The New Grief System

[Dairian]

I noticed that there wasn't a grief system in the demo. Probably because this was for testing purposes. But I also have not seen it in any of the other videos as well. I am sure without a grief system it will be hectic, when someone gets mad and continues hunt you down over and over.. This happened in PS1 and there was a system. It would get out of control if there was nothing in place to stop it.

With a shorter TTK it seems that TK'ing will happen more often. So should the PS1 Grief system be implemented for should it change?

Post your ideas how you think the new Grief system should work.

[GTGD]

- Grief "point" system like PS1
- Once you get to a new grief level, you take a hit to your personal resources
- Spammy weapons are disabled
- Weapon lock and vehicle speed reduction after some amount
- Definitely a big flashing grief signal
- Account flag

[Bags]

The ysad grief is coming back with tweaks

[Knightwyvern]

As Higby said in the TB dual commentary, the fact that PS2 is a F2P game makes a grief system a bit useless. There solution to this seems to be having server admins available at all times.

[AvacadoEight]

I am definitely capable of making new accounts to continue tk'ing people.

Theeen maybe we dont want you here?

[kaffis]

The ysad grief is coming back with tweaks
"YSAD"? You Shot A Dude?

[Bags]

They said.

Shut up, my laptop's keyboard barely works.

[Knightwyvern]

They said.

Shut up, my laptop's keyboard barely works.

For a while there I thought you were talking about Youth Suicide And Depression. :P

[Dairian]

As Higby said in the TB dual commentary, the fact that PS2 is a F2P game makes a grief system a bit useless. There solution to this seems to be having server admins available at all times.

Without a grief system people will just shoot through there own team to try and get the kill.

- Grief "point" system like PS1
- Once you get to a new grief level, you take a hit to your personal resources
- Spammy weapons are disabled
- Weapon lock and vehicle speed reduction after some amount
- Definitely a big flashing grief signal
- Account flag

I think this would be viable. And if someone does make a 2nd or 3rd account At least they will be locked out of there account and will have to progress another character through the cert system. The admin would still be needed to ban anyone who continues to TK. The Grief system would keep the people who play one account and care about progression to watch there fire.

[Tapman]

Higby talked a while back about potentially having an option to forgive if you were killed by friendly fire. I think they are also going to have fairly sophisticated monitoring systems considering the potential for abuse and trolling.

I would like to to see them identyfing if a particular person is killing friendlies on a continued basis or a particular friendly repeatedly without being forgiven, I would hope that they could use a gm to investigate and if identified as a threat be automatically marked with a red spot to all those within a decent range as a teamkiller. Killing a marked teamkiller should count as a justified kill in their stats, not a team kill. Repeat offenders should be suspended from the game, character banned if necessary and hopefully with a reasonable appeals process in case of trolls.

I'm pretty certain that no final decision has been made about the grief system because you can't know what it's going to be like once the populations go up.

[Greeniegriz]

They said.

Shut up, my laptop's keyboard barely works.

Lol, i ended up googling "YSAD" and "planetside".

GTGD's idea would work but as Knight said, how can you make sure it works in a F2P game where someone can just make a new account?

Cheers,

GG

[QuantumMechanic]

I suppose there's a possibility that there won't be a grief system because there won't be any team damage enabled...

[QuantumMechanic]

I suppose there's a possibility that there won't be a grief system because there won't be any team damage enabled...

Although I doubt that because we see the team damage in-game. We just don't see the greif system (yet).

[GreatMazinkaise]

You need the ability to TK gen killers (or the new equivalent)...

[raykor]

How about a grief system that takes away experience and resources?

[Knightwyvern]

Griefers are griefers. The fact that they could just make a new account and use that overrides pretty much all methods besides the constant admin surveillance that Higby has mentioned previously. Though he did say they were going to have more than one solution; I assume this means some sort of anti cheat system to block aimbots etc along with 24/7 admin availability.

[KTNApollo]

I am definitely capable of making new accounts to continue tk'ing people.

Because you'll definitely want to level up your BR and unlock all those certs and gain all those resources in order to effectively TK.

[Knightwyvern]

Because you'll definitely want to level up your BR and unlock all those certs and gain all those resources in order to effectively TK.

-_- Not sure if serious..

[KnightHawk ECID]

They should have it so if you are Tk you get a check box that says forgive? yes, or no. If that player is not forgiven x amount of times the admin or customer service is flagged to check him.

[Raka Maru]

Still think TK'ers should be made to wear sack cloth and chains with a permanent sad face until the grief wears off. Timer should not reset if they log off. Then they should be displayed in the nearest base chained somewhere near the courtyard.

Sackcloth: no armour
Chains: no weapons
Displayed: humiliation

But...

All this is moot 'cuz they can create a new free account, sooo... I think they should tie all accounts to a valid payment system and use the very mature authentication system of our financial system.

[GTGD]

Lol, i ended up googling "YSAD" and "planetside".

GTGD's idea would work but as Knight said, how can you make sure it works in a F2P game where someone can just make a new account?

Cheers,

GG

Well I would assume they are tracking IPs, maybe not for IP bans (college campuses would be screwed) but for investigation purposes. What happens when some guy gets locked/banned for griefing and that same IP just happens to make or access another account?

But like they've said about cheating, you won't be able to stop everyone. The idea is to make it inconvenient for them to discourage it. The more work they have to do, the more dedicated they will be to griefing.

[Red Beard]

I am definitely capable of making new accounts to continue tk'ing people.

Stop team killing people.

[Kriegson]

I like the old system, and the idea of being able to forgive team damage.

Afaik: You shoot someone, you get a warning. You shoot someone X amount of times (or do X amount of damage) and your weapons get locked for a time. Continue to do so, and you might end up with a short ban, followed by a perma ban if infractions continue.

Yes, you can complain that people can grief by simply walking in front of you, in which case they would realistically be eating bullets that were meant for you.
So I don't see a legitimate complaint there aside from the random idiot who wanders in front of you while you're spraying at someone downrange and ends up dead for being a jackass.
In which case, as long as it wasn't repeated multiple times in a short time period, you should be let off with a warning.

[Raka Maru]

Yes, the old grief system was fine, but doesn't handle free account creation problems. I hope they have something up their sleeves for this.

[Xaine]

Yes, the old grief system was fine, but doesn't handle free account creation problems. I hope they have something up their sleeves for this.

Pretty much this.

I'm interested to see what they come up with.

One of the main reason I still don't like F2P games. How can you punish someone when they can just make another account.

[Razicator]

Pretty much this.

I'm interested to see what they come up with.

One of the main reason I still don't like F2P games. How can you punish someone when they can just make another account.

what about hardware bans for repeat griefers?

[Sifer2]

It's just another reason I would like to have a subscriber only server. It would keep out the rip raff like TK griefers, and hackers. Even with Admins patrolling all the time its not really going to be enough.

What they should do is make it one account per credit/debit card at the least. This make as many accounts as you want statement Higby made sounds ridiculous. If it stays like that even I might be attempted to grief just to make a point lol.

[Gonefshn]

Grief systems are a Beta issue.

But these things are also very easy to spot for an admin it will show up on the kill spam and is easy to report.

[TeaLeaf]

I think as long as the admins can ban grief accounts within 30 minutes or so and low level free characters don't have access to anything with enormous grief potential then it won't be too much of an issue. You'll also probably lose resources and possibly experience for TKing so hopefully griefers will end up poor and unable to buy their griefing tools.

A similar situation keeps a lot of aimbotters out of Tribes Ascend, as you need to unlock the sniper class using either hours of time or some real cash and it isn't worth it for the 2 hours of time they get to use their hack before being banned.

[The Kush]

I think once you pass an x amount of damage to your own team per every y amount of time, z amount of resources will be subtracted from your account. Continued grief will subtract greater amounts until you hit zero. At this point your account is warned and weapons and vehicle access rejected for a certain amount of time.

[Tarconus]

What if you and some squad mates get drunk and just start screwing around with tanks or planes. Or just shooting each other laughing and having a good time and now your banned even though you were just screwing around.

That's the problem with auto banning. That's why admins are the best solution as two team mates just goofing off aren't going to report each other.

[GuyFawkes]

I think they should have a sin bin like they have in rubgy. Theres a small 'compound' in your factions 'safe' zone on a continent where either Barney , Elmo or Grandpa Smurf resides and gives you a 15 min lecture on how to play . You are stuck there for 15 mins, but everyone can see you from your faction if they are in the area. You can't relog or log out until the 15 mins are up . You then have to wear the 'barney is my hero' suit for the next 6hrs of play time when you are allowed out with fresh diaper to play among the big kids.
I'm sure creating multiple accounts to end up in the kindergarten is most constructive and appealing.

[Bags]

What if you and some squad mates get drunk and just start screwing around with tanks or planes. Or just shooting each other laughing and having a good time and now your banned even though you were just screwing around.

That's the problem with auto banning. That's why admins are the best solution as two team mates just goofing off aren't going to report each other.

... you don't get grief for shooting squadies.

[dm Akolyte]

Make killing someone always eat at your BEP. If you get to negative resources, weapons get locked for 20 or so minutes.

New accounts would have near zero resources to begin with, I assume, and so would only be able to get a couple of TKs in before getting locked and having to make a new account, and go through the entire process of starting a new character just to get a few TKs in.

Veteran players would have enough experience that accidentally killing a teammate would still be bad, but wouldn't be too bad.

EDIT: oh, and then have your weapons locked if do a certain amount of team damage within 24 hours.

[Nasher]

The old grief system worked ok. They should bring it back as well as have admins around. You often can't help occasionally hitting players with so many around so we don't want it to be to harsh.

I'm guessing they will actually only have admins on US servers?

[MrBloodworth]

I would like to see the grief system return, possibly with the forgive option. But mostly wholly return. While I understand people can just make more accounts.

Make them have to make more accounts.

Both a high CS presence and the automated grief system should be implemented, they are not mutually exclusive systems.

[Kalbuth]

+ the fact that logging on another account is probably going to make you spawn on a completely other location, making targeted griefing rather tedious.

[tdopz]

Make killing someone always eat at your BEP. If you get to negative resources, weapons get locked for 20 or so minutes.

New accounts would have near zero resources to begin with, I assume, and so would only be able to get a couple of TKs in before getting locked and having to make a new account

This is actually a pretty decent idea. I would say though, that rather than an immediate weapon lock, if you get to negative resources through team damage/killing, they should be flagged for investigation. If you do an excessive amount of TKing or damage, then you can lock their weapons. One of the things you don't want to do is overly punish new players from making an honest mistake(some people simply won't ever click "forgive"), which is the only really big flaw I see in your suggestion.

[Dairian]

What if you and some squad mates get drunk and just start screwing around with tanks or planes. Or just shooting each other laughing and having a good time and now your banned even though you were just screwing around.

That's the problem with auto banning. That's why admins are the best solution as two team mates just goofing off aren't going to report each other.

In PS1 if you were in a squad you didn't get grief so you and your fiends could have fun and kill each other. Which solved this problem. I would say this would be implemented in the new system.

[HEISTT]

I would hope that they could use a gm to investigate and if identified as a threat be automatically marked with a red spot to all those within a decent range as a teamkiller. Killing a marked teamkiller should count as a justified kill in their stats, not a team kill. Repeat offenders should be suspended from the game, character banned if necessary and hopefully with a reasonable appeals process in case of trolls.

This actually sounds feasible to me. It should not require a GM to mark someone as a teamkiller, this could also be triggered by various variables (TK's within x minutes, TK's against the same person etc.).

This actually enables players to purify their ranks on their own. I like!

[Ale]

You need the ability to TK gen killers (or the new equivalent)...

VVN.
VTX.
VVS.

VAG.
VAG.
VAG.

VAG.
VAG.
VSAG.

VVY.
VVY.
VVB.

[Eyeklops]

If you get killed by a friendly the death screen should have two buttons "It's cool" and "Punish."

If you press "It's cool" the offender gets no punishment or grief.

If you select "Punish" it should kill the offender, take away XX EXP, X% of all resources, and add grief points like PS1. These penalties should compound for each new "incident." If you throw a grenade and kill 5 people that would be 1 incident, but each person would be able to punish you without it compounding.

The EXP and resources should NOT transfer from the offender to the victim. No need to incentivize for running in-front of the firing lines.

And yes, EXP loss can lead to a Battle Rank loss. If the offender looses enough grief to drop a Battle Rank, they should somehow lose certs as well.

[MrBloodworth]

VVN.
VTX.
VVS.

VAG.
VAG.
VAG.

VAG.
VAG.
VSAG.

VVY.
VVY.
VVB.

That's "B" now.

[Mezorin]

The original grief system is not a bad idea over all, provided that the numbers are tweaked and they expand it. For instance, there should be a way to work off excessive grief points through some sort of good behavior, like medicing or repairing people's vehicles. You could opt to help work down your grief rather than get SEP, but the amount you could work off would have to be capped to avoid abuses. Likewise, there should be a forgive feature in the game. I know I've accidentally walked in front of somebody's fire lane a few times, and it really wasn't his fault for the grief points incured, and many TR would choose to forgive and cut their friendly Pounder MAXes a break rather than see them get locked out of the game for a couple of stupid zerglings running into their field of fire.

[Erendil]

If you get killed by a friendly the death screen should have two buttons "It's cool" and "Punish."

If you press "It's cool" the offender gets no punishment or grief.

If you select "Punish" it should kill the offender, take away XX EXP, X% of all resources, and add grief points like PS1. These penalties should compound for each new "incident." If you throw a grenade and kill 5 people that would be 1 incident, but each person would be able to punish you without it compounding.

The EXP and resources should NOT transfer from the offender to the victim. No need to incentivize for running in-front of the firing lines.

And yes, EXP loss can lead to a Battle Rank loss. If the offender looses enough grief to drop a Battle Rank, they should somehow lose certs as well.

Me like, although outright killing the offender on a Punish might be a little harsh.

And I wouldn't want a "forgive? Y/N" window popping up on my screen. We already have enough annoying useless crap getting shoved in our faces (killstreaks, revenge kills, certain automated voice macros, etc) and I'd likely already be irritated for being shot in the back. :p

A better option would be a voice macro request/response.

Killer: V-V-S Sorry.
Killed: V-V-F No problem.

BAM! Instant forgiveness. :) It'd work for groups too in case you accidentally blow up a full sundy or something.

You could also have a "forgive %killer" command you could type that'd auto-forgive the last teammate who killed you in case you were AFK or tapped too fast after your death to hear the V-V-S.

[Blue Sam]

Lol, i ended up googling "YSAD" and "planetside".

GTGD's idea would work but as Knight said, how can you make sure it works in a F2P game where someone can just make a new account?

Cheers,

GG

I am definitely capable of making new accounts to continue tk'ing people.

Easy solution: If there are three accounts from the same IP with more than a certain number of grief points, ban that IP for three days.

[Rat]

Lol, i ended up googling "YSAD" and "planetside".

GTGD's idea would work but as Knight said, how can you make sure it works in a F2P game where someone can just make a new account?

Cheers,

GG


Friendly turned off until BR5?...that way the troll would have to commit atleast some time to the account before he can TK.

[GreatMazinkaise]

Friendly turned off until BR5?...that way the troll would have to commit atleast some time to the account before he can TK.

I would hope that grenades would be unavailable or restricted during that period as well then.

[Cosmical]

Ive said this 100 times before, and its still the best option. Make grief as harsh as it needs to be to stop TKing. And balance it by having a grief point removed for every health point you heal on another player. Simple and effective, griefers will be locked and kicked. Unless they spend an equal amount of time as a medic or engineer giving back to their faction what they took away.

And with everyone having medic and engineer available to them, there is no reason why they wouldnt be able to. SOLVED.

[LightningDriver]

Do something like drop the current grief level from 1000 to 500, and have a 24 hour weapons lock. The second time an account gets a weapons lock, the timer goes up to 48 hours, the third time.... etc, etc. The longer an account is in good standing, the shorter the weapons lock timer will be.

[Dropshockmedic]

Post your ideas how you think the new Grief system should work.

If you shoot someone of your own fraction while there are no enemy fraction players around in a radius of lets say 500 meters, you lose ressources.
That will teach teamkillers.

I believe the garisons are closed off too. If you shot an ally inside of it, you lose ressources too and if you kill 2 more allys, you get banned for 15 minutes and are unable to open the same continent for this amount of time.

[WorldOfForms]

Here's my grief system solution:

-New accounts can't damage friendlies at all and can't cause grief to friendlies when hit (but they can be killed by friendlies so they can't block people). This eliminates grief potential for repeat accounts, and also gives new players breathing room to learn the game without pissing off team mates. The grace period for this non-friendly fire mode can be tweaked with testing.

-Grief points accumulate how they did in PS1.

-Forgiveness system

-Reduced damage to friendlies. This is key, because it means you can accidentally wing someone and not kill them, and it also makes it difficult for intentional griefers to get TKs.

-A scaled curve of friendly fire damage if you continue to grief. So say you're past the non-FF grace period and still want to grief. The more you shoot teammates in a short period of time, not only do your grief points increase faster, but it also takes more and more shots to kill friendlies, while friendlies receive less and less grief for shooting you back. You could even make it so if you shoot X number of friendlies in X minutes, friendlies get NO grief for shooting you, allowing for a self-policing system.

There might be holes in my logic here, so feel free to point them out.

[Zebasiz]

Totally agree with Rat and Forms.
While a grief system will be in place to, you know, stop griefers in some manner.
To combat people just making new accounts in the FTP model, just make it so they cannot teamkill/give grief to others untill a certain level or time has passed while playing. Such as reaching BR5 or so, or an hour of playtime. That would add a rather bit of effort just to troll people with multiple accounts.

[SixShooter]

Easy solution: If there are three accounts from the same IP with more than a certain number of grief points, ban that IP for three days.

This would worry me a little bit. I do plan to have 3 accounts as follows:
VS main character
TR secondary - Probably on a different server
VS main for my son so we can play together

My main and secondary should be no problem although a little worried because I want to spend a fair amount of time gunning for Libs (it just looks so fun:lol:). For my son I'm going to have to keep a real close eye on it because he's only 7 and it would suck to have my main banned because he made a mistake.

[cHaM]

I noticed that there wasn't a grief system in the demo. Probably because this was for testing purposes. But I also have not seen it in any of the other videos as well. I am sure without a grief system it will be hectic, when someone gets mad and continues hunt you down over and over.. This happened in PS1 and there was a system. It would get out of control if there was nothing in place to stop it.

With a shorter TTK it seems that TK'ing will happen more often. So should the PS1 Grief system be implemented for should it change?

Post your ideas how you think the new Grief system should work.

Speaking as someone who is notorios for griefing in this manner, I can assure you that PS1's grief system never stopped me from griefing someone.

What stops someone like me from griefing someone like you is when a brain cell finally enters your head and you realize you can spawn in a location other than where I'm currently spawn camping you at. The amount of time I have to spend locating you again is inversely proportional to the amount of fucks I give in trying to grief you some more.

Want a foolproof system to stop from being griefed? Stop making me grief you by doing stupid shit: Stop running in front of my tank when I'm driving out the base. Stop running in front of me when I'm trying to kill an enemy. Stop being further ahead in the vehicle queue than me to pull your Reaver because you are too fucking stupid to backbind to another base if you're AirCav whoring.

In general - Don't be a shitty player and you won't be griefed.

[SKYeXile]

cbfed reading whole thread but higby has previously stated that there would be 3 options upon getting tked:

Punish/forgive/report

maybe not that exact wording.

[ratfusion]

The existing system works great.

A free to play game is never going to have enough admins online to police it in a report-to-service-rep grief system.

[Envenom]

There should be a threshold where if you grief enough and cross it, for instance playing as a TR, you automatically get team switched to NC.

I can't think of a worse punishment and deterrent than that.

[n2q0_matrix]

I kinda like the way Hard Core Ricochet works for MW3. You shoot a friendly, you take the damage and they don't. But in hurts the realism. Maybe there is a hybrid here somewhere.

I like the idea with the kill screen FORGIVE / PUNISH / REPORT.... for PUNISH the offender gets all friendly fire damage they inflicted against themselves instead of the person(s) they shot.

They would get no satisfaction beyond the initial offense, and it would negatively effect them for much longer than the victim. All in all, it would reduce people's motivation to TK.

Now, can it be abused?

[Accuser]

I kinda like the way Hard Core Ricochet works for MW3. You shoot a friendly, you take the damage and they don't. But in hurts the realism. Maybe there is a hybrid here somewhere.

I haven't played it, but that sounds like a perfectly acceptable system. Perhaps hurt the victim as well as the griefer though. That would prevent most of the griefing and most importantly, still work even if the griefer has multiple accounts to screw around on.

[Rago]

Well TK People will still result in "I can not Spawn" I dont have any Worries,right ?
Server Admins + Grief System will work.

[Kezz]

I kinda like the way Hard Core Ricochet works for MW3. You shoot a friendly, you take the damage and they don't. But in hurts the realism. Maybe there is a hybrid here somewhere.

I like the idea with the kill screen FORGIVE / PUNISH / REPORT.... for PUNISH the offender gets all friendly fire damage they inflicted against themselves instead of the person(s) they shot.

They would get no satisfaction beyond the initial offense, and it would negatively effect them for much longer than the victim. All in all, it would reduce people's motivation to TK.

Now, can it be abused?
Instead of shooting you they'll jump in your fire lane and die, then Punish you, killing you and giving you any cumulative griefing score that's implemented. Incidentally pissing you off even further. Reflective damage is bad.

There are definitely lots of good ideas in this thread that combined together can make a grief system that will be fit for purpose.

We don't know how much ID evidence will be required to create a new Station/PS2 account; it's so long since I did, I don't recall if they demanded a CC; having a Credit Card associated with the account would limit the user base somewhat though.

If there's any time when your FF is turned off, all damaging AE effects must also be disabled, or your Grenadier of choice will be the newb whose grenades can be chucked into your melee.

[SKYeXile]

I kinda like the way Hard Core Ricochet works for MW3. You shoot a friendly, you take the damage and they don't. But in hurts the realism. Maybe there is a hybrid here somewhere.

I like the idea with the kill screen FORGIVE / PUNISH / REPORT.... for PUNISH the offender gets all friendly fire damage they inflicted against themselves instead of the person(s) they shot.

They would get no satisfaction beyond the initial offense, and it would negatively effect them for much longer than the victim. All in all, it would reduce people's motivation to TK.

Now, can it be abused?
a system where you can make people die and get greif by running infront of their fire? yes, verymuch so

[xnorb]

So many posts and all of it just because some bored kiddies do stupid things.
"Muhahaha, look, how much fun it is running over my teammates with the tank"
"NO ! You don't get to hack that ! *Boom, Nade* Hahahahahaha"

That's why i'm against FF:on in public games.

Admins should have the ability to kick excessive TKers.

"Oh, it's F2P" - ya, but many people aren't willed making 100 mail addresses
for the plain purpose of TKing ...

[Xyntech]

Just make it ridiculously easy to get grief locked and banned if you TK with a new account. After level x and after x amount of hours logged into the game, your character starts earning grief points slightly slower and gets flagged for banning significantly slower.

So if you constantly TK and are a dick on an old account, you will still pretty quickly get banned, but if you TK a few times on a new account, you're fucked. Just give new players a big warning that this is going to happen, and offer an ability for players to forgive friendly fire, and it should be ok.

The extra hoops to either have to make a new account after TKing a guy just a few times, or to have to make a ton of accounts and level them up to a certain point just so they wont get banned instantly would probably be enough of a deterrent to take care of most of the problem. It's not like a player couldn't buy a few extra accounts in a subscription based game if they really wanted to harass someone without getting their main character banned. All you can do is mitigate, and I think harsher penalties on new accounts would be enough.

If a new player on a new account does get banned despite it being honest accidents that weren't forgiven, they can always make a new account and try again. If they are legitimately interested in playing the game and not griefing their team, they'll eventually manage to level up to a point where the penalties aren't so harsh. If they can't be bothered to learn the game or if they enjoy being a low level player griefing people, fuck em. There will be other, better free players to take their place.

[maddoggg]

Let's compare ps2 to ps1:
-f2p model(that means that when a troll gets banned,he doesnt loose real money,he looses 5 mins to make a new account)
-High popularity=A LOT of trolls and n00bs will hear about the game,come and try it for free and do their absolute best to ruin the expirience for everyone.
-Low TTK(TK on+spamable weapons+low TTK+n00bs=problem)


Ohh yea to say that ps2 grief system would need to adapt would be an understatement...

[n2q0_matrix]

a system where you can make people die and get greif by running infront of their fire? yes, verymuch so

I understand that. Granted in MW3 I have only had 1 person do that in the thousands of matches I have played in Ricochet. Which isn't to say it would happen more in PS as it probably would due to that environment.

But that is why I advocated for a hybrid of some sort.

A system that works on the frequency of occurrences and decay's over time.

So the first TK, the victim dies. If the TK'er shoots the victim again in the next 5 minutes, they take 100% of the damage and the victim takes none. From 5 to 10 minutes from first TK without any subsequent offense, the damage drops to 50% ricocheted back. After 10 it is reset and a TK is possible again.

Now this would be predicated on the Punish feature being selected of the FORGIVE / PUNISH / REPORT concept. If I get Friendly Fire TK'd by accident and I select FORGIVE, it would not go into effect.

So yeah....some variation or gradient of the above. If we can work out a logical solution that can be implemented via code and does not require a CSR/GM, then it is likely to be implemented as it saves SOE money. A self policing low abuse system is highly desirable.

I am not saying this is it, but I think we are at least heading the right direction.

:D