"Healing beams" for the Medic/Engi

[Death2All]

First of all, I know this is an early alpha build and nothing is finalized. Just want to get that out of the way before someone instantly dismisses they entire thread based off of that rationale alone.


With that said, what did you guys think of healing beam that was being used during one segment of the live stream? Unfortunately there isn't a VOD up anywhere so I can't show the exact spot where it was, only hope that someone else caught it as well.


Personally, I find healing beams to be lame. Really lame. I'm all for speeding up the gameplay, but I think healing beams just over simplify it to the point that it's boring. Also, healing beams sort of enforce that whole "pocket medic" mentality that you see in games that incorporate them. I don't really feel they have a place in the game.

I'd like to see a more meaningful healing system where it feels like you're actually healing the guy in some shape or form, not just pointing a beam at them and watching their life bar go up gradually. I'm not sure exactly how to capture that. In PS1 you had to stand still if you wanted to be healed/repaired which I feel did a good job at enforcing that elusive teamwork aspect that everyone loves (not sarcasm). You had to actually sit still like a good patient and cooperate with the medic/engy that was repairing you. Not exactly that meaningful, but I'd like to see some spiritual counterpart to that over the boring healing beams of doom.

Again, we have no idea how exactly they work, some further clarification would be nice, but I don't really expect to get any.

[Zulthus]

Well, I'm not really for/against it, but I can sure say I prefer that to throwing down a medic box and being done with it.

[Graywolves]

The only beam I saw was for the engineer being used on a MAX and it looked kind of odd to me.


Will be interesting to see how some of it ends up looking.


edit:
In PS1 I liked going up against the injured under cover with the med app and healing them up. I think doing things beyond a certain range will kill the sense of urgency. I don't mind if it's at most a couple meters and the beam kind of makes sense and isn't just glowing goodness or a scan animation.

[Aurmanite]

It looked like the med applicator had a little range on it. Still looks like it's a down time/out of combat tool, especially with the TTK as low as it is.

[SpcFarlen]

At first i didnt like the idea. But for medic i actually really like the idea. By not throwing down a medpack a person cant just throw it down and get back to shooting. They have to take themselves out of the fight to heal someone. So it brings the risk reward scenario up. Is the risk of me not being able to shoot worth it now?

It makes healing a much more active role rather than a passive role. You can look at Bf3 where they throw down a pack and go straight to shooting. Besides that brief second animation, their healing didnt hinder their offensive capability it actually enhanced it.

So i see it as a good thing.

[Aurmanite]

At first i didnt like the idea. But for medic i actually really like the idea. By not throwing down a medpack a person cant just throw it down and get back to shooting. They have to take themselves out of the fight to heal someone. So it brings the risk reward scenario up. Is the risk of me not being able to shoot worth it now?

It makes healing a much more active role rather than a passive role. You can look at Bf3 where they throw down a pack and go straight to shooting. Besides that brief second animation, their healing didnt hinder their offensive capability it actually enhanced it.

So i see it as a good thing.

Great points.

[NewSith]

When did you notice a healbeam there? That was an engi beam, not Medic beam.

What bothers me more is the fact that MAXes actually regenerate armor by themselves. very slowly but they actually do.

EDIT: On a sidenote - I'm against healing* beams, GA showed what a game can turn into when you give medics a healgun that's rather effective, it becomes too centered around them and very TFish

[Gelnika]

There's really two options that I see for medics, the TF2 style healing gun or the BF style health packs thrown on the ground. I'm personally more a fan of the healing gun because there is more interaction involved in the healing process rather than simply standing on a box some guy threw down, perhaps not even recently. As a medic, I'd find it much more engaging to actually heal someone directly, and as someone seeking a heal, as nice as it would be to stumble upon a health box someone left there 10 minutes ago, it seems impersonal and doesn't lend a whole lot to the aura of teamwork.

TLDR; I like the heal beam.

[Knightwyvern]

It kind of makes sense lore wise honestly, what with the nanites and all. Other than that, I'lm ok with it as long as they are well balanced as far as their range, rate of heal etc is concerned.

[JHendy]

This is the kind of thing I think should only work on MAXs and vehicles. For all we know that might be the case.

[NewSith]

There's really two options that I see for medics, the TF2 style healing gun or the BF style health packs thrown on the ground. I'm personally more a fan of the healing gun because there is more interaction involved in the healing process rather than simply standing on a box some guy threw down, perhaps not even recently. As a medic, I'd find it much more engaging to actually heal someone directly, and as someone seeking a heal, as nice as it would be to stumble upon a health box someone left there 10 minutes ago, it seems impersonal and doesn't lend a whole lot to the aura of teamwork.

TLDR; I like the heal beam.

PSide had a med applicator: 10hps, 0m range, it worked fine.

If you add healing beams into PS, they'll turn the game into (see the link below), instead of good tactical moderately-paced shooter:

10vs10, 1 good medic and 9 trololos vs 10 people with several mid-skilled medics an actual working team setup.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFZbN3R4RTk



Healbeams is a no-go. Repairbeam I would understand, but not a healbeam.

[raidyr]

Having no details as to how exactly the beam works, only that it does seem to be a beam-style system, I much prefer it to the drop and forget "teamwork" instilled box throwing that is Battlefield.

[NewSith]

Having no details as to how exactly the beam works, only that it does seem to be a beam-style system, I much prefer it to the drop and forget "teamwork" instilled box throwing that is Battlefield.

PSide had a med applicator: 10hps, 0m range, it worked fine.

0m range as in you had to inject healing, not beam it.

[Badjuju]

I think some of you are confused with the poster's concern. He isn't comparing the healing beam to med packs like BF3 where, he is comparing them to the medical applicator in PS1. In PS1 you both had to be standing still and right up next too each other while the applicator slowly healed the injured person. I haven't seen a speed up version of this but it appears that PS2 may have a similar system but with more range and maybe the possibility of movement. The concern that it may bee too easy to heal now as before you had to get to the hurt person and get them healed up out of combat. Well have to wait till we actually play the beta though to really speculate on these types of things IMO.

[The Kush]

They looked awesome lol you guys try to put down everything I swear

[Sirisian]

PSide had a med applicator: 10hps, 0m range, it worked fine.

0m range as in you had to inject healing, not beam it.
I never liked the PS1 system. It didn't encourage battle medics. The beam doesn't either really. I'd prefer healing over time. So like a 0 meter syringe applicator you shoot into friendies that heals over time (and stops healing if they take damage). Much easier for someone that's just running with a squad.

Don't have to continuous heal someone and you don't have to stand in the same spot. A sane cooldown makes it a solid implementation.

[IMMentat]

How far do they go?

How fast do they heal?

Does their rate of healing/repairing accelerate depending on movement & other factors? (like taking damage mid-heal)

Is there a cooldown?

What are trade-offs for medic (and engineer) class?

Will they stack?

etc etc etc

Underlines are my edits.

I want triage support (out of combat) rather than heal-bot players, but it seems I probably won't get my wish there.
Here's hopeing that PS2 is not the new heavy/medic spamfest (boomers will help for indoor areas, wait a bit then splat goes the medic).

TTK is pretty fast for most targets so unless the healghuns are really ramped up then massed/focussed fire should kill any meatshield quickly enough leaveing a weaponless medic as the second line of attack (bullet magnet).

[raidyr]

PSide had a med applicator: 10hps, 0m range, it worked fine.

0m range as in you had to inject healing, not beam it.

Yes thank you I played Planetside 1 thank you for the information.

[GreatMazinkaise]

Italics are my edits.

I want triage support (out of combat) rather than heal-bot players, but it seems I probably won't get my wish there.
Here's hopeing that PS2 is not the new heavy/medic spamfest (boomers will help for indoor areas, wait a bit then splat goes the medic).

TTK is pretty high for most targetse so unless the healghuns are really ramped up then massed/focussed fire should kill any meatshield quickly enough leaveing a weaponless medic as the second line of attack (bullet magnet).

I hate to nitpick, but this comes up so often on this forum.

High Time To Kill == Long Time To Kill
Low Time To Kill == Short Time To Kill
Time To Kill == The length of time it takes to kill someone

I know, it's an easy thing to mess up on, but it's this forum's equivalent of Rouge or Turrent.

Your point is valid regardless... don't think that pocket healers will work for this game.

[NewSith]

TTK is pretty high for most targetse so unless the healghuns are really ramped up then massed/focussed fire should kill any meatshield quickly enough leaveing a weaponless medic as the second line of attack (bullet magnet).

watch the video I posted and please take a note of when I die in that video, despite being the ONLY medic. If healbeams stack, than however nerfed they be, they will still focus the game around medics.


MOST IMPORTANTLY - heal beams and HoT darts render long-range combat useless, and THAT is my main argument against them. I want PS to be a tactical shooter, not a twitch shooter.


^^^Sirs, you take a note of that too, please^^^

[Cosmical]

Dont forget man that shields regenerate aswell, so a medic is basically doing half the job. And staying alive and standing still dont go hand in hand with modern day shooters, and PS2 seems to be as move heavy as any.

Also i think statistically medic is the least desirable class to play, yes i enjoy playing it aswell. But stats dont lie, and anything to keep a medic in the fray and making them feel part of the combat is integral. Rather than having them sitting in a corner with band aids wondering whats happening on the front, like in PS1.

I know what youre saying tho, a beam is a little cheaty. Most game changing healing mechanic in an FPS is probably FARCRY2, but that was to enhance the feeling of a survivalist badass rambo type figure.

Far Cry 2 Health System - YouTube

Best idea i can think of is maybe to do a revive you have to pop a medic scan mode and directly heal the area that killed them. But thats shit. haha

[SGTalon]

They called it a glue gun in PS1. Not sure why you guys are worried.

Standard Planetside fare.

[IMMentat]

Soz bout that posts wording its late and I used the wrong word :p
Edited the post.

I don't object to a heal/rep beam mobile and ranged heals have benefits in a game where staying still gets you ambushed (unless it goes multi-target).

I object to players running around mid-combat zapping friendlies with miracle-beams instead of helping them supress and flank the enemy. It inspires blob-formation-combat, super heavy vanguard/shock/siegebreaker troops, then flanking/support heavies then medics then protectors of medics then the poor SoB's that are not tanky enough to be worth wasting valuable #miracle beam# time on.

[CuddlyChud]

I think it gives medics a more active combat role. In PS1 everyone was a rifleman first because you couldn't do support actions under fire. Therefore medics were only useful after a fight was over, they had no bearing on the fight itself.

[blazie]

I loved being a medic in PS, but it was just a pain trying to get people standing completely still. Or people tapping out too quickly when they died.
If it has a short range beam I'd be happy with that, or if its the healing tool I'd be happy with that too so long as it didn't deactivate if someone moved a tiny bit.

[WorldOfForms]

The tether beam mechanic is boring gameplay, especially for the medic. I've done it and it puts me to sleep.

However, Global Agenda had great other ideas for healing, like healing grenades, a heal gun that you have to shoot like a pistol, healing waves (PS could have a healing shotgun) etc.

There are not just 2 options here. Tons of ways for medics to heal that could be interesting, require skill, and be balanced.

[SniperSteve]

Healing beams make more sense in terms of the lore than medic 'boxes'.

The effect on the beams looked incomplete, IMO.

[Drakkonan]

Requiring people to stand still will discourage people from playing the class. It's extremely frustrating to try and heal someone who's oblivious to the fact that they're about to die, and won't stand still. It'd be fine, as it was in PS1, if there was no point system, but I assume they're going to award points for healing (ala BF3) in this iteration. You could argue that it's the fault of the idiot player, and that they deserve to die, but that shouldn't prevent the medic from getting points if they decide to go the extra mile and tag along behind to heal.

[GoldDragon]

I think it gives medics a more active combat role. In PS1 everyone was a rifleman first because you couldn't do support actions under fire. Therefore medics were only useful after a fight was over, they had no bearing on the fight itself.

I loved being a medic in PS, but it was just a pain trying to get people standing completely still. Or people tapping out too quickly when they died.
If it has a short range beam I'd be happy with that, or if its the healing tool I'd be happy with that too so long as it didn't deactivate if someone moved a tiny bit.

On the note of these comments - It all boils down to how players want to play and how outfits coordinate. For example, my crew had a dedicated medic that generally sat near the back of our formation and happily dropped her rifle to heal/repair us so we could hold formation. Also, there are time where we would have to break formation and fall back to a safe point **Near but not out of the fighting** in order to get on our feet again. This method of combat works well for US and the medic involved who much preferred healing to fighting.

All that said, there is no reason the medic can't have both.

The tether beam mechanic is boring gameplay, especially for the medic. I've done it and it puts me to sleep.

However, Global Agenda had great other ideas for healing, like healing grenades, a heal gun that you have to shoot like a pistol, healing waves (PS could have a healing shotgun) etc.

There are not just 2 options here. Tons of ways for medics to heal that could be interesting, require skill, and be balanced.

This is true, but a very, very short range beam might be more viable for combat medics in PS2 than the Med App from PS1. Again, that doesn't mean we can't have both. The "beam" or similar tool might be better for on-the-go heals but the stationary med app might heal greater amounts. So say you're with you're squad rushing a position, having a medic with the beam keeping you all fairly well off could be a good thing. But say you get sniped or take heavy damage and are in cover, while the beam (Healing over Time) works here, a med app that might deal out a massive heal could be better. This also would work for a medic holding position too. As troops come by, pop them with a quick heal and let them get back to the fight instead of chasing after them.

I know this is an FPS, but that doesn't mean a stationary medic can't work. I know a few older players that don't have the twitch of high school kids, college students, and younger adults. If PlanetSide 2 goes to extreme either way they'll knock out potential players.

One of the best things about PlanetSide was that players who weren't the best at combat and fast-paced game play still had something to do. While many might not consider that a high point, it did set the game apart. Even though round 2 is going to be much faster paced is it really worth losing some good friends and players?

Just my thoughts, but not every good player has to have good twitch skills. I'd like to see that again.

[T MAN]

I think i saw at one point a medic heal of a aura effect like circles around people and for the engineer repair was the beam.

If there is a heal beam then i dont like either, that would be like tf2 medics healing the heavys only here it would be the new MAX crash with couple medics attached.

Speaking of medics, i did like the BRINK way of reviving people. you would just throw them a device to revive themself if they wanted to or not.

[Xyntech]

Not a fan of healing beams, but this one looked surprisingly inoffensive compared to TF2 or Firefall. It didn't seem to me that it was locked on either.

I just hope it doesn't heal players very much while they are actively taking damage. Maybe a 1 second delay before it starts healing someone after they took damage.

One thing is for sure, the point blank healing of PS1 medics was a bit stifling. I don't mind the idea of a ranged healing beam, as long as it can't be used in the TF2 medic buddy style, with Heavy Assault or MAXes running around with a medic beam constantly up their ass.

Like I said, it didn't look that bad to me, but I'm more concerned with the gameplay ramifications. As long as it doesn't play shitty, I could be okay with it.

[SKYeXile]

KILL THEM, KILL THEM WITH FIRE!!!!!

[Rumblepit]

First of all, I know this is an early alpha build and nothing is finalized. Just want to get that out of the way before someone instantly dismisses they entire thread based off of that rationale alone.


With that said, what did you guys think of healing beam that was being used during one segment of the live stream? Unfortunately there isn't a VOD up anywhere so I can't show the exact spot where it was, only hope that someone else caught it as well.


Personally, I find healing beams to be lame. Really lame. I'm all for speeding up the gameplay, but I think healing beams just over simplify it to the point that it's boring. Also, healing beams sort of enforce that whole "pocket medic" mentality that you see in games that incorporate them. I don't really feel they have a place in the game.

I'd like to see a more meaningful healing system where it feels like you're actually healing the guy in some shape or form, not just pointing a beam at them and watching their life bar go up gradually. I'm not sure exactly how to capture that. In PS1 you had to stand still if you wanted to be healed/repaired which I feel did a good job at enforcing that elusive teamwork aspect that everyone loves (not sarcasm). You had to actually sit still like a good patient and cooperate with the medic/engy that was repairing you. Not exactly that meaningful, but I'd like to see some spiritual counterpart to that over the boring healing beams of doom.

Again, we have no idea how exactly they work, some further clarification would be nice, but I don't really expect to get any.

over simplify it to the point that it's boring???? really???? you know he is aiming that beam right? this dose take skill and when done right a pocket medic that has good aim can give A heavy assault a big advantage, racking up assist and exp.

[Runlikethewind]

I'm fine with a heal beam. My experience was that the PS1 system worked well in an organized squad but not so much if you where just running around randomly trying to heal or revive, players needed to know you were there. I could see a system in which the heal beam worked most quickly at point blank not moving and then less effectively when you began to add distance and movement. Medics could then cert to increase the distance they could heal at the cost of something else. And as has been said already, the beam fits with the lore and the PS1 mechanics so its legit in my eyes.

[raidyr]

over simplify it to the point that it's boring???? really???? you know he is aiming that beam right? this dose take skill and when done right a pocket medic that has good aim can give A heavy assault a big advantage, racking up assist and exp.

I'd really rather not see the term "pocket medic" become a regular part of the Planetside lexicon.

[Stew]

Healing beam Lead to Exploits and Lame gameplay experience i think medic should only have healing ministation thats can be deploy or also a healing radius while activated they heal people around them or healing bubble shield things like that But NOT a healing beam thats can lead to Firefall like Medic + dreadnaught thing its really lame and OP Medic + MAX Will become this exact same lame thing team fortress like !

I will prefere planetside to tend more on Battlefield medic style than on FF , TF , GA type of games !

Medic to me is suposed to be the revive guys Not the healing minion for a MAX !

If theyre is a healing beam AS soon as the people get hit the healing process is stop and do not restard before 3 secondes !

[Crovus]

While I would prefer some other healing device for medics as long as its not a leash I'm ok with it.

[Red Beard]

As long as the subject has to hold still while being healed, I don't think it's a big deal frankly...maybe a slight delay before healing takes place. On the other side of things, if I see a medic following him around I'm just going to kill the medic first.

[GhettoPrince]

everything is done with nano robots anyway, who cares? It gives you a fun and easy way to play a medic, which is the important thing, and it gives everyone a visual cue that there is a medic , which is the other important thing.

I don't think people should have to hold still for it , either, it isn't surgery.

Seriously, playing a medic in planetside 1 was a HASSLE, you had to get people to stand totally still, you had to spam a giant red white and blue "HEY! DONT RESPAWN! MEDIC REVIVE!" kind of macro every 20 seconds...just so much bullshit.

[Death2All]

over simplify it to the point that it's boring???? really???? you know he is aiming that beam right? this dose take skill and when done right a pocket medic that has good aim can give A heavy assault a big advantage, racking up assist and exp.

In every game I've seen healing beams they've had a lock on mechanic where you simply put your crosshair over the friendly then click and then you're locked on until you let go. In TF2 there's even an option to keep the healing beam on until you click the mouse button again, thus making it very simple, thus making it boring.

I was expecting some dumb counter arguments, but "it takes skill" caught me off guard. Good work.

The impression I'm getting from most people is that they're neither for nor against healing beams, it all depends on how they're implemented, which I think I can agree with as well. So long as you can't heal a target while moving, or you can't heal them at a significant enough speed that it would impact game-play, I would be fine with it. Some people have also brought up that it could've been a possible certification with various trade offs such as reduced healing speed or what have you.


I just don't want the game to degenerate into MAXes being accompanied by pocket medics with their leashes wrapped around them as they wreak havoc. Yes, it promotes teamwork, but I don't think that kind of teamwork has a place in PS2.

[Furber]

It definitely beats requiring your target to stand still in order to heal them

[Brusi]

Making the heal-gun usable only when stationary (as in Planetside) really reinforces the downtime healing aspect as well. A medic gun that can point-blank single shot HoT would be a good way of doing it too.

I really don't want to see heal heal-beams. Only ranged healing/repairing should be very limited and in the form of thrown/deployed devices, accompanied with believable sci-fi fluff.

[RodenyC]

Guess I'm in the minority but I rather liked the way medics played in PS1.If a player didn't want to take the time to stay still ,then said player doesn't need to be healed. Healing beans just remind me of tf2 and how dumb down it is. That's because it's suppose to be a arcadey game. PS2 is not suppose to be a arcadey game. I'd rather have it PS1 style then dumbing it down to moving heal beans and dreaded med packs .

[Malorn]

I like the idea of tradeoffs and making healing an active thing as opposed to a passive them. Between shields and gradual healing you also have triage decisions.

Regardless of how the heal beam works out it seems obvious to me that thier intent is to make healing active. The heal beam gives you a bit more flexibility so you don't necessarily need to be standing right next to someone as well as making it obvious who is doing the healing. We don't know what sort of great combos there are, but in PS1 you did have people who would crounch behind MAX and use them as shields while keeping them repped up. A rep beam seems like that would be a plausible strategy for PS2 and allow the engineer to be more mobile and not necessarily directly in the line of fire.

Maybe it plays out well and maybe it doesn't, but I like the idea and the tradeoff associated with it. There are a lot of things which cyco mentioned that could be significant factors into how effective it pans out.

- range of the beam
- rate of healing
- whether movement affects the healing rate
- whether range affects healing rate (might reward you for being closer)
- what sort of customizations there are on the beam (maybe you can get a different medgun that heals AoE around you but shorter range and for less HPS - they have talked about healing grenades too).

There's lots of ways this could go. Dismissing hte idea outright seems silly to me. I"m much more interested in understanding their goals with the design and giving feedback on how well the design meets those goals. Hopefully they start sharing that information with us more candidly once we're under NDA in the beta.

[Coreldan]

Having a healing beam doesn't automatically mean yet that it can 1) be used in combat 2) used while moving 3) used while taking damage (either the "victim" or the medic).

I dont mind a fancy animation like a healing beam, but I'd sorta hope you can't do the TF2 kinda pocket medic shit.

[SKYeXile]

yea having healing beams puts a requirment on having them and if you do that squads are prettymuch gonna be half medic half whatever ifs the most effective at killing...and just roll around circle jerking heals. and if you dont do that...you're gonna get crushed.

obviously if its like global agenda/tf2/firefall...it could be different, then again...it could not be.

[Memeotis]

My post was moved. Scroll down. :P

[NewSith]

PEOPLE, are you really wanting to turn PS2 into close-quarters only game? SERIOUSLY. HOW ARE YOU SUPPOSED TO KILL PEOPLE FROM AFAR THAT CAN BOTH STRAFE AND BE HEALED??? It's really starting to make me lose my temper, I mean, people, you realise that the standing still mechanic was put in place to avoid stalemate situations at long range, don't you?

It's fun how it went all right for every idea offered here, but this shit is just going to break the game, and I'm saying this as a friggin' Medic vet, not a planetside vet.

*this shit - is a term used to describe a possibility of high-rate mobile healing.


AYE, and stop, idd, figuring out 1on1 balance. Steel argument saying "it can have a very slow healrate and very close range" is still invalid. Why? Because there's approx 666 people on each side and everyone can be a medic, 665 medics can heal 1 max and each other. Tell me about the "healrate" in this situation.
Making the effects not stack will be an even bigger idiocy, for multiple medics will only fulfill the role of one, the class will be rendered useless again.

[ringring]

At first i didnt like the idea. But for medic i actually really like the idea. By not throwing down a medpack a person cant just throw it down and get back to shooting. They have to take themselves out of the fight to heal someone. So it brings the risk reward scenario up. Is the risk of me not being able to shoot worth it now?

It makes healing a much more active role rather than a passive role. You can look at Bf3 where they throw down a pack and go straight to shooting. Besides that brief second animation, their healing didnt hinder their offensive capability it actually enhanced it.

So i see it as a good thing.
In principle it's a good thing. The PS1 way was better than PS2 as D2A said, namely if someone is recieving med aid or repair they have to standstill.

It didn't look right. (In all the good things I saw this was a wee bit of a disappointment.)

[Kalbuth]

Am I the only one worrying about the effect of a repair beam on a MAX? Imagine a charging MAX supported on the move by engies using cover and their beam to reach the MAX and repair constantly.
As stated above, like for medic : is it stacking? what is the rate of repair? Effects could go very wrong, be it for heal beam or repair beam all the same.
I call that the TF2 medic train effect, where the only dominant tactic is a heavy supported by medic, making the whole game revolve around them.

And, having played medic in TF2, it ends up being boring pretty fast to run behind people to heal them while they do the shooting. You feel usefull, but at the expense of your own gameplay experience (you don't have to really aim, just follow some guy around. Ultra boring)
I largely prefer a combat medic setup where you support your comrade by additionnal fire and heal/revive them either during fight downtimes, or even under fire if it's getting hot.

Some medic system I quite liked was the Brink one (someone mentioned it above, or a very similar system), where you use a seringe on a guy, healing him over time. PS2 being slower paced then Brink, the seringe setup and animation could very well be slower in PS2 (like a 3 to 5 seconds setup time), and you need to touch your target to heal him.
For repair, distance repair I feel is too dangerous for gameplay, we should stick to contact repair, even requiring the MAX to stay without moving.

I really dislike all this "beam" thing

EDIT : ouch, it looks like I missed a complete page of this thread :) OK, all was said in the previous page. Inline with NewSith on this matter. Can be gamebreaking

[Memeotis]

Before I start my post, I want whoever reads this to keep in mind that just because a feature that is in another game is added to Planetside, does not mean that the feature will affect Planetside in the same way as it did the other game. For example, if prone was to be added to Planetside, the game would not devolve into CoD-camping. Why? KDR is not the focus of Planetside and killstreaks are not as important as they are in CoD.

I know this is probably redundant, seeing as I'm no longer speaking to console-players, but rather the PC master-race.

-----------------------------------------------------

I plan to play a medic, and from what I've heard from players who played the original planetside; playing a medic was a rather passive, defense-oriented and not a very diversified role. Players would have to stand still and you would have be up close and in contact with them, in order to be able to heal them. This sounds to me like the medic hardly had a chance to actively influence the gameplay, didn't really have too many tactical decisions to make and was really just a pitstop for other classes who needed health.

The role of the medic in TF2 (healing beam) is a very active one, but also very mindless. In order to be the best medic, all you had to do was heal constantly, unless you were only running around with only one other friendly player, in which case you were expected to alternate a bit between healing and shooting. A skilled medic was one who could keep the beam linked at all times, and who could dodge bullets. A medic-soldier/heavy combo was very powerful in this game, and is understandably something Planetside players would be worried about.

But Planetside is very different to TF2, and with regards to this particular issue, player health is a big factor. In TF2 players have a lot of health and are much harder to hit because the game is arcadey. In Planetside 2, a medic who thinks he can play like a TF2 medic will be killed within seconds. Another final feature to consider is that healing in PS2 is an ability, so similar to the cloak and the jump-pack, using it will drain ability-juice, which will regenerate when you don't. TF2 did not have this, medics in that game could heal indefinitely, this means that PS2 medics will have to think much more about who they heal.

I think the healing beam is a good idea, but of course the amount/rate at which it heals should not be too high. I think a good amount would be if you have two heavy assaults who go face to face, standing still and shooting each other, where one had a medic healing him throughout and one doesn't, the one who doesn't should die, but the one getting healed should only have 20% HP at the end. Very much marginal in straight-up engagements.

This way the medic will have a very active role healing the entire group, rather than making the front-soldier OP, like in TF2. I think it would also be a very nice addition if the healing tool had an alternate-fire, which would be a contact-, instantly-applied healing over time ability. This would be a convenient feature to have for healing soldiers who have been badly wounded, but are safe behind cover and does not need your direct attention. Or for situations where you are sprinting in between objective areas with a wounded squad, and you want to heal them one at a time in between sprints (assuming there is not unlimited sprinting). Instead of draining the bar continuously, this ability would instead take a chunk of that bar.

Reviving has already been confirmed, but I think a fitting alternative to the revive tool would be med-packs, similar to those in BF3. These would make sense for defenders of a base to use, since they already have a spawn-point nearby; making revives less important. This would basically make the medic role even more diversified, and would allow defenders to become slightly more rigid in static, indoor situations.

As for the engineer repair tool. This is probably the one that can be compared the most to the TF2 medic, since it's the only one (from what I understand) that can heal the MAX. I think a sufficient limitation on this tool would be to make it a contact-item, and thereby force the engineer to expose himself if he wants to mimic a medic/heavy combo from TF2. :evil:

And finally... regenerating health. And yes, it's health, not shield. I think the point of the shield is to reward the players who manage to get decisive kills without sustaining too much damage, which I totally agree with. If this was not in the game, players who play well (and without a medic) would get progressively worse. CoD mirrors Planetside's shield-mentality, just with health regeneration, which is okay for a mindless shooter I suppose, but would of course detract from a game like Planetside, since it would make the medic much less useful.

That said, I do believe there is room for health regeneration in Planetside 2, for the purpose of disincentivizing suicide. I want health regeneration for the player whose squad was obliterated by an intercepting force and is now running by himself to a new rendevouz. He knows it will take him 2 minutes to run there, 4 minutes if he commits suicide and joins the safety of his squad. He knows he can help his squad by getting there and doing some early recon-work, but feels that the risk is just too high because his health is so low. If he, on the other hand, knew that after 40-60 seconds a slow health regeneration would kick in, he would be much more inclined to not just kill himself. So in other words, this is not conventional health regeneration, since it will not affect moment to moment gameplay, it's designed in the assumption that if it ever kicks in, the next engagement will be entirely "fresh".

[captainkapautz]

Do we really need ANOTHER thread about this?

I mean there is like literally a thread for each of your concerns, on the first page of the forum even.

[CutterJohn]

Not a fan of the healing beam. Medics should be about after action cleanup, not active healing during a fight.

[Dreamcast]

uhhhh dude u got it all wrong.


First of all their was no class in Planetside 1......


The Medics could be snipers, heavy assult,etc.......Alot People healed themselves when they got shot if they got the chance instantly.


Now people are crying about some slow as hell regen system....When in Planetside most players healed themselves super fast lol.

Planetside 2 enhanced the medic class in terms of teamwork compared to Planetside 1 where majority of players were medics.



The real reason why regen health is getting resistance..is because regen health system is related to COD and battlefield....and the Planetside veterans elitist don't want this.


Keep in mind most Planetside Elitist here healed themselves after every shot...I would bet.

[kasiraghi]

PPl don't play PS for KDR?! O_

[ParisTeta]

I think there are some valid concerns about healing beams. There is no fun to have a medic all the time hiding around a corner, and heal from afar a attacking player, it allows no counter. Having the medic in the middle with "tanks" around is also bad gameplay (for planetside). BUT there is many way to counter such things, and i`m quite sure the PS Devs are aware of them, but remention them could be a good idea maybe someone brings something new? To be more constructive i try first.

1. Adjusting the Range Knob aka give them some minimal range for convinence but not much more the the splash radius of aoe weapon like grenade.

2. Make the beam interuptable, especially through EMP and Splash damage.

3. Combine 1+2 with a progressiv heal, less heal (15%) for the first 3 seconds then after 2 seconds more (45%) etc. Damage would reset it to the first state.

4. Tune healing as such, that you can`t counter heal headshots.

5. Allow active combat heals with big cooldown, for example a healing granade can only be used every 30+ sec

or

6. Add Nanite resistence to healed players, so they can`t have to much healing from range/aoe heal, if those are in game.

7. Give some weapon effects which reduce healing aka Nanite Suppression.


What ideas do you have to adjust the knob of this potential problem?

[Bobby Shaftoe]

The real reason why regen health is getting resistance..is because regen health system is related to COD and battlefield....and the Planetside veterans elitist don't want this.


No you idiot, the real reason is that in PS2 you don't even HAVE TO DO ANYTHING and you get back to 100% health. Yet you are so mad about someone running off to cover, stopping, equipping a med app then an eng tool and having to keep a constant eye out for threats since you are completely vulnerable doing so. Whilst you're cool with PS2, find some cover, have gun out, wait a little bit.

You really think your terribad sniping in PS2 is going to result in someone not just getting into cover and popping back out at 100% 20 seconds later?

I've been waiting to see how you'd justify something like this being in game and it is hilarious, the differences between PS1 'super soldiers' and your average PS2 'class' are falling away each day.

PS1 = People get 100%hp without teamwork (You rant/rage)
PS2 = People get 100%hp without teamwork (You say it's good because it's a modern fps mechanic)

I believe the term you're looking for is Hypocrite.

[MrBloodworth]

This is supposed to be a Team based War game, not a session based shooter.

[Anderz]

What if health regen only ever got you back up to something like 75% health, rather than 100%?

That way medics still have value.

[Coreldan]

I think that's a good idea and I would even suffice with 50% health max for the regen.

I wrote this to another thread:

I looked at the regen times in this vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Q5YLKbuda0o Around the 11:30 spot

I found the following:

Time till shield starts recharging after taking damage for the last time: 10s
Time for shield to regen full after regen starts: 5s
Time for health regen to start after last damage is taken: 25s (so around 10s after shield is full)
Health to regen fully after regen starts: 15s

Total time to go from "zomg I'm dead" to a pristine soldier: approximately 40s.

However, at the end of the "scene" when he regens his health up suddenly fast and with odd chunks, there is a player running near/almost behind him, you can see him in the minimap a bit later (sadly quality isnt enough to tell much, but thats a friendly moving blip on the map), so it could be a medic. But in the worst case scenario, it's still gonna take you 40s of not taking damage to be back into a pristine soldier.

I do not find this as a very bad thing. Taking someone out for 40s even if you don't manage to kill em ain't bad. While not a totally working analogy, but in the earlier world wars it was much more efficient to wound a soldier than to kill him. You wound a soldier and two healthy soldiers have to drag him out of there + resources spent on the wounded soldier outside the field. You kill a soldier and he is left there until the battle ends, a wooden coffin wont cost much :D

That said, I wouldnt mind even if it was slower. I don't like health regen, but nor do I like forced to run around with 1hp until I die (which happens cos the shootout will never be fair in a game with TTK this high unless both are full health, unlike with "realistic damage models") if there are no medics around doing their job. At least the person who got me into that condition renderered me useless for over half a minute when I have to hide and regenerate health so I won't instantly die.

[SKYeXile]

wait there are vets who dont want health regen? ***** what?

yea...what i want is to be killed by attrition after getting wave after wave of men thrown at me....no thanks...regen please.

[Chowley]

I must say I really hate healing beams, i was really put off the medic class in resistance 2, Global Agenda, TF2 and Firefall. I hope it doesnt end up in the release version of PS2 anyway.
It just feels overdone at this stage.

I like the simplicity of the BF2 style medic, just throw down a box and bugger off to revive someone or shoot an enemy, much better flow to the game, more fun and would probably mean more people playing medic. But then thats just how I see it, so who knows. :p

[Brusi]

I never liked the PS1 system. It didn't encourage battle medics. The beam doesn't either really. I'd prefer healing over time. So like a 0 meter syringe applicator you shoot into friendies that heals over time (and stops healing if they take damage). Much easier for someone that's just running with a squad.

Don't have to continuous heal someone and you don't have to stand in the same spot. A sane cooldown makes it a solid implementation.

^this

[NewSith]

^this

And yet again. It. Renders. Long range combat. Useless.

Especially for snipers, that most of the people here concider so OMGOP, and low-firerate weapons.

Basicaly a guy with rather quickly regenerating health can keep dodging the shots while hitting the target himself. That's what you call OP.

[MrBloodworth]

...

[Xyntech]

I love how passionate some of you guys can get on so little knowledge.

If I had seen the medic beam bending and curving, I'd be convinced it was lock on based, but given that it appeared more of a linear cone, I'm open to seeing more of it's mechanics before writing it off.

"Healing beams are awesome, you elitist scum!"

"Healing beams killed my mother you COD noob!"

This is why we can't have nice things.

[Malorn]

The beam also does something very important. It is a clear visual indicator telling enemies who is doing the healing. So if the guy you are shooting has a beam attached to him you know hes being healed and it isnt a mystery. Moreover it shows you roughly where the person healing him is. These are good indicators.

[CuddlyChud]

And yet again. It. Renders. Long range combat. Useless.

Especially for snipers, that most of the people here concider so OMGOP, and low-firerate weapons.

Basicaly a guy with rather quickly regenerating health can keep dodging the shots while hitting the target himself. That's what you call OP.

But so does the hand held applicator from ps1. Any sort of infinite ability to heal will render extreme long range combat ineffective.

[MrBloodworth]

Except the applicator was not automatic, took resources, required to be equipped/upholsterer, and left you unable to shoot while in use.

[The Kush]

The healing beam is perfect. A big upgrade from the PS1 days. I don't understand what everyone's problem is. And to the BF noob above me who wants to throw down med packs that's plain stupid. Not PS gameplay at all.

[Masahiko]

The main things to look at are:


Rate of healing
Range of Heal


If the healing is fast medics will be 1:1 ratio and this is something that becomes annoying as you need more people to kill one person. This outcome, obviously, is not one that we would like to see happen. As everyone suddenly gets pocket medic and Juggs there way to victory.

If the range is too long then there is no downside for the 2 man team using the medic as he never needs to stick his head out and the other person is constantly getting a heal.

These points also apply to Armor repair. Well see how its balanced in beta though.

[NewSith]

The beam also does something very important. It is a clear visual indicator telling enemies who is doing the healing. So if the guy you are shooting has a beam attached to him you know hes being healed and it isnt a mystery. Moreover it shows you roughly where the person healing him is. These are good indicators.

Please, Malorn, I beg you watch the video I posted earlier in the thread. It shows perfectly what a medic with a healbeam, good dodging skills and a team of good shooters can accomplish.

I beg you, mate, 'cause I like the way you see the game, most of your posts and ideas are rock solid, but supporting this idea is a BAD thing! You, Coreldan and Sirisian are the last people I want to see actually supporting HoTs or Healbeams in a game like PlanetSide 1|2.

[Malorn]

Im going to look at it objectively and wait to see how it plays out. Im at the point where im willing to give them a lot of benefit of the doubt for now if i can see what they are trying to accomplish. Beta seems right around the corner so ill wait to see how these things feel in game, with a squad, and not a demo environment. I can see both sides but I dont see the idea as fundamentally bad. I want to see how it plays out. Plenty of time to give them feedback of this nature.

Actually my biggest concern from the videos is the prowler model, which some folks have said is bigger and fatter, but i need to see the stream footage before I start another prowler thread. :)

[Dreamcast]

No you idiot, the real reason is that in PS2 you don't even HAVE TO DO ANYTHING and you get back to 100% health. Yet you are so mad about someone running off to cover, stopping, equipping a med app then an eng tool and having to keep a constant eye out for threats since you are completely vulnerable doing so. Whilst you're cool with PS2, find some cover, have gun out, wait a little bit.

You really think your terribad sniping in PS2 is going to result in someone not just getting into cover and popping back out at 100% 20 seconds later?

I've been waiting to see how you'd justify something like this being in game and it is hilarious, the differences between PS1 'super soldiers' and your average PS2 'class' are falling away each day.

PS1 = People get 100%hp without teamwork (You rant/rage)
PS2 = People get 100%hp without teamwork (You say it's good because it's a modern fps mechanic)

I believe the term you're looking for is Hypocrite.

100% 20 seconds later?.....Seems like ur talking about Planetside 1...might be less, more like 15 seconds-10 seconds.


Im not hypocrite...just stating the facts that this sytem is way better than Planetside 1 considering the time it takes to regen.


Stop acting like it was hard to heal urself in Planetside...Planetside seems like a much easier game in terms of telling where the frontlines were at so it was quite easy to hide in the right place and heal......Planetside 2 on the other hand seems way more chaotic, it will be harder to hide and heal.


Here's a video showing the health regen in action

The person gets shot at 1:18....he fully heals at 1:56.......Thats 38 seconds........Yeah man regen is so OP LMFAO

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-4AePpza-4

We need 15 seconds to heal our selves like in planetside 1

[Xyntech]

Please, Malorn, I beg you watch the video I posted earlier in the thread. It shows perfectly what a medic with a healbeam, good dodging skills and a team of good shooters can accomplish.

I beg you, mate, 'cause I like the way you see the game, most of your posts and ideas are rock solid, but supporting this idea is a BAD thing! You, Coreldan and Sirisian are the last people I want to see actually supporting HoTs or Healbeams in a game like PlanetSide 1|2.

It's fine as long as there is like a 1 second delay after taking damage before the medic can heal you.

What we don't need are medic buddies who constantly have a healing beam on 1 guy, but with PS2's faster TTK's, I think range combat is already fixed. These healing beams probably would screw with longer ranged combat if the gunplay were like in the first game, but I think PS2 already has it sorted.

I'm not saying these beams are inherently good mind you, but I can see how they could easily be balanced decently.

I just want no lock on for them, and a short delay after taking damage before they start healing. Being able to heal at longer than point blank range, and being able to heal someone while both of you are on the move are fine by me, and fit in with the slightly quicker pace of the game.

I'd prefer medics not be as gimped as they were in the first game. This means better healing mechanics, and a revive function that doesn't infringe on a players spawn timer.

[Bobby Shaftoe]

We need 15 seconds to heal our selves like in planetside 1
His shields start to regen 10 seconds later and he's still moving to an objective and has a weapon equipped ready to deal with any threats.

PS1, stop moving, perform several actions (with finite resources) without an equipped weapon.
PS2, keep moving, no specific action required and have weapon ready at all times.