NC Corporate Involvement.

[ArbitraryDemise]

With the new background stories that are in place, it seems like the NC have far more in the way of corporate backing than before.

It also sounds like the NC include large mercenary contingents.

Does this make the NC corporate lackeys?

[Khrusky]

Yes. Yes it does. ;)

[Canaris]

Yes. Yes it does. ;)

QFT

[Traenor]

That completely depends on who is looking at it. I, as the enlightened Vanu follower, know that the "freedom fighters" from NC in reality only fight for the freedom for the corporations, as the corporations didnt like the TR´s meddling in their affairs.

(The new lore makes all factions both have good and bad sides, and the large corporate dependency from NC is one of the weaknesses, since NC often talk about freedom for the common man)

[ArbitraryDemise]

It is one of the more interesting facets of this game. As anyone who gets into the story behind a faction has to deal with both the good and the bad.

In a way, it means that there are no "good" guys in this game.

[The Degenatron]

It makes us libertarian! Laissez Faire!

The markets will decide you commie pigs!

But you know...it does bring up a question as to why the NC are so "cobbled together" in their equipment. You'd think a bunch of quadrillion dollar companies could buy some decent tech.

[Ratstomper]

I think that the vast majority of the NC are civilian laborers that were sent by the NC on earth to assist in Connery's mission, a smaller fraction are mercenaries also hired by NC to act as security and the smallest fraction being actual corporate businessmen. Once the wormhole closed behind them and took out a lot of the ships containing supplies, the NC on earth no longer had any way to supply the voyage or NC. The resources and money on Auraxis are held by the TR, what little NC have are what civilian laborers have patchworked together or scrounged up on battlefields.

In my thinking, they were just employees of a (not so bad) corporation at one point, but have since become a different entity on auraxis; a force to protect and fight for individual freedoms for non-military. This is a similar ideology held by the NC on earth, which explains why they kept the name.

I.E. The NC armor and guns look like they've been scrapped together and repaired after extensive use. Additionally, the MAX units look like some kind of modified mechanical loader that has have guns and armor welded to it. Kind of a testament to the fact that they don't have the money or resources TR and Vanu have, just a lot of practical know-how, which makes sense because they're mostly laborers.

[Hobitt]

A conglomerate is a combination of two or more corporations engaged in entirely different businesses that fall under one corporate structure (a corporate group), usually involving a parent company and several (or many) subsidiaries. Often, a conglomerate is a multi-industry company. Conglomerates are often large and multinational.
didint know what that word ment lol

[Ailos]

It makes the NC be the people that actually drove the economic development and progression back on Earth. While the TR are the military folks who kept everyone in order and the VS are the extreme nerds working on ridiculous technologies, the NC are the people who actually made the transition from state-sponsored space travel for a few scientists a year to commercial flights available to everyone.

Think of it this way: the TR are the Airforce, the VS are NASA, and the NC are SpaceX.

[Oryon22]

They are the 1%

[Ailos]

They are the 1%

Lol, yeah.

[NewSith]

NC remind me of Taliban (no offense to any NC player): funded by shadows, fighting with pawns and rusty equipment, yet having a powerful network worldwide.


If I had a decent speaker voice and was good with 3DMax and Aftereffects, I would introduce a cool video with some facts and thoughts about empires.

[Malorn]

NC outfit - TOP - The One Percent

:)

Quite perfect for a Leetfit name.

[TheDrone]

NC are corporate lackeys fighting for the power of the few, VS are insane religious zealots.

TR are the only thing standing between humanity and oblivion.

It's really that simple.

[Malorn]

Lore-wise in PS1 the NC seemed vaguely corporate-related with "industrialists" and experimental tech. Looks much more so in PS2. Makes sense. You don't start a rebellion against a well armed military like the TR without some serious backing.

Other perks of this lore:

* Makes the NC a bit more grey, as opposed to being the clear "good guys" of the PlanetSide universe, which I thought they were in PS1. The corporate backing allows for reasonable questioning of their motives.

* Makes them seem less like crazy zealous freedom fighters and allows the words "zealous" and "crazy" to be attributed to the VS.

* Makes the NC seem more serious, more organized, and more dangerous than just a ragtag group of scavenging rebels.


With the corporate involvement all three empires are in the moral middle ground
NC - Freedom fighters, or Greedy Corporate Lackeys?
VS - Human Evolution, or Techno-nutjobs?
TR - Saviors of Humanity, or Corrupt Oppressors?

There's evidence for both perspectives for each empire, which is fantastic.

[Ailos]

NC remind me of Taliban (no offense to any NC player): funded by shadows, fighting with pawns and rusty equipment, yet having a powerful network worldwide.


If I had a decent speaker voice and was good with 3DMax and Aftereffects, I would introduce a cool video with some facts and thoughts about empires.

Personally, I feel that the 1% description is a bit more fitting. Taliban couldn't even afford the fuel bill for the Vanguard, let alone the armor it has, or any of the MAG cannons we use.

[NewSith]

NC are corporate lackeys fighting for the power of the few, VS are insane religious zealots.

TR are the only thing standing between humanity and oblivion.

It's really that simple.

TR is idd something standing between humanity and oblivion, no wonder NC and VS were formed.

[Hobitt]

Yep NC use this freedom fighter bs to cover up their true goals if they would be just rebels with little bit of backing they would be wiped out a long time ago

[NewSith]

Personally, I feel that the 1% description is a bit more fitting. Taliban couldn't even afford the fuel bill for the Vanguard, let alone the armor it has, or any of the MAG cannons we use.

I would argue with that, because NC have the basement to actually fight for something. I doubt people pulling the strings would have been able to achieve anything if there were no strings to pull. People fighting for NC actually believe in freedom, that's the point.

[ChargerCarl]

http://www.tdbimg.com/files/2009/06/05/img-bs-top---deutschman-angelo-mozilo_060902758140.jpg

come at us bro's

[Malorn]

The NC are Serious Business.

[Vorgan]

Corporate lackeys? Why does associating with corporations inherently make them lackeys? Corporations aren't inherently evil, and while they obviously have to focus on profits, they have a vested interest in creating a stable and tenable economic/social environment.

The TR seize corporations and oppress civilians (much like authoritarian leftist regimes on Earth today).

The NC seem to want a free, functioning economy. Corporations throwing their significant weight behind a movement based on freedom for individuals doesn't make those individuals lackeys: it means the men and women leading those corporations have good goals.

If you can't accept that corporations aren't all evil, then at least consider this: the NC corporations know that the TR and VS are bad business. If they betray the NC workers/civilians/soldiers, they will be seen as no better than the TR leadership, and will be turned on. They have every reason to support the NC movement.

...but maybe my point of view stems from my corporate aspirations.

[Sabrak]

I would argue with that, because NC have the basement to actually fight for something. I doubt people pulling the strings would have been able to achieve anything if there were no strings to pull. People fighting for NC actually believe in freedom, that's the point.

Well, most NCs probably are idealists freedom fighters, but I see the New Conglomerate as having a core of corporations' mercenaries.
Those mercenaries were the original NC, and with propaganda from the big and rich corporations, the New Conglomerate would eventually be seen as the "freedom fighter", hence people joining them, even if their first goal is/was to fight for "the 1%".

At least, that's how I see it.

And as a NC player, and perhaps a future outfit leader, I see my character more as a mercenary than as a idealist fighter.

[ArbitraryDemise]

TR are the only thing standing between humanity and oblivion.

It's really that simple.

I support this statement 100%.

[Unforgiven]

as a TR i Agree with Sabrak, the actual NC troops are doing it for the right reasons, but their financial backing will be the ones who take the power, not the troops. its just good business to let someone else hande the dirty work, that way IF they fail, the corporations walk away with clean hands and little to no loss.

but if they win, the corporations take over everything and do whatever they want, and nobody can stop them because now they will have a loyal army to continue the dirty work.

[ArbitraryDemise]

...but maybe my point of view stems from my corporate aspirations.

By the same token, I come from the opposite side of this discussion. I've always seen corporations, and by extension corporate culture as border-line toxic. Too often political back-stabbing, and nepotism is often used as the reason for the rise and fall of individual careers.

I can see the good in corporations, in many ways they allow technologies to be designed and built on a scale that would otherwise be impossible. Yet, whenever a corporation involves itself in a cause, I find myself remaining leery of such.

After all, a corporation only exists to be profitable.

[Whalenator]

Look at all the TR **** shitting all over this thread

[Vorgan]

as a TR i Agree with Sabrak, the actual NC troops are doing it for the right reasons, but their financial backing will be the ones who take the power, not the troops. its just good business to let someone else hande the dirty work, that way IF they fail, the corporations walk away with clean hands and little to no loss.

but if they win, the corporations take over everything and do whatever they want, and nobody can stop them because now they will have a loyal army to continue the dirty work.

Nah that's inaccurate. If the NC lose, those same corporations will be gutted and their leadership imprisoned/executed by the TR.

The corporations oppose the TR because the TR leadership has a habit of nationalizing corporations.

By siding openly with the NC and providing them with advances technology, the corporations are putting themselves on the line just as much as the citizens. While they may not be fighting directly, the reason is obvious: they're civilians, and someone has to provide financial backing. Without the corporations, there is no New Conglomerate.

All they want-- "they" meaning the citizens, soldiers, and corporate figures of the NC-- is freedom from the TR's wanton authoritarianism.

[Vorgan]

By the same token, I come from the opposite side of this discussion. I've always seen corporations, and by extension corporate culture as border-line toxic. Too often political back-stabbing, and nepotism is often used as the reason for the rise and fall of individual careers.

I can see the good in corporations, in many ways they allow technologies to be designed and built on a scale that would otherwise be impossible. Yet, whenever a corporation involves itself in a cause, I find myself remaining leery of such.

After all, a corporation only exists to be profitable.

I completely understand where you're coming from there. The evils of corporate culture are readily apparent, which is why corporate oversight is essential.

I worked for a major bank a couple of years back, in their compliance department. My entire job was ensuring that the company was in line with U.S. government regulation, and that our lending practices were focused on revitalizing communities. That bank did more for my city than almost any other group or movement-- far more than our state's federal government. This bank funds community development corporations and the like, making sure that people who need help, get help.

That really has colored my view of corporations, and that's how I look at the NC's corporations. Some are probably opportunistic and looking only to get away from the TR to ensure profits. Others, though, may be led by people who want to use their considerable influence to give people better lives.

In no way does any of this negate your stance, of course; I think we both have legitimate arguments here.

I have to ask, though: what's the appeal of the TR? At least the NC have that element of freedom fighting (which some genuinely believe). Sure, the TR unified earth, but the Chinese Communist Party united disparate parts of modern China, but I imagine many Tibetans and Uyghurs would argue that it wasn't for the best.

[Shiftfaced]

After all, a corporation only exists to be profitable.

exactly. And a lot of people feel that profit is an evil thing. There is nothing wrong with making profit. It's just how it's done is the issue in my eyes. Of course corporations will follow the nc bc it is in their best interest. Because of the corporate backing nc gets, it makes it seem a little shady behind closed doors. I agree with freedom and a free market that nc preaches.

On a side note I'm not going nc in game.

[Malorn]

Look at all the TR **** shitting all over this thread

And there's the non-corporate side of the NC.

[Shiftfaced]

Nah that's inaccurate. If the NC lose, those same corporations will be gutted and their leadership imprisoned/executed by the TR.

The corporations oppose the TR because the TR leadership has a habit of nationalizing corporations.

By siding openly with the NC and providing them with advances technology, the corporations are putting themselves on the line just as much as the citizens. While they may not be fighting directly, the reason is obvious: they're civilians, and someone has to provide financial backing. Without the corporations, there is no New Conglomerate.

All they want-- "they" meaning the citizens, soldiers, and corporate figures of the NC-- is freedom from the TR's wanton authoritarianism.

Of course that's assuming the vs do not win. Do not underestimate the vs. thats how you get screwed hard

[Vorgan]

Of course that's assuming the vs do not win. Do not underestimate the vs. thats how you get screwed hard

I have a hard time figuring out exactly what victory conditions are for the VS, or what they would do if they won. If the TR win, it's pretty clear that the VS and NC would be dealt with harshly. If the VS win, they'd...what? Establish an independent collective and let the NC and TR sort out their differences?


And there's the non-corporate side of the NC.

:rofl:

[Red Beard]

Corporate lackeys? Why does associating with corporations inherently make them lackeys? Corporations aren't inherently evil, and while they obviously have to focus on profits, they have a vested interest in creating a stable and tenable economic/social environment.

The TR seize corporations and oppress civilians (much like authoritarian leftist regimes on Earth today).

The NC seem to want a free, functioning economy. Corporations throwing their significant weight behind a movement based on freedom for individuals doesn't make those individuals lackeys: it means the men and women leading those corporations have good goals.

If you can't accept that corporations aren't all evil, then at least consider this: the NC corporations know that the TR and VS are bad business. If they betray the NC workers/civilians/soldiers, they will be seen as no better than the TR leadership, and will be turned on. They have every reason to support the NC movement.

...but maybe my point of view stems from my corporate aspirations.

Clearly you have a lot to learn about the derivatives market! :lol:

I completely understand where you're coming from there. The evils of corporate culture are readily apparent, which is why corporate oversight is essential.

Also there's already laws in place that they're already breaking, but the banking institution has enough control over the economy that gov officials are just looking the other way, allowing systemic, mass fraud to take place; all under the guise of "letting the market sort it out".

http://maxkeiser.com/

[Retaliation]

I have a hard time figuring out exactly what victory conditions are for the VS, or what they would do if they won. If the TR win, it's pretty clear that the VS and NC would be dealt with harshly. If the VS win, they'd...what? Establish an independent collective and let the NC and TR sort out their differences?


If the VS won they would begin reshaping all of humanity towards what they believe is best. I.E. large scale genetic and cybernetic "enhancements" in order to remove what they view as fundamental human problems.

[Shiftfaced]

I have a hard time figuring out exactly what victory conditions are for the VS, or what they would do if they won. If the TR win, it's pretty clear that the VS and NC would be dealt with harshly. If the VS win, they'd...what? Establish an independent collective and let the NC and TR sort out their differences?




:rofl:

Again you are underestimating the views of the vs. Bc of tr and nc at war, the vs took up the responsibility to try and preserve the world that vanu once inhabited as well as to help humanity reach its full potential bc the war could easily destroy the world they are living on.

[Vorgan]

Clearly you have a lot to learn about the derivatives market! :lol:



Also there's already laws in place that they're already breaking, but the banking institution has enough control over the economy that gov officials are just looking the other way, allowing systemic, mass fraud to take place; all under the guise of "letting the market sort it out".

http://maxkeiser.com/

I'm still a student, plenty of time to learn :) But within the context of PS2, what with it's rather superficial lore, I'm not sure how much it matters...despite my incessant pontification haha.

Regarding the laws that are already in place: that's true, but when I say "oversight" I mean legitimate regulation, both internal and federal. If the regulation doesn't work, then it isn't regulating the companies (obviously). We're getting into real-world issues now though, let's keep this in the context of PS2, eh?


Again you are underestimating the views of the vs. Bc of tr and nc at war, the vs took up the responsibility to try and preserve the world that vanu once inhabited as well as to help humanity reach its full potential bc the war could easily destroy the world they are living on.

Hence my request for clarification :) So the VS want to wipe out the NC and TR so that they don't threaten Auraxis? Is that the goal?

[Red Beard]

I'm still a student, plenty of time to learn :) But within the context of PS2, what with it's rather superficial lore, I'm not sure how much it matters...despite my incessant pontification haha.

Yeah sorry I get excited easily :) Check out that link though...that guy used to be a wall street guy and now he spills the beans on how the system operates and give analysis on current events based on his understanding on how the game is played. Really good stuff.

[Neurotoxin]

http://www.planetside-universe.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=466&stc=1&d=1336369873

[Red Beard]

http://www.planetside-universe.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=466&stc=1&d=1336369873

That is the coolest thing I've ever seen.

[Vorgan]

Yeah sorry I get excited easily :) Check out that link though...that guy used to be a wall street guy and now he spills the beans on how the system operates and give analysis on current events based on his understanding on how the game is played. Really good stuff.

Haha no worries, it's easy to get excited about this (awesome topic, after all). I'll absolutely check out that link. I'm obviously not opposed to corporations in general, but when they run amok they cause horrific amounts of damage. Big fan of people who have an inside perspective and point out the system's failings. Thanks for the link :)

[Malorn]

http://www.planetside-universe.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=466&stc=1&d=1336369873

True VS propaganda would show the NC as the 45% :)

[Shiftfaced]

Off topic related. I was really stuck between all the factions. But after reading all the lore, which is something I have always enjoyed, and participating in threads where you defend a faction like this one, I am amazed at how strong the bonds are forming between that faction and myself. I never played ps so this is all new to me as if last week but it's crazy how it is starting to set in. The people at soe are doing an awesome job. K back on topic :)

[Neurotoxin]

I dunno Malorn, a lot of non-combat civilian population has defected from NC ships to VS ships. Maybe its because we have hydroponic gardens and a dense protein cloner, and you can only recycle used proteins into poop meat. (http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/06/17/japanese-scientists-create-meat-from-poop/)

[Red Beard]

I dunno Malorn, a lot of non-combat civilian population has defected from NC ships to VS ships. Maybe its because we have hydroponic gardens and a dense protein cloner, and you can only recycle used proteins into poop meat. (http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/06/17/japanese-scientists-create-meat-from-poop/)

:lol: Some things are just better natural!

*Warning: may contain recycled Vanu :rofl:

Edit:

Guess what they're going to start adding to ground beef to reduce production costs... :sick:

[archaonn]

I like how all 3 factions have pros and cons in their lore. I chose NC beacuse I think my self as an anarchist, but I dont agree with the corporations philosophy. I think when you choose one of the three factions youll need to deal with the fact that theres something that you arent going to like.

pd: Im definitley going to do some guerrilla warfare out there in the battlefield.

[Red Beard]

I like how all 3 factions have pros and cons in their lore. I chose NC beacuse I think my self as an anarchist, but I dont agree with the corporations philosophy. I think when you choose one of the three factions youll need to deal with the fact that theres something that you arent going to like.

pd: Im definitley going to do some guerrilla warfare out there in the battlefield.

The union of government and freedom is self-government! ;)

[Ratstomper]

I think the modern climate has given corporations a bad name. Think of corporations that don't necessarily follow "profit", SpaceX being one off the top of my head. Paypay really took off, but Elon Musk's other companies (Tesla Motors and SpaceX) nearly went bankrupt multiple times. It was a big risk to take and, for all intents and purposes, he seems to have done it for the sake of making a fuel-independent car and making space travel a more practical thing. Both of those things are good for humanity, even if it happens to bring the companies profit. I wouldn't call taking risks like that greedy.I feel like NC is similar. It would be easy for the conglomerate to sit on it's money, instead it's invested in the interest of all involved.

Although, I would still reiterate that NC's roots are in corporations. All connections with the main conglomerate (and it's resources) were lost when the wormhole closed, and now it's mainly just combined civilian/mercenary-rebel factions fighting for freedom, not so much profit.

Off topic related. I was really stuck between all the factions. But after reading all the lore, which is something I have always enjoyed, and participating in threads where you defend a faction like this one, I am amazed at how strong the bonds are forming between that faction and myself. I never played ps so this is all new to me as if last week but it's crazy how it is starting to set in. The people at soe are doing an awesome job. K back on topic :)

Just wait until you get in game and start getting familiar with individual players. Socially you'll grow accustomed to people who will eventually turn into diehard faction allies and you'll also start to recognize enemy names as "That son of a bitch who killed me 5 times yesterday". It adds a whole social loyalty layer and really concretes the "faction loyalty".

I still hate anyone with "TRx" in their name from PS1. Filthy red bastards. :lol:

[Kriegson]

I think that the vast majority of the NC are civilian laborers that were sent by the NC on earth to assist in Connery's mission, a smaller fraction are mercenaries also hired by NC to act as security and the smallest fraction being actual corporate businessmen. Once the wormhole closed behind them and took out a lot of the ships containing supplies, the NC on earth no longer had any way to supply the voyage or NC. The resources and money on Auraxis are held by the TR, what little NC have are what civilian laborers have patchworked together or scrounged up on battlefields.

In my thinking, they were just employees of a (not so bad) corporation at one point, but have since become a different entity on auraxis; a force to protect and fight for individual freedoms for non-military. This is a similar ideology held by the NC on earth, which explains why they kept the name.

I.E. The NC armor and guns look like they've been scrapped together and repaired after extensive use. Additionally, the MAX units look like some kind of modified mechanical loader that has have guns and armor welded to it. Kind of a testament to the fact that they don't have the money or resources TR and Vanu have, just a lot of practical know-how, which makes sense because they're mostly laborers.

Best bit in here imo.
In summary:
Yes, corporations back them
Yes, mercenaries likely command and train the majority of their forces
The majority of their forces consist of civilians (Laborers mostly)

So while they were founded and funded by a corporation, it's not exactly an evil one. And the vast majority of the fighters within are in fact fighting for freedom against oppression (TR) and to persevere the human race from the so called ascension of mankind others want to bring about (VS).

[Otleaz]

Even if we assume the NC aren't a bunch of corporate lackeys, they are still all stupid kids who jumped into a war with no understanding of what will happen after the war, blindly focusing on "freedom".

[archaonn]

Why do you assume they dont know what will happen after war?

The only faction that "knows" what to do after war is the TR, and I see a future covered in blood, with no rights if they win.

The vanu belives that this alien tech will bring us everything we need to be a better race, but they dont know what to expect.

So, dont label us, thnks.

[Ratstomper]

Best bit in here imo.
In summary:
Yes, corporations back them
Yes, mercenaries likely command and train the majority of their forces
The majority of their forces consist of civilians (Laborers mostly)

So while they were founded and funded by a corporation, it's not exactly an evil one. And the vast majority of the fighters within are in fact fighting for freedom against oppression (TR) and to persevere the human race from the so called ascension of mankind others want to bring about (VS).

All spot on in my view, except the fact that they aren't really backed by corporations anymore. Whatever power holders sent the NC through the wormhole are still back on earth, so the NC (being mostly hired civilian laborers, some mercenary groups and probably a handful of corporate overseers) don't have those resources anymore, just a lot of practical engineering knowhow (most likely from their laborers) and guerilla tactics (most likely from their mercenary contingent).

That explains why NC equipment is mostly makeshift and very well-maintained, they don't have the resources TR do or the technology the VS uncovered... just a lot of really smart, dedicated civilian-soldiers.

I feel like they're almost a separate entity from the earth NC at this point, who seemed to have used mainly economic influence and politics to try to secure freedom for the terran populace. The Auraxis NC retain the desire for freedom, but fight for it in a very different manner. In fact, I wonder if the business-oriented NC on earth would even associate themselves with the freedom-fighter NC on Auraxis...

[Red Beard]

Even if we assume the NC aren't a bunch of corporate lackeys, they are still all stupid kids who jumped into a war with no understanding of what will happen after the war, blindly focusing on "freedom".

"Those willing to sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither, and will loose both."
-Benjamin Franklin

;)

[Unforgiven]

If the VS won they would begin reshaping all of humanity towards what they believe is best. I.E. large scale genetic and cybernetic "enhancements" in order to remove what they view as fundamental human problems.

and are these "enhancements" mandatory? sounds opressive to me, what if i dont want to be genetically altered to serve some wack-job's idea of a "master race"

[Vorgan]

All spot on in my view, except the fact that they aren't really backed by corporations anymore.

Who's to say that those corporations don't have a presence on Auraxis? A headquarters there, for example. As soldiers, we only really see the battlefield rather than civilian population centers (where, presumably, these corporations would be headquartered). The lore I've read seems to suggest that the NC on Auraxis also have corporate backing.

[LostAlgorithm]

Better to be a corporate lackey than a traitor's henchman, which is basically what the TR now are. Current TR leadership murdered President Connery and nearly 600 other citizens in a power grab and then set it up so that it looked like the NC did it. When I found that out, I lost any desire to be a part of the faction. I believe in the TR goals of unification, control, and peace, but can't play one considering it would require me to pretend I'm ignorant of how despicable my leadership is story wise.

Serving a corporation may not be perfect, but I'd say it's better than being a traitor's lapdog.

[Shiftfaced]

Better to be a corporate lackey than a traitor's henchman, which is basically what the TR now are. Current TR leadership murdered President Connery and nearly 600 other citizens in a power grab and then set it up so that it looked like the NC did it. When I found that out, I lost any desire to be a part of the faction. I believe in the TR goals of unification, control, and peace, but can't play one considering it would require me to pretend I'm ignorant of how despicable my leadership is story wise.

Serving a corporation may not be perfect, but I'd say it's better than being a traitor's lapdog.

^^

[TheDrone]

Better to be a corporate lackey than a traitor's henchman, which is basically what the TR now are. Current TR leadership murdered President Connery and nearly 600 other citizens in a power grab and then set it up so that it looked like the NC did it. When I found that out, I lost any desire to be a part of the faction. I believe in the TR goals of unification, control, and peace, but can't play one considering it would require me to pretend I'm ignorant of how despicable my leadership is story wise.

Serving a corporation may not be perfect, but I'd say it's better than being a traitor's lapdog.

The leadership may be self-serving and treasonous, but it's still superior to laissez-faire self-interest and pseudo-scientific religious zealotry.

Legitimacy is derived from being able to achieve the goal of conquering the challenges ahead. From nothing else.
NC and VS are inherently denied this ability.

[Retaliation]

and are these "enhancements" mandatory? sounds opressive to me, what if i dont want to be genetically altered to serve some wack-job's idea of a "master race"

Yes. The Vanu believe neither the TR or NC offer a solution to humanity's woes because humanity is fundamentally flawed. At best it would be like in many Islamic countries where you and your family would be disadvantaged unless you converted to Islam. The "middle" result of a vanu victory would be the previous result with the added bonus of any children you have would be genetically altered before birth to suit the VS view of the perfect human and educated in overwhelmingly pro vanu schools. At worst they'll force it upon you and the behavior modification means you won't even care by the end.

The NC will take away your Security
The TR will take away your Freedom
The VS will take away your Humanity.

[LostAlgorithm]

Before anyone goes there, yes, the NC are traitors too, but I'd say the former spirit of the Republic lies more with them than it does the current TR. Part of the reason Connery was killed was because he sympathized and didn't want to crack down too harshly on his citizens.

To put it simply, the Republic no longer exists on Auraxis. All of the factions are traitors to the Republic, the question is which is working towards the best goals for those who remain. I think an argument in that regard can be made for either the NC or the VS, but not the TR with their current leadership. When a faction is willing to kill its own President and loyal citizens for power and authority it quite clearly stops being the one working towards their best interests.

[Ratstomper]

Who's to say that those corporations don't have a presence on Auraxis? A headquarters there, for example. As soldiers, we only really see the battlefield rather than civilian population centers (where, presumably, these corporations would be headquartered). The lore I've read seems to suggest that the NC on Auraxis also have corporate backing.

I suppose it's possible I read the lore wrong, but to my eyes, the wormhole the voyage went through wasn't supposed to close like it did (which is why they lost a bunch of ships right off the bat). My understanding was that the NC on earth funded all the laborers and mercenaries and probably sent a few overseers to keep an eye on things and sort of left Connery in charge of it (remember Connery wasn't such a bad guy and the earth NC weren't at odds with him. Hell, they funded his voyage). Whatever funding the NC provided that went through the wormhole (and wasn't in the form of laborers and mercenaries) would have been under the control of Connery and eventually the TR after he died. This would explain why the TR are so well outfitted.

What I DO know is that NC equipment isn't sleek, expensive weapons and armor. It's rough and makeshift, but well-maintained and effective. Look at the screenshots, the MAX looks like some kind of mechanical loader with guns and armor welded to it, the NC armor is battered and scarred and the guns look like they were designed and made with whatever could be scrounged or taken from TR. It's the same with the vehicles; all the ES stuff looks sort of makeshift. In my mind, if they had corporate backing, they wouldn't have to keep armoring their vehicles with scrap and coming up with experimental weaponry to keep in fighting shape. So, if there are still any corporate presence on Auraxis that is backing the NC, it's not with any tangible resource.

Besides that, I don't think the official lore has gotten to auraxis yet. They're still on the ships en route to it....aren't they?

[Malorn]

Before anyone goes there, yes, the NC are traitors too, but I'd say the former spirit of the Republic lies more with them than it does the current TR. Part of the reason Connery was killed was because he sympathized and didn't want to crack down too harshly on his citizens.

To put it simply, the Republic no longer exists on Auraxis. All of the factions are traitors to the Republic, the question is which is working towards the best goals for those who remain. I think an argument in that regard can be made for either the NC or the VS, but not the TR with their current leadership. When a faction is willing to kill its own President and loyal citizens for power and authority it quite clearly stops being the one working towards their best interests.

1) you are assuming the holovid was legit

2) you are assuming TR still have the same leadership. Discovery-7 blew up before they even found auraxis, let alone colonized it and developed rebirthing. Leadership could be very different now.

3) we dont know what happened afterward.

4) one leader makes a difference - connery was a good man, his replacement may not have been, current leadership is unknown. Could be Nixon, could be Reagan.

Need more backstory.

[Ratstomper]

Need more backstory.

Something I think we can ALL agree on. :)

[Shiftfaced]

The leadership may be self-serving and treasonous, but it's still superior to laissez-faire self-interest and pseudo-scientific religious zealotry.

Legitimacy is derived from being able to achieve the goal of conquering the challenges ahead. From nothing else.
NC and VS are inherently denied this ability.

We don't look at vanu as a god. We just know that vanu was an alien race that did exist as well as having superior technology to our own. I find it shocking that the tr are not more on board with tech due to the super soldier possibilities.

[Kriegson]

What I DO know is that NC equipment isn't sleek, expensive weapons and armor. It's rough and makeshift, but well-maintained and effective. Look at the screenshots, the MAX looks like some kind of mechanical loader with guns and armor welded to it, the NC armor is battered and scarred and the guns look like they were designed and made with whatever could be scrounged or taken from TR. It's the same with the vehicles; all the ES stuff looks sort of makeshift. In my mind, if they had corporate backing, they wouldn't have to keep armoring their vehicles with scrap and coming up with experimental weaponry to keep in fighting shape. So, if there are still any corporate presence on Auraxis that is backing the NC, it's not with any tangible resource.

Besides that, I don't think the official lore has gotten to auraxis yet. They're still on the ships en route to it....aren't they?

In regards to their guns, these weapons represent some of the contradictions within the group. I'm fairly sure the weapons (And ammunition) that they use for the most part (gauss weapons) are prototypes. That is to say experimental weapons created with the most recent technology, but not completed enough to make it to production lines for whatever reason.
Like our own conundrum with the M-4 carbine, I imagine alternatives are too expensive and not improved enough to justify replacing.

Though with auraxium and the nanite construction system, costs, delicate construction or rare resources are no longer a concern. They can endlessly churn out copies of weapons of which only a handful actually exist.
Gauss weapons are likely the pinnacle of human firearms, while Vanu tech is more advanced, albeit inhuman technology.


As for the timeline...I don't think they have anything regarding them making planetfall just yet.

@DjEclipse
The TR instituted martial law shortly after their crisis began when a ship was attacked and held hostage by a number of rebels whom of which died in the fighting. A vote was held to determine the degree of security which would be installed.

Ironically, it could have been agents of the TR themselves who instigated or produced the attack in order to kill a commander who would have been against their future efforts and to tighten their grip on the populace with the good old "Barbarians at the gates" tactic.
None of the terrorists survived, as their target was a military ship and the mission in itself was largely suicide.

[LostAlgorithm]

1) you are assuming the holovid was legit

2) you are assuming TR still have the same leadership. Discovery-7 blew up before they even found auraxis, let alone colonized it and developed rebirthing. Leadership could be very different now.

3) we dont know what happened afterward.

4) one leader makes a difference - connery was a good man, his replacement may not have been, current leadership is unknown. Could be Nixon, could be Reagan.

Need more backstory.

Yes, of course it's only based on what we know now, though I don't think I was arguing otherwise.

Leadership could be different now, but we've seen nothing to show it is yet, so until we do the point stands.

[ArbitraryDemise]

The corporations are where they always are, safe on Earth.

Those on Auraxis, are stranded laborers of the corporation who revolted against the TR authority, who likely instituted martial law while they waited for a rescue from Earth.

Uh... no.

The logs by the NC corporate CEO's state that those CEO's would be joining the expedition.

[Ratstomper]

In regards to their guns, these weapons represent some of the contradictions within the group. I'm fairly sure the weapons (And ammunition) that they use for the most part (gauss weapons) are prototypes. That is to say experimental weapons created with the most recent technology, but not completed enough to make it to production lines for whatever reason.
Like our own conundrum with the M-4 carbine, I imagine alternatives are too expensive and not improved enough to justify replacing.

Though with auraxium and the nanite construction system, costs, delicate construction or rare resources are no longer a concern. They can endlessly churn out copies of weapons of which only a handful actually exist.
Gauss weapons are likely the pinnacle of human firearms, while Vanu tech is more advanced, albeit inhuman technology.


As for the timeline...I don't think they have anything regarding them making planetfall just yet.

That seems like a fair point. My thought was that civilian engineers were coming up with magnetic-powered weapons (the gauss) and super shotguns (jackhammers, although I hear its no longer a shotgun) and then redistributing them via nanites. Although, your point makes a lot of sense. I'm curious to see the rest of the backstory.

I'm also curious how much money would really play a part in a expedition that was cut of from earths economy and broken into three pieces to have war with each other. You'd think by that point earth money would not have much value.

[Kriegson]

I'm also curious how much money would really play a part in a expedition that was cut of from earths economy and broken into three pieces to have war with each other. You'd think by that point earth money would not have much value.

The way I see it, cost was probably an issue in producing the prototype weapons and thus why they never made it to mass production and thus into the hands of the terran republic. The TR likely controls any and all signifigant amount of military grade arms on the planet...though the mercenaries funded by the new conglomerate may have been another matter entirely.

The mercs were probably the best money could buy, outfitted with the latest technologies developed by companies within the new conglomerate (in secret) thus the weapons and devices were few in number and unheard of by the TR.
With the advent of auraxium and nanite systems, weapons that had never been able to be produced in large numbers do to prohibitive costs and the need for secrecy could be replicated indefinently.

Unless I misunderstood your post :P

[Ratstomper]

The way I see it, cost was probably an issue in producing the prototype weapons and thus why they never made it to mass production and thus into the hands of the terran republic. The TR likely controls any and all signifigant amount of military grade arms on the planet...though the mercenaries funded by the new conglomerate may have been another matter entirely.

The mercs were probably the best money could buy, outfitted with the latest technologies developed by companies within the new conglomerate (in secret) thus the weapons and devices were few in number and unheard of by the TR.
With the advent of auraxium and nanite systems, weapons that had never been able to be produced in large numbers do to prohibitive costs and the need for secrecy could be replicated indefinently.

Unless I misunderstood your post :P

Nope that makes total sense and would explain corporate backing: civilian-soldiers using arms company designed experimental weaponry. Seems very very plausible.

[cBselfmonkey]

Does that shit ever happen, CEOs going on expeditions, thats what paid lackeys are for.

Pretty sure one of the background logs mention that it was mainly Vice presidents or people on the Board's of Directors for the various corporations that ended up being sent on the fleet. After all they'd want good, capable people there...but not too good. ;)

[Red Beard]

Yes. The Vanu believe neither the TR or NC offer a solution to humanity's woes because humanity is fundamentally flawed. At best it would be like in many Islamic countries where you and your family would be disadvantaged unless you converted to Islam. The "middle" result of a vanu victory would be the previous result with the added bonus of any children you have would be genetically altered before birth to suit the VS view of the perfect human and educated in overwhelmingly pro vanu schools. At worst they'll force it upon you and the behavior modification means you won't even care by the end.

The NC will take away your Security
The TR will take away your Freedom
The VS will take away your Humanity.

This is both highly accurate...and pessimistic! :lol:

[Malorn]

The NC will take away your Security
The TR will take away your Freedom
The VS will take away your Humanity.

If those are the options then the TR is clearly the lesser of three evils. They keep you safe and retain your soul. Freedom is over-rated.

[Red Beard]

Originally Posted by Retaliation
The NCw will take away your Security
The TRw will take away your Freedom
The VSw will take away your Humanity.

If those are the options then the TRw is clearly the lesser of three evils. They keep you safe and retain your soul. Freedom is over-rated.


Freedom + Humanity - Security = Free man living dangerously
Security + Humanity - Freedom = Slave living safely
Security + Freedom - Humanity = No longer with us :lol:

[Shiftfaced]

If those are the options then the TR is clearly the lesser of three evils. They keep you safe and retain your soul. Freedom is over-rated.

Of course it is, coming from a tr supporter as yourself. You have been rationalizing any negative thing the tr has done. Even the treason your leaders committed. Just because you have cybernetics installed does not take away that you are human. It is enhancing an already amazing thing. The body does amazing things. We just want to make it even better.

[Red Beard]

Of course it is, coming from a tr supporter as yourself. You have been rationalizing any negative thing the tr has done. Even the treason your leaders committed. Just because you have cybernetics installed does not take away that you are human. It is enhancing an already amazing thing. The body does amazing things. We just want to make it even better.

-The Borg's new PR rep :rofl:

[Shiftfaced]

-The Borg's new PR rep :rofl:

✌

[Retaliation]

This is both highly accurate...and pessimistic! :lol:

The best part is I joined NC because I view pessimism as pointless and self defeating.

If those are the options then the TR is clearly the lesser of three evils. They keep you safe and retain your soul. Freedom is over-rated.

The thing is, how do you keep creating new ideas and technology without an ability to freely create them? Throughout our collective history we've pretty much proven that when it comes to advancing ourselves states are horrible. At best they can assist and direct, at worst they can completely shut it down. As the TR seeks to preserve, any kind of change is ultimately a threat to it's existence so it will seek the latter. The TR of today is going to be the TR a century from now. They will have killed the very idea that the future can be better.

It's funny how this is reflected in game. TR is using what is by then ancient technology and sees no reason to change. The NC is willing to use much more advanced technology and only advances slower than the VS because they still have to stop corruption and ensure people follow the law. The VS get to go crazy with tech because they don't even need a government they're just programmed to know what's wrong.

[Virulence]

The backbone of the NC rank-and-file consists first and foremost of laborers; organized unions that got sick of the Republic's shit. We were offered the opportunity to stand on our own against the TR, and took it. We don't give a damn about the corporations' overarching agenda. We just don't want to be used and abused by the Republic anymore.

So, who are we, really? We've got the unions - men and women hardened by long hours of hard labor with heavy equipment. We've got some ex-Republic military, too, who had the same idea we did. Yeah, we've got mercs, too - but they're stuck on this rock all the same as we are. They've been with us long enough to know they'd rather stand with us than fight against us.

We've got ingenuity and we've got muscle. The majority of our equipment is re-purposed stuff. We just grabbed the biggest guns we could find and hammered 'em on. We've got some fancy high-tech solutions of our own, too. Stuff that's supposed to punch a hole clear through a mountain. I wonder what that'll do to a Prowler.

All we know is that we've got the opportunity to get out from beneath the TR's oppressive thumb. I have no doubt that our victory on Auraxis will get us the peace and freedom we want, but should those same corporations that backed us try to drop that hammer on us again, we'll smash them just like we smashed the Republic.

As for the Vanu? They want to unite everyone under their cult freak alien banner - yeah, great. Imperial oppression, cult oppression - there's no difference there. We've got no choice but to stand against them, too.

We've got our freedom at stake with nothing to lose - the tyrants we stand against are going to get slammed down, and so will you if you're not with us!

[Shiftfaced]

The backbone of the NC rank-and-file consists first and foremost of laborers; organized unions that got sick of the Republic's shit. We were offered the opportunity to stand on our own against the TR, and took it. We don't give a damn about the corporations' overarching agenda. We just don't want to be used and abused by the Republic anymore.

So, who are we, really? We've got the unions - men and women hardened by long hours of hard labor with heavy equipment. We've got some ex-Republic military, too, who had the same idea we did. Yeah, we've got mercs, too - but they're stuck on this rock all the same as we are. They've been with us long enough to know they'd rather stand with us than fight against us.

We've got ingenuity and we've got muscle. The majority of our equipment is re-purposed stuff. We just grabbed the biggest guns we could find and hammered 'em on. We've got some fancy high-tech solutions of our own, too. Stuff that's supposed to punch a hole clear through a mountain. I wonder what that'll do to a Prowler.

All we know is that we've got the opportunity to get out from beneath the TR's oppressive thumb. I have no doubt that our victory on Auraxis will get us the peace and freedom we want, but should those same corporations that backed us try to drop that hammer on us again, we'll smash them just like we smashed the Republic.

As for the Vanu? They want to unite everyone under their cult freak alien banner - yeah, great. Imperial oppression, cult oppression - there's no difference there. We've got no choice but to stand against them, too.

We've got our freedom at stake with nothing to lose - the tyrants we stand against are going to get slammed down, and so will you if you're not with us!

Mercenaries go where the money is. The corporations can easily quit backing you and the mercs can jump ship easily. Your resources will dissipate and you will be running wild with pitch forks as the corporations new army takes each of you out.

[Zolan]

Inb4 everyone starts referring to the New Conglomerate CR5's as Mad Men

http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/hammervision/assets_c/2010/07/00033214-thumb-550x273-190588.jpg

[Vexus]

I like how the storylines paint all 3 factions as the bad guys, but leave just enough grey area there to rationalize that whichever faction you choose might be the good guys. That's cool.

Whether the evil that must be defended against is the breaking down of society into utter anarchy, the oppression of a fascist big brother government, or simply man's fear of evolving into something better; each faction is fighting their war to save humanity and make the world a better place. Blah blah blah ... eat a grenade.

[Vorgan]

I like how the storylines paint all 3 factions as the bad guys, but leave just enough grey area there to rationalize that whichever faction you choose might be the good guys. That's cool.

Whether the evil that must be defended against is the breaking down of society into utter anarchy, the oppression of a fascist big brother government, or simply man's fear of evolving into something better; each faction is fighting their war to save humanity and make the world a better place. Blah blah blah ... eat a grenade.

I don't really think the storylines paint them as bad guys. Seems like each side is presented fairly with both the pros and cons of pretty practical ideologies. The TR brought humanity peace, the NC fight for civil and economic liberty, and the VS want humanity to be the best it can be.

There are downsides, of course, but what ideology is perfect? They're all human (even the VS, for now), and they're all flawed. Despite that, they all have pretty noble goals (peace, freedom, progress). What we identify with and what we disapprove of just reflects on our individual world views.

That, or me joining the NC is a testament to how much I love blowing shit up from on high in a Reaver. All depends on perspective :P

[RawketLawnchair]

Inb4 everyone starts referring to the New Conglomerate CR5's as Mad Men

http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/hammervision/assets_c/2010/07/00033214-thumb-550x273-190588.jpg

Not quite. :mad:

[Virulence]

Mercenaries go where the money is. The corporations can easily quit backing you and the mercs can jump ship easily. Your resources will dissipate and you will be running wild with pitch forks as the corporations new army takes each of you out.

Oh, please. Without our brain and muscle, not a single wheel can turn.

[Vexus]

I don't really think the storylines paint them as bad guys. Seems like each side is presented fairly with both the pros and cons of pretty practical ideologies. The TR brought humanity peace, the NC fight for civil and economic liberty, and the VS want humanity to be the best it can be.

There are downsides, of course, but what ideology is perfect? They're all human (even the VS, for now), and they're all flawed. Despite that, they all have pretty noble goals (peace, freedom, progress). What we identify with and what we disapprove of just reflects on our individual world views.

That, or me joining the NC is a testament to how much I love blowing shit up from on high in a Reaver. All depends on perspective :P

Reading the storylines they all sounded like bad guys to me, so maybe I should have said it that way. :) I tend to play the bad guy faction, so perhaps I just want to see them all as bad guys, heh.

We can definitely agree that blowing stuff up from an aircraft is gonna be a hell of a lot of fun. It's the air element that has me most excited about Planetside 2.