How much of disadvantage should a Free Player be compared to a Paying Player?

[Dreamcast]

I think is gonna be the issue with F2P model....How long should it take a player who doesn't buy boost or anything to unlock something.



What I mean by this is that it shouldn't take too long to unlock something or else people will feel the need to buy boosters which will feel like is pay 2 play at least to me...and it will give certain players a feel of not getting rewarded ....You gotta remember a lot of people are used to get rewarded non stop.

But also, the unlocking part shouldn't feel too fast or else everybody is gonna unlock every fast and that might lose the interest of some people since they arn't playing to unlock stuff anymore....and it will effect the sells of boosters.



So what will be the happy medium?


I say that unlocking weapons/vehicles etc should take like 3-4 hours of Gameplay......Boosters should half that time.

For Maximizing certs...Which I remember were like 10 boxes to get full accuracy for example.....I feel that it should take 6-7 hours of Gameplay time...Also the later levels of the certs will be the ones that take the longest IMO......boosters should half that time.


Of course skill might play to the equation so good players will unlock faster stuff but I think the average player should take around this time to unlock stuff.



So what do you guys think?.....How long should it take Average Players to unlock stuff?....How much should boosters help?



BTW This game is inspired by League of Legends....In League of Legends you never feel disadvantage but unlocking certain characters takes a while...It depends but I say could be like 10 hours + to unlock a new charector by getting IP...might be the same for this game...LoL feels fair so maybe it will be fair here too.

[Stew]

to think those kind of thing Booster must be available to the people who actually dont play to much by thats i mean if someones only play once a weak in the week end and want to be at the level of his friend he can buy a booster like 50 % more xp etc.. for 48 hours once a weak !

But if a player have around 56 hours per weak of play time he is not allowed to buy booster for Xp something like this !


An in game systhem like thats could please those who dont play thats much to get a decent level but also restrict those who want to abuse Time + infinite XP boost !

But iam not sure if they even planned something like this Money talk like we said :S sadly

but in my opinion this must be done to make the game fair for everyones to not loose a serious amount of the player base !

[Winfernal]

You shouldn't have advantages, gameplay wise. See. It shouldn't be about the higher rank/more certs you have, the more powerful you get. You should only be able to modify and unlock weapons/certs etc. in a way where there are "tradeoffs", instead of "power-ups". And i believe this is the plan.

And this means. If someone ranks up faster than you because of paying, so what? You are a better player, you should beat him anyways. There shouldn't be ANY pay to win factors in this game.

Pay to win factors destroys games/communities eventually.

[Dreamcast]

I screwed up my poll didnt enable multiple options my bad

[Dreamcast]

You shouldn't have advantages, gameplay wise. See. It shouldn't be about the higher rank/more certs you have, the more powerful you get. You should only be able to modify and unlock weapons/certs etc. in a way where there are "tradeoffs", instead of "power-ups". And i believe this is the plan.

And this means. If someone ranks up faster than you because of paying, so what? You are a better player, you should beat him anyways. There shouldn't be ANY pay to win factors in this game.

Pay to win factors destroys games/communities eventually.

You won't but it will suck if it will take you 24 hours to unlock a weapon....If a person feels that they need to play way too much to unlock stuff, it will feel Pay 2 Play....Even though the certain weapon/Vehicle isn't over powered.

I have no problem with boosters or somebody spending $500 to unlock everything....Like I said the point is how long will it take me to unlock stuff since I don't want to feel like is a job to unlock stuff.

You gotta understand that todays games reward people a lot so if people don't unlock things fast....They will lose interest.

to think those kind of thing Booster must be available to the people who actually dont play to much by thats i mean if someones only play once a weak in the week end and want to be at the level of his friend he can buy a booster like 50 % more xp etc.. for 48 hours once a weak !

But if a player have around 56 hours per weak of play time he is not allowed to buy booster for Xp something like this !


An in game systhem like thats could please those who dont play thats much to get a decent level but also restrict those who want to abuse Time + infinite XP boost !

But iam not sure if they even planned something like this Money talk like we said :S sadly

but in my opinion this must be done to make the game fair for everyones to not loose a serious amount of the player base !

I see what you are saying...Doubt they will do that since money speaks like you said...I personally don't have a problem if somebody spents money to unlock everything but I do have a problem if it takes my like forever to unlock something....where it almost feels like a Job or I need to Pay 2 play

[Winfernal]

You gotta understand that todays games reward people a lot so if people don't unlock things fast....They will lose interest.




But todays average gamer haven't seen the glory of MMOFPS yet ;)

They haven't seen MASSIVE battles, HUGE continents and a MMO like shooter yet. They havent been in a persistent shooter, where you are a part of a huge war, an army. This is something new, not just another generic shooter... :) So, maybe those kinds of gamers will create a new mindset? Who knows.

[SKYeXile]

Freeplay user says what?

http://art.penny-arcade.com/photos/217509588_ZSzik-L-2.jpg

[Dreamcast]

But todays average gamer haven't seen the glory of MMOFPS yet ;)

They haven't seen MASSIVE battles, HUGE continents and a MMO like shooter yet. They havent been in a persistent shooter, where you are a part of a huge war, an army. This is something new, not just another generic shooter... :) So, maybe those kinds of gamers will create a new mindset? Who knows.

I agree but it will suck if it took you 30 hours to unlock a gun......That will suck....Is not fun getting excluded of getting something just because you are not willing to spend money



Of course you shouldn't unlock everything too fast because some people need a reason to be playing.

[Dagron]

I think if they add boosters, they should be cheap and wield low benefits. That way it would encourage more people to buy them (cheap), while not making people who can't spend money feel like they're gonna take forever to get fun stuff compared to those buying them (low benefits).

Also, i think getting a cert to max lvl should take more than a day, otherwise those guys who play all day will have everything by the end of week one... and getting a cert wouldn't be so fulfilling either.
I mean, you'd get your fun new toy but you wouldn't feel like you accomplished much.

[Vancha]

A couple of things to keep in mind...

1: Not all things will unlock in the same amount of time. Saying it should take "x" hours to unlock a cert is nonsense, because it might take an hour to unlock one weapon and a hundred hours to unlock another.

2: An MMOFPS shouldn't be quite as reliant on skinner box mechanics. It probably shouldn't be as infrequent a reward as EVE, or maybe even Tribes, but not having that regular little package of unlocked dopamine shouldn't stop people playing, unless the gameplay itself is sub-par.

[Fanglord]

I think in a game like this it should be exponential XP between cert points, with the higher certs giving more reward. That way those that invest the longest in a certain role will get the best benefit, and hopefully discourage OP'd multi-rolers.

[SGTalon]

I don't think we are going to have to worry about this.

Matt Higby has said about 100 times that he wants the game to be fun for EVERYONE!

They are not going to make you play for days and not feel like you accomplished anything. With as many certifications as there are, i would say that it is going to take the average player at least a couple, 3-4 months to unlock everything. Personally i wish it would be longer that that even.

I think to acquire every cert in the game should take at least 6 months to a year. We want this game to be fun for a long time. I hate games that run out of accomplishments too early.

[HEISTT]

The base game should be (and seems to be) very fun without having earned any cert points at all. I don't think the devs have to worry about people demanding instant-gratification who would leave if progression was too slow. But then again if people progress quickly, game-time wise, what would the point be of boosters?

The progression rate of earning certs is debatable. If you would ask me I would say 2-4 hours to be able to spec into a your first new tree? Of course I don't have any idea how many cert trees there are and what the maximum amount of cert points will be on release. I also don't know if cert points are awarded on a linear basis or if the cert points you earn for each action becomes progressively lower.

I'm almost certain that the subject presented by the OP is pretty much nailed down by the devs, but I could be completely wrong.

[Masahiko]

In relative power it should not exceed the 10% we keep hearing thrown around from a player that has unlocked everything.

In terms of progression it would seem mosts boots from other games give between 50% to 100% more of the currency.

[The Kush]

I like the idea of the topic but without playing the game it is nearly impossible to decide something like this. There are so many factors to be included to make an accurate decision you must have played the game.

[Timealude]

my thing is if they make it so you unlock alot of things right off the bat, then there wont be alot of incentive to continue playing, looking at it from an MMO perspective. you have to have some sort of balance between unlocking at a decent speed and not giving everything handed to you in the first month of the game...otherwise planetside 2 would be dead in the water after a month of playing it.

[Zekeen]

Max certs are going to take a long long long long LOOOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNNGGGGGGGGG time to reach. Higby has stated that even after playing a year, you might not reach max cert in a field. That was a while back, but it was stated, system might have changed.

Rather than basing free players on max certed players in terms of certs, why not look at combat efficiency?

it's 20%

100% vs 120%

That's what it is, what it should and what it will probably stay. A very low, very good number, but a minor difference none the less to keep the game active and fresh when you put the time into it.

So, if you pay and get a little boost to get more certs faster, who cares. 110% vs 120% if you have a free vs paying player with same time and effort spent. Boosters aren't even going to be bought as much as you think. More players will be going after the skins.

Also, you get certs from being offline too, so that "56 hours to max cert" comment is completely bogus and stupid. That'd be LITERALLY, 24 hours. That's one day. Yeah, you won't reach max certs by then.

All weapons and vehicles are unlocked from the get go. You cert up improvements and variety sidegrades. IE - drop pods for a Galaxy rather than a barrier drop. Different secondary weapon for you tank. Ect.

The reason for certs is so you can specialize in an area before certing in other areas. You can get better with the assault rifle, and another player certs in infiltrator. He's betting at cloaking, you're better at killing. You can both cert in the opposing field and you're both on level ground in both areas.

The current certing system is VERY VERY balanced. And basing it all on a mere 24 hours is completely unplaced. You can gain certs offline, more from being in active combat, and even more with a booster, which could boost either online or offline experience, we don't know yet. But either way, xp boosters won't be a gigantic leap in difference.

[kasiraghi]

Winfernal has the important point here, it CAN'T be pay-to-win.

HiRez fucked up (with Tribes: Ascend) imho by making it so that if you wanted to buy certain (fairly important) weapons you needed so much XP that either you had to play for a LONG time (to get ONE, and if you wanted to get the same type of weap for another armour it really became a grind), and by that I mean FAR TOO LONG, or you HAD to buy it.

Now, the problem here is that you NEED to buy stuff if you only play very casually, so the weapons/variants/attachments you're buying should (as someone else said) be reliant on trade-offs rather than absolute power (i.e. making something much better than something else).

EDIT: TL;DR - while I think everyone should pay something for the game to support the devs, there should be no disadvantage to non-paying players.

[SpcFarlen]

Considering i really only plan on playing two classes, medic and heavy assault (still cant decide what faction...), I dont really think boosters will really be needed for me. It rather get the skins i want, the weapon that looks cool or maybe even stick with default since usually they are the best all around weapon (meaning decent at everything, not excelling or bad at any).

Its like that way with Tribes Ascend. I bought a few things i wanted and just played to upgrade them. Didnt bother with XP boosters.

[Winfernal]

Considering i really only plan on playing two classes, medic and heavy assault (still cant decide what faction...), I dont really think boosters will really be needed for me. It rather get the skins i want, the weapon that looks cool or maybe even stick with default since usually they are the best all around weapon (meaning decent at everything, not excelling or bad at any).

Its like that way with Tribes Ascend. I bought a few things i wanted and just played to upgrade them. Didnt bother with XP boosters.

I don't get it when people are buying "XP boosters"/"Experience boosters". Atleast not in a fresh game on their first character!

You gain XP, or experience points by doing things in the game, a.k.a experiencing the game! How can you "boost" that experience?!

:confused::confused: :D

[MrBloodworth]

XP boosters are good if you have limited time, or want to catch up with friends.

[Lamira]

To be honest, aslong as they stick to convenience items that's all that really matters; unlocking things faster just makes it more convenient to unlock the particular loadout you wan't, it doesn't make you more powerful.

If someones paying for you to play a game (which is what the paying side of the community will be doing for the f2p site of it) there shouldn't be any kind of uproar unless they're getting an actual tangible advantage in combat; the guns won't be better, the tank's won't be better, they'l just unlock a wider variety faster.

[Santiak]

I'd say as long as there is no difference in the performance the same player could achieve, whether they spend cash or not, how long it takes is irrelevant imo, from a balancing point of view.
Say you are a player that doesn't want to spend any cash, but you mainly want to faff about in MAX armour, while a friend of yours wants to be a jack-of-all-trades, and doesn't mind spending cash on the game. While the friend might arguably get everything he wants faster, the first player - knowing what he wants, and wants to specialize - will get to where he wants to be before the friend.

Now, if spending cash meant your friend would be able to get BFScattercannon, that fires faster, hits harder, and can fire rail-slugs as a 4th mode, but you can't - unless you fork out the money, I'll begin having a problem with the system.

[Bobby Shaftoe]

LoL feels fair so maybe it will be fair here too.

LoL is 5v5 with matchmaking based on levels and hidden ratings. You won't as a new player face a level 30 with full runes and masteries unless you do specific actions ie custom game or premades with your own level 30's.

Anyone being a new player will face a fully upgraded trooper in PS2 regardless of what they do.

It's going to be fun seeing them try and balance not only the different Empire weapons but then the specific upgrades each of those weapons get but of course it'll be fine... since they're not at a flexibility disadvantage like a BR1 vs BR40 was, just outright bested in each class by an older player. :groovy:

[Dairian]

You have not thought this poll though...... Maxamize Certs in 24 hours is the highest option? It should take 6 months to a year to complete all the trees if not longer. If everything was unlocked in 24 hours then I'll have it done in the first day I play. Sleep? yeah right! Progression is what keeps people playing.

I am sure that boosters will not give a 50% increase. More around 10-20% so you feel like you are gaining something worth while, but you don't just rush through all the game play in half the time.

Higby said in one of the videos that just came out recently that you will gain a cert about every 10 minutes and some upgrades will take just a few certs to hundreds of certs as you progress up the tree. I am sure they will tweak everything in beta.

[Dreamcast]

You have not thought this poll though...... Maxamize Certs in 24 hours is the highest option? It should take 6 months to a year to complete all the trees if not longer. If everything was unlocked in 24 hours then I'll have it done in the first day I play. Sleep? yeah right! Progression is what keeps people playing.

I am sure that boosters will not give a 50% increase. More around 10-20% so you feel like you are gaining something worth while, but you don't just rush through all the game play in half the time.

Higby said in one of the videos that just came out recently that you will gain a cert about every 10 minutes and some upgrades will take just a few certs to hundreds of certs as you progress up the tree. I am sure they will tweak everything in beta.


I was talking about a Cert tree....For example only accuracy in 1 weapon.


Not all cert trees but maybe you are right, it was too little.

[Antivide]

Certs should not take so obscenely long to attain (As in, 100 hours or some shit, offenders being Tribes Ascend and multiple Korean MMOs) that you're better off buying stuff.

Money = Time

If you have lots of REASONABLE time you should be on equal cert level with someone who doesn't have a reasonable amount of time but does have spare cash to spend.

It's a fine line, and SOE will have a disaster on their hands if they don't balance this correctly.

[Raka Maru]

Don't think I will be buying any xp boosters. All my station cash will be going to skins and customizations.

If the xp gain is anything like EVE, I'll probably do jack of all trades with the lower certs until they start costing a whole lot of points. Then specialization with what I want.

It's so much easier to level all the first level stuff and have those options already available.