3rd Person View and the F2P Market

[Atheosim]

I have a very quick idea that would allow for 3rd person but almost completely negate its tactical value. Essentially, 3rd person would be a for-cash implant that is infinitely reusable. It would take form as a camera that you can rotate around a focused point upon your avatar that takes ten seconds to "construct" and ten seconds to "tear down". The lengths of time are infinitely adjustable, so we can test for tactical significance. Additionally, while the setting up, using the camera, and tearing down, you are firstly immobile, secondly incapable of firing your weapon or using any item, and thirdly restricted to /em commands and the like in terms of any type of movement.

This would be excellent for the market because it allows people who are interested in buying up cosmetics a chance to see their decked out avatars actually in the game world (at a price) without giving them a tactical advantage, and in fact, if my idea pans out, giving them a rather massive tactical disadvantage. What say you?

BTW. will figure out how to make a poll later, have to run to work.

[Warborn]

They've said that the cash shop will be only for this which don't affect gameplay.

[bullet]

Sounds like an okay idea as long as its only for appearance/cosmetic purposes and can't be abused like 3rd person in PS1. Make it have a distinct sound when its being constructed and taken down so people around know when they can get a free kill by kids trying to wall hump again. :rolleyes:

[Rumblepit]

first and foremost huge pay to win feature... wont happen. second it has no place in a fps game, 8 years ago it was a cool feature.

i dont understand why people want to face a wall stand in third person and wait for kills.

i have seen it many times in alpha gameplay, the UI dose show you what you look like.

[kaffis]

So now, you just need two people on voice comms to corner hump? Or, better yet -- two accounts side-by-side!

No thanks.

I can see myself in the equipment screen if I want to. Make sure that's rotatable, and that's plenty fine.

[Bags]

first and foremost huge pay to win feature... wont happen. second it has no place in a fps game, 8 years ago it was a cool feature.

How is a 10 second setup, 10 second tear down a huge pay to win feature?

[Rumblepit]

So now, you just need two people on voice comms to corner hump? Or, better yet -- two accounts side-by-side!

No thanks.

I can see myself in the equipment screen if I want to. Make sure that's rotatable, and that's plenty fine.



^^^^^^ was thinking the same thing as me.....:cool:


well it mite work in the warp gates!!!!! you can watch yourself and everyone else going into battle :)

but really???? gonna set up a camera in the middle of a war to see what you look like?? common.... i smell hidden agenda !!!!

[Eyeklops]

Sounds like a great idea so long as it cannot be used for combat.

P.S. Some people really need to learn how to read the OP fully before spewing garbage.

[Blackwolf]

How is a 10 second setup, 10 second tear down a huge pay to win feature?

So now, you just need two people on voice comms to corner hump? Or, better yet -- two accounts side-by-side!


Question raised and shot down by quintuple cannons.

Frankly the "I wanna see myself in game" idea is a simple thing to fix. 3rdPV available in footholds only. Zero possible advantages since, if I assume correctly, you won't even be able to fire a gun while inside your safe zone.

Any excuses raised for having the ability outside the foothold are just that. Excuses.

[Bags]

If you had two accounts side by side, the second one would be a free kill since it's out in the open.

Completely ridiculous amount of effort for a slight advantage, but whatever.

[Winfernal]

Third person is confirmed to NOT be on infantry.

[Rumblepit]

like i said it would work great in a warp gate.!!!!! thats as far as it goes..... why in gods name would you need it anywhere else???? just to camp with it.... thats all.

i was born at night, but not last night!

[SpcFarlen]

"I dont need to see how cool i am, i already know how cool i am. I need other people to realize how cool i am."

So no i dont really want to see this.

[Bags]

"I dont need to see how cool i am, i already know how cool i am. I need other people to realize how cool i am."

So no i dont really want to see this.

Well that's kind of the whole point of visual customization. :rolleyes:

[Blackwolf]

If you had two accounts side by side, the second one would be a free kill since it's out in the open.

Completely ridiculous amount of effort for a slight advantage, but whatever.

Free kill means what? If someone had 2 accounts running side by side, chances are they aren't concerned about the K/D ratio of their secondary account so much as the K/D ratio on the primary. And I doubt they care about giving someone else A free kill if it means racking up a few on their own end.

Not to mention this remark doesn't address the first (and imo the more likely) scenario of 2 players working to achieve the same goal. It's tougher to exploit but still very much exploitable.

Now an idea that might work (though I'm not proposing it) is 3rdPV being a "look over the shoulder" deal. You hit 3rdPV and you see yourself from the front and maybe a little bit to either side behind you. This would be a quick snap glance backwards to simulate having your head on a swivel, so to speak.

No ability to manipulate your views with free mouse look, or rotating around yourself. You get a good close up of your face and a good portion of your upper body (which would be blocking anything directly behind you from view). You retain your blind spot, you have an awkward situation to come out of if you plan on wall humping with this (which admittedly is entirely possible, which is why I'm not officially proposing or endorsing it).

[Rumblepit]

Well that's kind of the whole point of visual customization. :rolleyes:

this maybe why they have that really cool UI thingy.... that shows you what you look like.


i mite be wrong :rolleyes:

[Bags]

that shows you what you like.:

What?

[Rumblepit]

What?

the UI in planetside 2 shows your character. the op made this thread with the assumption that most of the people that use this forum are stupid. you seem to agree with this fact.... because for what reason other then to camp for kills would you need a camera setup via 3rd person???? when you can just press the C key and look at your UI.

if you want start a poll for a combat 3rd person camera that takes 10 secs to setup ,,,,,,then just say it.... i feel like im being lied to by a bunch of kids .

[Bags]

the UI in planetside 2 shows your character. the op made this thread with the assumption that most of the people that use this forum are stupid. you seem to agree with this fact.... because for what reason other then to camp for kills would you need a camera setup via 3rd person???? when you can just press the C key and look at your UI.

if you want start a poll for a combat 3rd person camera that takes 10 secs to setup ,,,,,,then just say it.... i feel like im being lied to by a bunch of kids .

And I feel like I'm reading posts made by a kid.

It's kind of funny, I don't even want this.

[Blackwolf]

the UI in planetside 2 shows your character. the op made this thread with the assumption that most of the people that use this forum are stupid. you seem to agree with this fact.... because for what reason other then to camp for kills would you need a camera setup via 3rd person???? when you can just press the C key and look at your UI.

if you want start a poll for a combat 3rd person camera that take 10 secs to setup ,,,,,,then just say it.... i feel like im being lied to by a bunch of kids .

Ha I feel all derp now. Yeah it's been in a lot of videos so it's not like it's a huge secret. That screen where you select certs weapons and the like has a full size image of your avatar complete with animation. It might not be available whenever you want but like as not you'll have some access to something similar whenever you want.

[Heaven]

I did say no, but although I said no I really think a 3rd person on our MAX units would be nice as when looking at the gameplay they seem to turn pretty slowly, having this 3rd person on a MAX would be pretty nice! The only thing then is wall camping so... :/ Hmm

[Rumblepit]

And I feel like I'm reading posts made by a kid.

It's kind of funny, I don't even want this.

hmmmm lets try again.


for what reason other then to camp for kills would you need a camera setup via 3rd person???? when you can just press the C key and look at your character on the UI

[Bags]

hmmmm lets try again.


for what reason other then to camp for kills would you need a camera setup via 3rd person???? when you can just press the C key and look at your character on the UI

Dunno. The renders in the 3d world look a lot better with lighting than they do in the UI. You also can't see yourself surrounded by your peers in the UI.

[Rumblepit]

Dunno. The renders in the 3d world look a lot better with lighting than they do in the UI. You also can't see yourself surrounded by your peers in the UI.

like i said keep it in the warp gate then..... no place for it in combat.

[Bags]

That's fine then, I thought that's what the op wanted.

[Bravix]

Just make it so that when you go to third person view you can only see your character and their immediate surroundings. Can't move and run. Can't see any other characters/vehicles and can't see any effect created by weapons and what not.

But that'd likely be a bi*ch to code.

[kaffis]

Dunno. The renders in the 3d world look a lot better with lighting than they do in the UI. You also can't see yourself surrounded by your peers in the UI.
F2P means having somebody in your outfit with an alt-account to provide posed screenshots and whatnot of your outfit all geared up and looking badass will not be hard.

[Erendil]

Just make it so that when you go to third person view you can only see your character and their immediate surroundings. Can't move and run. Can't see any other characters/vehicles and can't see any effect created by weapons and what not.

But that'd likely be a bi*ch to code.

I might be okay w/ that. Or if it worked only inside your Empire's foothold bubble.

Otherwise, no. It'd be way too easy for you to set yourself up in an observation post for your squad/outfit that's 100% behind cover and that allows you to be completely unseen while you call out exact positions on and strengths of enemy forces. And it certainly shouldn't be a cash shop item it if you could see enemies w/ it.

[RSphil]

tbh i dont like the 3rd person view with infantry and tanks. makes it hard to sneak on someone if they can see around them.
not bothered for aircraft but would like no 3rd person view at all.

just the way im used to playing fps. never had it and never needed it. its not a fps if it has 3rd person imo lol Fps the F is the key :P

[KTNApollo]

3rd person has no place in an FPS (other than maneuvering through tight spaces in vehicles). People simply go into 3rd person against a wall and wait for kills because they have no skill.

[Atheosim]

3rd person has no place in an FPS (other than maneuvering through tight spaces in vehicles). People simply go into 3rd person against a wall and wait for kills because they have no skill.

1. Did anybody read the OP? How is a ten second tear down going to give you a tactical advantage? The point is that you can't flip in and out of it like PS1.

2. If you're "100% behind cover", the camera is still focused upon your avatar, so you can either see behind you (sort of) or very minimally to the sides of you. Also, calling out sizes of forces is reserved for spotting. Most of the ideas that you guys are burning this idea down for are already contained in various other mechanics already planned for the game.

3. Like another poster said, even if you did use an alt account or squadmate, the tactical advantage would be so minimal that I can't see it being ever used. Why have a motionless, defenseless target when you can have another set of guns? Or simply an invisible infiltrator spotting everything in front?

4. Showing you what you look like on a black background is not as interesting as seeing your character in the game world with the lighting effects shining upon them and with other players being active around them.

5. I think that there is minimal to no tactical superiority to be gained from this, but I'd be willing to settle with it only being usable in a warp bubble. Why not have it only usable in a warp bubble? I don't think there's a single conceivable reason that it actually shouldn't be aside from you simply not caring about having 3rd person at all.

[Blackwolf]

That's fine then, I thought that's what the op wanted.

No where in his thread did he specify warp gates. In fact he indicated exactly the opposite when talking about the delay between setting up and breaking down the camera being "adjustable for tactical use". Which immediately suggested thoughts on using it tactically.

Yes people read his post, that is precisely why problems are had with the proposed idea.

[Atheosim]

No where in his thread did he specify warp gates. In fact he indicated exactly the opposite when talking about the delay between setting up and breaking down the camera being "adjustable for tactical use". Which immediately suggested thoughts on using it tactically.

Yes people read his post, that is precisely why problems are had with the proposed idea.

I meant that the devs could adjust it by increasing or decreasing the setup/teardown time specifically to disable any tactical advantage people might be seeking. I even said "so we can test for tactical significance" and I thought that from what the rest of my entire post said it was absolutely granted that we were looking for tactical significance to be zero.

[Atheosim]

Given my most recent clarifications, are there any further qualms with this idea? I honestly think it would be harmless.

[Blackwolf]

I meant that the devs could adjust it by increasing or decreasing the setup/teardown time specifically to disable any tactical advantage people might be seeking. I even said "so we can test for tactical significance" and I thought that from what the rest of my entire post said it was absolutely granted that we were looking for tactical significance to be zero.

Your "clarifications" amounted to nothing.

People will abuse this system so long as they can take it into combat. The idea is flawed, plain and simple. Yes people will use squad mates to abuse it and no, no one really cares if their dummy account dies or gives someone "a free kill", they will use it if it provides easy kills.

The easiest solution is to just limit 3rdPV to warp gates. No need to toss up a "pay for it" bit for something we probably should have anyway as long as it provides absolutely zero possibility for exploitation. And again no reason for a 10 second set up and break down ordeal for 3rdPV in warp gates.

If it was limited to warp gate use, there is no possible exploitation because there is no target for you to exploit it on.

And let's make this clear. No one mentioned that utilizing team mates and voice chat to exploit this would be tactically unsound. I said the odds of using a dummy account and dual accounting just for this set up are low because the setup time is high and the reward miniscule in comparison. Having a team mate though? Instant free kills.

Sorry but you are posting in a very anti-3rdPV forum. You are going to catch flak for suggesting any form of idea or cognitive thought that brings it into combat zones. People might be too hasty to read the OP and actually give clear feedback, but don't insult those that do and did by casually tossing their arguments to the side.

[Atheosim]

Your "clarifications" amounted to nothing.

People will abuse this system so long as they can take it into combat. The idea is flawed, plain and simple. Yes people will use squad mates to abuse it and no, no one really cares if their dummy account dies or gives someone "a free kill", they will use it if it provides easy kills.

The easiest solution is to just limit 3rdPV to warp gates. No need to toss up a "pay for it" bit for something we probably should have anyway as long as it provides absolutely zero possibility for exploitation. And again no reason for a 10 second set up and break down ordeal for 3rdPV in warp gates.

If it was limited to warp gate use, there is no possible exploitation because there is no target for you to exploit it on.

And let's make this clear. No one mentioned that utilizing team mates and voice chat to exploit this would be tactically unsound. I said the odds of using a dummy account and dual accounting just for this set up are low because the setup time is high and the reward miniscule in comparison. Having a team mate though? Instant free kills.

Sorry but you are posting in a very anti-3rdPV forum. You are going to catch flak for suggesting any form of idea or cognitive thought that brings it into combat zones. People might be too hasty to read the OP and actually give clear feedback, but don't insult those that do and did by casually tossing their arguments to the side.

I really don't understand where you got the sensationalist idea that seeing an enemy means you can attack them without retaliation. Explain to me exactly how seeing an enemy before they see you amounts to a "free kill", ESPECIALLY under the circumstances that they'll almost always prepared for a person around the corner anyways.

I never mentioned anything about warpgates in the OP, and to amend my idea, IF it were limited to only a warpgate, FFS obviously there would be no set up nor cooldown time, and it would almost assuredly be free.

Again you mention "instant free kills". I don't think you understand what that means.

And it's abundantly clear that 3rdPV in combat zones would be an issue that would instantly be flamed, but it's clear that your consideration for my own arguments are absolutely minimal.

[Blackwolf]

I really don't understand where you got the sensationalist idea that seeing an enemy means you can attack them without retaliation. Explain to me exactly how seeing an enemy before they see you amounts to a "free kill", ESPECIALLY under the circumstances that they'll almost always prepared for a person around the corner anyways.

I never mentioned anything about warpgates in the OP, and to amend my idea, IF it were limited to only a warpgate, FFS obviously there would be no set up nor cooldown time, and it would almost assuredly be free.

Again you mention "instant free kills". I don't think you understand what that means.

And it's abundantly clear that 3rdPV in combat zones would be an issue that would instantly be flamed, but it's clear that your consideration for my own arguments are absolutely minimal.

As is yours for everyone elses, just to defend an idea.

I'm done arguing the point, re-read what was written out and keep posting against that.

[Atheosim]

As is yours for everyone elses, just to defend an idea.

I'm done arguing the point, re-read what was written out and keep posting against that.

Hahahaha. Okay, Blackwolf. :rolleyes:

[CutterJohn]

The danger of third person view is wall camping. We all did it in PS1, some more than others. Rather lame.

Other than that specific instance, it has extremely minor effects on gameplay.

Its also something many people enjoy, for various reasons.

Solution: If your character couldn't see the enemy from their position, they aren't rendered in third person mode.

Simpler, but flawed, solution: Just don't render anyone within 20m or so while in third person.

[Atheosim]

The danger of third person view is wall camping. We all did it in PS1, some more than others. Rather lame.

Other than that specific instance, it has extremely minor effects on gameplay.

Its also something many people enjoy, for various reasons.

Solution: If your character couldn't see the enemy from their position, they aren't rendered in third person mode.

Simpler, but flawed, solution: Just don't render anyone within 20m or so while in third person.

Wall camping wouldn't work because of the 10 second teardown. I'm not going to deny that it's possible that a team might use it to their advantage, but with 3D spotting I don't understand how it's better to have them a vulnerable easy target than have extra guns or an infil 3D spotting.