Tank balance thread (because magrider)

[Synapse]

I'm of the opinion that the Vanu magrider is seriously weak compared to the other tanks.

Driving over water might be a great advantage except that so far there is no bridge combat anywhere to be seen.

I also think that side strafing to avoid tank shells seems like literally trying to dodge a bullet as a MAX. No way you're going to do it. The vanu doesn't really have an advantage then, it's slower than TR, and has the weakest armor and gun damage of the three.

However instead of making a magrider thread I'm making a tank balance thread. Please vote for whichever tank you think is weakest (or if you think tanks are well balanced)

[Razicator]

There's a reason why in PS1 magriders were the best tanks in the hands of higher skilled people. The nonexistent arc on the shots, coupled with strafing and a higher elevation, meant that magriders are the snipers of tanks, except with high damaging high explosive shells. Magriders camping vehicle exits from hills meant no ground or air vehicles.

Just don't go 1v1 a vanguard at 10 meters, and you should do fine.

[Aurmanite]

Actually, the TR tank has the weakest armor.

This is a perfectly reasonable thread based upon the amount of time we've had to play the game.

[chunkeymonkey]

Really I can't comment on this because none of us (except the lucky ones at E3) have experienced a direct fight between a magrider - NC or TR tank. We can judge the balance when people are allowed into beta.

[Bags]

Amerish has water iirc, but yeah, you won't dodge with strafing. I couldn't get my friend to understand that, lol.

[Haro]

I'm of the opinion that the Vanu magrider is seriously weak compared to the other tanks.

Driving over water might be a great advantage except that so far there is no bridge combat anywhere to be seen.

I also think that side strafing to avoid tank shells seems like literally trying to dodge a bullet as a MAX. No way you're going to do it. The vanu doesn't really have an advantage then, it's slower than TR, and has the weakest armor and gun damage of the three.

However instead of making a magrider thread I'm making a tank balance thread. Please vote for whichever tank you think is weakest (or if you think tanks are well balanced)

It's hard to tell, but the magriders seemed to have their fair share of success in the demo. Not really sure where you are getting the idea that they have the least armor or the weakest weapon (fairly certain the low weapon strength will go to TR.) Not to mention, I wouldn't count out the value of strafing. You may not be dodging rounds, but for me the magrider control scheme seems easiest, and you could potentially use its abilities to get into better positions, while I think many tank drivers will need time to reconcile a more complicated method of driving while also rotating the turret.

Way too early to really tell though, but historically, VS has always been middle of the road with unusual bonuses.

[Synapse]

Actually, the TR tank has the weakest armor.

This is a perfectly reasonable thread based upon the amount of time we've had to play the game.

News to me, I remember the TR being middle in terms of armor.

[bullet]

I said this in another thread, its not so much about the balance 1v1, its how they do in specific situations against eachother. Like Razicator said when at close quarters, a Vanguard will probably win. Give the magrider some range or some rivers and the magrider will probably win.

[Kilmoran]

I'm of the opinion that the Vanu magrider is seriously weak compared to the other tanks.

Driving over water might be a great advantage except that so far there is no bridge combat anywhere to be seen.

I also think that side strafing to avoid tank shells seems like literally trying to dodge a bullet as a MAX. No way you're going to do it. The vanu doesn't really have an advantage then, it's slower than TR, and has the weakest armor and gun damage of the three.

However instead of making a magrider thread I'm making a tank balance thread. Please vote for whichever tank you think is weakest (or if you think tanks are well balanced)


Urban combat strafing is an advantage when trying to avoid damage too. Only the magrider can do that well and precisely.

[Virulence]

From what I've seen, all of the tanks seem a little too squishy at the moment.

[Xyntech]

It hasn't seemed ridiculously out of balance in the streams, so I think I'm going to have to test it myself before I can declare balance or imbalance.

Also remember that they haven't really even focused on balance very much at this point. So if they got the balance right on the 3 tanks right off the bat, it's mostly just luck.

I think the alternate styles will be quite capable of being balanced though. That part doesn't worry me too much.

[Malorn]

Mag has a big advantage that I didn't see used in the demo - strafing and always keeping strongest armor towards the threat

In a tank vs tank situation, the mag's strong front armor is always facing, meanwhile they can strafe to the sides for evasive action, or simply circle-strafe the other tank.

The terrain of the demo didn't seem particularly well suited for evasive tank maneuvers. All the tanks were sort of stuck on narrow roads in little canyons so not a lot of maneuverability for any of them.

[sylphaen]

Tank balance thread: I haven't seen a lot of secondary gunners for ground vehicles in TB's 3 day footage.

Gameplay seems to fast paced (tanks blow up on a whim) for people to even bother manning secondary guns. It could also have been due to the demo set-up. Damage from walls/rocks/trees at low speed is also ridiculously high for ground vehicles. Very alpha stuff. It made me think about the lightning bug from PS1 which was amusingly irritating.

The air and MAX gameplay though: :eek:

[Landtank]

I think the magrider having its forward armor constantly facing the enemy is a big advantage, especially if it strafes around the enemy and hits them in the weak rear armor.

[SUBARU]

From what I've seen, all of the tanks seem a little too squishy at the moment.

This

[Raymac]

The tight clausterphobic little area being used in the demo doesn't really play to the Magriders strengths. We all know how situational Planetside is, so I wouldn't write off the whole tank based on seeing it in 1 situation.

[bpostal]

IMHO It's better to have the thing working at 100% and then worry about balance once we get outfits fighting in these things.

[Knightwyvern]

What stops a couple lightening from running close circles around a mag and just killing it?

This logic can be applied to all the MBT, not just the Mag. A couple lightnings with good drivers should be able to take out a single MBT.

[Malorn]

We can also expect a demo to have a lot of air and MAX gameplay. MAX are relatively new to most FPS gamers trying out the game, so they are something neat and exciting to non-PS vets. Flying in other games is also limited to just a handful of vehicles and you usually have to wait in line. No lines in Planetside 2, so we see a lot of people trying that out because flying's neat and fun also.

Tanks and ground vehicle combat is not particularly new to FPS games so I think it's natural we see fewer of those tanks. I haven't actually seen any vanguards in the Day 1 footage, and only a few few prowlers. The magrider was a hover tank - that's new and cool, haven't been many of those which also explains why we saw quite a few of them.

The behavior I see makes complete sense given the audience playing the demo.

[Turdicus]

Well Sylphaen there was the point in the stream when the double manned vanguard was tearing it up for a while. The autocannon on the top absolutely wrecked air vehicles while the driver was able to focus on maneuvering for the best shots against tanks and infantry. I was impressed by that and it survived for quite some time

[Knightwyvern]

No, it really can't, TR and NC have movable turrets. A couple of drunks who just logged on can grab lightenings flank a mag and penetrate it's soft squishy arse at close range. Can't do that with TR and NC, their turrets MOVE.

And a Mag can TURN.

Mag has a big advantage that I didn't see used in the demo - strafing and always keeping strongest armor towards the threat

In a tank vs tank situation, the mag's strong front armor is always facing, meanwhile they can strafe to the sides for evasive action, or simply circle-strafe the other tank.

[Darkace]

One of the things that I liked the most about the original planetside was that you had to have two people to man a tank. The biggest disappointment of tanks in games is when it's a one person super weapon they have to be greatly nerfed down from their real capabilities as to not be overpowered for the game but if you add more players to make it effective that disapates it's "overpoweredness" to multiple players instead of just one person making sense that a single dismount wouldn't have the firepower to take down a vehicle on their own

[chanic]

No, it really can't, TR and NC have movable turrets. A couple of drunks who just logged on can grab lightenings flank a mag and penetrate it's soft squishy arse at close range. Can't do that with TR and NC, their turrets MOVE.

A.) Be in armor column with at least one other magrider or
B.) Have a gunner in your top turret. Preferably both.

Problem solved!

[ringring]

News to me, I remember the TR being middle in terms of armor.
That was ps1. I'm pretty sure that Matt had said the new prowler was fastest but had the weakest armour....

I haven't voted. I don't have enough information to have an opinion tbh.

[Figment]

Just change the Magrider into a Tank Destroyer already and create some more diverse fixed gun tanks for TR and NC and a new turret tank for VS.

[Zhane]

Other: There is no possible way to know yet.

[sylphaen]

Well Sylphaen there was the point in the stream when the double manned vanguard was tearing it up for a while. The autocannon on the top absolutely wrecked air vehicles while the driver was able to focus on maneuvering for the best shots against tanks and infantry. I was impressed by that and it survived for quite some time

That's good news ! It must have been in the part that I missed today. Thanks for the post.
:)

[Vagabond]

Why does this thread even exist? Only a small minority has actually played PS2. Wait until beta to see what needs balancing or not. There is just not enough information for us to even have an opinion on what is overpowered or not.

[Grognard]

In my opinion, the Mag is, and will be, a balanced Tank. I will explain why, instead of just declaring my opinion as fact... given there is a massive danger to this tank, playstyle-wise. Most vets know it, and it looks like its not going to change.

The Mag is the best tank at range, because it can engage at ranges more effectively than other tanks, with more accurate fire, and strafe to avoid fire, big surprise... However, the closer the enemy gets, the more danger the Mag is in, because the opposing fire will become more accurate, and the strafing will start to magnify the major problem I see with Mags, and that is...

The very thing that makes the Mag a long range gunners dream, makes it a close range driving nightmare, because to AIM you must face a SINGLE target, and all other opponents can focus on your back armor. This, is the achilles heel of the Mag, and so it should be, or it would be over powered. At all costs, you need to minimize that... or you can just respawn a lot.

So, playstyle-wise, when the Tanks are supported with combined arms, they are balanced, even/especially in numbers. A Mag driver simply cant charge other tanks, they need to engage other tanks. Mag drivers need to fight more like a fighter pilot than other tankers, because its a finesse tank, not a hammer.

[Knightwyvern]

VS mags can already strafe in PS1 in a tank versus tank situation. Fyi, it's not a winning advantage now with a mag with a MOVABLE main gun. So I humbly call b.s. that it will be a winning advantage with a fixed turret.

Whether or not it will be a winning advantage (it should be ~33% of the time) remains to be seen. I was simply replying to your previous post about how a few lightnings could just run circles around a Mag to kill it, and I was pointing out the fallacy in that argument, being that a few lightnings could do the same thing to either of the other tanks as well. They have movable turrets, and a Mag can turn; hence, in all practicality, a movable "turret."

[Knightwyvern]

:lol: Are you the rain man?

There are three empires, and if we had perfect balance, the Mag would win 33% of the time vs the other two. It was kind of meant to be tongue-in-cheek.

[Otleaz]

So this subject has been bugging me so I am going to bump this instead of making a new thread.

All of these people complaining about the fixed turret on the magrider have got me confused. I can't tell if I am misinterpreting something, or if is them.

The way I understand it, the Magrider IS the turret. The best way to imagine it is to picture that there is an invisible tank chassis below the Magrider, carrying it.

What is the difference? The Magrider goes the same speed in any direction, doesn't it?

[Littleman]

What is the difference? The Magrider goes the same speed in any direction, doesn't it?

This we don't know, but in a way, it'd have to for the purpose of handing off main gun control to a dedicated gunner. Still, that concept isn't any concrete proof. "Wait for beta."

We do know tanks have their strongest armor up front, and just watching Higby's latest stream, even a prowler's front armor seems to shrug off a Vanguard's direct hit, where a direct hit to the back pretty much blew out its engine causing it to discharge multiple plumes of smoke. The prowler is also supposed to have the weakest armor, so it can take a direct hit, from a Vanguard, to it's back side.

The strengths of the Magrider appear to be ease of use (essentially controls like a foot soldier) and keeping the armor facing the direction of the enemy the pilot is fighting. It sounds like a double edged sword - target one enemy only to expose the back to another - but the Magrider has many more movement options available to them. With a Vanguard or Prowler, you can pretty much predict which direction they'll be moving in once you determine their facing, and I doubt they could turn the chassis nearly as fast as a Magrider can.

Water hovering is something of a gimmick, even in PS1, but for the tech at the time was one of the only real advantages outside of the direct fire turret. The driver's pea shooter, while a unique feature at the time, wasn't worth sacrificing mobility to use.

[JesNC]

There's a minor difference between the Mag and the other MBTs that I've spotted (apart from the turret ofc):

The Vanguard and the Prowler have a co-axial MG, which can apparently be fired simultaneusly to the main gun. There's very little 1st person Magrider gameplay in the videos, but I've been through them a few times and I haven't seen anything like that on the Mag.

Now I'm just wondering if it gets something similar or if the main gun makes up for it in AI/AA effectiveness and/or DPM. Anyone got any more insight into this?

[TAA]

There is no need to worry about this. Balancing is not going to be done on a 1v1 basis but across all of the factions. It works something like this:


Get a full server of people fighting for a few weeks.
Figure out which side seems to be dominating most battles.
Run stats on the kills from those battles and figure out if any weapons are being favored by the players, what weapons are responsible for the biggest number of kills, and what it is that those weapons are killing so much of.
Apply slight changes in the characteristics of the weapons/vehicles on the winning or losing faction to see if that changes the performance of that faction in subsequent engagements.
Run more stats.

Even if magriders have huge shortcomings in certain situations that is not a problem. For example, maybe they will always lose against another tank in areas where they cant maneuver, but will hold their own in more open ground. That just means each faction will have to embrace The Art of War and attempt to control the terrain of engagements to match their strengths.

Alternatively maybe the Magriders will be great against infantry and suck against many other tanks, but the VS Scythes will dominate the skies to make up for it. Maybe their HA teams will be more powerful than the other factions and that would provide the balance.

I actually wish combat was even more asymmetrical than it is now. Refer to ET:QW for an excellent example of balanced asymmetrical warfare.

[MCYRook]

You guys aren't seriously discussing balance of specific equipment based on pre-Beta footage, are you? With a poll even?

Oh, you are. Well... carry on. :rolleyes:

[Kran De Loy]

Wait, where was it stated that the Prowler had the weakest overall armor? I thought it was the Mag, but the Mag has the bonus of being able to always face front rather than having to expose it's rear/sides to able to maneuver around like the Vanny or the Prowler.

Not including weapons (the weapons on the tanks are perfectly balanced imo). I figure that for balance reasons the Mag wont be able to strafe or reverse at top speed. I only hope they get better traction for maneuvering than they did in PS1.

Think of the Mag more like a tank that can turn it's forward armor to face any direction quickly while still keeping momentum in whichever direction it wants to be moving rather than thinking about it as a floating top half of a normal tank.

That means that the Mag trades Heavy Armoring and Top Spee.d/Acceleratio.n for this style of maneuvering. However in addition to those two trade offs it also has a fixed forward cannon so the Mag can ONLY fire at what it's facing.

[Shadowrath]

People can't really judge on the PS2 tanks however I personally think the Vanguard is the weakest.

[Azren]

I thought it was the Mag, but the Mag has the bonus of being able to always face front rather than having to expose it's rear/sides to able to maneuver around like the Vanny or the Prowler.

What is this BS I keep reading again and again? Since when is it a bonus to be forced in one position if you want to hit something? Also, since when can't the other tanks turn to enjoy the same "bonus"?

[Bruttal]

oddly i dont remember casting a vote here yet it shows that i have =/

EDIT: NM it was just closed

[ringring]

News to me, I remember the TR being middle in terms of armor.

.... blargh.... just realised this is a necro thread..

[Kran De Loy]

What is this BS I keep reading again and again? Since when is it a bonus to be forced in one position if you want to hit something? Also, since when can't the other tanks turn to enjoy the same "bonus"?

You didn't really read what you quoted, did you? Or at least didn't understand it.

Third section of the same post
"Think of the Mag more like a tank that can turn it's forward armor to face any direction quickly while still keeping momentum in whichever direction it wants to be moving rather than thinking about it as a floating top half of a normal tank."

Everyone else has to stop to make the same sharp turn that a Mag can. Sure the other tanks can turn while still moving but they can't make that same sharp about-face that a mag can all the while the mag can keep moving in whichever direction it wants to.

My two biggest problems is first with traction and second with the fixed mounted gun.

Moving like a bar of soap in a hockey rink does not equal maneuverability. Mag should have enough traction to chance directions quickly enough to keep itself competitive with the other MBTs.

As much as I hate the fixed gun mount I can see that it's a balance for that ability to face whichever direction we want quickly while maintaining that high maneuverability. However I believe that the Mag should have just as much side armoring as the Prowler or that the Mag should have a top turret mount like any sane designer would have made.

[PredatorFour]

In PS 1 you can dodge shells in a mag with strafing and probably will be able to do it in PS 2. You just have to keep yer distance, obviously you cant do it within 10 m of a vanguard but like someone said earlier you just dont get up close to the other empires tanks in a mag as you are a sniper tank.

With the drivers using the main gun i think we will see similiar gameplay traits to Dust 415 where people sit in tanks all the time and cain infantry. In that game you have to use rescources like in PS 2. Maybe in large scale combat we will see loads of tanks whoring kills and not going for the objectives. Whether thats good or bad, im not going to decide;)

[NoDachi]

Well the mag probably has the best applied DPM with good ROF and being the most accurate.

[Bruttal]

In PS 1 you can dodge shells in a mag with strafing and probably will be able to do it in PS 2. You just have to keep yer distance, obviously you cant do it within 10 m of a vanguard but like someone said earlier you just don't get up close to the other empires tanks in a mag as you are a sniper tank.

With the drivers using the main gun i think we will see similar game-play traits to Dust 415 where people sit in tanks all the time and cain infantry. In that game you have to use resources like in PS 2. Maybe in large scale combat we will see loads of tanks whoring kills and not going for the objectives. Whether that's good or bad, Im not going to decide;)

Well I have to say I don't think the new Magrider has the laser type cannon now, it lobs plasma shells so sniping doesn't work the same as it did in ps1. Also Dodging a shell that you cant see coming because of fixed view isn't even possible.

[PredatorFour]

Well I have to say I don't think the new Magrider has the laser type cannon now, it lobs plasma shells so sniping doesn't work the same as it did in ps1. Also Dodging a shell that you cant see coming because of fixed view isn't even possible.

Well of course you wont dodge a shell you cant see coming rofl. If you are looking at the tank you are duelling at a distance, you CAN dodge their shells, even with a fixed view.

Its a shame they changed the gun, they seemed to of changed most things that were good in the original ;(

[fod]

i still dont understand why they couldnt have just given the mag a normal turret
oh well im still going to kill everyone with it

[CutterJohn]

The one major weakness of the mag is NOT the locked forward gun. They can compensate for that with additional maneuverability.

The Magriders weakness will be its inability to fire from behind any cover at all, due to the low position of its barrel. Normal tanks have the turret up top for a reason.

[TAA]

What is this BS I keep reading again and again? Since when is it a bonus to be forced in one position if you want to hit something? Also, since when can't the other tanks turn to enjoy the same "bonus"?


Check out the hover tanks in BF2142. They were the same as the magrider - fixed forward facing turret, able to strafe, less armored than the tracked tanks on the opposing side.

They stood their own nicely. The ability to strafe is incredible. The main way a tracked tank avoids an enemy in a 1vs1 long range tank fight is to move back or forward. A hover tank can move erratically between shots, first moving diagnonally, then next time strafing sideways, next time backwards, etc. It is easy for the driver of a hover tank to compensate for his own movements because they know exactly how they moved in relation to the target. It is harder for the enemy to compensate for this erratic movement and hit a hover tank accurately. Furthermore in close or medium range a hover tank can strafe faster than a tracked tank can turn, meaning that the hover tank is always firing at the flanks or rear of the tracked tank but receiving fire against its front.

[Klockan]

Wait, where was it stated that the Prowler had the weakest overall armor? I thought it was the Mag, but the Mag has the bonus of being able to always face front rather than having to expose it's rear/sides to able to maneuver around like the Vanny or the Prowler.

Not including weapons (the weapons on the tanks are perfectly balanced imo). I figure that for balance reasons the Mag wont be able to strafe or reverse at top speed. I only hope they get better traction for maneuvering than they did in PS1.

Think of the Mag more like a tank that can turn it's forward armor to face any direction quickly while still keeping momentum in whichever direction it wants to be moving rather than thinking about it as a floating top half of a normal tank.

That means that the Mag trades Heavy Armoring and Top Spee.d/Acceleratio.n for this style of maneuvering. However in addition to those two trade offs it also has a fixed forward cannon so the Mag can ONLY fire at what it's facing.
Having a fixed cannon means that you can't keep your armor forward while aiming backwards etc, it is much easier to keep your front armor where you want it to be if you have a turret. The positive is that you can strafe, the negative is that your cannon is less maneuverable so it is harder to look around. Those two are roughly equal and thus the magrider doesn't have to be any weaker than the other tanks in PS2. In PS1 the magrider could both strafe and it had a movable turret so then it had to be weaker, but in PS2 there is no need to keep it weaker than the other tanks.

Check out the hover tanks in BF2142. They were the same as the magrider - fixed forward facing turret, able to strafe, less armored than the tracked tanks on the opposing side.

They stood their own nicely. The ability to strafe is incredible. The main way a tracked tank avoids an enemy in a 1vs1 long range tank fight is to move back or forward. A hover tank can move erratically between shots, first moving diagnonally, then next time strafing sideways, next time backwards, etc. It is easy for the driver of a hover tank to compensate for his own movements because they know exactly how they moved in relation to the target. It is harder for the enemy to compensate for this erratic movement and hit a hover tank accurately. Furthermore in close or medium range a hover tank can strafe faster than a tracked tank can turn, meaning that the hover tank is always firing at the flanks or rear of the tracked tank but receiving fire against its front.
The hover tanks in BF2142 weren't at all weaker than the tracked tanks, they had exactly the same stats except for one being hover and the other having a rotatable turret.

[CutterJohn]

Having a fixed cannon means that you can't keep your armor forward while aiming backwards etc, it is much easier to keep your front armor where you want it to be if you have a turret.


This is a tradeoff, not an advantage. The mag will be more maneuverable, and will be able to back up nicely.

Tanks have vulnerable rear armor, so a prowler or vanny running and shooting will expose that. A mag will not.

[Bruttal]

This is a tradeoff, not an advantage. The mag will be more maneuverable, and will be able to back up nicely.

Tanks have vulnerable rear armor, so a prowler or vanny running and shooting will expose that. A mag will not.

We better be able to drive in reverse as good as we can drive forward then just sayin ;)

[TAA]

The hover tanks in BF2142 weren't at all weaker than the tracked tanks, they had exactly the same stats except for one being hover and the other having a rotatable turret.

You know I think you are right. It has been quite a few years now. The Nekomata certainly was a better tank in the hands of skilled players.

[Kran De Loy]

The one major weakness of the mag is NOT the locked forward gun. They can compensate for that with additional maneuverability.

The Magriders weakness will be its inability to fire from behind any cover at all, due to the low position of its barrel. Normal tanks have the turret up top for a reason.

Really good point, I honestly forgot about that since hte last time I remember you mentioning it months ago.

Having a fixed cannon means that you can't keep your armor forward while aiming backwards etc, it is much easier to keep your front armor where you want it to be if you have a turret. The positive is that you can strafe, the negative is that your cannon is less maneuverable so it is harder to look around. Those two are roughly equal and thus the magrider doesn't have to be any weaker than the other tanks in PS2. In PS1 the magrider could both strafe and it had a movable turret so then it had to be weaker, but in PS2 there is no need to keep it weaker than the other tanks.
Just because my mag just got hit the arse does not make it impossible to about-face and throw the mag into reverse. All the while keeping the forward (now backward) momentum from a few seconds ago.

I doubt they'd allow for reverse and strafe moments on the mag to reach top speed but I would be surprised if they refused to let it go any higher than 75%. (I would prefer 100, but would settle for 90%).

I guess the part about not being able to look around would be valid, but I think it's gonna be one of those wait and see things. I mean if they have a fixed canon on the thing they sure as hell better not have made it so that I can't turn around with it as quick or quicker than the turret on either of the other MBT's.

Also a guess at another reason why they changed the Laser cannon into a Plasma Ball is the lowered TTK.

[TerminatorUK]

There's a reason why in PS1 magriders were the best tanks in the hands of higher skilled people. The nonexistent arc on the shots, coupled with strafing and a higher elevation, meant that magriders are the snipers of tanks, except with high damaging high explosive shells. Magriders camping vehicle exits from hills meant no ground or air vehicles.

Just don't go 1v1 a vanguard at 10 meters, and you should do fine.

This isn't true is PS2 though - the Magrider also has arcing projectiles so it won't have a snipibg advantage in this version.

However, I think tanks will be fairly well balanced against each other.

We really need to see 10-15 tanks with an infantry mix up to see how well they might be balanced

[MrKWalmsley]

Let's look at the Mag from a tactical standpoint regarding it's strafing ability. Here is a situation:
A tank is behind a building, and it knows an enemy tank is advancing towards them just around the corner.
The NC and TR tanks in that position would have to expose their weak flanks in order to quickly pop out of cover to destroy them.

The magrider could strafe out from cover, with it's frontal armour facing the oncoming tank, thereby making the action far safer, and with their good speed far quicker. Also the tank around the corner would see the tank in question a lot sooner, as a lot of the tank would need to be exposed before the turret itself gets in view, all people who play WoT knows what I mean. Whereas the mag using its strafe only has to expose it's width, rather than its length, making it a smaller target and meaning the other tank has less time to react.

Now, out on the field being on your toes is one of the keys to tank survival, so lets say you and an enemy are circling, as often happens, as you try to get behind the enemy. In this instance, the mag could just strafe around, only exposing it's frontal armour to the target, once again. Whereas the other tanks would require the exposition of their sides to do so.

This is why I utterly oppose Mags getting turrets, they are powerful enough. IMO they should stay as they are unless required through beta balancing issues.

[SgtExo]

Edit: ^^ said it better than me.

Anyone who has played BF 2142 will know that the hover tank with the fixed canon is as good as the tracked one with the turret (and I found that it was better). With the mag you can easily go into and out of cover to shoot at the enemy without exposing your side like in a normal tank.

[ParisTeta]

Everything (except taking hits) the Scyth can do better then a Magrider. Scythe is highly mobile, and when looking some video, faster TTK vs tanks then tanks themself. Versatile, can get in many advantage positions, high escape chance. Everytime to you spawn a mag, you better spawned a Scythe. Protecting Infantry while advancing forward? TR and NC has turrets to protect flanks, Mags, only can drive forward.

Scythe is the new Magrider, we don`t need no Tanks.

[MrKWalmsley]

Mags, only can drive forward.

Are you joking? Mags can drive side to side, which makes them more versatile in combat than the other tanks, plus the turn speed ect makes it turn even quicker than a turret! Its exactly the same as a regular tank, just performed in a different way.

[noxious]

Everything (except taking hits) the Scyth can do better then a Magrider. Scythe is highly mobile, and when looking some video, faster TTK vs tanks then tanks themself. Versatile, can get in many advantage positions, high escape chance. Everytime to you spawn a mag, you better spawned a Scythe. Protecting Infantry while advancing forward? TR and NC has turrets to protect flanks, Mags, only can drive forward.

Scythe is the new Magrider, we don`t need no Tanks.

Do you not understand that the Magrider can move in a straight line while simultaneously rotating its turret a full 360 degrees? The only difference between a Magrider and the other tanks is that the Magrider will also rotate its entire chassis 360 degrees at the same time. While doing this, it can still maintain a constant velocity (ie, it does not change direction).

[ParisTeta]

Moveable turret is a more stable gunning platform, also so higher gunpoint helps, shooting over smaller rocks. Yeah Mag is agile? And? The more Mag you have in an area, the more space is needed or they get in the way of each other. So i can strafe sideway and look another direction...so can every other tank, the question is, is the strafe speed as fast as driving just forward? [Sidenote: IF there will be a cert that the main gun can be used by gunner, MAG is at an disadvantge again, low fixed gunpoint].

It`s a tank destroyer and not a tank, it`s primary function is very very likely weak. 5 Mag vs 5 Scyth, the later will proably more effective.

[TheApoc]

i wouldnt count out the strafe, one missed shot means a lot, esp sniping.. If you strafe to the back side & shoot in a van in the ass its a big hit even if the mag gets hit in the nose..

[Klockan]

Just because my mag just got hit the arse does not make it impossible to about-face and throw the mag into reverse. All the while keeping the forward (now backward) momentum from a few seconds ago.
For all we know a tank could get killed by one shot to the rear. Then you couldn't do that.

I doubt they'd allow for reverse and strafe moments on the mag to reach top speed but I would be surprised if they refused to let it go any higher than 75%. (I would prefer 100, but would settle for 90%).

I guess the part about not being able to look around would be valid, but I think it's gonna be one of those wait and see things. I mean if they have a fixed canon on the thing they sure as hell better not have made it so that I can't turn around with it as quick or quicker than the turret on either of the other MBT's.

Also a guess at another reason why they changed the Laser cannon into a Plasma Ball is the lowered TTK.
Turning speeds and strafing speeds is a balance concern, the point is that these can be set so that a magrider is equal tp the standard tanks. If the magrider turns as fast as the turret and got full strafe speed then it is imbalanced. If the magrider turns with the same speed as the normal tank bodies and got low acceleration due to hovering being a worse propellant then it would be a worse tank. You wouldn't be able to dodge shots since you can't change direction on the fly and you would have serious issues at close quarters since you turn slowly and with slow acceleration you can't react to threats. That also means that if you try to strafe around a tank he could just turn himself just as fast as you turn around making you always hit the front.

There is a middle ground where strafe tanks and turret tanks are equal without needing to make them have different armor values or different damage values, just by altering the inherent advantages. Ie not making strafes go at 100% speed and it having low acceleration, or making the turret turn way faster than the tank.

[Doorbo]

As for the magrider, i believe it will be OP. For the secondary weapon as seen in the PCG issue, you can equip it with the rail beam cannon, the same gun that was on the turret for the PS1 mag. That will give it an AV turret that can swivel, controlled by the secondary gunner, while still having mobility that the driver can focus on. Just for old times sake we can put an AI gun for the driver, and now you have a magrider true to PS1.
My opinion stated in another thread

[CutterJohn]

As for the magrider, i believe it will be OP. For the secondary weapon as seen in the PCG issue, you can equip it with the rail beam cannon, the same gun that was on the turret for the PS1 mag. That will give it an AV turret that can swivel, controlled by the secondary gunner, while still having mobility that the driver can focus on. Just for old times sake we can put an AI gun for the driver, and now you have a magrider true to PS1.


All tanks will have a choice of powerful AV, AA, or AI weapons for the turret up top. It won't be some special ability of the Magrider.