Lib from recent stream....

[Timealude]

Ok, I hope im not the only one to say this....but did you see you that freakin gun on the lib...OMG soooo much awesomeness cant take it.....
anyways.....
How do you feel about that gun now that we have seen it in action?

[Zulthus]

I kind of feel that such a powerful gun should have a bit more of a restricted firing arc. Other than that it looks great.

[Gogita]

To be honest, it feels slightly OP in its current build. Having high armor and high firepower, in combination with it being in the air is slightly overwhelming :P But ah well, these are just numbers that can be changed in the beta.

[DarkSkyes]

Lib looks awesome. I cannot wait to gun one of those things, should add a thermal imaging also!

Game looks so nice, really really pleased.

[Xaine]

Looks great.

I don't think its too OP, once people learn to focus them down (they're big and slow) they'll be fine.

[captainkapautz]

Gun is fine.

Lib flying over a base almost completely unmolested, even hover in place quite a while, so it can pound anything that moves into tiny red bits isn't a balance problem, that's a players being dumb problem.

[SpcFarlen]

I dont want to make a call yet. People were flying terribly and not too many people were looking to the skies or going AA.

[Eyeklops]

Ok, I hope im not the only one to say this....but did you see you that freakin gun on the lib...OMG soooo much awesomeness cant take it.....
anyways.....
How do you feel about that gun now that we have seen it in action?

I think I will be really watching the skies for the Liberator of death. That thing looked mean. Better cost allot.

[Jennyboo]

I must say it is a thing for beauty :brow: also something to be feared! sexy and deadly !!!

[IMMentat]

At this rate i may end up a liberator, magrider and LA/engy user. That lib looked megafun.

[Graywolves]

I thought it was really awesome, especially seeing the bombardment from the ground.


I don't think it is OP at all. One thing to keep in mind is that the Lib was circling over the base almost smack dab in the middle. Something that will probably not be possible in a 2-way or when the base has had entrenched defenders.

[atone]

would have loved to see more of the pilot view. but the cannon was great. a well organized team flying one of those can do some real damage.

[Haro]

It's too early to judge balance, this was a demo pushed out for E3, with a bunch of amateurs playing. I guarantee in normal play, Libs won't have the luxury of just hanging around like that, even with high armor. Once people learn to actually fly fighters and more AA vehicles come in (most of the AA came from Maxes, from what I saw, and some missiles; saw very few manning the tank turrets, even fewer fully manning tanks) then gunships will have a lot more to worry about.

[Top Sgt]

gun damage is awesome and not an issue.

i just wish as we discussed on this board before. it behaved more like a spooky gunship.. and the main gun fired to the left of the craft only.. So the pilot had to side strafe the left to give the gunner a good arc shot etc.. just like you do with spooky's and spectre's in real life.

just would balance thing out even more and require a bit of skill.

[NewSith]

I'm in love with the lib, so gonna rape people with it.

As for balance - did you see how fast it went down after it got, you know, just, FIRED AT?

[Knightwyvern]

Gun is fine.

Lib flying over a base almost completely unmolested, even hover in place quite a while, so it can pound anything that moves into tiny red bits isn't a balance problem, that's a players being dumb problem.

This is it, basically. Watching the stream, almost no one even pulled out their missile launcher, let alone used it on a proper target.

Also guys, remember; there will be vehicle timers, as well as resource costs.

For me, if I'm running around and see a liberator, sure I'm thinking "oh crap!" But I'm also thinking "Ohhh, nice juicy target!"

One thing I am not loving however is the "new" modern EXP style of say 150xp per kill, maybe +25 or +50 for killing a vehicle etc. I really loved the PS1 style EXP system that rewarded you more for taking down players with long up timers and more kills. Also, nothing beats getting that rare but oh so satisfying 5000xp for nailing that pesky liberator with your Phoenix.

[Sirisian]

Looked amazing. Can't wait to fly it. Damage seemed sensible for a secondary gunner spot.

[Knightwyvern]

thelol.

Wait until 10 fully buffed and specialized Liberators with bombers and tailgunners fly 100m above you at full speed with that gun. Keep in mind that Liberators are much faster now, that this gun is impossible to miss with (large AOE, fast projectile), can be spammed, and kills infantry in 1 shot.

If you think airchav outfits with PS1 Reavers were bad, wait til they are all in PS2 Liberators with XP/resource boosts. I'll be fine with this. Will you?


Remember: This is coming from someone who never once complained about anything being overpowered in PS1.

Combined arms? How about 30 AA maxes or 30 AA Aircraft hunting those libs down? plus a hundred heavy assault with lock on missile launchers, base flak cannons, etc.

It's all about the scale. Sure, 10 of these could ruin an infantry column's day. An equal number of AA equipped MBT could probably knock them out of the sky. That's a good thing.

[Haro]

thelol.

Wait until 10 fully buffed and specialized Liberators with bombers and tailgunners fly 100m above you at full speed with that gun. Keep in mind that Liberators are much faster now, that this gun is impossible to miss with (large AOE, fast projectile), can be spammed, and kills infantry in 1 shot.

If you think airchav outfits with PS1 Reavers were bad, wait til they are all in PS2 Liberators with XP/resource boosts. I'll be fine with this. Will you?


Remember: This is coming from someone who never once complained about anything being overpowered in PS1.

If you're fine with it, why wouldn't I be? Why bring up this at all then?

But in all seriousness, for your 10 libs, I'll either a) get 30 reavers, b) get 30 lightnings or AA maxes, or c) the most effective way to beat any air craft... fight inside.

[Knightwyvern]

Oh, sorry. Given the posting history of some of the people in this thread, I was under the impression that people valued 1v1 balance. I guess I was wrong. Thanks for your support.

This is the wrong game for purely 1vs1 balance. How many infantry do you think it should take to down a fully manned liberator?

[Figment]

I dont want to make a call yet. People were flying terribly and not too many people were looking to the skies or going AA.

They didn't really get much of a chance to go AA though: too many MAXes, infantry and tanks running about, besides, the pilots were rather crappy so far and suiciding more than doing anything dangerous (that will change in time obviously).



I noticed next to no wall defense gameplay either. The walls seem rather irrelevant right now what with bases being so open they can basically be ignored.

[Knightwyvern]

I noticed next to no wall defense gameplay either. The walls seem rather irrelevant right now what with bases being so open they can basically be ignored.

I noticed that too; though I think the walls will be more important when there is a more obvious one sided defense going on; where one empire has control at the beginning and has time to prep before an attack.

[NewSith]

I noticed next to no wall defense gameplay either. The walls seem rather irrelevant right now what with bases being so open they can basically be ignored.

Now that's one valid concern. I didn't think about it myself, but I do agree, though I think such a discussion is for another thread/topic.

[Haro]

They didn't really get much of a chance to go AA though: too many MAXes, infantry and tanks running about, besides, the pilots were rather crappy so far and suiciding more than doing anything dangerous (that will change in time obviously).



I noticed next to no wall defense gameplay either. The walls seem rather irrelevant right now what with bases being so open they can basically be ignored.

I also think it had to do with how spawns were set up. Every empire had an uncappable spawn point (the forward assembling areas or whatever they were called) that churned out a steady stream of replacements, and no one empire could really mop up after capturing the base because reinforcements were always nearby.

I think once we see a more conventional offense/defense match up, and more recognizable pushes and lulls from longer travel times rather than a constant stream of respawns, the walls will be more noticeable. We're getting off-topic here, but I think it'd be a good subject for another post.

[Timealude]

I also think it had to do with how spawns were set up. Every empire had an uncappable spawn point (the forward assembling areas or whatever they were called) that churned out a steady stream of replacements, and no one empire could really mop up after capturing the base because reinforcements were always nearby.

I think once we see a more conventional offense/defense match up, and more recognizable pushes and lulls from longer travel times rather than a constant stream of respawns, the walls will be more noticeable. We're getting off-topic here, but I think it'd be a good subject for another post.

this. Also we we havent even seen the lightning with the skyguard turrent on it yet, so for all we know that could hammer away hard at the lib. You also cant nerf something just because people are more organized then you, Like TB said in the video stream those guys looked experienced with this game...so they could be former vets and know how to handle that air craft. Dispite the fact there being alot of "not so good players," There were quite a few good ones and showed us how this game might play out from a person with more experience towards this game play.

[Xyntech]

Damn it, must have been later in the stream. I missed it. I hope we see some tomorrow or that they post the youtube of the stream soon.

[maradine]

The designer in me wants to scream "OWERPOWERED!!1" and the greedy sunnabitch in me is absolutely smitten. Cancel all my meetings, Janet.

[Xyntech]

Basically the Liberator has a tailgun with about 150 degrees freedom of movement in both dimensions. It shoots really fast bombs (seemed almost hitscan) with ROF of ~2/s that cause AOE explosions of about 10m in diameter, which kills infantry instantly and MAX's in 2 shots.

ALL OF MY MONEY

I mean...

They'll probably have to balance that out...

[maradine]

They'll probably have to balance that out...

I agree. Up the damage.

[T MAN]

Did anyone else think the explosions from the lib were a bit excessive? Now imagine 10 more libs :eek:

[Rendar]

I dont think the Liberator is going to be nearly as OP as people are starting to be afraid they are.

Couple of points.

1. The lib was just hovering over the base. No one noticed, no one was shooting at it. It was able to just sit there and fire away. In a real combat scenario, i only see the lib getting off 1 shot per "area" as it will need to be moving around, not hovering.

2. The majority of those kills were against Maxes. There was a few times in that video you saw the shot hit right between a MAX and normal infantry, but only the Max died. So pretty sure he was using some kind of Anti-V round. Which just as we saw on the MAX's from the stream, didnt do much against Infantry.

3. Once someone finally noticed the lib and started shooting at it, it went from full hp to near death in seconds.

4. As noticed by a few others when looking at all weapons (MAX, tanks, rockets, etc). It seems the "effect" of smoke and explosion is about twice the size of the actual "damage zone".

But all in all. Too early to tell. Really hard to cry about balance from a 2nd hand stream of an alpha version being played by people with no practice or skill in the game.