There's an element to PS2's "simplification" that isn't about attracting casuals

[WorldOfForms]

I was thinking about the fewer vehicles and fewer continents, and having recently entered game development myself, it hit me: it's because the game is free to play.

Even aside from PS1's subscription, the game itself cost $50. What this meant was that the development cost of all those features at launch got immediately recouped with the initial purchase. Then there was the guaranteed revenue of subscriptions.

If PS2 tried to have ten continents and all those vehicles, the initial cost would be too risky for a game that generates zero revenue from the outset.

Also, because of the F2P model, the devs MUST provide lots of customization options, which takes dev time that could have been spent on those continents and vehicles we want so much. So it's also a shifting of dev resources.

Finally, they need more space to grow than PS1, content-wise. PS1 could sprinkle in new features just enough to keep people subbed, but PS2 will need to keep a steady stream of new stuff for people to buy. By starting with a small set of features, that gives the devs room to learn from the players: what are people buying, what classes/vehicle/continents do they play with the most? Then they can use that data to determine how to add new features.

Bottom line: PS2 may seem simple right now, but if the model works, it's possible the game will become much more complex than PS1, given some time.

[JPalmer]

It has fewer conts. because launching with ten would be absurd. And every time they add a new one they can do a whole ad campaign to get more people in or get people who get bored to come back.

It has fewer vehicles because some were just begging to be combined.

[Nash]

Err,... duh. :P

[Dreamcast]

Makes Perfect sense.


Seems like they want to do money fast too since Planetside is suppose to launch this year.



Also one of the ways League of Legends makes money is by selling new champs.....So New weapons/Vehicles are going to be a good way to make money.

[DerFurst]

Even more the reason for us to support this game. I don't think any of us will have a problem doing that.

[Mastachief]

yes

[Xyntech]

I'd also mention that it's a sequel, not a remake.

Some of these changes are straight up simplification. Good or bad, some things are being made more simple.

However I believe that other things aren't being made more simple, just different. We can't yet see the complexity because we haven't gotten our hands on the game yet. The only legitimate comparison we have to a game of this style is the first Planetside, so obviously any changes are going to be a big unknown for us.

I would urge people to temper their fears and doubts with the understanding that with so many changes, we don't really know how good or bad some things will work. Thins aren't being changed in a vacuum. It's not like this is the first Planetside + regenerating shields on everyone. It's a whole new game, like a new ecosystem, where all of the different elements work together in a new way.

The developers have had more hands on time to make sure this stuff works together. At the same time, they have stated that they are waiting for data to roll in from beta to perfect the balance and add/remove some features.

I would suggest that players maintain the same outlook as the devs. Wait for data from the beta before freaking out.

At the same time, don't stop discussing and debating and speculating and throwing ideas out there. Some things we may not know, but other things may be more certainly or likely or obviously broken. Also, some things may not be broken, but we as fans just prefer it a certain way, and we need to let the developers know through our frequent discussions that it's important to us. They will probably be able to oblige is in a lot of areas, even if it's only a compromise.

[Malorn]

Simplification is good. That makes it easier to learn the more complicated parts, like capture mechanics, territory control, and resources.

And some stuff really needed simplifying. PS1 had a steep learning curve and that impacted new player retention in a bad way.

[Bags]

PS1 didn't launch with all the vehicles it has now.

[NapalmEnima]

I was thinking about the fewer vehicles and fewer continents, and having recently entered game development myself, it hit me: it's because the game is free to play.

Congratulations on the career change. I made that switch from business programming myself last November. Still grinning. My face hurts.

It's not just free to play. The level of detail an AAA title needs in order to be competitive is VASTLY higher than it once was, such that even with spiffy modern tools (z-brush springs to mind) it still takes more time to generate the content.


PS1 didn't launch with all the vehicles it has now.

Nor features, weapons, caves, BFRs. For good or ill, Less Stuff.

[bjorntju1]

Don't forget everything is much more detailed. So it takes much more work to make something than 9 years ago. Just look at a continent in PS2 that we have now, and a continent in PS1 that we had 9 years back.

[WorldOfForms]

PS1 didn't launch with all the vehicles it has now.

Yes, I remember, but the number on launch was bigger than what we have now:

PS2

Liberator
MBTs
Heavy Air Cav
Sunderer
Galaxy
Lightning
Quad

PS1
Reaver
Mosquito
MBTs
Sundy
Gal
Buggies
Deliverers
Lightning
Quads
ANT
AMS
Did I miss something?

I know that part of the reduced number is reducing redundancy, but clearly another element is less dev time modeling and designing separate assets.

[Aurmanite]

Almost every system in Planetside is deeper and more complex than the original.

"Simplified" and "dumbed down" are catch phrases/buzz words for people that want to seem like they have a valuable opinion.

[Bobby Shaftoe]

Almost every system in Planetside is deeper and more complex than the original.

Having 'certs' to swap seats faster isn't my idea of 'useful' deepness nor complexity.

Does it even count if you can eventually get it all anyway? Inb4 'hurr BR40', yes, something that was added at the very end of PS1 life, not implemented from the start.

[Inverness]

Almost every system in Planetside is deeper and more complex than the original.I won't say that yet until we know about how many different ways there are to capture bases and how many different tactics are available for that, because I haven't seen a generator or NTU silo yet.

[wraithverge]

Yes, I remember, but the number on launch was bigger than what we have now:

PS2

Liberator
MBTs
Heavy Air Cav
Sunderer
Galaxy
Lightning
Quad

PS1
Reaver
Mosquito
MBTs
Sundy
Gal
Buggies
Deliverers
Lightning
Quads
ANT
AMS
Did I miss something?

I know that part of the reduced number is reducing redundancy, but clearly another element is less dev time modeling and designing separate assets.

uhh... I think you have it wrong, no offense meant, but there is a flaw in your logic. I'll do a quick comparison just on the air cav vehicles.

PS1
Reaver
Mosquito


PS2
main air, versions which can be effectively new vehicles, standard anti air, loadout front gun, anti ground rockets.

Now each of these combinations is a new type of air cav compared to ps1.

nose: anti air, anti ground, anti infantry, 3
pods: anti air, anti ground, anti infantry, 3
Additions confirmed: ejection seat one, ejection seat two, chaff/flares, regen kit, 4.

this leaves 3*3*4 different combinations with no repeats. So effectively ps2 has 28 different air cav alone, while ps1 had two.

Main argument against this: ps1 had different stats.
This is invalidated by the theory that get enough certs and you can unlock stats modifiers, this is confirmed on the lightning, and most likely true for air cav as well.

wasp = slightly faster mosquito with better turns, AA nose cannon, AA missiles less armor.

take main air, AA nose, AA pods, add bail, stat spec, +speed/-armor mod. I believe we have a wasp.

Theoretically, there are infinitely more vehicles in ps2 then ps1, they all just have almost the exact same texture.

[WorldOfForms]

uhh... I think you have it wrong, no offense meant, but there is a flaw in your logic. I'll do a quick comparison just on the air cav vehicles.

PS1
Reaver
Mosquito


PS2
main air, versions which can be effectively new vehicles, standard anti air, loadout front gun, anti ground rockets.

Now each of these combinations is a new type of air cav compared to ps1.

nose: anti air, anti ground, anti infantry, 3
pods: anti air, anti ground, anti infantry, 3
Additions confirmed: ejection seat one, ejection seat two, chaff/flares, regen kit, 4.

this leaves 3*3*4 different combinations with no repeats. So effectively ps2 has 28 different air cav alone, while ps1 had two.

Main argument against this: ps1 had different stats.
This is invalidated by the theory that get enough certs and you can unlock stats modifiers, this is confirmed on the lightning, and most likely true for air cav as well.

wasp = slightly faster mosquito with better turns, AA nose cannon, AA missiles less armor.

take main air, AA nose, AA pods, add bail, stat spec, +speed/-armor mod. I believe we have a wasp.

Theoretically, there are infinitely more vehicles in ps2 then ps1, they all just have almost the exact same texture.

I was talking about dev time to develop something. It takes more time to design two entirely different aircraft than to design two aircraft that are slightly different.

This is man-hours I'm talking about. Developing a Scythe and the PS2 Reaver is different from the PS1 Mosquito and the PS1 reaver. They are different classes of aircraft.

It takes fewer man-hours to create a single customizable vehicle than to create two separate vehicles. It takes more time to create two classes of vehicle rather than one class that has slightly different characteristics.

Sure, from an art standpoint the three PS2 aircraft models took more work than the two models from PS1, but from a design and balance standpoint, that's totally different.

Regardless, talking aircraft is just cherry-picking. Consider that PS2 doesn't have vehicle enter/exit animations, and the devs said it would take 6 months to do those. That's considering animations on far fewer models of vehicles than PS1 had.

I'm trying to look at the overall picture of dev time and cost. Clearly they had to cut corners for the F2P model, but I'm saying that's not necessarily a bad thing.

[kaffis]

It's also worth noting that the amount of development time put into PS1's continents was probably pretty low. They land was all procedurally generated. PS2 is handcrafting continents.

[The Degenatron]

I think SOE is going to be making money right out of the gate with PS2. In fact, I can tell you that PS2 has already generated some revenue from myself. The day I heard about the PS2 I resubbed to PS1. I've had my sub running on PS1 for about 10 months now.

When the PS2 store goes live, I'm going to reallocate that $15 a month to PS2. If they sell merch, I'm buying that too.

I know I'm not the only one.

SOE is going to be raking in money wth this beast.

[CrystalViolet]

There's also the fact that the development time and cost for high fidelity graphics and gameplay is much much higher than it was in 2003. Making a continent Like Indar is probably equivalent to the amount of work it would take to make 30 continents in PS1.

[Knightwyvern]

There's also the fact that the development time and cost for high fidelity graphics and gameplay is much much higher than it was in 2003. Making a continent Like Indar is probably equivalent to the amount of work it would take to make 30 continents in PS1.

I might not say 30 :P but hyperbole is ok and this is generally very true. Making high quality games gets more and more expensive; you need bigger teams meaning more wages, higher fidelity graphics which have a longer production cycle, a lot more hardware testing due to a much larger pool of availability, the larger scale required a completely new high end game engine to be built, etc.

Expensive, time consuming, and difficult. Here's a great T-Ray quote pulled from an MMORPG interview he did at E3:

Planetside 2 is an evolving game. It is never "done." It is always something that we can continue to make better, and if people give us feedback we can implement that feedback if it is for the betterment of the game.

Sums it up nicely.

[Xyntech]

Just a quick note, but the Liberator was not included in PS1 at launch.

Another note, but something like the Deliverer variants were counted as separate vehicles in the first Planetside, so by that definition, Planetside has a lot more vehicles than the first game. But I'll be the first to admit that those aren't really new vehicles.

I would certainly argue that ES vehicles count towards the unique vehicle number. So while PS2 is lacking the 4 buggies (at PS1 launch), the addition of the Scythe does lighten this loss a tiny bit.

The actual number is lower, but the effective roles have not been reduced much. I'd rather have fewer vehicles that were more useful than have a bunch of vehicles with marginal usefulness. Prefer a Harasser to your ES buggy in the first game? Tweak the handling of your buggy to match what you want in PS2. Want an AA buggy? Toss an AA gun on your buggy. Of course PS2 doesn't have buggies, but I'd love to see them added post launch. The same idea still applies to other vehicles. Enough customization makes them play like radically different vehicles for the most part.

I don't doubt that they are consolidating vehicles together to save on development time, but I don't think that's inherently bad or dumbing the game down. I think there are other legitimate upshots to both combining some of them, as well as to the extensive customization options they are implementing to help compensate for the losses.

Besides, as others have mentioned, there is lots of time post release to add all sorts of new vehicles. I have little doubt that Planetside will far exceed the current number of PS1 vehicles within a couple years at most, even if you count things like the deliverer variants from PS1 as separate vehicle but only consider unique chassis to be new vehicles in PS2.

I believe that PS2 will have as much depth or more than the first game currently has by the time PS2 officially launches, and I believe that the depth will grow as the game continues to generate money and receive well thought out updates. Beta may still have some kinks, but between the awesome and attentive dev team and the dedicated fan base, I think we'll get it all hammered out before release.