Regenerating Health?...Why?

[Goldeh]

In the Live Stream, we got footage of the regeneration of wounded soldiers. Now, I'm not sure if this was a cert or just passive ability that everyone had..

I'm fine with regenerating shields, it seems to me, shields are there so people have a encentive to not commit suicide if they do make it out of a duel with a sliver of green health left, that's fine. but I don't like the regenerating green health.

Reason why I say this is because that if your dueling with a guy then he can just run away and heal up fully. I don't think that's what the game should be encouraging this attack and retreat style.

Furthermore, it kind of makes medics less worthwhile to pick as a class. Why bring a medic right when you can just run away and regen right? The way I see it is that medics would be just used more for revivals then actually healing. Since everyone can heal.

If anything, regen health should be kept as a perk and not as a base passive that every class gets. Assuming that's what it is.

[Knightwyvern]

I'm still not really sure how I feel about this, I'll wait until I play the game to decide. What I will tentatively say though, is I agree that it does devalue medics to some extent. I really enjoyed the teamwork in PS1 of medics and engis moving around a hallway bringing people back up to optimum after a fight through a basement, before a spawn room rush.

[Roy Awesome]

Health didn't regenerate. What you saw were shields.

Also, when health was regenerating, it was because there were medics around healing people. That's what the green particles were

[Zekeen]

Hehe, you dorks. It's for the sake of the new playtesters at E3. They added in a lot of stuff they are removing after E3 so the game goes over better with those greenhorns with their heads cut off trying to find the next guy to kill.

So don't worry and relax, regenerating health will most likely be gone. Shields regen, health does not.

I think I heard Clegg say they had features in just for E3, so I do know for a fact many of the negative features were just for show.

[Zulthus]

No, Roy, there were plenty of times where health regenerated ~20 seconds after combat, and there were no medics around.

[GoldDragon]

I'm still not really sure how I feel about this, I'll wait until I play the game to decide. What I will tentatively say though, is I agree that it does devalue medics to some extent. I really enjoyed the teamwork in PS1 of medics and engis moving around a hallway bringing people back up to optimum after a fight through a basement, before a spawn room rush.

I agree with this. They saw a lot about the many roles you can play in PlanetSide but with auto regen on health there is no question about it devaluing medics. Off hand, I don't like the mechanic. That said, I'd be okay with it regenerating very, VERY slowly so if you can't find a medic or really feel like going lone wolf you're not totally screwed but you still want a medic to heal you up.

Push the teamwork! :)

[DayOne]

I'd love this to be a piece of equipment that you have to cert into. But I don't like that everyone just has it, we already have shields.

[blazie]

If it does regenerate by itself, I just hope its a case of after a minute being at really low health your armour gives you emergency medication so you get up to 20 health or something. So getting fully healed would require a medic.

Planetside is all about teamwork, and would make us medics feel a bit useless if we weren't needed.

[Gelnika]

There was regenerating health in the demo they showed, and no one knows if it will stay like that in the real deal.

I don't have an issue with it so long as the regeneration countdown timer is not too short and the actual regeneration is not too fast. Again...wait 'til Beta.

[Hyiero]

Having got my hands on the game for about an hour today my health didn't regenerate once but I believe there was a cert for slow up regen and alot of people were getting healed by medics. Though my shields did regen after about 15secs

[Zulthus]

Having got my hands on the game for about an hour today my health didn't regenerate once but I believe there was a cert for slow up regen and alot of people were getting healed by medics. Though my shields did regen after about 15secs

Maybe that's what it was. That still shouldn't even be something you can cert into. The more certs you have, less reliance on medics?

[blazie]

Having got my hands on the game for about an hour today my health didn't regenerate once but I believe there was a cert for slow up regen and alot of people were getting healed by medics. Though my shields did regen after about 15secs

Thats good news.

I suppose the cert would be good for lone wolf sniper / recon types. And I'd think infantry in the heat of battle would rather spend their certs on other things that would be useful, as being a front line trooper I'd expect there to be medics on hand / little need or want to spend a few minutes hiding and missing the action. :)

[Goldeh]

Hehe, you dorks. It's for the sake of the new playtesters at E3. They added in a lot of stuff they are removing after E3 so the game goes over better with those greenhorns with their heads cut off trying to find the next guy to kill.

So don't worry and relax, regenerating health will most likely be gone. Shields regen, health does not.

I think I heard Clegg say they had features in just for E3, so I do know for a fact many of the negative features were just for show.

Are you sure? I've watched the Live Stream and they never mentioned anything about the health regen being temporary.

[CutterJohn]

Maybe that's what it was. That still shouldn't even be something you can cert into. The more certs you have, less reliance on medics?

They had to give up something else for it.


PS1 had the regen implant, remember.

[Stardouser]

Maybe that's what it was. That still shouldn't even be something you can cert into. The more certs you have, less reliance on medics?

This, certs don't make something that wasn't OK to exist, OK to exist.

[Rbstr]

PS1 had the regen implant, remember.
Shhhhhhh!

The hypocrisy might cause some people to implode.

[GoldDragon]

They had to give up something else for it.


PS1 had the regen implant, remember.

Health for Stamina - What's the tradeoff this time?

[Hyiero]

I will make sure tommorrow I test out this up regen fully that way I can give a much better analysis on the situation but from what I saw if up regen was as slow as shield regen with a full server of people ur not tonna be out of combat long enough to replace a good combat medic

[Drakkonan]

As far as horrible design decisions go, this one ranks pretty high up there. I expect it to be taken out (if it was ever actually in to begin with).

Edit: With the current TTK, this pretty much nullifies medics. The amount of time it takes to reduce health when compared to armor is very small. If someone takes enough damage to reduce their shields to 0, there's a high probability that their health will also deplete. With only a 30 second window to heal, and the scarcity of players with depleted health, the medic will serve a purpose in very few instances.

[SpcFarlen]

TTK at medium to close range is very fast if you have a good shot. So even with regen, i dont see it being a problem. Regen is there so people dont turtle after surviving a skirmish. They get back on their feet, so to speak, and get right into the action again. Medics aid that process.

So i do think a regen is useful. Though i dont think it should replace the abilities of a medic.

[Kaw]

They had to give up something else for it.


PS1 had the regen implant, remember.

I don't think this is right. In Totalbiscuit's video from a couple of weeks ago, his light assault had this health regen too and I don't remeber seeing it being a cert. His health starts to regen at 4m 20s or so: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6HgC6Exs0U#t=4m05
That being said, I don't really mind. It doesn't take effect until fifteen seconds or so after your shields are fully regened, so to take advantage of this you would have to take yourself out of the fight for more than 30 seconds.

[Zekeen]

They had to give up something else for it.


PS1 had the regen implant, remember.

And medkits and second wind too!!!!

[sylphaen]

If it's a limited use medkit you have to select for your equipment at the cost of opportunity of having other items like grenades, I do not see an issue.

If it's just auto-regen just because time has elapsed and you avoided combat, I do not how it improves the game.

Edit: Inventory management was also in PS1. ;)

[Virulence]

I don't have a problem with slow health regen as a cert.

Thing is, that cert would take up a slot of something else that could do other things which could be more useful in a lot of situations, and if you had solid medic support, you wouldn't need health regen. So, it could a matter of preference - a very heavy firepower style of play oriented towards not having medics with some self-sustaining capacity, or coordinated squad play involving a good balance of medics + other classes.

[Bags]

Ps1 had a regen implant and no one complained, why whine about it now?

[sylphaen]

Ps1 had a regen implant and no one complained, why whine about it now?

No one complained because there were stronger alternatives available and it drained stamina super fast when combined with 2 other modules.

However, THE reason why no one complained was that everyone and their mother could be medics and heal themselves.

Edit: I remember some infils used to like it back when people were still low BR. It had the advantage of saving space in their small inventory at the cost of an implant slot.

[Zulthus]

They had to give up something else for it.


PS1 had the regen implant, remember.

But it was completely useless and no one wasted a slot for it. It gave you 1 HP per 2 stamina points, and after a battle you'd never have the stamina to use it anyway.

The one we saw in the stream is quite quick and you'd only have to sit behind a box for a small period of time.

[T MAN]

It would probably sound better if it were still an implant that you would have to choose from a list of implants like " adv targeting, darklight, etc", rather than a certification that once you unlock it it will always be there.

[Bags]

No one complained because there were stronger alternatives available and it drained stamina super fast when combined with 2 other modules.

However, THE reason why no one complained was that everyone and their mother could be medics and heal themselves.

Edit: I remember some infils used to like it back when people were still low BR. It had the advantage of saving space in their small inventory at the cost of an implant slot.

There are alternatives available here.

[Bags]

But it was completely useless and no one wasted a slot for it. It gave you 1 HP per 2 stamina points, and after a battle you'd never have the stamina to use it anyway.

The one we saw in the stream is quite quick and you'd only have to sit behind a box for a small period of time.

Waiting 20 seconds for it to kick in after taking damage is fairly useless imo.

[Top Sgt]

hmm i didn't even notice health reg when watching it live.

Now I gotta go watch my recording of it and look for that here in a few.

[Crovus]

I'm pretty sure it was a slotted utility, so maybe you give up shield for it?

EDIT: Also only saw it on one class.

[meiam]

So does that mean there are no medic kit in the field? That would be really lame.

Imo health regen is fine, but not full health regen, something like you're health will always return to mutiple of 25, so says you survive with 41 health left, wait 10 sec, it goes back to 50, but anything more than that you need medic/med kit.

[Raymac]

Quick show of hands: Who here is silly enough to think the devs would make a medic class and then remove any need for medics?

[Bags]

Quick show of hands: Who here is silly enough to think the devs would make a medic class and then remove any need for medics?

http://i.imgur.com/sZngg.png

[sylphaen]

There are alternatives available here.

And I limited myself to explaining why no one used to complain about it in PS1.
:)

The big factor is: does it involve a cost or specific trade-offs to enjoy that benefit ?

My perception is that it makes it a bit too easy to play solo with it. I think that when you got damaged, you should feel vulnerable being too isolated.

IMO, I believe they may have just put it in just because of Light Assault for the same reason they gave them ammo dispensers: medics/engineers cannot follow the light assault guys over walls/buildings.

[Taru]

Worth mentioning again: there were a lot of abilities that are in the E3 build for the sake of demonstration ... a MAX unit flying a plane comes to mind ... that won't be in future builds.

If health regeneration was on for everyone (I didn't pay that close of attention), I would assume that it was so that they could showcase fighting over support roles.

[Bags]

And I limited myself to explaining why no one used to complain about it in PS1.
:)

The big factor is: does it involve a cost or specific trade-offs to enjoy that benefit ?

My perception is that it makes it a bit too easy to play solo with it. I think that when you got damaged, you should feel vulnerable being too isolated.

IMO, I believe they may have just put it in just because of Light Assault for the same reason they gave them ammo dispensers: medics/engineers cannot follow the light assault guys over walls/buildings.

It goes in one of your utility slots. It was a trade off in PS1, it's a trade off in PS2.

It's like people try to find stupid shit to whine about. Teamwork still comes out on top.

[Zulthus]

If it's really in a utility slot, then I missed it. Sorry. Don't really care then, as long as they have to give something up for it. I just don't really want everyone having regenerating health.

[sylphaen]

It goes in one of your utility slots. It was a trade off in PS1, it's a trade off in PS2.

It's like people try to find stupid shit to whine about. Teamwork still comes out on top.

What about taking into consideration problems of asymmetric information before assuming people are trying to whine about any detail they get their hands on ?

Gameplay is not stupid shit either, that's why people are concerned when they cannot exactly know how something works.

Mainly discussing on forums until we get better info from beta hands-on...

[Kaw]

If it's really in a utility slot, then I missed it. Sorry. Don't really care then, as long as they have to give something up for it. I just don't really want everyone having regenerating health.

First of all, let me say that I don't think that this is a utility slot. As I said earlier in this thread, Totalbiscuit had infantry health regen during his tour a few weeks ago as seen here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6HgC6Exs0U#t=4m05
We saw no sign of this being a cert or implant of some sort during his videos and that probably would have been the sort of thing he would mention. This also seems to be from before they were making changes for E3.

Secondly, I don't see what the problem with this is. Why don't you want people to have regenerating health? It only kicks in after literally 30 seconds of not being shot.(15 seconds for shields, 15 seconds for health) This means, in situations where you won a fight or you got really far away from a fight you were losing, you can go into your next fight without being worthless. Medics will still be needed because they drastically reduce your down time between fights. Thirty seconds is a very long time in any game.

[Xyntech]

If it's really in a utility slot, then I missed it. Sorry. Don't really care then, as long as they have to give something up for it. I just don't really want everyone having regenerating health.

There was a health regenerating implant in the first Planetside, just mentioning it as an example. Granted, it was pretty shitty. I thought it could have been much stronger and still have been balanced and far inferior to having a medic around. Having everyone able to carry a medical applicator was a lot worse IMO.

I'm not worried about most of these things that can be easily balanced by tweaking a few stats around. I'm more concerned with the core ideas right now, and I feel like a health regeneration ability could be fine as long as it is well balanced.

Trade off of not having something else important, reasonably long delay before it kicks in, etc.

If a player wants to lone wolf it, let them. Planetside in its prime wasn't 100% pure team work. The zerg were the mindless backbone from which team players and outfits could mount their plans. As long as team play always comes out on top (which is usually does in most games), I'm fine with it.

[Stew]

Slow health regeneration is necessery if every players dont have the ability to heal themself ! If they dont allow health regen so every class should have a Self injection healing thing with a cool down !

Because yeah for people who as BIG outfit and enough friends to play with this should not be a issue to actually have a medic to trow a Medic pack

But for people who have experiencing playing with randoms in battlefield series or the same type of games : WE ALL KNOW THATS MOST PEOPLE SEAMS TO BE COMPLEAT RETARD ON THE BATTLEFIELD ! How many people in here have try to get Amo out of a randoms Suport in battlefield or who have try to actually heal or get heal by randoms in Bf series ?


In planetside it will be the same so at least self injector or slow health regen is essential ! Shield regen just make sens compleatly !


I will like to see the (( we want to force team work )) guys to calm down because we are not going to have this game to survive if its to hard core and to much team work forced because the MAss of people needed to make this game viable will run away ! When you have to depend to much on randoms or on Massive outfit the game turn into a EPIC FAIL ! in term of $$ making !

thats pretty much it !
HERE IS A EPIC EXEMPLE OF A RANDOMS LOOK IF THIS GUYS WAS A MEDICS ;)
Battlefield Friends - Mortars - YouTube

[Crovus]

First of all, let me say that I don't think that this is a utility slot. As I said earlier in this thread, Totalbiscuit had infantry health regen during his tour a few weeks ago as seen here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6HgC6Exs0U#t=4m05
We saw no sign of this being a cert or implant of some sort during his videos and that probably would have been the sort of thing he would mention. This also seems to be from before they were making changes for E3.


That's because TB was using admin commands to switch between classes. Just wait until tomorrow when we get the second stream (pay attention to utilities) or todays stream gets put on youtube.

[BigBossMonkey]

So does that mean there are no medic kit in the field? That would be really lame.

Imo health regen is fine, but not full health regen, something like you're health will always return to mutiple of 25, so says you survive with 41 health left, wait 10 sec, it goes back to 50, but anything more than that you need medic/med kit.


They've stated that med packs are one of the consumables along with grenades and boomers and the like.

[Stew]

Furthermore, it kind of makes medics less worthwhile to pick as a class. Why bring a medic right when you can just run away and regen right? The way I see it is that medics would be just used more for revivals then actually healing. Since everyone can heal.

If anything, regen health should be kept as a perk and not as a base passive that every class gets. Assuming that's what it is.

medic can actually and are actually the Only ones who can REVIVE peoples so in a games like planetside the ability to REVIVE people Worth to play this class Nothing to do with the (( healing )) i think every class should be able to heal themself if not it reduce the pace of the game and encourage CAMPING and ARMA style of gameplay Planetside should never be like ARMA !


SO Medic = REVIVE and Revive = the most valuable thing on this game !

When your inside a ennemy base nothing wotrh more than been able to bring back few guys in a infiltration of in a assault !

They will not respawn at 1 km away and have to go back to the base they will be actually rigth ehre they got kill back into the actions


So Revive did not worth enough to take the class ? you need everyones to finally become a medic to heal themself because none of the ramdons are doing it ?

[Kaw]

That's because TB was using admin commands to switch between classes. Just wait until tomorrow when we get the second stream (pay attention to utilities) or todays stream gets put on youtube.

The part of the video I linked has his health regening without switching classes. Unless you think that passive health regen comes along with admin powers, it looked like exactly what the op was complaining about. I'm just saying, as far as I can tell there is evidence that suggests that this is not something you have to make a sacrifice for, and there is no evidence to suggest that there is a sacrifice to be made. Either way we will see more tomorrow.

[Goldeh]

Battlefield Friends - Mortars - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNnRjcX5tQw)

Oh hey! it's the creators of Doraleous and Associates! *glee*

[Stew]

Oh hey! it's the creators of Doraleous and Associates! *glee*

those story are my battlefield Life while playing with randoms ! damned funny but damned true !

So i would like to not having to depend on to many randoms to heal me if their is no medic in my outfit ! Or alway having to be a medic myself just to heal myself its silly !

[Crovus]

The part of the video I linked has his health regening without switching classes. Unless you think that passive health regen comes along with admin powers, it looked like exactly what the op was complaining about. I'm just saying, as far as I can tell there is evidence that suggests that this is not something you have to make a sacrifice for, and there is no evidence to suggest that there is a sacrifice to be made. Either way we will see more tomorrow.

My point about him switching classes was that because he was switching with admin commands you couldn't see what utilities he had equipped on the classes.

EDIT: Also want to state that not everyone health in the stream regenerated.

[captainkapautz]

Whatever it is some of you are smoking, either gimme some or put the crackpipe down.

The healthregen atm in PS2, judging by all the current video evidence, takes AT LEAST 25 seconds to kick in, and takes several seconds to heal someone back to full.

There is a simple reason why a lot of you didn't notice it and say "There is no health regen.".
That's because people die long before it kicks in, only a few people in the stream actually survived long enough to have their health regen kick in.

And it making medics obsolete is just outright inane.
We are not talking about CoD or BF levels of regen, were I hide for 5 seconds and am back to full health, we are talking AT LEAST half a minute, half a minute in combat is a fucking eternity.

[EVILoHOMER]

I'm all for regenerating health, it works well in BF3 to the point where you still need medics but it helps out if you're not shot at long enough. It works by making sure you don't have to take time out of the action to go and find a terminal (in PS2) and heal up which was always tedious in PS.

Everyone is so elitist on these forums, it's a good feature and lets see how it plays out before people start moaning, it works in BF3 so probably works in PS2 as well.

[captainkapautz]

I'm all for regenerating health, it works well in BF3 to the point where you still need medics but it helps out if you're not shot at long enough. It works by making sure you don't have to take time out of the action to go and find a terminal (in PS2) and heal up which was always tedious in PS.

Everyone is so elitist on these forums, it's a good feature and lets see how it plays out before people start moaning, it works in BF3 so probably works in PS2 as well.

Great, now you ruined it.

[EVILoHOMER]

We are not talking about CoD or BF levels of regen, were I hide for 5 seconds and am back to full health, we are talking AT LEAST half a minute, half a minute in combat is a fucking eternity.


I don't play COD any more so cannot remember what it was like but Medics are not useless in BF3.....

All the time people are asking for med packs from medics and most the time you do not get them. So regenerating health always helps out in those situations and it doesn't regen back fast at all, if you're be shot at constantly it wont even regen at all.

Medics are useful when people play their class, med packs give you your health back so fast and reviving not only gives people a lot of points but it keeps them in the game and takes that death off their K/D ratio.


It also gives people a chance to fight back against the odds. Where if say you're stuck at the top of a tower in Planetside with no where to go cause they have vehicles on the outside and spawning from the bottom. Regenerating health might give you some time to recover and try and fight your way out of there. Where as without it in Planetside and without med packs you'd be sure to die very fast even if you're the most skilled player.

Also don't forget that in Planetside armour counted for more than health, so if PS2 is the same then you'll still need lots of armour repairs.

[EVILoHOMER]

Great, now you ruined it.

?

BF3 is a great game and shows Regenerating health works well..

[captainkapautz]

I don't play COD any more so cannot remember what it was like but Medics are not useless in BF3.....

All the time people are asking for med packs from medics and most the time you do not get them. So regenerating health always helps out in those situations and it doesn't regen back fast at all, if you're be shot at constantly it wont even regen at all.

Medics are useful when people play their class, med packs give you your health back so fast and reviving not only gives people a lot of points but it keeps them in the game and takes that death off their K/D ratio.


It also gives people a chance to fight back against the odds. Where if say you're stuck at the top of a tower in Planetside with no where to go cause they have vehicles on the outside and spawning from the bottom. Regenerating health might give you some time to recover and try and fight your way out of there. Where as without it in Planetside and without med packs you'd be sure to die very fast even if you're the most skilled player.

Also don't forget that in Planetside armour counted for more than health, so if PS2 is the same then you'll still need lots of armour repairs.

Why are you trying to convince me of something I'm already agreeing with?


?

BF3 is a great game and shows Regenerating health works well..

You invoked the name of it, which shall not be named, so therefor 75% of the people will go "RABBLERABBLERABBLE BF SUX" and just shut down.

[EVILoHOMER]

Let them whine on, hopefully SOE has designers to design the game and not have to listen to what people say too much on the forums. See when you listen to the forums you get stuff like TEF taken away in SWG because of all the whiners. Remember the glowing Vanu force blade? That was taken away due to forum whiners :( Oh yeah and the world was killed in WoW because of forums whiners not wanting to travel......

Developers just need to design a game they find is fun and the rest will take care of itself.

[captainkapautz]

Remember the glowing Vanu force blade? That was taken away due to forum whiners :(

I think that was taken away, because it was pretty fucking dumb to have the vanu infiltrator run around with a frickin glowstick.

[EVILoHOMER]

I think that was taken away, because it was pretty fucking dumb to have the vanu infiltrator run around with a frickin glowstick.

It was my fave thing to sneak up on ppl and turn it on and scare them :D I remember I kept saying keep it and at least put it as a second ALT fire option but no :( You could pretend you were a Jedi running around or do glow stick base raids and all die.

Hopefully it'll be a customizable extra in PS2.

[Dreamcast]

The funny thing is I bet the people crying about this are the same people in Planetside 1 who healed themselves everytime they got shot......

They were probably against classes too when it came out.


So Planetside 2, has a slow as hell health regen....Which is way better than Planetside 1 where most people just healed themselves pretty damn fast since a lot of people had medic cert....and you guys are crying?....lol



This a huge improvement over Planetside 1.....The only reason people are hating because Health Regeneration is associated with Battlefield and Call of duty.



Fact is Medics will be way more valuable in planetside 2 than in Planetside 1.....where most people were medics with snipers/heavy assults etc and instantly healed themselves when shot.......so don't say it ruins the medic in Planetside 2 lol.



Devaluing medics LMAO.....Planetside 2 enhance them with classes.

[sylphaen]

On the other hand, why do you feel that you should not die if you have been made isolated from your team's medics and have no healing support ?

If you really want regen, I'd say drop down health packs from people you frag but getting health benefits because you wait in a corner or avoid fighting long enough feels strange to me.

Waiting for beta to judge if it really improves the game or is simply a goto option to improve K/D.

Edit: There is one good point I see to it. Since people have regen, medics have no excuses not to be limited in healing ammo. Holding a point with minimal headcount will then be a nice challenge.
e.g. should you heal or wait it off ? how long can your squad holds this point without healing resources ?

[Thomas]

Health Regen is fine, it doesn't impact combat itself, just the wait inbetween fights. For instance, Skyrim has regen health yet you would be a fool not to bring a couple hundred health potions with you when out travelling. PS2 will be the same.

[Sturmhardt]

If there is a regenerating shield, why should health regenerate? You could just have health then, no need for this double mechanic. I would not like to see regenerating health like that.

[DviddLeff]

Although its not a game breaking feature I would prefer it if health was not regenerating and you had to use a medic to get the health back again. Adds to teamwork plain and simple.

[Kalbuth]

A point supporters of regen are forgetting : chain of supply.

Not having an automatic self-regen will force to either rely on external teamates using a tool, or having a little tool yourself (like medpacks) that you have to use and replenish when either your medic or yourself runs out of tool juice
There was ammo in the PS1 gluegun.

Couldn't we have a solution avoiding the PS1 "we are all self-healing medics not relying on others" syndrom, while keeping the need to checkout on our healing supply?

[Satexios]

For all we know those people used medpacks to start with to heal themselves.. lol

[captainkapautz]

Although its not a game breaking feature I would prefer it if health was not regenerating and you had to use a medic to get the health back again. Adds to teamwork plain and simple.

Losing the current form of health regen wouldn't really add to teamwork, same as it doesn't hinder teamwork by being in the game.

A point supporters of regen are forgetting : chain of supply.

Not having an automatic self-regen will force to either rely on external teamates using a tool, or having a little tool yourself (like medpacks) that you have to use and replenish when either your medic or yourself runs out of tool juice
There was ammo in the PS1 gluegun.

Couldn't we have a solution avoiding the PS1 "we are all self-healing medics not relying on others" syndrom, while keeping the need to checkout on our healing supply?

Sorry, I don't understand what you are trying to say.

Are you comparing the current health regen in PS2 to PS1-style self sufficency?

[Stardouser]

?

BF3 is a great game and shows Regenerating health works well..

No it isn't, at least not if you want anything other than a constant meatgrind, and no, regenerating health doesn't work well. That goes double for vehicle health.

[sylphaen]

For all we know those people used medpacks to start with to heal themselves.. lol

It may sound but the supply chain argument from Kalbuth has substance.

In PS1, without access to an equipment terminal or supplies from backpacks, you would eventually run out of medpacks (the only non-medic healing mechanism if we exclude implants and medical terminals). However, an auto-regen mechanic does not seem to have limits attached to how much it can heal as long as you are alive.

I'll wait to test it before judging it but afaik, I think it should be limited to the light assault class, imo. Other classes can be followed by teammates so I don't see why they should get such a mechanic. However, other limited-use options to heal oneself (medkits, implants) should be available though.

[LegioX]

health regen in BF 3 is pathetic. You get shot, run away, stay behind corner for 5-10 sec. BOOM 100% HEALTH.

[mirwalk]

I was watching, and I saw a real slow health regen on one of the clips from gamespot. It was most noticeable when the guy was playing a NC MAX. You can see the health slowly going up. Rather low rate IMO, but this was also on a MAX unit. One of the units that was supposed to be unable to repair itself.

[captainkapautz]

No it isn't, at least not if you want anything other than a constant meatgrind, and no, regenerating health doesn't work well. That goes double for vehicle health.

A constant meatgrind is kinda what shooters are all about, ya know?

And regenerating health CAN work well if properly adjusted.

I was watching, and I saw a real slow health regen on one of the clips from gamespot. It was most noticeable when the guy was playing a NC MAX. You can see the health slowly going up. Rather low rate IMO, but this was also on a MAX unit. One of the units that was supposed to be unable to repair itself.

Well, it's health, so he isn't repairing, but regenerating.

[SpcFarlen]

Hate to kind of keep stating this, but this is PlanetSide 2. Yes many things from Planetside 1 will be there. but it is entirely a different game. They didnt update graphics, change some interfaces and ship it. They built it from the ground up. So saying "well in PS1...", we know. But lets forget numbers here and remember that this is a new game. Treat it as the only Planetside.

This helps discussions much better than "well it wasnt (or was) in PS".



Slight rant aside. I dont see this as a problem. It really wont effect combat that much, A)considering everyone has it. B)If you run away from a skirmish because you are low on health to regen, you are not in that fight anymore. And C) it doesnt force the need for anyone one class over the other. So that way reach person can play what they want to play.

[DviddLeff]

Yeah, it shouldn't be as quick as BF3.

But don't forget that TTKs are a lot lower than in PS1 - does that extra bit of health make that much of a difference when it takes only a second or two to die? Certainly not as much as it did in the original where it WOULD take 10+ shots to kill a rexo with a Pulsar every single time.

[Stardouser]

A constant meatgrind is kinda what shooters are all about, ya know?

And regenerating health CAN work well if properly adjusted.

A constant meatgrind with zero spacing between firefights. No, shooters aren't always about that constant meatgrind. BF2, if your squad leader died, you had a moderate walk back. BF3, you can spawn on any squad member, and the flags are so packed you can already start shooting at the next flag(at least in distance terms, cover not necessarily).

[captainkapautz]

Yeah, it shouldn't be as quick as BF3.

But don't forget that TTKs are a lot lower than in PS1 - does that extra bit of health make that much of a difference when it takes only a second or two to die? Certainly not as much as it did in the original where it WOULD take 10+ shots to kill a rexo with a Pulsar every single time.

What extra bit of health?

And seriously people, stop with the "IT HAS TO GO BECAUSE ITS BAD IN BF/COD!", it is nowhere near those levels, at all.

[GhettoPrince]

keep in mind how fast paced the combat is now that headshots actually mean something. I think it just gives people some options for when they survive a fight by just a sliver of health. It gives you some incentive to bunker down and keep fighting (and give your teammates a chance to get to you) instead of just jumping off a wall so you can get a fresh body.

[captainkapautz]

A constant meatgrind with zero spacing between firefights. No, shooters aren't always about that constant meatgrind. BF2, if your squad leader died, you had a moderate walk back. BF3, you can spawn on any squad member, and the flags are so packed you can already start shooting at the next flag(at least in distance terms, cover not necessarily).

Shooters are about shooting people is what I said.

You seriously need to lay off with your BF3-hateparade, I get you greatly dislike the game, but denying gameaspects just because they have been in BF3 in some way or form is just dumb.

[DviddLeff]

Sorry I didn't describe that well at all - the extra health gained from having a medic around or having health regen quickly on its own.

So is it worth running around for a medic to patch you up if that extra % of health will make you last 0.2 seconds longer when under fire? How many people will just say forget it and not bother waiting for a medic and just head into combat regardless?

Medics still have a set role - reviving people and keeping them in the fight with their squad, but having healing parties in the original did slow things down...

[captainkapautz]

Sorry I didn't describe that well at all - the extra health gained from having a medic around or having health regen quickly on its own.

So is it worth running around for a medic to patch you up if that extra % of health will make you last 0.2 seconds longer when under fire? How many people will just say forget it and not bother waiting for a medic and just head into combat regardless?

Medics still have a set role - reviving people and keeping them in the fight with their squad, but having healing parties in the original did slow things down...

I'm sorry, but what does that have to do with health regen?

[Baneblade]

Health for Stamina - What's the tradeoff this time?

Time.




Or do people still not place any value on that in MMOs...

[captainkapautz]

Time.




Or do people still not place any value on that in MMOs...

Apparently it's overabundant in large scale combat.

[DviddLeff]

I'm sorry, but what does that have to do with health regen?

As in - does it make any difference whatsoever in the scheme of things? Perhaps not.

[captainkapautz]

As in - does it make any difference whatsoever in the scheme of things? Perhaps not.

Well, the way I see it the current form of healthregen does not in anyway hind or replace a medic in a combat situation, at all.

Only thing it does is help with recovery after a fight/retreat (a real retreat people, not just a "Lets hide behind this crate for 2 seconds till my health is full"-retreat).

[Stardouser]

Shooters are about shooting people is what I said.

You seriously need to lay off with your BF3-hateparade, I get you greatly dislike the game, but denying gameaspects just because they have been in BF3 in some way or form is just dumb.
Are you talking about regeneration now or game pace? Make up your mind, but in any event, health regen doesn't belong in any game regardless of whether it's BF3 or Awesome Shooter 2000.

If BF3 didn't exist, I would still say this.

[Mechzz]

Well, the way I see it the current form of healthregen does not in anyway hind or replace a medic in a combat situation, at all.

Only thing it does is help with recovery after a fight/retreat (a real retreat people, not just a "Lets hide behind this crate for 2 seconds till my health is full"-retreat).

Put slow-regen health together with LA jumpjet and ammo box then LA is starting to look like a one-man army?

Jump to a secluded roof, put down your ammo stash then retreat out of line of sight for 60 secs or so to regen after creaming 3 grunts in the CY. Perfect Sunday afternoon on Auraxis!

[captainkapautz]

Are you talking about regeneration now or game pace? Make up your mind, but in any event, health regen doesn't belong in any game regardless of whether it's BF3 or Awesome Shooter 2000.

If BF3 didn't exist, I would still say this.

Any proper reason for that?


Put slow-regen health together with LA jumpjet and ammo box then LA is starting to look like a one-man army?

Jump to a secluded roof, put down your ammo stash then retreat out of line of sight for 60 secs or so to regen after creaming 3 grunts in the CY. Perfect Sunday afternoon on Auraxis!

Don't tell me, I posted a while back that LA should NOT get the ammo.

[MrBloodworth]

And medkits and second wind too!!!!

Heath implant was required to be activated manually, and devastated your stamina.

Second wind ONLY activated IF you were damaged to 20%. any more, or any less and it did not trigger. More times than not, it did not fire off because 20% window is small.

Med kits took innovatory space, quite a bit as well.

[Coreldan]

Are you talking about regeneration now or game pace? Make up your mind, but in any event, health regen doesn't belong in any game regardless of whether it's BF3 or Awesome Shooter 2000.

If BF3 didn't exist, I would still say this.

That is your opinion, not an universal fact though.

I'm not a fan of regenerating health, but I can't say I was screaming out of joy when I've played fe. Planetside or Battlefield 3 on hardcore and end up having to run around with like 1 hp for 10 minutes until I actually die if either nobody is a medic or then the medics are just too lazy to do anything. Even more so on BF3 where you can't see shit anymore at low health.

Sadly, you can't really build a succesful game like this around organized teamplay only. You do have to think about the casuals too who may not have a designated medic in the squad healing them all the time. The game needs to be enjoyable to the masses.

As long as the time for the regeneration to start is fairly long and requires to be out of combat and the regeneration fairly slow, I don't mind that much. But all the better if it's a utility slot that seriously requires you to trade off something.

[captainkapautz]

That is your opinion, not an universal fact though.

I'm not a fan of regenerating health, but I can't say I was screaming out of joy when I've played fe. Planetside or Battlefield 3 on hardcore and end up having to run around with like 1 hp for 10 minutes until I actually die if either nobody is a medic or then the medics are just too lazy to do anything. Even more so on BF3 where you can't see shit anymore at low health.

Sadly, you can't really build a succesful game like this around organized teamplay only. You do have to think about the casuals too who may not have a designated medic in the squad healing them all the time. The game needs to be enjoyable to the masses.

As long as the time for the regeneration to start is fairly long and requires to be out of combat and the regeneration fairly slow, I don't mind that much. But all the better if it's a utility slot that seriously requires you to trade off something.

Ah, someone else who gets what I meant.

[Coreldan]

I looked at the regen times in this vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Q5YLKbuda0o Around the 11:30 spot

I found the following:

Time till shield starts recharging after taking damage for the last time: 10s
Time for shield to regen full after regen starts: 5s
Time for health regen to start after last damage is taken: 25s (so around 10s after shield is full)
Health to regen fully after regen starts: 15s

Total time to go from "zomg I'm dead" to a pristine soldier: approximately 40s.

However, at the end of the "scene" when he regens his health up suddenly fast and with odd chunks, there is a player running near/almost behind him, you can see him in the minimap a bit later (sadly quality isnt enough to tell much, but thats a friendly moving blip on the map), so it could be a medic. But in the worst case scenario, it's still gonna take you 40s of not taking damage to be back into a pristine soldier.

I do not find this as a very bad thing. Taking someone out for 40s even if you don't manage to kill em ain't bad. While not a totally working analogy, but in the earlier world wars it was much more efficient to wound a soldier than to kill him. You wound a soldier and two healthy soldiers have to drag him out of there + resources spent on the wounded soldier outside the field. You kill a soldier and he is left there until the battle ends, a wooden coffin wont cost much :D

That said, I wouldnt mind even if it was slower. I don't like health regen, but nor do I like forced to run around with 1hp until I die (which happens cos the shootout will never be fair in a game with TTK this high unless both are full health, unlike with "realistic damage models") if there are no medics around doing their job. At least the person who got me into that condition renderered me useless for over half a minute when I have to hide and regenerate health so I won't instantly die.

[Bobby Shaftoe]

Time.


That's funny, it also took quite some time for the regen implant to fully heal someone on low health, infact longer than combined shields/health regen being shown in PS2 gameplay clips, all of this while it only affected one 'hp pool' in PS1.

I know because I was one of the few people who used it @BR 20 because I didn't have the spare certs for Med. (zomg, someone who wasn't a super soldier! Yet had no problem with them)

[wasdie]

I can believe there is a health regen cert. Certing into health regen takes away from other certs you can have active, thus the balance.

I do think most of the videos there are just a lot of medics running around right now. No matter how hard they try, this E3 demo is not going to come close to representing what real gameplay will be like.

[Kalbuth]

Ah, someone else who gets what I meant.

Yes, it's called "catering to the lowest common denominator" and it's not always a wise choice.
I'm not discounting health regen entirely, I'm just trying to see the whole picture. And I've yet to test it anyway.

I'll try to re-explain better, because :Sorry, I don't understand what you are trying to say.

Are you comparing the current health regen in PS2 to PS1-style self sufficency?

One difference between health auto-regen system and no auto-regen system that hadn't been brought up so far in the discussion :
When you don't have an auto-regen system in place, and the healing system requires you or a 3rd party to use somme kind of ammo (repair juice, medkits, etc...) to heal you, you or the medic cannot do this indefinitely, because you or he will run out of heal ammo eventually.
It's not the case with a auto-regen system, you can stay on the field for an infinite time without preoccupying about refilling any "health ammo".

In the former case, you have to take care of your "supply chain" : how will I resupply my health ammo/medkits?
You need to take care of this before/during the fight, and it adds another dimension.
In PS1 terms, you need a nearby AMS, or adv hacker hacking a nearby terminal, or in case of generator holds, you need regular MAX rush from outside to inside with ammo in their inventory (if the gen hold is holding THAT long, usually the first rush in is done with MAXes who already have additionnal ammos in their inventory, and the gener-haters are dead before they need a resupply)

With an auto-regen.... poof! All this disappear. Everything gets easier, in fact. Again, "catering to the lowest common denominator".

I'd like to see some system which isn't hindering casuals from merely playing by making them unable to sustain a fight because they are 10% health after 20 seconds, all the while rewarding support classes (not only medic, but also the guys in charge of the supply chain for everyone).
I'd myself go for a "medkit-like" regen based on a medkit pool which is going down the more you use it, and which can be recharged, either by engies ammo kit, or some medical terminal a medic could drop in the field, providing supply for friendlies during large scale fights.
It could be auto-activated, after a period of X dozen of seconds after taking damage, until your pool is depleted.

This way, casuals can sustain more fights without hoping for the-medic-who-will-never-come, can resupply based on some fire-and-forget engie/medic ammo drop (which means, they don't need to wait for the good will of a medic around them at the time they are low on health), and you enhance the role of support players by adding a supply chain layer.
Probably a very perfectible system, it just popped out of my head :)

[CutterJohn]

I found the following:

Time till shield starts recharging after taking damage for the last time: 10s
Time for shield to regen full after regen starts: 5s
Time for health regen to start after last damage is taken: 25s (so around 10s after shield is full)
Health to regen fully after regen starts: 15s

To add to these, the regen for MAX units also starts at 25s, and(at least for NC), takes roughly 3 minutes to heal to full, at a rate of 1 bar of health every 4-5 seconds.

So nearly dead max to full max in 3:30, +- a few seconds.


Entirely reasonable, imo. Gives absolutely no in combat advantage, and is a rather painfully long time to sit back not being hit.

I think the light classes could safely be bumped up to a minute, minute and a half to get full. Thats still quite a long time to go without being shot.

[wasdie]

long rant...

Actually, health regeneration allows for a completely different style and pacing of FPS. You're applying health regen to how you perceive FPS, and obviously your perception is of older FPS games that wern't built around regenerating health.

What you should note about health regen is how much the gameplay is modified. First off the game is going to have a much more sustained high pace, something you cannot with standard health pickups. Just play CoD 4, the game is almost non-stop with the action and has ramped up each single campaign since 2007 with more and more action. MW3 was just 100% action more or less.

The second thing you'll see is a change in difficulty. The difficulty seems a bit easier up front because games in general no longer rely upon trial-and-error to lengthen them. Now they don't have to kill you constantly to buff up the game's length. There is actually more content in FPSs today than in the FPSs of yesteryear. Playing FPSs on their normal difficulty shouldn't prove very difficult to FPS vets as they don't have to kill you cheaply to lengthen the game and they are catered a bit more towards getting new players into the game. A core FPS vet shouldn't be playing modern FPSs on normal difficulty, you should be ramping it up to the harder difficulties right away. If you find that to easy, then you need to take into account that you're also far more experienced at playing FPSs than you were 10 years ago.

The gameplay surrounding games with regeneration health has been molded to fit the game mechanic. Games are way faster paced and throw a lot more content at you a lot quicker than ever before. It's just different and it's not bad thing.

It's not called catering the the lowest denominator in games today, it's a whole different approach that allows for different gameplay.

As for how it applies to Planetside 2, DICE figured out back in BF2 that people hate running around a map with 2% health waiting to die. People would rather just get themselves killed and respawn than wait for a medic to health them.

The same mentality is going to apply to Planetside 2. You're bringing up the idea of supply chains which is completely out of context of Planetside 2's general gameplay. Just watch the videos, it's not some slow paced game where people are moving together in small, coordinated teams for 10+ minutes at a time. Spawns have been moved much closer to the action. The game is about getting to the big fight and sustaining these large fights. The supply chain concept doesn't apply here as the average solider will elect to just get themselves blown away instead of waiting for a medic to health them as dying doesn't seem to have that negative of an effect.

The MAX's are the only infantry class that this supply chain may work for because they are the only ones worth keeping alive.

So basically, you're not looking at health regen in the context of what we've already seen. It's probably a cert, so you're denying yourself some other gameplay element to get it, and even if it is not, 40 seconds for full health regen is pretty damn significant and will slow the pace of the game down considerably compared to contemporary FPSs like BF3 and CoD where health regen happens in under 20 seconds.

This game isn't being built for the niche that PS1 catered to, it has to appeal to a broader audience. If you call that the lowest common denominator then there is really no reasoning with you.

[Redshift]

In case people forgot, we had health regen in PS1 with certain cave mods..... no one gave a shit, because ultimatley it was too slow to make any difference.

You can have your entire army rely on passive regen if you want, but you'll get dicked on by the first squad with a medic. Medics will always increase the amount of uptime of your troops. PAssive regen would have to be massivly high to have any real effect on that.

[Bobby Shaftoe]

cave mods.

Something you had to actually work for to get and applied in a linked base SOI only.

Something that could be denied or even stolen from you, providing another number of tactical/strategic opportunities for you to play to.

The game is being tailored for a broader audience BECAUSE they share a common denominator.

That's the very definition, many people may share MMO as their denominators, not as many people have MMO+FPS+Tactical+Strategy as their denominators.

Just go look at some Venn Diagrams/Boolean Operators

[Redshift]

Something you had to actually work for to get and applied in a linked base SOI only.


Yea but my point is you never raged about the regen being over powered. It started instantly and yet no one ever cared about it. Unless it's stupidly fast it won't effect anything.

Going on the numbers someone posted above a full regen takes 40 seconds on hiding in a corner. If we say a medic heals in 10 seconds (and that seems like too long imo) a medic improves the uptime of a group 4 fold. You'll never notice that regen at all.

If someone wants to hide in a corner for 40 seconds it's not very different to healing yourself up in PS1, but your team is going to suffer because of it.

[Coreldan]

To add to these, the regen for MAX units also starts at 25s, and(at least for NC), takes roughly 3 minutes to heal to full, at a rate of 1 bar of health every 4-5 seconds.

So nearly dead max to full max in 3:30, +- a few seconds.


Entirely reasonable, imo. Gives absolutely no in combat advantage, and is a rather painfully long time to sit back not being hit.

I think the light classes could safely be bumped up to a minute, minute and a half to get full. Thats still quite a long time to go without being shot.

Word, brotha.

[wasdie]

Yea but my point is you never raged about the regen being over powered. It started instantly and yet no one ever cared about it. Unless it's stupidly fast it won't effect anything.

Going on the numbers someone posted above a full regen takes 40 seconds on hiding in a corner. If we say a medic heals in 10 seconds (and that seems like too long imo) a medic improves the uptime of a group 4 fold. You'll never notice that regen at all.

If someone wants to hide in a corner for 40 seconds it's not very different to healing yourself up in PS1, but your team is going to suffer because of it.

Add that to the pace of the game, 40 seconds will leave you behind. If the whole squad waits for you, that's a significant portion of time they've wasted and let the defenders or attackers get the edge.

[Bobby Shaftoe]

Yea but my point is you never raged about the regen being over powered. It started instantly and yet no one ever cared about it. Unless it's stupidly fast it won't effect anything.

Going on the numbers someone posted above a full regen takes 40 seconds on hiding in a corner. If we say a medic heals in 10 seconds (and that seems like too long imo) a medic improves the uptime of a group 4 fold. You'll never notice that regen at all.

If someone wants to hide in a corner for 40 seconds it's not very different to healing yourself up in PS1, but your team is going to suffer because of it.

Yes and I also never raged that med/eng was overpowered because you were vulnerable whilst doing so, I'm merely pointing out how inconsitent/hypocritical all those people who ARE whining about self heals in PS1 are being when there's a self heal mechanic that doesn't even require you to do anything, to kick in.

It's all about the tactical decisions made by the player: Do I have time to heal/rep, am I safe, is there a cloaker about, do I go hack the terminal/console now and maybe die, or get max life/armour again and then go for the cap.
Now, oh i'll let regen kick in whilst I cap.

[MrBloodworth]

It's all about the tactical decisions made by the player: Do I have time to heal/rep, am I safe, is there a cloaker about, do I go hack the terminal/console now and maybe die, or get max life/armour again and then go for the cap.
Now, oh i'll let regen kick in whilst I cap.

This is the issue for me as well.

[Bobby Shaftoe]

So nearly dead max to full max in 3:30, +- a few seconds.

Whilst in PS1 a nearly dead max... was still, a nearly dead MAX 3:30 later.

[Coreldan]

Whilst in PS1 a nearly dead max... was still, a nearly dead MAX 3:30 later.

Yes, and the question is.. is that a good design?

[MrBloodworth]

Yes, and the question is.. is that a good design?

Yes. For a war game. No, for a session based shooter.

[Kalbuth]

...

Ouch!
"There is actually more content in FPSs today than in the FPSs of yesteryear"
[...]
"throw a lot more content at you"
Really, ouch!
I don't know how I should interpret this.
What content, exactly? Single player things? Awww, yes, there's perhaps more scenes, moving objects, artwork, surrounding you in today's FPS.
There's less challenge, in the other hand, because games apparently should cater to people that cannot stand a challenge.
BF3 & consorts (and mind you, I like BF3) singleplayer today is a kind of movie where devs sometimes gives you control (but the scene as a whole won't change). Not much more.
You can call that "more content".
If it's more multiplayer content, please, list it.

There are tons of games far faster than so called realistic CoD/BF where devs managed to challenge players by making them plan their game on the fly. Planning, support, isn't antinomian to fast gameplay.

Your description of perfect modern game looks like this to me : Spawn, rush (or be late), spamspamspam, die, rince, repeat. Thinking about what you're going to do, doing anything else that shooting, is apparently prohibited. The faster you go, the faster you gain ground, that's how you win.

Just a point : having support classes in game isn't going to make the mindless zergling gameplay to disappear. It's not a threat to your precious fast gameplay (btw, no, CoD isn't fast)

[Coreldan]

Yes. For a war game. No, for a session based shooter.

I don't baseline agree.

"War game" and "session based shooters" arnt really different in this manner. You are gonna be equally pissed off about having to run with 1 hp in both types of games. The fact that one game is persistant while the other isn't has sort of very little to do with this exact topic, if you ask me. Maybe if the sessions were truely short enough that the thing would be irrelevant, but that's rarely the case in say.. BF3.

But I once again want to say that I'm not the number 1 advocate for health regen. I don't like it, but it annoys me less than being forced to run around with no health for potentially very long times. I find myself cursing that in games more often than the fact they would have some sort of slow health regen.

[Redshift]

Now, oh i'll let regen kick in whilst I cap.

There's still no decision though. With medics as their own class this time round you're either a medic, in which case you can choose to heal yourself or you're not a medic in which case you hack the term. This would not change regardless of the OOC heal or not.

The OOC heal has little to no effect on combat.

[Rbstr]

I think we need health anti-regen.
If you get shot without your shield you just bleed health until you die. Medics may apply bandages, but you have to go visit the hospital for several months afterward.

This will be more fun, think of all the additional teamplay the doctor class will bring!

[CutterJohn]

Whilst in PS1 a nearly dead max... was still, a nearly dead MAX 3:30 later.

It was the only unit in the game that was unable to effect self repairs in any capacity, except for the repair pads that were extremely inconveniently located. All infantry could heal/rep, or just swap kit for free. All vehicle drivers had eng, plus lodes/pads/etc sprinkled around liberally.


In fact.. Someone describe to be in explicit detail the difference between self repair and drivers being engy.

[Neksar]

Wasdie has brought to light some very interesting points. You can call it the "lowest common denominator" if you want, but do realize that what's happening here is the same thing that happens with music, or any other entertainment medium. You're basically saying the current generation's stuff sucks, and the older stuff did it better.

Now, I'm all for enjoying Led Zeppelin, Ozzy, AC/DC, and a bunch of other artists that are these days considered dated, but in the end the newer stuff is going to be popular with a younger generation, and I'll still have my older stuff to enjoy. Hell, I find some newer stuff that I've enjoyed. Never thought I'd like any synthetic music, but there's been dubstep I've enjoyed as well.

I am rambling, but my point is this: gaming has moved forward, and the new stuff is not the same as the old, but that doesn't make it bad. The "lowest common denominator" that everyone refers to is going to be complaining about gaming trends in the next 10 years, and that's just something they're going to have to deal with too. Asking them to basically reskin the old Planetside is akin to saying, "Why aren't there more artists like Warrant these days?"

Back on topic, I think the length of time it takes to heal to full has struck a nice balance between the necessity of regenerating health to keep players in the fight, and the tradeoff for how long it takes to get back in. Personally, I will likely duck behind cover only to wait for my shields before poking my head out again, and I'd prefer it if shield regen was noticeably faster than health regen. Make one slower or the other faster; either'd probably work.

[Bobby Shaftoe]

Yes, and the question is.. is that a good design?

After the massive increase in cert points and unimax bundles, I'm pretty happy that I didn't have to face regenerating Splat MAXs.

It's so bizarre, all the 'super soldier' whiners want to remove self healing, yet they're fine with auto regenerating shields and health and also give it to a class that never did it in the first place! The most support reliant class, now, doesn't have to have any support!

Do you not even see how ridiculous this all is?

[MrBloodworth]

In fact.. Someone describe to be in explicit detail the difference between self repair and drivers being engy.

Windows of opportunity, risk, required exposure of the driver, required Materiel ( Not a misspelling for those that never served ).

[CutterJohn]

The most support reliant class, now, doesn't have to have any support!

Do you not even see how ridiculous this all is?

Go sit somewhere for 3 minutes and 30 seconds and don't get shot.

That is what is required to heal the max through regen. Thats a long, long time.


An engy will heal it in 1/4 or less of the time. Support is extremely valuable. Its just not the only option anymore.



Windows of opportunity, risk, required exposure of the driver, required Materiel ( Not a misspelling for those that never served ).


25s not being shot, stops if shot, so that covers the window of opportunity.

MAXs have plenty of space to store glue, though I don't think glue exists anymore.

You were never terribly exposed in PS1 since you could instantly jump on board if shot at, the animation being an invulnerable period. Only instakill would get you. Same applies to PS2.

Risk is an acceptable difference, since you can stay on the move and active/alert to threats.

So since its not as risky, it seems fair that its far slower. :)

[Xyntech]

After the massive increase in cert points and unimax bundles, I'm pretty happy that I didn't have to face regenerating Splat MAXs.

It's so bizarre, all the 'super soldier' whiners want to remove self healing, yet they're fine with auto regenerating shields and health and also give it to a class that never did it in the first place! The most support reliant class, now, doesn't have to have any support!

Do you not even see how ridiculous this all is?

People keep explaining, but you don't want to hear it. I don't care if you disagree, but it's pathetic to not even acknowledge a legitimate different opinion.

Having a medical applicator had what trade off in your loadout? A worthless pistol, or perhaps a small box of ammo at most. That is a very small price to pay. If regenerating health is one of several options in PS2, you may have to give up something a lot more valuable than a small amount of ammo. Oh, and you can't revive players either, kind of a big deal not to have that option just thrown to every player.

I'm not even a super soldier whiner, but I can see the value in separating key support roles from being able to be combined into a single soldier. Regenerating health on the other hand is a personal item, not a support item, and can easily be balanced to be inferior to having a team supporting you.

[Coreldan]

In 3mins 30 seconds, you wouldve been better off just dying, taking a new MAX armor and be back in the field almost faster (naturally depending where fight takes place, etc) :D

[Masahiko]

Health for Stamina - What's the tradeoff this time?

All of the other stuff we have no idea about because we havent played the game but are instead knee-jerking over because we saw it on a stream

[Redshift]

I'm pretty happy that I didn't have to face regenerating Splat MAXs.


This would only be valid if the splattermaxes never had engineers with them in PS1, or if you couldn't hit them at least once every 45 seconds.

Otherwise it makes no difference

[Bobby Shaftoe]

The OOC heal has little to no effect on combat.

EXACTLY, jesus, this is the very point I expound upon yet everyone else says 'hurr super soldiers' OP, they can heal OOC.

Regenerating shields and health are directly equivalent to the med app/eng tool, yet they say in PS1 it's bad whilst PS2 is good, despite the end result being the very same god damn thing!

Christ, it's like the monty python arguement skit, but there's not even 2 people, it's just them having the same contradictory back'n'forth and not even seeing a problem with it!

[Kalbuth]

Wasdie has brought to light some very interesting points. You can call it the "lowest common denominator" if you want, but do realize that what's happening here is the same thing that happens with music, or any other entertainment medium. You're basically saying the current generation's stuff sucks, and the older stuff did it better.

Now, I'm all for enjoying Led Zeppelin, Ozzy, AC/DC, and a bunch of other artists that are these days considered dated, but in the end the newer stuff is going to be popular with a younger generation, and I'll still have my older stuff to enjoy. Hell, I find some newer stuff that I've enjoyed. Never thought I'd like any synthetic music, but there's been dubstep I've enjoyed as well.

I am rambling, but my point is this: gaming has moved forward, and the new stuff is not the same as the old, but that doesn't make it bad. The "lowest common denominator" that everyone refers to is going to be complaining about gaming trends in the next 10 years, and that's just something they're going to have to deal with too. Asking them to basically reskin the old Planetside is akin to saying, "Why aren't there more artists like Warrant these days?"

Back on topic, I think the length of time it takes to heal to full has struck a nice balance between the necessity of regenerating health to keep players in the fight, and the tradeoff for how long it takes to get back in. Personally, I will likely duck behind cover only to wait for my shields before poking my head out again, and I'd prefer it if shield regen was noticeably faster than health regen. Make one slower or the other faster; either'd probably work.

Unfortunately he seems to miss the whole scale brought up by Planetside. Applying CoD-only scheme to it is bound to fail, too spammy, too chaotic.
PS2 is something new.
Like I said, having supply, support and such isn't going to kill the "fast paced" element.

[Redshift]

Regenerating shields and health are directly equivalent to the med app/eng tool, yet they say in PS1 it's bad whilst PS2 is good,

Actually i've never said med/eng was a bad thing. It makes no difference since everyone had it anyway. What we do have is a medic who now has an in combat heal, which is far superior to running off to hide every 20 seconds.

[CutterJohn]

EXACTLY, jesus, this is the very point I expound upon yet everyone else says 'hurr super soldiers' OP, they can heal OOC.

Regenerating shields and health are directly equivalent to the med app/eng tool, yet they say in PS1 it's bad whilst PS2 is good, despite the end result being the very same god damn thing!

Christ, it's like the monty python arguement skit, but there's not even 2 people, it's just them having the same contradictory back'n'forth and not even seeing a problem with it!

To answer why the two aren't seen as equivalent requires noticing that the two aren't, in fact, equivalent.

Healing up over 40s+ while out of combat is not the same as healing up over 10s while out of combat. Regen is not as good as having support. Not even close. But its nice to have all the same.

[Neksar]

Another part of the problem with everyone and their mother having a medical applicator and BANK was that players who were a low BR did not have them. This is the logical conclusion of a freeform class system that allowed people to have those things in any loadout except MAX suits; a new player was all but helpless when the asshats with berets refused to heal anyone but themselves.

Freeform class customization was created likely with the intent that players would specialize on their own. The stream of complaints about "super soldiers" shows that it was obviously not the case, hence the class system we see now, and the regenerating health (that takes a Long-Ass Time (tm) compared to other modern shooters) that levels the playing field for people without a medic in their pocket at all times.

This regeneration needs to be there for this game to have adequate pacing for non-medic players, especially with TTKs being what they are. Medics will be incredibly useful, but now they won't be absolutely required to poke your head out of cover for more than a couple seconds without being reduced to uselessness by being stuck at nearly empty health.

[Malorn]

Why is this a bad thing? I see it as good.

There was a regen implant in PS1. It was not nearly as good as a med tool and it was slow, but still nice for healing minor damage and very inconvenient for heavy damage.

Natural healing is fine so long as it doesnt render medics meaningless. Its actually good for medics, who shoulnt be required for every cut and scrape so they can focus more on revives and badly wounded soldiers. Same reason MAX healing is good for engineers.

It isnt a medic or engineer's job to follow someone around like a team fortress 2 doctor with the sole purpose of perpetual healing. They should be able to do other things and switch to heals and revives when necessary, not every time some idiot takes minor damage.

Healing is also good because it doesnt mandate the presence of a medic or engineer. If you have a small squad it is nice to not have to say - damn we only have 3 guys, so one of you is a medic, and one is an engineer. That would suck. Flexibility is a good thing, but lime everything it is a tradeoff. No medic? No revives and slow healing. No engineer? MAX will have a harder timer, but they arent useless.

[Eyeklops]

OK. As to the comments about the Health Regen implant in PS1, it was only really useful for cloakers. Having the Health Regen implant free'd up the space used by the medapp in inventory. Which for a cloaker was extremely useful depending upon loadout. The implant had it's useful niche.

As far as PS2 regen. I am not sure how the mechanic worked. As long as the duration is set correctly it will rarely change the outcome for the front line players. Again, this will probably only be useful for cloakers who sneak behind enemy lines where support is not available.

In regards to BF3. Why do so many people forget about hardcore mode? In hardcore there is no health regen, no ammo/clip indicator, and no 3D spotting. Hell, I liked BC2 hardcore even better because it took away the map as well. So for all the people saying that BF3 is dumbed down..it may be in some ways, but playing on hardcore mode is well...fucking hard.

[Memeotis]

A slow health regen that starts after 60 seconds of not being hit. This way, players are not dependent on medics to a stupid extent. And since it starts this late, this health regen will NEVER have an impact on the actual engagements.

[Bobby Shaftoe]

Actually i've never said med/eng was a bad thing. It makes no difference since everyone had it anyway. What we do have is a medic who now has an in combat heal, which is far superior to running off to hide every 20 seconds.

Yes, in combat heals which now slow combat down, it's not just this in isolation, it's the whole fucking edifice of certs/regen/3way map and in taking the flawed end implementation of certs via bundles and BR40 and free certs such as AMS/RExo (viz super soldiers, which weren't possible with BR20) and using that as the basis of their arguements instead of the original implementations.

Premise: PS1 combat was slow
Solution: Reduce weapon TTKs

They then mitigate this with getting heals in combat, forced ADS for anything past 10 metres, 'slow' regen instead of quick self healing(requiring certain circumstances), forced 'teamwork' viz pocket medics etc etc.

Healing over 40 seconds is worse then 10 you say? Except you don't have any mobility issues, vulnerability (past the low hp) due to not having weapons out. Not only that, in PS2 shields and health are the same thing, PS1 you had to fix both armour AND health. PS2 your shield is back up in the time it took you to get into cover and equip your first item.

People keep explaining, but you don't want to hear it.
People state self sustain in PS1 was bad because everyone could do it (cept maxs), yet it is still in PS2 and everyone can do it inc. MAXs and it's ok?

I'm fine with it in PS1, I'm fine with it in PS2, you all hated it in PS1 yet seem to think because you don't have to spend 6 certs, 2 holster slots, perform serveral actions and instead wait a little time, it's fine in PS2, the mechanics of it have changed but it's still getting back to 100% after taking damage.

a low BR did not have them.
And how is this different in PS2 with a low BR against a vet who actually has a better weapon than them now?

[Spoof]

Originally I was sceptical, but I think it's a good idea. In PS1 everyone took medic so they could self heal, and the best fights where those where you sought cover to heal up and keep pushing.

I feared the transition to a medic class would break that, but the health regen makes it valid tactic again.

Reason why I say this is because that if your dueling with a guy then he can just run away and heal up fully. I don't think that's what the game should be encouraging this attack and retreat style.

What has duelling got to do with Planetside? You're a long way from the heart and soul of Planetside if you find yourself concerned with duelling.

Furthermore, it kind of makes medics less worthwhile...

Not at all. With regen you flee and seek cover, but with a medic you stay and fight, and can be revived if you fall. That's a tactical difference that makes medics invaluable.

[Anderz]

Cap the regeneration to something like 70% health. That way, it still gives snipers assist points if they hit a body shot at range and the enemy runs away. It also makes medics important, but not vital.

[Malorn]

How about we not make silly balance claims from looking at a demo that was clearly set up specifically for creating a fun session shooter for good E3 enjoyment and publicity.

Much of the mechanics we see here may be specifically for the demo. Wait a bit longer for beta, actually play the game for a bit, and then cone back with meaningful feedback.

[wasdie]

Unfortunately he seems to miss the whole scale brought up by Planetside. Applying CoD-only scheme to it is bound to fail, too spammy, too chaotic.
PS2 is something new.
Like I said, having supply, support and such isn't going to kill the "fast paced" element.

Not at all, im feeding off what I see from the videos. I've specifically said that they've moved spawn points closer and it's easier to get into the battle then in Planetside 1.

Having micro supply and support blanked the infantry game across the board would kill the "fast paced" element pretty quickly. You're scheme revolves around pretty dedicated individuals playing support. Playing any FPS in the past 10 year has shown me that the average gamer does not care about that (try getting some ammo from a support in BF3). You can get some pretty dedicated groups of course, but when your target isn't a small niche audience, it's best to not burden the general gameplay with things that only a handful of people will find enjoyable.

It's an unnecessary distraction from this game. There are plenty of other teamwork oriented gameplay elements here that can be focused on which do not detract from the average lone-wolf game experience. Instead they enhance the game for those who choose to work as a very well coordinated team.

That's gameplay in 2012. You can't satisfy everybody, but you can satisfy the middle standard deviations. You're always going to have people who want everything taken to the next level because they have a belief that this more "hardcore" element is going to be better.

The health regen could just be a cert, we don't know. Even if it isn't, it's still much longer than your average and I'll bet you that it gets tweaked depending on player feedback and what they observe during beta. Health regen in a large scale FPS like this gets rid of many annoyances. Being stuck out in the middle of nowhere with no health and no ability to heal yourself (as it looks like those have been taken out) is going to happen quite a bit here if there is no health regen. I already brought up the point that PS2 has a faster pace than PS1 and that this pace dictates a different direction in how health is going to be handled.

From the gameplay, things like momentum and really micro-level squad tactics mean a lot more than they did before. Medics on the frontline healing people very quickly, people getting gunned down much quicker, the frontlines moving at a much faster pace. This is being integrated well with the large scale but a lot of the infantry play from PS1 has had to be adapted to fit the pace. Given the general trend of how people act in FPSs today and this increase paced, I can guess that most people will just rambo to their deaths instead of waiting for a medic to stroll on by. Unless getting back into the fight takes a significant effort (which it doesn't anymore), forcing people to stop and wait for a medic will result in a lower player retention.

You can throw up artificial barriers to make a game more difficult/annoying and require more teamwork, or you could make working as a team have more advantages so people do it for the rewards, not because they are forced. Nobody will be taking an objective by themselves in this game. Pure lone wolfing won't happen, so don't worry about that. However, putting people in a fast paced shooting environment then punching them in the gut every time they get into a firefight all in the sake of tradition and being "hardcore" is just going to be annoying to the average player. Give them intensive to work as a team. Make them feel like a solider alone yet part of a mighty army when they work together. Don't make them feel weak and insignificant.

[Dreamcast]

The funny thing is I bet the people crying about this are the same people in Planetside 1 who healed themselves everytime they got shot......

They were probably against classes too when it came out.


So Planetside 2, has a slow as hell health regen....Which is way better than Planetside 1 where most people just healed themselves pretty damn fast since a lot of people had medic cert....and you guys are crying?....lol



This a huge improvement over Planetside 1.....The only reason people are hating because Health Regeneration is associated with Battlefield and Call of duty.



Fact is Medics will be way more valuable in planetside 2 than in Planetside 1.....where most people were medics with snipers/heavy assults etc and instantly healed themselves when shot.......so don't say it ruins the medic in Planetside 2 lol.



Devaluing medics LMAO.....Planetside 2 enhance them with classes.



BTW 1:18 to 1:56......Thats how much it took to go to full health, thats 38 seconds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-4AePpza-4

I guess thats too much for planetside vets...they need to be able to heal our selves at 15 seconds or something.

[sylphaen]

If you have a small squad it is nice to not have to say - damn we only have 3 guys, so one of you is a medic, and one is an engineer.

Good point.

[Baneblade]

If you don't want someone regenerating, shoot them.

[MrBloodworth]

If you don't want someone regenerating, shoot them.

That already happened!

[CutterJohn]

That already happened!

Obviously not enough. :groovy:

[The Janitor]

Yeah, just make sure you kill people when you shoot them. I never had a problem with health regen since, you know, you can't regen while you're getting bullets to the face.

[infinite loop]

Not at all, im feeding off what I see from the videos. I've specifically said that they've moved spawn points closer and it's easier to get into the battle then in Planetside 1.

Having micro supply and support blanked the infantry game across the board would kill the "fast paced" element pretty quickly. You're scheme revolves around pretty dedicated individuals playing support. Playing any FPS in the past 10 year has shown me that the average gamer does not care about that (try getting some ammo from a support in BF3). You can get some pretty dedicated groups of course, but when your target isn't a small niche audience, it's best to not burden the general gameplay with things that only a handful of people will find enjoyable.

It's an unnecessary distraction from this game. There are plenty of other teamwork oriented gameplay elements here that can be focused on which do not detract from the average lone-wolf game experience. Instead they enhance the game for those who choose to work as a very well coordinated team.

That's gameplay in 2012. You can't satisfy everybody, but you can satisfy the middle standard deviations. You're always going to have people who want everything taken to the next level because they have a belief that this more "hardcore" element is going to be better.

The health regen could just be a cert, we don't know. Even if it isn't, it's still much longer than your average and I'll bet you that it gets tweaked depending on player feedback and what they observe during beta. Health regen in a large scale FPS like this gets rid of many annoyances. Being stuck out in the middle of nowhere with no health and no ability to heal yourself (as it looks like those have been taken out) is going to happen quite a bit here if there is no health regen. I already brought up the point that PS2 has a faster pace than PS1 and that this pace dictates a different direction in how health is going to be handled.

From the gameplay, things like momentum and really micro-level squad tactics mean a lot more than they did before. Medics on the frontline healing people very quickly, people getting gunned down much quicker, the frontlines moving at a much faster pace. This is being integrated well with the large scale but a lot of the infantry play from PS1 has had to be adapted to fit the pace. Given the general trend of how people act in FPSs today and this increase paced, I can guess that most people will just rambo to their deaths instead of waiting for a medic to stroll on by. Unless getting back into the fight takes a significant effort (which it doesn't anymore), forcing people to stop and wait for a medic will result in a lower player retention.

You can throw up artificial barriers to make a game more difficult/annoying and require more teamwork, or you could make working as a team have more advantages so people do it for the rewards, not because they are forced. Nobody will be taking an objective by themselves in this game. Pure lone wolfing won't happen, so don't worry about that. However, putting people in a fast paced shooting environment then punching them in the gut every time they get into a firefight all in the sake of tradition and being "hardcore" is just going to be annoying to the average player. Give them intensive to work as a team. Make them feel like a solider alone yet part of a mighty army when they work together. Don't make them feel weak and insignificant.

Great post, really hits the important reasons for this to exist in a modern fps. Anti-fun or annoying mechanics need to be reduced or prevented as much as possible. We need casual players to get hooked to grow the playerbase, and tedium won't attract them.

[KTNApollo]

MAXs could drive vehicles in the demo. I'm sure some of the mechanics were tinkered with to make the demo better for first time players.

[wasdie]

Great post, really hits the important reasons for this to exist in a modern fps. Anti-fun or annoying mechanics need to be reduced or prevented as much as possible. We need casual players to get hooked to grow the playerbase, and tedium won't attract them.

Tedium is often associated with "hardcore" and that's just wrong. Something that is tedious shouldn't be labeled hardcore for the sake of it being tedious and people who don't want to do that aren't instantly casual CoD noobs who just want to get easy kill. Something that is "hardcore" in the terms of a gameplay element is something that requires more thought, strategy, or skill. A good hardcore element engages the users as much as it challenges them, not just challenges them or bores them through some tedious cycle. Older game design often fell prey to a lot of tedious elements due to technological limitations or a different perspective on what makes games fun.

Modern games don't suffer from that. In order for PS2 to appeal to the widest audience out there, they need to make sure that the meta-game requires skill and strategy but the micro-game doesn't suffer from tedium. Let the two work together seamlessly with players being able to enjoy the game on whatever level they take an interest in.

There should be room for the Rambo MAX and the Galaxy pilot that got them there. It's not an easy task, but I think the PS2 team knows what they are doing and are heading in the right direction. The changes to the map, the upgrade to the infantry play, but the depth in the character customization and changes to the logistics will all move this game in a better direction and appeal to a much broader audience and only alienate a small portion of the hardcore fanbase.

Let's be honest, there are some people here who will just not be happy. As long as they stay the vocal minority, the team is doing a good job.

[captainkapautz]

In regards to BF3. Why do so many people forget about hardcore mode? In hardcore there is no health regen, no ammo/clip indicator, and no 3D spotting. Hell, I liked BC2 hardcore even better because it took away the map as well. So for all the people saying that BF3 is dumbed down..it may be in some ways, but playing on hardcore mode is well...fucking hard.

No, it's BF3, so it's bad and dumbed down by definition.

If you don't want someone regenerating, shoot them.

That's a preposterous notion.

[infinite loop]

Tedium is often associated with "hardcore" and that's just wrong. Something that is "hardcore" in the terms of a gameplay element is something that requires more thought, strategy, or skill. A good hardcore element engages the users as much as it challenges them, not just challenges them or bores them through some tedious cycle. Older game design often fell prey to a lot of tedious elements due to technological limitations or a different perspective on what makes games fun.

Modern games don't suffer from that. In order for PS2 to appeal to the widest audience out there, they need to make sure that the meta-game requires skill and strategy but the micro-game doesn't suffer from tedium. Let the two work together seamlessly with players being able to enjoy the game on whatever level they take an interest in.

There should be room for the Rambo MAX and the Galaxy pilot that got them there. It's not an easy task, but I think the PS2 team knows what they are doing and are heading in the right direction. The changes to the map, the upgrade to the infantry play, but the depth in the character customization and changes to the logistics will all move this game in a better direction and appeal to a much broader audience and only alienate a small portion of the hardcore fanbase.

Let's be honest, there are some people here who will just not be happy. As long as they stay the vocal minority, the team is doing a good job.

Sadly I fear that the most hardcore PS fans who continued playing over the years are in for a rude awakening. There are plenty of reasons that very few people played PS over the last 6-7 years, many of which it is looking like are being handled in PS2. I hope the hardcores will find a way to enjoy the more modernized version regardless.

[EVILoHOMER]

Having regen health doesn't mean dumbed down and especially the way BF3 did it where medics are still useful because it's slow. The only thing it means is you can solo the game and not need other people to have fun and I don't see the problem with this.

I was one of those Planetside players who played solo but would join random people as I came across them and helped them too. Also you have to remember you might not be able to be a soldier who can repair and heal himself like you could in Planetside. Which I might add is the dumber mechanic and slow regen health...

I like being a solo player who joins other players as I come across them. I don't like being involved in corps and organising the whole Galaxy drop thing. For some people that is fun but for me it takes too long to get into the action and normally by the time you get it all set up, people often leave for dinner or whatever lol.

So slow regen health means I can play alone and not have to run around finding a medic all the time. However if there is a medic around to heal me then great, it's faster and gets me in the action faster or even revive me.


No problem with it now stop whining!

[stargazer093]

just thinking, in this case, could a health system like mass effect 3 tweak the health regeneration and medic? which you have five smaller health bars, if one of them is gone and the second one is about half full, 20 secs later health will only regenerate to fill until the second bar. in order to get all the health bars full, you`ll need medic or medic terminal or whatever to patch you up:groovy:

[The Kush]

Hehe, you dorks. It's for the sake of the new playtesters at E3. They added in a lot of stuff they are removing after E3 so the game goes over better with those greenhorns with their heads cut off trying to find the next guy to kill.

So don't worry and relax, regenerating health will most likely be gone. Shields regen, health does not.

I think I heard Clegg say they had features in just for E3, so I do know for a fact many of the negative features were just for show.

Hopefully this

[Nasher]

tbh MAXes are the only ones who should regen health. In PS1 they were more squishy than regular armour a lot of the time due to the amount of anti-vehicle weapons flying around. You would last 3 seconds out in the open :/

[Drakkonan]

All the arguments for health regen are so awful. We're going to end up with a big group of people at full health, and a big group of corpses, with nothing in between. You could argue that this would occur regardless of the existence of regen, but with health regen kicking in after only 25 seconds, the chance of a medic running into one of the very few players that actually has depleted health is reduced even more.

You can't effectively heal someone while they're taking shots, so the only opportunity to heal is during breaks in the action. But very rarely are you going to encounter a break that is long enough to heal, but not long enough for health regen to kick in.

The shields serve their purpose. To get people back in the action without having to wait around for an engineer to repair them. I don't see what purpose regenerating health serves other than a 'backup' shield.

[Xyntech]

We're going to end up with a big group of people at full health, and a big group of corpses, with nothing in between.

Corpses? Sounds like a job for a medic.

[sylphaen]

Corpses? Sounds like a job for a medic.

VANU, GIVE US THE POWEEEEEER ! TO BRING THEM BACK FROM THE DEAAAAAD !
*brain sucking sounds*
:rolleyes:

Do we get Roleplay servers btw ? Or has the brainwash gone already too far for that to be necessary ?
:lol:

[Inverness]

just thinking, in this case, could a health system like mass effect 3 tweak the health regeneration and medic? which you have five smaller health bars, if one of them is gone and the second one is about half full, 20 secs later health will only regenerate to fill until the second bar. in order to get all the health bars full, you`ll need medic or medic terminal or whatever to patch you up:groovy:This seems like a good thing to consider. I can certainly see how having multiple health bars can factor into all kinds of things. You could have small med packs that fill up one bar or large med packs to fill up all of them.

You could have a cert to increase rate of regen for a bar, but not the number of bars (which would make things a bit too unbalanced I think). Only medics might have an additional bar or something and be the only class that can regenerate all their bars instead of just one. Having multiple bars like this would also simplify status displays for other people in your squad and such since you could just use 4 small squares or bars on squad display to show health percentage.

Just some ideas.

[Reapter]

The funny thing is I bet the people crying about this are the same people in Planetside 1 who healed themselves everytime they got shot......

They were probably against classes too when it came out.

So Planetside 2, has a slow as hell health regen....Which is way better than Planetside 1 where most people just healed themselves pretty damn fast since a lot of people had medic cert....and you guys are crying?....lol

This a huge improvement over Planetside 1.....The only reason people are hating because Health Regeneration is associated with Battlefield and Call of duty.

Fact is Medics will be way more valuable in planetside 2 than in Planetside 1.....where most people were medics with snipers/heavy assults etc and instantly healed themselves when shot.......so don't say it ruins the medic in Planetside 2 lol.

Devaluing medics LMAO.....Planetside 2 enhance them with classes.

BTW 1:18 to 1:56......Thats how much it took to go to full health, thats 38 seconds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-4AePpza-4

I guess thats too much for planetside vets...they need to be able to heal our selves at 15 seconds or something.

This. Although I am sure there are a few who doesn't recognize that having a medic is better then just sitting still for long periods of time or better then being by there self.

[Immigrant]

just thinking, in this case, could a health system like mass effect 3 tweak the health regeneration and medic? which you have five smaller health bars, if one of them is gone and the second one is about half full, 20 secs later health will only regenerate to fill until the second bar. in order to get all the health bars full, you`ll need medic or medic terminal or whatever to patch you up:groovy:

This is very good idea imo. I don't like health regen as it is currently. Available by implant - ok, but as default thing - bad. What's the point of the personal shields then anyway if they were meant as a middle solution between HP regenerating and not regenerating?

edit: Hopefully that's only an E3 build thing.

[Baneblade]

As to the comments about the Health Regen implant in PS1, it was only really useful for cloakers.

And MAXes and Vehicle Drivers.


Because of that Mutha Cleggin Radiator.

[meiam]

Well the thing not having it would educate player, this is F2P so people with no idea of what exactly is planetside all about will start playing the game. Now they'll get in a fire fight, lose some health, then hide in a corner and notice that there health isn't coming back, so that'll push to thinking:

1) Well I don't want to be in this kind of situation, maybe I should stick around with some people so they can heal me. Teach basic grouping skill.

2) Well I better make I sure I know where is the closest area were I can regen health and make sure to secure it. Teach them to make sure to know where stuff are on the map so they can easily get to a healing station.

3) Stop playing because if they want a game where all they need to do is shoot, stop, rinse and repeat, then PS2 isn't what they want. In fact with health regen it could lead to a bunch of people just playing it like any modern shooter, which, I think, would defeat the point of the game

Other stuff, the E3 demo we're seeing has spawn point placed closer to the fire fight specifically for the demo, it's not like that in the real game. If you don't want to have to run around with 2 health left, make sure you don't, force you to think beyond the next 2 second. Medic still have a role, but its pretty much just to revive people, replacing that medic by a guy who certed into squad spawn seem more efficient, so why would you have a maedic? Small group should have to think about there composition, instead of just going "lets just grab whatever shoot the hardest, we don't need support"

I'm all for health regen as something you need to cert into, you wanna play lone wolf, sure, learn how the game is actually played, then spec into lone wolf, not the other way around.

[Kalbuth]

Nah, apparently getting people into thinking and things like "education" are so not 2012 :)
PS2 is meant to be spawn-shot-die-spawn.. because... err... it's 2012 :P

[Antivide]

Partial Regenerating health like Halo Reach.
Which I've got to say as someone who put close to 250 hours in that game, the fully regenerating shields but partial health regen worked extremely well.

1-34 percent you regenerate to 35 percent. You stay at 35 if you hit 35

36-50 percent you regenerate to 50 percent. You stay at 50 if you hit 50

51-74 percent you regenerate to 75 percent.

76-100 percent you fully regenerate to 100 percent.

I call it the 35-50-75 health system.

Regenerating health, but you still need a medic to top you off. Also makes a medics job in healing lightly wounded team mates easier. Simply top off a team-mate's health to 76 and they'll regen by themselves.

It also allows Medics to do triage. Heal critically wounded team mates to at least 51 percent so they'll be combat effective, this allows you to shift priorities in a heated firefight.

The regen at 76 percent would allow you to take minor hits and still regen to full health. The idea here is to make critically wounded players combat effective, but not nearly as combat effective as full health players. And if you take minor fall damage you're not totally gimped in combat

I could also do a poll or post something in the Ideas thread if we still can't agree on something.

Edit:
Basically this allows you to stay in the fight, but eventually you will have to find a medic. That's the point. The Medics are supposed to Heal AND revive. Not just revive, like some people keep saying. MEDICS, HEAL.

[Shade Millith]

I'm against any regenerating health, that's the whole reason they put in the shield system.

If they're going to have both shield and health regenerate, why bother putting in Shield/Health?

We HAVE medics. Lots and lots and lots of medics, with AOE healing. We don't need to have regenerating health on top of this.

[bjorntju1]

I think they just put it in for demo purposes. Atleast I hope it won't be in the full game. This makes medics much less usefull...

[infinite loop]

Did medkits in PS make medics less useful? Just sayin.

[MrBloodworth]

Did medkits in PS make medics less useful? Just sayin.

http://wiki.planetsidesyndicate.com/images/thumb/4/4b/Inventory.jpg/250px-Inventory.jpg

[Kalbuth]

http://wiki.planetsidesyndicate.com/images/thumb/4/4b/Inventory.jpg/250px-Inventory.jpg

You had a favorite for ToD clearing via router specifically? :eek:

[Redshift]

I think they just put it in for demo purposes. Atleast I hope it won't be in the full game. This makes medics much less usefull...

Takes 40 seconds of hiding without being shot to regen yourself, you can do that if you want, but a medic will make your whole squad have little to no downtime, they'll be far from useless