What I want to know about Stealthing

[Moleculor]

Here's the only thing I'm really -dying- to know about this game, and it will be the absolute deciding factor in whether or not I play it...

Stealth suit 'shimmer'. What is it? Is it a semi-transparent texture applied to the player model (ala Tribes 2), resulting in what looks to be a floating, running, very obvious cloud, or will it be more of a 'heat-wave' effect, where the background image behind the stealther seems to 'stretch' in the direction the stealther is moving?

I -hated- the stealth effect in Tribes 2. And I'm hoping for the heat-wave-esque one here.

[Fire_Monkey]

I've heard that the field generated around you begins to turn whitish. and whiter until you are completly visible. I've seen the cloaking field of the AMS, it doesn't look very beautiful, but decent. The field also begins to get bubbly looking things in it.

[Moleculor]

....

I've seen (I think... it's that dome thing, right?) the cloaking field for the AMS as well, and I was hoping that was just a placeholder, as it's very -very- obvious, and looks JUST LIKE it was from Tribes 2.

[Fire_Monkey]

I believe that was when the AMS was under attack, when it isn't the field should look less visible. Plus that shot was pretty close. When your farther away it should be even less visible.

[tmax]

if its obvious like tribes 2 the game will be ruined for me

[FraBaktos]

yeah that shot was taken from like 3 feet away from its cloaking sphere. From a bit more distance, it would be very less noticable. I doubt they will screw up the cloaking, they know what they are doing.

[MooKoo]

well we hope

[Irnbru]

the fileplanet movie shows an infiltrator... kinda hard to explain, but he's pretty damn invisible stationary about 1 ft in front of the guy makin the video

[�io]

Infiltration suit = very very very non visible if standing still, in movement i'm not sure.

That being said if how the infiltration suit works is a deciding factor if you will play or not than i'd suggest looking for another game.

[Fire_Monkey]

Dio = 1

Moleculor = 0


:)

[�io]

Yay me!

:clap:

[Moleculor]

Um, Dio? I want to be a stealther. So the stealth in the game matters to me. I KNOW that when you're stationary, you're invisible. I asked about -shimmer- which is ONLY present when you're NOT invisible.

Have you ever seen a cloaked guy fire while moving in Tribes 2? It looks -ugly- and -damn- obvious. They might as well drop the cloak completely.

Sure, if I'm moving and firing while cloaked, I'd better be semi-obvious too in PS, but JUST moving, I shouldn't be as obvious as Tribes 2's 'shimmer'.

As for me looking for another game, there -are- no other games. It's this or nothing. And I -will- pick nothing if I can't be a stealther, because I don't want to be some ugly grunt who's only answer to anything is "More Bullets".

[1024]

Hey man, no need to get harsh here. Grunts do their part in an empire too, and if it weren't for grunts, where woudl the bulk of your force be???

:cool2:

[RageMaster]

As for me looking for another game, there -are- no other games. It's this or nothing. And I -will- pick nothing if I can't be a stealther, because I don't want to be some ugly grunt who's only answer to anything is "More Bullets".

Take whatever stealth armour they give you and adapt your gameplay, n00bl3tt. Or dont play PlanetSide.

I will be Infil, and regardless of what the Infiltrator Suit grants me with regards to invisibility, I intend to explore the possibilities it brings me fully. Ill take its strengths and weaknesses and use the perks appropriately regardless of whether its a heat wave, or alphatexture, or whatever. Its not a consideration ATM.

What I won't do is jump on these boards saying how I wont play the game unless the infil suit invis ability is exactly to my liking. I think thats being a little pedantic, especially when you say you'd forsake buying and paying for a game thats FULL of other features other than stealth. I think its absurd personally.

[Moleculor]

Well if the stealth suit doesn't stealth, the game won't be fun for me, and I won't pay money to play an unfun game. That's why I say I won't play it if the stealth suit is too obvious.

[Jaged]

Unfun isn't a word.

The stealth suit will cloak either way. I am sure that if you move slow enough than it will be almost impossible to see you. I personally think a stealth suit should be obvious when it shoots. The main point of a stealth suit is to get behind enemy lines unnoticed. It would be so annoying to be shot at repeatedly from something you can't even see. If the stealth suit isn't exactly to your liking, than do something else. Don't pass up a great game like Planetside just because you don't like the stealth affect.

[Lexington_Steele]

Originally posted by Moleculor
Have you ever seen a cloaked guy fire while moving in Tribes 2? It looks -ugly- and -damn- obvious. They might as well drop the cloak completely.

Sure, if I'm moving and firing while cloaked, I'd better be semi-obvious too in PS, but JUST moving, I shouldn't be as obvious as Tribes 2's 'shimmer'.

Moleculor, When you fire your weapon, your infultrations suit will become completely visable for a moment. So for all intents and purposes, when you fire your weapon, the cloak drops.

As for the effects while moving, you will have to either wait to get into beta, talk to someone that is in beta, wait to see see a movie of a IS in action.

I hope this is helpful information for you. :)

[Maus]

Actually, the cloak in T2 is fairly good, unless u got a shit graphics card and some bollocks corruption on the texturing. Moving as a cloaker is no different to standing still, u are slightly visible, but the most obvious elements are the excessive noise of the suit, and the fact that the dirt trails kicked up as stealths run accross the ground is ridiculously obvious.

In PS, we aint so sure bout stealthers, as the fileplanet vid is the first footage we have seen of stealthers in action. However, by looking at the vid, the character is initially quite bright qhite, before turning virtually totally invisible. Therefore, maybe the whiteness is like level 5 cloak or something, the most extreme result you can get whilst cloaked. Im guessing itll be a more obvious outline, but nowhere near as bright.

[Irnbru]

that's hilarious, sounds like someone sux at FPSs and is looking for an easy way out of getting shot to shit.

just my opinion.

[Incompetent]

As for me looking for another game, there -are- no other games. It's this or nothing. And I -will- pick nothing if I can't be a stealther, because I don't want to be some ugly grunt who's only answer to anything is "More Bullets". I would suggest you start hoping another game is announced soon, because unless you like to die or like to scout, you might as well forget the stealth. It is going to play an extremly limited role in this game. You basically have a few choices, you can knife someone, then his squad will beat the snot out of you, you can attempt to sneak into the enemies base and blow the gens and hack the control panel, if you manage, make sure you pick an ice cold beer once you get to hell, because your gonna get owned within seconds. Or you could stand around and watch the enemy and tell the friendlies where the hostiles are going, until one of the sentries flicks on his darklight and sweeps the area. Or you could be thinking "ooh ooh, i wanna be a stealth medic," well let me let you in on a little secret, just cause your invisible doesn't make you bullet proof, and their will be a helluva lot of ordinance flying around in any decent sized battle.

edit:if you haven't noticed, i really really hate stealths, so just go ahead and ignore me if you want, i'm sure there will be a few really good stealthers, maybe you'll be one of them, i just had to say something to the 50+% of the community that thinks they are gonna be some sort of uber l337 stealth and/or sniper. I've just been holding this in so long it was starting to hurt.

[Kalam]

In the new Video there are two scenes showing a stealther.
I would say it looks pretty similar to the Predator, even if moving you could barely spot it. But therefor we got the Dark Light Vision.
Also you could see the Infi killing a Light with only two strikes. Pretty dangerous I would say.

[Scarab]

Yeah this won't be like dark age of camelot where you can just get l33t items and buffs and own people from a stealthed position where noone can see you even when you're moving. Stealthers ruin games if done incorrectly or overpowering. Noone wants to constantly get owned by people that they can't even see...people want an opportunity to defend themselves. Otherwise it's no fun unless you're one of the stealthers, and eventually the entire game is full of stealthers (just like DAoC is becoming) because it's the only way people can have fun in PvP.

[Ouroboros]

Incomp, damn you... don't diss the medic. :mad: :flamemad: :furious: :P~

[Hellsfire123]

Im with incompetwnt. The sheer amount of pilots, snipers and infils in this game will be scary in the first weeks. And mole, if all you wanna be is a stealther, and nothing else, play AvP2. If the stealth isnt to your liking, dont play or adapt. Now no more whining.

PS- he wasnt insulting medics, he said snipers and infils.

[Mauser101]

Keep in mind that for the first few weeks people's battle rank will not be high enough to do all the things they want to do. You probably won't see a Galaxy Flyin, Phenix firing, Infitrator wearing, advanced Hacking skilled player for a while.

Actually, you won't see the pheonix part of it. Remeber that those Infil suit guys will only have 2 pistols and a knife. One of their pistols will undoubtedly be a hacking tool. The Devs are doing good job of pre-nerfing the stealthers and making them a very specialized unit that will not survive in open combat.

[quiet]

I think it is just 1 pistol and a 6 x 6 inventory (and the knife).

[Hellsfire123]

Mauser, closed beta has been out for 3 weeks, and they only play 2-5 hours a week. But we still have infils, maxes, pilots, and anti-vech screenshots. I dont doubt ill be able to get a ride in a galaxy within 24hrs of installing the game.

[Moleculor]

Moleculor, When you fire your weapon, your infultrations suit will become completely visable for a moment. So for all intents and purposes, when you fire your weapon, the cloak drops.

As for the effects while moving, you will have to either wait to get into beta, talk to someone that is in beta, wait to see see a movie of a IS in action.

I hope this is helpful information for you.

You know you just repeated what I said, right?

I would suggest you start hoping another game is announced soon, because unless you like to die or like to scout, you might as well forget the stealth. It is going to play an extremly limited role in this game. You basically have a few choices, you can knife someone, then his squad will beat the snot out of you, you can attempt to sneak into the enemies base and blow the gens and hack the control panel, if you manage, make sure you pick an ice cold beer once you get to hell, because your gonna get owned within seconds. Or you could stand around and watch the enemy and tell the friendlies where the hostiles are going, until one of the sentries flicks on his darklight and sweeps the area. Or you could be thinking "ooh ooh, i wanna be a stealth medic," well let me let you in on a little secret, just cause your invisible doesn't make you bullet proof, and their will be a helluva lot of ordinance flying around in any decent sized battle.

Psh. Or you sneak in, hack a locker, grab an AI MAX, and waste people. Or get a squad of stealthers, have 'em all set up explosives on the turrets (and the power generators) and have a well timed destruction of the bases defenses moments before the airdrop of 10-20 MAXes hit the ground.

In the new Video there are two scenes showing a stealther.
I would say it looks pretty similar to the Predator, even if moving you could barely spot it.

Now THAT sounds encouraging.

And mole, if all you wanna be is a stealther, and nothing else, play AvP2. If the stealth isnt to your liking, dont play or adapt. Now no more whining.

Psh. I ain't playing this game because it's an MMOG or Verant made it (Hell, I'm contemplating playing it in SPITE of the fact that it's coming from the same people who made EverSuck) or that it's the next best FPS. I'm hoping to play it because it has a -chance- at having a half-decent strategic element incorporating an ACTUAL cloak, as opposed to the Tribes 2 version which lasts for 5 seconds and usually doesn't work anyway. About the only other thing in this game that even interests me PARTIALLY is piloting, and that's not going to be enough to keep me interested.

Keep in mind that for the first few weeks people's battle rank will not be high enough to do all the things they want to do. You probably won't see a Galaxy Flyin, Phenix firing, Infitrator wearing, advanced Hacking skilled player for a while.

Um... Well... Honestly I have to disagree. I already have my initial certs planned out, and as no basic cert is going to cost more than 2 points, and we get at LEAST five and possibly six after VR training, I'll have cloak, hacking, and Wraith as my first selections. And with my next level I'll probably get Engineering, or a MAX, so I can go up in rank even faster.

[Seer]

Well, if the stealth suit is barely visible when moving, maybe you shouldn't move when people are looking at you. That would be stealthy. In any case, think of it this way--we've heard the stealth suit described by betatesters as a popular armor, but in the preview movies, how many enemy stealthers did you see? Now, I wasn't looking too closely, but I didn't see a single one.

If the stealth suit is invisible when you are still and mostly invisible when you are moving, you should adapt your playstyle to that dynamic and not expect the game to adapt to yours.

[Mauser101]

Originally posted by Moleculor
Or get a squad of stealthers, have 'em all set up explosives on the turrets (and the power generators) and have a well timed destruction of the bases defenses moments before the airdrop of 10-20 MAXes hit the ground.


Moleculor: If that's what you're planning on doing, I say mad props to you and the Outfit you'll inevitably have to set up. This will take a lot of planning and a lot of skill. The stealth guys will have to be very effective for a squad of them not to be noticed in a base. The Galaxy pilot (or pilots) is gonna have to be pretty good to get the Maxs to hit inside the base(kindof like flying a bomber in Tribes 2, but alone, without a bombing rectile...sp?). That Maxs will just have to do what I'm sure Maxs will be very good at, causing a rucuss.

That'd be on of the only real spec ops/covert ops units in the game, as opposed to the wanabee that keep recruiting.

Good luck with it.

[Moleculor]

If the stealth suit is invisible when you are still and mostly invisible when you are moving, you should adapt your playstyle to that dynamic and not expect the game to adapt to yours.

Well as long as it's MOSTLY invisible, I'll be fuxx0ring happy! What I'm saying is is that the only example of 'shimmer' in the screenshots I've seen (I still haven't seen any movie with stealthers in it) is an ugly Tribes 2-esque cloud texture on domes 'n such. And that's not MOSTLY invisible, that's glaringly obvious.

The Galaxy pilot (or pilots) is gonna have to be pretty good to get the Maxs to hit inside the base(kindof like flying a bomber in Tribes 2, but alone, without a bombing rectile...sp?).

Actually, I'm betting it's easier than it seems, as one of the reviews I've read very specifically mentioned a MAX drop to the courtyard of a base. But yeah, 'twould be awsome.

[Seer]

No extra effects, like shimmer, are applied to the models when moving. The cloaking effect is different for stealth suits than AMS.

As far as ten maxes--you'd need five galaxies for that. Why not just have a couple maxes and a bunch of RA?

[Prefect]

Originally posted by Hellsfire123
Mauser, closed beta has been out for 3 weeks, and they only play 2-5 hours a week. But we still have infils, maxes, pilots, and anti-vech screenshots. I dont doubt ill be able to get a ride in a galaxy within 24hrs of installing the game.

But for the press accounts at least, it sounds like they are starting out at BR10 instead of BR1. Thats probably a decent ammount of leveling they are skipping over.

[Agent]

I already have my initial certs planned out, and as no basic cert is going to cost more than 2 points, and we get at LEAST five and possibly six after VR training

My god how are you going to get 6 points in VR training? Where has that been said? I thought you get BEP for playing the actual game. If you get BEP for just training what would earning certs matter? Everyone would just be maxed out on certs before they even start the actual game.

[NeoTassadar]

That's not even close to maxed, it's just enough to let people go into combat being able to do what they planned to do.

[Incompetent]

Psh. Or you sneak in, hack a locker, grab an AI MAX, and waste people. Or get a squad of stealthers, have 'em all set up explosives on the turrets (and the power generators) and have a well timed destruction of the bases defenses moments before the airdrop of 10-20 MAXes hit the ground. won't work, first off, you can;t get an AI MAX out of a locker, you have to get it out of an invo station, invo stations=high traffic=lots of them, so the second you hack an invo, you just got an entire room shooting at you, not to mention you have to become visible to hack. You could have a bunch of guys runnin around putting down aces to blow shit up, but then, at least one is gonna fuck up, get spotted, or they're gonna spot the ace on the ground, and everyones gonna send out the signal to turn on your stealth detection gear, which about 6 out of ten people will have. but before you can do any of this, you have to make it in the damn door, guarded by our bestest friends motion detectors and spitfires, and the occasional wad of players moving out

Also, you only get ONE pistol, so if you bring a REK, the only thing you can defend youself with is a knife and knife v anything with bullets and a clue=owned

and jumping out of Galaxies is gonna get you owned, since you'll light up like a christmas tree on the way down, and get owned by Spitfires. Oh, and unless you put around 5-10 Galaxies into the air, you can't drop 10-20 MAXes, and as i've established in other threads Galaxy=Biggest fucking bullet magnet of all time.

oh, and the second you step inside, i have a perfect, impossible to miss shot if i even think i see a flicker. I can just spray a corridor, and since you decloak when hit, then i can spray YOU, even without detection gear.

look, the way i see it, cloaking is always too powerful, or too weak, its never balanced and i'm glad they decided to nerf it before it drove everyone insane.

[Moleculor]

As far as ten maxes--you'd need five galaxies for that. Why not just have a couple maxes and a bunch of RA?

So? So I have 5 Galaxy's, MAXes, and support personel.

And I distinctly remember reading that someone dropped 10 MAXes into a base in one of these recent reviews, so it can't be -that- impossible.

won't work, first off, you can;t get an AI MAX out of a locker, you have to get it out of an invo station, invo stations=high traffic=lots of them, so the second you hack an invo, you just got an entire room shooting at you, not to mention you have to become visible to hack. You could have a bunch of guys runnin around putting down aces to blow shit up, but then, at least one is gonna fuck up, get spotted, or they're gonna spot the ace on the ground, and everyones gonna send out the signal to turn on your stealth detection gear, which about 6 out of ten people will have. but before you can do any of this, you have to make it in the damn door, guarded by our bestest friends motion detectors and spitfires, and the occasional wad of players moving out

It's really amusing how deluded and hostile you are about cloakers. :D

But anywho... Since when do AI MAXes not come from lockers? From what I remember, you can put anything you want into a locker, and if you hack a locker, you can get your own stuff out. So... Put MAX in locker, go infiltrate base, hack locker, get MAX. Simple. And... A) There are a LOT of lockers. B) The bases are MASSIVE, and unless you people are just sitting on your hands most of the time, you won't be in it THAT much and C) There will always be some remote part of the base that doesn't get much traffic. You do know there are at least two entrances to most bases, one of which is usually outside of the base walls, right? There's bound to be a locker and/or console near that entrance.

and jumping out of Galaxies is gonna get you owned, since you'll light up like a christmas tree on the way down, and get owned by Spitfires. Oh, and unless you put around 5-10 Galaxies into the air, you can't drop 10-20 MAXes, and as i've established in other threads Galaxy=Biggest fucking bullet magnet of all time.

Right. So the wing of mosquitos running interference, or the buddies that just happen to be driving the tanks to your front gate aren't an annoyance? And remember, the MAXes can shoot back, even while in air. Oh, and don't forget the cloud cover. Taking a base would be a major effort, and it won't be JUST stealthers and MAXes. Vehicles are necessary as well.

oh, and the second you step inside, i have a perfect, impossible to miss shot if i even think i see a flicker. I can just spray a corridor, and since you decloak when hit, then i can spray YOU, even without detection gear.

That's if you're even nearby. Remember, I can have implants too, like the enhanced hearing one, which would allow me to 'see' around corners 'n such, allowing me to time my entrances to when you aren't around, or aren't looking.. Also, there's the alternate entrance problem, and the fact that I really don't CARE if I only have a knife, as I'm not looking to kill people except in desperate situations.

look, the way i see it, cloaking is always too powerful, or too weak, its never balanced and i'm glad they decided to nerf it before it drove everyone insane.

..... When did they nerf it? Funny, I don't remember hearing anything about them nerfing it recently...

[Sputty]

Incompetent's right. The stealth is a recon tool only and air drops and vehicles will make it easy to see. I see the stealth being important before that batte but everyone else will be actually fighting to do things. The stealth will never be a combat troops and if someone tries that they'll get owned quickly.

[Incompetent]

I distincly read a review that siad a stealth could hold a rifle, so don't believe everything you readBut anywho... Since when do AI MAXes not come from lockers? From what I remember, you can put anything you want into a locker, and if you hack a locker, you can get your own stuff out. So... Put MAX in locker, go infiltrate base, hack locker, get MAX. Simple. And... A) There are a LOT of lockers. B) The bases are MASSIVE, and unless you people are just sitting on your hands most of the time, you won't be in it THAT much and C) There will always be some remote part of the base that doesn't get much traffic. You do know there are at least two entrances to most bases, one of which is usually outside of the base walls, right? There's bound to be a locker and/or console near that entrance. BECAUSE MAXES ARE ARMOR, and only guns come from lockers, and only ones you put in their at that, lets not taunt before we get the basics of gameply down, k. And people, you know, like to guard things, and they get eight Spitfires so thats all the doors closed up, and if your bringing friends, thats even worse then you, because you just made everyone in the base jumpy as hell and willing to shoot at the slightest sound, none the matter that while your jumping out of Galaxies i have minefields, strategically placed boomers.

Right. So the wing of mosquitos running interference, or the buddies that just happen to be driving the tanks to your front gate aren't an annoyance? And remember, the MAXes can shoot back, even while in air. Oh, and don't forget the cloud cover. Taking a base would be a major effort, and it won't be JUST stealthers and MAXes. Vehicles are necessary as well. Great, skeeters im ignoring while im bunkering Inside waiting for reinforcements to arrive, and how well can you shoot falling a couple hundred feet per second. Your also not gonna get into the clouds because you can't go that high, and even if you can your combat innefective, and your vehicles run into, dun dun dun, MY MINES, not to mention massive quantities of Decimater fire, and we can spray all we want, cause ammo isn't that much of an issue. (vehicles eat up NTU's, not guns and bullets.)

That's if you're even nearby. Remember, I can have implants too, like the enhanced hearing one, which would allow me to 'see' around corners 'n such, allowing me to time my entrances to when you aren't around, or aren't looking.. Also, there's the alternate entrance problem, and the fact that I really don't CARE if I only have a knife, as I'm not looking to kill people except in desperate situations. Great, so you can see us, your the one being stalked, all that means is that you know death is coming, oh, and ITS A FUCKING SIEGE, were at every damn door, its our base, were gonna have a general idea what it looks like.

Your basically walking into a hail of automatic gunfire just trying to make it in a door, you hav ZERO armor, one good burst and your DEAD, you could do six times as much good as a "some ugly grunt who's only answer to anything is 'More Bullets'." Because you'll just be a footnote, "so and so got owned after walking into a room vital to the defense that he assumed would be empty in a siege"

[Ouroboros]

And yeah, you can just go and, uh, get shot :D

No matter what you say Incomp, I want to try a scouter. :(

[Incompetent]

hehe, scouts are the only thing they are gonna be good at, but most cloakers aren't "lets patiently stalk them and call in an airstrike on their heads" type of people, and thats what stealths are good at. Yhey're "hehe, im invisible, im gonna own the whole damn world" people, sorta like snipers, but snipers are actually something someone might have to worry about.

[Ouroboros]

Ah come on Incomp, a cloaker could take out 1 or two guys before he gets owned if no one in the enemy group has darklight or is scanning. It's not like the knife if completely useless. Kill the guy with the Lasher and you just made your team's world a lot safer. :love:

[Incompetent]

He can take out ONE, then everyone is gonna know where he is because you become visible when you attack, and everytime someone clips him he becomes visible, and every time he takes damage he becomes permanantly more visible, and if the squad is smart enough to shoot the enemy, he will be dead before he can tell his friends about the kill.

[Moleculor]

BECAUSE MAXES ARE ARMOR, and only guns come from lockers, and only ones you put in their at that, lets not taunt before we get the basics of gameply down, k.

Oh, well they need to say that somewhere. You've still got consoles that are out of the way.

Great, skeeters im ignoring while im bunkering Inside waiting for reinforcements to arrive, and how well can you shoot falling a couple hundred feet per second. Your also not gonna get into the clouds because you can't go that high, and even if you can your combat innefective, and your vehicles run into, dun dun dun, MY MINES, not to mention massive quantities of Decimater fire, and we can spray all we want, cause ammo isn't that much of an issue. (vehicles eat up NTU's, not guns and bullets.)

Actually, I thought vehicles HAD a set amount of ammo. Or so I've seen on screenshots. Also, you CAN get into the clouds, because that's the ENTIRE point of weather systems. And who CARES if a Galaxy is combat ineffective. If you're carrying a full cargo, you don't want to put yourself into a position to shoot or be shot at. And you aren't falling several hundred feet per second, because of inertial dampeners. And people fall about that fast all the time in Tribes 2, and seem to do just fine. And if you're bunkering inside the building, you sure as hell ain't shooting at the people falling from the sky. And you can't have THAT many mines in a SoI.

Great, so you can see us, your the one being stalked, all that means is that you know death is coming, oh, and ITS A FUCKING SIEGE, were at every damn door, its our base, were gonna have a general idea what it looks like.

So you're going to be on full alert 24/7? Wow. That's going to be some impressive outfits you've got going. Sorry, but if you don't know we're coming (the whole point of being a stealther) and we're smart enough not to be seen, you won't be 'jumpy' at all.

[Sputty]

Heh, air vehicles can't get into the clouds. This was said in the PSU dev chat. Also, weather reduces visibility creatoing more of a prob for flying. oeple using the dampeners make a prime target for being killed. The trail they make is extremely noticeable. People will be on alot. Enough people mean that there will people playing 24/7.

[Moleculor]

Well you still have cloud cover (meaning reduced visibility) and I said FULL ALERT meaning his 'jumpy' and 'twitchy' thing. Which would only happen if they KNEW someone was in the base.

And everyone seems to think that I'm looking to be some l33t stealth killer looking to score kills. Sorry, but I've never said that once.

[Incompetent]

So you're going to be on full alert 24/7? Wow. That's going to be some impressive outfits you've got going. Sorry, but if you don't know we're coming (the whole point of being a stealther) and we're smart enough not to be seen, you won't be 'jumpy' at all. well, when we get buzzed by multiple galaxies, thats generally a clue to wake the fuck up, and if your coming in before you initiate the attack, well then your just gonna get owned by spitfires and i can split my garrison and half can go off and cap one of your bases.

and no, the consoles are all clustered together, because any base designer with his head out of his ass would know a simple trick like that and not put it in a situation like that, and even if they do, we can just blow the damn thing up so you can't use it
Actually, I thought vehicles HAD a set amount of ammo. waht does that have to do with anything, Decimators are AT weapons, and since their man portable, their dirt cheap, s i can get a whole lot of them

Well as long as it's MOSTLY invisible, I'll be fuxx0ring happy! What I'm saying is is that the only example of 'shimmer' in the screenshots I've seen (I still haven't seen any movie with stealthers in it) is an ugly Tribes 2-esque cloud texture on domes 'n such. And that's not MOSTLY invisible, that's glaringly obvious. Mostly hidden doesn't it cut it, all it takes is one guy to get suspicious

Oh, well they need to say that somewhere.they do, lots of places, common sense is one of many, its an exoskelton, not a swimsuit, it takes up some space and is a bitch to put on

And who CARES if a Galaxy is combat ineffective. if you're carrying a full cargo, you don't want to put yourself into a position to shoot or be shot at. thank you for taking 14 people out of the fight i can deal with at my leasure.

And you aren't falling several hundred feet per second, because of inertial dampeners KENETIC dampners only kick in near the ground, and you might as well paint yourself neon blue because thats what you'll look like.

And if you're bunkering inside the building, you sure as hell ain't shooting at the people falling from the sky. So, what, im not allowed to walk outside now, i can;t jump out once your recon ships finish a pass, open up with an AA MAX, kill one or two of the fallers and maybe a skeeter if your bored, then run back inside before they come back

[Moleculor]

well, when we get buzzed by multiple galaxies, thats generally a clue to wake the fuck up, and if your coming in before you initiate the attack, well then your just gonna get owned by spitfires and i can split my garrison and half can go off and cap one of your bases.

Oh. I'm sorry. Did I fail to describe the scenario TWICE for the dense non-readers here? Squad of cloaked people going in and taking out turrets/power BEFORE the airdrop. Does that help you understand?

and no, the consoles are all clustered together

HAH! No they aren't! They're scattered all over the base! Sure, there might be a few more near the respawn chambers, but there's no way they're going to force people to walk to a certain point in the base to get armor. It would be a strategic weakness. Either it's too far inside to grab armor for when you're entering the base, or it's too far outside when defending after respawning.

we can just blow the damn thing up so you can't use it

Sorry, but that won't work. Why do you think NTUs are used up faster in a battle? Auto-repair systems, that repair things very slowly. And not only that, but not everyone will appreciate having their consoles blown up. And not only THAT, but you'll accrue grief points for blowing up your own consoles. Sorry, but you won't be able to deny access like that.

waht does that have to do with anything, Decimators are AT weapons, and since their man portable, their dirt cheap, s i can get a whole lot of them

Well then why the hell did you bring up vehicles using NTUs instead of bullets (which they don't)?

Mostly hidden doesn't it cut it

Sure it does for someone who's intelligent.

they do, lots of places, common sense is one of many, its an exoskelton, not a swimsuit, it takes up some space and is a bitch to put on

If you're -only- going off of common sense, then I want you to find a link, because the way lockers store things is through nanite deconstruction, which SAVES space like a crazy-mofo.

thank you for taking 14 people out of the fight i can deal with at my leasure.

...

Can you be any more dense? You fly high till you're over the base, drop your people and THEN you can go on strafing runs. How hard is this to understand?

KENETIC dampners only kick in near the ground, and you might as well paint yourself neon blue because thats what you'll look like.

Kinetic, inertial, same result. Besides, once you're low enough for them to kick in, you'll be obvious enough from firing. Your point is?

So, what, im not allowed to walk outside now, i can;t jump out once your recon ships finish a pass, open up with an AA MAX, kill one or two of the fallers and maybe a skeeter if your bored, then run back inside before they come back

Riiiiight. Recon ships? Try ships with guns. And those tanks are going to be firing just nicely. Every second you hide in the base is a second those MAXes get closer to the ground. Every second you take in shooting down the mosquitos, or trying to take out the tanks (BTW, you might just have to go running to a console just to get the weaponry to do this with, so that'll take longer, assuming the power isn't already out) is time the MAXes and other units have to hit the dirt.

[Incompetent]

ok, lets pick, are you cloakers coming in after the assault, before the assault or during the assault, because we have already esablished that if you come in alone, i can just let the turrets have you. If they are coming in afterwards, im just gonna shoot you on accident

HAH! No they aren't! They're scattered all over the base! In groups, not off by themselves, and in strategic locations benificial to ME, no doubt

Auto-repair systems, that repair things very slowly you can turn them off

If you're -only- going off of common sense, then I want you to find a link, i'm not doing your fucking research for you, anyone, even the greenest person here could tell you that lockers don't hold armor.

Can you be any more dense? You fly high till you're over the base, drop your people and THEN you can go on strafing runs. ok, so you said run away and keep your people safe, now there ejecting as he heads up and any galaxy pilot to stupid not to run away when he gets shot at deserves what he gets

Riiiiight. Recon ships? Try ships with guns Role: Light Attack & Recon
Primary Weapon: Light Rotary Chaingun
and you think a MAX will give a damn while you shoot at it.

Every second you take in shooting down the mosquitos, or trying to take out the tanks Decimators Dumbfuck

Every second you hide in the base is a second those MAXes get closer to the ground. Now that the majority of your forces are dead, i doubt ill have a problem with a few straglers

[Moleculor]

ok, lets pick, are you cloakers coming in after the assault, before the assault or during the assault, because we have already esablished that if you come in alone, i can just let the turrets have you. If they are coming in afterwards, im just gonna shoot you on accident

As I said on page TWO of this thread (you weren't paying attention), BEFORE the assault. And I'm assuming there are ways around the motion sensors, as if their aren't, my previous statement about stealth not being stealthy still stands, and I won't be playing.

In groups, not off by themselves, and in strategic locations benificial to ME, no doubt

Even in groups there will be some by the alternate entrances 'n such. With the size of these bases, there will ALWAYS be an unguarded station or two. And strategic is strategic is strategic. You're going to need stations near the bottom of the base for when you're leaving, and stations near the top when you notice an attack and have to duck inside to get gear.

you can turn them off

So? You still have the problem with grief points (I would LOVE to hear that someone got banned from the game from destroying consoles!) and other players not liking you destroying consoles (and thereby reporting you to the CSRs).

i'm not doing your fucking research for you, anyone, even the greenest person here could tell you that lockers don't hold armor.

Well then lockers probably -can- contain armors. In fact, I'm pretty sure they do, as it's been stated that if you are prepared, loss of power won't hamper you because you'll have decent amounts of equipment and armor in your locker.

ok, so you said run away and keep your people safe, now there ejecting as he heads up and any galaxy pilot to stupid not to run away when he gets shot at deserves what he gets

Who said -anything- about running away? I said out of range! There's a difference. High enough to avoid most fire, or low enough to come up over the wall before you get a chance to lock onto it.

Role: Light Attack & Recon
Primary Weapon: Light Rotary Chaingun
and you think a MAX will give a damn while you shoot at it.

Quite possibly. Besides, if you happen to be lucky enough to be in a AA MAX when my bombs go off, then you're just lucky I guess. With good organization, that Galaxy should be along 15-30 seconds after your generator goes down. Not nearly enough time to get an AA MAX from your locker (if you even can/have one).

Decimators Dumbfuck

Psh. And? If you think that Verant is going to be stupid enough to make sure there are no one-shot weapons for infantry, yet they're going to include them for vehicles, well, 'dumbfuck'.... you just might have another thing coming.

Now that the majority of your forces are dead, i doubt ill have a problem with a few straglers

Mmmhm. Suuure. Dead huh?

[Incompetent]

As I said on page TWO of this thread (you weren't paying attention), BEFORE the assault. And I'm assuming there are ways around the motion sensors, as if their aren't, my previous statement about stealth not being stealthy still stands, and I won't be playing. ok, so stop acting like their gonna do something, cause their all dead, i might not have my entire base on alert, but im gonna have a sentry with darklight or six making sure you don't pull a stupid trick like this, and the second they move at any faster then walking pace, your gonna have a shitload of turrets to deal with, and if you don't well, target practice.

So? You still have the problem with grief points your not gonna get banned over tking a console, and i doubt the garrison is gonna be to pissed off at what their commanding officer orders them to do something that makes tactical sense, also, you have a flawed understanding of the grief system, so why not pay attention to what happens before a ban.

Well then lockers probably -can- contain armors. In fact, I'm pretty sure they do, as it's been stated that if you are prepared, loss of power won't hamper you because you'll have decent amounts of equipment and armor in your locker. Too stupid to deserve even this

Who said -anything- about running away? I said out of range! There's a difference. High enough to avoid most fire, Most fire is not AA MAXs, you can't get away from them by going up

Besides, if you happen to be lucky enough to be in a AA MAX when my bombs go off, your bombs are never going off, we already established that all your cloakers are dead and we are now fully alert, I.E. AA MAXs and heavy infantry on the walls. I.E. dead Galaxies

Psh. And? If you think that Verant is going to be stupid enough to make sure there are no one-shot weapons for infantry Thats why i use more then one of them, and thats not even considering the fun i could have with AT MAXs, Strikers, Rocklets, Thumpers and Punishers.

[Agent]

Wow this ridiculous flaming needs to stop now.

[Moleculor]

ok, so stop acting like their gonna do something, cause their all dead, i might not have my entire base on alert, but im gonna have a sentry with darklight or six making sure you don't pull a stupid trick like this, and the second they move at any faster then walking pace, your gonna have a shitload of turrets to deal with, and if you don't well, target practice.

That's why you don't move faster than a walk. Duh.

You know what? Fuck this. You're going to constantly assume that stealth sucks, and I will talk from a point of view where stealth is good enough for me to play, and we'll get nowhere. I still say that with a good -balanced- stealth system my stealthers would NOT be dead, and you would be out of power AND turrets.

your not gonna get banned over tking a console, and i doubt the garrison is gonna be to pissed off at what their commanding officer orders them to do something that makes tactical sense, also, you have a flawed understanding of the grief system, so why not pay attention to what happens before a ban.

Uh, hello? You TK stuff enough and your grief points will accumulate. Period. Eventually you'll lose the ability to fire. And you do it enough, someone will pick up on it and they'll ban you. I seriously doubt that Verant is going to be stupid enough not to have a human element monitoring TKing, and there will be the people that TK enough to not -quite- hit grief levels, and they will have to find a solution for those people, probably involving if you hit a certain level a certain number of times, it starts bumping up to higher levels (like the UO murder system where turning red five times makes you perma-red... if that's still how they do it, that is).

[Incompetent]

That's why you don't move faster than a walk like i said, target practice. prove to me that its not worthless for anything but scouting.

I still say that with a good -balanced- stealth system my stealthers would NOT be dead, and you would be out of power AND turrets. your walking through a minefield laced with boomers, Spitfires, motion sensors and regular sentry patrols, if you walk, the sentries slaughter you and tell everyone, if you run, the turrets slaughter you and tell everyone. You jump, you get a nice blue arrow pointing at you, how the hell are you getting in.

Uh, hello? You TK stuff enough and your grief points will accumulate. Period. Eventually you'll lose the ability to fire. And you do it enough, someone will pick up on it and they'll ban you. Reread the section on greif, its all automated and it goes away over time, i can just have a different person kill each one, they'll have a few grief points, but they won't give a damn because they would be gone within the day, and any human would side with me that it makes tactical sense to spike something that you cannot defend and deny it's use to the enemy.

[Hamma]

Lets tone it down here please. Thx in advance :love:

[Incompetent]

bah, its over anyway, he abdicated, i just put the last nail into the coffin because i wanted it good and buried, didn't want anyone trying to restart it.

[Moleculor]

Abdicated? No, just being smart. You're refusing to see possibilities because of a self-professed hatred you have of stealth systems.

prove to me that its not worthless for anything but scouting.

Ok. When the game comes out with a decent, workable stealth system, I will.

Reread the section on greif, its all automated and it goes away over time

/report Incompetent

^ Simple. Human.

[Sputty]

Molecular, now you're just resorting to flaming so I think Incompetent did bury this.

[Incompetent]

/report Incompetent
yeah, like they would let you report your enemies

Abdicated? No, just being smart. You're refusing to see possibilities because of a self-professed hatred you have of stealth systems. and with your self-professed love you can't see their glaring vulnerabilities in combat. Their job is to watch, nothing more, nothing less, and they do a kickass job at it, so don't mess with what they do

edit: He wants to keep it going, im not running from a winning position sputty

[Moleculor]

yeah, like they would let you report your enemies

And you don't think the people in your empire won't be reporting you for destroying the very consoles they want to use?! I know I would!

and with your self-professed love you can't see their glaring vulnerabilities in combat. Their job is to watch, nothing more, nothing less, and they do a kickass job at it, so don't mess with what they do

Um... Hello? As the devs 'n such have described the infiltrator, it is designed to be used as anything like stealth sabotage 'n such. Which means they can get into bases, evade your precious 'patrols' and 'sentries' (which, by the way, assumes a perfect patrol system working 24/7 with enough people at the exact right times. Your defense assumes perfection at all times. All we need perfection for is 20 or so minutes.).

And Sputty? Everyone is flaming.

[Incompetent]

well, you ssem to want the damn thing so bad, so i'd say the republic would be pretty damn interested in holding the thing.

And you don't think the people in your empire won't be reporting you for destroying the very consoles they want to use?! I know I would! well, thats why i would boot you out of a garrison i had command of, because you don't understand handing equipment to the enemy and saying, "here, use this" is a really fucking bad idea.

Which means they can get into bases, evade your precious 'patrols' and 'sentries' (which, by the way, assumes a perfect patrol system working 24/7 with enough people at the exact right times. Your defense assumes perfection at all times. You assume im not constantly attacking your base and beating the shit out of your outposts at all times, this is a test, and tests assume optimal conditions. Besides, with the kind of gear your scraping up, you think were not gonna expect and attack, i would use scouts you know, these are important things to know.

BTW you'll never drag 5 Galaxies, a properly certed group of stealths, enough MAXs of the correct type, enough Armor and enough Infantry in 20 minutes or so, that could potentially take weeks to organize. Hell, i doubt even Sturmgrenadier could field a force like that without at least 2-3 hours of prep time, and when i see people massing tanks, i start being careful

[OneManArmy]

damn, this is quite a post!!! :eek:


now all thats left is for some one to drop a MF or 2.

[RageMaster]

Its a pointless post as it's quite obvious neither of them will ever reach a high command level.

Incompetent, I'd report you to the admins for blowing up a console in a base I was at. People will need to use them and its a huge grief to your own faction. You will not be appreciated within your faction, and you ceirtainly won't recruit many members with that attitude. Not everyone would see it as a 'counter-stealth' tactic, they'd probabally TK you for it infact.

I think both of you are presuming way way too much about this game, you haven't even played it! How can you defend your argument in so much detail when most of what you're arguing about is up in the air to all of us!

Furthermore, your talking about huge operations, with 20 plus members per outfit, needing certs that people probabally wont see for the first month of the game, all localised under your own command (which from the maturity of things in this topic look unlikely) with a flawless communication system, all doing what you say to the word, and without considering outside elements, like other players doing their own thing.

Hell, the games in beta, not even the dev's know how the game will turn out in the end.

All I will say is I'm a strategically minded player, and I have the capacity to learn the best and most entertaing uses for stealth, and look forward to exploring the Infiltration Suit. Incompetent, realise that you WILL be outsmarted by an Infiltrator atleast once in your PlanetSide carreer, and Molecular, realise to be as sucessful as you claim you will be you have to be VERY slick and on the ball to play an Infiltrator, dont think you won't fail lots.

[mr_luc]

Pshaw.

Whiny baby. :)

I'm not worried about that at all. I don't care if you turn totally visible the second you start to move.

My single biggest worry is that they'll won't make the player model for AT REST players COMPLETELY INVISIBLE, NOT DRAWN AT ALL.

Because all it takes is a minor driver hack, and boom, no transparency. This isn't that big of a problem for moving -- I would assume whenever I'm moving that someone is going to see me, so I would try to only move when no one is around. Hacked drivers might let you see someone who is moving -- *I CAN LIVE WITH THAT*. But when I'm standing still, I had better damn well be totally invisible, not drawn, and my position not sent to their client. I mean, that can't be too hard to code, can it? If he's standing still, he is totally invisible?

I would still play the game. But I really, really want there to be a viable stealth component along with all of the other great things I am reading about this game.

[mikkyT]

Incompetent by name Incompetent by nature eh!?

Psh. Or you sneak in, hack a locker, grab an AI MAX, and waste people.

You have to actually have placed an AI MAX in your locker AND have the certs to use it.

won't work, first off, you can;t get an AI MAX out of a locker, you have to get it out of an invo station, invo stations=high traffic=lots of them, so the second you hack an invo, you just got an entire room shooting at you, not to mention you have to become visible to hack.

Will work, first off you CAN get an AI MAX out of a locker, you put it in there in the first place. When you hack lockers you actually access your own global locker, just like the banks in EQ.

Your right about the likelyhood of the hack not working due to high traffic though. But paticence is a virtue and you wait until theres noone around - and it WILL happen as the world is sooo big. Then of course theres the time it takes to switch your inventory etc.

But dont diss the scenario just because this guy seems like a 1337 wanabe. Althou Im scared that he wants the same start of certs as me (hack, infil, wraith).

oh, and the second you step inside, i have a perfect, impossible to miss shot if i even think i see a flicker. I can just spray a corridor, and since you decloak when hit, then i can spray YOU, even without detection gear.

look, the way i see it, cloaking is always too powerful, or too weak, its never balanced and i'm glad they decided to nerf it before it drove everyone insane.

I think its gonna work just fine. Your just a sadly so single minded you will not accept anything other than "grunt powa".

Also, you only get ONE pistol, so if you bring a REK, the only thing you can defend youself with is a knife and knife v anything with bullets and a clue=owned

Not true. You can carry the pistol in the pistol slot, the knife in the knife slot, plus you get your inventory (in my case filled with a REK and ACE, SP says this is possible as this is the loadout he has on a stealther).

[Incompetent]

Its a pointless post as it's quite obvious neither of them will ever reach a high command level.
Incompetent, I'd report you to the admins for blowing up a console in a base I was at. People will need to use them and its a huge grief to your own faction. You will not be appreciated within your faction, and you ceirtainly won't recruit many members with that attitude. Not everyone would see it as a 'counter-stealth' tactic, they'd probabally TK you for it infact. I don't want to reach a high command level, all i want to do is drive an APC, but destroying things you can't defend is a viable tactic. And i think its funny people think that blowing up a few rudundant consoles would be a "huge grief." major edit: another thing i find funny is how many people say they will tk their squadmates if they don't follow orders exactly, but a few redundant equipment consoles so you can consolidate to better positioned and easier to defend equipment consoles, i mean, what did they ever do to deserve that.
Will work, first off you CAN get an AI MAX out of a locker, you put it in there in the first place. When you hack lockers you actually access your own global locker, just like the banks in EQ. Um, no, you can't, the devs have personnally stated that the ONLY place you can change armors is an equipment console
Incompetent, realise that you WILL be outsmarted by an Infiltrator atleast once in your PlanetSide carreer A few times, but those would be negligable to the number of times that you send the enemies plans into a corkscrew because you eliminate the forces he is relying on to destroy your outer defenses and disrupt
Furthermore, your talking about huge operations, with 20 plus members per outfit, needing certs that people probabally wont see for the first month of the game, all localised under your own command completely invalidates everything if its not a a large operation, because you couldn't just take it with a few MAX suits overrun the garrison in the blink of an eye and hack the base with a reinforced. It also completely invalidates everything if you don't give me equal forces, because i would have just been overrun anyway

[mikkyT]

But when I'm standing still, I had better damn well be totally invisible, not drawn, and my position not sent to their client.

I was speaking to Zataris, albeit on a related issue (hacking, cheating, examining packets ala ShowEQ) and as far as we're concerned, the server will not send anything that the client is not supposed to see.

For example, your on one side of a hill, an army on the other. You cannot see thru the hill or behind the hill. The server knows this, and will not even send the packets of data related to any object behind the hill, because you cant see behind the hill. This is to elliminate packet sniffing. There is no point in sniffing packets as the only data contained within the packets is data you know already.

Therefore, it stands to reason that this eliminate cheating code will be implemented across the board, as the dev team seem to have done a good job with the above they arent going to screw up by allowing stealthed peeps to be visible thru a gfx hack, cos you aint gonna get any data about peeps u cant see!

[mikkyT]

Um, no, you can't, the devs have personnally stated that the ONLY place you can change armors is an equipment console

Didnt realise this :D

[NeoTassadar]

Why are you guys on Incompetent for a tried and proven strategy? He's talking about consoles that are about to be turned against you. Take out a few near where the breach in the defenses is, and when it's quiet again in that section, have an engineer repair them. It's a lot better than Inf. guys coming in and grabbing Reinforced/Lancer or MAXs inside your perimeter. It's the same strategy as the Russians during Napolean's and Hitler's campaigns. Scortched earth. If the enemies about to take it, it's better for it not to exist anymore.

Edit: I do not, however, agree with him on stealth. But that's just me. :D

[simba]

LOL TALK ABOUT QUOTES!
hihihhi one against infiltrators and one who wanna be one fighting with eachother, couldent be more funny :D

anyway the infiltrator has a 3X9 inventory only, one knife and ONE pistol. Im pretty it has 3X9 in inventory anyway.
ill search for a pic of the almost invisible infiltrator, the more the guy with stealth suit moves, the more its visible
here it is :) http://www.planetside-universe.com/media/viewer.php?img_id=571

[mikkyT]

THX Simba! Now that rocks..., yes you can see him, thats cos hes 1 foot away and moving!!

I'll see if I can find the thread about standard stealth load out. But Im sure its 3x9 too, enough to fit REK & ACE

[mikkyT]

Go here if you want your hack-free stealthing questions answered and bump the post:

http://boards.station.sony.com/ubb/planetside/Forum3/HTML/001684.html

[simba]

ey np mikky just glad I could help, nice to be appreaciated:)
and thx for the adress

[Moleculor]

Why are you guys on Incompetent for a tried and proven strategy?

Because his strategy is either impossible to impliment or truly griefing.

I enter base as a stealther alone, without any attack going on outside, through an alternate entrance.

I find a console.

This is where Incompetent says that I won't be able to do anything, because the console would have been destroyed by him.

Firstly, if it is destroyed, and there is no actual attack taking place outside, he either has psychic abilities, and can know when I'm coming, what direction I'm coming from, and which consoles to destroy, OR he has simply destroyed all consoles near the surface.

The first is impossible, as he doesn't have psychic powers, and the second will be percieved as griefing (and indeed WILL be griefing).

This is not a scorched earth scenario where they're fighting us off. This is where someone slips in without someone knowing.

And if he's going to say "Well, all consoles will be guarded, or destroyed!" then he's both advocating griefing, and deluded about how much time the random Joe will want to spend standing around defending something when there isn't an attack going on.

[Incompetent]

Why can't we just consolidate to a few groups of consoles because we know that if we don't, we're vulnerable?

[Moleculor]

Because you're talking about 10K+ people, of which a good 8K or so don't care about your precious strategies or tactical strength, and will want working consoles in every base.

Unless you intend to get yourself, and fourty or fifty of your buddies to EXCLUSIVELY take over a base, denying or controlling access to it's facilities and grounds to anyone, whether friend or foe, you will not be able to maintain a base with only partially working consoles, as some 'helpful' soul will go around repairing them when you're not looking.

And when those people not in on your strategy, or those who just want to play to have fun, and don't care (or don't comprehend) such things as denying access to things that can be used against you see you employing your precious 'scorched earth' strategy, they will report you to the Devs as being a griefer who's trying to get around the automated rules, and you stand a chance at being banned for TKing consoles for 'strategic' purposes (because if Verant didn't intend for those consoles to be used, they wouldn't have put them there, and by destroying them, you not only are attempting to alter the balance they have put in place, you're also draining your own team's NTU supplies faster than they should be, both of which could be considered either exploiting, or griefing).

On top of that, if you concentrate all the working consoles in the basement of your base, we can do a surprise strike against your base (after scouting it out with stealthers) and by the time you run downstairs, grab your gear for defense, and run back upstairs, we're already inside your base, repairing and using your consoles against you.

[Incompetent]

ok, the fucking thread was dead, but here is the ONLY situation that any of the outlined scenarios could take place, an outfit, lets say it's mine, takes over a base, we wait the 15 minutes for it to turn, and no counterattack comes, so we KNOW a fight is on the way, we're all alert, we all know its coming, and we all know how the commader thinks, so if he says consolidate to this, this and this console cluster and spike this one, they will do it. If you don't counter-attack within maybe an hour, were gonna move on and i don't give a shit if your precious stealths spearhead the cap, because their will only be around a squad of people providing security, and a balanced squad could do it twice as fast and give my empire less warning that we need to run their. Now, read up about the grief system, how your inventory works and how lockers work, and im going to request this thread is locked/deleted.

[Moleculor]

Umm... Only possible times the scenarios can take place? Sorry, but that's just not true. I can, as the whim takes me, pop into a stealth suit, sneak into a base, grab a MAX, and waste five or so people at my leisure. Sure, I'll die eventually (or run away), but that's five or so people worth of BEP.

And I know how the griefing system works. Do you SERIOUSLY think they won't have a human element to step in when someone is doing things that ruin the 'fun' of the game, but don't involve killing people? Like, for example, stalking someone, or harrassing them, or... say.... blowing up friendly consoles?

[Incompetent]

Umm... Only possible times the scenarios can take place? every scenario outlined here has around 100 people per side, so yeah, thats the only time its ever gonna take place, any other time you can go in and kill a few people who are respawning, but you could do it twice as well if you just went in with a MAX in the first place. You can argue you excel at small scale ops, but i can argue ANYTHING can excel in a small scale op, and do it better then a stealth, since they don't have to worry about getting owned even someone even thinks they might have seen them

[Moleculor]

every scenario outlined here has around 100 people per side

Umm.. No.

Allow me to quote from page TWO.

Psh. Or you sneak in, hack a locker, grab an AI MAX, and waste people.

It's mentioned in various other parts of this thread as well. You need to think beyond base capturing. Sure, that's the ultimate goal in this game, but it would help advancement in certifications greatly if you could sneak in and waste people when there ISN'T a battle going on.

And no, you couldn't do it twice as well if you went in with a MAX in the first place, as you'd be stopped before you got deep enough. Or even to the front door.

[Incompetent]

allow me to quote from, well, whever, its everywhere anywayYOU CAN'T GET MAXES OUT OF LOCKERS, the inventory system does NOT work that way. And no, you couldn't do it twice as well if you went in with a MAX in the first place, as you'd be stopped before you got deep enough. Or even to the front door. If people are alert to stealths, and given the saturation of the community by them, they will almost always be, a stealth has even less of a chance of making it through the door You need to think beyond base capturing, but it would help advancement in certifications greatly if you could sneak in and waste people when there ISN'T a battle going on.That doesn't accomplish anything tho, they'll just respawn a few seconds later and moan about stealthers for a few minutes, then go on they're way to do something else. Will it be annoying, and will it be an effective delaying tactic, yes. Would a MAX do a better job in both instances, probably. And as for certs, if you want those just join a platoon, head for a battle, and start shooting, your BEPs will accumeulate at an exponentially faster rate.

edit: and seriously, let the thread die, we've both alienated any undecideds by now and we're making ourselves look like idiots, it's never gonna end if we don't just agree to disagree, and see how it all turns out in a few months.

[Moleculor]

I wasn't TALKING about lockers, I was talking about solo suicide missions. I don't care if lockers can hold armor or not, the point is, you can sneak into a base, change your armor SOMEHOW, and then start killing people for BEP.

If people are alert to stealths, and given the saturation of the community by them, they will almost always be, a stealth has even less of a chance of making it through the door

Wrong. They can't see me coming, I don't show up on radar, and I use an entrance outside of a base's walls. (Such as the one >>>here<<< (http://www.gamerspulse.com/modules/Screenshots2003/Planetside/image21.jpg). Notice he's outside the base, looking AWAY from the base, and zoomed in a good ways. That alternate entrance is a goodly ways outside of the base. Which means it's either going to be undefended, or you're going to need a LOT of people to defend the base (which must be HUGE if the basement reaches out that far) and that entrance. And since you'll need a lot of people, it won't be defended, because this is an online game with people who don't care that much when the base isn't under attack.)

If they don't know I'm coming, then they won't catch me. If I'm in a MAX, they'll see me coming long before I get to an entrance.

That doesn't accomplish anything tho, they'll just respawn a few seconds later and moan about stealthers for a few minutes, then go on they're way to do something else.

...

Ok, you didn't take my advice. THINK OUTSIDE OF CAPPING BASES!

Won't serve a purpose? HELLO?! BEP! You get BEP for killing people! You manage to entrench yourself well enough in an enemy base with a MAX, and you can earn a lot of BEP before someone takes you out (probably with a rocket launcher).

[Incompetent]

Wrong. They can't see me coming, I don't show up on radar, and I use an entrance outside of a base's wallsyou missed the entire point of what i said, everyone will be expecting you, everyone will be alert, because every other person wants to be a stealther. Won't serve a purpose? HELLO?! BEP! You get BEP for killing people! You manage to entrench yourself well enough in an enemy base with a MAX, And as for certs, if you want those just join a platoon, head for a battle, and start shooting, your BEPs will accumeulate at an exponentially faster rate. seriously, let the thread die, we've both alienated any undecideds by now and we're making ourselves look like idiots, it's never gonna end if we don't just agree to disagree, and see how it all turns out in a few months.