thumper. As I said in my post add in the medic and you will have a hard time ending the group holding you off.

[Khrusky]

Yeah I do agree; as I said before, adding it would be easier than removing it with regards to player reaction.

[Khrusky]

GL? Grenade launcher? What the single shot one under your gun? There is no mulitshot grenade launcher in the game like the Thumper. As I said in my post add in the medic and you will have a hard time ending the group holding you off.

So get everyone to throw grenades, is that really impossible?

[mirwalk]

@Khrusky
Yeah as I said everything you do with prone can be done with crouch. Prone just makes things twice as hard for people on the other end.
Depending on the scenario it could be an attacker (open areas) or a defender (closed areas).

A proper squad using tactics, armed with prone and voice chat in game? Will be nigh unstoppable defenders. With crouch they will be very good defenders. It is a matter of degree, one which I think prone in certain situations moves a bit to far and thus would be better left out of the game then in it.

[Stew]

Grenades cost resources period.

utility grenade NO

offensive grenade yes

theyre will be a utility slot for equipments and also a offensive slot

Offensive = C4 or frag grenade or anything thats can hurt

Utility = flash grenade , emp grenade , healing grenade , revive grenade , smoke grenade ,

all the utility was suposed to be based on a cooldown not on ressource wich offensive Grenade and c4 will cost ressources

[maradine]

You don't need a multi-shot grenade launcher to scatter your hypothetical love nest. You need 2 or 3 guys with pineapples.

Since when was it a problem that a prepared strong point was difficult to crack without coordination?

[mirwalk]

So get everyone to throw grenades, is that really impossible?

it would be difficult with choke points. You step out to throw and get blocked by another player, you die. One guy misthrows and it bounces near the door, you get a breakup of the attackers and maybe some casualities.

You are also assuming a grenade lading close to a heavy will kill him if at full health, cause with a medic that is who will be up there.

As I just posted and you probably haven't read yet. Its a matter of degree. A line I think shouldn't be crossed. But as I posted earlier, once in the game I can almost guarantee it won't be removed, unless it just breaks the game.

[TheInferno]

utility grenade NO

offensive grenade yes

theyre will be a utility slot for equipments and also a offensive slot

Offensive = C4 or frag grenade or anything thats can hurt

Utility = flash grenade , emp grenade , healing grenade , revive grenade , smoke grenade ,

all the utility was suposed to be based on a cooldown not on ressource wich offensive Grenade and c4 will cost ressources

You got a source for this? Because I have not heard anything other than "grenades cost resources"

[mirwalk]

You have some valid tactics, FOR SKILLED PLAYERS. Half of the population is not skilled players. These are the newbies and zerg. And you need them for PS2 to be successful.
I don't want them all to be chased off by being decimated by skilled players who can work things to a T. Should they be outclassed? hell yes! but in situations like I outlined you just get to the point you drive those people away.

[PsychoXR-20]

The simple fact is PS1 did just fine without prone. PS2 has been developed from the ground up without prone, so we can conclude that PS2 will do just fine without prone.


And the bottom line is that in spite of what the subject of this thread says - no, the game does not need prone. It can and will be successful without it, and prone is a threat to the gameplay that we know we like. There's been enough poor gameplay as a result of prone in the past that the risk vs reward for prone is not even remotely worth it.

This is probably the best argument for no prone. We know that the PS gameplay works without prone. Adding prone has a much higher chance of being devastating to the game play than it does adding to the gameplay.

[captainkapautz]

You have some valid tactics, FOR SKILLED PLAYERS. Half of the population is not skilled players. These are the newbies and zerg. And you need them for PS2 to be successful.
I don't want them all to be chased off by being decimated by skilled players who can work things to a T. Should they be outclassed? hell yes! but in situations like I outlined you just get to the point you drive those people away.

There is a point where you have to stop catering to noobs, either learn to throw grenades or accept that there are situations where you will be curbstomped.

[Stew]

You got a source for this? Because I have not heard anything other than "grenades cost resources"

yes actually i have one



http://youtu.be/x0Gwu9Ssk8E?t=26m45s

[mirwalk]

There is a point where you have to stop catering to noobs, either learn to throw grenades or accept that there are situations where you will be curbstomped.

My situation with crouch will curbstomp noobs currently. I feel prone curbstomps, your average standard skill player.

[PsychoXR-20]

yes actually i have one



http://youtu.be/x0Gwu9Ssk8E?t=26m45s

No where in that did he say that utility grenades were free. Utility grenades were equippable, while the others were quick throw.

[Stew]

No where in that did he say that utility grenades were free. Utility grenades were equippable, while the others were quick throw.

yeah they said it somewhere in that cast i do not remeber exactly where lisen to it and youll find it i have a good memory about feature but not enough to remeber on a 50 minute webcast where exactly lol

but you can trust me they said thats utility was suposed to be cooldown and offensive was suposed to be ressource base at this time if it as change i did not see the change anywhere

so from since i did not see it been change it must be the same so a cool down timer

[Khrusky]

@Khrusky
Yeah as I said everything you do with prone can be done with crouch. Prone just makes things twice as hard for people on the other end.
Depending on the scenario it could be an attacker (open areas) or a defender (closed areas).

A proper squad using tactics, armed with prone and voice chat in game? Will be nigh unstoppable defenders. With crouch they will be very good defenders. It is a matter of degree, one which I think prone in certain situations moves a bit to far and thus would be better left out of the game then in it.

Only when you're trying to out-shoot them. Someone attacking you from a hidden location is just as hard to find if they dive back behind a wall after every shot and keeps changing location as someone who uses prone (probably more so).
Crucially, counter-camper tactics are unaffected by prone as they rely on getting into very close range anyway.

Again, I think that prone only helps if you're trying to out-shoot rather than out-manoeuvre them. well-co-ordinated squads are always great, but that squad of prone defenders won't be able to stop a wing of aircraft bombing the bejeezus out of their hidey-hole. Cracking defences is a well-known skill.

I will agree that for people playing defensive roles properly, prone is a benefit to them because it will mean that they're harder to initially spot. However, there are plenty of counters to this. Guys with thermal sights would be one. Prone players are not unstoppable.

it would be difficult with choke points. You step out to throw and get blocked by another player, you die. One guy misthrows and it bounces near the door, you get a breakup of the attackers and maybe some casualities.

You are also assuming a grenade lading close to a heavy will kill him if at full health, cause with a medic that is who will be up there.

Well if you can bounce grenades around corners then in many cases you may be able to throw grenades in without any risk to yourself. I was thinking of people rotaiting in so that all 5 of you throw your grenades within a couple of seconds. As long as the first person's grenade is pretty good, considering prone players are such easy targets for AoE at least one of them will have to move to avoid the blast, which makes every subsequent throw easier. Alternatively MAXs? We know they won't be able to prone.

[TheInferno]

No where in that did he say that utility grenades were free. Utility grenades were equippable, while the others were quick throw.

Exactly. Unless your time stamp is wrong, that's not proof at all.

[mirwalk]

I've said my piece. No clue how good frags are and my situation could be amped up. 3 prones, 3 maxes standing up shooting over their heads. a medic and and engin. revive the down people while maxes finish off the stormers.

Its all about a matter of degree. I think prone will just take some situations to far for little improvement in gameplay in other situations. as some people point out you can pull off other stuff the same without prone, so it doesn't mean prone needs to be added.

[Khrusky]

You have some valid tactics, FOR SKILLED PLAYERS. Half of the population is not skilled players. These are the newbies and zerg. And you need them for PS2 to be successful.
I don't want them all to be chased off by being decimated by skilled players who can work things to a T. Should they be outclassed? hell yes! but in situations like I outlined you just get to the point you drive those people away.

A fair point. However, I'm hoping that the skilled players make a concerted effort to actually take out the biggest threats and have people from their side hunt down the enemy players who are just using zerg-annihilating tactics so that they minimise the damage done to their team.

Admittedly it could devolve into good players annihilating all the bad players on the other's team and having implicit non-aggression pacts with the other teams good players, but this would screw things up and drive players away even if you just had all the good players doing a liberator/interceptor combo. Prone doesn't change this.

[mirwalk]

most choke point issues are going to be in building, and as the buildings are not destructible air craft have no impact on that. Some buildings are small enough to do that, really won't know till having a run through on beta.

[Retaliation]

Oh. Is it a reference I'm not getting?

Are you arguing that prone isn't useful? It seems counter-intuitive but it's what your argument seems to suggest. I will respond as if it is.
Prone is just another trade-off, like they've been going on about on the cert topic. Less mobility for more accuracy and smaller front hit box. Prone can be used very effectively to ensure that they can't be killed too easily while sniping by the people they're trying to snipe. That's just one example. It has simple counters though, so it it just a trade-off rather than a straight advantage. Prone isn't - and shouldn't be considered - useful indoors.

Again, what I said before: if the guy wasn't going to move before, how does the game become staler because instead of standing still he's sitting?

Na I was just trying to come up with a simpler way of saying prone favoring posters without it being condescending.

Ironically saying prone wouldn't be useful in the type of gameplay planetside embodies is close to what I'm trying to get at. Movement is king, and the moment you stop you're going to get bullets lodged in your skull. For prone to be useful you would have to provide more than usual benefits to it. I -and probably many others- am not comfortable with trying out prone when it doesn't seem compatible with the way I hope the game is going to be played (moderate arcade).

There is also a really subtle and quite easy to miss point about prone promoting standing still when they're going to stand still anyway. If made to be useful, prone just gives them advantages they shouldn't have in a game of movement. It's essentially unintentional exploiting of a mechanic that is otherwise pretty solid. RTS players hate base turtles for the same reason because you're either going to break them hard after a disproportionate time investment, or they'll win despite being completely passive until their push at the end. It's not so much the fact that they're defending that makes people angry, but that they're obstructive/winning despite putting forth far less effort. In the case of RTS it's because base defenses can't move so they're given high returns on investment compared to normal units. Unless you can prevent people from delaying the inevitable (or actually winning) despite not knowing what they're doing, it's just going to cause more problems than it solves.

P.S. nonsense like dolphin diving is exactly the kind of thing that would allow prone to be a viable move yet remain fairly weak.
P.P.S. I have no idea how much this will make sense to others.

[Stew]

http://youtu.be/x0Gwu9Ssk8E?t=31m34s

higby said something important about the gameplay

[Stew]

Na I was just trying to come up with a simpler way of saying prone favoring posters without it being condescending.

Ironically saying prone wouldn't be useful in the type of gameplay planetside embodies is close to what I'm trying to get at. Movement is king, and the moment you stop you're going to get bullets lodged in your skull. .

Where di you take thats Prone = stationary target ?

iam a runner and gunner no way nears a non mooving players and i use prone to rush properly even more been prone is for a few secons time to reload to get a cover use terrain

why you guys keep saying the same thing who is no where near the truth if you dont use prone while rushing objective or base you probably die a way more than your suposed to

Prone do not mean sit on the ground and camp its getting ridicoulous

[TheInferno]

Deleted

[Revanmug]

Lets make a list here. You pro prone folks have 24 hours to give proper arguments against the points made on the list. go!


1. Cloakers and PRone. Imagine a Infiltrator going up to a good spot, proning and cloaking. He sits there cloaked, shoots, and cloaks again. There is literally nothing you can do against him, as he got a extremly low profile...

How did you plan on Killing an infiltrator going up to a good spot, crouching and cloaking anyway? Do you really think people are going to stand in the open and snipe?! Prone or crouch, any people with a brain with place himself so only his head pop out.

Depending on the mechanic of sniper (we heard there will be a hold breath) and would be proning , going on your belly could be the most stupid thing as the player would be a sitting duck with no mobility compare to crouch. Prone doesn't change the fact that if only your head is visible, any hit is a certain HS and leave the sniper no possibility to pack up and go. I know BF comparaison are annoying but alot of mechanic seems quite close of it and IF they are close and IF prone is in... Enjoy proning on your mountain hill. Counter sniping is always easier on immobile/no mobility target. And we are not even putting vehicule in that.

2. Medics/engis and Prone. They simply chill behind, absolutly save from direct fire, and heal the guys up front.

I would just point out that you could possibly already do that with crouch. Hell even standing up if we factor structure corners in this. Prone would simply increase the number of places.

I will go with Beta on that. Why? Because I have very curious on how large/deadly AoE weapon are. Rocket launcher, grenade, tank round et aircraft can make this tactic completly not working.

It could also be OMGWTFBROKENQQ and you would have a point.

3. Light assault and Prone: Would completly deny them the use of jumpjets, making the whole thing a rather nasty tradeoff. Mobolity is key for them, making prone absolutly useless for Light assault.

I don't see the problem or what you mean. Are you against tradeoff? If a light infantry go prone, yeah, he shouldn't be able to jet pack until he is standing. The LA has more possibility on how to avoid fire but can't use them both at the same time. What's wrong with that? Sorry if I missunderstand.

4. Defending and prone: Have fun trying to break a line of people just proning everywhere. Its almost impssible.

How? Did you saw that in PS? Oh wait, there wasn't any prone in that game. In BF3 or CoD? I can say the opposite and we would be at the back at the starting point. We have 20 page of that exact bickering already... Not your brightest point...

5. The zerg and prone: In planetside, heck, no, in EVERY game you have the problem that people are afraid of dying. Instead of Rushing, they just chill and wait around the corner. With prone, they have even less reason to move, as they have a smaller chance of killing a dude if they hop around the corner due to low profile, have more enemys shooting at them as prone allows 2 people behind one another to fire at you, and on top of that even gives a damn good reason not to move at all in the first place. The zerg would be proning EVERYWHERE, making Infantary engagments the most boring expirience ever.

This is just a copy paste of your awesome number 4. What the eck should I say? Nothing I could say would change your stand when it is nothing but a rambling of opinion. Yes there are people that like camping. You are right! So what? Why care? Staying immobile is the most stupid thing when we have over 100 on each side shooting each other with gun/tank and aircraft. Maybe you mean inside base infantry only? Well, I fell like grenade and max should do the job because that's where they should excel. Once more... Beta so I can see and feel how it works before standing or changing my opinion.

BF3 has a much faster experience making proning player usually a very easy target if you have any kind of awereness and experience on the few one pony trick hiding spot that you learn to remember. PS was different combat but guess what, there wasn't any prone in PS so nobody can talk from experience and even less make conclusion on a game that nobody has play.

Try to give arguments against these. I know you wont...

I know that I don't care about prone, at all, as long as the game is amazing as it look like. But I can tell you this. Most people complaning just talk from a few experience with some baddies that went a dark corner and wait. Prone or not, the same baddies will still be there, in their dark corner.

Usually, the best use of prone is largely ignored and it's to avoid being hit in a firefight. get shot at? hit the deck beind the small concret wall when get ready to fire back at them back and forth.

Again, My opinion will depend on the environment and how is crouch. If crouch is low enough to hide you completly when needed, then you don't need prone. But really, I have some doubt.

/END wallOfText

[mirwalk]

yes actually i have one



http://youtu.be/x0Gwu9Ssk8E?t=26m45s

Watched the whole video for anyone saying a utility grenade doesn't cost resources. No where in the video was that mentioned. So as far as I have seen ALL grenades cost resources.

Right before they started speaking about grenades he was talking about the medic's AOE heal and possible AOE revive abilities. Not grenades. They currently have a revive grenade but as seen in the stream the medic has an AOE heal ability like the cloak or jump jets.

[Retaliation]

Where di you take thats Prone = stationary target ?

iam a runner and gunner no way nears a non mooving players and i use prone to rush properly even more been prone is for a few secons time to reload to get a cover use terrain

why you guys keep saying the same thing who is no where near the truth if you dont use prone while rushing objective or base you probably die a way more than your suposed to

Prone do not mean sit on the ground and camp its getting ridicoulous

Even if you move, shoot, and retain full ability to maneuver, you're still going to be moving far slower than someone running. I don't know about you, but years of playing games where I have to both lead and track a players movements has given me the ability to pretty much instantly track a slow moving player's head. From my perspective even prone moving isn't going to be able to stop me from getting headshots.

[basti]

Thing is: I have seen what happens if a organised group starts going en masse into a game with prone. IN BF1942, there was this one match on a 64 players server. We had about 20 of us on TS, the enemy had about 14 on TS. Ignoring the randoms completly, we came into the situation where they held a point by having people prone all over the place. We went in there on foot, all 25, and got shot to shreds as we didnt knew they where there. We tried again, now knowing whats going on, and got a few, but also died completly again. Tried using air and tanks to keep em busy, but didnt got any of those, and ended up fighting with the randoms. So we went to our randoms, massed them up, and charged in there with 30 of us while the enemy randoms just took a point from us. Our randoms went into the middle as a diversion and got shot to pieces, while us 20 went around, taking them one by one. We got 5 before we were all dead.

For the rest of the match, we tried to get them out of there, and simply didnt manage to. They did not move, they simply stayed the entire time where they where, covering each other.

Would it be any different without prone? Yes, because its much more likley to hit someone on long range if he is only crouching.


Just trust me, ive been playing FPS since Doom itself. Prone is just as quick kniving something that does not really improve a game. Both once came into FPS games simply because they could put them in there, and never left again because other devs saw those featers as something gamers want, while its mostly not the case. Yet, Prone is absolutly fine in a Low TTK game like COD or BF3, but the higher the TTK is, the more unbalanced prone is. It simply should not be in PS2, as it would annoy more than it would improve the game.


Actually, yes. Someone tell me how exactly prone improved the BF series, or any other game. Tell me the exact reason why you folks want prone.

[captainkapautz]

Thing is: I have seen what happens if a organised group starts going en masse into a game with prone. IN BF1942, there was this one match on a 64 players server. We had about 20 of us on TS, the enemy had about 14 on TS. Ignoring the randoms completly, we came into the situation where they held a point by having people prone all over the place. We went in there on foot, all 25, and got shot to shreds as we didnt knew they where there. We tried again, now knowing whats going on, and got a few, but also died completly again. Tried using air and tanks to keep em busy, but didnt got any of those, and ended up fighting with the randoms. So we went to our randoms, massed them up, and charged in there with 30 of us while the enemy randoms just took a point from us. Our randoms went into the middle as a diversion and got shot to pieces, while us 20 went around, taking them one by one. We got 5 before we were all dead.

For the rest of the match, we tried to get them out of there, and simply didnt manage to. They did not move, they simply stayed the entire time where they where, covering each other.

Would it be any different without prone? Yes, because its much more likley to hit someone on long range if he is only crouching.


Just trust me, ive been playing FPS since Doom itself. Prone is just as quick kniving something that does not really improve a game. Both once came into FPS games simply because they could put them in there, and never left again because other devs saw those featers as something gamers want, while its mostly not the case. Yet, Prone is absolutly fine in a Low TTK game like COD or BF3, but the higher the TTK is, the more unbalanced prone is. It simply should not be in PS2, as it would annoy more than it would improve the game.


Actually, yes. Someone tell me how exactly prone improved the BF series, or any other game. Tell me the exact reason why you folks want prone.

Your reasoning is just as bad as Stews is.

"Prone won't work, because I have seen it not work in another game!"
vs.
"Prone works, because I have seen it work in another game."

Both your arguements are pretty much just your opinions.

If, like Clegg said, the devs put in prone, then and ONLY then can you both "prove" your arguements.

Before that, you can't.

[PsychoXR-20]

Where di you take thats Prone = stationary target ?

iam a runner and gunner no way nears a non mooving players and i use prone to rush properly even more been prone is for a few secons time to reload to get a cover use terrain

why you guys keep saying the same thing who is no where near the truth if you dont use prone while rushing objective or base you probably die a way more than your suposed to

Prone do not mean sit on the ground and camp its getting ridicoulous

This is exactly why prone should not be in this game. What you are calling tactics are just super lame gameplay. Players running, dolphin diving, running dolphin diving. It's shit gameplay in CoD, it's shit gameplay in Battlefield and it would be shit gameplay in PlanetSide.

I'll tell you what. Let's make prone a three second "deply" and a three second recovery (to simiulate getting down, and getting up). You must remain stationary to go prone. You move at a pace that would make a snail sleepy and you have a 10, maybe 15 degree firing arc (since your grasp on the English language appears lacking that means you can look roughly 10 degrees to your left, 10 degrees to your right, 10 degrees up and 10 degrees down).

Anything other than this and all you are doing in encouraging the above mentioned shit gameplay that we see players "utlize" in CoD and Battlefield.

[Malorn]

If, like Clegg said, the devs put in prone, then and ONLY then can you both "prove" your arguements.

Before that, you can't.

Wait, I've heard this argument before...

Pelosi: "We Have to Pass the Bill So That You Can Find Out What Is In It" - YouTube

[Verruna]

Your reasoning is just as bad as Stews is.

"Prone won't work, because I have seen it not work in another game!"
vs.
"Prone works, because I have seen it work in another game."

Both your arguements are pretty much just your opinions.

If, like Clegg said, the devs put in prone, then and ONLY then can you both "prove" your arguements.

Before that, you can't.

Counter-prone opinions carry much heavier cons than pro-prone opinions carry heavy benefit or even purpose. Obviously got to wait till beta until anything gets done regardless.

[mirwalk]

Wait, I've heard this argument before...

Pelosi: "We Have to Pass the Bill So That You Can Find Out What Is In It" - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hV-05TLiiLU)

that is just ouch....

Kinda why I said earlier in the thread. Once prone exists in game it will be like pulling teeth to get rid of it. The mechanic would have to near break the game to get rid of it. If it just makes the game a little worse and cause more frustration then joy, it will remain since a vocal minority will demand it.

[Malorn]

Once prone exists in game it will be like pulling teeth to get rid of it. The mechanic would have to near break the game to get rid of it. If it just makes the game a little worse and cause more frustration then joy, it will remain since a vocal minority will demand it.

Just look to BFRs for that one. They added those in, broke the game, took a long time to make them reasonably balanced, and they are still in there and have fundamentally changed PlanetSide for the worse.

Prone would have a similar fundamental change to PlanetSide gameplay and as most people agree, it won't be for the betterment of the game.

From what I see it's about five vocal people who are on the must-have-prone crusade. Poll shows it isn't what a super majority of players want.

[captainkapautz]

Wait, I've heard this argument before...

Pelosi: "We Have to Pass the Bill So That You Can Find Out What Is In It" - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hV-05TLiiLU)

So apparently both parties are right then?

Or are both wrong?

Did you play PS2 with prone yet?

Do tell if it works or not.

[Khrusky]

Na I was just trying to come up with a simpler way of saying prone favoring posters without it being condescending.

Ironically saying prone wouldn't be useful in the type of gameplay planetside embodies is close to what I'm trying to get at. Movement is king, and the moment you stop you're going to get bullets lodged in your skull. For prone to be useful you would have to provide more than usual benefits to it. I -and probably many others- am not comfortable with trying out prone when it doesn't seem compatible with the way I hope the game is going to be played (moderate arcade).

There is also a really subtle and quite easy to miss point about prone promoting standing still when they're going to stand still anyway. If made to be useful, prone just gives them advantages they shouldn't have in a game of movement. It's essentially unintentional exploiting of a mechanic that is otherwise pretty solid. RTS players hate base turtles for the same reason because you're either going to break them hard after a disproportionate time investment, or they'll win despite being completely passive until their push at the end. It's not so much the fact that they're defending that makes people angry, but that they're obstructive/winning despite putting forth far less effort. In the case of RTS it's because base defenses can't move so they're given high returns on investment compared to normal units. Unless you can prevent people from delaying the inevitable (or actually winning) despite not knowing what they're doing, it's just going to cause more problems than it solves.

P.S. nonsense like dolphin diving is exactly the kind of thing that would allow prone to be a viable move yet remain fairly weak.
P.P.S. I have no idea how much this will make sense to others.

It feels like we're reaching the heart of the issue here as I'm finding these points more and more valid as we progress. I am tired though so I will respond tomorrow, If you can bear to continue this drawn-out affair.

[Malorn]

So apparently both parties are right then?

Or are both wrong?

Did you play PS2 with prone yet?

Do tell if it works or not.

I'm gifted with the ability to understand the impact of most things without having to see them implemented first. It's why I get paid the big bucks!

[captainkapautz]

I'm gifted with the ability to understand the impact of things without having to see them implemented first. It's why I get paid the big bucks!

Yeah, thought so.

Maybe you and Stew should team up, you both seem to be really good at this.

[maradine]

Just trust me, ive been playing FPS since Doom itself.

This doesn't count for much around here. If I still have my original 520ST and a copy of MIDI Maze, is my opinion more valid than yours? Could I ask you to "just trust me"? Would you listen?

Actually, yes. Someone tell me how exactly prone improved the BF series, or any other game. Tell me the exact reason why you folks want prone.

I feel like you're not trying at this point, which is unfortunate, because you're a moderator and I have a great deal of respect for the staff here. Do I have to dredge back through 50 pages and provide you quotations? I can do that. I'm usually not the first to assume bad faith, why start now.

Exact reasons folks want prone:

1. It adds a layer of tactical flexibility.
2. It is internally consistent with a firefight narrative.
3. It has been used in prior games to good effect.
4. It is an expected feature in newer games.

You don't have to like any or all of those. Not all of them are held by all of the commenters, and not all of them are equally applicable. However, you do have to acknowledge that they exist, and that they aren't waved away with the twin fallacies of "you obviously didn't play much PS1" and "prone ruins games." Bad implementations ruin games. We want a good implementation. This is the time to ask for one and argue over its nature.

For the record, I also gave you a well-reasoned reply to your 5 bullet list. I don't feel like this conversation should keep respawning from zero.

[mirwalk]

You don't have to like any or all of those. Not all of them are held by all of the commenters, and not all of them are equally applicable. However, you do have to acknowledge that they exist, and that they aren't waved away with the twin fallacies of "you obviously didn't play much PS1" and "prone ruins games." Bad implementations ruin games. We want a good implementation. This is the time to ask for one and argue over its nature.

For the record, I also gave you a well-reasoned reply to your 5 bullet list. I don't feel like this conversation should keep respawning from zero.

I have outlined the reasons I think Prone will harm gameplay. What would need to be changed via implementation to counter act that?

[Malorn]

Yeah, thought so.

Maybe you and Stew should team up, you both seem to be really good at this.

No, Stew looks at random youtube videos and makes wild generalizations.

Believe it or not, it is possible to have an understanding about how something will work before building it. It's called design. It involves leveraging knowledge from other domains to make reasonable predictions. Tough concepts, I know.

[captainkapautz]

No, Stew looks at random youtube videos and makes wild generalizations.

Believe it or not, it is possible to have an understanding about how something will work before building it. It's called design. It involves leveraging knowledge from other domains to make reasonable predictions. Tough concepts, I know.

So why aren't you on the PS2-devteam, yet?

Looks like you know your shit so much more than they do.

[Zar]

I actual voted no on this but having thought about it if two things happened it would be ok 1 no dolphin diving aka it takes 2-3 secs to go prone in a animation and inless you have sniper rifle infiltrator's can't use it sorry cloakers are tough as is to deal with and see i don't want a prone crawling cloaker >.< .... actual thinking about it just now prone turns you into a turret you can't move you can pan left to right but no going back or forward XD done so those 3 things ill vote yes otherwise exploits are HUGE for that played BF and cod till 3 and black ops in cod cause they sucked Really bad cause this stuff just went out of control

[TheInferno]

Well, we've gone from beating a dead horse and it looks like we're getting closer to insults now.

Can we just calm down? Please?

[captainkapautz]

Well, we've gone from beating a dead horse and it looks like we're getting closer to insults now.

Can we just calm down? Please?

You looking for a fight, buddy?

Huh? Are you?

I bet you are.

[maradine]

I have outlined the reasons I think Prone will harm gameplay. What would need to be changed via implementation to counter act that?

You've been active today, so you'll have to forgive and correct me if I'm addressing the wrong points.

First is chokepoints. I see 3 or 4 guys in a stairway laying prone. They do this in a manner that allows them to shoot down the stairs while only having maybe 10% of the body exposed to enemy fire. As such 3 guys (4 if you have a medic) can hold off 10-20 people. This is mostly caused by you being prone and getting lots of cover, and lots of accuracy to shoot at the enemies. While the enemy is denied any cover and loses accuracy since they are moving.
Good tactic? You bet. frustrating as hell to the average gamer? You bet.


Small groups in good defensive positions should be able to hold off numerically superior numbers until their consumables are exhausted or the assaulting team makes a coordinated push. Getting hypothetical about the numbers involved is pointless without a model. I don't see this as an issue.


Second scenario. Snipers. Lots of rock and cover out there to snipe from. That's with crouching. Add prone and that locations jump by 100% or more. Very difficult for people to spot and work out where you are. Especially without kill cams. Add a little cloak for movement between sniping spots. A good sniper will be damn near unkillable.

From the perspective of his target, yes. He will be. From the perspective of his target's friends, the local air cover, and counter-snipers, this is not the case. There will be situations where you are effectively helpless. This is one of them. Then you avoid them. Should a good sniper be able to affect area denial until he's located and bounced? Yes, I believe this to be true.

In summary:

MAX Crashes, Grenades, Coordination.

What else were we on about?

[mirwalk]

As I was saying with Krusty each of these things can be handled by crouching. I feel with prone you take it to a higher level then needed, to where it causes frustration for your average player. I see you feel my points are invalid and do not need to be taken into consideration, besides a play better standpoint.

[Malorn]

So why aren't you on the PS2-devteam, yet?

Looks like you know your shit so much more than they do.

I know you're being sarcastic due to not having a response, but I've considered applying, and I'm certainly qualified, but I chose not to.

1) I don't want to live in California, a horribly mismanaged draconian state. I'd have to give up or move away some of my firearms, I hate the area, I hate west coast hippies, and I don't like the climate.

2) They wont' pay me what I'm worth. Game industry has terrible salaries thanks to tons of kids being willing to work for dirt-cheap to do their dream job.

3) A video game is not how I wish to apply my skills. I want something more impactful to the world.

4) I'm perfectly happy where I am now. Life is good.

5) I'd lose money on my house selling it to move now and I'd rather not do that.

6) Video game industry is not good job security.

7) Unwise given state of economy, etc.

8) Wife has a good job here and living apart is not an option, nor is her giving up her job so I could take a pay cut working on a game.


There's more reasons but I'm sure you get the idea.


The biggest reason not to have prone from a design perspective is risk vs reward. Prone is a risky change that could have significant impact to the game. The reward for adding it is not great. It isn't a differentiator, isn't a killer feature. So it's a big gamble and a big cost to invest the resources into making it and your payout if you win is low. It's a simple business decision. They'd have more clear benefit from investing resources in effort in other things with less risk to the product.

[Resolve]

So why aren't you on the PS2-devteam, yet?

Looks like you know your shit so much more than they do.

Lol dude do you have a brain? Do you have the ability to use logic? If so you should be able to understand that it IS possible to understand that prone will not work in a game like this.

Tell me, what does prone add to benefit gameplay? Keep in mind, this isn't your average twitch shooter/campfest.

I can tell you right now that there is more reason to not add prone than to add prone.

[maradine]

As I was saying with Krusty each of these things can be handled by crouching. I feel with prone you take it to a higher level then needed, to where it causes frustration for your average player. I see you feel my points are invalid and do not need to be taken into consideration, besides a play better standpoint.


I don't think they're invalid at all, and if they didn't need to be taken into consideration, I wouldn't do you the courtesy of quoting and addressing you directly. I think that you are drawing different conclusions from what I hope are similar premises. "handled", "higher level than needed", "average player" - each person here is walking into the argument with big set of embedded assumptions. Some of these are preference, some of these are experience, and some of these are individual tenacity to an argument.

I will happily play a Planetside 2 without prone. I would prefer a Planetside 2 with. The people who hear the four horsemen riding at the mention of one or the other are the people I don't get.

[Stardouser]

From what I see it's about five vocal people who are on the must-have-prone crusade. Poll shows it isn't what a super majority of players want.
For me, this is about the proxy war which prone represents. Your faction wants to prevent people from having certain choices about how to play. Some of you call it camping, others slow gameplay, or whatever else. So let's skip out of the prone debate and look at it this way. Are you so confident that no-prone will solve all the problems you and others have cited that, if prone does not make it into the game, you would guarantee that you won't try to change the game in OTHER ways to try and force people to play your way?

In other words, when people still camp, still snipe effectively, still defend capture point rooms with crouching, etc, will you guarantee that you won't ask for killcam, 3D spotting, sniper scope glint, sniper rifle tracer trails as big as jumbo jet contrails, audiospotting(for who doesn't know, that means the instant you fire a shot you show up on the minimap, line of sight to anyone or not), or anything else designed to prevent people from playing how they want?

Because if we can draw a line in the sand at Prone, and not cross it, then you can have your non-prone PS2.

I will say one thing - if prone encourages camping/overcautious/unaggressive or slow play, so does a low TTK, and I know you've acknowledged that(subject to playing in Beta) the videos show a low TTK. So I know you're seeing the big picture - lets talk the big picture!

[DayOne]

So why aren't I allowed to cinematically approach a ridge on my belly with a sniper rifle?
hmm?

Hmmm?

HMMMM!?



(btw I am generally pro-prone, it adds more tactical gameplay, but I wont go into deep depression if it is not added)

[mirwalk]

didn't mean to come across as snarky. Most people in the thread feel prone is wanted, poll says it isn't. The explanations for most complaints about prone seem to come back to the poster says there are ways to get around it. It comes across as a Learn2Play answer.

Most of the people who want prone says it offers realism and tactical options. When pretty much its used to make a certain playstyle easier.

So at this point I guess its pretty much down to me wanting my playstyle to be ok while the other side feels theirs needs to be done.

[Malorn]

So why aren't I allowed to cinematically approach a ridge on my belly with a sniper rifle?
hmm?

Hmmm?

HMMMM!?
...because it's much better to fly over that ridge in a Galaxy and cinematically hot drop on said ridge?

[Resolve]

So why aren't I allowed to cinematically approach a ridge on my belly with a sniper rifle?
hmm?

Hmmm?

HMMMM!?

Because you can just as easily crouch up. If laying down on a ridge is that "cinematic" for you you're doing it wrong.

[captainkapautz]

The biggest reason not to have prone from a design perspective is risk vs reward. Prone is a risky change that could have significant impact to the game. The reward for adding it is not great. It isn't a differentiator, isn't a killer feature. So it's a big gamble and a big cost to invest the resources into making it and your payout if you win is low. It's a simple business decision. They'd have more clear benefit from investing resources in effort in other things with less risk to the product.

You know, all of that is fine and dandy, BUT it doesn't change the fact that if they wanna try out prone in beta, then they will.

This whole clusterfuck of "PRON WORX CUZ IT WORXED IN SOLITAIRE!" "NO IT DOESDENT CUZ PEPULZ US IT TO CAMP IN MINESWEEPER!" the last, like what 5-10 pages is just completely unnecessary.

Lol dude do you have a brain? Do you have the ability to use logic? If so you should be able to understand that it IS possible to understand that prone will not work in a game like this.

Tell me, what does prone add to benefit gameplay? Keep in mind, this isn't your average twitch shooter/campfest.

I can tell you right now that there is more reason to not add prone than to add prone.

Yeah, good luck trying to convince me with your infailable reasons when I don't really give a shit about if prone is added or not.

[DayOne]

Because you can just as easily crouch up. If laying down on a ridge is that "cinematic" for you you're doing it wrong.

I sigh at you!

*sigh*

...because it's much better to fly over that ridge in a Galaxy and cinematically hot drop on said ridge?

He gets it ^

(if you can't tell I'm not being serious by this point then maybe this will help)

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::r ofl::rofl::rofl:

[Resolve]

You know, all of that is fine and dandy, BUT it doesn't change the fact that if they wanna try out prone in beta, then they will.

This whole clusterfuck of "PRON WORX CUZ IT WORXED IN SOLITAIRE!" "NO IT DOESDENT CUZ PEPULZ US IT TO CAMP IN MINESWEEPER!" the last, like what 5-10 pages is just completely unnecessary.



Yeah, good luck trying to convince me with your infailable reasons when I don't really give a shit about if proneis added or not.

Good response. It's obvious that you don't know why you want prone. :lol:

[mirwalk]

For me, this is about the proxy war which prone represents. Your faction wants to prevent people from having certain choices about how to play. Some of you call it camping, others slow gameplay, or whatever else. So let's skip out of the prone debate and look at it this way. Are you so confident that no-prone will solve all the problems you and others have cited that, if prone does not make it into the game, you would guarantee that you won't try to change the game in OTHER ways to try and force people to play your way?

In other words, when people still camp, still snipe effectively, still defend capture point rooms with crouching, etc, will you guarantee that you won't ask for killcam, 3D spotting, sniper scope glint, sniper rifle tracer trails as big as jumbo jet contrails, audiospotting(for who doesn't know, that means the instant you fire a shot you show up on the minimap, line of sight to anyone or not), or anything else designed to prevent people from playing how they want?

Because if we can draw a line in the sand at Prone, and not cross it, then you can have your non-prone PS2.

I will say one thing - if prone encourages camping/overcautious/unaggressive or slow play, so does a low TTK, and I know you've acknowledged that(subject to playing in Beta) the videos show a low TTK. So I know you're seeing the big picture - lets talk the big picture!

Well don't lump us all in together. I have stated several times I think prone takes a few things a little to far, making combat in certain situations go from tough and rewarding to futile and frustrating.

BTW what is 3D spotting?

[captainkapautz]

sniper rifle tracer trails as big as jumbo jet contrails

Holy shit man, haven't you seen the sniperrifle tracer in the stream?

Like a laserbeam pointing right back where you sit, even empire-colorcoded for convinience.

Good response. It's obvious that you don't know why you want prone. :lol:

If it's so good then you should probably, you know, read it.

[Stardouser]

Well don't lump us all in together. I have stated several times I think prone takes a few things a little to far, making combat in certain situations go from tough and rewarding to futile and frustrating.

BTW what is 3D spotting?

It's where a 3D triangle shows you exactly where to shoot. This thread will explain: http://www.planetside-universe.com/showpost.php?p=725468&postcount=155

Holy shit man, haven't you seen the sniperrifle tracer in the stream?

Like a laserbeam pointing right back where you sit, even empire-colorcoded for convinience.


So that casualization already made it in...

[mirwalk]

3D spotting.. That those little ^ we see above people in the stream? Well the ^ is upside down

[Envenom]

There's been like 15 pages added to this thread since I posted last night. LOL

Prone win.

[captainkapautz]

There's been like 15 pages added to this thread since I posted last night. LOL

Prone stalemate.

FTFY.

[mirwalk]

FTFY.

Poll says different ;)

[McBane]

There's been like 15 pages added to this thread since I posted last night. LOL

Prone win.

Fosure! Mind you, the Mordor Army (core group of old school BF2 vets) is coming to PS2!

[Resolve]

Poll says different ;)

Don't worry about him. There's obviously some sort of mental issue there.:huh::groovy:

[captainkapautz]

Poll says different ;)

As if anyone in here gives a shit about the poll.

If that were the case people would've STFU about it, like what 48 pages ago?

Don't worry about him. There's obviously some sort of mental issue there.:huh::groovy:

Man, I must've really gotten your panties in a bunch.

[Resolve]

As if anyone in here gives a shit about the poll.

If that were the case people would've STFU about it, like what 48 pages ago?

Well we need to drive this issue into the ground. Then there's people like you who think polls don't mean anything and we have to continue arguing. I'm guessing you're a red.

[captainkapautz]

Well we need to drive this issue into the ground. Then there's people like you who think polls don't mean anything and we have to continue arguing. I'm guessing you're a red.

You still don't get it do you?

I. DON'T. GIVE. A. SHIT. ABOUT. IF. PRONE. IS. IN. THE. GAME. OR. NOT.

I joined this clusterfuck of derp to point out that both sides had laughable arguements along the lines of "DIDNT WORK THERE WONT WORK HERE" and "DID WORK THERE WILL WORK HERE".

The anti-prone faction apparently won straight away poll-wise, but just had to keep trollbaiting the other side FOR 50 FUCKING PAGES.

Man, I can not wait to see the amount of RABBLERABBLERABBLE if/when the devs actually DO implement prone for testing in beta.

Will be fucking glorious.

Gotta get some popcorn for that.

[Atheosim]

Yep. Let's see it happen in beta.

[Zar]

You still don't get it do you?

I. DON'T. GIVE. A. SHIT. ABOUT. IF. PRONE. IS. IN. THE. GAME. OR. NOT.

I joined this clusterfuck of derp to point out that both sides had laughable arguements along the lines of "DIDNT WORK THERE WONT WORK HERE" and "DID WORK THERE WILL WORK HERE".

The anti-prone faction apparently won straight away poll-wise, but just had to keep trollbaiting the other side FOR 50 FUCKING PAGES.

Man, I can not wait to see the amount of RABBLERABBLERABBLE if/when the devs actually DO implement prone for testing in beta.

Will be fucking glorious.

Gotta get some popcorn for that.
O.O so much rage >.> <.< want a cookie ill share O.o

[Resolve]

You still don't get it do you?

I. DON'T. GIVE. A. SHIT. ABOUT. IF. PRONE. IS. IN. THE. GAME. OR. NOT.

I joined this clusterfuck of derp to point out that both sides had laughable arguements along the lines of "DIDNT WORK THERE WONT WORK HERE" and "DID WORK THERE WILL WORK HERE".

The anti-prone faction apparently won straight away poll-wise, but just had to keep trollbaiting the other side FOR 50 FUCKING PAGES.

Man, I can not wait to see the amount of RABBLERABBLERABBLE if/when the devs actually DO implement prone for testing in beta.

Will be fucking glorious.

Gotta get some popcorn for that.
:rofl: come at me bro:groovy:

[captainkapautz]

O.O so much rage >.> <.< want a cookie ill share O.o

Gimme that goddamn cookie before I whack it out of you with one of your fricking smilies.

[Zar]

Gimme that goddamn cookie before I whack it out of you with one of your fricking smilies.
*hands angry guy/girl a cookie*........ O.O

[captainkapautz]

*hands angry guy/girl a cookie*........ O.O

Good.
:chomp:

[McBane]

Some demonstration material for disambiguation:

1. From stand into crouch into prone position

http://h3.abload.de/img/crouch-proneldxy.gif

2. Dive into prone position and crawling

http://www.abload.de/img/divevfoq.gif

[Landtank]

As if anyone in here gives a shit about the poll.

If that were the case people would've STFU about it, like what 48 pages ago?



Man, I must've really gotten your panties in a bunch.

The Terran Republic propaganda has gotten to this one.

[captainkapautz]

The devs sure do, and so do A LOT of people. Prone would ruin the flow of the game, theres no arguing that.

Is that why they are willing to test it in beta?

[Landtank]

Is that why they are willing to test it in beta?

Edited my post, but yeah they are willing to test it in beta because only 75% of people voted against it.

[McBane]

Is that why they are willing to test it in beta?

I guess they'll test it bc prone has been sucessfully established in very arcady, action-oriented titles like COD/BF3 as well as in tactical shooter sims like Arma1/2.

[captainkapautz]

Edited my post, but yeah they are willing to test it in beta because only 75% of people voted against it.

Yeah, to bad it can never ever be removed again after adding it.

You know like the killcam.

[McBane]

Edited my post, but yeah they are willing to test it in beta because only 75% of people voted against it.

As a developer you always have to keep up with the current state of the art. Therefore, you try out new features, esp. if they are very well established by the market leaders COD,BF3.
Otherwise, you risk rejection from your target audience.

[mynameismud]

For me, i am not saying how anyone else should feel or think. But for me this isnt something that can be compromised, balanced, or added in to see if it works.

FOR ME, not pushing my opinion on anyone else.

but FOR ME if prone is in any way then i simply wont play the game. If you like prone im happy for ya, im am not trying to tell anyone something they like is bad.

I just do not like it not one bit. Even if the scale, factions, and vehicles come back, if prone is in this no longer seems like planetside to me anymore.

I was fine with everything else they have changed so far, but this feature will make me not play.

I am not saying my thoughts on this should change anyone's opinion cause that would be selfish. I am just saying I am excited for this game cause it is called planetside. If prone is added in it no longer seems like a planetside game to me despite the factions, scale, and vehicles coming back.

If it is added to beta I will give it 3 days to be removed before i sadly go back to TF2.

[indirect]

I love prone, but it's not welcome in Planetside.

[commiedic]

Long topic is long, but here is my reason for having prone in the game and what the animation should be.

Prone is great for snipers and hiding yourself from vehicles. That is why it is so necessary in games like Battlefield. When you have a tank coming by or a helicopter flying overhead crouching just doesn't do the trick when behind cover. Snipers can utilize it to minimize how much of them can be seen. Since they are about getting in vantage points and taking strategic shots. It is a very useful mechanic and I believe it has a place in every FPS especially ones with high powered MAX suits and vehicles.

How should it work? Definitely not like CoD where you instantly faceplant the ground and can shoot while doing it. It should be a "slow" animation. I would like to see a prone animation implemented that goes through crouch first and then goes to prone, but while in animation you can't shoot, throw grenades, sprint, or reload. It is a tactical move. Bind it to the same key as crouch and force a hold crouch action to go to prone that way you are forced to go through the crouch animation before going prone.

[McBane]

Long topic is long, but here is my reason for having prone in the game and what the animation should be.

Prone is great for snipers and hiding yourself from vehicles. That is why it is so necessary in games like Battlefield. When you have a tank coming by or a helicopter flying overhead crouching just doesn't do the trick when behind cover. Snipers can utilize it to minimize how much of them can be seen. Since they are about getting in vantage points and taking strategic shots. It is a very useful mechanic and I believe it has a place in every FPS especially ones with high powered MAX suits and vehicles.

How should it work? Definitely not like CoD where you instantly faceplant the ground and can shoot while doing it. It should be a "slow" animation. I would like to see a prone animation implemented that goes through crouch first and then goes to prone, but while in animation you can't shoot, throw grenades, sprint, or reload. It is a tactical move. Bind it to the same key as crouch and force a hold crouch action to go to prone that way you are forced to go through the crouch animation before going prone.

Agreed. You mean more or less like below (or even slower as in Arma2).


Some demonstration material for disambiguation:

1. From stand into crouch into prone position

http://h3.abload.de/img/crouch-proneldxy.gif

2. Dive into prone position and crawling

http://www.abload.de/img/divevfoq.gif

[commiedic]

Agreed. You mean more or less like below (or even slower as in Arma2).

Well I would say that if it was going to go into development then start out with a more BF3 prone system and definitely keep the delay on shooting again while going into prone, but if that doesn't pan out with the majority of players then move to a more ArmA2 prone system which is a longer animation and delay on shooting than BF3.

A quick swan dive to prone would probably get shunned. Even though most games that have prone have that option. Like ArmA 2 / BF3. Not a huge fan of a quick dive to prone and since most of the community hates prone as it is I just say keep it simple with the slow tactical prone animation for now.

[Stardouser]

Comments removed - test this in beta -that's the only answer.

[The Kush]

ive said it before and ill say it again

HELL NO WE DO NOT NEED PRONE

[fishirboy]

Prone, the main thing, what is prone? Why do people like/hate prone? What makes it balanced? What makes it op? Well my dear PS2 players all you VS are more of a friend then the other scum of the universe, but back to my point :D . Prone is in competitive shooting, the prone position is the position of a shooter lying face down on the ground. It is considered the easiest and most accurate position as the ground provides extra stability. It is the starting position in three positions events.
Prone is the best way to when sniping and closes up, to aim more accurate. The positive things about prone are that your accuracy increases, and you make your self a smaller target to other opponents. It is a way to hit the deck in open fielded positions and no trees and rocks are provided. It works in closed in areas as well, being able to hide behind things that would not be possible crouching or standing.
There are as well flaws to this technique that is used in the battle field. Moving around is painfully slow but yet effective if trying to get under the radar. Rotating around to check your 6's is also hard. Grenades also can kill some one prone because it would take to much time to get up, turn the other way of the explosive, and run far away from it before it explodes.
When prone is announced as a topic many things pop into a persons head, some more then others. Some think prone, bad! Campers, snipers, dolphin dive(my Favorite!), others think prone is good, more places to hide, harder for snipers to hit me, I can take cover!
Then if talking about a game, witch it is mostly about, the word "balance" comes in. If i add this will it be "balanced"? If I take this out will it be "balanced"? Now if the devs were to add prone for good, there would need to be balance for both the hardcore and casual players. In this prone stance, yes prone is able to be added to PS2 but what would have to happen to make it work? Well there would need to be some way to sooth players that they won't have evil, vial, not allowed CAMPERS!!! Because we all know camping is a noobs tactic, right :rofl: ? with the love and hatred for this idea, it's like dark vs light, evil vs good, kind of scenario.
So we need to make it not to good for snipers, and not to evil for dolphin divers. First off, If faced with a camper indoors you have some options, 1 run in and kill him, 2 grenade, 3 go around and flank him. to stop some one from being op in this scenario there would have to be a 1-2 second time to stand, making it almost impossible to get away from the grenade. But to not make it op for the camper because they are allowed to camp, it is a liable tacit! They should be able to through the grenade back, press a button and it can go back. Now for out doors scenario, you should rarely be stopped and standing still, best time for snipers to kill you for being silly. This game is team based so have more then just Rambo on your side. You should have inferred so that you are able to see the sniper, there should be multiple ways to get to him and take him out with ease. For the guys on the ground, when the first shot goes off look around, find out were its coming from, to make the sniper not op (for some people) there should be tests on if matter to have the cloak on when prone, the whole reason for camping far, far away is so that they can't be killed by an assault rifle, they can't be seen and so that there cloak is most effective. The prone position should also stable the gun for more accuracy. Snipers should not be punished for doing this, as the team on the ground you should be able to asses the situation and kill the sniper by hiding, if in a open field, go prone to make the shot harder.

What do you people think about this statement and how it could be changed? :confused:

[fishirboy]

ive said it before and ill say it again

HELL NO WE DO NOT NEED PRONE

need better answer this this smarty, read my post i just did, it explains how prone could be implemented and how it would be balanced.

[captainkapautz]

What do you people think about this statement and how it could be changed? :confused:

Needs a TL;DR.

[fishirboy]

Needs a TL;DR.

tl dr sorry means what...

[Cuross]

Rage rage! Die moar dead horse! :cool:

Lol glad to see most of the arguments are still the same from when I went to bed last night, haha. I still stand by my argument that the mechanic will be more or less forgotten entirely for favor of mobility and only a small percentage of players will actually make the best use of prone. Thus, I'm willing to see it appear in Beta, but then the dev's take a look and when less than 10% of players are ever using the mechanic at any given time, they may decide that it's just not worth investing more time and resources into.

Once again, not to say that it won't have its own tactical advantage, I just feel that they have done a superb job at filling the bases and landscape with more than adequate HEAPS of cover and in such a shifting battlefield with new rocks always coming in to break your old scissors that prone will be more or less dismissed as a combat strategy. Does that mean that no one will be using it? Heck no, I can say that even though I don't think prone will be necessary thus doesn't belong in PS2, I would still use it from time to time when the situation allows. I'm just saying that you have to actively be looking for a situation that allows you to prone, otherwise you're putting yourself into a rather high risk medium/low reward situation.

Anyone know how much glue a dead horse can make? :D

[Resolve]

need better answer this this smarty, read my post i just did, it explains how prone could be implemented and how it would be balanced.

The poll answers the question if we need it or not. Plus, ps1 did just fine without it.

[fishirboy]

The poll answers the question if we need it or not. Plus, ps1 did just fine without it.

It did FINE but it could do BETTER beta waiting time! haha also people can change opinions, if that was added were you could change at any time then what would it then look like?

[McBane]

The poll answers the question if we need it or not. Plus, ps1 did just fine without it.

"Well CS does fine w/o vehicles and a maximum of 32 players. Why change that winning formula?"

That's right, this is a defeatist argument. By that, you will never have any kind of evolution or improvement because everything was so perfect 10 years ago.

[fishirboy]

"Well CS does fine w/o vehicles and a maximum of 32 players. Why change that winning formula?"

That's right, this is a defeatist argument. By that, you will never have any kind of evolution or improvement because everything was so perfect 10 years ago.

dito haha

[Retaliation]

It did FINE but it could do BETTER beta waiting time! haha also people can change opinions, if that was added were you could change at any time then what would it then look like?

Pray tell how prone would significantly change how a game without it would play?

Also be careful about saying people can change opinions, it also means that possibly more people don't want prone.

[Resolve]

"Well CS does fine w/o vehicles and a maximum of 32 players. Why change that winning formula?"

That's right, this is a defeatist argument. By that, you will never have any kind of evolution or improvement because everything was so perfect 10 years ago.

CS does do fine w/o vehicles because it's not that type of game. It's been the most competitive fps since forever. It also does fine without prone. Just adding prone isn't going to evolve anything. If they add prone they have to make it perfect or else it will be abused to hell/not used and a waste of dev time.
PS2 will do fine without prone because it's not that type of game.

[fishirboy]

CS does do fine w/o vehicles because it's not that type of game. It's been the most competitive fps since forever. It also does fine without prone. Just adding prone isn't going to evolve anything. If they add prone they have to make it perfect or else it will be abused to hell/not used and a waste of dev time.
PS2 will do fine without prone because it's not that type of game.

exactly the prone thing comes down to them setting it up to the correct place to not abuses it.

[Capt Mytre]

Prone does not promote camping. Take a look at Bad Company 2. No prone, but the most camping in any Battlefield game to date. It would be foolish not to have prone in a game that is so open and sandbox. If I want to sneak up on an enemy position crawling along the ground, I should be able to.

Fix for dolphin diving is to make guns deviation increase hugely while going prone, making it near impossible to get accurate hits.

I can't see any arguments why it shouldn't be included, but see many for why it should. It appears most of you against it are the old vets. The game needs to change, it can't be PS1, as it wouldn't survive in today's market. Open your minds to the possibilities.

[Stew]

Just look to BFRs for that one. They added those in, broke the game, took a long time to make them reasonably balanced, and they are still in there and have fundamentally changed PlanetSide for the worse.

Prone would have a similar fundamental change to PlanetSide gameplay and as most people agree, it won't be for the betterment of the game.

From what I see it's about five vocal people who are on the must-have-prone crusade. Poll shows it isn't what a super majority of players want.

lol Bfr have been include a while after the ( launch of planetside 1 ) and have nothing to do with the prone ( a standing position ) not a vehicules / weapons thats need to be balance !

have you ever seen in a patchnotes of any games

we will now balance nerf or buff a prone ? They cant fix bug optimize the whole thing lol but balancing prone ...

when you ad new weapons and vehicules in a already launch game its always tricky to come up with a good balanced whiout testing it with a massive number of players to have a sufficient data to balance thing out !

And even if prone was like a weapons the game is not even out yet they will test it in the beta to see actually if it work well or if its to hard to make it work !

2 differents story thats have nothing to do with each others

[Fortress]

Bahahahaahaa.

[Chronic]

Not having prone discourages camping-style gameplay.


People still believe that myth? Adding prone just gives the ability to have better cover.

http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/3115/1307573731251.jpg

[Stew]

Yeah, to bad it can never ever be removed again after adding it.

You know like the killcam.

in BF3 the (( killcam)) arent on most of the time the servers admins allow them or not ;)

[Chronic]

This is not BF3/COD, no prone please.

BF3 and CoD invented prone?

[Stew]

People still believe that myth? Adding prone just gives the ability to have better cover.

http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/3115/1307573731251.jpg

Nice find agains you conter a arguments that a lots of people come with such as Prone will encourage camping lol

these snipers nest in crouch position was more than just usual in many NON prone games ;)

Edit: and if they where prone in this position they arent going to be able to shoot lol only get a cover ;) but in crouch at this spot people just can see their gun because the montainside hide the rest of their body ;) only the deah and the top of the guns are expose

[Phellix]

People still believe that myth? Adding prone just gives the ability to have better cover.

http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/3115/1307573731251.jpg

This is the way it should be, you don't need prone for this.

Stew must have just woken up, because now this thread is going to last another 50 pages because he will post the same useless rant bumping it. Please lock this thread points have been made and it's just going to be arguing and "my opinion is better" attacks.

[fishirboy]

This is the way it should be, you don't need prone for this.

Stew must have just woken up, because now this thread is going to last another 50 pages because he will post the same useless rant bumping it. Please lock this thread points have been made and it's just going to be arguing and "my opinion is better" attacks.

You say you don't need it but you have it a little wrong, prone makes it better, its just not required, but it does make it better. Prone improves the game play but is not needed.

Edit: also if its not required it does not matter at all then why even be here man?

[SoNaR]

So.... add prone and remove crouch? xD

[Chronic]

The problem with prone is how it changes the gameplay style.

Compare BFBC2 to BF3.

BFBC2 had a lot more action, more attack, more movement. Since there was no prone in BFBC2 cover was higher and facilitated attack & move style gameplay. Hiding was harder and it encouraged more assault and thus more action. Camping in corners while making yourself small as possible wasn't an issue.

Gameplay with BFBC2 was quite awesome, fast paced, and fun.

BF3 had less cover (because of prone), more camping (because of prone), and less action (because prone rewards camping), and attack was discouraged due to prone putting attackers at more of a disadvantage. The targets shooting at them were smaller, harder to hit, and harder to spot.

Prone made the battlefield franchise worse. It isn't needed in PlanetSide 2, there's no reason to add it, and the game will be much better off without it.

I think you don't remember playing BFBC2.

[Zulthus]

I think you don't remember playing BFBC2.

No... he's 100% right.

[Chronic]

Nice find agains you conter a arguments that a lots of people come with such as Prone will encourage camping lol

these snipers nest in crouch position was more than just usual in many NON prone games ;)

Edit: and if they where prone in this position they arent going to be able to shoot lol only get a cover ;) but in crouch at this spot people just can see their gun because the montainside hide the rest of their body ;) only the deah and the top of the guns are expose


What are you saying? I don't understand broken English.

[Stew]

This is the way it should be, you don't need prone for this.

Stew must have just woken up, because now this thread is going to last another 50 pages because he will post the same useless rant bumping it. Please lock this thread points have been made and it's just going to be arguing and "my opinion is better" attacks.

Prone isnt for camping with snipers prone is for rushers mostly

the point was not been made at least for you because it seams you did not read others arguments because most people who want prone are rushers not camping snipers

most people want prone to actually be able to play with the terrain and with cover when they need it if my only way to survive is been prone for 2 sec the time to reload and if my only cover could be a crate 2 feet tall or a rock 2feet tall or very little hillside

I want to be able to do it to safe my life not having crouch and having half of my chest and head expose

this is the main reason , snipers , campers , non mooving target , have nothing to do with it

and also prone will not change players mentality and play style

so why not remooving clock since some people will all take a sniper with cloak and will camp behind this will slow the gamepace and flow of the game ? no matter if they are crouch they are invisible at distance

but the truth his we dont need to remmove cloak beause not everyones will use it or abuse it ;)

we will see in the beta if it work or not but its a welcome mechanics for a front line rusher like me :D

[Chronic]

No... he's 100% right.

He's a 100% wrong. There's just as much camping because sniping in both games is piss easy.

[McBane]

No... he's 100% right.

Wrong, camping in BC2 was the worst ever in the Battlefield series bc as a sniper you could hit a single sand corn from a mile away. That problem didnt exist in BF2 or BF3 where u could prone, but the sniper rifles were not so ridiculously over-precise.

[Phellix]

Prone isnt for camping with snipers prone is for rushers mostly

the point was not been made at least for you because it seams you did not read others arguments because most people who want prone are rushers not camping snipers

most people want prone to actually be able to play with the terrain and with cover when they need it if my only way to survive is been prone for 2 sec the time to reload and if my only cover could be a crate 2 feet tall or a rock 2feet tall or very little hillside

I want to be able to do it to safe my life not having crouch and having half of my chest and head expose

this is the main reason , snipers , campers , non mooving target , have nothing to do with it

and also prone will not change players mentality and play style

so why not remooving clock since some people will all take a sniper with cloak and will camp behind this will slow the gamepace and flow of the game ? no matter if they are crouch they are invisible at distance

but the truth his we dont need to remmove cloak beause not everyones will use it or abuse it ;)

we will see in the beta if it work or not but its a welcome mechanics for a front line rusher like me :D
"this is the main reason , snipers , campers , non mooving target , have nothing to do with it "

Maybe not for you, and hats off to you for not abusing it, but prone does create those exact problems and the game is based around being able to crouch to take cover so there's absolutely no reason to change it. Prone would do nothing for a rusher in this type of scale because if you used it you'd just get naded for sitting somewhere too long.

I think you're believing the game didn't have cover in mind for people crouching and this isn't the case, perhaps you should watch the E3 Streams again and look at the terrain.

[captainkapautz]

in BF3 the (( killcam)) arent on most of the time the servers admins allow them or not ;)

What?

[Stew]

"this is the main reason , snipers , campers , non mooving target , have nothing to do with it "

Maybe not for you, and hats off to you for not abusing it, but prone does create those exact problems and the game is based around being able to crouch to take cover so there's absolutely no reason to change it. Prone would do nothing for a rusher in this type of scale because if you used it you'd just get naded for sitting somewhere too long.

I think you're believing the game didn't have cover in mind for people crouching and this isn't the case, perhaps you should watch the E3 Streams again and look at the terrain.

http://youtu.be/a3L04OgHdL0?t=17m2s quick exemple did i have any problem to see him or kill him ? ive never enconter any problem with prone snipers they are easy target to me so i do not see the point

i dont have a single camper in my clan and we are around 50 ? and none of them camps and we all use prone as i do to use terrain thats all and most people are doing the same and (( drop shot )) arent a problem either 99% people who drop shot in a firefigth with no cover arounf are dead lol this isnt like COD 4 mods controlers drop shot

[Malorn]

Stew should get an achievement for linking the most completely irrelevant youtube videos that nobody actually watches.

[Stew]

What?

Most of the time the killcam is disactivated and you dont see the killer cam servers admin have the choice to put it in or not in their servers ive seen plently of servers with no killcam you only see the name of the guys who kill you not where he his etc..

[Sirisian]

So.... add prone and remove crouch? xD
Ideally they're choices among many. In the previous pages (if anyone can keep up at this point) it's been described that a few people here wish that prone was a choice after crouching. That is:

Standing:

High Mobility (Can sprint)
Large Profile
Low/No Accuracy Modifier


Crouch:

Medium Mobility
Medium Profile
Medium Accuracy Modifier


Prone:

Low Mobility
Low Profile
High Accuracy Modifier


The transitions would be from Stand -> Crouch -> Prone in a fluid motion. This has been brought up numerous times now. People have listed other modifiers for each state. Grenade use, cloaking, etc modifiers. Lot of variables.

[Phellix]

http://youtu.be/a3L04OgHdL0?t=17m2s quick exemple did i have any problem to see him or kill him ? ive never enconter any problem with prone snipers they are easy target to me so i do not see the point

i dont have a single camper in my clan and we are around 50 ? and none of them camps and we all use prone as i do to use terrain thats all and most people are doing the same and (( drop shot )) arent a problem either 99% people who drop shot in a firefigth with no cover arounf are dead lol this isnt like COD 4 mods controlers drop shot

That clip had NOTHING to do with what i said. Do you even read posts?

[Stew]

Stew should get an achievement for linking the most completely irrelevant youtube videos that nobody actually watches.

How this could be irrevelant ive show someone in prone position and ive seen him and kill him with ease

thats was the whole point but i think i must upload some more video but ive already proove manything about prone yet Ignoring it do not make the video irrevelant they discredit all false arguments thats come up !

The only problem about prone could be the implementation of it mostly the hitbox and few thing like this

nothing to do with all the ,, camping , dolphin d , flow reduce , etc.. all of this has been proove wrong in my many videos

also after ive proove them wrong they start to come up with Ok its not because prone work in MAG and Bf thats it will work in planetside 2 nad ive said we will see it in the beta but as far as i know Matt higby John Smedley tramell Issac have all said the gameplay gunplays is deeply inspire by modern shooters such as Battlefield , call of duty , MAG and so on

So at the momment if a presume the gameplay is based on those game can i say Prone might work well as well ?

[Phellix]

How this could be irrevelant ive show someone in prone position and ive seen him and kill him with ease

thats was the whole point but i think i must upload some more video but ive already proove manything about prone yet Ignoring it do not make the video irrevelant they discredit all false arguments thats come up !

The only problem about prone could be the implementation of it mostly the hitbox and few thing like this

nothing to do with all the ,, camping , dolphin d , flow reduce , etc.. all of this has been proove wrong in my many videos

also after ive proove them wrong they start to come up with Ok its not because prone work in MAG and Bf thats it will work in planetside 2 nad ive said we will see it in the beta but as far as i know Matt higby John Smedley tramell Issac have all said the gameplay gunplays is deeply inspire by modern shooters such as Battlefield , call of duty , MAG and so on

So at the momment if a presume the gameplay is based on those game can i say Prone might work well as well ?


You're still comparing a 64/64 to a 2000/2000, with 3 different teams with aerial and mobiles vehicles, deployables, MAX's, cloakers....do you see where i'm going with this? You can keep stating that they want to base PS2 around those games but they're nothing like them so they in reality cannot be compared and the devs have said this.

You are not convincing anybody except yourself, stop beating a dead horse.

[Stew]

That clip had NOTHING to do with what i said. Do you even read posts?

"this is the main reason , snipers , campers , non mooving target , have nothing to do with it "

Maybe not for you, and hats off to you for not abusing it, but prone does create those exact problems and the game is based around being able to crouch to take cover so there's absolutely no reason to change it. Prone would do nothing for a rusher in this type of scale because if you used it you'd just get naded for sitting somewhere too long.

I think you're believing the game didn't have cover in mind for people crouching and this isn't the case, perhaps you should watch the E3 Streams again and look at the terrain.
this is whats ive read so yes i think the video as make sens about whats you said its seams you said the campers will get spot to hide on the map behinds rock etc.. and that part of the maps is like the rocky place around the base at e3 where people can camp prone and as you can see you can see them in bf3 and kill them so why not in ps2 ? even in ps2 people even with the sersert camo still have brigth color so they are even easyer to spot

if i get you wrong please explain me because this was the way i just understand it sorry if i misunderstand you

[Ratstomper]

After reading some of the points made here; I still fail to see how prone would bring anything remotely worthwhile to the game. Why exactly do you want to prone? Are you wanting to just lay in a corner and mow people down as they walk in the room? It's not like the cover in the bases and outside of them are so tiny that you have to prone to hide behind them. They seem quite adequate with crouching. Furthermore, I don't remember ever having issues with sniping duels in prone. In fact it made them more fun. Noone wants to spend 5 hours pixel hunting the douchebag camping up on the ridge whose shots are clipping through the hilltop.

I just fail to see why it would bring ANYTHING to the game at all besides some cheap, half-assed, gimicky type FPS bullcrap that we play planetside to get away from.

[Stew]

You're still comparing a 64/64 to a 2000/2000, with 3 different teams with aerial and mobiles vehicles, deployables, MAX's, cloakers....do you see where i'm going with this? You can keep stating that they want to base PS2 around those games but they're nothing like them so they in reality cannot be compared and the devs have said this.

You are not convincing anybody except yourself, stop beating a dead horse.

ive compare also MAG a game with 256 players with multiple videos to proove the point prone isnt and never as been a problem in MAG how many time ill have to keep saying this

figth over base will be mainly or most of the time around 100 to 300 people per based exept some few epic times so MAg as pretty much those numbers

theyre will be rarely or almost never 2000 players over a single base thats for sure

so MAG when leters a b c d e f g h are opens is exacty the same scales as it will be in ps2 and prone as never been a problem in MAG this is the only game ive know who look pretty similar to ps2 but work well in MAG well see in the Beta for ps2

[Phellix]

this is whats ive read so yes i think the video as make sens about whats you said its seams you said the campers will get spot to hide on the map behinds rock etc.. and that part of the maps is like the rocky plance around the base at e3 where people can camp prone and as you can see you can see them in bf3 and kill them so why not in ps2 ? even in ps2 people even with the sersert camo still have brigth color so they are even easyer to spot

if i get you wrong please explain me because this was the way i just understand it sorry if i misunderstand you


Planetside 2 E3 Stream - Day 3 - (feat. Totalbiscuit and Margaret Krohn) - YouTube

Watch this if you haven't already seen it, you were talking about it being useful as a rusher, right? This is what i was trying to explain.

No where in this base shown would prone be anymore useful to a rusher than crouching, because they designed the game to where the objects and terrain are just the right height, there's plenty of cover everywhere you would try and rush.

That being said, that eliminates your argument, doesn't it? Because the only other use would be for camping a hill or way out in nomans land, right? Where only campers would really make use of it.

Correct me if i'm wrong but i don't see how prone would be useful on PS2 with what we've seen map wise/base wise.

[Stew]

I hope it stays out, it turns games into giant lamefests.

http://youtu.be/YCDuUIGsf34?t=1m52s «««««« is this look like a lame fest to you ? 256 players a base with the size of planetside 2 base same kind of map layout and the prone is a feature in this game where you see it broke the game or make it lame tell me ?

[Stew]

Planetside 2 E3 Stream - Day 3 - (feat. Totalbiscuit and Margaret Krohn) - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xcmHYuUbn0&feature=player_embedded)

Watch this if you haven't already seen it, you were talking about it being useful as a rusher, right? This is what i was trying to explain.

.

PlanetSide 2 Alpha Highlights Video - YouTube

you should take a look at this the maps in planetside isnt all about base you also have outpost and landscape combat and their yes prone will be more than welcome as a infantry base soldiers

[Cuross]

How this could be irrevelant ive show someone in prone position and ive seen him and kill him with ease

thats was the whole point but i think i must upload some more video but ive already proove manything about prone yet Ignoring it do not make the video irrevelant they discredit all false arguments thats come up !

The only problem about prone could be the implementation of it mostly the hitbox and few thing like this

nothing to do with all the ,, camping , dolphin d , flow reduce , etc.. all of this has been proove wrong in my many videos

also after ive proove them wrong they start to come up with Ok its not because prone work in MAG and Bf thats it will work in planetside 2 nad ive said we will see it in the beta but as far as i know Matt higby John Smedley tramell Issac have all said the gameplay gunplays is deeply inspire by modern shooters such as Battlefield , call of duty , MAG and so on

So at the momment if a presume the gameplay is based on those game can i say Prone might work well as well ?

Alright, this is the last thing I'm going to say on this thread because I don't think we're going to be able to salvage enough glue from this dead horse anymore.

Basically what you're doing in all your posts really is just reiterating what you've been saying since the first, and most of your arguments we can actually use against yours, "I can kill all these people who prone easy". Well, the fact of the matter is that this thread is called "Planetside 2 needs prone" and it's a poll, so it's asking us if it does or not. I have been saying that PS2 does not NEED prone, it's a fun mechanic sometimes, but the game is not broken or flawed with or without it. I respect all those people who have an opinion of why prone should be put in, but you're pushing the line of arrogance AND ignorance. When you say that you can kill people who prone really easy, it sounds like the tactical advantage of going prone doesn't offer much help at all. When you say that you can use the mechanic to move up the line and continue the assault using prone, given the size of PS2, everyone will be able to flank anyone and there's more to "sneaking" into a position than reducing your profile by laying on the ground. When you say that you want to save your life while you're being shot at so you prone, once again I say as I have said in my other posts, LOOK AT HOW MUCH COVER THERE IS. I have not, in all the videos I've watched, seen a place with cover further than a short sprint away. If you're caught in the middle of nowhere and the only way to save your life is to prone, well I'm sorry, but those snipers and tank rounds are gonna find you anyway.

With all that said and plenty more I'm withholding, does Planetside 2 REALLY need prone, or is it just a mechanic that people would want for the minor tactical advantages that it offers? I'm going to link to my earliest post with all my opinions on it so that it can be perused again. I'm currently for it's not necessary for the game, thus no reason to put it in, but if it's in, I don't think it will make that big a deal regardless.

Previous post (http://www.planetside-universe.com/showpost.php?p=724583&postcount=687)

So now, let's just stop with all these videos and bickering about why it should or shouldn't be in, but let's start talking about why it would be necessary for it to be in or not. Something fun and exciting for a change.

[Stew]

Why do you care so much about what I think?

I hate prone and don't want it in Planetside 2, deal with it.

ive just put up evidance about the prone mechanics

and i dont know how someones can hate a standing position i simply dont get it lol

[Sirisian]

Well, the fact of the matter is that this thread is called "Planetside 2 needs prone" and it's a poll, so it's asking us if it does or not. I have been saying that PS2 does not NEED prone, it's a fun mechanic sometimes, but the game is not broken or flawed with or without it.
You didn't read the poll question. It's a personal opinion poll asking if you want it in the game, not if Planetside 2 needs it. ("Do you want Prone in PS2?") The game technically doesn't "need" very much. Some of us just "want" the game to give players as many choices as possible so the combat doesn't feel dumbed down or simplified in anyway.

[Kran De Loy]

Aye, and it seems that roughly 2/3 of poll'ers don't care for it. If it was there I'd almost feel obligated to make use of it. I'd rather be in a Lightning or a Galaxy than going prone out in the field. And if you're prone in a base, what the hell for!?

[Stew]

I'm currently for it's not necessary for the game, thus no reason to put it in, but if it's in, I don't think it will make that big a deal regardless.



So now, let's just stop with all these videos and bickering about why it should or shouldn't be in, but let's start talking about why it would be necessary for it to be in or not. Something fun and exciting for a change.

Iam just ducussing with does you seams to missunderstand the mechanics because in few games prones was anoying because they where badly implemented ..

i just try to make those people see thats it work in games and give you more freedoms more options and have nothing to do with all the misconception around it !

Ill show you one quick exemple of contradiction ive seen :

Some say adding prone make the game more easy and more (( campers friendly ))

And the same people say its more hard to shoot at prone target than crouch target

So if its more hard to shoot at prone target why they dont want to make the game more (( hard )) and in the other hand claim the game will be more easy with it

lol you got whats i try to say ?

and this is just one exemple

for me ill judje in the beta if it fit or not for now i can only base my tough almost on MAG and battlefield 3 experience since both games share many gameplay elements with planetside 2 !

lets see in the BETA

[Mr DeCastellac]

Planetside 2 does NOT need prone, and this thread does NOT need 64 pages.

:stoppost:

[Phellix]

PlanetSide 2 Alpha Highlights Video - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIE42ZfdKbI&feature=plcp)

you should take a look at this the maps in planetside isnt all about base you also have outpost and landscape combat and their yes prone will be more than welcome as a infantry base soldiers

.......I just don't even know what to say to you anymore, do you not understand? Are you not capable of understanding? In what way would an outpost have different design? In what way would landscape have different object(cover ie rocks, walls, racks, tubes ect) design? There are objects everywhere in the game designed the same exact way. Do you get that? Do i need to say it again? Do you not understand what i'm telling you? They are all designed for crouch cover.

Here, i'll even make it easier for you since your argument for it is for rushing purposes, in what way are you going to use prone to rush someone in a landscape when people are already crouched hiding behind rocks?

I give up, you're hopeless man. I presented a very arguable point and you still are trying to find a way to say it's wrong.

[Sirisian]

If it was there I'd almost feel obligated to make use of it. I'd rather be in a Lightning or a Galaxy than going prone out in the field. And if you're prone in a base, what the hell for!?
Read what you wrote again. Because something is in the game you'd feel obligated to use it? If you need to use crouch, you use it. If you need to throw a grenade you throw it. Anything in the game that's added you will feel obligated to use if it's the right choice. Who cares if you'd rather be in a vehicle in a field. Some players might want to be out with rocket launchers in the rocks or vertically up in a tree. It sounds like you want the game balanced in such a way infantry can only be used indoors and vehicles are used all the time outdoors. If you ever played Planetside you'll know that isn't the case. I'd run around with a lancer all the time taking pop-shots at vehicles. If someone is using prone in a massive base, it's the same reason as using crouch, to get better cover in their current location or to decrease their accuracy threshold when taking shots.

[GreatMazinkaise]

No sense arguing with Stew... even without the language barrier he's on an entirely different cognitive plane than the rest of us.

[maradine]

Someday I, too, hope to taste the rainbow.

[Ratstomper]

Read what you wrote again. Because something is in the game you'd feel obligated to use it? If you need to use crouch, you use it. If you need to throw a grenade you throw it. Anything in the game that's added you will feel obligated to use if it's the right choice. Who cares if you'd rather be in a vehicle in a field. Some players might want to be out with rocket launchers in the rocks or vertically up in a tree. It sounds like you want the game balanced in such a way infantry can only be used indoors and vehicles are used all the time outdoors. If you ever played Planetside you'll know that isn't the case. I'd run around with a lancer all the time taking pop-shots at vehicles. If someone is using prone in a massive base, it's the same reason as using crouch, to get better cover in their current location or to decrease their accuracy threshold when taking shots.

I distinctly recall being fairly useless out in the open as infantry. If you weren't in a vehicle, the best you could do was shoot some AV weapons, but you would die pretty quick.

Furthermore, if you're going up against a tank or aircraft in an open area, that would be a really moronic thing to do and you should be blown to bits. Noone should be able to survive on foot in a vehicle fight by going prone. In all other areas where infantry can practically take on vehicles, crouching seems to be adequate.

I still fail to see how prone brings anything to the game that isn't just lame tricks.

[vasito]

It's a good thing this is a video game played for fun and not a real war then.

Prone causes camping because generally you move much slower in prone. When people go prone they probably don't plan to be moving a lot. Prone also makes attacking a base much more difficult because the size of the enemy target just shrunk by 75%. A couple guys laying prone in a chokepoint with powerful weapons can take out many many attackers.

This game isn't designed to be some military sim. It's a massive scale arcade style action game and I'm glad there will be no prone.

I use prone when I advance and the cover is small. Also when Im under heavy fire.
prone =/= camping.

[Phellix]

I use prone when I advance and the cover is small. Also when Im under heavy fire.
prone =/= camping.

Welcome to planetside, where heavy fire is everywhere

[Stew]

I distinctly recall being fairly useless out in the open as infantry. If you weren't in a vehicle, the best you could do was shoot some AV weapons, but you would die pretty quick.

Furthermore, if you're going up against a tank or aircraft in an open area, that would be a really moronic thing to do and you should be blown to bits. Noone should be able to survive on foot in a vehicle fight by going prone. In all other areas where infantry can practically take on vehicles, crouching seems to be adequate.

I still fail to see how prone brings anything to the game that isn't just lame tricks.


Planetside 2 prone explain why it could be usefull ! - YouTube
ive made this really quick video to explain few point also i show how use the terrain could be usefull with prone as a infantry

also show the same maps layout as planetside 2 for almost 80 % of the entire continents and also

why crouch only could be bad

also proove thats battlefield dropshot do not work etc..

Hope this will help more people to understands i do not want to all this to become personal

[Ratstomper]

Planetside 2 prone explain why it could be usefull ! - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqv4pQ9WlSk)
ive made this really quick video to explain few point also i show how use the terrain could be usefull with prone as a infantry

also show the same maps layout as planetside 2 for almost 80 % of the entire continents and also

why crouch only could be bad

also proove thats battlefield dropshot do not work etc..

Hope this will help more people to understands i do not want to all this to become personal

So, you want a situation where noone can hit you? I don't see how that's fair. At all.

Besides that, planetside has much better cover than that in any area I've seen where infantry are viable. If an area is that open, it's time to stop hoofing it and roll armor, friend.

[SKYeXile]

This thread still going? cant you guys just wait for COD:BO2?

[Sirisian]

I distinctly recall being fairly useless out in the open as infantry. If you weren't in a vehicle, the best you could do was shoot some AV weapons, but you would die pretty quick.
Maybe I have more experience with the game and bridge battles. Things used to be more hectic back in 2003/2004 with outside battles. I remember a few on Ishundar where I wasn't in a vehicle. (Just spawning at an AMS outside a base) and you'd be shooting people off the walls from behind rocks. We already saw places in the E3 demo where that would definitely be possible since the outside of the bases are flat in some places and hilly on others.

Furthermore, if you're going up against a tank or aircraft in an open area, that would be a really moronic thing to do and you should be blown to bits. Noone should be able to survive on foot in a vehicle fight by going prone. In all other areas where infantry can practically take on vehicles, crouching seems to be adequate.
Who said going against a tank 1 on 1? Most of the shots players were taking with AV in the E3 demo were pop-shots at tanks that weren't paying them any attention. You had that scenario a lot in Planetside 1. Maybe it was because I played VS and we had one of the best AV weapons. I shot down planes all the time and took down lightnings during bridge battles.

But vehicle combat with AV outdoors isn't really the main reason to have prone. (Making yourself smaller to a tank shell at night will only get your so far). Seeing soldiers charging an outpost and going prone next to a tree to shoot at them or in the rocks on indar to pick off people as your squad pushes in seems like a much more sensible option. Especially getting people on the walls. Sure you can crouch, but it seems like not a big deal to give players an option to gain more accuracy if they want to trade off mobility. It puts them at a disadvantage as much as they get an advantage. (Easy target for any sniper).

You also have to take into consideration the resource system. Some players might not be pulling vehicles every turn. (If they could it would make the resource system rather moot). Some players might just be grabbing quads to quickly traverse. If you're outside defending a base you might lay down prone as an engineer after setting up mines to guard an area. Completely legitimate tactic that's no more a "lame trick" than crouching.

[MacXXcaM]

Normally I love good discussions... but this has gotten pretty ridiculous.

Just stop it, Stew. You have made your point. I don't think you're going to convince anybody anymore by now.

Let's just leave this discussion up to a potential implementation in beta.

[Stew]

So, you want a situation where noone can hit you? I don't see how that's fair. At all.

Besides that, planetside has much better cover than that in any area I've seen where infantry are viable. If an area is that open, it's time to stop hoofing it and roll armor, friend.
NO this isnt the goal the goal is having reactive gameplay mechanics in a no mans land like ive put up in this video the map layyout is the same as it will be in planetside for about 80 % of the continents

So i want the freedoms to be able to figth as a infantry in those area
and also be able to actively react ihave chance to get shoot from anywhere in those type of terrain so if i heard sniper shot around me i will laydown for a second firgure out whats going for where iam getting shoot at figure out and bam go to strike those guys or those guys to reload to actively react on how and from where you get shot

also show dropshot isnt a valuable techniques if prone is well implemented

Planetside 2 prone explain why it could be usefull ! - YouTube

[Ratstomper]

Maybe I have more experience with the game and bridge battles. Things used to be more hectic back in 2003/2004 with outside battles. I remember a few on Ishundar where I wasn't in a vehicle. (Just spawning at an AMS outside a base) and you'd be shooting people off the walls from behind rocks. We already saw places in the E3 demo where that would definitely be possible since the outside of the bases are flat in some places and hilly on others.


Who said going against a tank 1 on 1? Most of the shots players were taking with AV in the E3 demo were pop-shots at tanks that weren't paying them any attention. You had that scenario a lot in Planetside 1. Maybe it was because I played VS and we had one of the best AV weapons. I shot down planes all the time and took down lightnings during bridge battles.

But vehicle combat with AV outdoors isn't really the main reason to have prone. (Making yourself smaller to a tank shell at night will only get your so far). Seeing soldiers charging an outpost and going prone next to a tree to shoot at them or in the rocks on indar to pick off people as your squad pushes in seems like a much more sensible option. Especially getting people on the walls. Sure you can crouch, but it seems like not a big deal to give players an option to gain more accuracy if they want to trade off mobility. It puts them at a disadvantage as much as they get an advantage. (Easy target for any sniper).

You also have to take into consideration the resource system. Some players might not be pulling vehicles every turn. (If they could it would make the resource system rather moot). Some players might just be grabbing quads to quickly traverse. If you're outside defending a base you might lay down prone as an engineer after setting up mines to guard an area. Completely legitimate tactic that's no more a "lame trick" than crouching.

I personally feel like an engineer would have better things to do with his time. What I don't want to see are people becoming little piles of pixels in the middle of firefights. I can't say much about the topic without actually playing the game. Crouch will probably serve the function of increasing accuracy at the expense of mobility and won't suddenly shrink a hitbox by 90% as soon as the shooting starts. I still think prone is a totally unnecessary and arbitrary thing to put in the game that doesn't serve any appreciable purpose besides promoting gameplay that planetside doesn't seem to be designed for.

[commiedic]

Love the arguments here.

http://www.planetside-universe.com/showthread.php?p=725635#post725635

Read that. What I said earlier...

TL:DR
Prone is a valuable mechanic in FPS games that have vehicles like tanks and aircraft. Prone doesn't have to be the same as CoD, but a longer animation making it more strategic for hiding then an advantage in a duel.

[mynameismud]

Some people will not rest until everything i love about the first planetside is taken apart, smashed, set on fire, and pissed on, then put back together in an unrecognizable form by being smashed into another games mold. only to come out a frankenstein made entirely of shit.

Like there isnt enough shitty modern shooters.

[Ratstomper]

Love the arguments here.

http://www.planetside-universe.com/showthread.php?p=725635#post725635

Read that. What I said earlier...

TL:DR
Prone is a valuable mechanic in FPS games that have vehicles like tanks and aircraft. Prone doesn't have to be the same as CoD, but a longer animation making it more strategic for hiding then an advantage in a duel.

I guess my question/comment is "Why the hell are you hiding? You should be shooting, moving, engineering, medic-ing or otherwise engaged in a useful activity. Leave the hiding to the infiltrators."

[Phellix]

Some people will not rest until everything i love about the first planetside is taken apart, smashed, set on fire, and pissed on, then put back together in an unrecognizable form by being smashed into another games mold. only to come out a frankenstein made entirely of shit.

Like there isnt enough shitty modern shooters.

qft

[Stew]

Some people will not rest until everything i love about the first planetside is taken apart, smashed, set on fire, and pissed on, then put back together in an unrecognizable form by being smashed into another games mold. only to come out a frankenstein made entirely of shit.

Like there isnt enough shitty modern shooters.

Remember that SOE do not make this game for you personally

and also ive play around 1700 hours in 3 years for the first planetside and you ?

i also love planetside 1 back in the day but i could not play it now the game mechanics graphics etc.. are a way to old for me


This said : they have change the entire gameplay gunplays and game mechanics if you expect to have planside 1 gameplay you will be deeply disapointed because its nothing near Ps1

the thing who made planetside planetside do not come whith the game mechanics and combat mechanics

whats made planetside planetside was the Scales first , the team work 2nd , the massive vehicules battles and bridje battles , the class systhem , the factions uniqueness , and the 3 way battles

All the gameplay mechanics was poorly made in planetside 1 and even total biscuit as point it out many time and he is rigth many compromise as benn made to achive this back in 2003

planetside 2 gameplay mechanics have nothing to do with ps1 ans will never have nothing to do

they have keep the COre of planetside 1 but they have implemented a compleate new set of gameplay mechanics based on every shitty modernshooter like you call it

so yeah if those games are shitty planetside 2 will be shiity to you probably

but in my point of view i love to see planetside back with modern and up to date no compromise modern gameplay mechanics

[GreatMazinkaise]

More insane troll logic... nothing to see here...

[mynameismud]

ya im done talking to stew. he doesnt operate in a reality with logic or reason. lots of people have given logical arguments for prone that i do not agree with, but at least they use logic and listen to others.

[Phellix]

Planetside 2 is exactly what i'm expecting it to be, nothing like any other FPS out there, and a great sequel to PS1. But saying it's nothing like the first one would be wrong, in a lot of ways they're going to be different- very different, that doesn't constitute it being a shitty modern shooter. With that said not all modern day games need every aspect like you're suggesting, why do you think games, more specifically FPS's nowadays die so quickly? People get bored with the bullshit and retarded abuse of cheesy strategy's.

PS is not like any other game out there, period. Nobody can compare it, and nobody should, it's got a league of it's own no other company can even dream to compete with.

You call it poor mechanics, I call it my favorite FPS Since 2004 when i started playing PC games. It seems like you should stick to your BF since you seem to love the gameplay so much.

Let it go Stew.

[Stew]

ya im done talking to stew. he doesnt operate in a reality with logic or reason. lots of people have given logical arguments for prone that i do not agree with, but at least they use logic and listen to others.

This is 100 % wrong i agree with thing who make sens

If you denied thats planetside 2 isnt anywhere near planetside 1 i dont even know whats to say man

the only thing i could say despite the facts thats whats u seams to say is biaise and you just seams to hate me to not be agree with whats you said

we must understand thats PS2 isnt PS1 and all ive said previously is 100 % rigth and confirme by the dev team

they all said planetside 2 have the modern mechanics shooter and they also said Like battlefield call of duty etc..

Proof here »»»» http://youtu.be/IYGfaECIA9k?t=30s

tramel clearly explain whiout a doubt that PS2 is MMO first person shooter and he say: «««« first person shooter FIRST so when you get into the game you will feel like your playing any others first person shooter on the market the reaction time the fidelity of it its all the same... it will be the exact same experience thats you have in any other first person shooter

»»»http://youtu.be/IYGfaECIA9k?t=27s ««««««

these word do not comes from me so

You have sadly said thats those modern shooters are shitty did you mean the gameplay mechanics of those shooter suck ? If yes like ive said you will not like ps2 if you dont like BF . COD , MAG modern gameplay mechanics

i can understand thats u can dislike those its a matter of taste i have some frinds who play cs1.6 because they do not like any new fps game thats their own choice !

so if you think i dont make sens do you i dont know whats to do

i try to be clear as possible did i miss some subtile thing in your languages thats i miss ?

[mynameismud]

Planetside 2 is exactly what i'm expecting it to be, nothing like any other FPS out there, and a great sequel to PS1. But saying it's nothing like the first one would be wrong, in a lot of ways they're going to be different- very different, that doesn't constitute it being a shitty modern shooter. With that said not all modern day games need every aspect like you're suggesting, why do you think games, more specifically FPS's nowadays die so quickly? People get bored with the bullshit and retarded abuse of cheesy strategy's.

PS is not like any other game out there, period. Nobody can compare it, and nobody should, it's got a league of it's own no other company can even dream to compete with.

You call it poor mechanics, I call it my favorite FPS Since 2004 when i started playing PC games.

Let it go Stew.

Ya i get what you mean, ADS and high ttk are not really things i am worried about. But just in my eyes more things have changed than stayed the same, which is good for the sake of progress. But add in prone and i dont recognize this anymore. but thats just me.

[Stew]

Planetside 2 is exactly what i'm expecting it to be, nothing like any other FPS out there, and a great sequel to PS1. But saying it's nothing like the first one would be wrong, in a lot of ways they're going to be different- very different, that doesn't constitute it being a shitty modern shooter. With that said not all modern day games need every aspect like you're suggesting, why do you think games, more specifically FPS's nowadays die so quickly? People get bored with the bullshit and retarded abuse of cheesy strategy's.

PS is not like any other game out there, period. Nobody can compare it, and nobody should, it's got a league of it's own no other company can even dream to compete with.

You call it poor mechanics, I call it my favorite FPS Since 2004 when i started playing PC games.

Let it go Stew.

I was mostly comparing only the gameplay mechanics wich was the thing he point out

i dont want planetside to be a 8 vs 8 game i dont want planetside to be instance and not open wold i dont want planetside to be 2 factions instead of 3 i do not want to see the factions back story change i dont want to see the scales reduce etc..

But i was talking gameplay wise its nowhere near eachothers

iam agree with you planetside 2 become whats i was expecting from it a great sequel with solid modern shooter mechanics but also with a awesome learning curve meaningfull battle day and nigth cycle HUGES SCALES 3 way battles , awesome base figth , awesome team work and leadership options

all those thing do not exist in others modern fps but the gameplay of those fps are pretty solid but the scales and depth is boring

planetside have all the solid feature from planetside and all the solid feature from modern fps gameplay mechanics

and for me its perfect its a WIn Win situation

[commiedic]

-snip-

I guess my question/comment is "Why the hell are you hiding? You should be shooting, moving, engineering, medic-ing or otherwise engaged in a useful activity. Leave the hiding to the infiltrators."

Does everyone always have an Anti-Tank/Air weapon on them? There are thousands of scenarios where prone could save your life quickly getting behind small cover while an enemy tank comes by. I dunno maybe you have never played an FPS with vehicles and prone. It is very useful.

[fishirboy]

All we need is love love love! and for the TR and NC to die in a hole and then we can be happy, you guys can go on with yes it does slow down game play, and no it does not. The game will show if it does or not, and if it does slow it down, its not like at a turtle pace it will slow it down so that you think and have to move slow as a group but just not like a cod game were you rush in and hope that every one you meet cant click as fast as you. :rolleyes:

[fishirboy]

This game is team based and to go into a base filled with lots of people you should have to slow down, bit not really slow and prone may or may not do that. Does it really matter if you have to slow down a little so its not a "go in get killed in a min?" I would hope that when you die they will make it a little more of a punishment for doing so and extend the re-spawn time.

[JesNC]

*looks at the poll*

*shakes head at the pointless argument*

/popcorn



/beta

[IMCRAZEE]

What's funny is that this argument has gone on for 50-something pages. And the poll says it all. We don't want prone in Planetside. It just has no place.

Prone is great for games like CoD and BF, but it just doesn't fit into Planetside's playstyle, game speed, or feel.

My vote is for: No prone in Planetside 2. And I hope it stays that way.

Edit: Sorry, that's 60+ pages.

[THrONeBeaST]

This thread has run its course

[Jennyboo]

No sense arguing with Stew... even without the language barrier he's on an entirely different cognitive plane than the rest of us.

I would ask that you keep to the topic at hand and please not resort to personal attack for difference in opinion. This is Warning! Thank you!