Planetside 2 Needs Prone

[Envenom]

Title says it all. This would be a welcome addition in my books. I've enjoyed this feature in many other titles and believe it adds a wealth of strategic enhancements to gameplay.

[Eyeklops]

Good luck on selling this one to the PS1 community. I can already hear the crying about infils laying down somewhere nobody can find them in a base. It's also a far shot to be added as I think they would have to redesign the maps in some ways also.

[Raymac]

No. It doesn't. PS1 didn't need prone.

[Warborn]

If your signature is bigger than your post you need to reconsider your priorities.

Not having prone discourages camping-style gameplay. Planetside has always been a more aggressive sort of shooter than something like BF3, and this is one area I don't mind them keeping the same.

[GreatMazinkaise]

Prone encourages static gameplay... crouch is plenty.

[neonlazer]

Hell no to prone..planetside and BF3'ish games are COMPLETELY different.

[Fuse]

I think I speak for all of us when I say, "No."

[Bags]

I hate prone. I've found little reason to use anything but it 90% of the time in BF3.

[Purple]

ya the last thing we need are the annoying people who sprint at you and dive to the ground. PS2 will be a great game without it.

[neonlazer]

I will also laugh if they added prone...how will you use your minigun while prone? will it be sitting on the ground? HAHA

[Eyeklops]

ya the last thing we need are the annoying people who sprint at you and dive to the ground. PS2 will be a great game without it.
Not advocating putting dolphin diving into PS2, but every time I try running at a person and going prone I end up taking a bullet in the nugget. So if they did add it that doesn't really bother me. Also, I notice on bf3 it's insanely easier to headshot prone soldiers, so it kinda balances out.

[Zenben]

This is not BF3/COD, no prone please.

[Eyeklops]

I will also laugh if they added prone...how will you use your minigun while prone? will it be sitting on the ground? HAHA
If they are using classes, they could restrict who can go prone. Say only light assault, medics, engies, infils.

[Envenom]

I find it comical how many of you old vets, who in other threads have been vehemently defending a hardline punishing PS experience where realism trumps all are not open to this.

[Eyeklops]

This is not BF3/COD, no prone please.
Argument invalid.

[Fuse]

PlanetSide has never been realistic. I don't know where you got that idea.

[Gandhi]

I find it comical how many of you old vets, who in other threads have been vehemently defending a hardline punishing PS experience where realism trumps all are not open to this.
Realism? Is that what you think Planetside vets are after?

[Mod]

Just not needed.

[Neurotoxin]

Okay, but these need to be put in too:

-Damage taken while prone is doubled.

-Because of the extreme surface contact with the ground, infiltrators can only get to about 50% stealth maximum, even with no weapon drawn.

-Unable to use AV weapons.

-Unable to throw grenades more than 15 meters.

-Able to be trampled by friendlies and enemies, causing damage and inflicting grief on any trampling friendlies.

-Takes 1 second to get to crouching from prone. Certs can reduce that to half a second.

[Envenom]

Realism? Is that what you think Planetside vets are after?

See post below. I rest my case.

Okay, but these need to be put in too:

-Damage taken while prone is doubled.

-Because of the extreme surface contact with the ground, infiltrators can only get to about 50% stealth maximum, even with no weapon drawn.

-Unable to use AV weapons.

-Unable to throw grenades more than 15 meters.

-Able to be trampled by friendlies and enemies, causing damage and inflicting grief on any trampling friendlies.

-Takes 1 second to get to crouching from prone. Certs can reduce that to half a second.

[Gandhi]

See post below. I rest my case.
It was a sarcastic way of saying "No", I rest my case.

[Fuse]

Okay, but these need to be put in too:

-Damage taken while prone is doubled.

-Because of the extreme surface contact with the ground, infiltrators can only get to about 50% stealth maximum, even with no weapon drawn.

-Unable to use AV weapons.

-Unable to throw grenades more than 15 meters.

-Able to be trampled by friendlies and enemies, causing damage and inflicting grief on any trampling friendlies.

-Takes 1 second to get to crouching from prone. Certs can reduce that to half a second.

Don't forget a 10% chance of getting dirt in your gun and having it jam. We're going for realism, right?

[Mastachief]

Yay for another feature that isn't need

/sarcasm

Prone never works proper in any game, and tends to lead to similar frustrations as bunnyhopping does.

[MrBloodworth]

Not a fan.

[NCLynx]

In a game with this scale I feel like more things could go wrong than right if prone was added. The last thing I want is to see hundreds of people laying down in a base fight cluttering up the place.

[Zekeen]

Planetside is about mobility and logistics, too much so for prone really. Prone would be used to just ambush people in defenses and make it much less balanced.

But it's up for debate, the Devs might make it work, who knows.

[Envenom]

Yay for another feature that isn't need

/sarcasm

Prone never works proper in any game, and tends to lead to similar frustrations as bunnyhopping does.

Hmmm. I have to disagree. My favourite role in BF3 was the support role. A large portion of the class was based around prone and deploying the bipod. This lead to other mechanics like the suppression features etc... For me, this was my favourite experience of the game. Deploying an MG and laying cover for my fellow soldiers. I have to disagree on your blanket statement.

Is it right for PS2? Hmmm. Many of you seem to disagree and yes, I acknowledge that it would probably promote camping. Bear in mind though that a lot of this game is about point defence and digging in, so allowing players to go prone doesn't seem like it would change much.

[Gonefshn]

I also don't really see where prone is necessary. But I don't quite understand why it's so terrible either. People are going to camp prone or not the only difference is once they prone they cant really move so it's easier for another sniper to take them out.

The only valid argument against prone I see is to stop run and dive play, thats just horrible lame.

Either way, to me I'd probably rather see it out just because of my own tastes but it wouldn't break Planetside if it was there, honestly.

[Stardouser]

Camping is a legitimate tactic, and to support the removal of a feature based on discouraging legitimate gameplay or the inclusion of features that artificially render a legitimate gameplay tactic pointless is the same as forcing others to play the way YOU like.

People who hate camping want you to duel them on the main street at high noon. That's not what a wargame is all about.

[Razicator]

Hell no. Cloaking snipers with prone? And 200+meter tall cliffs to hide on? Worse than BF3's campers...

[Warborn]

I find it comical how many of you old vets, who in other threads have been vehemently defending a hardline punishing PS experience where realism trumps all are not open to this.

On what planet was Planetside 1 anything even close to realistic? We're spacemans with lasers running around in bright red, blue or purple armor. It's comically arcade-y, and it's fine for what it is. Nobody with a brain thinks that Planetside has any business trying to be realistic.

[MrBloodworth]

I find it comical how many of you old vets, who in other threads have been vehemently defending a hardline punishing PS experience where realism trumps all are not open to this.

This never happened.

[GreatMazinkaise]

I am thoroughly in the gamist camp when it comes to Planetside. So no, realism is not something I'm after (I've been surprised by threads indicating that gunners can be headshotted out of MANA turrets; I assumed they'd become part of the turret).

Prone looks terrible on the miniature tabletop and it looks equally bad in a game. Toons should be running and gunning, not standing still.

[Fuse]

Ooh, can I go prone on top of a Vanguard's turret in a MAX? Then we could basically have a whole extra set of guns!

[Stardouser]

I am thoroughly in the gamist camp when it comes to Planetside. So no, realism is not something I'm after (I've been surprised by threads indicating that gunners can be headshotted out of MANA turrets; I assumed they'd become part of the turret).

Prone looks terrible on the miniature tabletop and it looks equally bad in a game. Toons should be running and gunning, not standing still.

Another "stop liking what I don't like" argument?

[Envenom]

Ooh, can I go prone on top of a Vanguard's turret in a MAX? Then we could basically have a whole extra set of guns!

Fuse, MAX's can't go prone. Now you just sound ridiculous. :groovy:

[The Janitor]

Can't prone in a cockpit or gunner seat. I have no use for this. And on that note, being prone isn't going to save you from the myriad of vehicles in this game with explosive weapons.

[GreatMazinkaise]

I don't care if you like static gameplay... that's perfectly fine.

I liked Planetside's mobile gameplay and want its successor to continue to feature this. Which means that a prone stance is right out.

[Fuse]

Here's the main question you need to ask about any potential feature:
Does it add more to the gameplay than is subtracts? Will players enjoy it more than any frustrations that may come with it? Pretty much Pros vs Cons, which comes out on top?

When it comes to prone I just feel there are far more cons than pros, and the cons are typically far more frustrating than the pros are rewarding.

[Razicator]

Hmm, related to this, I wonder if we can stand on TOP of each other? Standing on vehicles is possible, but other people? Imagine charging into the CC, when you see literally a wall of enemies. I'm pretty sure it was possible in PS1.

[Tigersmith]

Please no prone. The last thing we need is snipers laying down the entire game..look at battlefield 3..thats all they do

[Fuse]

Hmm, related to this, I wonder if we can stand on TOP of each other? Standing on vehicles is possible, but other people? Imagine charging into the CC, when you see literally a wall of enemies. I'm pretty sure it was possible in PS1.

lol I picture Katamari squads, similar to this:
Best Action Scenes Ever!!! (Indian Robot Endhiran) - YouTube

[Masahiko]

Maybe we can lockdown TR maxses to Skeeters so they can have some extra av!
(side note, i want to see what that would look like)

[Gonefshn]

Please no prone. The last thing we need is snipers laying down the entire game..look at battlefield 3..thats all they do

Though I stand against prone in PS2 I have to say.

Isn't that what snipers are supposed to do??? lol

Who wants snipers running around? If the guns are accurate enough to get kills while moving we have an even bigger problem than prone would cause.

I am still against prone if I had to cast a solid vote but I'll back Envenom a bit here and say I don't see exactly how it would ruin the game if it went in (assuming you can't run and dive).

Just because there is no prone doesn't mean people wont stay in one spot. Also, people in prone that are camping are sitting ducks that can barely move. There is that large trade-off to consider. Giving a sniper a slight advantage of being better able to hide is exactly what a sniper is meant to be. A silent hidden killer. except if your spotted while prone, its over for you.

I just don't see that there is a big argument against prone I think it changes the game less than people are saying it will. I also think PS2 should cater to every play style because scope and grand scale are the whole point of the game.

[Hamma]

Wait till beta then decide if Prone is needed. I for one don't think its needed in such a large scale game.

[Eyeklops]

"A wealth of strategic enhancements".

Pretentious way of saying "it makes camping easier".

Why are people against camping? If you are defending a post, camping is the RIGHT thing to do in almost all cases.

P.S. I also support quick knives.

[Neurotoxin]

I'll be honest, I'd much rather have advanced firing positions that utilize terrain and cover more effectively, like leaning around corners or just peeking high enough over cover to aim and fire (and all the opponents see is half a head and a gun pointed at them). That would be worth way more to me than prone position.

[CuddlyChud]

I'm not against prone per se, but I don't think it would fit into Planetside. One of the issues with Planetside 1 is that it has always favored the defenders more than attackers, so I think gameplay elements need to promote aggressive gameplay so the attackers can actually have more of a chance. Prone is much more useful to defenders than attackers. As an attacker, unless you can prone into a defilade position, your really just asking to get shot in the face or a grenade in your lap.

[KnightHawk ECID]

I'd rather have lean than prone. Prone doesn't open up new opportunities or strategies, leaning does.

[The Kush]

No.

[Kurtz]

I am by no means advocating prone in planetside 2, but I do want to dispute the theory that prone leads to camping.

Prone is necessary to avoid headshots from snipers, grenade launcher & AT spam on your position.

BFHeroes and other games without prone are annoying because you can only crouch behind things which doesn't protect you 100% from aoe spam and headshots. Dying to something that wouldn't have killed you if you could only have gone prone is more annoying that the 1 random idiot who lays in the corner and gets maybe 3 kills tops before hes knifed.

As for adding in prone after beta, It would be very unlikely but not impossible as they would have to redo every character model to include the prone animations and add the code in to trigger them in addition to all the accuracy balancing from the new stance.

[Kaw]

I'm not against prone per se, but I don't think it would fit into Planetside. One of the issues with Planetside 1 is that it has always favored the defenders more than attackers, so I think gameplay elements need to promote aggressive gameplay so the attackers can actually have more of a chance. Prone is much more useful to defenders than attackers. As an attacker, unless you can prone into a defilade position, your really just asking to get shot in the face or a grenade in your lap.

I absolutely agree with you and I'd like to thank you for actually giving an argument against prone.

Planetside is an arcade shooter and prone would, in many people's opinions, make the game more static and less fun. Prone encourages the turtle style gameplay that the devs have said they are specifically trying to avoid.

[Frostedawg]

<<< played planetside for 7-8 years loved it but wished i could go prone the entire time because in a situation where im in a shootout with some blues or purple's my first natural reaction is to look for cover and if said cover is a 1ft high rock then down behind that is where id wanna be. And honestly id give up stealth to go prone while sniping because...well thats what snipers do and with camo armor patterns id just rock one of those and go lay down and snipe....and if you hate snipers grab a mossy/reaver/scythe and go F them up.... if you hate prone then dont use it but dont try and limit other peoples gameplay options so you dont have to have the option. Also if everyone decided to snipe on one team well they would be stupid because one person in any tank or fighter or w/e could kill them all. all the no prone votes i see are supported by "i dont like having to fight people that lay down and shoot. or i dont like people that use tactics that i dont like" honestly get over it. i wont cry if it's not in but i hope it is.

[Frostedawg]

I absolutely agree with you and I'd like to thank you for actually giving an argument against prone.

Planetside is an arcade shooter and prone would, in many people's opinions, make the game more static and less fun. Prone encourages the turtle style gameplay that the devs have said they are specifically trying to avoid.
haha... ya no. cod is an arcade shooter. planetside was ment to be a large scale tactical shooter...

[Stardouser]

I'm not against prone per se, but I don't think it would fit into Planetside. One of the issues with Planetside 1 is that it has always favored the defenders more than attackers, so I think gameplay elements need to promote aggressive gameplay so the attackers can actually have more of a chance. Prone is much more useful to defenders than attackers. As an attacker, unless you can prone into a defilade position, your really just asking to get shot in the face or a grenade in your lap.

If attackers need a buff, what about jump pads, which helps defenders?

Also, defenders are more likely to have a low wall on a tower top which they can crouch behind than an attacker, are they not? At least, that is, until the attackers reach the base itself and then have the same cover as the defenders do.

[Zulthus]

Some people just want to watch the world burn. And by that I mean there are some people from BF3 who just want every single lame and stupid feature from "modern" FPS games. (edit Prone isn't stupid it just doesn't fit in the game, everything else is) Or just a carbon copy of BF3 on a massive scale.

No to prone. It subtracts much more from gameplay than it adds.

[Mackenz]

I'll be honest, I'd much rather have advanced firing positions that utilize terrain and cover more effectively, like leaning around corners or just peeking high enough over cover to aim and fire (and all the opponents see is half a head and a gun pointed at them). That would be worth way more to me than prone position.

This.

I find it comical how many of you old vets, who in other threads have been vehemently defending a hardline punishing PS experience where realism trumps all are not open to this.

If your aim is realism, destructible cover is up for grabs first. Good luck with that.

I am waiting for the beta for most stuff to come out in the wash, but this is not on my list for need/nice-to-have.

[MacXXcaM]

I'd like prone as well as a first person cover system like in Red Orchestra 2. But I realize most PS vets won't agree to things like that so I won't insist.

Would be a nice extra but I can live without it...

[Fuse]

I'd like prone as well as a first person cover system like in Red Orchestra 2. But I realize most PS vets won't agree to things like that so I won't insist.

Would be a nice extra but I can live without it...

First person cover: Stand behind box, Crouch. You are now in cover. To leave cover, stand up. :D

[Greeniegriz]

Prone for PS2?

http://i46.tinypic.com/10fat0l.gif

Cheers,

GG

[Dreamcast]

They wouldn't do it because it will change the whole way the game is played, maybe even some map lay outs in order to balance prone....Is too late to put prone, I think.

[sylphaen]

Prone is great ! I love it in RO2 along with the realistic one-shot-one-kill mechanics.

But please, leave it out from Planetside. It's not that kind of game.

[MacXXcaM]

First person cover: Stand behind box, Crouch. You are now in cover. To leave cover, stand up. :D

Yeah, that's late 90s/early 2000s. Prone, cover, skipping over walls or ADS is what makes war sim FPS games today great.

[Malorn]

No, it doesn't need prone. Prone is terrible.

[SpcFarlen]

I like prone, but im okay with it not being there. Though from what ive seen of the map design, youll pretty much always be standing then crouching for cover behind a low wall/baricade. So as long as there is some cover like that, im fine with it.

The problem does arise where say an infiltrator is doing some recon work on a ridge and the only way for her/him to see is to leave themselves exposed from the waist up. So as long as there are these areas of cover, hell even a rock will do, im content without having prone.

Though to argue it makes defense more campy, defense is always campy. The best defense is to trench in. People will just camp but be crouched. So i dont really see a sound argument in just stating "it promotes camping". The main focus in the game promotes camping, bases.

But to have people from popping in and out of prone fast there is a simple solution to that as well. Give prone an animation time. Soldier kneels, puts hand on ground, lays down, moves weapon into firing prone stance. Then just do the same but in reverse for getting up. Enemy lobs a grenade at you, you cant get up to move away in time. So you have a trade off there with mobility.

[Fuse]

Prone, cover, skipping over walls or ADS is what makes war sim FPS games today great.

:lol:
Regardless of how debatable that is, this isn't a sim.

[dachlatte]

BF3 shows why prone is a bad thing to put in an FPS. 50% of your team will lie around in some corner scrubbing the floor. They just love the LMG with bipod and ext. mags. Ratatatatatata all day and 5% overall accuracy. Its a sad thing to see, really.

[sylphaen]

Yeah, that's late 90s/early 2000s. Prone, cover, skipping over walls or ADS is what makes war sim FPS games today great.

I'm not sure exactly what war sims you are referring to but if it's of the BF or COD kind, let them first take out the frag list. It confirms kills and eliminates a whole range of uncertainties and uncertainty (along with no respawns) is the true aspect of war.

Call them games.

[Malorn]

The problem with prone is how it changes the gameplay style.

Compare BFBC2 to BF3.

BFBC2 had a lot more action, more attack, more movement. Since there was no prone in BFBC2 cover was higher and facilitated attack & move style gameplay. Hiding was harder and it encouraged more assault and thus more action. Camping in corners while making yourself small as possible wasn't an issue.

Gameplay with BFBC2 was quite awesome, fast paced, and fun.

BF3 had less cover (because of prone), more camping (because of prone), and less action (because prone rewards camping), and attack was discouraged due to prone putting attackers at more of a disadvantage. The targets shooting at them were smaller, harder to hit, and harder to spot.

Prone made the battlefield franchise worse. It isn't needed in PlanetSide 2, there's no reason to add it, and the game will be much better off without it.

[Gonefshn]

BF3 shows why prone is a bad thing to put in an FPS. 50% of your team will lie around in some corner scrubbing the floor. They just love the LMG with bipod and ext. mags. Ratatatatatata all day and 5% overall accuracy. Its a sad thing to see, really.

With over 100 hours of play I have never been in one game of BF3 where anything close to that many people are prone at once, not even half that. The only place that applies is Metro killspam servers and even then prone is not that prevalent.

The only valid argument for prone IMO is running and diving. Otherwise It's just a nice tool for snipers and people defending locations with a perfectly reasonable trade-off that your a sitting duck. People will camp with or without prone it's not going to matter.

[lolroflroflcake]

Prone works in some games, but in Planetside it would be kinda silly. Prone is supposed to be for games with a much slower pace and a far quicker time to kill like Arma and the older Rainbow 6 games where moving slowly and cautiously is important. In Planetside we have seen that your character is durable enough to survive being shot so prone is mostly just a superfluous form of movement that gets you where you want to be slower.

[Stardouser]

BC2 is too fast paced. Prone is not a problem.

Camping isn't a concern for people who don't want to force others to run and gun.

Lack of prone doesn't encourage anything, it FORCES you to move, and that's always bad.

BF3 also encourages camping by having a low TTK and other problems. You can't pick out one thing and blame it for BF3's problems. Also, the KDR lifestyle of sniping and going for a high KDR instead of playing the objective is part of it.

[Fuse]

Lack of prone doesn't encourage anything, it FORCES you to move, and that's always bad.

Explain to me how not being able to go prone means you have to always be moving.

Not that you're correct in saying forcing a player to do something is always bad. Making generalizations, that's always bad.

[MacXXcaM]

:lol:
Regardless of how debatable that is, this isn't a sim.

It simulates a futuristic war.

sylphaen
I'm not sure exactly what war sims you are referring to but if it's of the BF or COD kind, let them first take out the frag list. It confirms kills and eliminates a whole range of uncertainties and uncertainty (along with no respawns) is the true aspect of war.

Call them games.

I would exclude CoD. But BF would count, as well as Red Orchestra, ArmA/OFP and some others.

Proning is quite realistic, you know? You would want to lay for being less of a target and aim better. Basic military behavior, and this is a military game.

[Rare Raisin]

I never needed prone to have fun, I wouldn't miss it very much if it wasn't in ps2. In a lot of games I never used it, I felt the only reason to really use it in most games was to hide briefly as something went past and get the jump on them or move onto a objective usually the latter. Examples would be avoiding a tank...or a huge amount of enemy soldiers. So it does have it's merit in that regard for me.

More often when someone decided to prone for long periods while defending they would eventually get a grenade throw at their face! :D

[Vancha]

I'm not sure I've seen a single explanation as to how this would benefit the game.

That said, I'd be okay with this on two conditions.

1: No ground shuffling, it looks ridiculous. Once you're on the ground, you can move forward and back, slowly, and you can move your crosshair maybe 20-30* left/right.

2: Sizable getting down and getting up animations. Having people fall to the ground and somehow being able to keep their gun lined up is also ridiculous. Your gun is out of action while you're getting down and then it takes time to re-aim.

Edit: And for crying out loud, stop with the BF3 or real life comparisons. Bf3 is an entirely different beast, and real war isn't fun and doesn't make for a good game.

[Stardouser]

Explain to me how not being able to go prone means you have to always be moving.

Not that you're correct in saying forcing a player to do something is always bad. Making generalizations, that's always bad.

Removing prone when games have had it for years(therefore, not just "modern" FPS) is being done specifically for the purpose of stopping prone because some people want to force others to run and gun and duel them out in the open. Forcing may not always be bad but when it's done to promote one legit gameplay style over another, it's bad.

And as I say, camping in BF3 isn't happening because of prone, that's laughable, it's happening because of KDR-centric players, and an unreasonably low TTK, 3D spotting and killcam.

And others have explained it better than me, I particularly like the explanation someone above said about how you can't avoid headshots.

[Fuse]

It simulates a futuristic war.

Not sure if trolling or just stupid... Mario Kart simulates racing go-karts on shrooms, that doesn't make it a simulation game.

Sim: MS Flight Simulator
Not Sim: Crimson Skies
:rolleyes:

[QuantumMechanic]

If implemented properly, prone could be a good thing. Make it a class perk - say something that only combat medics and combat engineers can do. Make sure the standing to prone and prone to standing transition takes time and you are vulnerable.

Honestly this is one of the few gameplay elements that I *wish* PS2 borrowed from BF3 and the like.

[Whalenator]

Prone slows down gameplay.
While I would love it for realism, it's far too late to try and wrap the base design around having prone in-game. Not to mention the pace of PS2 is going to be slow enough what with the huge numbers of players present.

[Rbstr]

I don't really care either way. I don't understand the hate prone gets.

Crouching sucks, games don't need crouching, You want a crouching system?
Just make cover as tall as a person and poke out.

I don't see much more than a semantic difference.

[Kurtz]

Prone made the battlefield franchise worse. It isn't needed in PlanetSide 2, there's no reason to add it, and the game will be much better off without it.

I have to disagree on the comment that prone made BF worse. I don't care if its in PS2 or not, but I thought they did justice by adding prone into BF3.

In the 70 hours I've played BF3 (not a lot i know) i've seen 2 people camping in the corner with a LMG. If they were lucky enough to shoot me in the back it was hardly an effort to locate them when I respawned and kill them.

I thought the lack of prone in BFBC2 encouraged snipers to get cheap shots on me while i knelt behind a block that didn't cover my head. In BF3 If I'm suppressed I can go prone, lay down a med kit and come up prefiring. Hardly camping. If anything it protects me from camping snipers, AT whores and Noob tubers.

[Envenom]

The problem with prone is how it changes the gameplay style.

Compare BFBC2 to BF3.

BFBC2 had a lot more action, more attack, more movement. Since there was no prone in BFBC2 cover was higher and facilitated attack & move style gameplay. Hiding was harder and it encouraged more assault and thus more action. Camping in corners while making yourself small as possible wasn't an issue.

Gameplay with BFBC2 was quite awesome, fast paced, and fun.

BF3 had less cover (because of prone), more camping (because of prone), and less action (because prone rewards camping), and attack was discouraged due to prone putting attackers at more of a disadvantage. The targets shooting at them were smaller, harder to hit, and harder to spot.

Prone made the battlefield franchise worse. It isn't needed in PlanetSide 2, there's no reason to add it, and the game will be much better off without it.

And BF2, the greatest game of all of them in the franchise, used it to great effect with outstandingly positive feedback from the community. BC2 was heavily criticized for omitting this feature and it was a feature DEMANDED by the audience for BF3. And so it was put in. I'm not sure where you're getting this false notion that it made the franchise worse? This must be your misinformed opinion. This is one of the most beloved features of the BF series.

[Stardouser]

I have to disagree on this one.

In the 70 hours I've played BF3 (not a lot i know) i've seen 2 people camping in the corner with a LMG. If they were lucky enough to shoot me in the back it was hardly an effort to locate them when I respawned and kill them.

I thought the lack of prone in BFBC2 encouraged snipers to get cheap shots on me while i knelt behind a block that didn't cover my head. In BF3 If I'm suppressed I can go prone, lay down a med kit and come up prefiring. Hardly camping. If anything it protects me from camping snipers, AT whores and Noob tubers.

As far as corner camping goes, that's just as good crouched as prone. Perhaps better crouched, since a non-prone system makes the crouch position be the lowest cone of fire stance, and, since you won't be proning for that extra accuracy, you retain maneuverability.

And BF2, the greatest game of all of them, used it to great effect with outstandingly positive feedback from the community. BC2 was heavily criticized for omitting this feature and it was a feature DEMANDED by the audience for BF3. And so it was put in. I'm not sure where you're getting this false notion that it made the franchise worse? This must be your misinformed opinion. This is one of the most beloved features of the BF series.

A lot of people didn't like prone in BF2 but for a reason that no one would guess- Prone diving/dolphin diving. There are ways to not have prone diving besides complete excision of prone from the game.

[GreatMazinkaise]

Removing prone when games have had it for years(therefore, not just "modern" FPS) is being done specifically for the purpose of stopping prone because some people want to force others to run and gun and duel them out in the open. Forcing may not always be bad but when it's done to promote one legit gameplay style over another, it's bad.

And as I say, camping in BF3 isn't happening because of prone, that's laughable, it's happening because of KDR-centric players, and an unreasonably low TTK, 3D spotting and killcam.

And others have explained it better than me, I particularly like the explanation someone above said about how you can't avoid headshots.

Prone's not being removed... as far as we can tell it's not even in the game. Laying down on the ground is not a legitimate gameplay style in a game that calls itself Planetside.

Planetside was never a tactical warfare sim... it was a large scale strategic arcade shooter, and that's the way it ought to stay.

[Stardouser]

Prone's not being removed... as far as we can tell it's not even in the game. Laying down on the ground is not a legitimate gameplay style in a game that calls itself Planetside.

Planetside was never a tactical warfare sim... it was a large scale strategic arcade shooter, and that's the way it ought to stay.

Being able to prone is simply freedom of movement. In no way shape or form am I in support of anything that should bring up the word "sim".

[Fuse]

Removing prone when games have had it for years(therefore, not just "modern" FPS) is being done specifically for the purpose of stopping prone because some people want to force others to run and gun and duel them out in the open. Forcing may not always be bad but when it's done to promote one legit gameplay style over another, it's bad.

Who cares if other games let you prone? I'm not playing Americas Army, why steal features from other games if you don't feel they serve a distinct purpose in yours? Lots of games have bullet penetration, too, but I don't see that in any of our feature lists.

You think this is why they did it to ruin your play style. Some other random players think this is why the did it. Did anyone from the PS2 team say, "We're not doing prone because we want you to always be moving"? I don't think so. There are more factors than I care to list or could probably come up with that go in to this decision. The bottom line is that it adds little and requires a game to be designed with it in mind, not to mention the frustrations in game play that will arise because of it.

Besides, you can prone in CoD, it hasn't stopped anyone from running and gunning.

Not directly related: If a game's designers want a game to play a certain way then they design the mechanics to FORCE the player to play that way. Almost every design choice that goes in to a game is about either encouraging or forcing a player to act a certain way in at least some aspect.

[PoisonTaco]

A little torn on prone. On one hand PS2 seems like a game about movement and prone could make battles too static with lots of people camping. It could slow down the gameplay but that's something for beta to figure out. On the other hand prone could help infantry take cover from everything being shot at them.

Though giving snipers a short cloak AND prone? Hell no. Also I'd take the cloak over prone because cloaking is AWESOME.

[Envenom]

Not sure if trolling or just stupid... Mario Kart simulates racing go-karts on shrooms, that doesn't make it a simulation game.

Sim: MS Flight Simulator
Not Sim: Crimson Skies
:rolleyes:

The point he's trying to make is, though it's not a 'super doooper military shooter sim' compared to the rest of your mainstream shooters on the market today, Planetside would be considered more hardcore and realistic of the bunch.

If you think PS is arcadey, clearly you've never been in a CoD or BF match. It makes PS look pretty damn 'realistic'.

[MacXXcaM]

Not sure if trolling or just stupid... Mario Kart simulates racing go-karts on shrooms, that doesn't make it a simulation game.

Sim: MS Flight Simulator
Not Sim: Crimson Skies
:rolleyes:

Why would it not simulate a futuristic war? I see 3 factions battling with combined arms and different weapons over territories. It simulates a war in it's own logic as most war fps games do.

The amount of realism to it is a debatable point though. Same would go for BF3

[Fuse]

Why would it not simulate a futuristic war? I see 3 factions battling with combined arms and different weapons over territories. It simulates a war in it's own logic as most war fps games do.

The amount of realism to it is a debatable point though. Same would go for BF3

Ok, so you just don't know what "simulation" means in this context.

Welcome to gaming! PS2 will be a great first game for you. :rofl:

[QuantumMechanic]

Many people are pointing out that prone will only slow down gameplay. That's actually one of the reasons having prone interests me - from the *sounds* of things PS2 is going to be fast paced run-and-gun. That honestly worries me.

Of courses this is just pure speculation until we get in there and see for ourselves.

[LegioX]

WW2OL used prone and it is a MMO

[Envenom]

Many people are pointing out that prone will only slow down gameplay. That's actually one of the reasons having prone interests me - from the *sounds* of things PS2 is going to be fast paced run-and-gun. That honestly worries me.

Of courses this is just pure speculation until we get in there and see for ourselves.

The irony is that in previous threads people are lauding the fact that PS IS a slower game and not so fast paced like your modern day twitch shooters. These vets have no idea what they want...

[Zulthus]

WW2OL used prone and it is a MMO

It was a war simulator like ARMA. PS2 is not.

[Zulthus]

The irony is that in previous threads people are lauding the fact that PS IS a slower game and not so fast paced like your modern day twitch shooters. These vets have no idea what they want...

I'm not complaining about it slowing down gameplay, I'm complaining about the uses being dolphin diving and camping. You KNOW for a fact that that's what the vast majority of people will use it for.

[CuddlyChud]

I wouldn't say that prone encourages camping. Rather, it disincentivizes aggressive gameplay. Attacking against a prepared enemy is hard enough as it is. Defenders are already more accurate since they don't need to move and they have the benefit of cover. Prone simply gives them even more accuracy and more cover. The biggest downside of prone is the lack of mobility, but this is more disadvantageous to the attacking force than the defending force. Not having prone simply allows the attacking force a bit more parity with the defending force.

[LegioX]

I'm not complaining about it slowing down gameplay, I'm complaining about the uses being dolphin diving and camping. You KNOW for a fact that that's what the vast majority of people will use it for.

And all you have to do is limit the ability to go prone and have a cool down effect. Just b/c prone is in, doesnt mean dolphin diving will be the norm.

Hell, people going prone in BF 3 were the easiest to kill. Never moved and just camped.

[Stardouser]

It was a war simulator like ARMA. PS2 is not.

Bear in mind that there is not some list out there of extra things that a sim must have that arcade games don't have.

WW2OL is a sim for other reasons, not because it has prone. And when I say it's a sim, it's a sim in terms of the gameplay, much like ArmA. A lot of people are hoping that PS2 will in fact be a simulator of war with arcade gameplay, meaning, of an overall strategic battle instead of deathmatch. That's what war simulator means to me, and has nothing to do with the levels of realism of the gameplay, but has to do with the scale and persistence of the game.

Putting prone in doesn't make it a sim in terms of gameplay realism, it doesn't suddenly change from arcade to ArmA because of prone.

[Gandhi]

The irony is that in previous threads people are lauding the fact that PS IS a slower game and not so fast paced like your modern day twitch shooters. These vets have no idea what they want...
Well I guess when you only think in extremes it's hard to understand people who are promoting the middle ground. Faster than prone camping, slower than BF3, that's where the middle ground lies.

[MacXXcaM]

Ok, so you just don't know what "simulation" means in this context.

Welcome to gaming! PS2 will be a great first game for you. :rofl:

No, I have not seen a 100% valid definition of "simulation" in a FPS context. Normally games are called sims when they're exeptionally realistic but I haven't found a game that would really count.
ArmA is a much a shooter game as is Planetside. There may be some differences in pace but nothing that would let them be classified as different genres.

It comes down to what the word simulation means: ArmA simulates modern war from a more tactical, low-paced perspective. PS does the same for a futuristic/scifi setting while being multiplayer only.
Both games want to feel "real" in their own context.

[Envenom]

I'm not complaining about it slowing down gameplay, I'm complaining about the uses being dolphin diving and camping. You KNOW for a fact that that's what the vast majority of people will use it for.

That's not even an argument. Do you know HOW EASY IT IS to implement a movement restriction on that? A delay or something? lol. You're grabbing at straws now.

[Stardouser]

That's not even an argument. Do you know HOW EASY IT IS to implement a movement restriction on that? A delay or something? lol. You're grabbing at straws now.

CoD is a perfect example. It has prone, and you cannot prone dive. You can't prone dive in BF3 either, but I won't say BF3 is a perfect example, because it's very slow to get in and out of prone.

[LegioX]

Difference between simulation and arcade

Simulation:
Have to go through Aircraft checklist to takeoff.

Arcade: Press 1 button to start engines and go.

[ShadoViper]

Arma, OpFlash, WW2OL, Ro1 (not 2 lol)

= Realism Simulation based games.


Or

MILSIM

Simulations based heavily on lifelike movement, tactics, etc. keeping it as close to "real" as you can to simulate a war/battle.

Just so we can move beyond this problem.

[SoNaR]

No prone = getting headshot by snipers whenever you try to take cover, that was 91% of the reason why I stopped playing BFBC2...

As for camping, people will camp even if they don't have prone, not having it won't change a thing. Bad players will always be bad players.

[Envenom]

No prone = getting headshot by snipers whenever you try to take cover, that was 91% of the reason why I stopped playing BFBC2...

As for camping, people will camp even if they don't have prone, not having it won't change a thing. Bad players will always be bad players.

Agreed.

[Hmr85]

In my opinion prone is a one of those features that I wouldn't be upset about if it made it into the game or not.

[Zulthus]

That's not even an argument. Do you know HOW EASY IT IS to implement a movement restriction on that? A delay or something? lol. You're grabbing at straws now.

I can bring up your attempt at making an argument for keeping boundaries in, but you didn't have one. Prone is the same concept. You have crouch, why do you need prone? Just like all you said is we have the terrain to fly over, why use the ocean?

The game has already been designed without prone in mind so I think we're okay. Crouching won't be a problem since terrain and cover objects will be tall enough to protect you. There, no reason for having prone now. You can escape enemy fire, and since apparently all you want it for, crouch takes that role.

[Envenom]

I can bring up your attempt at making an argument for keeping boundaries in, but you didn't have one. Prone is the same concept. You have crouch, why do you need prone? Just like all you said is we have the terrain to fly over, why use the ocean?

The game has already been designed without prone in mind so I think we're okay. Crouching won't be a problem since terrain and cover objects will be tall enough to protect you. There, no reason for having prone now. You can escape enemy fire, and since apparently all you want it for, crouch takes that role.


Giving the players further options to seek avenues of gameplay does sound like a really bad idea, you're right. I apologize for even bringing this up.

[SoNaR]

I can bring up your attempt at making an argument for keeping boundaries in, but you didn't have one. Prone is the same concept. You have crouch, why do you need prone? Just like all you said is we have the terrain to fly over, why use the ocean?

The game has already been designed without prone in mind so I think we're okay. Crouching won't be a problem since terrain and cover objects will be tall enough to protect you. There, no reason for having prone now. You can escape enemy fire, and since apparently all you want it for, crouch takes that role.

I don't think we can pass judgement on the cover or the crouch mechanic till the beta tbh, for all we know the cover might shield your entire body or it might go up to your chest making you an easy target for a headshot sniper. :/

Also prone can be used for a number of other things besides taking cover.... like dodging bullets. :)

[Rare Raisin]

Anyone else feel like this thread is turning into a recipe for rage? :)

I'd rather play the beta without prone to start with. As many have suggested it can cause all sorts of problems.

I just picture a Max or two with a group of other classes storming in and imagine me just thinking i know! Prone!! Great now I've prolonged the time before my inevitable death and pinned down...now to just wait here until I'm either blown up or torn to sheds! Maybe have a slight hope of backup but in most games that rarely happened.

I think I'd just laugh though. I always did when I was in similar situations in different games. To me it's kinda of amusing when you know you're f*****. Especially when it happens so quickly and enemy force just completely destroys most of the defenders in seconds and you're one of the few remaining and just thinking well...maybe I'll take a couple with me at least.

[Mackenz]

Of course, prone might be somewhat moot given that Light Assault have jet packs.

Prone players would probably find it very difficult to get vertical elevation to shoot, plus light assaulting players will have a height advantage on shooting down.

Sniping might have a place with prone, but that might be thin gruel as an argument.

[Zulthus]

Giving the players further options to seek avenues of gameplay does sound like a really bad idea, you're right. I apologize for even bringing this up.

Says the man who wants to confine us to the continent, denying us a way to sneak behind the enemy. Hypocrite.

[Zulthus]

Also prone can be used for a number of other things besides taking cover.... like dodging bullets. :)

Uh, I'm pretty sure that is taking cover? :confused:

[Rare Raisin]

Uh, I'm pretty sure that is taking cover? :confused:

:lol:

[SoNaR]

Uh, I'm pretty sure that is taking cover? :confused:

I'm thinking in 2142 terms, were you could turn and prone in such a way that you dodged bullets; if there was no cover for you to run to. (that is a whole other game of course so it might not work in ps2) :P

[Algo]

I just wanted to say that a sniper will shoot your face off far easier if you are prone rather than just (oh god advanced mechanics) sprint zig zagging.

[Envenom]

Says the man who wants to confine us to the continent, denying us a way to sneak behind the enemy. Hypocrite.

No argument... So let's bring up an irrelevant point to shift focus. Good skills. :love:

[Saintlycow]

everyone will be lying down. boring

[Gonefshn]

.... like dodging bullets. :)

He is.... "The one" !!!

:D

[Zulthus]

No argument... So let's bring up an irrelevant point to shift focus. Good skills. :love:

LOL, I like how you're trying to dodge the fact that you can't keep a position to save your life. First, you want to restrict what other players can do, now you're trying to give them more, and a meaningless one, I might add.

This is common with new people to the forums. Nothing left to say here. :lol:

[sylphaen]

He is.... "The one" !!!

:D

lol
Great idea ! Slow time shields should be in too !
:D

[Zulthus]

lol
Great idea ! Slow time shields should be in too !
:D

This would be a neat special ability to have :D

Matrix:The Matrix Neo Dodging Bullets - YouTube

[Envenom]

LOL, I like how you're trying to dodge the fact that you can't keep a position to save your life. First, you want to restrict what other players can do, now you're trying to give them more, and a meaningless one, I might add.

This is common with new people to the forums. Nothing left to say here. :lol:

I've supported prone from the beginning. Just because you lack the skills to effectively deal with someone lying statically on the ground in an FPS really isn't a concern of mine. :love:

[Zulthus]

I've supported prone from the beginning. Just because you lack the skills to effectively deal with someone lying statically on the ground in an FPS really isn't a concern of mine. :love:

You're dodging your fail like Neo dodging the bullets in the video above... until you respond to what I've said what you say holds absolutely no water.

[sylphaen]

You're dodging your fail like Neo dodging the bullets in the video above... until you respond to what I've said what you say holds absolutely no water.

Be careful, it might be a fail-lure !
:rofl:

[Gonefshn]

I've supported prone from the beginning. Just because you lack the skills to effectively deal with someone lying statically on the ground in an FPS really isn't a concern of mine. :love:

If you look back at past posts you will notice I have defended you a few times even by name stating I was supporting your point. Trying to help you out here but putting emoticons at the end of every post you make while being snarky with someone is making you look like an asshole.

[Stardouser]

LOL, I like how you're trying to dodge the fact that you can't keep a position to save your life. First, you want to restrict what other players can do, now you're trying to give them more, and a meaningless one, I might add.

This is common with new people to the forums. Nothing left to say here. :lol:

Wait, so you agree that not having restrictive out of bounds matches with prone!

But if it comes down to it, prone is a less serious issue, we must not have restrictive out of bounds.

[Zulthus]

Wait, so you agree that not having restrictive out of bounds matches with prone!

But if it comes down to it, prone is a less serious issue, we must not have restrictive out of bounds.

I'm not saying it matches, but it's the same concept. He wants to increase the amount of ways players can tackle situations but at the same time he doesn't. So I'm tryin' to understand what is real position is.

[sylphaen]

Just adding something a bit off-topic but adding prone might result in this kind of gameplay:
http://www.findthecat.net/

On MMO scale !

[Death2All]

People have a difficult time wrapping their heads around the concept that just because a mechanic is used in a particular popular game that does not mean it must be put in ALL games. Battlefield and Planetside are two entirely different games, the only similarity is that they're FPS games with an emphasis on vehicle combat. The logistics are so vastly different that you can't just throw in random game mechanics from one game to the other because it simply wouldn't work.


Prone is a prime example of mechanics that do not shift well. Mechanics such as prone "work" (I use that term lightly because it's an awful mechanic that doesn't add much to gameplay other than camping) in a session based shooter such as Battlefield or CoD because once the round ends, it's all over. It's about doing whatever is most efficient to win the round, whatever the cost. Planetside is a game about persistence and capturing territories. When you add in too many mechanics that slow gameplay down to a snail's pace you get a pretty shit game that resembles....Well, Battlefield.


A lot of people are really hung up on Battlefield but I think you may be one of the worst offenders, Emvenom. Some things simply won't work. You can bash veterans players all you want saying they lack the skills to lay prone (lolwat), but it just comes to the very nature of the game.

[Envenom]

If you look back at past posts you will notice I have defended you a few times even by name stating I was supporting your point. Trying to help you out here but putting emoticons at the end of every post you make while being snarky with someone is making you look like an asshole.

Thanks. I appreciate that.

I think prone overall is a pretty moot point. It's unlikely they will put it in the game since many of the systems are already in place. It's refreshing to see how passionate people get over such insignificant things in this game. This really is a testament to the developers who created PS1.

I would still like to see prone in the game. Will it happen? Probably not. This is alpha though so who knows. If PS2 wants to keep up with the AAA modern day shooters out on the market today, features like this might be important to consider though. Despite the vocal minority of this forum, the truth of the matter is that the games main audience will be drawn from the CoD and BF crowds and will be the life blood of this game. A game of this magnitude and ambition can't be supported by 'the vets' alone. CoD and BF are the biggest and most successful franchises out there right now and you will be gaming beside them whether you like it or not. When the numbers start pouring in, so will the voices.

Who knows what will happen. :)

[Gonefshn]

Thanks. I appreciate that.

Your welcome, and I hope there is no sarcasm in there cause that comment was meant to help you out so everyone doesn't hate you lol.

When the numbers start pouring in, so will the voices.

I've been digging my bomb shelter for that nuclear bomb to hit since they announced the game.

[Malorn]

I thought the lack of prone in BFBC2 encouraged snipers to get cheap shots on me while i knelt behind a block that didn't cover my head. In BF3 If I'm suppressed I can go prone, lay down a med kit and come up prefiring. Hardly camping. If anything it protects me from camping snipers, AT whores and Noob tubers.

You learned pretty quick in BFBC2 which cover protects you and which doesn't. If there's a problem with cover the solution is simple - add more of it, and or make the existing cover better. Prone is, at best, a crutch.

It only added stagnation to the game and an excuse to remove cover and discourage assault.

[Stardouser]

I've been digging my bomb shelter for that nuclear bomb to hit since they announced the game.

When the numbers start pouring in, you can be well assured that BF players will be disappointed if there are restrictive out of bounds funnelling you into meatgrinds. Escaping that very thing in Battlefailed 3 is one of the dream-inspiring thoughts we have about Planetside.

As for prone, there might be some haters, but for the most part, they won't be against prone per se, but against dolphin diving(which can be prevented without slicing prone out completely).

[SKYeXile]

Hey guys, im new to Planetside, i have a wealth of experience in battlefield though, but recently the game has become dead to me for various reasons. Planetside looks good and all but it need to look more like battlefield, obviously the best thing to do would be add as many elements from battlefield to planetside 2 as we can, starting with prone. This will give the game a great more amount of depth(camping) it will also increase the gameplay(dolphin) experience and make for some fun(tediously boring) battles.

What do you guys think?

[Envenom]

Hey guys, im new to Planetside, i have a wealth of experience in battlefield though, but recently the game has become dead to me for various reasons. Planetside looks good and all but it need to look more like battlefield, obviously the best thing to do would be add as many elements from battlefield to planetside 2 as we can, starting with prone. This will give the game a great more amount of depth(camping) it will also increase the gameplay(dolphin) experience and make for some fun(tediously boring) battles.

What do you guys think?

FINALLY we can agree on something. Spot on mate.

[Immigrant]

Hey guys, im new to Planetside, i have a wealth of experience in battlefield though, but recently the game has become dead to me for various reasons. Planetside looks good and all but it need to look more like battlefield, obviously the best thing to do would be add as many elements from battlefield to planetside 2 as we can, starting with prone. This will give the game a great more amount of depth(camping) it will also increase the gameplay(dolphin) experience and make for some fun(tediously boring) battles.

What do you guys think?

SKYeX being his usual sarcastic self. :thumbsup: :rofl:

On the topic: no it doesn't.

[Nick]

Hell no to prone..planetside and BF3'ish games are COMPLETELY different.

Funny because Planetside 2 is basically a BF3 clone w/ Planetside's scale, vehicles, weapons, theme, and classes.

But hey, Bad Company 2 didn't have prone either. So I guess it's a Bad Company 2 clone.

[Zulthus]

Funny because Planetside 2 is basically a BF3 clone w/ Planetside's scale, vehicles, weapons, theme, and classes.

But hey, Bad Company 2 didn't have prone either. So I guess it's a Bad Company 2 clone.

Funny because Battlefield is a Doom clone.

[Razicator]

lol I picture Katamari squads, similar to this:
Best Action Scenes Ever!!! (Indian Robot Endhiran) - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yBnl_krN_U&t=1m55s)

http://www.palzoo.net/file/pic/gallery/1311_view.jpg

[Envenom]

Funny because Battlefield is a Doom clone.

http://500memes.com/plog-content/images/meme/futurama-fry/not-sure-if-trolling-or-just-stupid.jpg

[Zulthus]

http://500memes.com/plog-content/images/meme/futurama-fry/not-sure-if-trolling-or-just-stupid.jpg

Are you stupid? You know that every FPS is a doom clone. Let's not start this.

[Hmr85]

Are you stupid? You know that every FPS is a doom clone. Let's not start this.

Doom is a clone of Wolfenstein. ;)

[Zulthus]

Doom is a clone of Wolfenstein.

That as well. I forgot which came first. :p

Eh ya know what, I googled it for the hell of it and every FPS is a clone of Maze War :D

[Razicator]

Doom is a clone of Wolfenstein. ;)

If we go down this chain, everything's a clone of Jesus because of the whole respawning thing. Oh and because of his machine guns too.

[Hmr85]

If we go down this chain, everything's a clone of Jesus because of the whole respawning thing. Oh and because of his machine guns too.

The Machine gun is a clone of the Sturmgewehr 44. Obviously it came first. :lol:

[Zulthus]

The Machine gun is a clone of the Sturmgewehr 44. Obviously it came first. :lol:

Obviously, every STG-44 is a clone of the Flintlock :cool:

[Envenom]

If we go down this chain, everything's a clone of Jesus because of the whole respawning thing. Oh and because of his machine guns too.

Even Jesus had prone...

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-jmaBMrgaWus/T1KDb7-fjqI/AAAAAAAABhw/WnlMdAPkPMQ/s400/087+Jesus+on+Ground+2.jpg

[Hmr85]

Obviously, every STG-44 is a clone of the Flintlock :cool:

Obviously the Flintlock is a clone of the Blunderbuss. :D

[Zulthus]

Obviously the Flintlock is a clone of the Blunderbuss. :D

Which was quite clearly a clone of the slingshot!

[Razicator]

Even Jesus had prone...

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-jmaBMrgaWus/T1KDb7-fjqI/AAAAAAAABhw/WnlMdAPkPMQ/s400/087+Jesus+on+Ground+2.jpg

Hmm... Jesus DID have VS-like levitation on water, as well as flight to heaven, and future-prediction capabilities. Also an uncanny ability to make someone feel guilty.

[Xyntech]

Even Jesus had prone...

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-jmaBMrgaWus/T1KDb7-fjqI/AAAAAAAABhw/WnlMdAPkPMQ/s400/087+Jesus+on+Ground+2.jpg

That guy was a hacker. I swear some guys killed him and he got right back up without any medics around, then flew off without even wearing a jump pack.

Maybe it was just because of the game being in Alpha though...

[Draz]

I'd have no problem with PS2 having prone, but it doesn't NEED it.

[Hmr85]

Which was quite clearly a clone of the slingshot!

Sling shot is clearly a clone of the sling

[Zulthus]

Sling shot is clearly a clone of the sling

Clone of string.

https://encrypted-tbn1.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQLan0xZiW2pQrG2xoRvwpekJU8vXlav s53_xvUWYzxkioOjRjiwg

[Hmr85]

Clone of string.

https://encrypted-tbn1.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQLan0xZiW2pQrG2xoRvwpekJU8vXlav s53_xvUWYzxkioOjRjiwg

What type of string are we talking about here?

String is a clone of cotton.

[Kriegson]

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lscbpacVcp1qdtxo4.gif

[Zulthus]

What type of string are we talking about here?

String is a clone of cotton.

Clone of atoms.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-RuFYhFeOheA/Tugn3cB_OBI/AAAAAAAAazM/lprl4ObRsw8/Chuck%2BNorris%2BCheckmate.jpeg

The hell are we doing? This is waaaay off topic :lol:

[Hmr85]

Clone of atoms.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-RuFYhFeOheA/Tugn3cB_OBI/AAAAAAAAazM/lprl4ObRsw8/Chuck%2BNorris%2BCheckmate.jpeg

The hell are we doing? This is waaaay off topic :lol:


Atoms are a clone of Dark matter. Yes it exists. :) Check mate one for the H. :D

We are goofing off ofc. Back on topic though. I am going to rescind my previous comments from before and say no to Prone.

[Dartan]

Even Jesus had prone...

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-jmaBMrgaWus/T1KDb7-fjqI/AAAAAAAABhw/WnlMdAPkPMQ/s400/087+Jesus+on+Ground+2.jpg

LOL, a lot of biblical scholars not indoctrinated into christianity are pretty sure Jesus never existed (http://freethoughtblogs.com/carrier/archives/1026).

[Graywolves]

I don't see prone doing anything else other than slowing down the game. Not interested in this or dolphin dives.

[Razicator]

LOL, a lot of biblical scholars not indoctrinated into christianity are pretty sure Jesus never existed (http://freethoughtblogs.com/carrier/archives/1026).

Who invited THIS guy? "Guys, guys, the joke is wrong because x y and z therefore you should not find it funny. You should peer review scholarly journals to fully explain this joke to death."

Not to mention actually inviting religious arguments into this thread... classy man.

[Toppopia]

I don't see prone doing anything else other than slowing down the game. Not interested in this or dolphin dives.

The only time i would use prone would be to lie on a hill, lie in a doorway, or quickly hide from a tank column moving towards me. So as long as there is lots of bushes or stuff to hide behind, then i don't care whether prone is in or not.

[Goku]

Simple answer. No.

[Xyntech]

Simple answer. No.

I'm prone to agree.

Fuck, I think I'm getting loopy. Better take a break from the board.

[Vancha]

6 pages since I last posted and I still haven't seen an example of how prone benefits gameplay (not the individual).

On the other hand, there's a fair few flaws I could probably throw its way.

[Envenom]

6 pages since I last posted and I still haven't seen an example of how prone benefits gameplay (not the individual).

On the other hand, there's a fair few flaws I could probably throw its way.

You're not reading hard enough. The pros and cons have beaten mercilessly for hours now. Christ.

[KnightHawk ECID]

Cert? If they were to do it though make it so your' turn angle is very low so u have to reposition a lot.

[Vancha]

You're not reading hard enough. The pros and cons have beaten mercilessly for hours now. Christ.
The pros and cons for whom? This is why I separated the gameplay and the individual. I've seen plenty of arguing about it being beneficial for the individual and detrimental to the gameplay, but nothing about how it's beneficial to the game.

For an individual, the benefits of making yourself a smaller target or a less visible target are obvious, as is the disadvantage of less mobility, but I'd probably consider all three to be a detriment to gameplay as a whole (at least to the extent that prone does them).

Compare it to crouch...Crouch is a far softer mechanic. The movement speed decrease is less, they're still a visible target, there's still a significant center mass and it's more dynamic - crouching is far less of an investment because you can immediately get out of it, there's a constant weighing-up of whether you want to be standing or crouching in the moment. Prone meanwhile is more of a "now I'm down here" sort of thing; there's far more vulnerability between the states of standing and prone...It's more binary.

Also consider the landscape of PS. Do you want everyone being able to decrease their visibility to the extent that prone does while the maps are so much bigger in scale? Would it make for better battles outside if everyone could be hugging the ground? Would the battles be better anywhere if everyone was capable of being a less mobile, less visible, smaller target? Would it improve the flow of the game?

I can't say I've really seen that spoken about, beyond people saying it'd slow down the game (again, nothing about how it'd benefit gameplay).

[Envenom]

Cert? If they were to do it though make it so your' turn angle is very low so u have to reposition a lot.

Now that's a cool idea. Make it a cert. I like this. Keeps the proners happy like me, and if you don't like it, don't cert it. BANG

[maradine]

6 pages since I last posted and I still haven't seen an example of how prone benefits gameplay (not the individual).

Example: it provides the player a situationally relevant tactical choice: forfeit mobility for increased accuracy and a reduced hit profile. Providing users a tactical choice is a Good Thing.

I'm not arguing for including prone in Planetside 2. I don't care. I'm arguing that not seeing a single potential benefit to gameplay is intentionally disingenuous and (I would have hoped) beneath anyone with a login here.

[Gonefshn]

I like this. Keeps the proners happy like me, and if you don't like it, don't cert it. BANG

I think what the people who don't like it have a problem with is that other people can do it, not that they can. So that really isn't a valid point at all.

[Envenom]

I think what the people who don't like it have a problem with is that other people can do it, not that they can. So that really isn't a valid point at all.

Well I don't like the fact that they can use air warefare since I normally play ground. Life isn't fair?

[Gonefshn]

Well I don't like the fact that they can use air warefare since I normally play ground. Life isn't fair?

I didn't say it wasn't fair. It's a fine idea to make it a cert I just meant that "if you don't like it, dont cert it" is not a valid solution because it doesn't satisfy someone who doesn't like it. in fact it would make them hate it worse probably.

[Envenom]

I didn't say it wasn't fair. It's a fine idea to make it a cert I just meant that "if you don't like it, dont cert it" is not a valid solution because it doesn't satisfy someone who doesn't like it. in fact it would make them hate it worse probably.

*IF* it was ever implemented though, I think the cert suggestion is probably the most fair and reasonable solution so far. Can you agree with that?

Or is it the all or nothing philosophy?

[Vancha]

Example: it provides the player a situationally relevant tactical choice: forfeit mobility for increased accuracy and a reduced hit profile. Providing users a tactical choice is a Good Thing.

I'm not arguing for including prone in Planetside 2. I don't care. I'm arguing that not seeing a single potential benefit to gameplay is intentionally disingenuous and (I would have hoped) beneath anyone with a login here.
I already addressed that in my post after that. Crouch is the same choice, but it's more dynamic and less extreme. Is the extent to which prone reduces someone's hit profile, mobility and visibility actually beneficial to Planetside 2's specific gameplay?

[Graywolves]

I want a poll so I can just vote no.

[maradine]

Can't really answer that 'til I've got a screen in front of me and a zillion flashlight bolts screaming in.

edit - @Vancha

[Vancha]

So then merely providing players with a tactical choice doesn't necessarily make it a good inclusion. :p

I actually wonder if the reverse wouldn't be better? A quick spurt of mobility in exchange for firing capability. Something like a dash/slide/leap/roll etc.

[Envenom]

I want a poll so I can just vote no.

Is there a way to add a poll to this post? I'd love to do that but I don't see the option.

[maradine]

So then merely providing players with a tactical choice doesn't necessarily make it a good inclusion. :p

I actually wonder if the reverse wouldn't be better? A quick spurt of mobility in exchange for firing capability. Something like a dash/slide/leap/roll etc.

Conceded, and it might be difficult in the engine to boot. But it provides a meaningful mechanic in similar games, and so dismissing it with prejudice sans play is a bridge too far, methinks.

Found me a quote button this time. :cool:

[SirDart]

Prone - unmentioned benefits:
- Could prone in front of oncoming vehicles to avoid being struck (imagine Magrider floating over you) Vanguard clearance may not be sufficient.
- Imagine confusion of running into a room with lots of dead soldiers, and several prone infantry, very hard to tell apart.

More Obvious Pros:
- Harder to spot
- Smaller Profile from ground units
- Steadier shot

Cons:
- Any vehicle or Max Rides over you (wheel contact), you would be dead as a larger surface would get squishied
- Air units may be able to spot you easily
- Movement is very limited
- Arc of aim greatly reduced (perhaps -25 to +10 degrees angle)
- Limited usefulness in close quarters combat

I could see only Infiltrators having this ability, and even then the fact that Magriders maybe couldn't run over them, might actually add imbalance to the factions!

I would see the main use here being only Snipers in far away hillsides camping bases and outposts.

[Pyreal]

Nah. Encourages camping more than action.

[Vagabond]

I could care less if prone was in this game or not, but the arguments against prone seem ridiculous and exaggerated. I am wondering how people can tell how prone significantly slows gameplay. There really is no proof for that. In fact, if people are allowed to make that argument, I could easily say that going prone increases my chances of surviving in many situations, therefore I would be able to contribute more to my faction (since I'm not dead, you know). I've been playing a lot of BF3 lately and prone certainly does not seem to slow down gameplay, considering the ones that tend to go prone are either snipers, support, or people taking cover.

Also, making the claim that an army sized group of players will go prone in the middle of battle is ridiculous and not likely to happen unless it were a bunch of outfits trolling. I do not think it will promote camping either. Those who camp will camp, regardless of the stance they are composing. Camping is a legitimate tactic anyway and be a great method to defend a point. Speaking of which, I do not see an issue with dolphin diving either. It makes for easier headshots in my experience (as is with prone in general anyhow).

Overall, it does not seem that having prone or not would make a significant difference. If there is no prone, people will crouch. People will adjust to that mechanic and will be taking cover in one form or another, whether they are snipers or medics and what have you.

OP did bring up a good point however. Forum users and vets tend to be vocal minorities. These days, casual players make up the bulk of a lot of games (which is why CoD and BF3 are in the state that they are in). Prone is a feature that is found in most games and so casual players may find the omission of prone an outdated feature. And since casual players make up the bulk of most games (and PS2 will be relying on large populations), any potential turn off could easily make or break a game. Not saying that minority opinion is insignificant, but could be unpopular and literally repel newer, less informed players (see: elitism).

[Envenom]

I could care less if prone was in this game or not, but the arguments against prone seem ridiculous and exaggerated. I am wondering how people can tell how prone significantly slows gameplay. There really is no proof for that. In fact, if people are allowed to make that argument, I could easily say that going prone increases my chances of surviving in many situations, therefore I would be able to contribute more to my faction (since I'm not dead, you know). I've been playing a lot of BF3 lately and prone certainly does not seem to slow down gameplay, considering the ones that tend to go prone are either snipers, support, or people taking cover.

Also, making the claim that an army sized group of players will go prone in the middle of battle is ridiculous and not likely to happen unless it were a bunch of outfits trolling. I do not think it will promote camping either. Those who camp will camp, regardless of the stance they are composing. Camping is a legitimate tactic anyway and be a great method to defend a point. Speaking of which, I do not see an issue with dolphin diving either. It makes for easier headshots in my experience (as is with prone in general anyhow).

Overall, it does not seem that having prone or not would make a significant difference. If there is no prone, people will crouch. People will adjust to that mechanic and will be taking cover in one form or another, whether they are snipers or medics and what have you.

OP did bring up a good point however. Forum users and vets tend to be vocal minorities. These days, casual players make up the bulk of a lot of games (which is why CoD and BF3 are in the state that they are in). Prone is a feature that is found in most games and so casual players may find the omission of prone an outdated feature. And since casual players make up the bulk of most games (and PS2 will be relying on large populations), any potential turn off could easily make or break a game. Not saying that minority opinion is insignificant, but could be unpopular and literally repel newer, less informed players (see: elitism).

Great post. Sums up my feelings exactly. Many of the vets in here are terrified of change and living in 2003.

[SKYeXile]

Great post. Sums up my feelings exactly. Many of the vets in here are terrified of change and living in 2003.

I hear games are better in 2012

If Quake was done today - YouTube

[Zulthus]

I hear games are better in 2012

If Quake was done today - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1ZtBCpo0eU)

That's so true. God damn. I remember when games used to be good. But sadly we have these people that want every damned game to be a cookie cutter piece of shit.

From all of the comments on youtube, to most of the new people on this forum, 'It looks like halo" "lawlz BF ripoff" "where iz the m16 and stuffz?" "PUT EVERYTHING FROM BATTLEFIELD IN TO THIS GAME"

Go away.


I sound way overly dramatic but PS2 is my last hope for gaming. All these FPS clones bore me to death, there is no originality in RPGs, I was especially looking forwards to an Elder Scrolls MMO, but after I saw what they were doing with it, I lost all hope in Bethesda. Looks just like WoW. There are no games on the horizon but PS2 that have my interest.

I hope I can play PS2 for many years to come. If this game manages to fail...

http://karlmac.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/59Vt6.gif

[Bags]

Wait, someone really asked where the m16 is? Granted, it's my favorite AR, but still...

[Toppopia]

Wait, someone really asked where the m16 is? Granted, it's my favorite AR, but still...

i don't know about the M16. But the AN-94 is pretty cool. Or other cool Russian weapons. ;)

[Zulthus]

Wait, someone really asked where the m16 is? Granted, it's my favorite AR, but still...

Yeah man. Go read through TB's youtube videos. Some of the damn commenters make me want to rip my sack off. :rolleyes:

[Bags]

Gauss is cooler than any rl rifle I've seen though.

[GreatMazinkaise]

Great post. Sums up my feelings exactly. Many of the vets in here are terrified of change and living in 2003.

We're not terrified... it's just that we want to play a successor to Planetside, not an mmo version of whatever shooters are popular these days.

Kissing the dirt just looks awful; I don't like that pose on my miniatures and I sure as hell don't want to see it in an FPS game. You've already got ADS; there's no reason to add more incentive to stop in place.

[Toppopia]

Yeah man. Go read through TB's youtube videos. Some of the damn commenters make me want to rip my sack off. :rolleyes:

I couldn't be bothered looking for those comments, but i mostly saw people saying is this free to play, then talking about camo and stuff. Saw nothing on guns.

[Bags]

In his latest they were arguing about christian vs eco terrorists.

[Toppopia]

In his latest they were arguing about christian vs eco terrorists.

What??? :huh: That has nothing to do with Planetside 2.

[SKYeXile]

If this game manages to fail...

http://karlmac.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/59Vt6.gif

Yea pretty much thats me, if this is shit, fuck it, I'm out.

i can get used to the ADS and the tactical play for sure, you know id much rather be jumping off walls and flaking people in the face, but hey, its an MMO you want the skill gap to be a short as possible to attract as many people as possible, best make it a "realistic" shooter.

[Winfernal]

I'm neutral to prone.

While it's not needed, i can't see why the option of laying down on the ground makes such a huge debate in the community. It's not about realism, come on! :)

[SKYeXile]

^FC meet and greet, in san fransico, naturally.

[EVILoHOMER]

BFBC2 worked far better than BF3 with no prone because it keeps the pace of the fight up and snipers balanced and not annoying. As soon as you give people prone, then you give them a chance to camp and it isn't fun for anybody and doesn't help the team.

[Jonny]

BFBC2 worked far better than BF3 with no prone because it keeps the pace of the fight up and snipers balanced and not annoying. As soon as you give people prone, then you give them a chance to camp and it isn't fun for anybody and doesn't help the team.

This. Its a camping tool and I don't agree it's needed at all.

[Envenom]

Yea pretty much thats me, if this is shit, fuck it, I'm out.

i can get used to the ADS and the tactical play for sure, you know id much rather be jumping off walls and flaking people in the face, but hey, its an MMO you want the skill gap to be a short as possible to attract as many people as possible, best make it a "realistic" shooter.


hahaha soo melodramatic. "If this game isn't MIND BLOWING I'm walking. That's it guys. I'm out!"

You must be crossing your fingers your gaming career doesn't abrupty end in a few months. :p

[Vagabond]

:rolleyes:

Again, I could care less about prone being in this game (it's already being omitted), but it seems most people are blowing the issue way out of proportion. Adding prone most likely will not ruin an entire game. Additionally, I am sure excessive camping will not even be an issue in this game. Those who camp will most likely be left behind while everyone else works on the objective, that is just how this sort of game works. Also, camping is a legitimate tactic while defending (people will still camp with crouch, they will just camp in a different manner. People will adjust). Prone has been in games for a long time now. Adding prone does not make a game "cookie cutter" or a copy. Even if prone was included, restrictions will be placed on it as there have been restrictions on jumping in many games to prevent bunny hopping.

Anyhow, I am just repeating myself (and so is everyone else), but I really feel that these arguments have little basis and are mostly assumptions.

[2coolforu]

I don't really see a need for prone, just make crouched as accurate. The only additional thing it does is hide your silhouette and if you're wanting stealth gameplay take an infil or attack at night.

In a game where we have cloakers and such prone will just slow the pace way, way down. It also leads to all sorts of problems like dolphin diving if its not done very, very well. Going prone also massively favors defenders, defenders already have battlements and bases so I think adding another huge advantage will just slow the pace down far too much.

[DrifterBG]

With the layout of the bases, and terrain, and gameplay mechanics... prone will not be needed.

This isn't a game where you have 32 players per side, with maybe an aircraft or two from the enemy shooting at you, and one/two tanks at a time...

We're going to have scores of tanks, squadrons of aircraft, and armies of hundreds shooting at you.

Prone, if anything, will only be silly as everyone will enter the base, fall on their face, and clog up the halls for their team mates.

I can barely thing of ANY time where prone would have been useful in Planetside 1, and where it won't get you or your team mates killed in Planetside 2.

[Rumblepit]

i wouldnt mind some prone in ps2. it would have to be restricted to classes , and locations, outside only.

[NEWSKIS]

For me I'm in the middle. I don't mind it being put in as long as it doesnt take a rediculous amount of the devs time and it has restrictions on what classes/weapons you can go prone with ( aka no maxes going prone ).

Although I have a feeling the amount of time it would take to implement it wouldnt be short.

[stonelizard]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yg2u_De8j5o

[NewSith]

LOL, it's fun, but prone is probably the only thing I'm absolutely against. Even concidering that sniping is all I usually do in most games.

[RedKnights]

&quot;NOOOOOOOOO&quot; Compilation - YouTube

I really don't think it needs prone, I've always thought it was just a camping method.

[Slib]

PS2 definitely doesn't need prone. I'd rather not have it at all.

They could probably make it work, but it would take a lot more redesigning and effort to add in something that really isn't necessary to the gameplay style.
I could see it may be only usable for infiltrators, and having a slow transition (making dolphin dives impossible). It would also have to restrict you ability to turn; you would be able to look freely in about a 140 degree arc in front of you. Turning further than that would lower your gun and slowly turn you around.

Getting up and down would have to take almost 2 seconds, leaving you vulnerable while changing stances, and unable to fire.

Again, I would only want to see it on infiltrators.

[Haro]

I find it rather funny how insubstantial most of the arguments for BOTH sides are. It's either "yes it should be" or "no it shouldn't" with little reasoning as to why. TRY HARDER PEOPLE!

Honestly, while I don't feel the "need" for prone in this game (haven't really felt the need for it since America's Army or Joint Operations) I don't see how it would detriment to gameplay all that much. I don't think it would be that one point that tips the game to static, camping, and given most of the interior environments I have seen in alpha footage so far, I'm not particularly worried about camping with prone, or in general. None of the horrid bottlenecks of old base interiors, or the convenient boxes and corners you could sit in with little concern, the open environments seem to encourage a wide open game style, and I've seen few places where you could have the control over your surroundings to truly, effectively camp, or at least not any that I couldn't see a max or a few grenades messing up properly. On top of that, the light assault jet packs makes me think that anyone who tries to camp will be unpleasantly surprised.

As for reason's why we need prone, I can't think of too many. Plenty of games have been successful without using it. On the other hand, I think that with sniping and possibly light machine guns, prone could be an interesting mechanic. It certainly wouldn't be for every class, but I think partial implementation could work.

There are some points I've seen that make sense: concerns with infiltrators is justifiable, though given the limited charge of cloak, it may be overblown. If I were a dev, I'd throw it into beta for testing if I had the chance, and if it doesn't work, just take it out. I don't think it's a good line of thinking to say "PS1 didn't need it, 2 shouldn't either" because if we kept using that logic, a lot of current features in the game would have to be taken out, right?

[NewSith]

I find it rather funny how insubstantial most of the arguments for BOTH sides are. It's either "yes it should be" or "no it shouldn't" with little reasoning as to why. TRY HARDER PEOPLE!

Honestly, while I don't feel the "need" for prone in this game (haven't really felt the need for it since America's Army or Joint Operations) I don't see how it would detriment to gameplay all that much. I don't think it would be that one point that tips the game to static, camping, and given most of the interior environments I have seen in alpha footage so far, I'm not particularly worried about camping with prone, or in general. None of the horrid bottlenecks of old base interiors, or the convenient boxes and corners you could sit in with little concern, the open environments seem to encourage a wide open game style, and I've seen few places where you could have the control over your surroundings to truly, effectively camp, or at least not any that I couldn't see a max or a few grenades messing up properly. On top of that, the light assault jet packs makes me think that anyone who tries to camp will be unpleasantly surprised.

As for reason's why we need prone, I can't think of too many. Plenty of games have been successful without using it. On the other hand, I think that with sniping and possibly light machine guns, prone could be an interesting mechanic. It certainly wouldn't be for every class, but I think partial implementation could work.

There are some points I've seen that make sense: concerns with infiltrators is justifiable, though given the limited charge of cloak, it may be overblown. If I were a dev, I'd throw it into beta for testing if I had the chance, and if it doesn't work, just take it out. I don't think it's a good line of thinking to say "PS1 didn't need it, 2 shouldn't either" because if we kept using that logic, a lot of current features in the game would have to be taken out, right?

I can bring in some argumentation, but I just don't want to argue about it much, so I think most of the people here do. There are lots of good games that do nice without proning and some of them have it in, while they can do fine without it.

[Blackwolf]

I find it comical how many of you old vets, who in other threads have been vehemently defending a hardline punishing PS experience where realism trumps all are not open to this.

Lets see how effective you are laying down and getting up in bulky armor.

If prone were put into the game, it would probably have to be limited to LA and infiltrators. LA would likely never use it, since their best defense is to get air born, not lay on the ground. Infiltrators would likely only use it for sniping, and they have a cloaking device so... why bother?

Modern military games like CoD include it because their body armor is very very light and flimsy in comparison to Bomb Squad style armor of HA and Riot Gear armor of LA.

In the field it's just not practical.

Realism still wins.

[berzerkerking]

I think I speak for all of us when I say, "No.":mad: NO no you don't I believe that prone will greatly enhance the gameplay. scared of campers:rofl: In war campers survive:the rolleyes:
Sniper will need the skill, and guerilla warfare types like me will use the to hide in brush, and knife my opponents. Just like crouch it is a very useful skill.
RIP-Mr common sense:evil:

[LegioX]

you people complaining about prone must suck at FPS. In all my long years of gaming, i have never had an issue with prone players in games that had that option.

Truthfully prone players are the easiest targets to kill. They get such bad tunnel vision when either sniping/shooting in the prone position, that they fail to realize to get up and move when being shot at. End result. Stationary targets much much easier to kill.

[JPalmer]

you people complaining about prone must suck at FPS. In all my long years of gaming, i have never had an issue with prone players in games that had that option.

Truthfully prone players are the easiest targets to kill. They get such bad tunnel vision when either sniping/shooting in the prone position, that they fail to realize to get up and move when being shot at. End result. Stationary targets much much easier to kill.


Believing that a certain gameplay feature does not work in a game does not mean you are bad at said game.

[LegioX]

Then what is the problem with not having prone put in? BFBC2 prime example. Cannot hide sufficiently behind cover b/c you cannot lie down. So all you can do is crouch and have your head possibly sticking out for someone to HS you.

Tell me. How does it not work in a certain game? Everybody has the same 2 arguments regardless of game on why they do not want prone.

1. Dolphin diving
2. Camping.

Devs can solve option 1 by putting in cool down timer or some type of fatigue to keep u from getting up and down really quickly.

We as players can solve option 2 by teamwork. Simple as that.

[GreatMazinkaise]

Enter option 3:

Prone is bad because you're laying on your face looking like an ass instead of fighting upright and moving like everyone else.

[Zulthus]

Then what is the problem with not having prone put in? BFBC2 prime example. Cannot hide sufficiently behind cover b/c you cannot lie down. So all you can do is crouch and have your head possibly sticking out for someone to HS you.

Tell me. How does it not work in a certain game? Everybody has the same 2 arguments regardless of game on why they do not want prone.

1. Dolphin diving
2. Camping.

Devs can solve option 1 by putting in cool down timer or some type of fatigue to keep u from getting up and down really quickly.

We as players can solve option 2 by teamwork. Simple as that.

PS2's terrain and cover was designed with crouch only gameplay in mind. This will not be a problem. Crouch now fills the role prone did.

Notice, though, how in BFBC2 camping was not nearly as much a problem as it was in BF3, and its combat was much more fun because people were actually running around instead of sitting in one spot.

[JPalmer]

Then what is the problem with not having prone put in? BFBC2 prime example. Cannot hide sufficiently behind cover b/c you cannot lie down. So all you can do is crouch and have your head possibly sticking out for someone to HS you.

Tell me. How does it not work in a certain game? Everybody has the same 2 arguments regardless of game on why they do not want prone.

1. Dolphin diving
2. Camping.

Devs can solve option 1 by putting in cool down timer or some type of fatigue to keep u from getting up and down really quickly.

We as players can solve option 2 by teamwork. Simple as that.

Pace and style.

Some games work great without it(Unreal, Planetside) some work great with it(ARMA). Some games are shit with it.

[Blackwolf]

Then what is the problem with not having prone put in? BFBC2 prime example. Cannot hide sufficiently behind cover b/c you cannot lie down. So all you can do is crouch and have your head possibly sticking out for someone to HS you.

Tell me. How does it not work in a certain game? Everybody has the same 2 arguments regardless of game on why they do not want prone.

1. Dolphin diving
2. Camping.

Devs can solve option 1 by putting in cool down timer or some type of fatigue to keep u from getting up and down really quickly.

We as players can solve option 2 by teamwork. Simple as that.

You're a coward if you just want prone to hide.

Don't see the camper argument working that well either honestly, it's more of an excuse. I just think the prone position would be all but useless and unrealistic in Planetside.

As I said before, LA wouldn't use it because their best defense is to go airborne and infiltrators wouldn't use it because they can freaking turn invisible. HA most likely couldn't use it because of their bulky as hell armor. But what am I saying? It's a game so we should dispense with realism. Ok so now you have HA trying to fire chain guns and other close quarters weapons while laying flat on their stomaches in a base.

Those of us who have played PS1 know that to be immobile is to die. A lot. Poor TR MAXes...

The OP said that PS needs prone. Most of us agree that PS does not need it.

[LegioX]

You're a coward if you just want prone to hide.

Don't see the camper argument working that well either honestly, it's more of an excuse. I just think the prone position would be all but useless and unrealistic in Planetside.

As I said before, LA wouldn't use it because their best defense is to go airborne and infiltrators wouldn't use it because they can freaking turn invisible. HA most likely couldn't use it because of their bulky as hell armor. But what am I saying? It's a game so we should dispense with realism. Ok so now you have HA trying to fire chain guns and other close quarters weapons while laying flat on their stomaches in a base.

Those of us who have played PS1 know that to be immobile is to die. A lot. Poor TR MAXes...

The OP said that PS needs prone. Most of us agree that PS does not need it.

I hardly play inf...mainly air. I'm just advocating for another option to use.

[Blackwolf]

I hardly play inf...mainly air. I'm just advocating for another option to use.

It's an option that isn't needed though. And most of us don't really want it, especially when you consider animations and DEV work required to individualize every soldier with their own weapon while prone (hip fired ones like HA's heavy anti infantry weapons, mini chain gun and jackhammer in particular, would pose serious graphical issues).

It's also just a pain in the ass to get prone and stand up and, again, it would all be useless because people would quickly realize that it's a death trap.

[LegioX]

Fair enough.

[Envenom]

Enter option 3:

Prone is bad because you're laying on your face looking like an ass instead of fighting upright and moving like everyone else.

What do you care how I choose to play my game? Worry about yourself.

[SKYeXile]

hahaha soo melodramatic. "If this game isn't MIND BLOWING I'm walking. That's it guys. I'm out!"

You must be crossing your fingers your gaming career doesn't abrupty end in a few months. :p

Yes, well some of have been gaming for more than a year and are getting alittle tired with the state of PvP MMO's, you might be about to pop your pvp MMO cherry, me however iv played practically everyone in existence. most arnt even worth speaking about.

[Envenom]

PS2's terrain and cover was designed with crouch only gameplay in mind. This will not be a problem. Crouch now fills the role prone did.

Notice, though, how in BFBC2 camping was not nearly as much a problem as it was in BF3, and its combat was much more fun because people were actually running around instead of sitting in one spot.

My absolute biggest gripe with BC2 was the lack of prone. It is a staple of the BF series. BFBC2 was a mere silly distraction to fill the hole between BF2 and BF3.

[Envenom]

The OP said that PS needs prone. Most of us agree that PS does not need it.

Incorrect. I would argue that it's about a 50/50 split. Most, at the very least just don't really care.

If you don't like it don't use it. If prone players are apparently so easy to kill what do you care?

[Envenom]

double post ooopsie

[Zulthus]

My absolute biggest gripe with BC2 was the lack of prone. It is a staple of the BF series. BFBC2 was a mere silly distraction to fill the hole between BF2 and BF3.

That's your opinion. Many, many hardcore BF fans loved the game and I did too. I've played every BF since 1942 and I think that BC2 was more fun than BF3. BF2142 was the absolute best, however. It took everything great about BF2 and made it prettier with more toys to play with.

[Envenom]

That's your opinion. Many, many hardcore BF fans loved the game and I did too. I've played every BF since 1942 and I think that BC2 was more fun than BF3. BF2142 was the absolute best, however. It took everything great about BF2 and made it prettier with more toys to play with.

BF2142 had prone.
http://legacy-cdn.smosh.com/smosh-pit/032011/trolling-irl-1.jpg

[Graywolves]

I just want to see the numbers on this.

I honestly couldn't think of anything other than yes or no when it came to prone.

[Zulthus]

BF2142 had prone.


Yes, I'm aware of that. I was referring to which BF game I felt was the most enjoyable, not which games have prone or not.

[Envenom]

It begins.

Though I would add another option stating - 'indifferent'

[Graywolves]

It begins.

Though I would add another option stating - 'indifferent'

Where were you 5 seconds ago when I was writing poll options!!

I suspect the indifferent will vote Other.

[Envenom]

You secretly loved it.

[Envenom]

Where were you 5 seconds ago when I was writing poll options!!

I suspect the indifferent will vote Other.

Can you edit a poll? lol.

[Shott]

For the love of God if this forum is going to have a million polls every day, please don't have "other" or "indifferent."

If you're indifferent, don't vote. If the poll question is "This" or "That," there is no other. It only skews numbers.

[SpcFarlen]

Im indifferent. So yes make that an option.

Ive played many games that never used prone, played many that did. I never thought in either that something was missing. You just go used to finding cover differently.


PS: By not voting you are letting someone vote for you. I dont trust these people, sorry.

[Zulthus]

You secretly loved it.

Secretly? Why would I? I absolutely loved everything about the game. The wealth of tools, the variety in vehicles and environments, the functional minimap, Titan mode... it was 10x as good as BF3.

Campers were quite the damn problem with their underslung rockets though.

[Stardouser]

I would rather see a poll on whether people recognize that wanting prone removed is a way of controlling the ways that others play just because you don't want them playing that way.

[Envenom]

For the love of God if this forum is going to have a million polls every day, please don't have "other" or "indifferent."

If you're indifferent, don't vote. If the poll question is "This" or "That," there is no other. It only skews numbers.

Clam it. Lots of people don't give a shit if it's in or not in, so that's a valid option.

[proxy]

I chose "other" and here is why:

In BF2, "dolphin hopping" - lame. Sort of a meta game, but unintentional.

In BF3, better. You could slide, slower to get up, interfered with shooting. But you could still stick half your body into a wall or a nook.

I think if this was a game with full collision, where I need appropriate spacing for my entire body to be placed, appropriate equipment that can be fired from prone, armor that works while prone, then yes sure, lets try it.

But as it looks now, it doesn't seem to fit the flavor of the game put forth already.

[Envenom]

Secretly? Why would I? I absolutely loved everything about the game. The wealth of tools, the variety in vehicles and environments, the functional minimap, Titan mode... it was 10x as good as BF3.

Campers were quite the damn problem with their underslung rockets though.

I agree with that. I had a good time with BF2143, but I still think BF2 was the kingpin of the series. BF3 was a bit watered down tactically.

Back on topic... prone poll. This will be interesting.. or probably not. This forum is comprised mostly of old PS1 vets so the results are pretty skewed. Who knows

[Shott]

Clam it. Lots of people don't give a shit if it's in or not in, so that's a valid option.

You're polite.

[Stardouser]

I chose "other" and here is why:

In BF2, "dolphin hopping" - lame. Sort of a meta game, but unintentional.

In BF3, better. You could slide, slower to get up, interfered with shooting. But you could still stick half your body into a wall or a nook.

I think if this was a game with full collision, where I need appropriate spacing for my entire body to be placed, appropriate equipment that can be fired from prone, armor that works while prone, then yes sure, lets try it.

But as it looks now, it doesn't seem to fit the flavor of the game put forth already.

Prone does not automatically mean dolphin diving. It also doesn't have to mean half your body in the wall.

But BF3's prone is too slow to get up. It's not necessary to have BF3's restrictive prone to stop dolphin diving, MW3's prone is better.

[Envenom]

You're polite.

Please clam it. ;)

[Fara]

Dev's origonally thought in PS1 that prone would slow the pace of gameplay ergo we never had it. With hindsight however it was posted that they wished it was included in the origonal development, since post production would have been too costly or something close to that effect it was never added.


Personally I don't see the harm in prone. Skeptical at first in BF3 but aside from the hiding in corners (with your feet in a wall) its never been an issue for me