Disappearance of Backpack and Trunk Storages

[LtStaley]

From what I've seen so far, (and correct me if I'm wrong) the backpack and trunk storages will not be making a return in Planetside 2. I actually find this a bit unfortunate as looting an adversary's pack for potential faction-specific weaponry or extra ammunition came in very handy at times. Given the vast distances to cover, it would benefit players to have the ability to scavenge resources when isolated from bases/towers.

Anyone else have thoughts on this?

[MrBloodworth]

Apparently, it was to much for the target audience. I mourn the loss of depth.

[kaffis]

You mean new thoughts, as opposed to all the thoughts we had a year ago when we found this out?

It's pretty simple. There's no weapon looting or vehicle hacking, because it gets screwy with unlocks, customization, and empire specific stuff. It also runs counter to the pace of the game they want to establish based on their analysis of the modern FPS market.

[QuantumMechanic]

Backpacks and vehicle trunks in PS1 were part of the (very flexible) inventory system.

PS2's inventory system is quite different. You pick the class you want to spawn as, and based on that you pick the gear you are allowed to have.

There was talk of being able to loot enemies way back when... but I haven't seen any evidence that it's in-game currently. The kind of issues that Higby points to in these situations is how do you handle looting a weapon that has a bunch of customizations on it that you aren't certed for?

[MrBloodworth]

There was talk of being able to loot enemies way back when... but I haven't seen any evidence that it's in-game currently. The kind of issues that Higby points to in these situations is how do you handle looting a weapon that has a bunch of customizations on it that you aren't certed for?

You give them the base weapon and any identical mods, and they go customize it visually. If they survive that long.

This is really just another area where because of the fast track, they cut it. Also, apparently, it was to much for the target audience to manage innovatory.

[Kilmoran]

I do wonder about ammo. I understand no faction gear swapping... but what about just getting ammo?

[QuantumMechanic]

Well, if they include vehicle hacking - which is sounds like they want to to - then they are going to have to solve this type of problem.

So if they can add hacking then they can add looting. One can hope :)

[meiam]

Hum how about just giving the player the weapon, with all cert even the one not cert into, that they looted but take it away on death? problem solve?

[SpcFarlen]

Getting ammo from bodies, i agree. Looting bodies for their weapons i dont. It is similar to us not being able to hack into an enemy vehicle. Lets say technology has evolved and there is a way to detect the user. Law enforcement are actually making handguns, still in development, that will only work if that person is carrying a certain chip on them. So similar principle.

[DOUBLEXBAUGH]

I do wonder about ammo. I understand no faction gear swapping... but what about just getting ammo?

Light Assault class has an ammo box drop

[Toppopia]

This could solve the problem.
http://www.planetside-universe.com/showthread.php?t=41911

[Crazyduckling]

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080202231409/uncyclopedia/images/1/11/Beating-a-dead-horse.gif

[IronMole]

Since PS2 has a BF3 class system, then we should be able to "switch" gear with other dead players...

[Rbstr]

Meh, I don't care about the inventory. Having classes and weapon restrictions is orders of magnitude better for balance.

I do think you should be able to pick up a fallen person's class.
The biggest problem there is that class also determines armor type and weapon availability. Do you allow a switch into VS heavy armor from an NC light assault, or do you let the light assault simply carry the HA weapon around? Do you take his jump jets away?

[Raymac]

I've said it before. The clunky tetris mini-game inventory system was one of my least favorite things about Planetside. I'm overjoyed to see it done way with.

[Kilmoran]

Light Assault class has an ammo box drop

.... -.- what doesn't the light assault class have?

[Shott]

.... -.- what doesn't the light assault class have?

A lot of armor? Heavy weapons? Cloaking abilites? MAX armor? The ability to heal? The ability to repair?

[kaffis]

A lot of armor? Heavy weapons? Cloaking abilites? MAX armor? The ability to heal? The ability to repair?
:rofl:

But in all seriousness, aside from that, they've got everything!!one!1!eleven!!!

[Xyntech]

:rofl:

But in all seriousness, aside from that, they've got everything!!one!1!eleven!!!

Aside from sniping, deployables, Anti Vehicle guns, reviving team mates... :D

What have the Romans ever done for us

[Papscal]

Apparently, it was to much for the target audience. I mourn the loss of depth.

Well put. To bad they are targeting an audience (aka selling out) instead of just going with what is and has been proven to be fun.

[Blackwolf]

Well put. To bad they are targeting an audience (aka selling out) instead of just going with what is and has been proven to be fun.

I wouldn't call the old methods a tried and true source of "fun". It was actually kind of annoying.

[Winfernal]

Well put. To bad they are targeting an audience (aka selling out) instead of just going with what is and has been proven to be fun.

I'd imagine them trying to maintain this NEW game with it's new engine with the old playerbase. That wouldn't work, to say the least. It's to underground.

But if you expected the engine and graphics from the original PS, you'd have all your fun in PS2 with the original playerbase. This is called branching out, or surviving. Rather than selling out...

I'd guess you PS vets wanted a sequel, right?

[Zulthus]

Whether or not the PS1 inventory system was fun or not is subjective... and I personally found it to be a great mechanic. Being able to customize your inventory to your liking was one of my favorite parts of PS1, not being locked into a class system.

I'll be honest here, I've never found the 'super soldiers' to be much of a problem. Nobody was invincible, sometimes HA/AV soldiers killed MAXes, most of the time it was the other way around. It always depended on who was the better player.

Being able to carry a Med app/BANK didn't mean anything either... even without them in PS2 your health and shields seem to recharge. Kind of a step back IMO. It takes more effort and inventory space to carry the tools to fix yourself up instead of having them recharge for you.

Really now, the only difference between the super soldiers of PS1 and loadouts in PS2 is not being able to carry a AI and AV weapon at the same time.

[Papscal]

I'd imagine them trying to maintain this NEW game with it's new engine with the old playerbase. That wouldn't work, to say the least. It's to underground.

But if you expected the engine and graphics from the original PS, you'd have all your fun in PS2 with the original playerbase. This is called branching out, or surviving. Rather than selling out...

I'd guess you PS vets wanted a sequel, right?

No we dont want a sequel son. What we do want is to keep the things that were fun and add new content that makes the Planetside experience even better than PS1. Branching out? Thats a fancy catch phrase for selling out. Its what investors insist upon when they get nervous about any risk at all. Look at World of Warcraft, dozens of literal clones. And all of them in the shitter. Underground is the very base for all success stories in this market. It worked in PS1 and PS2 will be no different if SOE is courageous enough to to not attempt to sell out.

Just the facts son, just the facts.

[DOUBLEXBAUGH]

Really now, the only difference between the super soldiers of PS1 and loadouts in PS2 is not being able to carry a AI and AV weapon at the same time.

Been saying this for a while. The HA class cant carry a MCG with the Striker, but with the faster TTKs, the Cycler it can take with it wont be that much worse unless the MCG can 1 shot this time around.

Also I can now fly my Skeet in Rexo this time, so the "super soldier" is actually better in PS2.

[Rbstr]

It worked in PS1 and PS2 will be no different if SOE is courageous enough to to not attempt to sell out.

Face the facts, PS1 wasn't an MMO success story.

[Timealude]

i keep hearing this talk of "selling out" but really video games are a business. If you were trying to get people to stop playing COD or BF or one of the many other shooters, what would you do first? (remember just because old mechanics worked back then doesnt mean they are viable now.) I think them taking out the inventory was a smart move simply because of the business they are trying to grow with this game. Im sure alot of the vets would love to have the inventory back, but heres the thing.....the vets arent the only ones wanting to play the game. There's alot of newbies that are here and adding stuff like this would alienate them with a clunky inventory system rather then having a customizable load out. Remember folks we want this game to be awesome and fun, but we also want to grow our planetside family and introduce people to a style of game play the have only heard of....hopefully they will have some of the fond memories we vets used to have. :cool:

[Shade Millith]

Basically, they've done away with the interesting inventory system, and gone with a boring BF3 system.

I will mourn the loss.

[Sabrak]

Apparently, it was to much for the target audience. I mourn the loss of depth.

Are you kidding me?

Did you see the number of certs and customization options (not talking about aesthetic ones) in the game?

I'm pretty sure PS2 has more depth than PS1 did, despite not having inventories.

[CutterJohn]

Basically, they've done away with the interesting inventory system, and gone with a boring BF3 system.

I will mourn the loss.


They've gone away from the tedious inventetris system, and gone to a modified BF2 system, except with several slots for equipment.

Only problem I have with the change is how much they're restricting weapons to certain classes. Actually, I'm not sure how much they will be restricted.. I may not have that much of a problem.

Basically, I'm fine with ditching the inventory jigsaw puzzle mess, but feel they should have kept the wide range of weapon selections. Balance could be achieved just fine with restrictions/buffs/nerfs to the weapon and/or class when used in certain combos.

[Kilmoran]

A lot of armor? Heavy weapons? Cloaking abilites? MAX armor? The ability to heal? The ability to repair?

Most classes don't have "a lot" of armor. One class gets heavy weapons. One class get's cloaking. One class gets max armor. One class can heal. One class can repair.

Light Assault can use smoke grenades (And i think another), Fly/hover/jump jet around. Use most weapons. Apparently resupply their allies with ammo for some reason too. I am probably forgetting something in all of that. So other than the /one or two/ things everyone else can do... what can't the Light Assault currently do?

[PsychoXR-20]

Hopefully this wont be considered a necro, since I was going to make a new thread about this anyways.

We've seen in a few "older" screenshots TR soldiers using NC weaponry, so looting enemy weapons was either in at one point, or there just felt like creating false information in those shots. Either way, I saw no looting of weapons in the E3 streams, so either no one bothered to do it, no one knew you could do it, or it wasn't implemented yet.

I personally want to see the ability to loot enemy weapons come back. As much as I liked the inventory system in PS1, and the ability to create the exact class you wanted to play, I have come to terms with the new system, and if removing the inventory means I can have access to a infiltrator, a soldier, an engineer a medic and a MAX all at the same time, while still being able to pull a Reaver and a Vanguard, it's a lose I am willing to accept.

There are some obvious issues with looting enemy (or friendly for that matter) weapons:

1. Which weapons should you be able to loot from someone? (everyone has at least a pistol and a rifle)
2. How do you deal with weapons your class can't use?
3. How do you deal with weapon variants?
4. How do you deal with customizations?

1 through 3 are pretty easy. For number 1, simply drop whatever weapon they currently have out. If I kill a light assault and he has a Cycler out, he drops the Cycler, if he has a Repeater, he drops the Repeater. Number 2 is likewise an easy fix. If I am playing an infiltrator and kill a heavy assault and he drops his Cycler ARV, simply don't show a prompt and don't allow me to pick it up. For number 3 you need to be able to pull your empires equivalent weapon from an equipment terminal to loot an enemies version. So no being able to loot a TR high caliber Cycler, if you don't have access to the NC high caliber Gauss (or whatever the devs deem should be the equivalent weapon)

Edit: if the use of camos and addons you dont have access to is something the devs are unwillingly to allow, the simply reset the weapon back to it's default texture, and remove all addons when the weapon is picked up.

4 is slightly more tricky. There's three types of weapon customizations. Camo, addons and certifications. Camo and addons are easy, for those I say "so what?", that could be one of the perks to picking weapons off the ground, you get to take advantage of addons you may not have access to. Certifications are a little different. From a lore standpoint they are more proficiency type customizations. Just because the TR soldier had a really fast reload doesn't mean I would too. If all players regardless of empire have the same weapon certifications available (meaning the VS don't have anything unique to them) then I would say just use the highest level of your version (and if you have 0 points, than the weapon essentially has no certifications on it). If there are unique empire certs, then I say simply strip the weapon of its certs when it's picked up (this could then offset the fact you may be using addons you can't normally pull from an equipment terminal).

Looting enemy weapons is a great way to not only get a drop on the enemy (most people aren't to used to facing their own weapons) but is also a way to spice things up every now and then? getting tired of your Gauss, well I would first say you should be dragged out back and shot a traitors death, but short of that start using more enemy weapons. It's surprising how much fun a little change like that can be.

[fishirboy]

what they need to do is not have any classes like cod and just be able to custom your build.

[PhoenixDog]

You give them the base weapon and any identical mods, and they go customize it visually. If they survive that long.

This is really just another area where because of the fast track, they cut it. Also, apparently, it was to much for the target audience to manage innovatory.

Pretty sure you can lose your "The world is falling" attitude. This isn't a huge deal. There's a lot to deal with behind the scenes. I would personally rather have a much more stable launch and everything they have announced working and in the game...Than be able to loot some dirty NC or TR pea-shooter. The TTK is also much shorter in PS2, along with easily about 10-15x more people on the continent. Standing there looting a corpse for a pretty little gun is more than enough time to get killed in this game.

[Zar]

ah nvm >.< read the post wrong ignore this >.<

[Zar]

what they need to do is not have any classes like cod and just be able to custom your build.
agreed the cod class system is ball's imo no offensive to the *modern fps* crowd but what you think, is well not important you have your modern fps >.<
it's called cod go play it XD planetside can and will be so much more then your 10 year old spam fast >.<.

[proxy]

agreed the cod class system is ball's imo no offensive to the *modern fps* crowd but what you think, is well not important you have your modern fps >.<
it's called cod go play it XD planetside can and will be so much more then your 10 year old spam fast >.<.

I know this will fall on deaf ears of ignorance, but class systems were used in games before PS, i.e., Team Fortress Classic and BF 1942... released in 1999 and 2002 respectively. I played/play these games and I am not 10 years old. Though I did play them 10 years ago and feel old.

Now, I know what you might say next "but PS isn't a class based shooter" but ffs by having weapons, items and vehicles only usable by certain "classes" of armors, it's basically a class system.

Of course, this will not stop everyone, so please continue with your hyperbole.

[RandomNPC]

You guys realize PS1 was a pretty spectacular failure as far as mmo's go, right? Very possibly one of the least successful that didn't just shut down outright.

Always amazes me to see PS1 vets raging about SOE "selling out" and "not taking risks"; maybe you don't remember, but they took those risks in PS1. If you liked those clunky mechanics they're changing (or removing), you're in the minority. It's not selling out to change mechanics that only a small minority of an audience enjoys, it's just good sense.

But I guess the vets will only ever be happy if PS2 dies the same slow death that PS1 has.

edit: Mind you I'm talking mostly about the inventory system, vehicle hacking I assume will be implemented before or during beta. Picking up weapons, I'm not so sure, but I can see using their weapons until you die or change class/equipment.

[Spiritbeast]

i dont want any weapon looting, and i dont want vehicle jacking....if it's not on my team it's getting blown the fook up ; P

[ChookWantan]

Since when did COD have classes? Last time I checked, you could equip any primary, and secondary, any three perks, and two gadgets/grenades. You could save these "classes", but you were never forced into a roll in COD (at least, not since MW).

Now, I'm not a COD fan, but I really get confused when people start blaming these other franchises for things that aren't even their doing. Planetside 2 is going to have A TON more people, and a lot more customization than its predecessor. These two things alone will alter the gameplay in untold ways, and I think we need to remember that when we hear announcements of new/removed features.

Let's wait for the beta before we start our doomsaying.

[Zar]

I know this will fall on deaf ears of ignorance, but class systems were used in games before PS, i.e., Team Fortress Classic and BF 1942... released in 1999 and 2002 respectively. I played/play these games and I am not 10 years old. Though I did play them 10 years ago and feel old.

Now, I know what you might say next "but PS isn't a class based shooter" but ffs by having weapons, items and vehicles only usable by certain "classes" of armors, it's basically a class system.

Of course, this will not stop everyone, so please continue with your hyperbole. didn't mean offense and i played 1942 and tf classic as well and i loved those game's. but the depth of this game can be more then the run of the mill shooter if it's not dumb down >.< and turned into every other shooter that's out atm >.<. I wanna play planetside 2 cause i hope it break's this model that has been running for the last 10 year's >.< that has turned most fps player's into bunny hopping dolphin diving grenade spamming scrubs. >.< i remember when fps game's were fought with bullet's >.< not unlocks and kill streak spam chopper nonsense XD. having said that the sheer scale of this game and map's fixes 90% of the issues even if they stick with this system campers will get killed by aircraft even with meta weapon's lone wolf's will get beaten into the ground so hard they will rage quit xD. team work or die as long as that doesn't get changed I'm pretty ok with anything they do >.<.

[Zulthus]

You guys realize PS1 was a pretty spectacular failure as far as mmo's go, right? Very possibly one of the least successful that didn't just shut down outright.

Always amazes me to see PS1 vets raging about SOE "selling out" and "not taking risks"; maybe you don't remember, but they took those risks in PS1. If you liked those clunky mechanics they're changing (or removing), you're in the minority. It's not selling out to change mechanics that only a small minority of an audience enjoys, it's just good sense.

But I guess the vets will only ever be happy if PS2 dies the same slow death that PS1 has.

edit: Mind you I'm talking mostly about the inventory system, vehicle hacking I assume will be implemented before or during beta. Picking up weapons, I'm not so sure, but I can see using their weapons until you die or change class/equipment.

If you knew at all what you were talking about, PS1 was a "failure" (which it really wasn't, there's a reason it's still around today) because in 2003 nobody had the hardware to run it. Nothing was wrong with its mechanics, in fact, it was much more in depth than pretty much every FPS out there. The scale, the empires, the teamwork, the variety, the persistence, the immersion, the details, the community. Maybe it wasn't graphically as pretty as other games, but damn, it didn't need that at all.

Many here have had more fun in and played Planetside more than any other game, because it was something different. Not the generic WWII 64 player match based simplistic FPS games of the time.

[Otleaz]

I wouldn't mind seeing an inventory system, but a nice alternative would be to make it so weapons that get picked up will self destruct if they detect it is an enemy faction.

That leaves certs for hacking weapons on the ground, and you end up with players who can incorporate that kind of stuff into their playstyle if they like. All without sending the masses into a confused fit!

[GreatMazinkaise]

If you knew at all what you were talking about, PS1 was a "failure" (which it really wasn't, there's a reason it's still around today) because in 2003 nobody had the hardware to run it. Nothing was wrong with its mechanics, in fact, it was much more in depth than pretty much every FPS out there. The scale, the empires, the teamwork, the variety, the persistence, the immersion, the details, the community. Maybe it wasn't graphically as pretty as other games, but damn, it didn't need that at all.

Many here have had more fun in and played Planetside more than any other game, because it was something different. Not the generic WWII 64 player match based simplistic FPS games of the time.

This, right here. Planetside didn't die because it was a bad game. Right out the door it had no advertising, an entry barrier in the form of a subscription, and terrible netcode. Couple that with SOE's early dev team swap and constant lack of support and it was guaranteed to die a slow death. That so many of us stuck around and want it back is a testament to how great Planetside was. Hell, back in 2006 we were already trying to clone it to get away from SOE control.

If Planetside had had decent netcode and an F2P model back then it might well have been the FPS counterpart to WoW. As is, SOE owes us a game worthy of the original.

[FuzzyandBlue]

I am not a PS1 vet, but as my interest in PS2 grows, I have gone and watched some streams of PS1. Every single person I watched was a one man army. Sure there were 30 or 40 people all from the same faction or outfit playing in the same area, but they weren't playing together.

I don't see how having a class system is "dumbing down" anything. Class systems have lots of benefits over a free form system. Limiting what an individual soldier can do makes him more reliant on his team to survive. This in turn breeds team play and more team oriented tactics.

A free form system (like the one that exists in the recent COD games) is harder to balance. It also allows for more cheap or annoying tactics. I'm all for a well balanced class system that promotes team play on its most fundamental level.

[Zulthus]

I am not a PS1 vet, but as my interest in PS2 grows, I have gone and watched some streams of PS1. Every single person I watched was a one man army. Sure there were 30 or 40 people all from the same faction or outfit playing in the same area, but they weren't playing together.

I don't see how having a class system is "dumbing down" anything. Class systems have lots of benefits over a free form system. Limiting what an individual soldier can do makes him more reliant on his team to survive. This in turn breeds team play and more team oriented tactics.

A free form system (like the one that exists in the recent COD games) is harder to balance. It also allows for more cheap or annoying tactics. I'm all for a well balanced class system that promotes team play on its most fundamental level.

We wouldn't need a class system in the first place if they made the cert system similar to BR20 in the early life of Planetside. Nobody was a one man army. BR20 meant you had to pick a role to perform and that was the role you were good at. Now it's essentially the same as BR40, you can still do everything you want and don't have a defined role, difference is the only thing stopping you is an equipment terminal. You'll still be able to unlock everything in the game eventually.


Regardless of that, I was just saying, I don't personally have anything against the current system, I liked freeform inventory. No matter what people have said, just because you were a one man army didn't necessarily make you effective. There will always be lone wolves and there will always be team players. Carrying a Lasher and a Deci didn't change the pace of the game, and healing yourself only happened after you won a battle, so there's no point in saying it was OP.



But to the others complaining about 'inventory tetris', you act as if the simple process of putting together a unique loadout was actually a hard and tedious thing to do and learn. Please, give me a break. It takes ten seconds to learn the entire system and maybe 30 to make your own customized loadout. Once you're done with making your favorites you don't have to touch it again. You'd have to have the attention span of a carrot to complain about something like that.

[Revanmug]

But to the others complaining about 'inventory tetris', you act as if the simple process of putting together a unique loadout was actually a hard and tedious thing to do and learn. Please, give me a break. It takes ten seconds to learn the entire system and maybe 30 to make your own customized loadout. Once you're done with making your favorites you don't have to touch it again. You'd have to have the attention span of a carrot to complain about something like that.

so, it was a fairly useless mechanic since it's a do it once and forget. Sounds like a fairly good idea to remove it and change things around don't you think.

[Zulthus]

so, it was a fairly useless mechanic since it's a do it once and forget. Sounds like a fairly good idea to remove it and change things around don't you think.

No, because 1. 'inventetris' allows for the most customization and options for your personal loadout and 2. when I said "you don't have to touch it again" I meant to select that favorite you just have to go up and hit 1-10 and you have that loadout again. You don't have to do the creation multiple times if you don't want to. Saves the trouble of a clunky loadout select respawn screen.

[BattsTR]

Screw classes. Every fps now is about classes. Part of the fun of PS1 was not having to pick a class. I enjoyed the system in PS1, it added an rpg element into an fps. People that will lone wolf will still do that with classes, and people that will team up would still do that without them. Fact is you should be able to do both, and have the loadout you prefer.

[CutterJohn]

Customization makes everything bland, because everything must be balanced for the worst case scenario/op combinations. I.e. Grenades can't be powerful because people could then load up 50 of the things.

Classes impose ridiculously arbitrary limitations. Why can't a LA carry a sniper rifle? Its ridiculous.

There is no perfect solution. Any system has issues.

[GreatMazinkaise]

The classes seem more or less fine to me (if unnecessary), and it's certainly easier to balance them against one another than the old way. I just can't stand people who know nothing blaming Planetside's failure on its mechanics, many of which were quite good. Scale and persistence were not its only defining features.

The dedicated support whores, R-Exo snipers, and infiltrator saboteurs definitely got the shaft with the class system as is though, there's no denying that.

[CutterJohn]

R-Exo snipers

Exactly the point. You can't snipe with a tanky character anymore, making you more vulnerable to counterfire with non sniper weapons.

Would you have been fine with MAX units and Vehicles having Bolt Drivers or the equivalent in PS1? If you say, no, that would not have been fine, then you understand exactly why it was done.

[GreatMazinkaise]

Exactly the point. You can't snipe with a tanky character anymore, making you more vulnerable to counterfire with non sniper weapons.

Would you have been fine with MAX units and Vehicles having Bolt Drivers or the equivalent in PS1? If you say, no, that would not have been fine, then you understand exactly why it was done.

Doesn't hurt my feelings (not a fan of snipers in general), but the infiltrator suit may actually prove to be better.

[Daffan]

I really liked the term earlier in the thread of "supersoldiers" and a good point was made, it's even footing there. I think it's stupid that a rexo type character can pilot but anywho....

The restriction of grenades I am reading (someone referenced smoke grenades) is down right retarded sounding...

Maybe the whole thing doesnt have to change drastically but i liked choosing how much ammo / med kits and other jazz was out there, and everyone else got the same options.......


We wouldn't need a class system in the first place if they made the cert system similar to BR20 in the early life of Planetside. Nobody was a one man army. BR20 meant you had to pick a role to perform and that was the role you were good at. Now it's essentially the same as BR40, you can still do everything you want and don't have a defined role, difference is the only thing stopping you is an equipment terminal. You'll still be able to unlock everything in the game eventually.




This is also true and a good point to add... I dont particulary care about the ranks or having all the certifications at once (which at the beginning made me frown), but yeah... Its fine if they can do everything and anything they like ( as it is proposed now) however not if they can do it all in 1 suit.. (HA now..)

[qbert2]

I'm not too worried about this. I think there's a greater potential for more versatility in loadout with this new system than with the old one.

[MrTinkles]

I am not a PS1 vet, but as my interest in PS2 grows, I have gone and watched some streams of PS1. Every single person I watched was a one man army. Sure there were 30 or 40 people all from the same faction or outfit playing in the same area, but they weren't playing together.

I think I'm veering off-topic...but guess others have already done that...so...

I was intrigued by this comment..


This may be true these days...but you could not be further from the truth if you are trying to describe the game in its early years.

A decent squad with a squad leader who half knew what they were doing (or even better, several good squads working together) with a mix of armours/weapons/vehicles chosen for the particular situation we faced....would kick ass...and be more than a match for much larger groups of "one man armies". Of course there were always plenty who couldn't/wouldn't work together but they usually spent most of their time in-game respawning...

I have never, never played a game where the tactics could be so deep and cooperation between players was so important and where a good mix of "classes" was such a help (god knows I've played just about everything out there!)...

Whether this is the case in PS2 remains to be seen....I rather (sadly) doubt it. It will, however, be due to rather more than just whether we can loot backpacks!

I sometimes wonder if the barrier to PS1 ever becoming mainstream success was partly this aspect. Your average fps/mmo gamer's appreciation of cooperation tends to stop at "let's go down this street next time"... Even that's too much for a lot of people. I guess one problem for the PS2 team is to cater for these players as well as those (which would include me) who are happy to wait a few minutes while we assemble a group that can "get the job done"....

[Zebasiz]

You know, I've been wondering. With Planetside 2 having a class system... is it REALLY different from PS1?
Aside from choosing what went where in your loadout, It seems the same.
Planetside 1: As you "level up" you spend your certs into different focuses, Perhaps engineering or medic or heavy assault etc. Then you would ahve your loadout for that speciffic task on your favorite menu. But are able to equip a different loadout if you wanter to do something else. Example: I spend points for the medic certs. I have my medic loadout in the fav. menu. But I can select a loadout for assaulting If I chose to, which could contain no medic device in it. I may not be as good an assault, as I didn't cert the armor or weapons for it yet, but I could still do it.
In Planetside 2: I can spend points into different cert trees. speccing into the infil. class. And under that class tab I can select different loadout for him. my weapons, tools, camo, etc. And save that to a favorite tab within that class. But if I desired, I could go and play Heavy assault, not being as good at it, but still playing it, with a loadout I set up and set to a favorite on that class tab.
Really the only difference I am seeing is that you have to click 1 extra tab before selecting your Fav. option.
All it seems to be doing is keeping me from being able to heal myself with the medical tool while weilding a massive chaingun, which was possible in PS1. Seems like that does more to keep people from being a "super soldier" and forces them to rely on teamates.

[GreatMazinkaise]

MrTinkles, alongside your comments it should be pointed out that the MARKOV victory at E3 2005 was achieved entirely by BR 6 to 9s working in Teamspeak coordinated platoons. All of them had Medium Assault and the Mosquito certed, but were otherwise free to determine their own loadouts.

At least 6 of the Monolith caps were achieved by members of MARKOV, despite superior numbers of NC/VS (the other empires gave up towards the end of the event accusing us of team stacking).

[SergeantNubins]

I was a bit concerned with the loss of lootable corpses. Not because of wanting to loot other faction guns, i dont really care about that and never did. However, in PS1 my outfit were a tight knit team that stuck together like glue and focused heavily on taking a key location (CC, gen etc) and holding it for as long as it took. Everyone had to be certed advanced medic, we avoided guns that ran out of ammo quickly (gauss mainly) and our maxes had 75% of their storage dedicated to caarrying med/eng ammo, shotgun shells and grenade packs. There were times where we were only finally uprooted from a position because we had all literally run out of ammo and were down to knives. When backpacks of fallen oponents stayed long enough they were scavenged as quickly as possible. Thats the part that concerns me, ammo management on long ops.

However.. the more i think about it.. the more i dont care about this. The addition of an ammo pack for one of the classes helps manage this system so we dont have to rely on the very flakey backpack system, most backpacks instantly vanished in heavy fighting anyway, you only got a chance when things were quiet. So having a more relliable way of resupplying seems like a plus.

I also think this class system is only going to encourage team play. The way i see things going, having watched all the e3 live streams, is that outfit squads will end up assigning themselves capture points within a base to take and hold and you are going to need teamwork to do it effectively. There were plenty of times in the e3 steams where i saw teamwork paying off, but you cant expect to see serious organised teamplay from a random mix of people like that. But I think a squad of 10 will probably have a makeup of 2 x maxes, 2 x engineers, 2 x medics, 2 x light assault and 2 x heavy assault. If id swap anything out id replace the heavy assault with engineers or medics. And if what they were saying during the live stream is anything to go by (the ammo pack probably wont end up being a light assault item), id probably strip that down further to just engineers, medics and maxes. Whatever the case, im really looking forward to experimenting and developing new tactics.. and there seems to be much much more depth and thinking needed to get it right. After all last time, we just needed 2 maxes and 8 Rexos to do everything we needed.

[SergeantNubins]

Oh also, with regards to the customisable inventory .. im sure a lot of people liked tinkering with their invetory slots (myself included) and I had a rexo loadout i liked of med/eng tool equipped, two jackhammers (one loaded with AV for maxes the other ai for normal use) 3 med kits, command tool, rek, 1 spare eng ammo, 1 spare med ammo and the rest spare shotgun ammo. But... this sytem has just been upgraded with the tools and perks unlocks. I imagine stuff like med kits will be a cert unlock you pay resources to use, much like hand grenades, it certainly seems to work in that way, so I dont think i have really lost anything with the changes.

[TeaLeaf]

Removing the inventory system isn't really "dumbing down". I'd only consider the removal of complexity (note, not the same thing as depth) as "dumbing down" if the complexity added a lot to the game in the first place.

Class systems are easier to balance and make teamwork both more natural (you know anyone dressed as a medic can heal you, for example) and more necessary (you can't build a swiss army knife character that doesn't need allies).

[Xaine]

Also going to miss this feature.

They're dumbing down the game for the waves of people who will burst into tears when something isn't embarrassingly obvious, and they might have to think a little bit.

No the devs fault, it's what the gaming community has become.

Welcome to the CoD/WoW generation.

[Littleman]

The inventory system amounted to taking the basic and obvious choices of med app, engi tool, and 2 weapons of your choosing, then filling in the rest of the space with a mix of ammo and supplies organized in a fashion that maximized use of available space.

If you come in here and tell me you didn't do that, you were gimping yourself, lying or spent most of your time in close proximity to a terminal or rolled in a vehicle/aircraft 90% of the time. It was the most common setup in game, made even worse with the rexo buff.

BR20 didn't stop the one-man armies, BR20 was still enough certs to have rexo-med-eng-ha-AV and STILL have spare certs. BR20 merely restricted characters from performing any additional roles like driving, piloting, stealth, etc.

PS2's class system removes the unnecessary restrictions, but also prevents the one-man army setups. Sure, now a player as access to all of the old PS1 certs, but they can't set up the OP combos of old that made them into one-man armies.

All suggestions regarding "restrictions" to the old system are quite literally synonomous with the class system.

"If you bring this, you can't bring that!" Class system has that covered! Medics can't haul around engi tools or miniguns! Engineers can't haul around defibrillators! HA are only capable of spewing a lot of ammo!

"BR20 restricted certs enough that no one made a one-man army!" Except one still could, but their ONLY option was to play that one-man army. PS2 allows everyone to have options with what they bring to the fight at all times, they just choose which one they want to specialize in for faster reloads, cool gadgetry and attachments, etc.

The inventory system wasn't complicated, just unrestrictive for the most part and near worthless with a class system in place. What we have access to in PS1 are the basics of PS2. Don't say the game is getting over simplified, especially over the loss of choosing an ammo pack over a medkit, PS2 is bringing MORE than PS1 ever had to offer. I don't recall being able to choose placing a foregrip, shotgun, or launcher onto my rifle in PS1 (assuming these are attachments in PS2.) My cycler always was and always is a Cycler in PS1.

Streamlining is the act of cutting all the unnecessary bloat. We lost a lot of vehicles. We lost a good number of weaponry (some made simply obsolete, such as the punisher.) I'm sorry you view the loss of inventory as some act of blasphemy. PS2 won't realize the player numbers it needs and deserves catering to the PS1 crowd. A great many - too many - have given up on PS1 for a myriad of reasons including it's mechanics. PS1 is on life support precisely because it's doing poorly, but SOE won't lay the shining beacon of light to rest before it's descendant is ready to carry the torch.

[Bobby Shaftoe]

BR20 didn't stop the one-man armies

BR20 was enough to be a maxed out Infantryman, little more.

[2] MA
[4] HA
[3] AV
[3] SA (Remember, Deci was SA at release)
[3] RExo
[3] Med
[3] Eng

2 points left for either an ATV or Adv med/CE or AMS

If you went for advmed/CE you had no transport, if you went ams/atv you couldnt deploy CE and still required others to hack enemy terminals etc.

It's strange how PS was an FPS, yet people seemed to hate others spending ALL of their certs on combat capabilities/effectiveness.

They've lobotomised the gameplay by introducing things such as the 'medic class' to 'promote teamwork' through hideous mechanics such as in-combat ranged healing and AOE healing, whilst simultaneously introducing regenerating shields and health (taking the place of med app/bank) which diminishes the whole point of what they were trying to accomplish in the first place!

[Deadeye]

Backpacks and vehicle trunks in PS1 were part of the (very flexible) inventory system.

PS2's inventory system is quite different. You pick the class you want to spawn as, and based on that you pick the gear you are allowed to have.

There was talk of being able to loot enemies way back when... but I haven't seen any evidence that it's in-game currently. The kind of issues that Higby points to in these situations is how do you handle looting a weapon that has a bunch of customizations on it that you aren't certed for?

You just give it to them. It was one of the main reasons to pick up an enemy's weapon in BF3: to see what attachment others were using and to drop an ammo crate or medic pack then switch back. I think they're going a bit overboard with the whole certification thing. So what if the guy doesn't have the cert points for a scope? He's probably not going to be alive for more than a few minutes depending on the intensity of the battle, so why not just let him fool around with it? Is it really that bad?

[Littleman]

BR20 was enough to be a maxed out Infantryman, little more.

[2] MA
[4] HA
[3] AV
[3] SA (Remember, Deci was SA at release)
[3] RExo
[3] Med
[3] Eng

2 points left for either an ATV or Adv med/CE or AMS

If you went for advmed/CE you had no transport, if you went ams/atv you couldnt deploy CE and still required others to hack enemy terminals etc.

It's strange how PS was an FPS, yet people seemed to hate others spending ALL of their certs on combat capabilities/effectiveness.

They've lobotomised the gameplay by introducing things such as the 'medic class' to 'promote teamwork' through hideous mechanics such as in-combat ranged healing and AOE healing, whilst simultaneously introducing regenerating shields and health (taking the place of med app/bank) which diminishes the whole point of what they were trying to accomplish in the first place!

This IS the one man army.

If you're rolling around in a tank or an aircraft, I don't care if you're in standard armor with the big ACE and that laser pointer thingy or packing a minigun, med app, and engi tool, it's the freaking tank/aircraft you're in I'm concerned with. IF you bail out, $#!%, that sucks, good news was they did restrict armor there.

Neither the tank nor the aircraft could repair unless the driver got out and equipped themselves with the proper tool, making them vulnerable, or found themselves a repair terminal/lodestar, taking them away from the fight or relying on someone else anyway.

Classes are about preventing the number one occurance of Planetside: infantry one man armies. That is: HA/AV/REXO/MED/ENGI. Not precisely that set up regarding the weaponry, but the last 3 were pretty much a part of most player's grunt setup. These troops were 100% self-sustainable and solo capable. Classes are not about restricting vehicles, they were already classes in and of themselves even in PS1. Classes are about making infantry interdependent on others.

If one can not see this, they choose not to. The class system restricts what a player may bring to a fight, but does not restrict them to only ever bringing any one specific set of equipment to a fight like BR20 did. It's obvious the class system is here to stay. It just fixes the restrictions of old BR20, while also fixing the complete freedom BR40 offered.

If old Planetside worked the way PS2 will, this wouldn't be an issue, because people wouldn't have the old, broken system to cling onto like it as perfect. The old cert system is horribly flawed, no matter how many certs one has access to.

[DarkChiron]

They've lobotomised the gameplay by introducing things such as the 'medic class' to 'promote teamwork' through hideous mechanics such as in-combat ranged healing and AOE healing, whilst simultaneously introducing regenerating shields and health (taking the place of med app/bank) which diminishes the whole point of what they were trying to accomplish in the first place!

So I assume by what you wrote here you're under some delusion that the passive health/sheild regeneration is going to be at a rate comparable to a medic's heal gun?

[proxy]

Also going to miss this feature.

They're dumbing down the game for the waves of people who will burst into tears when something isn't embarrassingly obvious, and they might have to think a little bit.

No the devs fault, it's what the gaming community has become.

Welcome to the CoD/WoW generation.

No. Strawman. I played far more games with classes before I ever played Planetside.

There is no functional difference between changing loadout and changing class AND loadout within that class.

[Bobby Shaftoe]

So I assume by what you wrote here you're under some delusion that the passive health/sheild regeneration is going to be at a rate comparable to a medic's heal gun?

Funny, since there's no 'armour' in PS2, shields are effective health, health that regens in about 15 seconds from not taking damage, that regens WITHOUT YOU DOING ANYTHING, you don't need to stop moving, equip a bank/med app and sit there completely vulnerable to get that health.

So yes, it trades a slower recharge rate for not having the player required to do anything.

[Snipefrag]

I've said it before. The clunky tetris mini-game inventory system was one of my least favorite things about Planetside. I'm overjoyed to see it done way with.

My thoughts exactly, it was clunky and slightly annoying. One of the things that just raised the learning curve of the game. I do hope that hacking vehicles/using enemy weapons do make a return in some guise, but i dont think you need an inventory system like in PS1 to make that happen.

[DarkChiron]

Funny, since there's no 'armour' in PS2, shields are effective health, health that regens in about 15 seconds from not taking damage, that regens WITHOUT YOU DOING ANYTHING, you don't need to stop moving, equip a bank/med app and sit there completely vulnerable to get that health.

So yes, it trades a slower recharge rate for not having the player required to do anything.

So what's your point? People shouldn't get any shields/armor back at all without a medic babysitting them? How does that fit into the model they have where it's easier for you do die? Where did you get the figure that shields recharge in 15 seconds? If they did, why shouldn't they when they appear to absorb all of 2-3 bullets?

[BattsTR]

I think the fact that everyone got engi and medic to heal themselves helped teamwork in PS1. There was never a shortage of people helping to heal each other. Maxes would get healed by 5 or 6 people at once even if they weren't part of your direct platoon or outfit. People would pitch in to help repair my skeeter without me even asking for it. I think when classes are implemented less people will have the ability to help their fellow player out.

[Bobby Shaftoe]

So what's your point? People shouldn't get any shields/armor back at all without a medic babysitting them? How does that fit into the model they have where it's easier for you do die? Where did you get the figure that shields recharge in 15 seconds? If they did, why shouldn't they when they appear to absorb all of 2-3 bullets?

No, it's because a large part for people whining about super soldiers was their ability to sustain themselves without external support, something still present in PS2 and now it doesn't even require them to perform any action.

Meh, not bothered about this anymore, just going to be whoring up kills in OP airchav and farming all the new zerglings.

[StumpyTheOzzie]

how am i supposed to lay a minefield as an infil using an AMS or wraith now?

[RandomNPC]

If you knew at all what you were talking about, PS1 was a "failure" (which it really wasn't, there's a reason it's still around today) because in 2003 nobody had the hardware to run it. Nothing was wrong with its mechanics, in fact, it was much more in depth than pretty much every FPS out there. The scale, the empires, the teamwork, the variety, the persistence, the immersion, the details, the community. Maybe it wasn't graphically as pretty as other games, but damn, it didn't need that at all.

Many here have had more fun in and played Planetside more than any other game, because it was something different. Not the generic WWII 64 player match based simplistic FPS games of the time.

It was a failure, that doesn't mean it wasn't fun. It had lots of depth, that doesn't mean it wasn't overly complex with clunky mechanics.

Yes it was awesome as an mmo, yes it was a failure as an fps. Many many improvements to be had, and they're moving in the right direction - because PS1 was never visioned to be an mmo first and an fps second, but due to limitations it had to become that.

Edit: And why is it considered dumbing something down when the original system was overly complex and inaccessible? The class system is simple, yes, it allows you to quickly have access to your equipment you would have otherwise have to swap equipment from an inventory. You can still customize your loadouts and whatnot. It just prevents heavy's from being able to heal themselves, improving the need for teamwork.
Why is this bad? "Because it's not the same as PS1" QQ

You call it dumbing down for the masses, I call it making the game more accessible. Twelve of one and a dozen of the other? Sure, but why the hell are you thinking it's a bad thing? You want PS2 to be as unsuccessful as PS1 was? I for one would like to have people playing the game.