Quick Knife - Is it really the best option?

[Zekeen]

For those of you who have seen the E3 demo, you have seen that currently there is a quick knife in the game, frequently ending up used instead of hacking. Now, most likely quick knifing isn't an insta kill, but a damaging attack. Never the less, is a quick knife a very good thing to have? The very nature of a quick-knife, is a feeling of a rushed game with overly unnatural character reaction. It seems like a teleporting knife with such a fast swing with a weapon that was not in the hand before. Really, what it looks like, is the weapon transforming into the knife and back. It feels unnatural.

As you can see, what I'm more concerned on, is not the quick-melee, but the quick-KNIFE.

Nitpicky? A bit, but I think my problems are a bit grounded. Quick-Knife is nothing but a terrible copy-cat of modern games. Come on devs, you don't have to be original, but don't do THIS! There should be a lot more out there that can make it fit in more.

The solution:

Rather than a quick knife, how about a rifle-bash? It works much more fluidly, the weapon doesn't leave the screen, you can get the attack in the same time frame, but it doesn't have to go as far, so it looks less rushed.

Not only does it take care of the quick-melee, but it allows the knife to be used in much more damaging and stealthy roles - equipped like a main weapon. Sure, it might be doing it like PS1, but it makes the knife a much hardier weapon, and then there's the case of the knife-alt fire, to increase damage.

Finally, if you devs want to see a knife in quick-melee, JUST USE A BAYONET! Effective, brutal, AND logical. Just make it a mod.

Well that's my two cents on this minor issue.

What do you guys think?

[Sabot]

I'm a firm believer that if you have to use a knife, you've done something very wrong to begin with... However, the optin of a melee attack must be there. So I'm going with equip a knife if that's what you want to use. And I'm not totally against an insta kill knife attack from behind or something like that... but only if you have to equip it before using it.... ook maybe not insta kill but a large amount of damge to you HP... i.e the knife ignore shields on infantry or if there's no shields, it can be explained by finding weak spots in the armor. But then only on infantry.. not on MAXes.

[Zekeen]

I'm a firm believer that if you have to use a knife, you've done something very wrong to begin with... However, the optin of a melee attack must be there. So I'm going with equip a knife if that's what you want to use. And I'm not totally against an insta kill knife attack from behind or something like that... but only if you have to equip it before using it.... ook maybe not insta kill but a large amount of damge to you HP... i.e the knife ignore shields on infantry or something like that.

Don't forget, in PS1, there was the alt fire of a knife that would shoot the damage up a lot, by turning on it's power supply to make a very loud racket, maybe add in some visual change too for PS2.

[Sabot]

Don't forget, in PS1, there was the alt fire of a knife that would shoot the damage up a lot, by turning on it's power supply to make a very loud racket, maybe add in some visual change too for PS2.

Absolutely... that would be even better imo. Maybe we don't even need the alt fire option on it at all.. I mean, there was little to no point in trying to knife someone down without using the alt fire in PS1. Of course it's a nice option to have if you're a cloaker... meh, simply go PS1 style tbh. That would be the best imho.

[Zekeen]

I still say, if we DO take out quick-melee, let it be MODDED in. Having to attach a bayonet, you DESERVE to stab people! That would make it much more balanced.

But it also looks so retarded right now, people just start swinging, trying to hit the right key to hack or use a terminal.... just terrible.

[Death2All]

Why are people so adamant on incorporating melee into shooter games? Sometimes I feel alone with my hatred for melee.

[Bags]

Why are people so adamant on incorporating melee into shooter games? Sometimes I feel alone with my hatred for melee.

~

[Zekeen]

Why are people so adamant on incorporating melee into shooter games? Sometimes I feel alone with my hatred for melee.

It's not all bad, but people really do try to make it a necessity in everything, which is messed up. I think it fits fine for a stealth kill, but nothing quick-melee for that sort of deal. As I said, it'd be fine if you had to mod it in, it's an alternative combat technique, and would be MUCH more enjoyable if melee specialists had to attach a piece for that sort of deal.

[Phellix]

Why are people so adamant on incorporating melee into shooter games? Sometimes I feel alone with my hatred for melee.

Agreed, Only time you should use melee(IMO) is when you're, 1) Completely out of ammo, 2) You've unloaded your magazine and your pistols magazine, or 3) for messing around with your own faction or having some fun with an enemy 1v1. Or a cloaker obviously but FPS's have catered too much to melee attacks within the last couple of years and made it very annoying.

Although, I don't think the modern day quick knife would do anything extreme at the kind of scale planetside brings unless cloakers could abuse it, so whatever.

[Bags]

I;'ve gotten more kills on people trying to melee in BF3 than I've died to it, so let the idiots have their quick knife.

[Zekeen]

I;'ve gotten more kills on people trying to melee in BF3 than I've died to it, so let the idiots have their quick knife.

Yeah.. but quick-knife LOOKS TERRIBLE. It's an awful mechanic for a game as detailed and beautiful as PS2. It feels VERY out of place. Anything would be better.

[Alanim]

Why are people so adamant on incorporating melee into shooter games? Sometimes I feel alone with my hatred for melee.

Melee is added for those very awkward moments when either one player is out of ammo in both guns or BOTH players are out of ammo, when that happens if you don't have melee the best you can do is look at each other and walk away, melee prevents that.

Oh, and for when both players are reloading aswell.

[therandomone]

Personally, I'm against the rifle bash because I love the feeling of successfully bringing a knife to a gun fight. Sure it is slightly animalistic, but I feel like a goddamn champ when I can pull it off. Also, I think it'd be incredibly stupid to have it not 1-hit kill your opponent because why the hell would you use a knife to begin with then? I seem to be one against the world with having it be a 1-hit kill but again logistically it is easily feasible to kill someone with one hit from a knife and anyone who says otherwise clearly has little to no experience with knives (except for maybe cutting their food). I'll give three simple scenarios to explain why:

Scenario 1: If I'm behind you with a knife.
In this scenario I would knife upwards around the neck towards the skull, in doing so I sever the brain stem. By severing the brain stem you cut off motor function and basic functions like breathing. Outcome: You die.

Scenario 2: If I'm in front of you with a knife.
In this scenario I would thrust my knife through the spaces in your rib cage stabbing the heart (for added fun I give it a little twist and turn). Statistics say IF you receive immediate care (say, from a hospital) you have about a 33% chance of survival,we're on a battlefield and something tells me there are no hospital facilities on Auraxis that you can be carted of to. Outcome: You die.

Universal scenario: I'm in front or behind you with a knife.
There is also a stab that can work from either direction. Simply take the knife and thrust it downward into the soft part of the flesh in between the collar bone on the left side in close proximity of the neck toward the heart (once again, for added fun I can give it a little twist and turn). Once again, it ends up with a knife in your heart. Of course if you wanted to be tricky you could do it from the right side and angle it (though that of course takes a slightly longer blade). Outcome: You die. (Fun fact: this was a favorite of the Romans for execution because when done right you're dead before you hit the ground).

Needless to say, to not have people who are supposed to be soldiers unable to kill someone with a knife in 1 hit is absolutely preposterous. I will say I do support you having to switch to your knife though. If they unfortunately decided to keep the "quick knife", I still suggest they keep the 1-hit kill because it is easily possible and like I explained most plausible to kill someone that way.

[Memeotis]

There was a similar discussion on the dust beta forums, where I personally argued for the quick knife, since having to equip the knife would be a terrible mechanic for when playing with a controller. Then someone came up with the suggestion that quick-knife should remain, but holding down the knife button would equip the knife (BF3-style), and when the knife has been equipped the time in between swipes would be lower.

I thought this was a great idea.

[WNxThentar]

I'm not a fan of a quick knife. If you want a knife kill then put away your weapon and pull out your knife. I wouldn't be against some rifle melee but on the provision that there is a delay after before shooting again or just a wildly large cone of fire and shouldn't be as damaging as a bullet. In theory you should be able to pistol whip someone but....

All this said and done I don't think knives are not going to be as important unless you are just out of ammo. With positional damage a head shot from 2 feet away should be devastating enough.

I guess the only thing I can think of is for infiltrators getting some kind of silent kill.

[Mechzz]

Quick-knife from nowhere is a lame mechanic.

It should be a button press to equip and another to slash. And no teleporting!

I also like the bayonet idea, that could be the auto-attack mode if you press fire with an empty magazine.

[WNxThentar]

Why are people so adamant on incorporating melee into shooter games? Sometimes I feel alone with my hatred for melee.

I don't mind the idea of it for cloakers and if you are out of ammo. Personally a silenced weapon mod would be nice for a cloaker, and maybe not having to grunt when jumping all the time.

[WNxThentar]

Melee is added for those very awkward moments when either one player is out of ammo in both guns or BOTH players are out of ammo, when that happens if you don't have melee the best you can do is look at each other and walk away, melee prevents that.

Oh, and for when both players are reloading aswell.

It is also useful under water where weapons can't fire.

[Mechzz]

I don't mind the idea of it for cloakers and if you are out of ammo. Personally a silenced weapon mod would be nice for a cloaker, and maybe not having to grunt when jumping all the time.

Yeah, on the grunting it sounds like they hired female tennis professionals to do the voice acting for jumping cloakers :)

[WNxThentar]

Anyone who supports quick knives needs to be deported to Australia.

How is that bad? I'm an American with dual citizenship living in Australia. The economy over here is good. The women are gorgeous. Sure we pay more for some computer games but I can live with that given the rest of the life style :)

[WVoneseven]

Equipable Knife is how it should be done.... like HL or TF2 or anything better than the cod gen quickknife

[Otleaz]

Only reason to have melee is so you don't have that awkward moment where you can't do anything when out of ammo. I wouldn't mind seeing melee, just make it useless.

[Immigrant]

As you can see, what I'm more concerned on, is not the quick-melee, but the quick-KNIFE.

Nitpicky? A bit, but I think my problems are a bit grounded. Quick-Knife is nothing but a terrible copy-cat of modern games. Come on devs, you don't have to be original, but don't do THIS! There should be a lot more out there that can make it fit in more.

The solution:

Rather than a quick knife, how about a rifle-bash? It works much more fluidly, the weapon doesn't leave the screen, you can get the attack in the same time frame, but it doesn't have to go as far, so it looks less rushed.

Not only does it take care of the quick-melee, but it allows the knife to be used in much more damaging and stealthy roles - equipped like a main weapon. Sure, it might be doing it like PS1, but it makes the knife a much hardier weapon, and then there's the case of the knife-alt fire, to increase damage.

Finally, if you devs want to see a knife in quick-melee, JUST USE A BAYONET! Effective, brutal, AND logical. Just make it a mod.

Well that's my two cents on this minor issue.

What do you guys think?

I like the quick knife tbh... rifle bash would be cool also however what about those times you don't have a rifle but a pistol, heal-gun, rocket launcher or something else...

So I would go for the following scheme:

1. IF equipped with heavy weapons like MCG or rocket launcher THEN no quick melee is available at all

2. IF equipped with rifle (SMG or assault or carbine) THEN quick melee should be rifle butt bash

3. IF equipped with pistol or other small utility tool THEN quick melee should be knife but knife stays equipped after the first quick blow

Also it could be done that the default quick melee is rifle butt bash and quick knife is certifiable later on if you wish. I won't vote for now but I'm definitely pro-quick melee of some sort as long as the damage dealt by it isn't unreasonable..

[WNxThentar]

Personally, I'm against the rifle bash because I love the feeling of successfully bringing a knife to a gun fight....

... I can tell you from being a US Marine for 6 years that anywhere I can kill you with a knife I can kill you faster and easier with a pistol. I can also tell you that in hand to hand combat unless they have no idea you are there your chance for a one stab kill is greatly reduced. I've been trained for combat with my K-Bar but I'd never pick it over a silenced weapon for a stealth kill. If stealth isn't needed I'd definitely not even think about pulling out my K-Bar and I'd put at least 3 rounds from my M1911 into my target.

Don't get me wrong. I like to play with my K-Bar and I was very good with it. Could reliably stick it in a tree 15 feet away and I could even juggle it flipping in around and I've never had anything but a nick from doing tricks . Looked very cool but again...not my preferred method of combat.

Being a trained as an A gunner for a M60E3 I had the choice of the M1911 or the M9. I picked the M1911. Less rounds in the clip but changing clips was fast and I'd rather hit a target 10 feet away with a few .45cal then a bunch of 9mm rounds. That was just my preference tho. And if I was out of ammo in my M60E3 and my M1911 would I go for my K-Bar? I'd probably just swing my machine gun at them.

[SztEltviz]

Anyone who supports quick knives needs to be deported to Australia.

Douglas Adams: Salmon of Doubt
The journey took about an hour, streaking effortlessly over the dark
and gleaming sea under a brilliant sun. Smaller lush green islands slid past us
in the distance. I watched the long wake of water folding back into the sea
behind us, sipped at my champagne, and thought of an old bridge that I know
in Sturminster Newton in Dorset. It still has a cast-iron notice bolted to it hat
warns anybody thinking of damaging or defacing the bridge in any way that
the penalty is transportation. To Australia. Now, Sturminster Newton is a
lovely town, but it astonishes me that the bridge is still standing.

Jane, who is much better at reading guide books than I am (I always read
them on the way back to see what I missed, it’s often quite a shock),
discovered something wonderful in the book she was reading. Did I know,
she asked, that Brisbane was originally founded as a penal colony for
convicts who committed new offences after they had arrived in Australia?

I spent a good half hour enjoying this single piece of information. It was
wonderful. There we British sat, poor grey sodden creatures, huddling under
our grey northern sky that seeped like a rancid dish cloth, busy sending
those we wished to punish most severely to sit in bright sunlight on the
coast of the Tasman Sea at the southern tip of the Great Barrier Reef and
maybe do some surfing too. No wonder the Australians have a particular kind
of smile that they reserve exclusively for use on the British.

[SaeS]

I wouldn't mind if the knife would be a 1-hit kill but only from behind (no MAXes) and reduced dmg from side/front. It would bring a nice little stealthy option for people (mostly infs) and because infs aren't gonna be fully invisible, I don't see that much of a problem with it. I just wouldn't want to see some CoD panic-knifing, I think that's just silly. Equip knife-->stabby stabby.

If you're not aware what's happening 6feet around you, you deserve to get knifed, it's just that you will have to get in touch range to be able to pull off that knife kill. Usually if you get knifed, you probably did something wrong or were a little sloppy. Take that moment with you and learn from it...

Okeyh, maybe that last one was a little trollish but I think you get the idea :rolleyes:

Cheers~

[Dart]

Quick knife is the most jarring thing currently in the game!

[Sledgecrushr]

It seems that when it comes to melee that BF3 is the golden standard and thats not necessarily what I want. I want a mass effect 3 style energy sword that is created out of tour right gauntlet. To do a quick attack you merely swing your rifle out of the way with your left hand and think about creating your energy weapon. This should be where melee ends up at, beautiful fast and simple to use. Because here in the future, all things are possible through sci fi.

[Ductape]

For those of you who have seen the E3 demo, you have seen that currently there is a quick knife in the game, frequently ending up used instead of hacking. Now, most likely quick knifing isn't an insta kill, but a damaging attack. Never the less, is a quick knife a very good thing to have? The very nature of a quick-knife, is a feeling of a rushed game with overly unnatural character reaction. It seems like a teleporting knife with such a fast swing with a weapon that was not in the hand before. Really, what it looks like, is the weapon transforming into the knife and back. It feels unnatural.

As you can see, what I'm more concerned on, is not the quick-melee, but the quick-KNIFE.

Nitpicky? A bit, but I think my problems are a bit grounded. Quick-Knife is nothing but a terrible copy-cat of modern games. Come on devs, you don't have to be original, but don't do THIS! There should be a lot more out there that can make it fit in more.

The solution:

Rather than a quick knife, how about a rifle-bash? It works much more fluidly, the weapon doesn't leave the screen, you can get the attack in the same time frame, but it doesn't have to go as far, so it looks less rushed.

Not only does it take care of the quick-melee, but it allows the knife to be used in much more damaging and stealthy roles - equipped like a main weapon. Sure, it might be doing it like PS1, but it makes the knife a much hardier weapon, and then there's the case of the knife-alt fire, to increase damage.

Finally, if you devs want to see a knife in quick-melee, JUST USE A BAYONET! Effective, brutal, AND logical. Just make it a mod.

Well that's my two cents on this minor issue.

What do you guys think?

Took my words from me. I would much rather see a swift face smash with a rifle than the insta-knife so prevalent in modern games.

[KILLFACE]

Anyone who supports quick knives needs to be deported to Australia.

We don't want their sissy kind here mate. Quick Knifers need to Harden The Fuck Up.

I used to often hunt with a knife n camo on BF2142. Was nearly to the point where I could go a round without dying and get 10-20 kills. Espescially on the lower populated srvrs where there was a bit of room to move. And I'm strongly opposed to them making Knives noob friendly. It's meant to be a skill based weapon. If your not good enough to get near them with it equipped. You don't deserve the kill. Quick Knifing is for sissy's that run across someone with no notice and click the knife button. I'll encode some of the shenanigans I used to get up to on 2142 n put it on Photobucket(prefer it to Youtube because I can get pictures, gifs n videos all on the same thing). Knifing can be a lot of fun. And also very underestimated; was doing 1v1 and went 10-0 against some dude with a knife who was complaining and saying I should pull out a gun. So I did... Then I went 20-0 against him. He said he was very uncomfortable that a man that could ruin his day like that was simply toying with him.

[megamold]

dont really care if its a quick knife or a quick rifle bash, to me its just a different animation with the same affect

i dont even care if they put in a quick melee or not, it just care about the effect it will have.

[KILLFACE]

thrust knife through the spaces in ribs

You forgot under the ribs. Was one of the Romans favorite places with a Gladius. Only need a 2 inch hole there from memory.

[Immigrant]

dont really care if its a quick knife or a quick rifle bash, to me its just a different animation with the same affect.

Ask the guy who is knifed instead and the one who is bashed with the rifle butt. The difference should be in damage.

I too am against instant kills with knife.. (except when Inf backstabs a stationary target)

[KILLFACE]

Maybe a knife ya gotta pull out manually that 1 hits, but a quick block button with a cooldown, but a much slower cooldown with knife equipped or somthing, to encourage people to pull their knife out n duke it out. That'd be made even cooler with a kick button or something that can either knock them back or leave you exposed. It'd turn it into a very skill based punch on. Cause like the Marine said, If they know your there, there's likely to be a struggle and it turns into a bit of a brawl before you can reliable neutralize them.

[Stardouser]

Totally against quick knife, but at the very least SOE should review Bad Company 2's 1 hit kill aimbot autoknife that will let you knife through walls and pull you up onto ledges above your head to knife, for an example of what we should not have.

[PlaceboCyanide]

Never had a problem with quick-knifing. I can understand why everyone is losing their *expletive* over it but as many of you like to say....wait until beta.

[megamold]

Ask the guy who is knifed instead and the one who is bashed with the rifle butt. The difference should be in damage.

I too am against instant kills with knife.. (except when Inf backstabs a stationary target)

so 2 different melee attacks?
i'm pretty sure i will rarely use 1 let alone 2

i'd rather take a gun to a knifefight then a knife to a gunfight

[MooK]

Rifle bash + Equippable knife.

Think "rifle bash" for those situations when you are low on ammo, and really close to your opponent.

Think "equippable knife" like CS, something more for cloakers.

[Immigrant]

so 2 different melee attacks?
i'm pretty sure i will rarely use 1 let alone 2

No only one. Read my first post here.

http://www.planetside-universe.com/showpost.php?p=728681&postcount=24

[Sledgecrushr]

I am starting to like the idea of a bayonet cert more and more. A bayonet would give you reach, more mass In your swing to penetrate armor and would look awesome to see your mates gigging the enemy.

[megamold]

No only one. Read my first post here.

http://www.planetside-universe.com/showpost.php?p=728681&postcount=24

oh i see , yeah i can get behind that.

but i still only really care about the effect it will have, and even then i just dont want it to be instakill, everything else is pretty much fine by me.

the only exception to this would be is that i would except a instakill knife if you managed to sneak up behind someone who was standing still.

[Immigrant]

the only exception to this would be is that i would except a instakill knife if you managed to sneak up behind someone who was standing still.

We think alike, it should be like this for light classes. But to insta-kill HA Infiltator would have to max out his Melee cert tree. MAX should be resistant to most of melee attack however.

[megamold]

We think alike, it should be like this for light classes. But to insta-kill HA Infiltator would have to max out his Melee cert tree. MAX should be resistant to most of melee attack however.

exactly

people blam BF3 all the time, and i do admit it's kinda gone to shit.
however i do think they devised a great knifing system that can be easily expanded upon.

[Kilmoran]

i want to be able to equip, and customize, my knife. I want it to represent what I do... i don't want it to be a "Secondary" weapon. It is my knife... and those that bleed upon it are my victims. It is not an accident, it is not running out of ammunition. It is my focus... my craft... and my way.

[DayOne]

I don't care too much about what damage it does (1 hit kill animation from behind would be perfect though) but NO QUICK KNIFE EVER! It's just bad.

Also...

i want to be able to equip, and customize, my knife. I want it to represent what I do... i don't want it to be a "Secondary" weapon. It is my knife... and those that bleed upon it are my victims. It is not an accident, it is not running out of ammunition. It is my focus... my craft... and my way.

This. Very much this.

[Rbstr]

I love the rifle smack.

It'd also be nice if you could equip the knife...but I'm neutral on the quick-knife as a concept.
As long as a fast knife kill is an only-from-behind thing and doesn't have some silly range I'm ok with it.

In pretty much all cases it capping someone should be the more prudent option.

[ArmedZealot]

I would like a rifle bash that stuns or staggers as a quick hit.

Then have an equippable knife to finish or backstab.

[WaryWizard]

The quick knoive button should make your character put his/her gun away and pull out a knoive. From there you can swing it as you wish. You could tap attack to swing it quickly but do less damage, or you could hold attack to do a "charged" swing that does more damage.

By charged I mean you pull your arm back, hold it, and swing as hard as you can. The faster one would probably be similar to how it is now except you'll have your knoive in your hand before and after the swing.

I would like a rifle bash that stuns or staggers as a quick hit.

Then have an equippable knife to finish or backstab.

what would happen if 30 or so people stunned/staggered you over in over in a comedic style? They could stagger you off a cliff.:lol:

[Kilmoran]

I will also say... that sometimes stabbing from behind is simply not an option. Tactics, positioning, situation, timing... do not always allow for the "easy strike". Thus, I am not sure if i like the idea of it only being from behind... or at the very least, it not still being /rather/ effective from the front, even if it is not "insta kill" (which i don't really care about to be honest). Currently, a melee boosted secondary knife stab does around 75% of health. If a backstab is instant, i think a front stab should be this. A way of wounding, severely, but not killing in one blow. Assistance to your allies, or a way of ensuring the second attack is lethal considering your chances of survival to strike again are cut way, way down by exposing yourself with the initial attack.

[The Degenatron]

I said "No" to "quick attacks" all together.

Frankly, I find it a little rediculous that a knife would be ANYTHING but a last resort of a desperate fighter.

When all other options are gone do I reach for my knife.

It also encourages a less tactical style of play. I hate it when people go for a knife kill when they have a magazine full of bullets and die half-way to their target. You could have shot that guys, moved the line forward, and helped the cause, but instead you acted like an idiot because you wanted to up your knife KDR. Give me a break!

My second choice would be the rifle butt. But it shouldn't kill. It should only stun with a head shot on any soldier less than a Heavy Assault. Heavies and Maxes should be unhurt by it.

I know there are people who just LOVE knife kills, but to me that's just waving you E-Peen around when you should be helping the team instead.

[megamold]

I will also say... that sometimes stabbing from behind is simply not an option. Tactics, positioning, situation, timing... do not always allow for the "easy strike".

it isnt an option all the time ,thats the beauty of it.
its one of those " OMG did you see how i owned that guy wooo i rule! " type of things, that only happen every now and then as opposed to every 5 minutes.

if it only happens sometimes its just way more gratifying

[Zekeen]

Quick-melee back killing just takes away from the Planetside feel. If you have that, then people try to do that way too much. If they have to EQUIP the knife, then they won't got for "humiliation points" and use a knife more tactically. This game is about shooting, and if ya want to use a knife equip it and be at a disadvantage for stealthy kills. There's way better ways than quick-knifing. People want to see their knife, and feel it have melee power. If quick-melee is needed, make it rifle bash, or if you want a better quick-melee, a bayonet mod for more damage, but let the knife be a separate powerful entity that is equipped on its own.

[Zolan]

Quick knife has always been ridiculous.

Equip knife or no knife.

Bring back my lightnin' stabber.

[Sledgecrushr]

I want more than just some amped up bowie knives, i want some real melee options.

[Steambot]

Maybe this:

You can quick-melee with a rifle-bash that does moderate damage, but for a more extreme effect, you have to equip a knife.

[RSphil]

if knifing has to be in the game then id like it like battlefield 3. that is the best knifing iv seen in a game to date. if you are getting knifed it looks so good and if you are doing the knifing it looks awesome. iv seen a guy through my sniper scope get picked up and knifed in the throat and it looks class. id vote for this in ps2 though i dont do it much myself unless i need a silent kill which sometimes is handy.

[KILLFACE]

i want to be able to equip, and customize, my knife. I want it to represent what I do... i don't want it to be a "Secondary" weapon. It is my knife... and those that bleed upon it are my victims. It is not an accident, it is not running out of ammunition. It is my focus... my craft... and my way.

From the sounds of it we would of had a lot of fun together on 2142 mate.

[Dart]

Maybe this:

You can quick-melee with a rifle-bash that does moderate damage, but for a more extreme effect, you have to equip a knife.

Why? Why do we need a skill-less, one button melee attack at all? I love the attitude of the guys who want to customize and specialize in knife-fighting! THAT is PlanetSide! Forget quick melee attacks all together. Advocate skill and specialization. Leave homogenisation to lesser shooters.

[Kilmoran]

it isnt an option all the time ,thats the beauty of it.
its one of those " OMG did you see how i owned that guy wooo i rule! " type of things, that only happen every now and then as opposed to every 5 minutes.

if it only happens sometimes its just way more gratifying

It does happen all the time for me... in PS 1. The knife is my primary weapon of choice. Though i have killed far more without it... it is still my weapon of choice. I can be stealthy, i can distract with he noise, I can destroy infantry with it as well as any sniper. It is my tool of the trade... and it is not about how "cool" it is... even though i do enjoy the hunt. It is about how useful it is for what I do beyond simply killing people. Especially in PS 1... the only weapon i know i will have as an infiltrator all the time, is my knife.

[Kilmoran]

From the sounds of it we would of had a lot of fun together on 2142 mate.

Didn't stick with that one too long. Not as big as PS 1 so... i sort of lost interest. But i did have my fair share of "knife fight" servers.

[Kilmoran]

I said "No" to "quick attacks" all together.

Frankly, I find it a little rediculous that a knife would be ANYTHING but a last resort of a desperate fighter.

When all other options are gone do I reach for my knife.

It also encourages a less tactical style of play. I hate it when people go for a knife kill when they have a magazine full of bullets and die half-way to their target. You could have shot that guys, moved the line forward, and helped the cause, but instead you acted like an idiot because you wanted to up your knife KDR. Give me a break!

My second choice would be the rifle butt. But it shouldn't kill. It should only stun with a head shot on any soldier less than a Heavy Assault. Heavies and Maxes should be unhurt by it.

I know there are people who just LOVE knife kills, but to me that's just waving you E-Peen around when you should be helping the team instead.

Bullets are noisy, most of the time. Ammo, especially as an infiltrator, could be at a premium. Generally, you had to get just as close for most pistols in PS 1 any how to get the kill, and it was far more noticable and took longer to kill with a pistol against rexo than it did the melee boosted knife. I assure you... you can help the team just fine with a knife in Planet Side. Maybe not other games, but definitely this one. Maybe PS 2 will follow that idea.

[Dart]

Let me ask you a question Dart. Something I have pondering with on these forums for a while . Do you view higher TTK as requiring more, less or equivalent skill as low TTK? Just in general.

Hell anyone can weigh in if you want and perhaps this isnt best thread for this but it just crossed my mind.

I'll give you the short answer, in the interests of not derailing the thread, but i believe a shorter TTK places the emphasis on a slightly different skill set to a longer one. I imagine dominating PS2 will require just as much skill as PS1 did, but in slightly different areas.

[KILLFACE]

Guns for show. Knives for a Pro.

[rekefant]

Dont do quick knife insta kill. Riflebash on the other hand dont seems stupid IF you dont deal significant damage with it just push back and a slight stun, melee isnt a focus in FPS, but CQC happens and then a rifle bash would be realistic. An equip knife would be logical to have for numerous reason, all mentioned earlier.

[Nasher]

I think it should be like planetside 1.

You should have to equip it like a proper knife hero.

[Dart]

Yeah like I said before, this is a decent and realistic compromise. Workable if nothing else.

But no one has yet told me why this 'compromise'is necessary at all? What is wrong with JUST having the equipped knife? You were just talking about raising skill levels in comparison to modern shooters (which i agree with by the way) so why do you want to find an easy solution which detracts from that aim?

[megamold]

It does happen all the time for me... in PS 1. The knife is my primary weapon of choice. Though i have killed far more without it... it is still my weapon of choice. I can be stealthy, i can distract with he noise, I can destroy infantry with it as well as any sniper. It is my tool of the trade... and it is not about how "cool" it is... even though i do enjoy the hunt. It is about how useful it is for what I do beyond simply killing people. Especially in PS 1... the only weapon i know i will have as an infiltrator all the time, is my knife.

as it should be for an infiltrator

not so much for any other class

[berzerkerking]

Personally, I'm against the rifle bash because I love the feeling of successfully bringing a knife to a gun fight. Sure it is slightly animalistic, but I feel like a goddamn champ when I can pull it off. Also, I think it'd be incredibly stupid to have it not 1-hit kill your opponent because why the hell would you use a knife to begin with then? I seem to be one against the world with having it be a 1-hit kill but again logistically it is easily feasible to kill someone with one hit from a knife and anyone who says otherwise clearly has little to no experience with knives (except for maybe cutting their food). I'll give three simple scenarios to explain why:

Scenario 1: If I'm behind you with a knife.
In this scenario I would knife upwards around the neck towards the skull, in doing so I sever the brain stem. By severing the brain stem you cut off motor function and basic functions like breathing. Outcome: You die.

Scenario 2: If I'm in front of you with a knife.
In this scenario I would thrust my knife through the spaces in your rib cage stabbing the heart (for added fun I give it a little twist and turn). Statistics say IF you receive immediate care (say, from a hospital) you have about a 33% chance of survival,we're on a battlefield and something tells me there are no hospital facilities on Auraxis that you can be carted of to. Outcome: You die.

Universal scenario: I'm in front or behind you with a knife.
There is also a stab that can work from either direction. Simply take the knife and thrust it downward into the soft part of the flesh in between the collar bone on the left side in close proximity of the neck toward the heart (once again, for added fun I can give it a little twist and turn). Once again, it ends up with a knife in your heart. Of course if you wanted to be tricky you could do it from the right side and angle it (though that of course takes a slightly longer blade). Outcome: You die. (Fun fact: this was a favorite of the Romans for execution because when done right you're dead before you hit the ground).

Needless to say, to not have people who are supposed to be soldiers unable to kill someone with a knife in 1 hit is absolutely preposterous. I will say I do support you having to switch to your knife though. If they unfortunately decided to keep the "quick knife", I still suggest they keep the 1-hit kill because it is easily possible and like I explained most plausible to kill someone that way.
I love this, but I'm all for bayonets as an additional cert added to slow draw knifing. The weight would slow down the character adding to the stategy portion of it.
I tend to bring a knife to a gunfight, and charge while you reload, hence the name Berzerkerking. Knives FTW cuz their shiny:D

[basti]

Quick knive should not be in the game, as it is in fact OP, or useless.

The moment Quick melee is capable to kill someone with one hit, or even just capable to kill someone who is lightly damaged, its OP. Simply sprint around, shoot those far away, melee those close. Done id COD, its completly stupid.

If its not capable to do that, then why risk spending time to melee and NOT kill the enemy if you could instead reload and kill the enemy + be ready for the next guy coming along.

Away with Quick melee!

[ZeroOneZero]

Yup, infiltrator only, other classes get gun bashing. Knifing is only for bragging rights for other classes, seeing how there are ammo packs now.

[Hermes]

The only quick melee I would like to see is a zero damage one. It's real strength is in making your character feel more real when in close and out of ammo.(Knives should be an equipped damage dealer)

Rifle butt:

- Cooldown (no spam)
- No FF
- Does no damage
- COF blooms, pushes them back a couple of steps

Uses when out of bullets or in a tight spot:

- Can try to force a reload window if you are in close
- Can push a hacker from a terminal in a desperate moment
- Can disrupt someone gunning down your mates

Uses when not out of bullets or normal play:

- Pushing a sniper hilariously off an edge and remembering worms
- Little else.



Plus this way you could give them the butt then both barrels between the eyes for extra cinematics. ;)

[Metalsheep]

Im against Melee in a FPS period, unless its a specific weapon. I.E. The Sword and Gravity Hammer from Halo.

Your fist/knife should be a last resort weapon that does little damage for when you are out of Ammo. The focus in a first person Shooter should be to Shoot. You see it in nearly all modern FPS where the Melee attack is usually the Primary or Secondary weapon with the most kills for a large portion of the playerbase, when it should be one of the last weapons you get kills with.

No quick knife, make it equippable like in Planetside, and keep it around 5 hits to kill someone without Secondary Mode, also no autoaim/lunge.

[Sledgecrushr]

A bayonet would satisfy me pretty good. I am just having a real hard time getting into a handheld knofe actually doing any damage to someone in armor. A bayonet to me would both look cool and be a plausible force in whatever kind of melee combat ps2 would habe to offer. Plus i think it would be cool to say "we are outta ammo boyz, fix bayonets and prepare to charge"

[WolfAlmighty]

I'm fine with a one-hit-kill knife but only under three conditions (all of which must be met):

1) The knife is equippable, so no quick knife or dedicated melee button

2) You attack the soldier from behind. As fascinating as the breakdown by therandomone was, fact is you're not going to kill a soldier wearing body armour that's confronting you in a single knife stab. From the front or side, it should be at least three hits for a knife kill for someone at full health.

3) No auto-aim/lunge. As Stardouser mentioned, this got to the point of being absurd in Bad Company 2, where you'd just go into a building where enemies were and press your melee button and your soldier would literally pivot 90 degrees or leap across the room and insta-kill the nearest enemy. There are times when I had shot someone square in the chest at 5m with some 12 ga. from an 870 and he proceeds to fly across the room and OHK me with his knife. I realise there's lag and such to be considered, but just no.

[Zolan]

I like the idea of rifle butts and pistol whips for quick-combat melee that does minimal damage or pushes someone backwards slightly. Something like the current MAX melee attacks.

Quick-strike knife kills, on the other hand, are the bane of FPS games.
Especially given how unrealistically (where realism counts) they are used in most FPS games.


You only need a knife in one of two situations (maybe three).

1. You are completely out of ammo.

- 1b. Someone else runs out of ammo and pulls out a knife. You want to be honorable and pull out your knife as well.

2. You are playing an infiltrator focusing on cloaking/melee attacks


Equip-able knife is the way to go.

[Dart]

Because SOE is wanting to appeal to this generation of modern shooters where OSOK melee is prevalent. I find it easier to work towards the middle first. Learned from a good manager a long time ago... it is better to pull than push someone to your way of thinking. Now I gave away my secrets.

But it damages the game for EVERYONE and simply is not necessary. Sorry, I'm just not buying this and it's one of the first things I'll be trying very hard to change in beta.

[Zekeen]

The only quick melee I would like to see is a zero damage one. It's real strength is in making your character feel more real when in close and out of ammo.(Knives should be an equipped damage dealer)

Rifle butt:

- Cooldown (no spam)
- No FF
- Does no damage
- COF blooms, pushes them back a couple of steps

Uses when out of bullets or in a tight spot:

- Can try to force a reload window if you are in close
- Can push a hacker from a terminal in a desperate moment
- Can disrupt someone gunning down your mates

Uses when not out of bullets or normal play:

- Pushing a sniper hilariously off an edge and remembering worms
- Little else.



Plus this way you could give them the butt then both barrels between the eyes for extra cinematics. ;)


You make a VERY nice point and idea. Making a rifle bash more of a push so you can ambush em, push em back and shoot them before they regain control from the push back. Would be pretty nice, easily thwartable, able to be stopped by allies, and knock em off an edge (maybe add in a mechanic to have them fall on their back when pushed off a ledge or tall step, a sort of misstep). Love the thought of that adding more strategy to it.

[Algo]

I hate anything that impairs vision or movement or makes me artificially inaccurate.. I'm already sad enough that there are going to be flashbangs.

I'd rather have the old big fuckoff equippable knife. And one hit kills from the back with melee boosters (implants and/or cert perk) at most.

Rifle bash ok, but please for the love of god no stun effect bullshit i beg of you.

[Frotang]

Every other weapon and piece of equipment in the game requires you to press a button to equip it and then press a button to use it. So the fact that they make a button catering to one specific weapon that combines those actions is outrageous.

Here is how this can be done while still appealing to the players who want to quick knife.
Knife is an equipped weapon same as ps1 but you create a mele skill tree that when upgraded would reduce the amount of time it takes to equip said knife and could also have an option to upgrade slash speed.
This would enable players to quick knife if certed correctly but would take skill and timing. make it so theres at penalty for spamming use key before knife is completely out like a slower swing. That way a player who has perfect timing can basically insta knife if they are good enough.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

[Rhyfelwrr]

I like the risk around using melee... but if you have a quick-knife then most of that risk is nullified as within 0.5s you can blow his/her head off with your AR if you somehow manage to fail when you're sneaking up to someone or miss in that moment of franticness

BF2 and BF2142, using the knife took balls and it was oh so satisfying when you were rewarded for it.

I'd like to customize my equipable knife though maybe things like:

Your rifle butt
A bayonett
A massive serrated monster evicerating 24" knife/sword
A wrench or some other tool. (as an nod to other games)

[Hermes]

You make a VERY nice point and idea. Making a rifle bash more of a push so you can ambush em, push em back and shoot them before they regain control from the push back. Would be pretty nice, easily thwartable, able to be stopped by allies, and knock em off an edge (maybe add in a mechanic to have them fall on their back when pushed off a ledge or tall step, a sort of misstep). Love the thought of that adding more strategy to it.

Thanks! I mentioned it somewhere before, but the thread in question was on fire and it was buried with no comment :)

[TeaReks]

If you want to melee play Mount and Blade.


Rifle bash for a short stun with very limited damage would be ok.

Ask any solider which they would rather have a knife or an assault rifle in any situation.

I guess maybe opening a MRE with an assault rifle would be tough but they aren't including food in PS2 so I think we are all set.

[Mr DeCastellac]

I don't think there should be any 'quick-melee'. If anything, I'm a big fan of equippable melee weapons, like in PS1, or more recently, the Valve games like TF2, CS:S, DoD:S, et cetera.

However, if the devs decide to put quick-melee in, despite the majority of people not wanting it, I would prefer a rifle-bash/pistol-whip. Though that might further the 2003-testicle-spelunkers who say PS2 looks like Halo.

Also, I really hope that they don't make the quick-knife a 'seeking' weapon like Call of Duty, where if you're remotely looking at them, it moves your character close and aims the knife for you. If you're using the knife in the first place, either you're out of ammo (in which case you should probably stay out of sight in the first place), or you'd better be sneaking up on someone, in which case a homing knife would just be silly.

I really like the OP's idea for the knife. Not an instant kill, but dealing a large amount of damage and ignoring shields.

[Rhyfelwrr]

Ask any solider which they would rather have a knife or an assault rifle in any situation.


*Ask any soldier which they would rather have; A knife or an assault rifle with no bullets because your clip is empty and your pistol is empty so you have no other choice but to resort to melee.

[IMMentat]

TBH i'm against any knife-spam attack (equiped or not), mostly because they look stupid in third person in EVERY game I have played. Either the execution (Halo arm hit instakills, CoD stomach stabs against armed oponents), or visuals (left 4 dead mele worked the same be it a golf club or a katana) tend to be horrible.
Best mele implementation in a game were in TF2 (so many interesting options), Mount&Blade, AvP, Zeno Clash and Dark Messiah: Might and Magic. Most of these made mele an equipped weapon and used direction keys, combo's and "heavy" keypresses to simulate different slashes, parries and thrusts.

PS2 has no real need for a dedicated mele system like the games above so I will be content with a few canned Assassination moves. Backstabs should ONLY instakill if a player shadows an enemy for a few seconds, then let them choose the execution move by aiming at a soft-spot (knife to neck? knee kick then stab? choke-hold-snap? back/kidney stab?).

Some Specific mele-utility abilities could also be provided for Infiltrators (suprise, a brief turn-speed/angle restriction and hamstring, a slow) and MAX units (sweep (knockback), smash (imobilise/knockdown), crush (stuck between a lonley rock and an hug-er-if-ic enemy wearing power armour with a charge-ability)). Maybe let HA have weaker versions of other moves.


If you run out of bullets get a friendly engineer/terminal/LA to resupply you, if you are running around solo and expend all your ammo without thought then you deserve to get caught out and gunned down.

[Steambot]

Why? Why do we need a skill-less, one button melee attack at all? I love the attitude of the guys who want to customize and specialize in knife-fighting! THAT is PlanetSide! Forget quick melee attacks all together. Advocate skill and specialization. Leave homogenisation to lesser shooters.

Congratulations! You just changed my opinion. (For realz.)

[Ghoest9]

Knives should only make sense if you are sneaking up behind someone.

[Zekeen]

Modable knives, push back rifle-bash, and bayonets.

1000x better than quick-knife, it's such a copycat thing it's terrible, it's even done the EXACT same way as CoD.

[Serpent]

Bf3 had the right idea. If you're behind someone, you should (with the right certs) be able to just kill them outright with a knife finisher. Otherwise Infiltrators might have a hard time getting kills, if you aren't good at sniping... Usually with me, I must find a specific sniper rifle that I like the feel of, and then I am able to snipe efficiently.

For now, equipping the knife should wait unless infiltrators are easily killing people with a quick knife function.

[WaryWizard]

The quick knife is the only thing I don't like about Planetside 2.
Except the TR of course.:D

Equipable knifes alla Planetside 1. If it must be osok make it from behind, and require an extended animation.

If you need to have a quick melee attack,:( it should be a rifle butt with minimal damage,and no stun or knock-back(abuse by multiple players hitting same target). It could disrupt animations like reloading, sprinting, hacking etc.

[Kilmoran]

If you want to melee play Mount and Blade.


Rifle bash for a short stun with very limited damage would be ok.

Ask any solider which they would rather have a knife or an assault rifle in any situation.

I guess maybe opening a MRE with an assault rifle would be tough but they aren't including food in PS2 so I think we are all set.

Blasphemy TeaReks! The only thing i use guns for as a cloaker is to kill maxes.... of or to get basic weapons titanium.

[Frotang]

Guys I already won this thread 2 pages back, end of thread. Devs go fix this now.


Every other weapon and piece of equipment in the game requires you to press a button to equip it and then press a button to use it. So the fact that they make a button catering to one specific weapon that combines those actions is outrageous.

Here is how this can be done while still appealing to the players who want to quick knife.
Knife is an equipped weapon same as ps1 but you create a mele skill tree that when upgraded would reduce the amount of time it takes to equip said knife and could also have an option to upgrade slash speed.
This would enable players to quick knife if certed correctly but would take skill and timing. make it so theres at penalty for spamming use key before knife is completely out like a slower swing. That way a player who has perfect timing can basically insta knife if they are good enough.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2



Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

[Sirisian]

What's with the biased poll? Modern shooter? You're discussing quick-knife vs quick-bash. We already discussed in depth that most people didn't want a modern implementation of the quick knife for Planetside 2. Many preferred a modified approach to quick knife, but were fine with quick knife when discussing it. Read this summary of possible options (http://www.planetside-universe.com/showpost.php?p=647402&postcount=245). My ideal implementation of quick knife was at the bottom. If you have time I'd recommend reading the whole thread. It offers some insight's into the community's reactions toward "modern" FPS quick knife implementations.

What do you guys think?
I'm not against a rifle bash mechanic, but honestly I'd prefer throwing knives and other upgrades over a bayonet which to me sounds extremely lame in any foreseeable animation. Basically the concept of a quick knife finishing move at close range isn't really a problem. I think you summarized their implementation goals already.

Anyway the implementation I linked for quick knife takes into consideration most of the criticisms of quick knife to create a balanced and useful weapon while still allowing an equippable knife.

I think this thread though is testament to the fact that the community can evolve. We're seeing a lot of nice discussion involving the pros and cons of each system.

Also if it isn't clear if you don't read the other quick knife thread, quick-bash was brought up. Do you want a stun attack or just identical to a quick knife with a weapon?

[Purple]

*Ask any soldier which they would rather have; A knife or an assault rifle with no bullets because your clip is empty and your pistol is empty so you have no other choice but to resort to melee.

i would still rather have the assault rifle. knifes and very short range, you can gain a few feet if you use your AR which is out of ammo as a club.

anyway you should be running away if you dont have ammo.

[The Degenatron]

Bullets are noisy, most of the time. Ammo, especially as an infiltrator, could be at a premium. Generally, you had to get just as close for most pistols in PS 1 any how to get the kill, and it was far more noticable and took longer to kill with a pistol against rexo than it did the melee boosted knife. I assure you... you can help the team just fine with a knife in Planet Side. Maybe not other games, but definitely this one. Maybe PS 2 will follow that idea.

If you are creeping up on some guy to do a stealth kill, then there's no need to have a "quick knife".

Someone else mention the knife attack in BF3, and I agree, it's very well done. The only problem I have with it is that you can creep on a guy with your gun out and just hit a quick button to get the knife kill. That's not realistic or fair. It gives the attacker a "backup plan" of having a gun at the ready in case they get caught. Funk Dat!

By all means, sneak, creep, and cut a fool - but go "all in" for it. If you're gonna get a one-shot silent kill - then it is fair that you are vulnerable when moving into position for it (equipped knife) and during the take-down (just like BF3).

What I DON'T want to see is some jerky running and swiping and getting kills left and right or camping around the corner of a door quick swiping people as they run out.

[The noob]

Why not have an implementation of both "quick" and "equipable" knives in the game? One button will activate the quick knife, which would do minor to moderate damage and would basically be more of a last resort rather than "lol I got close now I cut you". You can also choose to equip the knife, which leaves you more vulnerable to getting shot, both due to the fact you no longer have a gun equipped and that the knife takes longer to swing, but deals heavier damage than the quick knife, and might also allow infiltrators to backstab if they've certed for it (an assumption since they appear to be the only ones with a melee booster tree).

[The Kush]

The knife should have to be equipped and be the only weapon out. That or remove it and change it to weapon bashing.

[Zekeen]

I'm not against a rifle bash mechanic, but honestly I'd prefer throwing knives and other upgrades over a bayonet which to me sounds extremely lame in any foreseeable animation. Basically the concept of a quick knife finishing move at close range isn't really a problem. I think you summarized their implementation goals already.

Throwing knives wouldn't make too much sense for PS2, seeing as we have silencers to fill that role. Though I know WHY you want that (cause throwins knives are awwwweeesome). Nevertheless, Planetside is LESS about 1 shot kills, so a quick-knife backstab is less balanced than an equip knife, then backstab.

Unless we want it so HA are immune to backstabs because of their higher life? But that would be too weird, wouldn't it? So we should stick with more balanced one shots.

Also might be better to limit backstab one shots to infiltrators.

[Sledgecrushr]

http://www.huntingsuppliesoutfitter.com/shop/media/images/product_detail/tapcpicstk66168-bk.jpg

Bayonets are bad assed.

[Sirisian]

Throwing knives wouldn't make too much sense for PS2, seeing as we have silencers to fill that role. Though I know WHY you want that (cause throwins knives are awwwweeesome). Nevertheless, Planetside is LESS about 1 shot kills, so a quick-knife backstab is less balanced than an equip knife, then backstab.

Unless we want it so HA are immune to backstabs because of their higher life? But that would be too weird, wouldn't it? So we should stick with more balanced one shots.
Woah who is talking about one-shot kills? I don't really like class advantages for back-stab. Also it's not really necessary with sane damage numbers. A heavy has a shield it can turn on and become nearly invulnerable already. When I say throwing knives I'm talking about the implementation from this thread (http://www.planetside-universe.com/showthread.php?p=647402#post647402):

Version 4: Balanced Knife Design:

Quick-button knife with post use delay equal to the unholstering delay of pulling out the weapon again. (Missing with a quick knife leaves you at a huge disadvantage time wise essentially).

Tapping the quick knife key swipes for 30% damage
Holding the quick knife key transitions to throwing knife after 1 second. 10 m range medium COF. 30% damage
Holding over 1.5 seconds has 25 m with small COF. 35% damage

3-mode equipped knife:

swipe, 30% damage. It's faster for continuous swipes than quick knifing since it lacks the transition back to a weapon)
stab, 35% damage, Audible noise like in PS1.
throw, single use 30% damage (better for multiple knives since there's no holstering delay)

Has pre (1 second to 1.5s when holding down the fire button) and post throw delay (longer animation).
If you don't hold the fire button for 1 second the throw is cancelled.


Throwing knifes has Slow spinning projectile. So if you get hit the person that threw it might be behind cover.
When equipped secondary stab mode does 75% damage when backstabbing stationary targets.
Maxes takes 0% damage from knife attacks.
Damage is uniform across all classes with no class (other than max) having advantages or disadvantages.
If two people knife at the same general time the attacks are parried doing no damage allowing friendlies to kill the attacker. Rare, but this was brought up and is really necessary to help those at low health to protect themselves from a finishing strike. This increases tactics and fulfills the concept of a quick time event for protecting oneself from knife attacks that a few people want.


The full justification is in that thread though. We had a very long conversation about the pros and cons of such mechanics and tweaked the fake percentages for a while since people kept bringing up hard numbers. (It essentially forced me to define strict numbers). I feel odd linking it here since it's out of context with the original discussion which included some other points, but I think it can stand by itself now.

[Sledgecrushr]

So youre out of ammo and probably pretty hirt. The enemy is coming for you and you throw your knife at them? I would rather have a bayonet than throw my knife away.

[Timealude]

i would rather have equitable knife with it being customized, me being a big fan of cloaker class..I loved being able to knife people while invisible and have quick knife would add too much of an advantage to cloakers just for the pure fact that they would just quick knife and shoot you.

[Timealude]

So youre out of ammo and probably pretty hirt. The enemy is coming for you and you throw your knife at them? I would rather have a bayonet than throw my knife away.

Shoot less and pick your shots better. lol.....cant say much for the TR but VS and NC should know that by now :P

[Hmr85]

I'm not a fan of quick knife. I would rather you have to actually equip your knife to do damage. Similar to what we had in PS1.

[SixShooter]

I'm against any kind of quick mele attack. A knife should be equipped just like with any other weapon, although I will say that I am in favor of it being an inst-kill when knifing someone in the back.

[Zekeen]

I'm not a fan of quick knife. I would rather you have to actually equip your knife to do damage. Similar to what we had in PS1.

I'm against any kind of quick mele attack. A knife should be equipped just like with any other weapon, although I will say that I am in favor of it being an inst-kill when knifing someone in the back.

What if there was a Bayonet mod? Would you guys still be opposed to quick-melee?

[Sledgecrushr]

Quick melee makes sense with a bayonet. Its out there ready to be used.

[DayOne]

What if there was a Bayonet mod? Would you guys still be opposed to quick-melee?

Only quick melee with a bayonet mod if you have to give up any under-barrel attachments (grenade launcher or fore-grip etc.), a barrel mod (silencer or flash suppressor etc.) and even side rail mods (torch or laser). This is the only acceptable implementation in my opinion.

[Malorn]

PS1 had a melee booster implant. PS2 has implants for additional perks like weapon draw speed after sprinting and acquisition timer reduction.

Makes sense to bring back melee booster for people that want a 1-shot knife. Tradeoffs. By choosing it they are not choosing something else and that balances it out.

Make quick knife do crap damage like PS1's normal knife attack and equip knife do full damage.

Equip knife = 2 hit kill (1 with melee booster implant)
Quick knife = 4 hit kill (2 with melee booster implant)

There you go. Balance and tradeoffs.

[Hmr85]

Only quick melee with a bayonet mod if you have to give up any under-barrel attachments (grenade launcher or fore-grip etc.), a barrel mod (silencer or flash suppressor etc.) and even side rail mods (torch or laser). This is the only acceptable implementation in my opinion.

I have to agree with DayOne on this one.

[Timealude]

PS1 had a melee booster implant. PS2 has implants for additional perks like weapon draw speed after sprinting and acquisition timer reduction.

Makes sense to bring back melee booster for people that want a 1-shot knife. Tradeoffs. By choosing it they are not choosing something else and that balances it out.

Make quick knife do crap damage like PS1's normal knife attack and equip knife do full damage.

Equip knife = 2 hit kill (1 with melee booster implant)
Quick knife = 4 hit kill (2 with melee booster implant)

There you go. Balance and tradeoffs.

I like this Idea.

[GreatMazinkaise]

PS1 had a melee booster implant. PS2 has implants for additional perks like weapon draw speed after sprinting and acquisition timer reduction.

Makes sense to bring back melee booster for people that want a 1-shot knife. Tradeoffs. By choosing it they are not choosing something else and that balances it out.

Make quick knife do crap damage like PS1's normal knife attack and equip knife do full damage.

Equip knife = 2 hit kill (1 with melee booster implant)
Quick knife = 4 hit kill (2 with melee booster implant)

There you go. Balance and tradeoffs.

Infiltrators currently show a Melee Booster certification, so I'm guessing that's where it went. Melee Booster was pretty much a cloaker-only implant anyways.

[Fanglord]

Equipable knife, and I hate to say it but I really liked the BF3 animations from behind.

[Mechzz]

Equipable knife, and I hate to say it but I really liked the BF3 animations from behind.

and on another thread, people are getting called weird for enjoying look at a female toon's ass.....
*sigh*

[Zekeen]

PS1 had a melee booster implant. PS2 has implants for additional perks like weapon draw speed after sprinting and acquisition timer reduction.

Makes sense to bring back melee booster for people that want a 1-shot knife. Tradeoffs. By choosing it they are not choosing something else and that balances it out.

Make quick knife do crap damage like PS1's normal knife attack and equip knife do full damage.

Equip knife = 2 hit kill (1 with melee booster implant)
Quick knife = 4 hit kill (2 with melee booster implant)

There you go. Balance and tradeoffs.

The quick knife still looks terrible, and there's no way to look good. It looks and feels like a third arm swinging. If we have to have quick melee, a rifle bash or bayonet looks much smoother and better.



Equipable knife, and I hate to say it but I really liked the BF3 animations from behind.


BF3 animations were good but terrible, they took FOREVER, because you ALWAYS had to spin them or something so you could stab them in the chest or neck, they wanted the player to see his killer. In PS2, it should be a grab around the neck and a knife in the back, without the victim being turned around (what's with that?). They would be a bit faster and look a lot better.

[TaintedPaladin]

I'd like to see a buttstroke quick attack with moderate damage that staggers the opponent, not a MAX, or at least sends their aim somewhere else. While the a knife would be an equipable item.

A second option is to have the knife be equipped faster than other items, striking a balance between a quick knife and an equipable knife.

[Xyntech]

I'd like to see a buttstroke quick attack with moderate damage that staggers the opponent, not a MAX, or at least sends their aim somewhere else. While the a knife would be an equipable item.

A second option is to have the knife be equipped faster than other items, striking a balance between a quick knife and an equipable knife.

How about both? Bashing them with your gun does small amounts of damage but throws there aim off and staggers them for a split second (allowing you to shoot them), but is nearly instantaneous. Like jumping, it would take longer each time you did it in a row.

Then have the knife pull out twice as fast as most equipped items, but you still need to swing it after pulling it out. The knife would then do a lot more raw damage than bashing.

Variety is nice, right?

[Malorn]

Id prefer quick knife was a pistol whip or butt strike animation, but that can be swapped out later. As long as it does significantly weaker dage than equip knife and isnt one shotting people im ok with the shitty animation. Im sure Tray will improve it when he has the opportunity, but i imavine he has a lot more higher priority things to work on, like Heavy assault animations.

[Sirisian]

As long as it does significantly weaker dage than equip knife and isnt one shotting people im ok with the shitty animation.
I don't think the damage is a big deal. In my suggestion I used 30% for both quick knife and equipped knife. (Mode 1). Really the time it takes go make successive swipes is the big deal. If you're shooting and run out of ammo and quick knife the enemy should be able to kill you as you pull up your empty gun again. An equipped knife would ideally allow faster swipes. This keeps both of them at a 4 hit attack. Then it also allows the 3 hit with the secondary mode for the equipped stab stack. Enough room for melee booster and such to bring it down to 2 hits and even 1 hit backstab.

[Mastachief]

Hate quick knife, there are energy shields how the hell would a knife penetrate those and a bullet not.

I could live with rifle butt if it was weak as shit.

[Maltodextrin]

Simple solution: When equipped, the knife does a quick slash, Such as though one did a slash when removing it from the sheath. After pulling it out, it remains equipped until you pull out your other weapon.

This maintains the quick knife's ability to be handy in a pinch, when all other options have failed, while at the same time hopefully discouraging quick knife spam in close quarters.

I'd also love for a weapon bash as well, low damage, but staggers the enemy.

Of course, I'd also love to throw my empty pistol into a Vanu's faceplate, then tackle him, and strangle the life out of him with my bare hands... (Kinect Suport!)

[megamold]

Hate quick knife, there are energy shields how the hell would a knife penetrate those and a bullet not.

I could live with rifle butt if it was weak as shit.

actually , one of the basic sci-fi explenations for this is that the shields only react the fast moving projectiles ( so things with alot of kinetic energy )
since a knife is much slower it is not effected by the shield.

think about it, if the shield holds back everything then you cant penetrate your own shield either, how will you go take a piss :)

[Malorn]

actually , one of the basic sci-fi explenations for this is that the shields only react the fast moving projectiles ( so things with alot of kinetic energy )
since a knife is much slower it is not effected by the shield.

think about it, if the shield holds back everything then you cant penetrate your own shield either, how will you go take a piss :)
I'm thinking about it and wondering how my own bullets get through my shield.

[DayOne]

I'm thinking about it and wondering how my own bullets get through my shield.

Either:
A) it opens up on the muzzle of your weapon in time with the shots fired (like WWI aircraft)
B) one way shields

:groovy:

[Resolve]

3 words. Fuck magnet knifing.

[Dart]

Id prefer quick knife was a pistol whip or butt strike animation, but that can be swapped out later. As long as it does significantly weaker dage than equip knife and isnt one shotting people im ok with the shitty animation. Im sure Tray will improve it when he has the opportunity, but i imavine he has a lot more higher priority things to work on, like Heavy assault animations.

I must've put 10 posts in this thread and I've still not seen one non-fluff post as to why "quick melee" should even exist in PlanetSide... It simply isn't necessary. Equip the knife (like every other weapon in PlanetSide) and, as others have said, allow people to specialize in it. F' COD and it's 'quick knives'.

[Sirisian]

I must've put 10 posts in this thread and I've still not seen one non-fluff post as to why "quick melee" should even exist in PlanetSide... It simply isn't necessary. Equip the knife (like every other weapon in PlanetSide) and, as others have said, allow people to specialize in it. F' COD and it's 'quick knives'.
Because we already discussed why melee is beneficial in another thread? (http://www.planetside-universe.com/showthread.php?t=38894) There's probably other threads. We can't keep reiterating the same discussion for every new person to the forum. ;)

[Dart]

Because we already discussed why melee is beneficial in another thread? (http://www.planetside-universe.com/showthread.php?t=38894) There's probably other threads. We can't keep reiterating the same discussion for every new person to the forum. ;)

LMAO! I'm not new to this forum and have you seen the results in the thread you just linked to support your argument? 82% of the people polled agree with me that there is NO NEED for "quick knives". You can put the gun down now, you shot your foot!

[Zekeen]

Because we already discussed why melee is beneficial in another thread? (http://www.planetside-universe.com/showthread.php?t=38894) There's probably other threads. We can't keep reiterating the same discussion for every new person to the forum. ;)

I'm sorry, was I supposed to necro? I was wasn't I, I'm so bad at the dark arts of forum going...

That thread was started HOW many months ago? And HOW many months ago was the last post? And wasn't it BEFORE they implemented the quick knife, where as now I'm calling attention to it, AFTER it's been added in, which was after a majority spoke AGAINST it.

I do believe this thread has credibility. Let's keep it at, "we've all been speaking against it since Higby asked us and somehow it ended up in the game" discussion. It's now a legitimate concern. If you're for the quick knife, bring something new to the table, don't just point back 3 or 4 months ago.

[Dart]

If anything the quick knife is LESS popular now than it was before! In the first thread only 18% of people supported it but now it's down to 11%!!! Why are we even discussing this any more?? Remove it already.

[Cuross]

Quick knife? No, it's a mechanic that I find even virtually unrealistic, that is, I find it unrealistic even in a virtual world. It looks cheap (not cheap like broken, cheap like half-assed), and I still can't get over the fact that apparently all soldiers today and in the future are duct taping their blades to their hands. It really gives me pause. A knife is a tough weapon to use, it's not as easy to just "slide it into the base of the skull" or "find that weak spot in the armor", all bladed weapons are like this where even the least amount of resistance can throw your strike off target. That said, I think that if it was a quick knife I'd say it should deal no more than maybe 20% of a light assault's maximum health because the attack itself appears to be wild and out of control. And then there's the reminder of shields. If I wanted to play a game where a blade could get through shields, I really would wait for Frank Herbert's Dune to become an MMO (which I believe I heard noise about it). Not that I wouldn't play PS2, but I just would continue feeling like the mechanic is one of those things you just don't want to talk about, and anyone who does would be one of "those" kinds of people.

I voted equip the knife, put in a different type of quick melee like butt-stocking, pistol-whipping, and wild haymakers or jabs. Add a mechanic where anyone struck by one of these, while the damage is relatively low, the enemy gets shook up a little.

[Top Sgt]

simple.. this is not an arcade shooter

We don't need scrubs running around trying to quick knife for montages

make it so you have to equip the knife and then click it again to stab etc.. nothing quick about it. it should be stealth that get's you the kill.. not lag/latency or pressing the button and panic knifing etc.

[WNxThentar]

Why? Why do we need a skill-less, one button melee attack at all? I love the attitude of the guys who want to customize and specialize in knife-fighting! THAT is PlanetSide! Forget quick melee attacks all together. Advocate skill and specialization. Leave homogenisation to lesser shooters.

Agreed. If you want to get to the point where you can do some major damage with a knife then skill up a tree that helps you in that. This "A knife should be a OHK" is stupid. A quick knife isn't much more then "Press X" to win.

Again I'll point out that at point blank range if you are using a pistol you don't get a OHK. You are not even guaranteed to hit. And I'll point out that through the rib cage, under the rib cage, in the back....is all fine and dandy but in real life unless the subject isn't moving your chance of getting a OHK isn't very good forget about the body armour your target has on.

I'll agree to a OHK from a knife only if you agree to a OHK from bullets within 20 feet.

Oh and all this gladiator/midevil talk...killing blows like that are typically depicted as being done on an opponent that is already helpless on the ground or being restrained by a few others. I think to many people watch movies and fancy themselves as some super fighter in game but don't want to have any more effort then sneaking up on someone and pressing X.

[WNxThentar]

I must've put 10 posts in this thread and I've still not seen one non-fluff post as to why "quick melee" should even exist in PlanetSide... It simply isn't necessary. Equip the knife (like every other weapon in PlanetSide) and, as others have said, allow people to specialize in it. F' COD and it's 'quick knives'.

Well said.

[WNxThentar]

simple.. this is not an arcade shooter

We don't need scrubs running around trying to quick knife for montages

make it so you have to equip the knife and then click it again to stab etc.. nothing quick about it. it should be stealth that get's you the kill.. not lag/latency or pressing the button and panic knifing etc.

Exactly because it ends up being just a jack rabbit scene where a newb is hopping around wildly swinging hoping to hit that one lucky hit.

[Sirisian]

I'm sorry, was I supposed to necro? I was wasn't I, I'm so bad at the dark arts of forum going...
Don't beat yourself up. The search feature and how to properly create a poll is not something everyone picks up immediately. Reading threads and gaining an objective viewpoint about a subject to discuss it can take even longer. :)

I do believe this thread has credibility. Let's keep it at, "we've all been speaking against it since Higby asked us and somehow it ended up in the game" discussion. It's now a legitimate concern. If you're for the quick knife, bring something new to the table, don't just point back 3 or 4 months ago.
Yeah and they took our feedback into consideration to make the knife a balanced implementation. I'm not sure what you wanted? Was it being overly used in the E3 video? Were people lunging across the map into players? I don't understand what your complaint is. If you read the thread you quoted everyone listed out what they didn't want and what they did want to see from a quick knife implementation and we got pretty much everything everyone asked for. The only thing that isn't clear is how equipping the knife works.

LMAO! I'm not new to this forum and have you seen the results in the thread you just linked to support your argument?
What are you talking about? The poll? Most of the people that answered in the poll immediately went back on what they said and commented that they just didn't want a one-hit knife. Refer to this summary (http://www.planetside-universe.com/showthread.php?p=647402#post647402). This is why proper polling is important and using polls for these kind of questions are pointless since people vote before they think which invariably results in people changing their viewpoint after making assumptions. (I've been guilty of this before). That and most polls are designed (sometimes without realized it) to box their voters into their preferred choice. Read this poll objectively. Do you think anyone wants a modern FPS quick-knife implementation? To many people as we found out that means a one-hit kill knife. No one wants that. (A few people did, but it was negligible).

simple.. this is not an arcade shooter
"Planetside 2 is not a military simulator"
"Planetside 2 is not an arcade shooter"
"Planetside 2 is not Planetside"
"Planetside 2 is not BF3"

You guys need to make up your minds or start putting a signature that says "Planetside 2 is what I'm currently thinking to be valid" which luckily is how I generally view it also, so we have a lot in common. :love:

[lMABl]

simple.. this is not an arcade shooter

We don't need scrubs running around trying to quick knife for montages

make it so you have to equip the knife and then click it again to stab etc.. nothing quick about it. it should be stealth that get's you the kill.. not lag/latency or pressing the button and panic knifing etc.
Agreed, Id like to see something like in BFBC2. No quick knifing like CoD and nothing animated like BF3.

[Top Sgt]

"Planetside 2 is not a military simulator"
"Planetside 2 is not an arcade shooter"
"Planetside 2 is not Planetside"
"Planetside 2 is not BF3"

You guys need to make up your minds or start putting a signature that says "Planetside 2 is what I'm currently thinking to be valid" which luckily is how I generally view it also, so we have a lot in common. :love:

it's not a mil. sim
it's not an "arcade" shooter
It's not PS1
and it's def not BF3

it's Planetside 2 and it does not need Quick knifing. lol

[Sifer2]

Honestly few things in modern FPS are more annoying than stupid overpowered knives. And quick knife just makes it 10 times worse. I think they have quick grenades in too. Which is also dumb. The delay of equipping this stuff helps keep down spam. Or if the Knife is OP it at least keeps it from so easily beating a Shotgun in a close range fight which is ridiculous. But a common thing to happen in Battlefield/CoD.

Personally I would vote for equip to Knife. And at least 2 to 3 stabs from the front to kill. If instant kill from behind is in then it needs an to require a short animation, and only trigger after holding the button for a few seconds without the victim facing you. Otherwise you get laggy facestab shenanigans.

[Sirisian]

Honestly few things in modern FPS are more annoying than stupid overpowered knives.
I don't want to beat a dead horse, but don't you think you're jumping to conclusions by assuming the knife has to be overpowered and that the implementation you saw in other games is the only implementation that would be possible in Planetside 2? Curious if you saw this implementation (http://www.planetside-universe.com/showpost.php?p=729825&postcount=110). What would be your complaint? Like your actual argument or fears about it?

(Also if anyone is curious, why I'm reiterating this idea it's because people won't read more than a few comments. So in order to properly hold a conversation every new poster must be brought up to speed with the group).

[Haro]

This seems like a remarkably minor point to argue, especially when I don't think I've seen footage of quick-knives actually doing anything. If a new animation or whatever makes everyone happy, fine. I just can't muster the energy to care. Not in the slightest.

[Hermes]

I must've put 10 posts in this thread and I've still not seen one non-fluff post as to why "quick melee" should even exist in PlanetSide... It simply isn't necessary.

Here's a reason.

When you need to reload, or have a weapon you can't run and gun with, and an enemy is right up in your face... you feel impotent. The game feels limited because you can't take it to close quarters, which is what your instincts are screaming at you to do.

I compare this to jumping.

If the game was scattered with knee high walls that your character could not jump over you would find this an infuriating limitation. This is the same to me when my instincts yell for a melee.

Also like jumping, a melee option is open to abuse and overuse and should be designed and tuned appropriately.

Equip the knife (like every other weapon in PlanetSide) and, as others have said, allow people to specialize in it. F' COD and it's 'quick knives'.

Lets do that as well. Have the equip knife as the damage dealer, and the quick melee as a get-out-of-my-grill button with a long enough cooldown to limit it to tactical use.

I support the rubber baton version of a quick knife, and the equipped knife for damage and specialisation. :D


Also the topic of "well suck less, spray n pray fool" is thrown about too much in these topics. This mixes up the ammo management game, it doesn't replace it.

[Dart]

Here's a reason.

When you need to reload, or have a weapon you can't run and gun with, and an enemy is right up in your face... you feel impotent. The game feels limited because you can't take it to close quarters, which is what your instincts are screaming at you to do.

I compare this to jumping.

If the game was scattered with knee high walls that your character could not jump over you would find this an infuriating limitation. This is the same to me when my instincts yell for a melee.

Also like jumping, a melee option is open to abuse and overuse and should be designed and tuned appropriately.



Lets do that as well. Have the equip knife as the damage dealer, and the quick melee as a get-out-of-my-grill button with a long enough cooldown to limit it to tactical use.

I support the rubber baton version of a quick knife, and the equipped knife for damage and specialisation. :D


Also the topic of "well suck less, spray n pray fool" is thrown about too much in these topics. This mixes up the ammo management game, it doesn't replace it.

Or... you know.... you could just plan the fight better and NOT end up with someone in your face while you're reloading. Or if that does happen accept you f'ed up and learn from it!

You said you can't take it to close quarters? Of course you can. Just switch your gun for your knife and go as close quarters as you like! It makes a lot more sense than sprouting a mutant third arm which will slash your enemy in 0.1 of a second!

Quick knife requires no skill to use and for the role players out there, makes absolutely no sense in real-world terms. The community is overwhelmingly against it and would clearly rather see JUST an equip knife in which you can specialize. Let's hope the devs realize this and give us what we want.

[Frotang]

Here's a reason.

When you need to reload, or have a weapon you can't run and gun with, and an enemy is right up in your face... you feel impotent. The game feels limited because you can't take it to close quarters, which is what your instincts are screaming at you to do.

So your basically saying in the heat of battle you stress out and want a quick one button solution to your current problem (no ammo and enemy in your face). While a more tactical and skillful player could assess the situation and decide if they have time to equip their knife and fight or choose an alternate solution. Ya I guess we should make it easy for your "instincts" to kick in sure why not.

[Dart]

So your basically saying in the heat of battle you stress out and want a quick one button solution to your current problem (no ammo and enemy in your face). While a more tactical and skillful player could assess the situation and decide if they have time to equip their knife and fight or choose an alternate solution. Ya I guess we should make it easy for your "instincts" to kick in sure why not.

Precisely. The short response to anyone asking for a "quick knife"? L2p!

[Hermes]

Or... you know.... you could just plan the fight better and NOT end up with someone in your face while you're reloading.

Deja-vu!

Also the topic of "well suck less, spray n pray fool" is thrown about too much in these topics. This mixes up the ammo management game, it doesn't replace it.


Or if that does happen accept you f'ed up and learn from it!

Or we can add a missing axis to the game and learn to play something new other than floaty turret deathmatch. :) This has nothing to do with learning to play the game, and everything to do with how we play it.

Its a tired old excuse. Ever played winter olympics? I'm sure we would have loved stagnating at the tap-two-buttons-as-fast-as-you can phase because new ideas were dismissed as a lack of aptitude.


You said you can't take it to close quarters? Of course you can. Just switch your gun for your knife and go as close quarters as you like! It makes a lot more sense than sprouting a mutant third arm which will slash your enemy in 0.1 of a second!

Note that i'm for rifle butt/pistol whip/pushing a fist in their face, not the crazy fast mutant third arm.

Also note that both strategies could exist. Quick snap in the face to gain time but with no damage, or go for your knife, or one then the other, or a quick snap then reload, or a quick snap so your mate can plug him.... it's depth of gameplay, options and tactics.


Quick knife requires no skill to use and for the role players out there, makes absolutely no sense in real-world terms. The community is overwhelmingly against it and would clearly rather see JUST an equip knife in which you can specialize. Let's hope the devs realize this and give us what we want.

Your definition of skill ends at counting shots then. Hardly very deep. :groovy:

A well implemented melee option adds skill rather than defeats it. Please remember that a damage focussed quick knife or lock on lunge one hit kills are not what I'm talking about.

[Hermes]

So your basically saying in the heat of battle you stress out and want a quick one button solution to your current problem (no ammo and enemy in your face). While a more tactical and skillful player could assess the situation and decide if they have time to equip their knife and fight or choose an alternate solution.

Hah! Well a non damaging quick melee is not a solution but a chain allowing another tactic. A tactical and skillful player would like a variety of balanced counters to any situation.

Here's the idea though, if you don't have time to reload or swap your weapon your solutions are to die or die while reloading. And it feels 1 dimensional to watch yourself sit through that if someone is right next to you.

Ya I guess we should make it easy for your "instincts" to kick in sure why not.

How dare you impune my instincts with quotes! :lol:

You've deliberately mis-constructed what I said as a one shot kill i-win button. Please try to be constructive.

[Dart]

With the pathetically low TTK's they currently have, it really doesn't matter. You can't lame around with knives because you will die long before you can reach someone, even if they suck at aiming. Quick knives would only cause any serious lameness if TTK's were higher and the knives killed instantly.

Everyone is missing the obvious though; the only reason they're even considering this, and we're debating this, is because it is from COD/BF. That's the unspoken misery that sparks all these 'debates' (i.e. rationalizations). Everyone knows they're trying to bring in more players by making the game more Battlefield-like, so there's a constant underlying tension between people who like that game, and those that don't.

Frankly I don't care, as long as they don't kill instantly and the TTK's are sufficiently high. It's just the lack of inspiration that bothers me. They could have come up with a dozen more imaginative kinds of melee, but they're going for the obvious quick knives because it's in all "modern shooters".

That's the kicker right there. It's not because it's a better game-mechanic. It's simply because a lot of 14-year olds are familiar with it. But cyco the reason I'm against quick knives isn't just because it'll be annoying as hell having guys stab you with a third arm (or rifile-butt you in the face, Hermes) whenever they run out of ammo but also because it'll mean that guys who're actually GOOD with a knife will be reduced to the same 'one button wonder' tactics that everyone else uses. It's removing an entire facet of the game which actually encourages skill and replacing it with one that doesn't.

And Hermes, in my opinion, if you have a knife you can equip there is absolutely not need for any kind of one button escape route. That isn't an extra dimension, that's a crutch. If you want to add an extra dimension, create a thread about more melee options such as parrying.

[Frotang]

Well Im not a fan of over complicating mele by having all these different options for a knife/ rifle bash/ stun or whatever. Just have an equippable knife that you must manually attack and aim with thats it plain and simple.

And I didn't interpret your instincts as a OHK. I interpreted it as a panicked "omg no ammo guy in my face spam for my mele key! Phew thank goodness for the game being able to translate my single key push into a combination of actions that I can now refer to as my instincts" option.

[Hermes]

But cyco the reason I'm against quick knives isn't just because it'll be annoying as hell having guys stab you with a third arm (or rifile-butt you in the face, Hermes) whenever they run out of ammo but also because it'll mean that guys who're actually GOOD with a knife will be reduced to the same 'one button wonder' tactics that everyone else uses. It's removing an entire facet of the game which actually encourages skill and replacing it with one that doesn't.

My one button tactic ain't a wonder. It's not effective by itself, and is useless except when you are bumping noses in a corridor.

Without a doubt, im fully against any implementation of this that replaces gun play in medium range firefights.

And Hermes, in my opinion, if you have a knife you can equip there is absolutely not need for any kind of one button escape route. That isn't an extra dimension, that's a crutch.
It's an extra dimension as it gives you an option for when you don't have enough time for a weapon swap. Which has to be slow enough to prevent the equipped knife being a quick knife. And I agree that a high damage quick knife is a poor game addition.

It's only a crutch if it's use always signifys a win. What it should do is force another round of reactions from attacker and defender, or allow teamwork:

- I'm almost dead, I spank the opponent, my team mate drops him.
- I'm out of ammo, I spank the opponent, dodge towards cover to reload he tracks faster and still wins

Cooldowns, immunity from further spanks, lack of damage, these things all prevent it becoming a one hit wonder or spammable tactic. And it's only usable when you are up close. People only forgo shooting altogether in favour of melee because they know if they get close they win. This is not the case with what I propose.

If you want to add an extra dimension, create a thread about more melee options such as parrying.

The poll has an option for rifle butt. I posted how I saw rifle butts being used a while back. The OP thought it was an interesting idea. The thread is called "Quick Knife - Is it really the best option?".

I think I'm allowed in this thread with my rifle butt idea thanks! :D

EDIT: Added some clarity.

[Kilmoran]

If you are creeping up on some guy to do a stealth kill, then there's no need to have a "quick knife".

Someone else mention the knife attack in BF3, and I agree, it's very well done. The only problem I have with it is that you can creep on a guy with your gun out and just hit a quick button to get the knife kill. That's not realistic or fair. It gives the attacker a "backup plan" of having a gun at the ready in case they get caught. Funk Dat!

By all means, sneak, creep, and cut a fool - but go "all in" for it. If you're gonna get a one-shot silent kill - then it is fair that you are vulnerable when moving into position for it (equipped knife) and during the take-down (just like BF3).

What I DON'T want to see is some jerky running and swiping and getting kills left and right or camping around the corner of a door quick swiping people as they run out.

I haven't ever supported quick knife, thus i'm not sure why you quoted me to speak against it.

[Sledgecrushr]

The only way I can see anything like a quick knife would be a quick thrust of your rifle with a bayonet attached to it. Otherwise quickknifing third arm physics dont make sense at all.

[LZachariah]

If it were me, to try and satisfy 1. The modern-day-shooter-crowd, 2. The Planetside purists, and 3. The Assassin's Creed/Hitman crowd, I would make it that there is a quick-knife command that "does some damage" (depending on the enemy's armor and what certs/implants you have) and you could also "equip" your knife for auto-kills (this would not work on a MAX unit).

I think that would be my preferential balance. To be honest, this isn't too big an issue to me either way :-)

~Zachariah

[Hermes]

To be honest, this isn't too big an issue to me either way :-)

~Zachariah

You know In my heart of hearts this is how I feel too. :D

I can put forward an idea that I like, but the outcome isn't a game breaker for me. However it does occupy me while I'm compiling. ;)

[HeatLegend]

I dont get what people have against melee in an FPS game? Wether it should be quick or not is another thing, but in my opinion it is both realistic and more fun to have an alternative when you happen to get up close or behind someone rather than mow them down with bullets and give yourself away.

I remember in Bad Company 2 I had this one profile called Jack Ze Ripper on which I only used my knife and gadgets such as mortar (not to kill, just to cover myself when I changed position, it was good cover). I often used to be among the top with a KD above 1.

This one time I played Rush on Valparaiso I think it was in a full-game, and I got the Ace and Gold Squad-pin with 25/20 KD. Had to screenshot it, I dont think I've ever had a greater adrenaline rush while gaming than I had during those 20 minutes.

Anyway, that was just for fun when I had pretty much finished playing the game in its real fashion and wanted a challenge.

http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/242409_10150182983558860_3778469_o.jpg <<<<<<<<< aah, the memories

It says "39" kills below, never got what that was, maybe they counted in assists in that.

And to those who you see are really bad at going melee, just think of them as free kills, it wont hurt- Melees are the ones that are at a disadvantage.

[Talek Krell]

I agree with the OP on the aesthetics of the matter. The major downside is that quick knifing, from the design perspective, is not just the easy but also the cheap way out. A more complex system needs more animation, graphical work, and balancing to back it up and none of that is free. Still, it would be a nice thing.

For balance I'd like to see quick melee be lightly damaging and somewhat disruptive. Maybe a bit of knock back or screen shake. More damage from the back.
Drawing the knife would allow you to do some more serious damage. Turn on the secondary and attack from behind and it would probably be a fair one shot.

I like the bayonet idea too, I think.

[Dairian]

On this subject PS1 had it right. Equip your knife when out and ammo or if you have an implant booster. I use to cloak with the implant and knife people 2 times in the first mode and own. It wasn't that hard but you had to wait for your stamina to re-gen to do it again. Which kept it from being OP. Why have quick knife when you have a gun in your hand?

[captainkapautz]

In case noone said it yet.

Both quick-knife and equip-knife, please.

Quick-knife takes 2-4 hits to kill, equip-knife allows for 1-hit killmoves.

Or in short, steal BF3s knife.

[Phellix]

In case noone said it yet.

Both quick-knife and equip-knife, please.

Quick-knife takes 2-4 hits to kill, equip-knife allows for 1-hit killmoves.

Or in short, steal BF3s knife.

I'd say QK 3-4, equip 2, 1 hit would make stealthers silly retardedly op

[Tricky]

Melee was done best in TF2. Equip knife FTW

[captainkapautz]

I'd say QK 3-4, equip 2, 1 hit would make stealthers silly retardedly op

I said killmoves, not 1-hit kill.

I.e. sneak up behind a dude, wait for prompt (knife getting raised in BF3), press attack button, watch animation play out where you stab the shit outta the dude.

Even makes it possible to be shot during the animation so teammates can save each other from stabbitydeath.

Cloakers can easily be balanced being dropping stealth when attacking.

That and better having Darklight ready.

[GreatMazinkaise]

Melee was done best in TF2. Equip knife FTW

Well, apart from the Spy...

[jepaul]

Quick knife absolutely. People mentioned in here you must of done something wrong to use your knife. Really? I'm fing bored one night and want to spend 30 minutes sneaking around a hill simply to knife the sniper on top. I did nothing wrong other than to accomplish what I intended to when I started. We also have cash prices within our outfit for knife kills and other melee type battles ext. King of the hill is one of my favorite interanl contests.

[Knuckle]

How about Red Orchestra's style of doing thing's? You can rifle bash quickly, but it'll take three hits, or "charge" a hit up so that you can do a 1 to 2 hit kill. A bayonet would just allow more damage.

[qbert2]

If you're out of ammo and someone has a gun in your face you should feel impotent. You screwed up and are about to get shot in the face.

[Froglicker]

If you're out of ammo and someone has a gun in your face you should feel impotent. You screwed up and are about to get shot in the face.
No soldier is ever truly defenseless unless all their arms and legs are cut off or they are shot in the spine. Every single formal modern army trains their soldiers in at least basic melee combat. If you are caught without ammo with a gun in your face, you're at a severe disadvantage, not defeated. With skill and a little luck you should be able to at least have a chance to get through it.

As for the OP, I like the idea of a quick riflebutt-strike (or maybe a kick) along with equippable knife. Especially if the rifle strick has small knockback or a very short(like 1/2 sec) stun. It'd serve the purpose of creating some distance to more easily shoot the guy while the equippable knife serves for close range stealth kills.

Whatever ends up in at launch, just say NO to quick-knife

[Ratstomper]

No soldier is ever truly defenseless unless all their arms and legs are cut off or they are shot in the spine. Every single formal modern army trains their soldiers in at least basic melee combat. If you are caught without ammo with a gun in your face, you're at a severe disadvantage, not defeated. With skill and a little luck you should be able to at least have a chance to get through it.

Some would argue that a knife is much more dangerous up close than a gun is. A knife can give many grievous wounds in a short time, even worse wounds than a gunshot would. A gun is pretty awkward for firing at point blank range and bullets are only so big.

There's a reason why cops shoot guys who charge them with a knife.

[StumpyTheOzzie]

knives don't hurt people as much as bullets. Slicing open some skin that you can stick back together vs punching out inch wide holes of meat.

Especially when you're wearing body armour. Knives just slide off.

blunt attacks ignore armour better than knives. Quick knife is the devil, rifle butt smash is acceptable but neither one has a place in PS2.

Having said that, an infiltrator that sneaks up, knife out and has time and opportunity to cut someone's head off totally deserves it.

[Ratstomper]

knives don't hurt people as much as bullets. Slicing open some skin that you can stick back together vs punching out inch wide holes of meat.

Especially when you're wearing body armour. Knives just slide off.

blunt attacks ignore armour better than knives. Quick knife is the devil, rifle butt smash is acceptable but neither one has a place in PS2.

I would beg to differ, friend. Unless you're being shot with very high caliber rounds, a knife stab wound (who slashes with a knife??) will be much larger, cause more damage to internal organs and bleed out faster. Especially considering you could stab someone multiple times in the span of a couple seconds. Someone who knows how to use a knife in a fight (and since we're given ES knives, I'm assuming our soldiers do) can do serious damage.

Reality aside, though, I think there shouldn't be quick knife. No reason for it. knives won't be used very often anyway and quick-knife just seems like a way to shoehorn it where it doesn't belong. The really only viable situations where a knife is useful is A) you've run out of ammo and it's your last resort or B) You've snuck up on someone who isn't paying attention. There should be equippable knives to fill this niche.

[StumpyTheOzzie]

I would beg to differ, friend. Unless you're being shot with very high caliber rounds, a knife stab wound (who slashes with a knife??) will be much larger, cause more damage to internal organs and bleed out faster. Especially considering you could stab someone multiple times in the span of a couple seconds. Someone who knows how to use a knife in a fight (and since we're given ES knives, I'm assuming our soldiers do) can do serious damage.

Reality aside, though, I think there shouldn't be quick knife. No reason for it. knives won't be used very often anyway and quick-knife just seems like a way to shoehorn it where it doesn't belong. The really only viable situations where a knife is useful is A) you've run out of ammo and it's your last resort or B) You've snuck up on someone who isn't paying attention. There should be equippable knives to fill this niche.

You beg to differ eh? First up, all the quick knife animations I've seen have been slashing, not stabbing. That's why I talked about slashing.

Additionally, a high percentage of people who have been shot in the torso with the Austeyr has died. Combination of the tumbling, fragmenting bullets and the huge amount of energy that gets transferred into the body.
My Staff Sergeant got shot in the arm by an AK47 and lost it at the elbow.

People get knifed in the torso all the time and get stitched up in hospital with just a scar on one side of the body. The VAST majority of them do not die - opposite to the Austeyr.

quick knife should be as damaging as being yelled at, if it is added at all.

[Froglicker]

You beg to differ eh? First up, all the quick knife animations I've seen have been slashing, not stabbing. That's why I talked about slashing.
All the more reason why a quick-knife, at least the current iteration of it, is stupid.

Additionally, a high percentage of people who have been shot in the torso with the Austeyr has died. My Staff Sergeant got shot in the arm by an AK47 and lost it at the elbow.
Submachine guns and pistols, those are not. Those are both relatively HIGH CALIBER rifles, which Ratstomper specifically excluded from his argument.

People get knifed in the torso all the time and get stitched up in hospital with just a scar on one side of the body. The VAST majority of them do not die - opposite to the Austeyr.
I can only assume most people don't get shot by Austeyrs near medical facilities as do people who are knifed. Most civilians, gang members, and prisoners don't have access to highpowered rifles, but have much easier times getting knives and pointy things. I'd also assume soldiers are more likely to be shot by high powered rifles in battlefields where hospitals are either far or more difficult to get to, but I could be wrong.
Either way, if you have a gaping hole in your gut or throat, you're still gonna die without immediate medical attention. It doesn't matter whether it came from a blade or a bullet.

quick knife should be as damaging as being yelled at, if it is added at all.
Agreed.

EDIT: One more thing, If 2 guys were a few feet apart with one equipped with a rifle and the other a knife, the guy with the knife has the advantage. Its not too difficult to get inside/past the rifle's long barrel (it's minimum range, so to speak), grab the barrel to keep it pointed away from you, and go stab crazy on vulnerable spots of the other guy's body armor (no armor can be 100% protective and functionally maneuverable). So yeah, knives are still kinda useful in a gun fight.

[Vreki]

Personally, I'm against the rifle bash because I love the feeling of successfully bringing a knife to a gun fight. Sure it is slightly animalistic, but I feel like a goddamn champ when I can pull it off. Also, I think it'd be incredibly stupid to have it not 1-hit kill your opponent because why the hell would you use a knife to begin with then? I seem to be one against the world with having it be a 1-hit kill but again logistically it is easily feasible to kill someone with one hit from a knife and anyone who says otherwise clearly has little to no experience with knives (except for maybe cutting their food). I'll give three simple scenarios to explain why:

Scenario 1: If I'm behind you with a knife.
In this scenario I would knife upwards around the neck towards the skull, in doing so I sever the brain stem. By severing the brain stem you cut off motor function and basic functions like breathing. Outcome: You die.

Scenario 2: If I'm in front of you with a knife.
In this scenario I would thrust my knife through the spaces in your rib cage stabbing the heart (for added fun I give it a little twist and turn). Statistics say IF you receive immediate care (say, from a hospital) you have about a 33% chance of survival,we're on a battlefield and something tells me there are no hospital facilities on Auraxis that you can be carted of to. Outcome: You die.

Universal scenario: I'm in front or behind you with a knife.
There is also a stab that can work from either direction. Simply take the knife and thrust it downward into the soft part of the flesh in between the collar bone on the left side in close proximity of the neck toward the heart (once again, for added fun I can give it a little twist and turn). Once again, it ends up with a knife in your heart. Of course if you wanted to be tricky you could do it from the right side and angle it (though that of course takes a slightly longer blade). Outcome: You die. (Fun fact: this was a favorite of the Romans for execution because when done right you're dead before you hit the ground).

Needless to say, to not have people who are supposed to be soldiers unable to kill someone with a knife in 1 hit is absolutely preposterous. I will say I do support you having to switch to your knife though. If they unfortunately decided to keep the "quick knife", I still suggest they keep the 1-hit kill because it is easily possible and like I explained most plausible to kill someone that way.

I doubt you could do any of those on a corpse, let alone a living human.
Organs etc. are actually pretty well protected, and you seem intent on taking the most indirect route towards the target.

They may bleed to dead, but not before shooting you to pieces.

[Ratstomper]

You beg to differ eh? First up, all the quick knife animations I've seen have been slashing, not stabbing. That's why I talked about slashing.

Additionally, a high percentage of people who have been shot in the torso with the Austeyr has died. Combination of the tumbling, fragmenting bullets and the huge amount of energy that gets transferred into the body.
My Staff Sergeant got shot in the arm by an AK47 and lost it at the elbow.

People get knifed in the torso all the time and get stitched up in hospital with just a scar on one side of the body. The VAST majority of them do not die - opposite to the Austeyr.

quick knife should be as damaging as being yelled at, if it is added at all.

My initial response was to guns vs knives in reality. Guns, like knives rely on hitting vital spots on the body to kill (I'm sorry to hear about your Staff Sergeant; but he didn't die, did he?). Gun wounds can bleed out, but not as fast as comparable knife wounds will. A knife is a much larger body and it makes more grevious cuts and tears than small to medium caliber rounds. Bullets are comparatively very small (the steyr fires what? 5.56 NATOs?) and just have a lot of velocity behind them. My point was that if I were in a situation where I had a knife and was within short distance of someone with a gun, I would feel confident enough to take that fight if I needed to; because a gun, especially larger than a handgun, is much less weildy in a melee fight than a knife is and a knife can easily do comparable damage in that scenario.

I think we come from equally informed, but very, very different backgrounds. However, this point doesn't have much to do with the discussion anymore. I'll reiterate my last point. No quick-knifing; knives don't work well in the middle of firefights. they have their place, but it's not in quick-knifing.

[Rago]

Why dont you add a Option for me,if i got a Sword ;)
Melee Stuff is cool.

[MrKWalmsley]

There should be an "other" option, since I would like to see rifle bashing and knife equipping. The rifle bash wouldn't do that much damage, just knock them back a bit maybe, but is capable of killing if you do enough of it. If you want to do some sneaky assassinations, get your knife out and do it properly, as knives would naturally do far more damage than a rifle bash. Perhaps in this case rifle bash could be used to knock friendlies away who are blocking spawns if collision is added between friendlies.

[Hrongar]

They didn't teach us to pull out our knives in close quarters when we had a solid hunk of gun which could bludgeon very well. (bayonet optional etc etc)

Plus you already have the weapon in your hand, the knife needs to be drawn first. So I prefer rifle bash as melee with the option to equip a knife.

And yes putting on a quicklock knife holster etc etc CQC
METAL GEAR!!!!!!

Yes Yes I know

[MrKWalmsley]

Also, now that you mention it, fixed bayonets for those hardcore CQC fighters!

[StumpyTheOzzie]

even hitting someone with the end of the barrel will cause more upset and distress than a "quick-knife"

no quick knife ever.

[Boomhowser]

will tell you my opinion once ive had a chance to test it..

However for those of you saying melee is bad in fps game.. stop being so self righteous.. Many the time in Planetside I had infiltrated an enemy base, I had my rek, I had emp grenades and I had a pistol no spare ammo.. I relied on knife for kills it was silent and the shotgun pistol wasnt...

to those saying 1 hit kills with knife I disagree, should always be an element of danger so killing in 2 Hits is good enough

and quick Knife makes more sense than Baynet or rifle butting as a universal melee attack since everyone could carry one on thier person but not everyone will have rifles..

[Axios]

None of the above. I prefer nutcracker kick to be my quick melee.

[StumpyTheOzzie]

will tell you my opinion once ive had a chance to test it..

However for those of you saying melee is bad in fps game.. stop being so self righteous.. Many the time in Planetside I had infiltrated an enemy base, I had my rek, I had emp grenades and I had a pistol no spare ammo.. I relied on knife for kills it was silent and the shotgun pistol wasnt...

to those saying 1 hit kills with knife I disagree, should always be an element of danger so killing in 2 Hits is good enough

and quick Knife makes more sense than Baynet or rifle butting as a universal melee attack since everyone could carry one on thier person but not everyone will have rifles..

On about page 5 they went into a side track about pre-meditated stealth kills with knife being totally acceptable.

We're talking specifically about the QUICK knife doing a lot of damage or potentially outright kill.

And I'd love some sort of power sword for the MAX like those sword guys from HALO. They looked cool. But no "one button to equip an item from my belt and stab them in the throat and they die instantly and then re-equip the same item i had before". Or else we can have quick grenades, quick medic grenades, quick swaps to our pistols and other weapon (Holsters permitting) Quick engy turret deploys, quick scope sniping, and quick whatever else I've forgotten.

I even think blocks and ripostes similar to Skyrim would be acceptable. Some sort of riot shield and baton/cattle prod arrangement. But you need skill to time the blows and range and stuff. Skill, not keypresses. Otherwise i'd play wow.

[Froglicker]

and quick Knife makes more sense than Baynet or rifle butting as a universal melee attack since everyone could carry one on thier person but not everyone will have rifles..
Replace "rifle butting" with pistol whipping, shotgun clubbing, repair tool smacking, etc. Every equippable item is a viable blunt instrument of pain. No one's gonna be running around with pillows in their hands. Even if they for some reason have a soft item equipped, they can still kick.
I'd vote for a quick-bash-em-with-whatever-is-in-your-hands button over a quick-knife anyday.

[MorioMortis]

Quick knifes are an aberration, born from the transition between WW2 shooters (where most guns are stout enough to be used effectively as bludgeoning devices) towards modern day shooters (where most guns, except AK's, aren't really strong enough to stand up to bashing). Looking at the gear in PS, it appears sturdy enough to justify the former rather than the later, and, like others have posted earlier, most weapons above the carbine level should be able to mount a bayonet.

However, people still like to have melee weapons in-game, as they are (usually) a quick and silent (and undoubtedly stylish) way of killing others. Bringing back the equipable knife plays on those aspects and makes using a knife a tactical decision, rather than a spur of the moment reflex. Plus, knife duels are just classy, and the 2 damage level equipable knife (like in PS1 and CS) make them that much more interesting, and with the added bonus of making use of both the "knife" mode and the ES "heavy" mode for each knife.

Furthermore, the inclusion of equipable knifes means that you can further differentiate the two attack modes, for instance, by adding armor-piercing to the heavy attack, to kill MAXs and, over time, vehicles (after all, those things are mag-cutters, portable saws and power knifes).

[Noivad]

Voted #3 keep it like PS1

[MightyJellyFish]

They used the quick knife to appeal to more casual audiences right? But I'm only 16 I could be considered a casual console player. The only game me and my friends enjoyed the melee attacks was Halo Reach with animated kills if you held the button, you actually break they're neck or stab them in the neck.

Quick knife looks so stupid and is never satisfying or fun to pull off. If they wanted to appeal to a wider audience they should have put in animated kills in my humble opinion.

As for the poll I like a quick melee bash like a kick or punch to disorientate for less than second and give the two of us time to equip knifes.

Also I'm all in favour of backstabbing instant kills as long as it takes a long time like an animated kill or holding the button for a little bar to fill up.

[Jeepo]

Equip the knife. Then it is a conscious decision with all the consequences good and bad that go with that decision. Quick knife is pretty lame.

[SergeantNubins]

The problem with quick knife, as far as I can see, is that it somehow makes a knife attack, against an armoured opponent, more powerful than a bullet. That just isn't the case.

I would't mind a quick melee attack, but I think it needs to be a quick stun, rather than a quick kill. Then you can have a virbroblade or whatever as an equippable weapon for an infiltrator that is more deadly (im fine with seeing a planned backstab killing someone, just not a scrambled slash with a pocket knife, which is what it looks like in most shooters).

[MightyJellyFish]

The problem with quick knife, as far as I can see, is that it somehow makes a knife attack, against an armoured opponent, more powerful than a bullet. That just isn't the case.

^This :).

Also the quick knife animation could at least be a stab instead of a pathetic slash that doesn't even look like they are hitting them.

Head shots, explosions and even a spray of bullets into someone's chest are very satisfying (not to mention badass looking) compared to *swish swish swish guy falls over* -_-

[GreatMazinkaise]

^This :).

Also the quick knife animation could at least be a stab instead of a pathetic slash that doesn't even look like they are hitting them.

Head shots, explosions and even a spray of bullets into someone's chest are very satisfying (not to mention badass looking) compared to *swish swish swish guy falls over* -_-

This is a big problem with the current animations... Norman Bates was wrong, YOU DO NOT HOLD A KNIFE THAT WAY.

[The Kush]

I would be okay with a rifle bash, but I don't care really to have it in.

Either way the community has spoken, no gay ass quick knife.

Quick knife = fail

[Monsta]

50% damage for stealth class (unupgraded) when doing it from the back, all others classes or different stab positions 25% damage (unupgraded). If you don't like the stabs you are not shooting me accurate enough. + you can walk a little faster when having the knife selected. At least let me trow the knife at ya in case i am out of power xD

[Zalmoxis]

I want a bayonet option here! Makes the most sense out of every suggestion here so far.

Edit: Made a topic in the idea vault with this :)