PS2 confirmed to only have servers in one area of USA

[Bags]

N. American servers will almost certainly be located in the same place. 10 years ago ping time could be significantly reduced just by placing them on either end of the continent, but thankfully technology has advanced.
http://www.planetside-universe.com/showpost.php?p=692752&postcount=101

When I play on West Coast vs East Coast WoW servers I get 150 vs 82 ping.
When I play on West Coast vs East Coast TF2 servers I get 120 vs 20 ping.
When I play on West Coast vs East Coast BF3 servers I get 100 vs 30 ping.
When I play on West Coast vs East Coast PS1 servers I get 130 vs 60 ping.

I have no idea where these servers will be located, but since SOE is located on the west coast I imagine they will be west coast. I am making this thread to get some answers hopefully (that prove me wrong) and to bring awareness of this serious issue.

I don't see why they would take a step backward and only have servers in one section of the country, when modern games like WoW, BF3, TF2, and old games like PS1 had servers across the country, allowing everyone to have good ping.

Now if the servers will be located in central US that will be better, but again I'd rather make ruckus now in case they are planning to have them all west coast, since RadarX doesn't think that moving servers around the country helps.

I was really hoping for some central servers at the very least, so my friends and I who are scattered around the country could all play on the same server with decent pings. Now it seems all of us easterners might get shafted.

[Figment]

Undoubtedly would be placed in San Diego.


Though would make more sense to place it somewhere in the middle, or in a big internet hub like Virginia.

[DayOne]

i know the USA is just one country but do SOE not realise how big it really is? :/

[AvacadoEight]

Aye. This game seems to internet sensitive to have only one server, im going to have serious issues with SOE if this affects my gameplay. Poor move on their part.

[Kayos]

San Diego would be my guess too

[Zulthus]

If it's in San Diego it doesn't really matter to me, I live in WA.

[WellWisherELF]

Really hope this isn't true. 50-60ms is an eternity in most FPS games. This could possibly give west-coast players a noticeable advantage, although it remains to be seen how the client is affected by ping differential.

[SgtMAD]

Undoubtedly would be placed in San Diego.


Though would make more sense to place it somewhere in the middle, or in a big internet hub like Virginia.

Las Vegas is a big hub,no corporate income tax,alot of big dot coms here,

Zappo's just bought the old city hall and turned it into their headquarters

SOE already has a couple of games hosted here.

[GhettoPrince]

It's 3000 miles from New York to Los Angeles and 2000 miles from Los Angeles to Hawaii, that fact is why the internet was invented in the first place.

I expect central and eastern US servers to go up if the game is a smash hit.

[Gonefshn]

I really hope this isn't the case or they have a good answer. I can't imagine anything more ping sensitive than PS2, atleast in concept.

One of the big concerns as it is remains how well the game will perform if it truly has thousands of players in the game space at the same time.

[Xyntech]

If it's in San Diego it doesn't really matter to me, I live in WA.

western united states not giving a fuck about the rest of the country having shitty ping master race, reporting in. fuck yeah!

i assume beta will show if this is viable or not

[AvacadoEight]

western united states not giving a fuck about the rest of the country having shitty ping master race, reporting in. fuck yeah!

i assume beta will show if this is viable or not

Im assuming you're kidding, but you do realize that, if this is the case, quite a good chunk of the Eastern US won't tolerate it and quit, right? I know if they do something stupid like this I wont play. Not going to put up with dumb shit like that.

[Hmr85]

I know realistically they will more than likely be in San Diego. But if they wanna be fair about it plop them servers down right in the middle of the east and west coast. :p

[Zar]

Alot of server company's are in Arizona and WA and Texas >.< odds are they would use those id bet on Texas. if they are going to be in one place. cheaper to outsource it then have it at their san diego or near that office >.< our taxes on new business = craptacular .... >.> i had to make up a new word cause it is really bad xD

[Mechzz]

I was told a few weeks back, by peeps on this site, that the PS1 servers have already been moved to San Diego. That put me off re-subbing and was being taken as evidence that PS2 would be the same.

And I'm not Australian, but let me say on their behalf "welcome to our world"

[Resolve]

I for one welcome our 300+ ping overlords. I really hope this isn't the truth. The east coast will suffer greatly.

[fod]

imo 1 server is enough for USA
hopefully this means they might have australian servers :)
(im allowed to wish :D )

[AvacadoEight]

imo 1 server is enough for USA
hopefully this means they might have australian servers :)
(im allowed to wish :D )

Nao. Nao servers for you.

[RoninAfro]

50-60ms is an eternity in most FPS games.

Are you saying a ping of 50-60 is an eternity or half of a second is an eternity? I would agree with the latter, but that's a 500-600 ping. Unless you're playing on dial-up still, I don't think playing on a west coast server will be an issue. I'm from the east coast, for what it matters.
I don't think ping starts to be an issue until 250, but even the Aussies seem to be able to hold their own with that. As long as it's stable, you should be able to adjust and still enjoy the game.

[QuantumMechanic]

I have re-subbed PS1 since the sole remaining server (Gemini) was moved from wherever it was to San Diego. I can confirm it cut my ping in half.

*Edit: I am on the west coast, and am stuck with a DSL connection

[Malorn]

California is a shit place for business. Dallas has a great hub with a good/decent ping everywhere in the US

[Zolan]

Austin or Dallas

That would make everyone happy, and make me really happy.

[Roy Awesome]

iirc, there was discussion about this a while ago, and it was either going to be in Las Vegas or in another central US hub city, like Dallas or Chicago.

[LtCarman]

This is a bad bad bad prospect. Very bad indeed.

I hope SoE either changes their mind or they have a REALLY good explanation for this. So far, this is my first disappointment. I hope more don't follow.

[Phellix]

Are you saying a ping of 50-60 is an eternity or half of a second is an eternity? I would agree with the latter, but that's a 500-600 ping. Unless you're playing on dial-up still, I don't think playing on a west coast server will be an issue. I'm from the east coast, for what it matters.
I don't think ping starts to be an issue until 250, but even the Aussies seem to be able to hold their own with that. As long as it's stable, you should be able to adjust and still enjoy the game.

Yup, Only time i've had problems is when i had 250~ ping from a EU server, and it was only a small delay

[Shinjorai]

Dallas or chicago would be great.

[Zulthus]

Everyone complaining about ping in the US, seriously? Give me a break. Games are still completely playable up to 200ms (so many people including myself do all the time in various games) I play on servers in Europe regularly, no difference. And if you honestly think people on the East Coast won't play because of this, you've got to be kidding me with that assumption. The sky is not falling. As someone said, unless you're still using dial-up, you don't even need to be concerned at all.

[Zhane]

I have an idea. Wait to play the game and see if it's laggy. If it is, then complain.

[Otleaz]

This may be a gamebreaker for my clan. About half of our members live in EU so we always agree to play on USeast servers.

If it is on the west we will undoubtedly be unable to play together.

[Bags]

Everyone complaining about ping in the US, seriously? Give me a break. Games are still completely playable up to 200ms (so many people including myself do all the time in various games) I play on servers in Europe regularly, no difference. And if you honestly think people on the East Coast won't play because of this, you've got to be kidding me with that assumption. The sky is not falling. As someone said, unless you're still using dial-up, you don't even need to be concerned at all.

I ping 170 to Sandiego. I'm worried. Shooters are not playable at 170 ping.

And if I get 170 ping in game, I won't play.

I have an idea. Wait to play the game and see if it's laggy. If it is, then complain.

I have an idea. Let's make sure SOE knows this is a big deal before it's too late (if it isn't already). If they have west coast servers, IT WILL BE LAGGY. There is no if ands or butts here. SOE doesn't have magic technology that other companies don't.

[Kayos]

People are making way to big of a deal about 50-60ms.
i play games on NA and EU Servers where I get about 200ms to the EU server and have no problem at all.

[Bags]

People are making way to big of a deal about 50-60ms.
i play games on NA and EU Servers where I get about 200ms to the EU server and have no problem at all.

I don't understand why you get to decide for me what kind of ping I find acceptable? :rolleyes:

[Top Sgt]

lol Put the servers in nebraska

problem solved

[Stew]

this will be a catastrophe for New-york people and Montreal people we are at the others end of the westcost and even more from california since its on the extrem south west and we are on the extrem north east !

Hope they will change their mind or they will put the servers in the middle of the continents at least to have everyones to get a almost fair ping !

[Notturno]

Everyone speculating that the servers will be located where SOE is, San Diego, is basing this on nothing of any substance. While I'm not an expert on the subject, I do know that most of the United States' internet piping goes through Dallas and Chicago. Physical distance has less to do with it than the actual pipe laid; having the servers in a hub like Dallas or Chicago ultimately makes the most sense. Players on both the east and west coasts will easily ping under ~150ms with your average broadband internet connection.

It's very likely this is what they are looking at. SOE probably employs several individuals who are experts on this subject, and we have a bunch of people in this thread with limited knowledge on the subject claiming doom and gloom. Chill out, there's absolutely zero reason to have any sort of panic over this before anything is even announced.

[Malorn]

I'm im Seattle and get a great ping to Dallas. I cant imagine East coast is any different.

Hell for all we know server location may not matter because they leverage peer to peer. Server might only be for correction and hit/damage/visibility confirmation while the clients send to each other all the other stuff in order to make the game playable. MMO means it isnt likely the same old shit as a session shooter.

[Xyntech]

Im assuming you're kidding, but you do realize that, if this is the case, quite a good chunk of the Eastern US won't tolerate it and quit, right? I know if they do something stupid like this I wont play. Not going to put up with dumb shit like that.

I was joking, but like I said; Beta will show how large a problem this is. I don't see how san diego servers will work for east coast people, but if the tech people think it will work, I guess we'll see. Hopefully it's not something they'll be 100% locked into if it doesn't work out, but maybe we'll all be surprised.

[Stew]

People are making way to big of a deal about 50-60ms.
i play games on NA and EU Servers where I get about 200ms to the EU server and have no problem at all.

WOW man if you really play game with 200 ping and you find it good i dont know whats not for you

I have 200 ping with japanease and the game is just stupid and unfair to play in those its just random bullshit and wall hack stuff

iam use to play at 30 to 60 ping MAX and i certainly do not find any ping acceptable over 80 ! even 80 can be consider as Laggy

[Phellix]

I ping 170 to Sandiego. I'm worried. Shooters are not playable at 170 ping.

And if I get 170 ping in game, I won't play.



I have an idea. Let's make sure SOE knows this is a big deal before it's too late (if it isn't already). If they have west coast servers, IT WILL BE LAGGY. There is no if ands or butts here. SOE doesn't have magic technology that other companies don't.

Shooters are playable at 170 ping...idk what kind of service you're running on but that's not even half a second delay.

[Kayos]

They will probably use some kind of Lag compensation anyway. We will see in beta if it's a big deal or not.

[Rbstr]

Meh, I sometimes get better ping to the UK than I do to Chicago, which is right down the road.

More important than regional location is location on the series of tubes.

[ChargerCarl]

theres going to be lag compensation, so it won't be that big of a deal

chicago/dallas are perfectly playable here in los angeles

[Bags]

Everyone speculating that the servers will be located where SOE is, San Diego, is basing this on nothing of any substance. While I'm not an expert on the subject, I do know that most of the United States' internet piping goes through Dallas and Chicago. Physical distance has less to do with it than the actual pipe laid; having the servers in a hub like Dallas or Chicago ultimately makes the most sense. Players on both the east and west coasts will easily ping under ~150ms with your average broadband internet connection.

It's very likely this is what they are looking at. SOE probably employs several individuals who are experts on this subject, and we have a bunch of people in this thread with limited knowledge on the subject claiming doom and gloom. Chill out, there's absolutely zero reason to have any sort of panic over this before anything is even announced.

This is what I am hoping for as best case scenario, but since it's SOE I'm going to assume Cali until we get official word.

[megamold]

you do realize that the title of this thread makes the EU people's hearts skip a beat right?

[Bags]

you do realize that the title of this thread makes the EU people's hearts skip a beat right?

Yeah, I figured, but I ran out of space.

[RedKnights]

This is... SOE... I'm not sure what I was even expecting...

[Mastachief]

another way of forcing european players to play on pro7 servers.............

[Daffan]

From AUS to West Coast would be around 200ping which is good, whereas over on East Coast i'd say 260-300 area... Europe is 330-360...

[Mastachief]

Emerald used to be 90-103ms for me
Gemini in its new home SOE SD is now 186-203ms with random disconnections every play session.
My ping to most game servers in Germany 85 -130ms

UK based

I really was hoping for a set of east coast servers so i could avoid prosatpro7 if i wanted to.

[megamold]

i dont really give a crap about who owns the server i am playing on.

if the server works and things like the store or managed by SOE ( same currecy, same items etc.) then i dont see how it matters in the slightest.

sure the phone helpdesk will be by pro7 ,but i have been gaming for 20 years and i have never called to any games phone helpdesk for any reason.

[TheRagingGerbil]

Hmm, I suspect it won't be that big of a deal. 9 years ago I played PS1 on Emerald (east coast) from Washington state. Service to homes and overall pipe speed has increased dramatically since then...

[Bazilx]

From AUS to West Coast would be around 200ping which is good, whereas over on East Coast i'd say 260-300 area... Europe is 330-360...

If I lived in Australia I would have started tunneling my way to the mainland by now, if only to get away from the spiders.

[xSquirtle]

Wondering if this will affect you? http://pingtest.net/ will give you a clearer idea of your ping possibilities.

[Jownzorz]

Guys, its 2012. If you're having ping issues when connecting from East coast to West coast or vice versa, purchase the faster internet option from your ISP.

I live in South Florida and I have no issue playing on West Coast servers. Heck, even when PS1 released, I picked Markov, not paying attention that it was a West Coast server. I don't understand where the issues are coming from. Why can't you play with 100-150ms?

I'm sure they will have the servers in Texas for the US and the EU servers somewhere in Ireland.

[xSquirtle]

Guys, its 2012. If you're having ping issues when connecting from East coast to West coast or vice versa, purchase the faster internet option from your ISP.

I live in South Florida and I have no issue playing on West Coast servers. Heck, even when PS1 released, I picked Markov, not paying attention that it was a West Coast server. I don't understand where the issues are coming from. Why can't you play with 100-150ms?

I'm sure they will have the servers in Texas for the US and the EU servers somewhere in Ireland.

I've got a 20mb line, and my ping varies from 160-250 compared to a east cost of 30-70. There is a significant difference, which is why even blizzard still launches games on multiple server locations.

[Electrofreak]

Take it from an enterprise WAN data technician for an ISP:

It's not ping times that kill your FPS game, it's jitter.

Most games take latency into consideration. It's a pretty awesome science; they've got algorithms that work out where you were x milliseconds ago and where the other guy was and whether the shot actually landed etc.

What throws that off is inconsistency with ping times. If it's going back and forth all over the place, it's going to screw with your game.

Jitter isn't dependent upon distance however, it mostly depends upon carriers and the quality of their equipment.

So really, everyone is in a panic about this and it doesn't make a huge difference.

[SKYeXile]

Guys, its 2012. If you're having ping issues when connecting from East coast to West coast or vice versa, purchase the faster internet option from your ISP.

I live in South Florida and I have no issue playing on West Coast servers. Heck, even when PS1 released, I picked Markov, not paying attention that it was a West Coast server. I don't understand where the issues are coming from. Why can't you play with 100-150ms?

I'm sure they will have the servers in Texas for the US and the EU servers somewhere in Ireland.

Playing with +150 is shit to US west, yet alone playing with like 250 to central servers.

unless they have like the mega time stamp processing server, its gonna be shit, even if they do...its still gonna be shit.

[Bags]

I live in South Florida and I have no issue playing on West Coast servers. Heck, even when PS1 released, I picked Markov, not paying attention that it was a West Coast server. I don't understand where the issues are coming from. Why can't you play with 100-150ms?



Because I'm used to getting 30 - 50 ping on every other shooter.

[LtCarman]

Guys, its 2012. If you're having ping issues when connecting from East coast to West coast or vice versa, purchase the faster internet option from your ISP.

I live in South Florida and I have no issue playing on West Coast servers. Heck, even when PS1 released, I picked Markov, not paying attention that it was a West Coast server. I don't understand where the issues are coming from. Why can't you play with 100-150ms?

I'm sure they will have the servers in Texas for the US and the EU servers somewhere in Ireland.
Tell that to people living in the mid-west where Internet access is still not a possibility to some.

Just because it doesn't affect you doesn't mean it's not a problem.

[Bags]

Tell that to people living in the mid-west where Internet access is still not a possibility to some.

Just because it doesn't affect you doesn't mean it's not a problem.

This. It's a FTP game. It's supposed to have a low barrier to entry. If everyone needs a $1200 PC and a $300/mo internet connection, not many will play.

[Electrofreak]

Guys, its 2012. If you're having ping issues when connecting from East coast to West coast or vice versa, purchase the faster internet option from your ISP.

I live in South Florida and I have no issue playing on West Coast servers. Heck, even when PS1 released, I picked Markov, not paying attention that it was a West Coast server. I don't understand where the issues are coming from. Why can't you play with 100-150ms?

I'm sure they will have the servers in Texas for the US and the EU servers somewhere in Ireland.

Damn, this thread is full of misinformation.

More bandwidth from your ISP does not equal lower ping times. Bandwidth and latency, two entirely different things.

And as I posted above, latency doesn't even really matter either, it's jitter. This whole discussion is ridiculous. If I could put you all through a WAN Networking 101 course this thread would be dead in a minute.

[SKYeXile]

This. It's a FTP game. It's supposed to have a low barrier to entry. If everyone needs a $1200 PC and a $300/mo internet connection, not many will play.

exactly, people are used to playing FPS games with low pings, you make them have 150ms, its gonna be terrible for them. I can play with upto 250ping in a CSHD/CSHP shooter, but its not exactly smooth at that point and you're at a severe disadvantage.

[DirtyBird]

If I lived in Australia I would have started tunneling my way to the mainland by now, if only to get away from the spiders.
lol, mainland, we're not all playing from Tassie. :rofl
And the spiders arent that bad so long as you check your shoes before putting them on each morning.

Somewhere on the west coast will be fine.
We use to do ok during the Tribes comps over there but the US always struggled on the return leg in our backyard. :D

[Dreamcast]

Ok the only game lately that I have played on servers has been League of Legends.


and distance does make a difference......


My friend lived around LA where the LoL servers at and he got around 8 ping...I live around 300 miles away and I get 35 ping.

I can just imagine people living in new york lol.......Still 100-150 ping isn't that bad on LoL, it might be bad on a FPS tho lol.

Im Glad I live kind of near San diego..U mad?

If the game is a hit they might make a server in the East.....Doubt it tho since League Of Legends didn't and they dont care lol.

[RedKnights]

I used to get 16 ping on emerald compared to 120'ish on Gemini.

750% is pretty serious bizzness

[Electrofreak]

I give up on you guys. I get paid to tell people who pay the company I work for millions of dollars how to configure their WAN infrastructure for their branch offices across the US and the world, and I'm ignored on a thread where everyone is freaking out about fictitious ping times.

I'll say it again. Latency doesn't mean much. Jitter is what is going to screw with your game. Often one accompanies the other but they are not the same thing. And more bandwidth will do nothing to make your ping times lower.

[Electrofreak]

I would think then the shortest distance means going through the fewest carriers and least risk of jitter. So there is a point in favoring smaller distances. In my case Time Warner Cable of NYC in the last few years have upgraded their high speed so it's less of a joke. So it is good to know, that will help. Thanks for the jitter post.

This is true, less hops means less opportunity for you to hit some overworked WAN link or device where your packet is going to be delayed. But they're not the same thing.

You could have 200 ms ping time but if you don't have any jitter your game will be reasonably good assuming the algorithms used to calculate your position, bearing etc are accurate. I can't speak to that since I'm not a game programmer but I've read about it and apparently it's pretty high tech stuff.

Think of it this way. A constant stream of positional data is going from your PC to a server. The server keeps track of the latency on the connection and takes that into account when a packet from a shooter arrives saying it's fired a shot at you. It does a whole bunch of maths to determine where the shooter was at the time the trigger was pulled and where the target was and decide if the hit happened.

If the stream of data is constant, it doesn't really matter how much delay is involved. But if the data comes in via fits and spurts, there's a lot of guesswork left to the server to estimate where you were and fill in the gaps.

That produces those "WTF man I totally shot him" moments.

[SKYeXile]

theres going to be lag compensation, so it won't be that big of a deal

chicago/dallas are perfectly playable here in los angeles

theres lag compensation in PS1, its still shit to play with a high ping.

[SKYeXile]

This is true, less hops means less opportunity for you to hit some overworked WAN link or device where your packet is going to be delayed. But they're not the same thing.

You could have 200 ms ping time but if you don't have any jitter your game will be reasonably good assuming the algorithms used to calculate your position, bearing etc are accurate. I can't speak to that since I'm not a game programmer but I've read about it and apparently it's pretty high tech stuff.

Think of it this way. A constant stream of positional data is going from your PC to a server. The server keeps track of the latency on the connection and takes that into account when a packet from a shooter arrives saying it's fired a shot at you. It does a whole bunch of maths to determine where the shooter was at the time the trigger was pulled and where the target was and decide if the hit happened.

If the stream of data is constant, it doesn't really matter how much delay is involved. But if the data comes in via fits and spurts, there's a lot of guesswork left to the server to estimate where you were and fill in the gaps.

That produces those "WTF man I totally shot him" moments.

Even with hit prediction coding though, you still run into problems when playing at a high ping or like one layman put it here "wall hacks" there's also issues with kill packets arriving after other peoples even though yours was really first.

I also imagine there willbe still all sorts of issues with getting in vehicles, implant activation or reloading since that will require server authorisation, again putting people with a higher ping at a disadvantage.

[Ohanka]

I used to get 16 ping on emerald compared to 120'ish on Gemini.

750% is pretty serious bizzness

there is virtually no difference between a ping of 16 and a ping of 120.

[Figment]

Lol Ireland servers xD The world is not THAT bad.

EU servers will either be in Amsterdam (Netherlands) like before due to big internet hub and good US connections there, though more likely Germany or Austria due to ProSieben.Sat1 and them trying to reach eastern Europe this time too.

At least the f2p market can reach the east of Europe due to lack of subscription deterent.

[Phellix]

I used to get 16 ping on emerald compared to 120'ish on Gemini.

750% is pretty serious bizzness

joke?

[Phellix]

Guess what? Nobody knows where the server is yet so quit crying about it.

[Electrofreak]

Even with hit prediction coding though, you still run into problems when playing at a high ping or like one layman put it here "wall hacks" there's also issues with kill packets arriving after other peoples even though yours was really first.

I also imagine there willbe still all sorts of issues with getting in vehicles, implant activation or reloading since that will require server authorisation, again putting people with a higher ping at a disadvantage.

It doesn't matter which order the "kill packets" arrive in when calculation is done to take into consideration what was happening at the time they were transmitted. What DOES matter is when errors in calculation result because an accurate calculation can't be made due to missing data.

These are UDP packets we're talking about here. There is no round trip. There is no confirmation needed before more data is sent. Regardless of latency, the stream of positional data continues at the same rate. You could have tons of latency and it won't matter. What matters is the consistent rate of that data arriving at the server.

You can argue with me on the subject if you wish, but you'd be wrong, I can assure you. :)

Either way, you all can panic about it, or wait until Beta and find out. Crying about it now is pointless, and unlike most other things on this forum, there's little liklihood that complaining about it now, before the Beta, will change anything.

[SKYeXile]

It doesn't matter which order the "kill packets" arrive in when calculation is done to take into consideration what was happening at the time they were transmitted. What DOES matter is when errors in calculation result because an accurate calculation can't be made due to missing data.

These are UDP packets we're talking about here. There is no round trip. There is no confirmation needed before more data is sent. Regardless of latency, the stream of positional data continues at the same rate. You could have tons of latency and it won't matter. What matters is the consistent rate of that data arriving at the server.

You can argue with me on the subject if you wish, but you'd be wrong, I can assure you. :)

Either way, you all can panic about it, or wait until Beta and find out. Crying about it now is pointless, and unlike most other things on this forum, there's little liklihood that complaining about it now, before the Beta, will change anything.

When you take posts out of context, you can make anybody wrong.

[kaffis]

Electrofreak, it's really not worth talking networking nitty gritty to the masses.

Tell them you are a packet-mancer, and that the arcane wizardry of netcode is beyond their ken to understand. The best way to judge the quality of the netcode and their respective connections to the server is not through the ping tool, but rather through gameplay experience in either beta and/or the final FREE game.

At the very least, you won't get a *smaller* audience willing to listen to your message that way. Half the time, trying to educate people about the definitions, effects, and differences between latency, jitter, bandwidth, TCP vs. UDP, protocol overhead, error detection and correction, prediction code, and the like is just arming their ignorance by giving them enough detail to think that their 5-minute crash course in term definitions gives them the whole picture.

[Baneblade]

50 ms is 0.05 seconds

As long as it is below 100 ms, it should be alright. Unless PS2 is less like PS1 and more like the typical ADHD FPS.

[Electrofreak]

Electrofreak, it's really not worth talking networking nitty gritty to the masses.

Tell them you are a packet-mancer, and that the arcane wizardry of netcode is beyond their ken to understand. The best way to judge the quality of the netcode and their respective connections to the server is not through the ping tool, but rather through gameplay experience in either beta and/or the final FREE game.

At the very least, you won't get a *smaller* audience willing to listen to your message that way. Half the time, trying to educate people about the definitions, effects, and differences between latency, jitter, bandwidth, TCP vs. UDP, protocol overhead, error detection and correction, prediction code, and the like is just arming their ignorance by giving them enough detail to think that their 5-minute crash course in term definitions gives them the whole picture.

I put on my robe and wizard hat... :rofl:

But seriously, you're right. I'll just drop it and we'll let Beta do the talking in a few weeks.

[EASyEightyEight]

If it helps narrow the possible locations of our servers, America's "center of population" puts the servers in Chicago.

Just because SOE is based on the west coast doesn't mean they'll shove the servers in their own back yard. The guys that set up the wiring, maintain the server units, and hit the reset button are a whole different team from the team T-Ray and Higby are a part of.

For the record, I'm not really sure what the guys man-handling the servers are really doing, I just know no single developer takes an impromptu flight from the west coast to where ever in the USA to kick the servers until they start working again.

[Revanmug]

theres going to be lag compensation, so it won't be that big of a deal

chicago/dallas are perfectly playable here in los angeles

Inc easy to hack client side netcode where people are going to die in a sec because of delay or going behind corner and dieing 1-2 sec later because for the other laggy player's screen, you are still there... Hell, that could even explain the weird quick death at the E3 stream.

I can't stop myself from crying of joy...

[TazmamzaT]

Am I the only one around here who trusts that SOE has it covered and we don't have to run around with our hair on fire? They said that they have the equipment to handle it I thought.

[Bags]

Am I the only one around here who trusts that SOE has it covered and we don't have to run around with our hair on fire? They said that they have the equipment to handle it I thought.

They never earned my trust with how they ran PS1. I trust the dev team, but no other part of the company.

[TazmamzaT]

They never earned my trust with how they ran PS1. I trust the dev team, but no other part of the company.
Perhaps they learned their lesson from the first and are going to do better?

[DerFurst]

I lol'd when he said "thankfully technology has advanced".
Next gen game with top of the line graphics and they have no idea how the Internet works.

Hopefully they'll come to their senses when they hear us screaming in beta.

[Bags]

PS eltroc/kaffis I dunno about anyone else but I stopped listening to you guys when you started being rude, so maybe if you stopped that people would read your posts.

Just a thought.

[Goku]

I cannot stand pings above 100. I have tried playing in TF2 UK servers with buddies over there from PS and it was awful from the East coast. I even tried playing a few servers in Texas with a few people and my ping was around 100 and I couldn't stand it. Some people are just more sensitive to this shit I guess.

[Synapse]

I cannot stand pings above 100. I have tried playing in TF2 UK servers with buddies over there from PS and it was awful from the East coast. I even tried playing a few servers in Texas with a few people and my ping was around 100 and I couldn't stand it. Some people are just more sensitive to this shit I guess.

I find if you stick to weapons that cause giant AOE explosions it works out pretty well.

Bad network days in Tribes 2 I always filled in with fusion mortar spam....especially in enclosed spaces!

[TazmamzaT]

I cannot stand pings above 100. I have tried playing in TF2 UK servers with buddies over there from PS and it was awful from the East coast. I even tried playing a few servers in Texas with a few people and my ping was around 100 and I couldn't stand it. Some people are just more sensitive to this shit I guess.
You shouldn't have an issue then, I did the ping test from Michigan to Cali and I got a 90 ping, hardly a game breaker and I can't imagine it would be much different for Mass.

[SKYeXile]

PS eltroc/kaffis I dunno about anyone else but I stopped listening to you guys when you started being rude, so maybe if you stopped that people would read your posts.

Just a thought.

lol i know,right? im talking about the client requiring server authorisation for activation of implants, something you cannot EVER trust the client with and they come in like UDP PACKETS DONT REQUIRE SERVER CONFIRMATION N00B, I'M A PACKET MASTER!

Movement would be trusted, along with physics, i dunt they would waste time with the server client prediction and the server authing those, but things on cool downs like personal shield implants would always need server authorisation even if it is predicted by the client.

[Karmic Revenge]

For the record those of us in San Diego would like you to know that we, as a general rule have VERY good connections to other locations throughout the country and the world. That means that the reverse is also true.

An interesting note, one reason San Diego HAS such good internet is in fact the massive push Sony made in 1999 when EverQuest went live. They had nowhere near enough capacity for such a successful game and they immediately started getting massive infrastructure laid out as a result.

Stop treating it like San Diego is some backwater hole with no net. It's got major connections (multiple!!) through LA (ooooo, one tiny little hop to one of the largest hubs in the world, oh noes . . .) and has been host to plenty of sites and services for years.

In addition, I have played on US servers from Europe (worse ping in most cases than across the US) in all manner of games and have had no issue adjusting to latency. (My worst internet experiences in recent times have been Battle.net ones, and those are all supposedly done in datacenters close to the individual user!)

[Sifer2]

Got to love the step backwards gaming keeps seeming to take in regards to multiplayer. Most games don't support LAN anymore. And now we can't even have servers for West,Central,East? Really? Christ.

[Revanmug]

For the record those of us in San Diego would like you to know that we, as a general rule have VERY good connections to other locations throughout the country and the world. That means that the reverse is also true.

An interesting note, one reason San Diego HAS such good internet is in fact the massive push Sony made in 1999 when EverQuest went live. They had nowhere near enough capacity for such a successful game and they immediately started getting massive infrastructure laid out as a result.

Stop treating it like San Diego is some backwater hole with no net. It's got major connections (multiple!!) through LA (ooooo, one tiny little hop to one of the largest hubs in the world, oh noes . . .) and has been host to plenty of sites and services for years.

In addition, I have played on US servers from Europe (worse ping in most cases than across the US) in all manner of games and have had no issue adjusting to latency. (My worst internet experiences in recent times have been Battle.net ones, and those are all supposedly done in datacenters close to the individual user!)

I'm not sure you are even worth responding... Hello, is there something in that brain? The idea is to spread the server rather than place 1 big center which is at one extremity of the US.

Guess what... there are other people than you on this continent and you know what is even more shocking... They might want to play without lagging since they aren't living next to you.

I'm quite happy you like your Lag when playing on europeen server. My standard for fps are higher though and it seems I ain't the only one. You got a problem with that?

[Shade Millith]

As an Australian, all I can say is -

"HAH HAH HAH, you're whinging about 150 ping? Seriously? Please excuse me, HAH!"

[kaffis]

PS eltroc/kaffis I dunno about anyone else but I stopped listening to you guys when you started being rude, so maybe if you stopped that people would read your posts.

Just a thought.
Meh. I wasn't intending to come off rude (though, I can see how it could be read that way, now that I look at it). I was aiming for a lighthearted comment to point out that nobody was listening to him in the first place, and repeating himself more doesn't help.

Also, that was my first post on the matter, and it was pretty apparent that people stopped/didn't start listening to him before he "got rude" if you want to call it that, so it doesn't exactly seem like that's what's at work.

And SkyExile, Electrofreak was entirely talking movement and hit detection, which, by sheer volume of data and the desire to have it as low latency as possible, just doesn't end up being handled with TCP because the protocol overhead and requisite acks and segment ordering just add to the latency from the actual application's perspective. Would cooldown abilities require acknowledgement from the server? Yeah, they would, and nobody's said anything to the contrary. Jitter happens with TCP and UDP alike, TCP just does segment ordering to account for it, which slows the conversation down, as it were.

[Goku]

As an Australian, all I can say is -

"HAH HAH HAH, you're whinging about 150 ping? Seriously? Please excuse me, HAH!"

Sorry, but I live in a country where I shouldn't have to worry about such pings.

[SKYeXile]

Kaffis read the posts again. Don't waste time replying again though.

[Arovien]

Really hope they don't go through with this HORRIBLE idea, unless they wanna piss off over 90% of their potential customers.

[Tallon]

<facepalm> one server....ONE bwahahahahahaha PS2 is gunna nosedive if they do this

[Zolan]

<facepalm> one server....ONE bwahahahahahaha PS2 is gunna nosedive if they do this

One server location in the U.S.A. not one server.

[Revanmug]

<facepalm> one server....ONE bwahahahahahaha PS2 is gunna nosedive if they do this

They won't have 1 server for sure. They are trying to centralise every US server (aka, every australien, US, Canadian, etc. players) to 1 specific place rather than spread them out to the usual west and east coast.

This is nothing more but a way of reducing $cost$ at the expense of playability for players that aren't exactly close to the server center.

[Xyntech]

Well they are going to have more than one North American server as well. 6000 people per server won't be enough to handle the players with just one server, not by a long shot.

Considering that it's F2P and I could easily see them needing 10 to 20+ servers for NA alone, it seems pretty silly to put them all in the same place.

[Tarconus]

Bad idea very bad, ping will have an effect on your game. You will die before you even knew what hit you with a high ping, every single shooter is this way. There is no way they came up with a magic bullet to say pings in shooters don't matter anymore.

Maybe the lag input the one person had while playing the game is whats going to happen to everyone that's how they are going to fix it just make everyone's ping artificially higher.

Even if I have a good ping(I am close by seattle) I still think they need east coast servers hell even central servers. Dumbest idea ever to say that ping won't matter and it's all going to be in one location.

It's just like in driving your reaction time gets added on to how quickly you see something so someone that sees something 1/4 second before you will have reacted before your brain even sent the signal to your finger to pull the trigger.

That even gets worse with age, so all you older vets, and by older that means over 25 when your reaction time starts to slow, you should really want more options with lower pings so that you don't have players with that much of an advantage on you that they may already have.

[Phellix]

Bad idea very bad, ping will have an effect on your game. You will die before you even knew what hit you with a high ping, every single shooter is this way. There is no way they came up with a magic bullet to say pings in shooters don't matter anymore.

Maybe the lag input the one person had while playing the game is whats going to happen to everyone that's how they are going to fix it just make everyone's ping artificially higher.

Even if I have a good ping(I am close by seattle) I still think they need east coast servers hell even central servers. Dumbest idea ever to say that ping won't matter and it's all going to be in one location.

It's just like in driving your reaction time gets added on to how quickly you see something so someone that sees something 1/4 second before you will have reacted before your brain even sent the signal to your finger to pull the trigger.

That even gets worse with age, so all you older vets, and by older that means over 25 when your reaction time starts to slow, you should really want more options with lower pings so that you don't have players with that much of an advantage on you that they may already have.


I don't even..

[Tarconus]

I don't even..

Don't even... ? what you don't have an argument? I am turning 30 this year I already know my reaction time is no where near when I was 16.

[RNFB]

San Diego is literally the furthest point in America from my location up here in Canada. I'm going to be seriously pissed if I have to play with 200+ ping.

[SKYeXile]

I don't even..

hes right, i dont know about fully killing somebody before they know what hit them, but you can certainly kill somebody before they react or given 200ms ping, kill them before you get the packet of their reaction.

[Turdicus]

Maybe they've invested in quantum tunneling server technology. Vanu tech would explain this decision

[Kran De Loy]

Wow.. this thread is just.. wow...

Okay so first off, yes having all the servers in the NA in one place is a very bad idea. Because it's a very bad idea Bags wants to up awareness about this Very Bad Idea. And I completely agree that having them all in once place would be a Very Bad Idea. Getting awareness of the choice up is a good thing if only so that SOE accountants don't get blind sided if the decision to save money and only buy space in one location for the servers doesn't work out.

From here on I'm more on the sides of NO ONE ELSE except maybe the Aussies or the Euros that want to play on NA servers.

Pings, packet loss, jitter, excreta, excreta.. are only conditions based originally from that original point which imo isn't actually the issue.

I should say that I live about 100 miles north of San Diego, but I using both speedtest.net and pingtest.net sites I get pings to Austin TX at 65ms, 0 Jitter (w/e that is), Brooklyn NY at 98ms 1ms jitter, and Chicago IL at 76ms and 2ms jitter, and Maidenhead, England at 186ms and 1ms jitter.

I frequently play Source based FPS games (which supposedly are notoriously bad at networking) and anything with less than 200 I'm fine. When it goes over 120-150 it's annoying but livable, and again that is with a game built with a supposedly terrible networking base code.

I can see that some people are more sensitive to ping than others and I'm seriously not trying to be rude here, but seriously stop being such fucking babies about it. So what you're more sensitive to higher ping just means that you've got more twitch than other people.

Also I know that some people aren't reading this post anymore because I was suddenly rude, but telling Kaffis and Electrofreak off for actually trying to help alleviate your worries, even if it was done in such a way as to possibly be taken as rude only reenforces the image that you're just being a bunch of spoiled whiny brats.

Edit: Sometimes you need to be a complete asshole to get people to see reason and honestly I hate doing that. :/

[DerFurst]

Hoping at least one person from SOE is reading these posts. It'd piss everyone off if we found out they're taking more feedback from "THE BEER THREAD" than something important like this.

[PlaceboCyanide]

I despise playing with 130+ ping, being on the east coast that will really really suck.

[Tarconus]

I can see that some people are more sensitive to ping than others and I'm seriously not trying to be rude here, but seriously stop being such fucking babies about it. So what you're more sensitive to higher ping just means that you've got more twitch than other people.


First off your "twitch" is your reaction time. Ping is how quickly you see something on your screen, then the twitch comes in. So the person with low ping and low twitch is going to be on a much better ground than anyone else.

Second, your ping is based on your connection and how your isp routes traffic not everyone's situation will be the same.

Lets put it this way me and you have the same reaction time, or "twitch" to a car stopping in front of us. We set up one car to have the break lights turn on after 50 ms of pressing on them and the other one after 200 ms of pressing on them. Who is going to stop before hitting the car and who is going to hit the car? That's what ping is it's not how fast you react to the situation it's seeing it before the other player does.

[Madlaps]

Funny thread, when Aussies post "we want Aussie servers" all the americans say "suck it up" etcetc

When it happens to you guys... :lol:

[Revanmug]

I can see that some people are more sensitive to ping than others and I'm seriously not trying to be rude here, but seriously stop being such fucking babies about it.

Oh really? you almost got me there! Almost! Continue your good work and you will fool me!

So what you're more sensitive to higher ping just means that you've got more twitch than other people.

Also I know that some people aren't reading this post anymore because I was suddenly rude, but telling Kaffis and Electrofreak off for actually trying to help alleviate your worries, even if it was done in such a way as to possibly be taken as rude only reenforces the image that you're just being a bunch of spoiled whiny brats.

Edit: Sometimes you need to be a complete asshole to get people to see reason and honestly I hate doing that. :/

And what is wrong with people nowaday?! You got used to crap. Well good for you but I refuse to eat shit like you would.

This a valid complain that wouldn't affect anybody in a bad way btw. You get a good ping next to san diego, perfect! Opening a server on the east coast doesn't change that...

If sony decide that this "issue" is not important enough to affected them negatively, then so be it but I will have said my piece and will simply not play. You got a probleme with my standard that has no affect on you?

[Tarconus]

Funny thread, when Aussies post "we want Aussie servers" all the americans say "suck it up" etcetc

When it happens to you guys... :lol:

Hey I want servers everywhere. I feel bad you guys get shafted so much.

[WNxThentar]

http://www.planetside-universe.com/showpost.php?p=692752&postcount=101

When I play on West Coast vs East Coast WoW servers I get 150 vs 82 ping.
When I play on West Coast vs East Coast TF2 servers I get 120 vs 20 ping.
When I play on West Coast vs East Coast BF3 servers I get 100 vs 30 ping.
When I play on West Coast vs East Coast PS1 servers I get 130 vs 60 ping.

I have no idea where these servers will be located, but since SOE is located on the west coast I imagine they will be west coast. I am making this thread to get some answers hopefully (that prove me wrong) and to bring awareness of this serious issue.

I don't see why they would take a step backward and only have servers in one section of the country, when modern games like WoW, BF3, TF2, and old games like PS1 had servers across the country, allowing everyone to have good ping.

Now if the servers will be located in central US that will be better, but again I'd rather make ruckus now in case they are planning to have them all west coast, since RadarX doesn't think that moving servers around the country helps.

I was really hoping for some central servers at the very least, so my friends and I who are scattered around the country could all play on the same server with decent pings. Now it seems all of us easterners might get shafted.

Because comparing a PS2 server farm to a BF3 or TF2 is like comparing your wrist watch to my Intel i7 32g ram NVidia 480 SLId machine with 23" alienware 3D monitor.

WoW does have a few data centres but PS2 isn't a BF3 / TF2 game where ping is the be all end all. CSHD curbs this out. Trust me I live in Australia. If ping was an issue I would't be able to play at the best of times.

[WNxThentar]

Hey I want servers everywhere. I feel bad you guys get shafted so much.

The problem is people don't understand how the game works and many haven't even played PS1 so they are complaining about shit they don't understand.

PS2 would suck if its region based. Sure you get better ping but ping isn't that important in PS2 as it is in other FPSs because the engine has been designed for global play in mind. Add to this if you region the servers then you'll have massive waves in the amounts of people on the servers where if you have a global community it is all ways peak time for somebody and more importantly you don't come back 12 hours later to see the entire cont has been hacked by a small team of people, almost unchallenged, simply because they have no job or work shift work.

[Kran De Loy]

First off your "twitch" is your reaction time. Ping is how quickly you see something on your screen, then the twitch comes in. So the person with low ping and low twitch is going to be on a much better ground than anyone else.

Second, your ping is based on your connection and how your isp routes traffic not everyone's situation will be the same.

Lets put it this way me and you have the same reaction time, or "twitch" to a car stopping in front of us. We set up one car to have the break lights turn on after 50 ms of pressing on them and the other one after 200 ms of pressing on them. Who is going to stop before hitting the car and who is going to hit the car? That's what ping is it's not how fast you react to the situation it's seeing it before the other player does.

Annnnnnd continuing your same why am I riding the bumper of the car in front of me?

Higher Twitch often times dictates a person's play style. That's perfectly fine and I respect people with high reaction times (since I don't have it) I'm just saying that people that keep going on about ping has to be under 100 or bust are just spoiled by their own good skills and rely too much on it. This reliance allows them to put themselves in compromising situations more often than someone with a slower reaction speed would ever allow themselves to get into.

Honestly ping under 100 is only beneficial to people with high twitch or people with a lot of foresight. The later of the two do well in any situation.

[Kayos]

If anyone is actually interested in Lag Compensation this is an article from Valve that explains a bit more about it.
It's actually a pretty interesting read.

https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Source_Multiplayer_Networking#Lag_compensation

Scroll to the top of that page to learn more too.

[Tarconus]

The problem is people don't understand how the game works and many haven't even played PS1 so they are complaining about shit they don't understand.

PS2 would suck if its region based. Sure you get better ping but ping isn't that important in PS2 as it is in other FPSs because the engine has been designed for global play in mind. Add to this if you region the servers then you'll have massive waves in the amounts of people on the servers where if you have a global community it is all ways peak time for somebody and more importantly you don't come back 12 hours later to see the entire cont has been hacked by a small team of people, almost unchallenged, simply because they have no job or work shift work.

Ping always matters, better ping means you see stuff on your screen before the other person. unless they slow data going back out to everyone the person that gets the data quicker, ping, will have an advantage.

[Tarconus]

Annnnnnd continuing your same why am I riding the bumper of the car in front of me?

Higher Twitch often times dictates a person's play style. That's perfectly fine and I respect people with high reaction times (since I don't have it) I'm just saying that people that keep going on about ping has to be under 100 or bust are just spoiled by their own good skills and rely too much on it. This reliance allows them to put themselves in compromising situations more often than someone with a slower reaction speed would ever allow themselves to get into.

Honestly ping under 100 is only beneficial to people with high twitch or people with a lot of foresight. The later of the two do well in any situation.

It's benificial to everyone, how soon you see something on your screen effects how soon you start reacting. That means a lot in a shooter not so much in a hot key mmo.

Plus relying on your good skills? WTF everyone relies on their skill there will be people that are better then you and worse then you, should you just not let people use any weapons if they kill to many people.

[SKYeXile]

If anyone is actually interested in Lag Compensation this is an article from Valve that explains a bit more about it.
It's actually a pretty interesting read.

https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Source_Multiplayer_Networking#Lag_compensation

Scroll to the top of that page to learn more too.

Yea, good read.

PS2 is said to use a hybrid though, so movement probably wont be authorised by the server.

[Kran De Loy]

And what is wrong with people nowaday?! You got used to crap. Well good for you but I refuse to eat shit like you would.

This a valid complain that wouldn't affect anybody in a bad way btw. You get a good ping next to san diego, perfect! Opening a server on the east coast doesn't change that...

If sony decide that this "issue" is not important enough to affected them negatively, then so be it but I will have said my piece and will simply not play. You got a probleme with my standard that has no affect on you?Somewhat, as I don't want SOE to lose 1 single customer. But really if you want to lose out on playing a truely superb free game because you're being petty then it has no more to do with me. All I did was try to point out that you're acting spoiled.

Also great way to miss out on the first third of my post that you just happened to clip while quoting me.

[Tarconus]

If anyone is actually interested in Lag Compensation this is an article from Valve that explains a bit more about it.
It's actually a pretty interesting read.

https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Source_Multiplayer_Networking#Lag_compensation

Scroll to the top of that page to learn more too.

That's for hit detection which can be compensated for in such a way. What I am saying is seeing someone before the other person is where the problem with someone having 100's more ms of ping then you comes in.

[Kran De Loy]

It's benificial to everyone, how soon you see something on your screen effects how soon you start reacting. That means a lot in a shooter not so much in a hot key mmo.

Plus relying on your good skills? WTF everyone relies on their skill there will be people that are better then you and worse then you, should you just not let people use any weapons if they kill to many people.

You kind of missed my point.

I'll try again. People with high pings, but are still very good at the game, will be good because they've learned a different play style than someone with low pings who is just good at reacting quickly.

The difference (and it isn't a bad difference) is that the HP player is continuously anticipating things bases on their own observations of the environment around them and over all are a more thought out play style (can't really call it cautious as that implies the person hangs back, but that's not true).

Edit: Just because you give yourself more room to react does not mean that you can not act quickly and precisely.

[Kran De Loy]

That's for hit detection which can be compensated for in such a way. What I am saying is seeing someone before the other person is where the problem with someone having 100's more ms of ping then you comes in.

100's does not equal 100.

But yeah I agree that too high of a ping is a pain in the ass, but how high is too high? Over 120-150 is annoying, under 200 is livable. Demanding under 100 or bust is just spoiled.

Also having everything in one location is still a bad idea.

Edit: and by annoying I mean I understand if people do not want to play because of it, because honestly getting shot and killed after already being around the corner for a good half second is ridic and many FPS's have coding that allows for pings of 150 or so to kill someone while they've been under cover for a good half second.

Does PS2 have it code like that? Dunno.

[Brusi]

There is a significant difference, which is why even blizzard still launches games on multiple server locations.

Diablo III just launched... does that have multiple server locations?

[Kran De Loy]

Diablo III just launched... does that have multiple server locations?

Dunno, but if so their servers suck. Frequently I get lag issues, 'specially at peak hours.

[Tarconus]

You kind of missed my point.

I'll try again. People with high pings, but are still very good at the game, will be good because they've learned a different play style than someone with low pings who is just good at reacting quickly.

The difference (and it isn't a bad difference) is that the HP player is continuously anticipating things bases on their own observations of the environment around them and over all are a more thought out play style (can't really call it cautious as that implies the person hangs back, but that's not true).

No I got your point, the person that is good with a high ping is going to be even better with a low ping. The player that has a HP and anticipating things is the same as a low ping player except that low ping player will learn of the situation around them sooner and then react sooner.

What about the player that does alright when they have a low ping because they get the information sooner but may not have as fast of reaction time to it. Now they play on high ping and well they are SOL. That's the problem with funneling everyone onto one location of servers. You are screwing people over based on their geographical location, something that unlike hardware or different isp or whatever, they most likely can't change. Or if they can they aren't going to do so based on a game.

Is it hard for them to set up servers on the east coast, in multiple locations in Europe, and in Asia, and Australia? Nope, they can even set up remote so they can access the servers, reset them ect. Big companies do it all the time, blizzard does. Even tribes ascend set up a west coast server because of ping.

The only reason I see them not wanting to do it is the cost. That's it. This engine won't make ping times irrelevant it can't because the information will get to you faster the less ping meaning you see the guy coming around the corner before he even turns to see you.

I am not saying I won't play the game, but the servers being in one location doesn't mean the player base wont' be split. There will still be multiple servers, so whats the difference if some of those are east coast. The answer is $$

[Tarconus]

100's does not equal 100.

But yeah I agree that too high of a ping is a pain in the ass, but how high is too high? Over 120-150 is annoying, under 200 is livable. Demanding under 100 or bust is just spoiled.

Also having everything in one location is still a bad idea.

Edit: and by annoying I mean I understand if people do not want to play because of it, because honestly getting shot and killed after already being around the corner for a good half second is ridic and many FPS's have coding that allows for pings of 150 or so to kill someone while they've been under cover for a good half second.

Does PS2 have it code like that? Dunno.

Right so we agree somewhat then. I am not saying it has to be under a hundred but when I was in the tribes ascend beta and was getting close to 200 and others were below, getting killed all the time wasn't fun.

They will lose player base if people on the east coast, or wherever is farthest from the location can't hit the 150 or so mark. Over 200 ping when people today are used to playing shooters with p2p connections or on servers very close to them wont' fly.

[Kran De Loy]

Edited to keep the posts compact.

Pretty much exactly. I'm gonna say it again for people skipping ahead in the thread, but servers all in one location is bad. Very Bad Idea. I honestly do not recall seeing any argument on that point specifically anywhere in this thread.

However, the bulk of the arguments going on here tho are rooted in people claiming pings of 130-180 as so high as to make the games unplayable.

That and what got me posting in this thread in the first place was when ElectroFreak and Kaff tried to explain why they were being hysterical the same people they were trying to help got bitchy about some slightly off putting choices of phrase.

[Revanmug]

Somewhat, as I don't want SOE to lose 1 single customer. But really if you want to lose out on playing a truely superb free game because you're being petty then it has no more to do with me. All I did was try to point out that you're acting spoiled.

Also great way to miss out on the first third of my post that you just happened to clip while quoting me.

I won't be playing PS2 for it's graphic and animation since there are better game for that. Immersion? Don't make me laugh. Arma III is what I need for that. Only the gameplay interest me and if the fps part of the gameplay (which is big part of it btw) ain't precise then no, I am not interest.

You keep saying those are petty reason or i'm spoiled but... Where is it SAID that I shouldn't voice my fear about say game? Why should I be force to play a game I don't like? Did you post in every possible thread that someone is acting spoiled because there ain't vehicule animation... there ain't continent capture, That ttk might be too low, etc. etc.

We are talking about something basic for an online game and, even yourself admit it, they took a pretty stupid decision (NOWAIT I didn't fully read your post so forget that!).

All this thread need is an answer and you bring nothing like most people. Don't be surprise by people's reaction.

Yea, good read.

PS2 is said to use a hybrid though, so movement probably wont be authorised by the server.

huh a hybrid server/client base lag comp?!?

Please god no... instant death and dieing behind corners inc. Then again, that style usually favor laggers... Oh well

[Nabeshin]

Don't even... ? what you don't have an argument? I am turning 30 this year I already know my reaction time is no where near when I was 16.

^Truth

It's kinda sad, a lot of times I see people, my mind reacts but my fingers no longer move fast enough to keep up.

[Kran De Loy]

I won't be playing PS2 for it's graphic and animation since there are better game for that. Immersion? Don't make me laugh. Arma III is what I need for that. Only the gameplay interest me and if the fps part of the gameplay (which is big part of it btw) ain't precise then no, I am not interest.

You keep saying those are petty reason or i'm spoiled but... Where is it SAID that I shouldn't voice my fear about say game? Why should I be force to play a game I don't like? Did you post in every possible thread that someone is acting spoiled because there ain't vehicule animation... there ain't continent capture, That ttk might be too low, etc. etc.

We are talking about something basic for an online game and, even yourself admit it, they took a pretty stupid decision (NOWAIT I didn't fully read your post so forget that!).

All this thread need is an answer and you bring nothing like most people. Don't be surprise by people's reaction.

Right. Well. Okay. .. Ugh Bye I guess.

[Phellix]

Many of you are still assuming this is being placed on the west coast, what the fuck? I'm shocked so many are people are jumping to the conclusion that their ping is going to be unplayable and cry WTF SONY SERIOUSLY? I NO PLAY YOUR FREE GAME. Nobody knows anything yet, simmer the fuck down.

[Tarconus]

Many of you are still assuming this is being placed on the west coast, what the fuck? I'm shocked so many are people are jumping to the conclusion that their ping is going to be unplayable and cry WTF SONY SERIOUSLY? I NO PLAY YOUR FREE GAME. Nobody knows anything yet, simmer the fuck down.

We are assuming that because that's where they are located and where the PS1 server is now. Second no matter where it is since it's going to be in one location someone may have a bad ping to it because geographically they are farther away.

[Kran De Loy]

Many of you are still assuming this is being placed on the west coast, what the fuck? I'm shocked so many are people are jumping to the conclusion that their ping is going to be unplayable and cry WTF SONY SERIOUSLY? I NO PLAY YOUR FREE GAME. Nobody knows anything yet, simmer the fuck down.

We are assuming that because that's where they are located and where the PS1 server is now. Second no matter where it is since it's going to be in one location someone may have a bad ping to it because geographically they are farther away.

This. Having a single server cluster in San Diego is just as bad as having a single server cluster in Chicago or Texas. In every situation having a single server cluster anywhere is going to royally screw over a large portion of people somewhere, so having them on either end of the country would be the best (and the most commonly used) solution.

Giving the SOE team the benefit of not having an experience in the matter I'm willing to get word back on people trying it out first. However, I fully this thread in what it was set out to do at the OP, which was raise awareness of SOE's choice of a single server cluster as early as possible so that if the problem needs to be (and it probably will be) correct then at least SOE people will already have a serious heads up about how badly it will need to be done based on how many people have been bitching about it and for how long people have been bitching about it.

[Chronic]

imo 1 server is enough for USA

I have you lost your fucking mind?

[SKYeXile]

huh a hybrid server/client base lag comp?!?

Please god no... instant death and dieing behind corners inc. Then again, that style usually favor laggers... Oh well

lol you expect them to use barbaric full sevrerside code like unreal or halo? god no, this isnt 1999, most games use some sort of prediction or lag compensation like valve use these days, some are full server side like valve, others may trust the client more.

also, people please stop mentioning games like diablo or SC2 or even EVE...lawl?...they're nowhere near as complex or as ping dependant as an FPS or MMORPG.

[Revanmug]

I have seen EG Evil Geniuses (on Twitch) play SC2 on the Korea server from Arizona for practice. Game looked good, not laggy.

Guys, that orange look like an apple because... it's round. Don't compare genre as they are quite different.

[Phellix]

We are assuming that because that's where they are located and where the PS1 server is now. Second no matter where it is since it's going to be in one location someone may have a bad ping to it because geographically they are farther away.


This. Having a single server cluster in San Diego is just as bad as having a single server cluster in Chicago or Texas. In every situation having a single server cluster anywhere is going to royally screw over a large portion of people somewhere, so having them on either end of the country would be the best (and the most commonly used) solution.

"N. American servers will almost certainly be located in the same place."

"almost certainly"

[Revanmug]

lol you expect them to use barbaric full sevrerside code like unreal or halo? god no, this isnt 1999, most games use some sort of prediction or lag compensation like valve use these days, some are full server side like valve, others may trust the client more.


And those actually played better if people were actually quite low on ping.

It is more that when I heard (heavy)client side netcode, bf3 pop immediatement in my mind as something to NOT redo...

[SKYeXile]

And those actually played better if people were actually quite low on ping.

It is more that when I heard (heavy)client side netcode, bf3 pop immediatement in my mind as something to NOT redo...

Yes they did, but having to lead your target by predicting your lag is the only way to stop people from dying around corners on their screen. anyway, im glad they wont be using that code, so will everybody else not playing on a sub 15ms ping.

[Blackwolf]

Really hope this isn't true. 50-60ms is an eternity in most FPS games. This could possibly give west-coast players a noticeable advantage, although it remains to be seen how the client is affected by ping differential.

This post lead me to believe that the greater majority of you are over reacting. Dramatically. But I suppose people tend to do that.

It takes somewhere around 100-400ms for a human being to blink their eyes.

[Kran De Loy]

"N. American servers will almost certainly be located in the same place."

"almost certainly"

Sweet, but that whole sentence is still very worrying and the last 5 words are just wrong entirely.

[SKYeXile]

This post lead me to believe that the greater majority of you are over reacting. Dramatically. But I suppose people tend to do that.

It takes somewhere around 100-400ms for a human being to blink their eyes. Anything under 150ms and you absolutely will not be able to tell the difference. It is pretty much impossible for the human brain to operate quickly enough to note differences at that speed.

As another point of reference, 1ms is 1/1000 of a second. It takes 1000ms to make one second. Your not going to be hampered by ping unless it's over 300, and again you won't notice it unless it's over 150 (and only then if your a cyborg, a ninja, a computer, or an obsessive FPS nerd with the ping counter on so you have yet another potential excuse for dieing).

want to play some UT3 against me? ill host... lets see what your excuse is.

[raidyr]

If you don't notice, or don't acknowledge, a difference between 150 ping and 60 ping then you probably shouldn't be in a thread discussing the ramifications of server location.

+1 OP. Read this last night and had a bit of a laugh with the friend I was hanging out with. The difference of connection quality in regards to hit detection and lag compensation on west coast servers vs central or east coast is very noticeable.

[Karmic Revenge]

I'm not sure you are even worth responding... Hello, is there something in that brain? The idea is to spread the server rather than place 1 big center which is at one extremity of the US.

Guess what... there are other people than you on this continent and you know what is even more shocking... They might want to play without lagging since they aren't living next to you.

I'm quite happy you like your Lag when playing on europeen server. My standard for fps are higher though and it seems I ain't the only one. You got a problem with that?

My point is that the lag is, when a game is coded correctly, irrelevant unless it starts to vastly exceed normal broadband latency.

I play games across the world. I have for years. Technology now is better than it was when I started, and amazingly enough, all those many years ago, I still managed to have fun.

If the lag is such a huge issue for you, play something that has LAN play. (Oh, crap, that's almost NOTHING now because internet broadband penetration is so massive that companies aren't even BOTHERING to make LAN versions of their games anymore . . .)

[Karmic Revenge]

Don't even... ? what you don't have an argument? I am turning 30 this year I already know my reaction time is no where near when I was 16.

Shame you haven't gotten any smarter since then. :(

(FYI: http://www.sizes.com/people/reaction_time.htm . . . so it looks like you're in your prime and had no clue . . . typical . . . ever think about professional athletes and when they peak . . . at around 30?)

[SKYeXile]

With SC2 and WoW it's doable, but still nowhere near optimal. I have played WoW on a 15ms server (located in Amsterdam, 15 mins from where I live) and on a WC US server (Mug'Thol I think) at 180ms. It's just frustrating. This was during the time that Mages couldn't kill Affliction Warlocks unless they could counterspell their 0.5s fel domination summon. It was impossible to do, and my reflexes are not horrible.

I understand you're trying to say that it might not be as bad as it would be with some other games, but it's also completely irrelevant. The question that matters is what the difference will be between playing 180ms and 100ms on a PS2 server. Given the difference that produced in PS1 (which was 100% CSHD), I can't help but expect those 80 extra milliseconds will make it much worse.

its a fucking huge difference, switching from markov to gemini was a huge change, Markov i ping 200ms, its playable yea, but changing to 250-280, with the increased packet loss, its just aids, you really notice the difference, i was never getting kill credit because my packets would arrive way after US people, its just fucking annoying.

but i watch planetside videos and they're so smooth with americans, people die and jsut fal lover, where i would generally effectively be pumping a corpse for of ammo because i havnt got kill confirmation yet.

[Kran De Loy]

Just admit that it's a bad decision for all customers and stop trying to rationalize it. You can't keep lying to yourself forever.

Such a bad desicion. Seriously, this is another one of those times when Higby and/or T-Ray should go find the person responsible and smack them for it.

http://www.portlandmercury.com/images/blogimages/2011/04/25/1303773854-tumblr_lk6sayf35k1qauecro1_250.gif

Sorry for being likened to a midget, but seriously one of the best parts (and characters) of that show.

[Eyeklops]

hes right, i dont know about fully killing somebody before they know what hit them, but you can certainly kill somebody before they react or given 200ms ping, kill them before you get the packet of their reaction.

THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS. Higher bandwidth and all the magic algorithms in the world cannot fix the time skew that happens in favor of the "in motion" attacker vs the "stationary" defender. I am the attacker, and the defender is stationary. I come around a corner, or out of cover and open fire. What I see is the defender sitting still for AT LEAST his ping time. It's not even possible for him to react faster than that because he hasn't even got the packets that I am visible yet. Now if I stay in motion I have a HUGE advantage in that my target was stationary ping+reaction, while I was in motion the entire time. I have an average reaction time of 193ms (http://www.mathsisfun.com/games/reaction-time.html). Think about that. 150MS ping + 200ms reaction = motionless target for 350ms, that a long time in the FPS world.

[Phellix]

Wow, "play something else then"...really? Are you really so daft to think SOE would like it if loads of players decided to play something else?

It's a BAD decision. Particularly for EC US players, as they don't have other options. It's bad for everyone else because they have fewer options too. WC US players can play on a server that's close to home, but what if they're in a clan with people from all over the world? They can't pick something that is acceptable to all anymore; some of their members are simply screwed.

Just admit that it's a bad decision for all customers and stop trying to rationalize it. You can't keep lying to yourself forever.
They haven't confirmed anything yet. Just stop.

[Karmic Revenge]

Wow, "play something else then"...really? Are you really so daft to think SOE would like it if loads of players decided to play something else?

Would SOE prefer people not play their game than to whine and cry and stop and generally turn the atmosphere into something resembling Blizzard's forums?

Maybe. You'd have to ask them.

My general premise here is that if something is going to make you rage so hard you can't see straight you (for your own sake) shouldn't play it.

I am telling you, point blank, that playing PS (with all it's ancient code) over very long distances was absolutely, perfectly, wonderfully enjoyable.

I think that maybe trying it before declaring that the sky is falling down and we are all doomed is in order.

If your choice is between a better developed game (more developers) or a game with better servers (more hardware) which do you choose? Personally, I choose developers. You may have other priorities.

[Malorn]

They haven't said where the servers will be.

Lot of over-reacting in this thread and people making silly assumptions.

[Eyeklops]

I am telling you, point blank, that playing PS (with all it's ancient code) over very long distances was absolutely, perfectly, wonderfully enjoyable.

You must have the reaction time of a highed up sloth if you can stand playing any FPS with very high ping.

[SKYeXile]

Would SOE prefer people not play their game than to whine and cry and stop and generally turn the atmosphere into something resembling Blizzard's forums?

Maybe. You'd have to ask them.

My general premise here is that if something is going to make you rage so hard you can't see straight you (for your own sake) shouldn't play it.

I am telling you, point blank, that playing PS (with all it's ancient code) over very long distances was absolutely, perfectly, wonderfully enjoyable.

I think that maybe trying it before declaring that the sky is falling down and we are all doomed is in order.

If your choice is between a better developed game (more developers) or a game with better servers (more hardware) which do you choose? Personally, I choose developers. You may have other priorities.

Playing BF3 (with all it's modern) over very long distances was absolutely, perfectly, wonderfully enjoyable. But yet, its nothing when compared to playing on a local 30ms server.

[SKYeXile]

They haven't said where the servers will be.

Lot of over-reacting in this thread and people making silly assumptions.

its irrelevant where they plan to be, its the fact that they plan to do it.

[Karmic Revenge]

You must have the reaction time of a highed up sloth.

You got me.

I am also a terrible shot.

Oh no, wait, again that's all those TR blokes with the 1000 round magazines so they might actually kill someone.

I wonder how many of you even know what an LPB vs. HPB is, and how many were HPBs. Those of us who have been playing games for longer than the last couple of years have dealt with far, far worse situations than what a wussy little cross-continental hop places on us these days.

14.4k modems playing Quake or Half-Life, baby. After that it's all sunshine and roses.

You just learn to play differently.

(Of course, some people also like to have excuses for when they die or don;t get a killshot . . . that's your ego. Let it go. It's a game, not life or death.)

[Bags]

To those of you saying "You don't know what they're doing" you're right, we don't. Which is why RadarX should be in here clarifying.

[Karmic Revenge]

Playing BF3 (with all it's modern) over very long distances was absolutely, perfectly, wonderfully enjoyable. But yet, its nothing when compared to playing on a local 30ms server.

And yet at the end of the day you still get to throw bullets at people and run around with your friends. If that's not enough for people, they should consider playing something that is.

I will ask you the same thing. If you had to choose between more developers making the game better, or more hardware on release, making the game more wide-spread, which would you choose?

Money is not infinite. SOE has limited resources. Which would you rather they do with what they've got?

[Karmic Revenge]

To those of you saying "You don't know what they're doing" you're right, we don't. Which is why RadarX should be in here clarifying.

At 10:30PM?

Why? Because you said so?

[Otleaz]

Money is not infinite. SOE has limited resources. Which would you rather they do with what they've got?

How bout some east coast servers so my international clan doesn't completely ignore this game, leaving me to play it alone?

[Bags]

At 10:30PM?

Why? Because you said so?

I made the thread at 3:20pm.

[SKYeXile]

And yet at the end of the day you still get to throw bullets at people and run around with your friends. If that's not enough for people, they should consider playing something that is.

I will ask you the same thing. If you had to choose between more developers making the game better, or more hardware on release, making the game more wide-spread, which would you choose?

Money is not infinite. SOE has limited resources. Which would you rather they do with what they've got?

is this a serious question? given SOEs track record of releasing amazing games then fucking them with continued development im gonna have to go with more server locations, no brainer.

[Karmic Revenge]

I made the thread at 3:20pm.

So in your expert opinion with less than 3 hours left in a "normal" working day (I won't deny the industry is not normal) there should have been a reply by now.

You, knowing nothing of the day's activities or RadarX's whereabouts or responsibilities at present, have determined beyond a reasonable doubt that this should have happened, and BY THE GODS this is not ok . . .

Maybe you should relax and be patient?

If RadarX doesn't know the answer to something there can;t be an answer posted. If for any reason people are really busy in the days after E3 and leading up to Beta (it will be here soon, remember) and don't have time to get a straight answer within a couple of hours, or even a couple of days, that's the way it is.

. . . O.o

And in any case, if that answer comes back and is not what you want to hear I still strongly suggest that you try it and see before you condemn it. *shrug*

[Phellix]

its irrelevant where they plan to be, its the fact that they plan to do it.

Because they can never change their decisions, right?

[Karmic Revenge]

is this a serious question? given SOEs track record of releasing amazing games then fucking them with continued development im gonna have to go with more server locations, no brainer.

EverQuest and EverQuest 2 got worse with time? Even Vanguard which was largely abandoned got better.

I think you're maybe focusing on BFRs? Everyone makes mistakes.

Regardless, your opinion isn't everyone's. I'd prefer they develop the game, release it, then if they have the money and inclination to do so, expand to new datacenters.

Kinda like, oh, I dunno, some other mega-successful MMO . . .

[Karmic Revenge]

Suppose they have money for 20 servers in the US. How much difference would it really make to put 10 of them in the EC vs. all in the same location? It's still the same amount of servers, and maintenance is probably outsourced anyway. It's probably more expensive, but by how much? Nobody knows. The question is if it would outweigh the lower amount of income due to all the people that aren't going to be playing it.

SOE has on-site datacenters in Rancho Bernardo. The rent there is "free" because they already have the site locked down. The bandwidth is already there, and can be moved upwards for far less expenditure than were they to try and do that at a location they do not control.

Either co-location or building of a new datacenter elsewhere is WAY more money.

I think you're just not aware of how much money is actually involved in servers, hosting them, and providing bandwidth to them. That's not a condemnation. Most laypeople do not understand what a cost the hardware side (including staffing, rent, power, contracts with providers, etc.) actually is.

[Malorn]

It doesn't matter man, it's always worse than having multiple options. Either they're on WC, in which case international clans with EU players are screwed, or they're on EC, in which case international clans with Oceanic players are screwed. The fact that they've decided on 1 location is enough to understand that it's going to be worse off.

....or they could be in the Midwest/Texas and have a good ping to both coasts.

Euros are a wash. If you want a good ping you wouldn't choose a server on another continent. At that point it isn't going to be much of a difference between Texas and Virginia.

[Karmic Revenge]

And if we all sit here, religiously drooling over screenshots and gameplay footage and cheering and applauding at everything they do without ever thinking about the possible consequences or letting them know that we're not OK with some of their choices, they'd be more prone to change it for the better, right?

If we all sit here and claim the sky is falling before a) confirmation of a decision and b) actually seeing the decision in action it's no good either.

I'm not saying you can't be concerned. I am saying people should be patient and not make it a bigger thing than it is.

[Khorneholio]

I have an idea. Wait to play the game and see if it's laggy. If it is, then complain.

Isn't it a much better idea to discuss this issue while there's still a chance of affecting change? Once their infrastructure is built, rent paid, and servers humming along, it's going to be damn nigh impossible for SOE to uproot the operation and switch locations.

So, when you say to just wait till we're playing and then ask for change if it's necessary... what you're really saying is we should just wait until it's too late to do anything about it and just hope it all turns out ok.

[SKYeXile]

EverQuest and EverQuest 2 got worse with time? Even Vanguard which was largely abandoned got better.

I think you're maybe focusing on BFRs? Everyone makes mistakes.

Regardless, your opinion isn't everyone's. I'd prefer they develop the game, release it, then if they have the money and inclination to do so, expand to new datacenters.

Kinda like, oh, I dunno, some other mega-successful MMO . . .

im focusing on planetside in general...core combat, CE, hacking expansions, change of pace...and yes BFRs, oh yes...and NGE..you know about NGE right?





Because they can never change their decisions, right?

hopefully they will with 10 pages of RAGE generated in about 7 hours. they wont change anything though if we sit tight and continue to suck down the cock they're serving up.

[Karmic Revenge]

....or they could be in the Midwest/Texas and have a good ping to both coasts.

And worse in Oceania and the Pacific Rim.

Or did you forget about them?

Besides, that's subjective. I bet right now I could get a Speedtest.net test to somewhere on the east coast better than somewhere in the midwest.

There is no perfect solution for everyone.

[Phellix]

Suppose they have money for 20 servers in the US. How much difference would it really make to put 10 of them in the EC vs. all in the same location? It's still the same amount of servers, and maintenance is probably outsourced anyway. It's probably more expensive, but by how much? Nobody knows. The question is if it would outweigh the lower amount of income due to all the people that aren't going to be playing it.

People can huff and puff all they want about not playing but when it comes down to it it's a free game, they have a plan and i'm sure they've already taken every consideration into that plan before they even said anything about the POSSIBILITY of only one server location. We simply don't have enough information on what their plan is and people need to calm the fuck down. Beta hasn't even started yet and you guys are already making the decision you're not gonna play if it isn't to your liking.

[Phellix]

hopefully they will with 10 pages of RAGE generated in about 7 hours. they wont change anything though if we sit tight and continue to suck down the cock they're serving up.

They haven't served anything.

[Karmic Revenge]

Isn't it a much better idea to discuss this issue while there's still a chance of affecting change? Once their infrastructure is built, rent paid, and servers humming along, it's going to be damn nigh impossible for SOE to uproot the operation and switch locations.

I have news for you.

It's already built. The rent is already paid. SOE has had their datacenters on campus for over a decade. Starting with EverQuest.

So, by your logic, everyone in this thread should actually give up.

Personally I think everyone in this thread should wait for Beta and see what it's like. Then we feedback. You know, like Beta Testers are supposed to do.

[SKYeXile]

People can huff and puff all they want about not playing but when it comes down to it it's a free game, they have a plan and i'm sure they've already taken every consideration into that plan before they even said anything about the POSSIBILITY of only one server location. We simply don't have enough information on what their plan is and people need to calm the fuck down. Beta hasn't even started yet and you guys are already making the decision you're not gonna play if it isn't to your liking.
what does it been a free game have to do with somebody huffing and puffing about not playing? I'm not seeing the connection. you might have an agrument if it was B2P and they already have your money, but been F2P they want you to continue to play, people arnt going to continue to play if the experience is shit.

[Malorn]

And worse in Oceania and the Pacific Rim.

Or did you forget about them?

Besides, that's subjective. I bet right now I could get a Speedtest.net test to somewhere on the east coast better than somewhere in the midwest.

There is no perfect solution for everyone.

Again, you're across an ocean. Difference between San Diego and Texas is a drop in the bucket at that point.

And you're right. There is no perfect solution. But there's a pretty good one in the middle of Texas.

[Karmic Revenge]

im focusing on planetside in general...core combat, CE, hacking expansions, change of pace...and yes BFRs, oh yes...and NGE..you know about NGE right?

NGE from SWG? The one that came about because LA was determined to have their game be WoW before there was a WoW? A licensor pushing their licensee around and it turning out badly? That never happens . . .

As a general rule SOE has done a good job with their products and making them consistently better over time. For my money both EQ and EQ2 are phenomenal titles. I played them for years and enjoyed myself even as things changed.

hopefully they will with 10 pages of RAGE generated in about 7 hours. they wont change anything though if we sit tight and continue to suck down the cock they're serving up.

It's not all rage, plenty of it is people like myself who are pointing out that patience is a virtue, as is first hand experience.

[TheDrone]

Wow.. this thread is just.. wow...

Okay so first off, yes having all the servers in the NA in one place is a very bad idea. Because it's a very bad idea Bags wants to up awareness about this Very Bad Idea. And I completely agree that having them all in once place would be a Very Bad Idea. Getting awareness of the choice up is a good thing if only so that SOE accountants don't get blind sided if the decision to save money and only buy space in one location for the servers doesn't work out.

From here on I'm more on the sides of NO ONE ELSE except maybe the Aussies or the Euros that want to play on NA servers.

Pings, packet loss, jitter, excreta, excreta.. are only conditions based originally from that original point which imo isn't actually the issue.

I should say that I live about 100 miles north of San Diego, but I using both speedtest.net and pingtest.net sites I get pings to Austin TX at 65ms, 0 Jitter (w/e that is), Brooklyn NY at 98ms 1ms jitter, and Chicago IL at 76ms and 2ms jitter, and Maidenhead, England at 186ms and 1ms jitter.

I frequently play Source based FPS games (which supposedly are notoriously bad at networking) and anything with less than 200 I'm fine. When it goes over 120-150 it's annoying but livable, and again that is with a game built with a supposedly terrible networking base code.

I can see that some people are more sensitive to ping than others and I'm seriously not trying to be rude here, but seriously stop being such fucking babies about it. So what you're more sensitive to higher ping just means that you've got more twitch than other people.

Also I know that some people aren't reading this post anymore because I was suddenly rude, but telling Kaffis and Electrofreak off for actually trying to help alleviate your worries, even if it was done in such a way as to possibly be taken as rude only reenforces the image that you're just being a bunch of spoiled whiny brats.

Edit: Sometimes you need to be a complete asshole to get people to see reason and honestly I hate doing that. :/

Excellent reply.



Honestly, the amount of childish hysteria and hyperbole in this thread is mind-boggling.

There is as of yet not enough information to make a correct assessment of the effect this will have on people's playing experience.

I live in western Europe and I have a 168 ping 1ms jitter to LA. So, yea. That's actually playable.

But god forbid someone who knows networks actually comes in and is only slightly (far less than I would be) annoyed by the high-pitched whinging.

This doesn't even slightly cut it: :rolleyes:




This doesn't mean I agree to use only one NA server location, tho. Which is btw, "almost certain".

[Malorn]

I somehow feel responsible for digging up the RadarX quote from a few weeks ago that started all this. Should have let that dragon lay.

Seems what we really need here is some clarity. Speculation has run wild. Once we have the actual facts we might be able to have a more meaningful discussion.

[Karmic Revenge]

Again, you're across an ocean. Difference between San Diego and Texas is a drop in the bucket at that point.

And you're right. There is no perfect solution. But there's a pretty good one in the middle of Texas.

I just ran some random tests:

San Diego 1 85ms 5Mbps
San Diego 2 11ms 30Mbps

Austin 145ms 27Mbps
Fort Worth 95ms 12Mbps

Richmond 103ms 5Mbps
Boston 98ms 16Mbps

So I can get bad ping and slow speed nearby. I can get worse ping in the middle of the country than on the opposite side.

These are literally just servers I picked at random for being where I am, halfway across the country, and all the way across the country. End result? No massive difference.

(Just as an additional note, I did Brisbane for a laugh after I posted, 211ms 5Mbps.)

[Phellix]

what does it been a free game have to do with somebody huffing and puffing about not playing? I'm not seeing the connection. you might have an agrument if it was B2P and they already have your money, but been F2P they want you to continue to play, people arnt going to continue to play if the experience is shit.

My point is it's a free game and the money they'll be getting from players is from people who continue to play, you're right, but what you missed was that they've already considered the possibility of losing players because they can't deal with a "150 ping" .30 delay.

I'm in LA and pinged 87 to new york, 88 in alaska, and 175 in france, i've played almost every FPS out there on not just US but EU servers as well(mainly for better modded servers) and the difference really isn't that noticeable. We don't even know what their decisions are, this thread should honestly be frozen until beta when people realize SOE has already taken this into account.

Edit: Also maybe the thread title should be changed because it's not confirmed, really misleading.

[Malorn]

I did a quick speedtest.net go at a few locations. I live in Seattle.

Seattle 5ms
San Diego 45ms
Dallas 55ms
New York City 76ms
Miami 75ms

London 155ms
Berlin 195ms
Melbourne 195ms
Sydney 195ms

EU/AU was a wash about the same.

Difference between east coast and west coast was 30ms.

Clearly that 30 ms calls for two different datacenters!

So much exaggeration on this thread it's ridiculous.

[Karmic Revenge]

Difference between east coast and west coast was 30ms.

Clearly that 30 ms calls for two different datacenters!

So much exaggeration on this thread it's ridiculous.

Can you at least admit that coupled with what I already posted maybe it's silly to say that we really need it to be in Texas? (Let's assume it will cost more money . . . is that money really worth the *maybe* better ping for some people on the east coast and central and worse for other locations?)

[Malorn]

I think you need more tests to determine that. Seattle is probably fairly well plugged into the series of tubes.

Though it doesn't seem to much matter whether it is east, west, or central, so hosting where it is most convenient/cheapest for SOE makes sense. Having the servers right with the devs seems like a good idea. You know if there's a problem they can walk over and kick it a few times. Seems like patches would go faster also when you aren't working remotely.

But last I remember San Diego had rolling brownouts, so maybe not the best place for servers. Or have they solved that whole SoCal power problem by now?

[Karmic Revenge]

Yeah because routing is always the same regardless of where the signal is coming from. :rolleyes:
...

From Amsterdam:
100ms to Boston and NY.
177ms to Palo Alto and San diego.

So you're a Euro whose regional datacenters will likely be in Germany complaining that the US servers will be in San Diego?

Ah well, I am likely playing on an EU server anyway since my outfit is primarily EU. Amazingly enough I will not be crying that my ping is too high and I can't play . . .

[Karmic Revenge]

But last I remember San Diego had rolling brownouts, so maybe not the best place for servers. Or have they solved that whole SoCal power problem by now?

Uh, they don't cut power to major datacenters, or those datacenters all have backups. When was the last time you heard of EQ, EQ2, or any other game going down for poweroutages?

I have no idea if the one that took out ALL of SoCal (that was a blackout) took them down, but that can happen ANYWHERE in the world. Including Texas.

[Malorn]

Yeah because routing is always the same regardless of where the signal is coming from. :rolleyes:
...

From Amsterdam:
100ms to Boston and NY.
177ms to Palo Alto and San diego.

Pardon me for being a callous American ass, but what's your ping to the Euro servers?

Frankly I don't care if the euros want to play on American servers (we are awesome afterall), but they should be optimizing North American servers for people who play in North America.

And if you're in North America, the server location doesn't seem to make a lick of difference anymore. From my location to Miami is nearly the longest distance across the continental US and it's only a 30ms difference from San Diego.

Crazy thought I know. North Americans playing on North American servers. Where do I get this stuff?

[Karmic Revenge]

On the brown/blackout . . .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolling_blackout#United_States

Funnily enough, Texas is right in there with California. ;)

[Phellix]

From Amsterdam:


Welp, i'm done here.

[Malorn]

I'd prefer not splitting the north American player base on time zone just so a few random euros that want to play on US servers get the best possible pings.

For a north American server, euro pings are obviously no the priority. Nor should they be.

[Phellix]

I pinged 15ms on Werner because Werner was in Amsterdam. On German Pro-Sieben server I will probably ping about 30-45ms. Pinged 100ms on Emerald (NY) and 180ms on Markov (SD).

I still play with AC and we now have some more European players as well. East Coast would just be much better for everyone because of that. There are plenty of clans that also comprise EU and US players. WoW bridged that gap even more than Planetside 1 did.

We're talking about the benefits of having multiple server clusters vs. a single cluster. Multiple clusters would obviously also be better for US players, because they can then choose between East and West. It could mean the difference between 100ms and 20ms. I actually pinged lower on Emerald than some Americans, because it was very close to the North Atlantic pipeline, allowing me to skip most of the messed up inland US infrastructure and routing.

Not to sound like an ass here but what your asking for is for NA servers to cater to EU players, and I can understand that clans want to play together, nothings stopping them still. BUT it's not really fair to ask that because as a west coaster there's nothing you can do about my ping to EU, because well that's just how the internet works. Sometimes you just gotta deal, or at the very least figure out how many NA/EU players you have and decide together whether or not choosing a EU server would benefit your clan more based on your NA members locations.

[Karmic Revenge]

I pinged 15ms on Werner because Werner was in Amsterdam. On German Pro-Sieben server I will probably ping about 30-45ms. Pinged 100ms on Emerald (NY) and 180ms on Markov (SD).

I played on Werner from Amsterdam. I played on some US server (can't remember which one, sorry, Werner was where I spent most of my playtime) from Amsterdam. I played on whatever US server that was from San Diego as well.

It made no difference to my gameplay. None. Each time it was PlanetSide. Each time I got killed by people and killed people. Each time I got the drop on folks, or they got the drop on me.

But like I've already said earlier in the thread, I don't constantly seek excuses for why I died or didn't score a killshot. I simply keep playing. I am convinced that a lot of people look at ping as some kind of excuse for why they are playing badly. I can tell you from the days of playing at 450-500 ping on dialup, these kind of ping times don't matter nearly as much as people want them to . . .

(True story, someone in an MW3 game I was playing in complained that X person was getting all their kills because their ping was lower than everyone else's . . . it was 40, the guy complaining had a 55 . . .)

[Karmic Revenge]

I'd prefer not splitting the north American player base on time zone just so a few random euros that want to play on US servers get the best possible pings.

My feeling is that I'd prefer servers be global. 24/7 mayhem.

We are apparently not yet at that point. Maybe when PS3 comes out.

[Phellix]

My feeling is that I'd prefer servers be global. 24/7 mayhem.

We are apparently not yet at that point. Maybe when PS3 comes out.

Ah, hopefully we're still alive for that day

[OutlawDr]

I live in Houston...

...so it better be Houston :mad::evil:

[Stew]

From AUS to West Coast would be around 200ping which is good, whereas over on East Coast i'd say 260-300 area... Europe is 330-360...

DUde 200 ping is laggy as hell

we are use to play in servers east coast at 20 to 60 ping

if you get use to play in horrible LAGGY games we are not

and if you like Laggy randomness we dont

SO hell no this as to be change if its true

LAG = kill fps

[SKYeXile]

Yea i dont get why people are raging on Elcyco, yea yea, you can probably que up the line "first world problem" in his particular case, but having servers spread east and west coast benefits everybody and disadvantages none cept maybe SOE...but we're paying them.

[SKYeXile]

DUde 200 ping is laggy as hell

we are use to play in servers east coast at 20 to 60 ping

if you get use to play in horrible LAGGY games we are not

and if you like Laggy randomness we dont

SO hell no this as to be change if its true

LAG = kill fps

You are aware your speaking to the wrong person, every aussie would prefer split east and west coast servers meaning you also could get that better ping, because playing with 100 ping would mean, THINGS ARE SPIRALING OUT OF CONTROL IN THE UNPLAYABLE TERRIBLE LAG.

[GuyFawkes]

I played on werner, but moved to emerald mainly to escape the constant plasma spam and (usually) higher populations . Since I often work until 9/10pm in UK , things were dying off in europe ,and east coast US its like dinner time and things are just kicking off.

Not sure if it will be so good if Im forced to play on ''Markov'' all the time. Occasionally people may warp (to me) that I could put down to ping. On flip side I used to occasionally be sent tells that I was warping on their screens and be accused as hacking when on my screen it would be normal.

Will euro players be forced to play on euro server this time? would break up some good outfits .

[Phellix]

DUde 200 ping is laggy as hell

we are use to play in servers east coast at 20 to 60 ping

if you get use to play in horrible LAGGY games we are not

and if you like Laggy randomness we dont

SO hell no this as to be change if its true

LAG = kill fps

Where are you at, Stew

[Phellix]

Whether the difference will be serious will depend on the kind of netcode they're using. In Planetside 1 it didn't matter a lot for US players. 20ms was perfect, and 80ms was doable. 180ms was not. Still, East Coast players ended up on East Coast servers because they were given the choice, and nobody's going to argue with -60ms of latency. It's completely obvious that having East and West coast clusters will be better for everyone, not just Europeans and Aussies.

Maybe you're all solo whores or don't care about the people you play with, but many do. Many international clans have their eyes set on this game and would like it to allow them to play together without being hampered by latency.

If Hi-Rez can do it with T:A, why can't SOE do it with PS2?

People from all around the world are still playing PS1 on one server, i don't see the problem, it's obviously still fun for them.

[Malorn]

Many international clans have their eyes set on this game and would like it to allow them to play together without being hampered by latency.

International clans can't ever be perfectly satisfied, because there will be Euros, Aussies, and Americans and you can't give awesome pings to all of them AND still have them all on the same server. All you can do is find something that's not hideous. Like some place over Texas, where you can bring the average ping times for the extreme cases down about 30ms rather than have some people with better and others with significantly worse.

Not splitting the servers up is also better for international clans. No east-west debate where the Euros and the Aussies fight it out over which one is more important for the clan. One server location, one choice. Simple. Maybe not awesome for everyone but Awesome for everyone was never an option to begin with for an international clan.

If there's one server location things get a lot easier. Sucks for you maybe if your clan has no aussies, but they aren't catering the server location for your clan's sole benefit. Many clans have aussies and Euros alike, such as The Enclave. I like the prospect of something in the middle so it's reasonable for everyone in the outfit. It's fair.

Most of the people happy most of the time. That's the best they can do.

[Karmic Revenge]

International clans can't ever be perfectly satisfied, because there will be Euros, Aussies, and Americans and you can't give awesome pings to all of them AND still have them all on the same server. All you can do is find something that's not hideous. Like some place over Texas, where you can bring the average ping times for the extreme cases down about 30ms rather than have some people with better and others with significantly worse.

No matter where you put the datacenter it will be better or worse for someone. Texas is no better than New York or San Diego in that respect.

If we're trying to be as fair as possible we should put it in a shack in Siberia so we're all screwed.

If SOE is hosting the servers in San Diego they are doing so for reasons which are deeper than trying to piss you off. My money is on money.

[WNxThentar]

First off your "twitch" is your reaction time. Ping is how quickly you see something on your screen, then the twitch comes in. So the person with low ping and low twitch is going to be on a much better ground than anyone else.

Second, your ping is based on your connection and how your isp routes traffic not everyone's situation will be the same.

Lets put it this way me and you have the same reaction time, or "twitch" to a car stopping in front of us. We set up one car to have the break lights turn on after 50 ms of pressing on them and the other one after 200 ms of pressing on them. Who is going to stop before hitting the car and who is going to hit the car? That's what ping is it's not how fast you react to the situation it's seeing it before the other player does.

But PS1 and PS2 mitigate the ping by using CSHD. This means you and I run into each other at a corner and I have a ping of 200 you have a ping of 50. Sure you have a 150ms drop on me.

But in most situations you'll find the CSHD kicks in. You don't have to factor in lead time because your ping. Before you bitch ... play it and see. Then again people will still blame being crap on ping even if it isn't the real issue.

[Pella]

What you Yanks fail to realize is that most modern games are Peer 2 Peer. Where playing a game competitively, Your ping makes a huge difference and gives you a much better advantage over someone with a much higher Ping than yourself.

Planetside 2, will be like planetside 1. Hosted on dedicated servers.

So in a nutshell if your getting 150/200 ping it wont make that much of a difference fighting someone with a 20ms. I play planetside 1 now with 200/250Ping and honestly i wouldn't see any difference if it was 30. And anyone that tells you differently is an idiot and is just using there ping as an excuse for there aim.

Have a read through the wiki on game servers. And stop the crying please.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_server

[SKYeXile]

I played on werner, but moved to emerald mainly to escape the constant plasma spam and (usually) higher populations . Since I often work until 9/10pm in UK , things were dying off in europe ,and east coast US its like dinner time and things are just kicking off.

Not sure if it will be so good if Im forced to play on ''Markov'' all the time. Occasionally people may warp (to me) that I could put down to ping. On flip side I used to occasionally be sent tells that I was warping on their screens and be accused as hacking when on my screen it would be normal.

Will euro players be forced to play on euro server this time? would break up some good outfits .

I would HIGHLY doubt warping would be an issue in PS2, they should not be using the same code that predicts movement(not as the primary code anyway) and if by some chance they do still use it, the tick rate would have been upped significantly from planetsides 5 to a more friendly +15.
____

Anyway, the foreseeable issues i see with playing with a high ping is:

> Dying around corners more often, this goes both ways BTW playing against people with a high ping will mean you die around corners because on their screen you died in LOS, your 5ms ping will do you no good here if somebody else has 300.
> Increased delay on activation of things, while i expect most things to be still predicted, if your medpack or shield packet hasn't got to the server before somebodys kill packet, you dead, you just don't know it yet.
> increased Bullshit, ever had it where somebody is facing another direction but they're hitting you? this is because on of you has a high ping.
> increased TTK, typically a target wont appear dead on your screen until you get confirmation from the server a target is dead. so alot of the time you will waste those few vital miliseconds shooting at something that is effectively already dead.

Also i wont be the one crying when im killed because of lag, you will be the ones(again) crying at me because i killed you around corners or you effectively saw yourself gibed because my packets arrived at once. You might not see yourself as dead before you can react, but thing is, you just don't know you're dead yet.

I'm simply trying to save your tears here people, help me help you.

[Malorn]

Aussies can play on the NA servers. Seems plausible that the servers will be in San Diego or thereabouts, which won't be terrible for Aussies. Even if its in the midwest it's nbd. No worse than the Euros. I found it intersting that in Seattle I got the same ping to Berlin as I did Sydney, so even if its on the west coast it doesn't seem like Euros will have any worse pings than the Aussies. So perhaps West coast is actually the most balanced place to be.

[Phellix]

^ This. Having East/West Coasts of USA and Canada on one NA server. Guarantees a fun 24/7 game. EU will have their own popular server. Don't know what the Aussies going to do though, maybe they need to learn Chinese. (:

From LA to Sydney I get a 188 ping so it wouldn't be unplayable for Aussies, better than anywhere else in the US for them that's for sure

Edit: Malorn. Stop that, you're scaring me

[Bags]

Have a read through the wiki on game servers. And stop the crying please.


1.) raise legitimate concern and ask for clarification
2.) fanboys arrive and call us immature kids and tell us to stop crying because we dared to question SOE
3.) :rolleyes:

What happened to this site?

[Pella]

1.) raise legitimate concern and ask for clarification
2.) fanboys arrive and call is immature kids tell us to stop crying because we dared to question SOE
3.) :rolleyes:

What happened to this site?

My post was constructive. And these Forums has turned into Whineside from people that are making judgements on a game they have not played yet.

And i wouldn't class someone as a immature kid for pointing out that there's allot of Whining/QQ/Crying in this thread.

[Bags]

My post was constructive. And these Forums has turned into Whineside from people that are making judgements on a game they have not played yet.

And i wouldn't class someone as a immature kid for pointing out that there's allot of Whining/QQ/Crying in this thread.

This isn't a whine thread.

And I never classed anyone as an immature kid, please do not put words in my mouth or I will report you for trolling.

[Levente]

http://hotnerdgirl.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/183434_166560253393289_119617241420924_308971_1486 864_n.jpg

i knew something was coming to piss me off. it all sounded too good until this. No servers in Europe seriously? what were they thinking? :lol:

[Bags]

http://hotnerdgirl.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/183434_166560253393289_119617241420924_308971_1486 864_n.jpg

i knew something was coming to piss me off. it all sounded too good until this. No servers in Europe seriously? what were they thinking? :lol:

Sorry if my title mislead you, there will be EU server. This is just regarding USA servers.

[Pella]

This isn't a whine thread.

And I never classed anyone as an immature kid, please do not put words in my mouth or I will report you for trolling.

2.) fanboys arrive and call is immature kids tell us to stop crying because we dared to question SOE.

Well next time, Sort your grammar. As the above could imply differently.

[Bags]

adasd

[Karmic Revenge]

I'm simply trying to save your tears here people, help me help you.

I shed no tears, Barney.

[Karmic Revenge]

This isn't a whine thread.

And I never classed anyone as an immature kid, please do not put words in my mouth or I will report you for trolling.

Uh.

Isn't that the same as saying "I'm gonna tell teacher . . ."

I mean if you don't want the shoe to fit, stop putting it on. ;)

[Karmic Revenge]

Aussies can play on the NA servers. Seems plausible that the servers will be in San Diego or thereabouts, which won't be terrible for Aussies. Even if its in the midwest it's nbd. No worse than the Euros. I found it intersting that in Seattle I got the same ping to Berlin as I did Sydney, so even if its on the west coast it doesn't seem like Euros will have any worse pings than the Aussies. So perhaps West coast is actually the most balanced place to be.

What did I say! :)

[Ant001]

It's the same debate with every new game that comes out.
If it's hosted on dedicated servers then no matter what tech is used to compensate for high ping the fact is, if people have a delay at all then they wont play it.
Ping DOES make a huge difference in gameplay. Anyone with any experience in competitive play just wont play with pings over 90. Say what you want and baffle people with science but at the end of the day ping "delay" makes the game shit.

Sorry I forgot to add that the present Planetside seems more playable because of the spammy weapons and long arsed TTK. Planetside 2 is more like bf so ping WILL matter.

I know we will have a dedicated European server so I'm not to worried about it because I ping under 60 anywhere in the EU. But if I was east coast US I would not be happy at all right now.

Just checked from the U.K. to L.A on 100 meg fibre I get 174 ping average. Looks like I will not be playing on the U.S. servers from here lol.

[Malorn]

What did I say! :)

Hey hey, I had to consider all the angles first.

US doesn't really matter.

Euros have their own servers, but if they want to play on US they'll just have to deal with whatever ping there is.

Aussies will probably be decent on NA servers. Don't know if they'll have their own.

Fairly straightforward and reasonable once you cut through all the jibber jabber.

[SKYeXile]

whining has always got things changed in the past, some people are so good at it they went onto make careers out of it.

http://tinypic.com/player.php?v=2h88zeh&s=6

in the tradition of Planetside, LET US COMPLAIN.

[Phellix]

It's the same debate with every new game that comes out.
If it's hosted on dedicated servers then no matter what tech is used to compensate for high ping the fact is, if people have a delay at all then they wont play it.
Ping DOES make a huge difference in gameplay. Anyone with any experience in competitive play just wont play with pings over 90. Say what you want and baffle people with science but at the end of the day ping "delay" makes the game shit.

Sorry I forgot to add that the present Planetside seems more playable because of the spammy weapons and long arsed TKK. Planetside 2 is more like bf so ping WILL matter.

I know we will have a dedicated European server so I'm not to worried about it because I ping under 60 anywhere in the EU. But if I was east coast US I would not be happy at all right now.

it's 87 ping from la to new york, not that big of a deal

[SKYeXile]

it's 87 ping from la to new york, not that big of a deal

its only 87 from NY to Paris and another 87 to Moscow, lets host them there then.

[Pella]

It's the same debate with every new game that comes out.
If it's hosted on dedicated servers then no matter what tech is used to compensate for high ping the fact is, if people have a delay at all then they wont play it.
Ping DOES make a huge difference in gameplay. Anyone with any experience in competitive play just wont play with pings over 90. Say what you want and baffle people with science but at the end of the day ping "delay" makes the game shit.

Sorry I forgot to add that the present Planetside seems more playable because of the spammy weapons and long arsed TKK. Planetside 2 is more like bf so ping WILL matter.

I know we will have a dedicated European server so I'm not to worried about it because I ping under 60 anywhere in the EU. But if I was east coast US I would not be happy at all right now.

I played BF1/2/3 and many other FPS competitively at a fairly high level. And yes i wouldn't play a competitive match with a ping if it was over 60.

But Planetside is totally different beast. You cannot compare it to BF3 they are hosted and networked completely different.

[SKYeXile]

I played BF1/2/3 and many other FPS competitively at a fairly high level. And yes i wouldn't play a competitive match with a ping if it was over 60.

But Planetside is totally different beast. You cannot compare it to BF3 they are hosted and networked completely different.

i think you will find they're not since mhigby is quoted as saying it uses a hybird CS/server model much like BF3.

[Malorn]

Dear SOE,

Please separate the North American player base into East and West coast so players not in North America can have slightly better pings.

Thanks,
Handful of Euros

[Phellix]

its only 87 from NY to Paris and another 87 to Moscow, lets host them there then.

Somehow I find that hard to believe. Even if it was, you're still leaving aussies with nobody except asia or 260~+ ping

[SKYeXile]

Somehow I find that hard to believe. Even if it was, you're still leaving aussies with nobody except asia or 260~+ ping

*facepalm*

<--Aussie.

[Corpse]

I wonder what would have happened if SOE had kept quiet on this matter and had just released the game with that one NA server.
I got a feeling that we wouldn't even have this discussion, especially if people can't easily see their ping in-game.

[Phellix]

*facepalm*

<--Aussie.

-_- why u trolling me

[Sabot]

Nah they have to release that info sooner or later... better they do it now so people can vent and rage and plead and beg for a few weeks. Then things will calm down...

[Pella]

i think you will find they're not since mhigby is quoted as saying it uses a hybird CS/server model much like BF3.

Thats just mixing client and server-side hit reg which yes BF3 uses. But the whole netcode is the big difference.

[Kran De Loy]

But last I remember San Diego had rolling brownouts, so maybe not the best place for servers. Or have they solved that whole SoCal power problem by now?

Dunno about San Diego much, but iirc it was because of something really bizare, like the electric companies were selling the electricity to out of state and shunting it off there.

When I first heard that I thought they were full of shit, but it being California and all I really have no idea if it's true or not.

Also we havn't had a brown out in years as far as I know.

I'd prefer not splitting the north American player base on time zone just so a few random euros that want to play on US servers get the best possible pings.

For a north American server, euro pings are obviously no the priority. Nor should they be.

International clans can't ever be perfectly satisfied, because there will be Euros, Aussies, and Americans and you can't give awesome pings to all of them AND still have them all on the same server. All you can do is find something that's not hideous. Like some place over Texas, where you can bring the average ping times for the extreme cases down about 30ms rather than have some people with better and others with significantly worse.

Not splitting the servers up is also better for international clans. No east-west debate where the Euros and the Aussies fight it out over which one is more important for the clan. One server location, one choice. Simple. Maybe not awesome for everyone but Awesome for everyone was never an option to begin with for an international clan.

If there's one server location things get a lot easier. Sucks for you maybe if your clan has no aussies, but they aren't catering the server location for your clan's sole benefit. Many clans have aussies and Euros alike, such as The Enclave. I like the prospect of something in the middle so it's reasonable for everyone in the outfit. It's fair.

Most of the people happy most of the time. That's the best they can do.

Are you listening to yo- Wait of course you are. Dammit Malorn why do you have to be right about so many different things but so extremely and utterly wrong about this?

Of course international clans can never be perfectly satisfied. Though as you said yourself that isn't even the point for international clans. All they want is a place that's good enough. You're right on all those points.

Where you're completely wrong is in thinking that since they can not be completely satisfied than trying to satisfy them at all is entirely pointless. That's a pretty bigoted thing to even think. Being in the US and playing on servers located in the US does not mean you're not an international player. Playing on a server no matter it's location makes you an international player and there many more people within NA than just myself who will be playing PS2 as international players. To think otherwise is just naive.

And even all of THAT is not the point of this thread. Everyone keeps getting side tracked with the Ping this or Location that. The problem is the possibility of a SINGLE server location.

All we're trying to be sure of is that there is the option for people to go either WC or EC.

Harken back to the Region Lock thread, one of (if not thee) biggest reasons that people griped about that was they did not want to be stuck to one server, they wanted to be able to play with their friends wherever those friends may be. I refuse, adamantly, to allow region locking in any form to happen without me at least trying to stop it, no matter how it comes about.

With a single server location in the NA it's almost the same exact problem as region locking was and is just as terrible an idea no matter what the excuse as region locking was for exactly the same reasons.

I know you're TR but damn, dude.

Where are you at, Stew
I'd like to know as well, but for entirely different reasons.

P.S. It's because I want to murder him.

[Corpse]

Nah they have to release that info sooner or later... better they do it now so people can vent and rage and plead and beg for a few weeks. Then things will calm down...

My point was more that people would probably not notice anything.
Of course the info will be released at some point, but there would probably a lot less people complaining.

Although, now that I think about it, the people complaining would still be the same ones as in this thread right now.

OK, never mind I said anything, carry on venting and raging over one simple sentence everyone!
Still, I do think that if people do have major issues with the one central server, the netcode is more at fault than the fact that the servers are in just one location.

[Kran De Loy]

Didn't want to bother editing this in to the last post.

Dear SOE,

Please separate the North American player base into East and West coast so players not in North America can have slightly better pings.

Thanks,
Handful of Euros

Dear Malorn,

Please limit the total number of people willing to play Planetside 2 in NA to less than 6000 people.

Thanks.

[Toppopia]

Am i reading this thread correctly? Are some of you complaining about 80ms ping? You people make me laugh. How about you realise that you can't have a perfect connection, and you guys saying i won't play if it is more than 50ms?? You are ridiculous!! I can still go pretty good in games of 200ms ping so if i can go good with that and i consider myself and average skilled player. Then all you skilled people should still be awesome.

Now that my rant is out of the way. It is always good having choices for servers, because i wouldn't want only east coast servers or that would increase my ping by 50ms and that is a big no no to some of you, so as long as there is west coast servers then i don't care much. I would love a Australia server but that will probably not happen and it would stop me from playing with my American friends. So all of you complaining about ping, stop complaining and think about how lucky you are to get less than 100ms and think about the poor souls who get 100ms+ ping.

[Kran De Loy]

Am i reading this thread correctly? Are some of you complaining about 80ms ping? You people make me feel very annoyed. How about you people realise that you can't have a perfect connection, and you guys saying i won't play if it is more than 50ms?? You are ridiculous!! I can still go pretty good in games of 200ms ping so if i can go good with that and i consider myself and average skilled player. Then all you skilled people should still be awesome.

Now that my rant is out of the way. It is always good having choices for servers, because i wouldn't only east coast servers or that would increase my ping by 50ms and that is a big no no to some of you, so as long as there is west coast servers then i don't care much. I would love a Australia server but that will probably not happen and it would stop me from playing with my American friends. So all of you complaining about ping, stop complaining and think about how lucky you are to get less than 100ms and think about the poor souls who get 100ms+ ping.
Thank you,

Ping issue doesn't matter, I agree with you on that.

Forcing a single server location is the issue, tho so please lets try to keep it with that.

[Bags]

Except the ping issue does matter to a lot of us. Saying it doesn't matter doesn't change that.

[Kran De Loy]

Except the ping issue does matter to a lot of us. Saying it doesn't matter doesn't change that.

If you had the option to pick between EC and WC would the ping still matter?

[SKYeXile]

Thats just mixing client and server-side hit reg which yes BF3 uses. But the whole netcode is the big difference.

i imagine so, but end result would be the same(a hit on your screen is a hit) things like killing people around corners are unavoidable, id ithink SOE's code to be much more reliable than BF's though, that thing is a mess of problems.

[SKYeXile]

I don't see how it would "separate" the players base Malorn. They'd be just as separated if all the servers were in one location. We're not asking for people to be deported, we're asking for them to have choices. As in FREEDOM. The American way. FREEDOM. I will insert the word FREEDOM randomly throughout all these sentences to appeal to your greatest weakness. FREEDOM is good for all. You can never have enough FREEDOM. More server locations means more FREEDOM. Fewer server locations means less FREEDOM, which is bad because FREEDOM is good.

See, it's in the interest of everyone who values FREEDOM. Such as yourself, or any other hard-working, decent, Godfearing American/European/Australian citizen that donates money to charity/volunteer organizations.

This game is going to have much more players than Planetside 1, because it's FREE (as in FREEDOM (http://stallman.org/rms-bw.jpeg)). All these FREEDOM loving people would be better off and more willing to pay if they could play on lag-free(dom) servers. It's not just about the Euro's or the Aussie's, FREEDOM is for everyone.

I'm loling IRL right now.

[Pella]

i imagine so, but end result would be the same(a hit on your screen is a hit) things like killing people around corners are unavoidable, id ithink SOE's code to be much more reliable than BF's though, that thing is a mess of problems.

Well hopefully. Considering the size of Planetside its not all that bad.

Originally Posted by elfailo View Post
I don't see how it would "separate" the players base Malorn. They'd be just as separated if all the servers were in one location. We're not asking for people to be deported, we're asking for them to have choices. As in FREEDOM. The American way. FREEDOM. I will insert the word FREEDOM randomly throughout all these sentences to appeal to your greatest weakness. FREEDOM is good for all. You can never have enough FREEDOM. More server locations means more FREEDOM. Fewer server locations means less FREEDOM, which is bad because FREEDOM is good.

See, it's in the interest of everyone who values FREEDOM. Such as yourself, or any other hard-working, decent, Godfearing American/European/Australian citizen that donates money to charity/volunteer organizations.

This game is going to have much more players than Planetside 1, because it's FREE (as in FREEDOM). All these FREEDOM loving people would be better off and more willing to pay if they could play on lag-free(dom) servers. It's not just about the Euro's or the Aussie's, FREEDOM is for everyone.

The guys gone crazy! We need some FREEDOM fries with that.

[Xyntech]

They actually have some beefy new servers, but the only way to cool them is to have the servers located in Antarctica. All of them.

Everyone gets 500 ping.

[Mechzz]

They actually have some beefy new servers, but the only way to cool them is to have the servers located in Antarctica. All of them.

Everyone gets 500 ping.

you mean....500 pinguins

[fod]

They actually have some beefy new servers, but the only way to cool them is to have the servers located in Antarctica. All of them.

Everyone gets 500 ping.

antarctica is closer to australia than USA is so i would actually prefer this :D

bring on antarctic servers.!

[Xyntech]

you mean....500 pinguins

500 Pingu

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/c/c2/Pingu.png/220px-Pingu.png

[Shade Millith]

Please god no... instant death and dieing behind corners inc. Then again, that style usually favor laggers... Oh well

As far as I can tell, it doesn't favor anyone.

People keep saying "Oh the guy can kill me before I can even see him." But the fact is, it runs BOTH ways.

If you run around the corner and find a higher ping player, you'll shoot him before he can see you.

If a high ping player runs around the corner and finds you, he'll shoot you before you can see him.

All I can say is, "Stop whinging, it's exactly the same for you both."

[SKYeXile]

As far as I can tell, it doesn't favor anyone.

People keep saying "Oh the guy can kill me before I can even see him." But the fact is, it runs BOTH ways.

If you run around the corner and find a higher ping player, you'll shoot him before he can see you.

If a high ping player runs around the corner and finds you, he'll shoot you before you can see him.

All I can say is, "Stop whinging, it's exactly the same for you both."

Yea, no situation ever favours the people with high pings, that just a typical terabad excuse for being bad. all CSHD/SSHP does is make for a more level playing field, its still about as level as cotton candy though.