Interpretations on Demo Combat Pace?

[Haro]

With all the threads on concerns/praise from the stream, I'm surprised the old topics of combat pace and TTK haven't really showed up a lot. Hoping that's a positive sign.

Anyway, what did everyone think? I'd especially love to hear from anyone who actually got to play, but obviously lots of people must have gotten some kind of impression from the stream video.

I honestly really liked what I saw. Pretty sure I didn't see any real, instant kill on full health, with the exception of liberator cannons and maybe tanks. Most combat seemed to take at least several seconds, if not even longer featuring missing or taking cover. People seemed aware and even actively reacting to attacks, and several times I'm pretty sure I saw people come back from being attacked and actually win combat. Even the AI max weapons seemed to take a couple seconds to kill even lighter classes, though I can't really say much for infiltrators since I really didn't see a whole lot of them (working as intended?)

I'll skip maxes, that's already being discussed. I'll just say I liked it.

Tanks seem pretty good. C4 definitely seems like its more powerful than most other weapons, as I saw several tanks take multiple rockets and not look too horrible, and I saw a prowler take several magrider shots to the rear before it exploded. I do think the new tank HP, if they are final, will force a rethink of tank tactics (not exactly a bad thing) but it definitely seems workable, and not as bad as we first thought.

Air vehicles seems a bit hard to judge. We definitely know that cliffs are super effective, at least. Most AA weapons weren't fully implemented, and good aerial combat was rare. Still, I do think the burster flak looked pretty good. They may need to fix proximity, but it brought stuff down and I don't think it should be the most powerful AA in the game, clearly. The liberator has been a concern, but I saw one get focused pretty quickly, so whether it's truly OP remains to be seen (again, a subject of another thread.)

Overall, I felt that this let a pretty good lower limit to combat. Obviously, it's far from an ideal representation because of inconsistent player skill, lack of concrete equipment stats, and incomplete incorporation of gameplay elements. Still, I feel like the demo settled my concerns of an ultra-fast gameplay, and though I think maybe the speed could be tweaked a bit more, I think I'd be pretty comfortable with what I saw. What do you guys think? Should beta be faster? Slower? About the same?

[maradine]

I felt the TTKs were a bit low, even by "modern" standards, but it's different watching it than running and gunning it in person. Withholding formal judgement until I have a client in front of me.

edit: which is to say, I think the pace was a bit faster than I'd otherwise want. I'd still play it.

[2coolforu]

TTK's seemed great to me, combat looked nice. It took a serious amount of shots to kill someone if you didn't go for the headshot, at times it took a good 20 or so to get a kill. The scattercannon seemed deadly though, up close it was crushing infantry in 2-3 shots but thats to be expected from a combat shotgun.

[Bags]

Too unorganized and crazy to tell. Half the time the players were killing themselves.

[KTNApollo]

TTK seemed pretty high compared to BF3/CoD. Quite enjoyable.

[Xaine]

I really liked the TTK on Infantry vs Infanty. It was high enough so you couldn't just spray and kill someone (apart from at super close range) and low enough so that your positioning really matters. I think it will benefit more co-ordinated groups.

I thought the MAXs were ok, although i think i saw a MAX going down pretty fast to a Cycler LMG. Not sure how i feel about that, will have to see.

I noticed that aircav and aircraft in general seem to have alot of HP? At oine point you see a dual-AA MAX put a clip of each gun into a Reaver and it doesn't go down. Which was like 5-6 seconds of constant fire.

Anyway, everything i just said will be subject to change when i get into Beta.

Overall, i thought it was really good actually.

Very impressed with the game in general, looks very BETA ready. :)

[kaffis]

My impression was that it might be a little fast. It's often hard to judge when one doesn't have one's hand on the mouse, so I'm assuming that with first-play and unknown skill levels factored in, what we saw is likely somewhat longer TTK than will be the norm live.

Unless that factor is much greater than I'm allowing for, though, the TTK isn't as fast as I'd *feared* it could end up being. So there's that.

[Inverness]

Don't forget that TTK is affected by skill to. The combat pace seemed okay to me, and that was with a bunch of people playing that had never been with PlanetSide before. Obviously more experienced players will attempt better tactics and make better use of cover and such to stay alive longer.

[Shade Millith]

The flow of combat, from the demonstration, looked like complete and utter flipping shit, to be honest. There was no flow at all, and had the impression of a random server COD Deathmatch. That is not a good thing, in any way, shape, or form.

This is one of the things I'm hesitant about with the bases being so open. They're simply NOT defensible. It's an open air arena(Heck, that's what they were designed as apparently), not a base designed to be defended.

Hopefully, this is because of them being forced into a arena like situation. But, again, this is another thing I'm worried about.

[DirtyBird]

Sometimes it was a bit misleading with all of the FF going on.
Generally it looked ok and with beta they'll be able to get some decent feedback and tweak it as needed.

[Haro]

I really liked the TTK on Infantry vs Infanty. It was high enough so you couldn't just spray and kill someone (apart from at super close range) and low enough so that your positioning really matters. I think it will benefit more co-ordinated groups.

I thought the MAXs were ok, although i think i saw a MAX going down pretty fast to a Cycler LMG. Not sure how i feel about that, will have to see.

I noticed that aircav and aircraft in general seem to have alot of HP? At oine point you see a dual-AA MAX put a clip of each gun into a Reaver and it doesn't go down. Which was like 5-6 seconds of constant fire.

Anyway, everything i just said will be subject to change when i get into Beta.

Overall, i thought it was really good actually.

Very impressed with the game in general, looks very BETA ready. :)


Yeah, can't be said enough that this is not only very difficult to judge, but also totally subject to change. Still, it's our best indication so far, and this has been one of THE major concerns for the community, so I think it's worth looking into.

Flak may need additional bugs ironing out, but I think I'd be alright with a bit of delayed kill time for that. It certainly seemed like the Max could stomach everything the air fighters were throwing at it. One thing I really liked was how AV and AA max weapons didn't really seem to work at all outside their regular fields, other than getting peoples attention. One guy tried to take a Prowler on with bursters and I swear I could feel the tank itself getting annoyed by it.

Also, it remains to be seen what other AA can bring to the equation: turrets, tanks, missiles (really didn't see a whole lot of those.) May be that maxes are ment to be on the lower end, or have a high skill curve. Remains to be seen.

[Death2All]

In general, I felt pretty good about the game's combat pace. There were a few instances where some people got instapwned by some weapons (I noticed the Cycler, or one of it's variants was just destroying people) but all in all it looked pretty well balanced.

I had a few other quarrels though:

Where's the fall damage? There were a lot of times where I saw some guy jump off the top of some 8 story building only to lose two little notches off of his shield indicator. Sort of mitigates the point of the gravity lifts going down when you could just jump off the building and save some time with practically no consequences. I'd like to see much harsher fall damage implemented in the future just to combat people sky diving off buildings with no worries.

Vehicles were really squishy. I posted this in another thread but I'll put it here. I noticed quite a few times that when a Tank bumped into a rock or a tree it would knock off 1/5 of it's armor. I was under the impression that tanks were a lot more resilient than that, but apparently not. I'm sure that's subject to change as the game enters beta and is tweaked throughout the months, but god damn was that silly.

Also, rest in peace to all of the poor souls whose lives were taken by the cliffs surrounding the areas. Are cliffs the new trees? I think I saw more people dieing by suicide rather than from the gunshot of another player.

I really liked the little splash screen for the suicide too: "Stop killing yourself" as a skull laughs at you. That was a nice touch.

Air combat looked awesome. I would've liked to see more Scythe gameplay but you apparently need to go through years of rigorous training at the VS flight academy in order to just barely keep yourself from smashing into a mountain 10 seconds after pulling one.

Overall, I can't wait to get my hands on the beta and see exactly how all of this stuff place. You can only infer so much about how game plays when you're watching some awful member of the press fumble his way through the game.

[Haro]

The flow of combat, from the demonstration, looked like complete and utter flipping shit, to be honest. There was no flow at all, and had the impression of a random server COD Deathmatch. That is not a good thing, in any way, shape, or form.

This is one of the things I'm hesitant about with the bases being so open. They're simply NOT defensible. It's an open air arena(Heck, that's what they were designed as apparently), not a base designed to be defended.

Hopefully, this is because of them being forced into a arena like situation. But, again, this is another thing I'm worried about.

I think this really reflects the strategic flow of the game rather than the actual pace of combat, and I agree, it was screwed up. Largely because it was intended to be pick up and play just for the sake of floor demonstration. Things like the forward bases, vehicle spawns, maxes, etc. were all altered specifically for this, and it was all contained into one area. Therefore, you had a constant stream of reinforcements all in the same area, with full access to fighters and tanks piloted by maxes. Not a fair reflection of the larger game.

I think once we see more distance in between spawns and empires, and the rules put to their more conventional and reasonable settings, I think it'll be less chaotic.

People have brought up the wall defense thing before though. I am intrigued by it, because on one hand, yeah, there were tons of people inside the base (though part of that I think was selective stream-switching. More could have been going on outside than we thought.) One thing I noticed, though, was that some infantry really took a long time to get back in if they fell off the battlements. I think that's something that will really need to come out in beta, no way we can truly, accurately discuss it from the demo footage.

[GreatMazinkaise]

Speaking of demo-specific combat flow... I assume everyone noticed that the only equipment terminals were at the forward staging areas?

That poor out of ammo MAX should've been able to resupply at one of the terminals in the base (they owned all 3 points), but there wasn't a terminal to be found.

[NapalmEnima]

Also, it remains to be seen what other AA can bring to the equation: turrets, tanks, missiles (really didn't see a whole lot of those.) May be that maxes are meant to be on the lower end, or have a high skill curve. Remains to be seen.

Ah yes... the Lightning's "Sky guard" turret. I'd expect a dedicated turret weapon to be larger/more effective than one scaled down to fit on an arm (powered exo-suit or no). At the very least, I'd expect a much larger magazine.

I don't recall anyone using the base's turrets, Evar. I'd like to see that too. Something else to attribute to player inexperience.

[Death2All]

The flow of combat, from the demonstration, looked like complete and utter flipping shit, to be honest. There was no flow at all, and had the impression of a random server COD Deathmatch. That is not a good thing, in any way, shape, or form.

This is one of the things I'm hesitant about with the bases being so open. They're simply NOT defensible. It's an open air arena(Heck, that's what they were designed as apparently), not a base designed to be defended.

Hopefully, this is because of them being forced into a arena like situation. But, again, this is another thing I'm worried about.

I think it looked like there was no flow during the presentation because.....there wasn't any. It was just an on floor demonstration where people jumped right in with out the slightest fuck about what was going on. Also, another reason for the battle not flowing was due to the fact that they were all constricted to one area on the map. There was no where to flow to. They were just fighting over one base for the entirety of the presentation.

I expect that once an empire successfully defends or captures a base that they will begin to flow over to the next territory along the way, instead of the fight just lingering around the same base for hours. Or at least I really hope it's that way.

[GreatMazinkaise]

Ah yes... the Lightning's "Sky guard" turret. I'd expect a dedicated turret weapon to be larger/more effective than one scaled down to fit on an arm (powered exo-suit or no). At the very least, I'd expect a much larger magazine.

I don't recall anyone using the base's turrets, Evar. I'd like to see that too. Something else to attribute to player inexperience.

Did the base actually have turrets?

[2coolforu]

Did the base actually have turrets?

Yep

[Haro]

Yep

For some reason, I seem to recall hearing that they'd been disabled for that version, though I may just be making that up. Even if they were in, I think too many people were so excited for Maxes and aircraft (to fly into the cliffs, apparently) and weren't going to sit still in turrets. The turrets TB sat in for one of his videos looked pretty boss though, and certainly seem like an improvement over the crap from the first game.

Engi turrets were used though, and they seemed pretty strong to me. I saw one in a TB vid take down an atv in seconds, seemed to be making aircraft leery at the very least in the demo. Really like the implementation too, especially the color coding. Brilliant.

[Inverness]

The lack of base walls are an issue for me. Even in non-E3 videos I never saw any real walls around bases with gates like we had in PS1. It's going to be hard to defense a base if people can walk in from any direction. There needs to be choke points.

[ThermalReaper]

-Clueless person here-
What is TTK?

Back on topic, I loved what I saw on the stream. This is basically what I was dreaming for in an FPS despite the lack of skill.
I can already tell I'm going to love this game.
The pace is near perfect, not agonising turtle pace and not OMGZ SO FAST YOU 1HKO CoD(If you can call it that) fast paced considering the combat lasts a good bit.

[GreatMazinkaise]

-Clueless person here-
What is TTK?

Back on topic, I loved what I saw on the stream. This is basically what I was dreaming for in an FPS despite the lack of skill.
I can already tell I'm going to love this game.

TTK == Time to Kill, or how long it takes to kill someone.

[Haro]

-Clueless person here-
What is TTK?

Back on topic, I loved what I saw on the stream. This is basically what I was dreaming for in an FPS despite the lack of skill.
I can already tell I'm going to love this game.
The pace is near perfect, not agonising turtle pace and not OMGZ SO FAST YOU 1HKO CoD(If you can call it that) fast paced considering the combat lasts a good bit.

Time To Kill. Sounds like you had a good feel for it even without knowing the jargon. :D

[ThermalReaper]

Ah thanks. Just like I stated in my edit, it isn't instant kills like CoD and it doesn't take agonizing high like some kills in BRINK did.

[Haro]

The lack of base walls are an issue for me. Even in non-E3 videos I never saw any real walls around bases with gates like we had in PS1. It's going to be hard to defense a base if people can walk in from any direction. There needs to be choke points.

I know from TB's Night Ops video that there are at least some walls there (it's the same map as they used for the demo.) The gates, if you can call them that, are definitely a lot larger than the original base, but I think engineers can really mess with the flow of a base, and that's not the kind of stuff you generally see in a pick up and play demo.

I think tomorrow we might see how Sony tries to create the ideal assault/defense scenario.

I do find myself having difficulty really visualizing the whole map. I kind of wish someone would just walk around the whole thing so I know I'm not missing anything. I think I have a decent idea of a lot of the interiors, but it's like piecing together a house from a bunch of pictures.

[Bags]

Higby all but confirmed on Twitter some bases will have walls, some wont, some will be fully walled.

[Inverness]

Higby all but confirmed on Twitter some bases will have walls, some wont, some will be fully walled.
That's good to hear, both because some will be walls and because there will be more variety to bases. One thing I've heard is that there wont be any underground combat areas. I would be disappointed if there weren't at least some bases that have underground portions or that are even entirely underground.

One thing I'm thinking of is a base built into the summit of the mountain where the only access roads to the top are through tunnels in a mountain. Or perhaps a volcano like on Searhus except instead of having a giant open crater, the bases are in the giant volcano built into tunnels carved out by lava and such things.

[Xaine]

One thing I really liked was how AV and AA max weapons didn't really seem to work at all outside their regular fields, other than getting peoples attention. One guy tried to take a Prowler on with bursters and I swear I could feel the tank itself getting annoyed by it.


Rofl, I remember that. He fires at it for a few seconds, and absolutely nothing happens, so he tries to waddle away again before getting blown across the courtyard. I remember watching that and remembering my own 'Oh bugger. Flee!' moments like that. Made me laugh.

I agree as well, I like the fact that each gun performs poorly outside of its own area. It's very PS1.

A slight concern I have is that I can see an AI/AV max becoming very cookie cutter. In PS1 it was one or the other, and I think I preferred that. Again, I haven't played it yet so who knows, but I just think that will become very standard. Being decent at killing infantry and armour seems a little too versatile, which is exactly what the MAX shouldn't be.

Coming from someone who mains as a max btw, but yeah - just my opinion.

[Chowley]

TTK seemed pretty high compared to BF3/CoD. Quite enjoyable.

I have to agree, maybe im imagining it but it seems like they have raised the TTK since the TB videos?
I really like the look of the infantry combat anyway, looked fantastic.

The vehicles, combat looks good in that too, but hard to have any serious insight into it with the major suicide issues the players had :) Great entertainment though, especially the sudden exploding flash's

[Sirisian]

I really liked the TTK on Infantry vs Infanty. It was high enough so you couldn't just spray and kill someone (apart from at super close range) and low enough so that your positioning really matters. I think it will benefit more co-ordinated groups.
Your comment on close range combat I think sums up my feeling. The ranged gameplay looks generally okay. I'd need to see more skilled players in the game before saying it's okay since the players jumping in for fun were missing a lot and spraying. Someone that's crouching tactically and shooting might be hitting every shot and taking down targets much faster at range. Sometimes in the video it's hard to tell if the player dropped fast because of headshots at close range though.

I hope we get to test things like TTK and give our feedback on how much we enjoyed it. Like if the developers could in real-time scale the damage model and see how players react to it and how the gameplay changes.

Vehicle TTK's still look too low.
Definitely. I'm not sure if they did that for the E3 thing though because they anticipated players to spawn unlimited vehicles. I much prefer vehicle combat where tanks can trade some shots for a while like in PS1. The vehicle vs max damage looked okay though. It was taking like 3-4 shots to kill a max with direct hits. I think that kind of damage is in the right direction. (AA/AV maxes need to live somewhat if they go toe to toe with a vehicle).

The movement speed seems good overall. I wouldn't want to see Tribes-like speed in this game, but it definitely looks a bit faster than PS1. In PS1 it was virtually impossible to miss due to the slow movement speed, unless there was lag or autistic ADADADA mashing.
I feel the normal non-sprint needs to be slowed down slightly. The speed at which infantry could traverse through bases felt a little too fast. Keeping sprint at the current speed or slightly slower with a delay from sprint to normal mode would be preferred. Sprint should be a tactical choice with a penalty. It almost seems like it replaced the normal movement in the game instead of being a choice.

The speed of some of the weapon reloads is hideously long, particularly the launchers, but then they do a lot of damage per shot. Fortunately they can be denied by going out of LOS or using countermeasures, otherwise it could become really lame really quickly (especially considering the potential for resource scamming).
I think this will come down to balance. I'd still prefer vehicle certs to cost resources to be used for this reason. Stuff like flares which allow one to negate the damage of one or multiple lock-on rockets really needs a cost. (I've discussed this at length about creating complex loadouts with different resource costs where certs just unlock the availability of being able to purchase the upgrade).

You mention being denied by countermeasures. That's why I'd prefer certs for the lock-on launchers to allow longer paths and re-lock. So if the rocket loses track because of a flare it could re-lock on if it was close enough and still alive. (Someone using flares would then use their flares and afterburner away to not get hit).

The one thing I definitely want to see removed is insta-kill grenades. Especially because they're tied to resources and they're hard to spot (I couldn't even tell where they were in the vid most of the time), this thing to be killed hard.
That one grenade in the hallway killed two players it looked like. Even with resources that seemed a bit intense. Destroying the shield and doing some health damage, but allowing it to one hit seemed like too much. Would be cool if it acted like a concussion on the shield and delayed the recharge. Allows someone to throw a grenade at an enemy then go in and finish them off easily.

[The Kush]

Yea it's wayyyyy too early to say anything about pace. Players spawned close to the base to create a lot of combat despite having a low population. When the game has more organized combat and the servers are more full we can talk about pace.

[Redshift]

The pace looked pretty good, the only thing that i thought was iffy was the loverator gun having pin point accuracy an a half second travel time

[Red Beard]

If you guys are worried about grenade spam, why not just have them cost more resources? A grenade with the combination of a relatively long delay that isn't able to kill in one hit seems like a waste of time to me. Not only that, but if the maps are considerably more open than PS1, it seems to me that statistically speaking (with other things remaining constant) that deaths from grenades will be lower for that reason.

If the counter argument ends up being that they're hard to see, I'd rather have a grenade warning than nerf balls...

[DesertFox]

Speaking of demo-specific combat flow... I assume everyone noticed that the only equipment terminals were at the forward staging areas?

That poor out of ammo MAX should've been able to resupply at one of the terminals in the base (they owned all 3 points), but there wasn't a terminal to be found.

I think it was said somewhere in the stream that (when a player in a max suit ran out of ammo), he would need to find a light assault class to drop him some.

[Coreldan]

TTK seemed pretty high compared to BF3/CoD. Quite enjoyable.

Sorta this. The TTKs seemed fairly arcade for what I'm used to, but I don't mind it that much in a game like Plantside where theres people everywhere.

Pace overall seemed good to me.

[DviddLeff]

Looked spot on to me.

Really like that MAXs can be taken down with standard equipment if the player is good enough - AV shouldn't have to be used.

[MacXXcaM]

Can't say TTK is too low here. Seems about right to be fun and strategic.
Must say, I'm very happy atm ^^

[ringring]

The flow of combat, from the demonstration, looked like complete and utter flipping shit, to be honest. There was no flow at all, and had the impression of a random server COD Deathmatch. That is not a good thing, in any way, shape, or form.

This is one of the things I'm hesitant about with the bases being so open. They're simply NOT defensible. It's an open air arena(Heck, that's what they were designed as apparently), not a base designed to be defended.

Hopefully, this is because of them being forced into a arena like situation. But, again, this is another thing I'm worried about.

First of TTK seems fine to me.

re: above, I know what you mean. Perhaps when outfits get involved and get organised we will get tanks holding down territory on one side of the base, Aircav supressing the towers while foot soldiers work their way through.

ps it was a 3-way so a bit of chaos is to be expected.

[Toppopia]

First of TTK seems fine to me.

re: above, I know what you mean. Perhaps when outfits get involved and get organised we will get tanks holding down territory on one side of the base, Aircav supressing the towers while foot soldiers work their way through.

ps it was a 3-way so a bit of chaos is to be expected.

And most of the people probably didn't even know what to do, so all they did was run round and hope they found someone, whereas once we have played for a few weeks or a few months, the general population will be in a proper flow, and outfits will become the main way to have cohesive assaults/defences and such.

[Shade Millith]

I think it was said somewhere in the stream that (when a player in a max suit ran out of ammo), he would need to find a light assault class to drop him some.

This is something that REALLY worries me.

If a Light Assault class gets the ability to spawn infinite ammunition, I'm going to be absolutely furious.

[Coreldan]

This is something that REALLY worries me.

If a Light Assault class gets the ability to spawn infinite ammunition, I'm going to be absolutely furious.

Why exactly does it worry you? I do agree that I'd rather see someone else than LIGHT ASSAULT do the ammo dropping, but I'm still not quite sure what worries you about it?

Also, we currently have no idea what will be the "go-to" class for most people. It may not be light assault, but fe. heavy assault.

[SztEltviz]

The TTK looks OK for now usually on 1vs1, but what will happen when we got normal number of players? Tons of ammo in air will cut everybody down in nanoseconds :eek: Especially on tanks.

[Nick]

The TTK is REALLY good right now. Don't change it until we're in beta....we need to give it a try too.

[Hmr85]

From what I saw the ttk on infantry looked great. It took a few shots to drop a guy. MAXS I am still up in the air about. When the people who had no clue how to play where playing them they seemed like they went down almost to easy From LMG fire which was some what distressing. But when a player that had a general clue played a MAX they came across as looking great and almost to pwerful. I'll reserve judgment on them come beta when I have a client in front of me.

Aircraft seemed like they had to much hp in my view. When you have 2 guns on a AA max and have to burn through a full clip and half to take mossy down at point blank range...I felt like it needed to be tweaked some.

All in all the game looked great. I realize things are more than likely going to change come beta. But I love the look of what I saw.

[Xaine]

Looked spot on to me.

Really like that MAXs can be taken down with standard equipment if the player is good enough - AV shouldn't have to be used.

Not 100% I agree with that.

I think that realistically you should need AV to being down a MAX, if all it takes is two people win assault rifles and a semi decent aim to bring one down in a few seconds then yeah, not sure I'm ok with that.

I mean if you get the drop on one and can put like 3 clips into its back at point blank range then fine. I just that that now, more than in PS1, they need to be more resistant to small arms fre. It should be doable, but pretty bloody hard.

My opinion anyway, and we'll see what it's like in beta. I could be very wrong.

Maybe having a few people kitted out as MAX busters when you drop into a base, as side arms actually seem to be pretty viable if you have an AV in your long arm slot.

[Top Sgt]

yeah there was so much friendly fire going on yesterday during the stream.. it was hard to judge correctly.. A guy dies on screen and it seemed he was dropped quickly (1 or 2 shots) but then you find out while he was firing and being shot at by the enemy.. some dipshit teammate was behind him shooting him in the back etc.

Overall i think they found the sweet spot.. It's right where it takes some skill of aiming and tactics to kill at range but also you can drop a guy quickly at immediate range also.

Overall i like what I saw.

[Stardouser]

TTK might only have seemed higher because we were seeing a lot of MAX combat; LA vs LA may still be low.

[LegioX]

Well from what i was seeing, the people who were killing max's quickly were aiming for the upperbody and head area. I saw one guy put good shots right on the max's head and dropped quickly.


All boils down to, who can aim and who cannot

[Shade Millith]

Why exactly does it worry you? I do agree that I'd rather see someone else than LIGHT ASSAULT do the ammo dropping, but I'm still not quite sure what worries you about it?

Also, we currently have no idea what will be the "go-to" class for most people. It may not be light assault, but fe. heavy assault.

Because it means any group with half a brain will never run out of ammunition. Ever. That isn't a good thing.

Being cut off from resupply should actually mean something. Something to worry about. When behind enemy lines is something you work together in a tight nit group to accomplish. Scrounging ammunition from corpses and whatever you can find. Now you can hand it out like lollies at a party, throw them around without care. Because there's always more where it came from.

Infinite ammunition has cheapened a huge amount of the experiences I've had with Battlefield, and I don't see this being any different.

[diLLa]

Because it means any group with half a brain will never run out of ammunition. Ever. That isn't a good thing.

Being cut off from resupply should actually mean something. Something to worry about. When behind enemy lines is something you work together in a tight nit group to accomplish. Scrounging ammunition from corpses and whatever you can find. Now you can hand it out like lollies at a party, throw them around without care. Because there's always more where it came from.

Infinite ammunition has cheapened a huge amount of the experiences I've had with Battlefield, and I don't see this being any different.

The answer seems pretty easy, focus the light infantry first, so they die first, and no one is left to resupply.

[DviddLeff]

The problem I have with light assault having it in particular is that these guys should be hit and run troops able to get in, do some damage but then have to fall back to repair and rearm. Also by giving these guys the ammo packs it allows them to jump up onto a roof and then basically stay there until another light assault or aircraft comes to take them down - not ideal.

[captainkapautz]

Because it means any group with half a brain will never run out of ammunition. Ever. That isn't a good thing.

Being cut off from resupply should actually mean something. Something to worry about. When behind enemy lines is something you work together in a tight nit group to accomplish. Scrounging ammunition from corpses and whatever you can find. Now you can hand it out like lollies at a party, throw them around without care. Because there's always more where it came from.

Infinite ammunition has cheapened a huge amount of the experiences I've had with Battlefield, and I don't see this being any different.

So you disliked every BF-title after BF:Vietnam?

[ikon]

i really liked the ttk, more than bf3 but not over the top.

not that i didn't love ps1 ttk's but its a different game.

[Coreldan]

The problem I have with light assault having it in particular is that these guys should be hit and run troops able to get in, do some damage but then have to fall back to repair and rearm. Also by giving these guys the ammo packs it allows them to jump up onto a roof and then basically stay there until another light assault or aircraft comes to take them down - not ideal.

A good point. Personally I'd still vote for engi to have it either as one form of ACE deployable or just a seperate utility slot. I'd like a similar Aegis Vending machine that Planetside had :D Not with the cloak necessarily though :D

[kaffis]

Because it means any group with half a brain will never run out of ammunition. Ever. That isn't a good thing.
There's a cooldown on it. This means that if you put pressure on a group with half a brain, you'll force them to deplete ammo faster than their LA can keep it resupplied.

And if you can't, that means that enough of the guys are LA that you should be able to outright kill them far easier.

Putting ammo on the Engineer is a bad idea. The Engineer is one of the powerhouses when he's stationary. Giving him the tools to remain stationary longer is a lousy notion to promote teamplay.

[Graywolves]

As others have pointed out the TTK can feel a little different when you're actually playing as opposed to watching but from observing gameplay in the stream with other factors included (unorganized 3-way at a convention). I think the TTK is pretty close to where it should be for the game.

[MrBloodworth]

It looked a great deal better than I would have thought. Good job guys. But the proof is in the pudding.

[proxy]

Infinite ammunition has cheapened a huge amount of the experiences I've had with Battlefield, and I don't see this being any different.

Grenade after grenade.
Rocket after rocket.
Down the hallway or choke point.
Limitless.
Good thing?

[Xyntech]

It looked pretty good to me, but I really need a hands on, killing and being killed to make up my mind. I do like that it's faster paced without being ridiculously instantaneous though. Seems like they are at least aiming for the right balance, if they haven't already struck it.

We saw players taking down MAXes with head shots pretty quick, but we also saw those same MAXes downing other players pretty quick at times as well. CQC, it seems like twitch will win, longer range, having a steady aim and good tactics and positioning will win.

As always, team play will probably come out on top. Looks like the TTK is high enough that teams won't have a problem overwhelming random solo players, barring a significant skill gap.

[GreatMazinkaise]

As always, team play will probably come out on top. Looks like the TTK is high enough that teams won't have a problem overwhelming random solo players, barring a significant skill gap.

The potential for ten Spartiates to fuck up a hundred Zerglings seems to be there as well, which is a good thing. CCs might well be defensible.

[wraithverge]

In my opinion the TTK is low enough that you can drop someone easily, but high enough that if you dodge when hit you can still win if you are a better player. Maybe it was me, but it seemed even a little high for me cranked out on adrenaline heat of battle time slowdown moments.

Oh also, I believe TB is a better shot then all these guys, it seemed like all his shots were upper torso/head.

[bjorntju1]

I think it looked good, not to fast and not to slow.

[GreatMazinkaise]

Oh also, I believe TB is a better shot then all these guys, it seemed like all his shots were upper torso/head.

Maybe, but when he was playing most of the players may as well have been standing still. His piloting skills are certainly equivalent.

[Xyntech]

In my opinion the TTK is low enough that you can drop someone easily, but high enough that if you dodge when hit you can still win if you are a better player. Maybe it was me, but it seemed even a little high for me cranked out on adrenaline heat of battle time slowdown moments.

I generally agree with most of what you say. But it is a good thing if the TTK is just slightly high on a 1 vs 1 fight, because so often it's 2 vs 1, or 5 vs 7, or 22 vs 26, just in a single firefight, not even talking about the rest of the battle surrounding you. So if the TTK is just slightly too high in 1 vs 1, and just slightly too low in 16 vs 16, I think it will be perfect.

[Haro]

Rofl, I remember that. He fires at it for a few seconds, and absolutely nothing happens, so he tries to waddle away again before getting blown across the courtyard. I remember watching that and remembering my own 'Oh bugger. Flee!' moments like that. Made me laugh.

I agree as well, I like the fact that each gun performs poorly outside of its own area. It's very PS1.

A slight concern I have is that I can see an AI/AV max becoming very cookie cutter. In PS1 it was one or the other, and I think I preferred that. Again, I haven't played it yet so who knows, but I just think that will become very standard. Being decent at killing infantry and armour seems a little too versatile, which is exactly what the MAX shouldn't be.

Coming from someone who mains as a max btw, but yeah - just my opinion.

I think there's a bit of a balancing factor to that though. From what I saw, even dual-AI maxes still needed a few seconds to take down infantry, and I can't see max AV weapons really hurting tanks. I think it will be common, but not super effective. I'd rather specialize and work together with other maxes to get things done. Seemed like when TR maxes really started coordinating, they were beastly.

[megamold]

i know the demo isn't the best benchmark, but the pace looked good to me.
also the TTK seemed very reasonable.
and just from looking at it the guns,menu's, actions in the game looked pretty snappy and responsive.

i liked it, will watch the live again tonight.