Anyone else worried about the Max?

[Vetto]

Been watching the Live stream and Max units are dropping like flies to normal fire just watch a guy run threw 3 with out dying.

[Razicator]

Been watching the Live stream and Max units are dropping like flies to normal fire just watch a guy run threw 3 with out dying.

BETA ZOMG BETA BETA

Now that we got that out of the way :lol:, the MAX that we saw were of people brand new to the game. Plus there was not that much unit cohesion, so an isolated MAX unit against multiple agile infantry, especially outdoors, would lose. I wouldn't worry too much.

[Grimster]

Not worried at all.

I have full confidence in the developers that they will tweak and balance the game during beta.

[blazie]

I'm sure they will be sorted before beta, the fact they can drive vehicles at the moment shows where they are in terms of tweeking MAX units. :D

[ikon]

for all we know those kids had double aa guns equipped on their maxs.

disregard balance till beta

[p0intman]

Because I don't care to actually type very much lately, heres an excerpt from wikipedia:

Pre-alpha

Pre-alpha refers to all activities performed during the software project prior to testing. These activities can include requirements analysis, software design, software development, and unit testing.

In typical open source development, there are several types of pre-alpha versions. Milestone versions include specific sets of functions and are released as soon as the functionality is complete.

Alpha

The alpha phase of the release life cycle is the first phase to begin software testing (alpha is the first letter of the Greek alphabet, used as the number 1). In this phase, developers generally test the software using white box techniques. Additional validation is then performed using black box or gray box techniques, by another testing team. Moving to black box testing inside the organization is known as alpha release.

Alpha software can be unstable and could cause crashes or data loss. The exception to this is when the alpha is available publicly (such as a pre-order bonus), in which developers normally push for stability so that their testers can test properly. External availability of alpha software is uncommon in proprietary software. However, open source software, in particular, often have publicly available alpha versions, often distributed as the raw source code of the software.

The alpha phase usually ends with a feature freeze, indicating that no more features will be added to the software. At this time, the software is said to be a feature complete.

Beta

Beta (named after the second letter of the Greek alphabet) is the software development phase following alpha. It generally begins when the software is feature complete. Software in the beta phase will generally have many more bugs in it than completed software, as well as speed/performance issues. The focus of beta testing is reducing impacts to users, often incorporating usability testing. The process of delivering a beta version to the users is called beta release and this is typically the first time that the software is available outside of the organization that developed it.

The users of a beta version are called beta testers. They are usually customers or prospective customers of the organization that develops the software, willing to test the software without charge, often receiving the final software free of charge or for a reduced price.

Beta version software is often useful for demonstrations and previews within an organization and to prospective customers. Some developers refer to this stage as a preview, prototype, technical preview (TP), or early access.
Some software is kept in perpetual beta—where new features and functionality are continually added to the software without establishing a firm "final" release.

Open and closed beta
Developers release either a closed beta or an open beta; closed beta versions are released to a restricted group of individuals for a user test by invitation, while open beta testers are from a larger group, or anyone interested. The testers report any bugs that they find, and sometimes suggest additional features they think should be available in the final version.

Examples of a major public beta test are:

In September 2000 a boxed version of Apple's Mac OS X Public Beta operating system was released.

Microsoft's release of community technology previews (CTPs) for "Longhorn" in January 2005.

Open betas serve the dual purpose of demonstrating a product to potential consumers, and testing among an extremely wide user base likely to bring to light obscure errors that a much smaller testing team might not find.

Release candidate

A release candidate (RC) is a beta version with potential to be a final product, which is ready to release unless significant bugs emerge. In this stage of product stabilization, all product features have been designed, coded and tested through one or more beta cycles with no known showstopper-class bug.

A release is called code complete when the development team agrees that no entirely new source code will be added to this release. There could still be source code changes to fix defects, changes to documentation and data files, and peripheral code for test cases or utilities.

Tl;dr: Beta is beta. They can balance later.

[Mezorin]

From I saw in the video, MAX suits got eaten alive by ES main battle tanks and Lightning tanks, so I'm not too worried about them. Yes, they are a force to be reckoned with indoors (woe to the COD kiddies when they try to run and gun quick scope against a MAX for the first time :) ), but come on, all of us here know a MAX can be solved with a few boomers, an AV weapon, or just running away behind cover really fast.

What I'd be worried about is a group of MAXes backed up by good engineers and medics with their pew pew heal/repairs going crashing into a base. That's going to be some glorious ass whooping right there if you are not prepared for it. The funny thing about "OMG rush!" tactics in Planetside though is you can prepare for them, or get buried by them, as this is a massive strategy game at heart as well as an FPS.

[GreatMazinkaise]

MAX units appear to be working as intended. Maybe tomorrow they'll decide to roll with rocket launchers. The same guys firing their rifles at MAX units are firing them at aircraft, after all.

[p0intman]

So, nobody noticed that MAX's can drive tanks and gun Libs?

Let the riots commence.
ohrly? you mean to say everything is final?

[GreatMazinkaise]

So, nobody noticed that MAX's can drive tanks and gun Libs?

Let the riots commence.

It was indicated that that "feature" would be going away in beta.

[Eyeklops]

So, nobody noticed that MAX's can drive tanks and gun Libs?

Let the riots commence.

Per Clegg during the video, that's for E3 only.

[DOUBLEXBAUGH]

I have absolutely zero problem with MAXes being squishy :groovy:

unfortunately I know they will tweak this some :(

[Fanglord]

If you listen to the commentators, they said several times that the class types had been unlocked to let people test everything out and get a feel for the large scale. It's why MAX's could driver vehicles and vehicles where being spawned like peanuts.

I gotta say though, bar the MAX tanks it looks hella fun as it is.

[2coolforu]

MAX's seemed fine to me, the only time they ever dropped was when they were being engaged by multiple enemies and and another MAX. In all the battles they appeared very tough, I mean in the kill-cam a Fission missle did 25% damage to one, that's a hell of a lot of hitpoints.

If anything they seemed rather overpowered, as the game went along the number of MAX units went up and up. They can turn just as fast as normal infantry which I think should be changed, they run as fast as a sprinting normal troops and can drop out of sprint in about half a second.

Indoors they were tearing through normal troops, infact I don't really see any normal infantry having a use indoors if MAX's are as powerful as shown. They didn't really seem to have a countermeasure other than getting Lib'd outside or getting taken on by 4-5 normal infantry/other MAX's.

But it is alpha and all, I think they just have too much maneuverability, too much damage and too much health. They should either be tough and low damage or moderate damage and moderate HP. At the moment they seem to have the best weapons, the best health and don't really pay for it all that much in maneuverability.

[NewSith]

MAXes can't jump so there's actually almost no dodging from missiles in a max, kinda changes many things.

[Virulence]

I liked how they weren't completely impervious to small arms fire.

With solid medic/engineer support, though, yeah - they're going to be an absolute terror.

[bigcracker]

No there was no cool down timers for the MAX or cost resources they could even get in tanks this was just like arena battle anything goes.When they are resources to buy the max and on a cool down timer it be better

[atone]

I liked how they weren't completely impervious to small arms fire.

With solid medic/engineer support, though, yeah - they're going to be an absolute terror.

definitely. i think that is key with what they said about making sure that you never feel like your ineffective while also rewarding those that team play. win/win:D

[GreatMazinkaise]

It took, what, 3 Deci shots to kill one back in the day? Now they can actually be hurt by small arms, but with that hit point pool they should retain their defensive and siege breaking capabilities.

The VS MAX is definitely the most agile... in its sprint/run mode it seems to be able to keep up with Agile-armored grunts.

[2coolforu]

MAXes can't jump so there's actually almost no dodging from missiles in a max, kinda changes many things.

Yeah, but the missile did 25% damage ingame. At least the fission did. Now the MAX moves just as fast as a heavy assault, they were pretty effective at long range, they have more health and they turn just as fast. Since medical app/engineer ap are class specific the Heavy Assault is basically on equal ground with that MAX unit, a MAX can carry AI/AV or AI/AA so again it has basically the same privelege as a heavy assault.

So a Heavy Assault guy requires 4 shots to kill the MAX but is in every other way it's equal or at a disadvantage. In Planetside MAX's were powerful but they required teammates to cover their flanks due to slow speed and slow turning, in Planetside 2 they can turn fast and move fast in sprint and dont take long to jump in/out of sprint. They don't require friends to cover their sides so they have all the power and none of the cost. If the MAX went into the open in Planetside the Heavy Assault could flank it and use movement but now that MAX's are about as fast in combat/turning as Heavy Assault the only real advantage among infantry is the vertical play that the Light Assault can bring to the game.

In other words MAX's have the power to take on 2-3 others with none of the tradeoff that their Planetside 1 equivalents made to get that power. I know it's silly to complain about alpha footage but they seriously need a turning rate lock or far longer time to come out of/go into sprint to be balanced.

[Furber]

http://img.printfection.com/14/257367/EQTN4.gif

[proxy]

Those MAX's did look pretty spry.

There should be a slow acceleration when strafing, etc. They should be dependent on squad mates to watch its back.

[proxy]

Yeah, we know it's alpha. We're judging alpha, not the final game.

This

[Furber]

Not worried at all.

I have full confidence in the developers that they will tweak and balance the game during beta.

This. Basically summed up by my image

[Haro]

I've said in early posts, it's really way to early to judge, especially since most of us and most planetside veterans haven't played yet.

But if I had to justify current balance, it'd be like this:

1. I like softer maxes. Purely personal opinion here, but since they will be part of indoor combat a lot, it was often difficult for me and others to get good AV weapons on them. So I think this is better, though I'm open to tuning.

2. More importantly, I think the class system will help balance this. For one, Maxes will be more common than ever, because they are much more available. People like playing them, and even in this gameplay, I saw a lot of brutal max footage, just tearing through people. They definitely have more staying power than regular infantry, and if you had the numbers of maxes in PS2 with PS1 armor, then they would be ridiculously overpowered. On top of that, maxes can go multi-role now, carrying both AV and AI weapons, or dual AI weapons, making them much more of a threat to infantry overall.

In addition, classes helps limit their hard counters while making some of their best allies more common. I think there will be more engineers in PS2 than one because they don't need elaborate certing, and are part of a more functional class. Therefore, repairing maxes can be very powerful, and should be encouraged. On the other hand, rockets will be more limited, and you just can't carry a deci in your inventory anymore, so I think that Maxes need more of a soft counter.


I think this cannot be stated enough: This is not Planetside. This is Planetside 2. Things are going to be different, and though some of you may want to have everything from the original come back, that's not going to happen and I hope, for everyone's sake, we keep an open mind about these things. From the sound of interviews and from some of the footage I saw, Maxes still have plenty of firepower and a lot of people loved playing as them. I can't truly say whether or not they're balanced, obviously, but just realize that we cannot truly judge this gameplay by the standards of the original. Too much has changed in the overall structure for the characteristics of the original to transfer untouched.

[lolroflroflcake]

Not particularly worried no, everytime someone tried to kill a MAX in the small bit of the stream I managed to get to see they did so one at a time. I think its acceptable for MAX units as they are supposed to perform the roll of indoor tanks. If you aren't coordinated or at least attacking en masse you should be turned into ground beef.

MAX units really wouldn't be effective in their roll if they couldn't easily shred individuals and repel small groups of infantry with no coordination. Now like I said I didn't see everything so maybe I missed something but I did get to see some MAX action and that was my impression.

[RadarX]

The MAX is a newer edition to regular olaytesting and will get plenty of scrutiny before launch.

[NewSith]

The MAX is a newer edition to regular olaytesting and will get plenty of scrutiny before launch.

Like removed armor regen?

[Aurmanite]

What I saw was smart MAX's living so long they ran out of ammo, and bad MAX's getting killed by light assault.

Looked about right to me.

[The Kush]

Nope it looks exactly like PS1, clearly you have never played PS1 or you wouldn't have made this thread

[Zekeen]

I'll keep this simple.

I liked the MAXes. Tough, not too tough, but more than a presence on the battlefield.

Also, there may be mods later for faster, more mobile, jumping, more armored, or altogether tougher MAXes. So don't fret if it's not quite your style.

[Haro]

MAX's seemed fine to me, the only time they ever dropped was when they were being engaged by multiple enemies and and another MAX. In all the battles they appeared very tough, I mean in the kill-cam a Fission missle did 25% damage to one, that's a hell of a lot of hitpoints.

If anything they seemed rather overpowered, as the game went along the number of MAX units went up and up. They can turn just as fast as normal infantry which I think should be changed, they run as fast as a sprinting normal troops and can drop out of sprint in about half a second.

Indoors they were tearing through normal troops, infact I don't really see any normal infantry having a use indoors if MAX's are as powerful as shown. They didn't really seem to have a countermeasure other than getting Lib'd outside or getting taken on by 4-5 normal infantry/other MAX's.

But it is alpha and all, I think they just have too much maneuverability, too much damage and too much health. They should either be tough and low damage or moderate damage and moderate HP. At the moment they seem to have the best weapons, the best health and don't really pay for it all that much in maneuverability.

This is a good point, but I think it needs to be taken with a grain of salt. This was a largely uncoordinated demo, with players often playing for kills rather than captures, which is totally fine in this case. I saw lots of players try to capture points in Max armor, only to fruitlessly stare at consoles. Also, I think the E3 setting for maxes in any vehicle also really broke balance, with it becoming the standard for most players. Maxes were really rather OP in this demo, but I don't think that will carry over even if that demo had been expanded to several bases and the proper max laws were observed a bit more carefully.

I saw the TR use their maxes very well, often in pairs securing points while lighter classes captured them. I think that's why they dominated so much later on in the podcast. I think there's value to maxes being powerful, but like with larger tanks, they can't take the abuse like they used to. I think they will need to be a force used with caution, because they can be lost easily if used carelessly.

[Knightwyvern]

Also, there may be mods later for faster, more mobile, jumping, more armored, or altogether tougher MAXes. So don't fret if it's not quite your style.

Great point. Don't like it? Change it. Who knows, perhaps there will be AP ammo as abilities for classes to allow them to do more damage to MAX units. Makes a lot of sense.

[Hmr85]

I was worried at first mainly because as soon as I flipped the feed on I saw a guy mow down two of them...but after watching for awhile you could definitely tell that maxs looked pretty spot on from the more competent players. If anything almost a tad too strong. I'll reserve judgment for beta for when I can get my hands on the game and give them a go.

[2coolforu]

This is a good point, but I think it needs to be taken with a grain of salt. This was a largely uncoordinated demo, with players often playing for kills rather than captures, which is totally fine in this case. I saw lots of players try to capture points in Max armor, only to fruitlessly stare at consoles. Also, I think the E3 setting for maxes in any vehicle also really broke balance, with it becoming the standard for most players. Maxes were really rather OP in this demo, but I don't think that will carry over even if that demo had been expanded to several bases and the proper max laws were observed a bit more carefully.

I saw the TR use their maxes very well, often in pairs securing points while lighter classes captured them. I think that's why they dominated so much later on in the podcast. I think there's value to maxes being powerful, but like with larger tanks, they can't take the abuse like they used to. I think they will need to be a force used with caution, because they can be lost easily if used carelessly.

The problem was I rarely saw MAX units getting killed by 1-2 infantry unless they were really terrible, however even obviously competent players were quickly dispatched against MAX units in situations where a MAX really should lose e.g. outdoors and from flanking attacks.

The reason was because the MAX unit has no turn rate limiter like it did in Planetside, that was the main 'teamwork' aspect of a MAX as it needed troops covering the flank, or a few MAX units coordinating to keep the arcs of fire covered. Now MAX units gain all the bonuses with none of that tradeoff seeing as the units we saw had some kind of regenerating ability and only the medic class has the ability to heal at the moment. The only thing they really sacrifice is the ability to hack and the ability to commandeer vehicles.

I mean, yes MAX's should win a straight up fight against an infantryman but they shouldn't out damage, have more toughness and have equal maneuverability. The MAX worked well as a slow, tough bulletsponge with a damage output pretty much equal to that of the infantry - perhaps even lower damage than the heavy infantry weapons. They were for breaking defences and taking the major hurt while the faster infantry moved in and flanked. Right now they seem to be a killwhores dream as they do more damage, take more punishment and have no restriction on aiming/speed.

As for alpha, I'm just pointing out the stuff that I think will be unbalanced when it comes to real play.

[IMMentat]

the shield regen didn't bother me it took a good 20 seconds to trigger and MAX units seme to have a fairly tight ammo reserve so unsupported they will get out manoevered and outsustained.

the MAX units are also slower moving than all the opther troop types so indirect fire should be effective.

[Haro]

The problem was I rarely saw MAX units getting killed by 1-2 infantry unless they were really terrible, however even obviously competent players were quickly dispatched against MAX units in situations where a MAX really should lose e.g. outdoors and from flanking attacks.

The reason was because the MAX unit has no turn rate limiter like it did in Planetside, that was the main 'teamwork' aspect of a MAX as it needed troops covering the flank, or a few MAX units coordinating to keep the arcs of fire covered. Now MAX units gain all the bonuses with none of that tradeoff seeing as the units we saw had some kind of regenerating ability and only the medic class has the ability to heal at the moment. The only thing they really sacrifice is the ability to hack and the ability to commandeer vehicles.

I mean, yes MAX's should win a straight up fight against an infantryman but they shouldn't out damage, have more toughness and have equal maneuverability. The MAX worked well as a slow, tough bulletsponge with a damage output pretty much equal to that of the infantry - perhaps even lower damage than the heavy infantry weapons. They were for breaking defences and taking the major hurt while the faster infantry moved in and flanked. Right now they seem to be a killwhores dream as they do more damage, take more punishment and have no restriction on aiming/speed.

As for alpha, I'm just pointing out the stuff that I think will be unbalanced when it comes to real play.

No no, I agree, I think we could very easily see some more tuning, and I'd be fine with that. I was just pointing that there are many more strategic factors that will help limit max usage that were absent from the game. Like I said before, I think it's really hard to judge balance just by watching people play, but it did seem that they played very fast and, when used properly, they were absolutely beast. I wouldn't exactly mind that if they had other limitations, like a cooldown on respawn or limitations on where they can spawn. Once we also see their larger mobility get taken away when they're limited to normal vehicle rules, we may find that they balance out a bit more.

I just find that the scenario of the demo itself (not really a whole lot of impetus for capture, relatively small playing area, lax rules) may have benefited the max more than the actual gameplay balance itself. We'll only know for sure in beta (which can't come soon enough.)

[GreatMazinkaise]

Well yeah, obviously they're playing Team Deathmatch mode... the MAX suit is going to excel at that sort of gameplay. Especially since it's traditionally the easiest "class" to play.

Maybe tomorrow some of those noobs will actually pull AV or use grenades/boomers.

[Fanglord]

Though from the footage, kinda emphasises the need for at least a clunky max melee attack. All those max's runnin round with no ammo :s
.

[CutterJohn]

Like removed armor regen?

To heck with that. It does not need to be the only unit in the game incapable of effecting self repairs. It was like that in PS1 as well, and was just as ridiculous.

[Knightwyvern]

Though from the footage, kinda emphasises the need for at least a clunky max melee attack. All those max's runnin round with no ammo :s
.

But that is what teamwork and Light Assaults are for ;)

[IMMentat]

just means the light assault were failing to fulfil their support role

[Xyntech]

Though from the footage, kinda emphasises the need for at least a clunky max melee attack. All those max's runnin round with no ammo :s
.

Didn't Purrrfectstorm confirm that MAXes have a melee attack in todays live stream?

[GreatMazinkaise]

Didn't Purrrfectstorm confirm that MAXes have a melee attack in todays live stream?

I believe so... I think the stuck AA MAX that dropped from the bomber was actually swiping at the air.

[Zekeen]

Didn't Purrrfectstorm confirm that MAXes have a melee attack in todays live stream?

I saw em swing several times. One tried to melee a freshly spawned (and locked and loaded) MAX, which didn't end well (flamethrower)

[Hamma]

Not worried about the MAX at all, we saw a alpha client with much balancing still required.

[Stew]

i saw some MAX getting OWn by heavy and ligth assault so i think they are pretty easy to kill if they are not 3 or 4 in a corridor !

I just hope the headshot multiplier will work well especially with MAX so accurate people will take down MAX like flys with OFF spray !

[2coolforu]

Not worried about the MAX at all, we saw a alpha client with much balancing still required.

Isn't that what the discussion is for though? We point out the stuff that seemed a little bit 'eurgh' and tag it for balance. The whole 'it's alpha so its fine' thing doesn't compute for me, if it's alpha then balance issues should be tagged for reference in the beta.

[SKYeXile]

Maxes dying, looked good to me.

[Stew]

Maxes dying, looked good to me.

Same here ! i tough they where going to be more OP at least ive seen 1 vs 1 MAx vs Assault and the assault wins Good enough yet but the BEtA will tell us more specifics ;)


Iam pretty sure some whiners will claim MAX is OP and others will claim MAX is underpower and they die to fast etc..

always contradiction lol

[Purple]

The MAX is a newer edition to regular olaytesting and will get plenty of scrutiny before launch.

Does that mean maxes wont be able to drive lightnings? please say yes!

[Neurotoxin]

MAX units are fine. As a MAX, I felt tough, I was able to take on any infantry and other MAX units pretty well. As an infantry going up against a MAX, I understood that grenades and headshots are my only chance of survival, and they work quite well.

[Dairian]

To heck with that. It does not need to be the only unit in the game incapable of effecting self repairs. It was like that in PS1 as well, and was just as ridiculous.

Your saying it was ridiculous that your couldn't repair yourself in PS1 in a Max? I remember one of the few times I actually used a max unit. I switched to NC and got a Scatter Max and I had close to a 50/1 K/D in a tower fight. And I knew many others that could do the same. If you knew how to use the shield right and were a good shot. They were insane!

As of now that they have no turn speed decrease and can do a 360 in a blink of an eye like a trooper they will be unstoppable killers in the right hands. But I am sure they will fix everything in BETA.

[Bags]

Why can the class that can get on roofs have the ammo pack? That's stupid.

Give it to the engineer or HA.

[TerminatorUK]

To heck with that. It does not need to be the only unit in the game incapable of effecting self repairs. It was like that in PS1 as well, and was just as ridiculous.

I agree with this as well providing it is balanced (i.e. you haven't taken damage for 'x' amount of time before the regen kicks in).

Due to the faster pace of PS2, I think the "random passer-by" type of repairs from an engineer (especially as repairs are limited from a single player class now) if you are not in an organised squad / outfit will be very much reduced which would be unfair against the shield regen of all other classes.

One of the most annoying elements of being a MAX user in PS1 was the fear of getting your armour slowly eaten away over time and being at the mercy of those with a BANK around you to be able to fix you up - being effective whilst playing solo as a MAX was pretty difficult if you were away from your base without medical terminals available.

This would often lead to either reckless charges (where you didn't care about getting patched up) or cowardly tactics / hiding behind a corner to not get your armour damaged / become useless and have to spam V-N-R to get repairs (which generally wasn't fun for all involved).

Even at the expense of some durability, the ability to have a slow regen over time make operating a MAX a lot less frustrating overall.

The classic tradeoffs of now being able to capture anything, 5-minute timer or drive vehicles etc... coupled with new threats (e.g. sniper head shots), lower TTKs etc.. should ensure everything is kept balanced.

[ringring]

MAX's seemed fine to me, the only time they ever dropped was when they were being engaged by multiple enemies and and another MAX. In all the battles they appeared very tough, I mean in the kill-cam a Fission missle did 25% damage to one, that's a hell of a lot of hitpoints.

If anything they seemed rather overpowered, as the game went along the number of MAX units went up and up. They can turn just as fast as normal infantry which I think should be changed, they run as fast as a sprinting normal troops and can drop out of sprint in about half a second.

Indoors they were tearing through normal troops, infact I don't really see any normal infantry having a use indoors if MAX's are as powerful as shown. They didn't really seem to have a countermeasure other than getting Lib'd outside or getting taken on by 4-5 normal infantry/other MAX's.

But it is alpha and all, I think they just have too much maneuverability, too much damage and too much health. They should either be tough and low damage or moderate damage and moderate HP. At the moment they seem to have the best weapons, the best health and don't really pay for it all that much in maneuverability.

I agree with all of this. I am not worried at all even though I didn't see 1 max use a special ability (which to be fair is understandable as the people we saw playing were walk-up to the booth types and not Devs who had playtested prior to this).

[Redshift]

it looked about right to me, a dual AI MAX at a sensible range was eating people, an AV MAX or a MAX in a bad position was getting picked apart.

[Coreldan]

Not really worried. Gotta remember a few things.

1) Capability for the dual loadout. I didnt see the stream, but a single scatter cannon seemed to kill lights pretty quick. Let alone two of them... That said, it seemed like you can't fire both weapons at the same time?

2) Everybody has MAX available from the second they log in in comparison to requiring a cert in PS1

3) Alpha

4) I still didnt see the stream, but in the footage I did see, MAX seemed even fairly durable everything considered.

I'm sad though that NC got once again pigeonholed into shotguns. So many games just implement them so badly and tbh Planetside 2 didn't seem much better in this case. Lets hope we at least get a viable HA in addition to yet another shotgun (Jackhammer, I suppose)

[Anderz]

Seen lots of footage from E3 of MAX units getting into tanks like the Vanguard.

That's not right, right? They're not meant to be able to do that?

[raidyr]

They keep saying they are "considering" not letting MAX suits use vehicles. I'm hoping that means "beyond beta" because it would be horrible to blow up a tank and just before it dies an AV max gets out and rails your tank.

[Anderz]

They keep saying they are "considering" not letting MAX suits use vehicles. I'm hoping that means "beyond beta" because it would be horrible to blow up a tank and just before it dies an AV max gets out and rails your tank.

I agree. In fact, I'm pretty sure Higby talked about the very same scenario being the reason MAX's won't be allowed in tanks.

I think, judging from E3 where every second player is in a MAX, the team are going to have to make them a less enticing option. Don't let them jump in tanks, and decrease their reticule turn speed.

[chanic]

I'm not too concerned about MAX durability. An important thing to consider is that in the E3 demo not many people are playing engineer, and even if they are they may not have any idea how to repair.

In those instances where a player got lucky and killed 3 MAXes in a row, they were usually taking the MAXes by surprise, and the MAXs were probably not anywhere near full health. Any time a player turned a corner and found themselves face-to-face with a MAX, they never stood a chance.

[Zekeen]

Anyone notice how the MAX units kinda lunge forward, preventing headshots from behind. If you let someone come up to your face and plug 2+ clips in at close range, without being able to kill them with the massive MAX arsenal... you deserve to die.

[Bobby Shaftoe]

Not really worried. Gotta remember a few things.

2) Everybody has MAX available from the second they log in in comparison to requiring a cert in PS1


I'm not sure about your logical leap there... considering in PS1 people said there were too many MAXs, especially after all the bundles/increase BRs in the game. That particular situation occured due to mid/late game-life developments, this now 'in-game' right from the start.

This in combination with split weapons and engies with ranged repair whilst moving doesn't bode well for there being much variety in indoor/short range infantry combat.

Inb4 the usual 'It's still alpha/beta, they'll balance/tweak it!' catechism that gets flung about whenever someone brings up valid concerns, without actually offering any suggestions as to how it would be 'balanced'.

1.) Everyone has them (Everyone is cool with BR40 for some reason); doubtful getting changed.
2.) Split weapons, AV + AI, lets you deal with any prime threat in a short range/indoor environment; doubtful this would change since every faction is now dual weapon equipped.
3.) Range repairs whilst moving, Engies; Would appear to be an integral 'facet' of the 'faster' gameplay methods they want to promote for PS2. Different rep rate multiplier for MAXs compared to other equipment possible?

So what you're stuck with is essentially 'balancing' MAXs through a specific ability of another class, before you even take into account the 'perks/bonuses' from certs within each of the two class trees and before you even go into cross Empire balance.

Gonna be fun seeing Lasher 2.0 playing out across multiple weapons/equipment combinations.

[Coreldan]

I'm not sure about your logical leap there... considering in PS1 people said there were too many MAXs, especially after all the bundles/increase BRs in the game. That particular situation occured due to mid/late game-life developments, this now 'in-game' right from the start.

This in combination with split weapons and engies with ranged repair whilst moving doesn't bode well for there being much variety in indoor/short range infantry combat.

Inb4 the usual 'It's still alpha/beta, they'll balance/tweak it!' catechism that gets flung about whenever someone brings up valid concerns, without actually offering any suggestions as to how it would be 'balanced'.

1.) Everyone has them (Everyone is cool with BR40 for some reason); doubtful getting changed.
2.) Split weapons, AV + AI, lets you deal with any prime threat in a short range/indoor environment; doubtful this would change since every faction is now dual weapon equipped.
3.) Range repairs whilst moving, Engies; Would appear to be an integral 'facet' of the 'faster' gameplay methods they want to promote for PS2. Different rep rate multiplier for MAXs compared to other equipment possible?

So what you're stuck with is essentially 'balancing' MAXs through a specific ability of another class, before you even take into account the 'perks/bonuses' from certs within each of the two class trees and before you even go into cross Empire balance.

Gonna be fun seeing Lasher 2.0 playing out across multiple weapons/equipment combinations.

Well, that is a good point, I didn't quite think it from the "after 9 years from launch" kinda ending, more like pre-BR increase kinda thing. If there were too many MAXs then, there will certainly be that now when nobody will have to even put 1 cert point into the thing, so the logical leap was trying to be that there is likely to be more of them on the field at least earlier on than last time, so it wouldn't hurt for them to be a bit weaker too.

Also, I'd sorta suppose that you are gonna need a dual-setup to be as effective in one role in comparison to PS. TTKs naturally are different, but I doubt you are suddenly a really high threat for two things if you have for example AI and AA. Sure, you can still kill both (at least infantry it seems), but you are gonna be a lot more effective by taking the same setup on both hands. At least that's very much how it should be balanced. Either you do two things in a mediocre fashion or one thing really good.

Not necessarily related to this thread, but did anyone catch how do you reload the MAX weapons? I mean, you have two weapons that can be shot individually, how do you reload them? I suppose it's not just pressing "R", cos then it would reload both and we saw weapons being reloaded individually.

[Malorn]

Not worried about MAX. Seemed OK. They were easy targets, not highly maneuverable, unable to capture on their own. They were deadly and could take hits, but that's what I expect them to do - otherwise they have no purpose.

A MAX is supposed to be a solid meatshield and be good at killing what it specializes in killing. Looks about right to me.

[Redshift]

This in combination with split weapons and engies with ranged repair whilst moving doesn't bode well for there being much variety in indoor/short range infantry combat.

Higby said they're killable with small arms fire from light assault if played well, and from what we saw in the demo it seems viable. I imagine a HA with the AV load out will destroy them instantly.

I'm not sure they'll be as popular as people think, they still have logistical issues and they don't have real shield regen.

[SKYeXile]

Higby said they're killable with small arms fire from light assault if played well, and from what we saw in the demo it seems viable. I imagine a HA with the AV load out will destroy them instantly.

I'm not sure they'll be as popular as people think, they still have logistical issues and they don't have real shield regen.

could be possible that the heavy weapons destroy them too, we're yet to see them in action.

but yea the HA rockets were taking 50% HP off the maxes. id be considering rolling around with a dumbfire one for the purpose of taking them out at reasonably close range while been out of los to them or hopefully a thumper!

[cryosin]

I would agree that the maxes feel a bit weaker than the MAXes in PS1. But apparently it keeps switching from "MAXES are OP" to "MAXes drop like flies".

I think if they balance the cost vs the power it should balance out.

In planetside 1 practically everyone had a deci so MAXes where somewhat easier to kill if you ask me.

It seems like headshots are a key to killing a MAX without AV weapons.

[Knightwyvern]

I would agree that the maxes feel a bit weaker than the MAXes in PS1. But apparently it keeps switching from "MAXES are OP" to "MAXes drop like flies".

I think if they balance the cost vs the power it should balance out.

In planetside 1 practically everyone had a deci so MAXes where somewhat easier to kill if you ask me.

It seems like headshots are a key to killing a MAX without AV weapons.

This all seems to be quite true so far, and I think the answer to the "OP or drop like flies" bit is that they really are situational. That's what they're going for, no?

[Nasher]

They do seem a bit weak from what I've seen. In PS1 you pretty much needed AV weapons/ammo to kill a max. Snipers would do almost nothing to them because they were such an easy target. In PS2 we saw snipers taking them out with a handful of shots which is just silly.

I'm hoping there will be certs to nullify sniper weapons etc and increase armour at the cost of agility.

[DOUBLEXBAUGH]

They do seem a bit weak from what I've seen. In PS1 you pretty much needed AV weapons/ammo to kill a max. Snipers would do almost nothing to them because they were such an easy target. In PS2 we saw snipers taking them out with a handful of shots which is just silly.

Took 15 Bolt Driver shots to kill a MAX in PS1, yes some were dumb enough to stand there and die to it.